Donald Trump 2018

[jimmyjazz 45554]

This is no doubt an unusual manifestation of the Stockholm Syndrome, but at this point I'm about 50/50 on whether I want this dolt thrown out of office.  The daily circus is kinda hard to resist.

Unfortunately, he DOES succeed now and again, and it's almost always in a manner that is completely unaligned with my better interests (tax "reform", nuking NK, etc.), so I will grudgingly continue to root for Mueller, but the entertainment value alone is pretty sweet.

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

20 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

 

 

Do we have an update on the number of retweets of that one? I figured by now it would have put the Ellen one to shame.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

12 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Let me know when they reveal how CA kept Hillary out of Philly, Pittsburg, Wayne County and Milwaukee during crunch time

Hey, I admit and accept Hillary lost.  I wish we could talk about the 2016 election without bringing her up. 

I was talking about CA influence on the GOP nomination which they had plenty of activity. 

It's obviously impossible to measure how much influence CA had on altering voter opinions but it's naive to think this wasn't a huge part of the disaster that was the 2016 election. 

[Grade of D as in David 13253]

22 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Um, doesn't he realize that without the Electoral College, he wouldn't be President?

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/26/trump-electoral-college-popular-vote-555148

 

Why is this a surprise? It's his way of saying that he wished he didn't have to actually be President. 

Any of you trumpkins that don't believe he would rather trade his current situation (even with the benefit all of the graft) with that of a blowhard throwing stones from the safety of his own "news network" at Hillary are delusional at best.

[Blotto 23432]

James Poniewozik, TV critic for The New York Times, said he was sure that the Trump interview "was a hit with the actual Fox & Friends audience."

"The way he speaks -- the rants, complaints, grievances -- is basically an EEG of how watching a day of Fox is designed to make the viewer feel. It's like the inner monologue of the show," Poniewozik tweeted.

[DigDug 1649]

39 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

In the interest of topicality, y'all should watch that Trump interview on Fox and Friends.  It's pretty funny.

Listened to the whole thing. Completely unhinged and full of constant bullshit that the Fox people just let him get away with.  So in other words, what else is new.

[Sawbonz 27421]

6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Hey, I admit and accept Hillary lost.  I wish we could talk about the 2016 election without bringing her up. 

I was talking about CA influence on the GOP nomination which they had plenty of activity. 

It's obviously impossible to measure how much influence CA had on altering voter opinions but it's naive to think this wasn't a huge part of the disaster that was the 2016 election. 

Go ahead and start a thread for how CA rigged the republican primary you psycho. Should be fascinating 

[Aqua Buddha 14504]

Lulz at Trump going on Fox and complaining about Tester passing on rumors about Dr. Feelgood.  This coming from the "people are sayin'" guy.

I also laughed when he was ranting about the Justice Department and one of the hosts said "It's YOUR Justice Department."

[Aqua Buddha 14504]

1 minute ago, Blotto said:

James Poniewozik, TV critic for The New York Times, said he was sure that the Trump interview "was a hit with the actual Fox & Friends audience."

"The way he speaks -- the rants, complaints, grievances -- is basically an EEG of how watching a day of Fox is designed to make the viewer feel. It's like the inner monologue of the show," Poniewozik tweeted.

That's accurate.  Fox is basically the White Grievance Channel.

[kevwun 15643]

It's because when he says "People are saying" he's actually giving his opinion.  Same deal when he says a lot of people don't know.  It means he didn't know.

Edited April 26, 2018 by kevwun

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

1 minute ago, Sawbonz said:

Go ahead and start a thread for how CA rigged the republican primary you psycho. Should be fascinating 

Nah, it's still too soon for us to look at this objectively without getting emotional. 

[retread 2951]

 

[staboner 4957]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

The false equivalency and whataboutism between the Dems and the GOP is spectacular to witness. 

I used to be of the belief the parties are the same

Then I graduated to believing the parties operate the same

Now I simply believe that voting for one over the other will not correct our governance in any meaningful way. Translated for me - voting for Democrats across the board (because of the retard Trumpers) may offer short term relief, but it won't help out all in the long run. The cancer is set. 

In summary - yes and maybe some more ways to think about it

[TheFlyingBoat 906]

13 minutes ago, staboner said:

I used to be of the belief the parties are the same

Then I graduated to believing the parties operate the same

Now I simply believe that voting for one over the other will not correct our governance in any meaningful way. Translated for me - voting for Democrats across the board (because of the retard Trumpers) may offer short term relief, but it won't help out all in the long run. The cancer is set. 

In summary - yes and maybe some more ways to think about it

So what is the solution in your mind? 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

9 minutes ago, staboner said:

I used to be of the belief the parties are the same

Then I graduated to believing the parties operate the same

Now I simply believe that voting for one over the other will not correct our governance in any meaningful way. Translated for me - voting for Democrats across the board (because of the retard Trumpers) may offer short term relief, but it won't help out all in the long run. The cancer is set. 

In summary - yes and maybe some more ways to think about it

It all comes down to both parties needing better candidates that are in it for the right reasons.

America’s best and brightest don’t go into politics like they used to because of all the liability and invasion of privacy that comes with it.  They probably feel they can do more good for the world outside of the political swamp.

This has created a vacuum of sorts that bad actors have figured out how to exploit.

Like I said, better candidates in it for better reasons would solve a lot of the problems.

[Brisketexan 104590]

3 minutes ago, TheFlyingBoat said:

So what is the solution in your mind? 

 

AND

 

[WhatTheBuck 28708]

2 hours ago, TornACL said:

Everybody's been so worried about US vs THEM that a lot of people haven't stopped to realize that both parties are corrupt to high heaven and largely full of complete pieces of shit who drown out the voices of the few remaining decent humans in Washington.

Nobody is as corrupt as the modern Republicans. No Republican administration has ever been as corrupt as the  present one. This constant both-sides-ism is complete bullshit. 

[JimmyJames 12271]

Damn. Huxley and Postman were so right. 

Critical thinking skills in a designated class should be taught every year starting in the sixth grade. 

[Michael Knight 12891]

I'm starting to think Trump isn't very smart

Quote

In long rant on 'Fox & Friends,' Trump acknowledges staying overnight in Moscow — alluding to the most salacious allegation in the Steele dossier

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-stayed-overnight-in-moscow-russia-steele-dossier-2018-4

[TornACL 7675]

1 minute ago, Michael Knight said:

I'm starting to think Trump isn't very smart

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-stayed-overnight-in-moscow-russia-steele-dossier-2018-4

I used to always think that this was like the plot of some zany comedy, where Trump decided early in the campaign that he didn't WANT to be president so he just started acting more and more insane and inflammatory and he just keeps zooming up in the polls.

The actual administration is like the less successful sequel where the jokes are now tired and everyone's ready for the franchise to just go away.

[Fozzz 152]

Smart enough to beat some of the greatest political athletes of our time, like Scott Walker and Marco Rubio.  

[Mojo Hand 4580]

51 minutes ago, staboner said:

I used to be of the belief the parties are the same

Then I graduated to believing the parties operate the same

Now I simply believe that voting for one over the other will not correct our governance in any meaningful way. Translated for me - voting for Democrats across the board (because of the retard Trumpers) may offer short term relief, but it won't help out all in the long run. The cancer is set. 

In summary - yes and maybe some more ways to think about it

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried.  We should keep trying to improve our representative democracy, but our government will always be an imperfect compromise between the ideal of self-governance and the reality that we the people make terrible decisions for terrible reasons.   Myself included.

Things do improve over time, but incrementally and not without retrenchment along the way.   Look at civil rights for every minority group over the last 60 years.   Hell, LGBT rights has progressed exponentially over the last decade, more than I ever could have imagined.   That's real change that happened because of who won elections.

Institutions like political parties are rarely the same.   Individually, people are fundamentally the same, which is why you can always point to "both sides!", but in groups they go in different directions.  Right now the Rs are much worse, but that could change.   The way to effect real change is to push institutions in the right direction.   If you're a lib, vote for better Dems and punish bad ones by withholding your vote or going R occasionally.   And the converse on the right.   Over time, that works. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[Tyler Durden 132]

The CYA letters from Trump's attorney would be amazing to read.  Probably not long enough to be a proper book but definitely something you could read on the can while taking a shit.  

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

Unrelated news:

 

Cosby found guilty AF

 

[4th&Five 41459]

 

[staboner 4957]

1 hour ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It all comes down to both parties needing better candidates that are in it for the right reasons.

America’s best and brightest don’t go into politics like they used to because of all the liability and invasion of privacy that comes with it.  They probably feel they can do more good for the world outside of the political swamp.

This has created a vacuum of sorts that bad actors have figured out how to exploit.

Like I said, better candidates in it for better reasons would solve a lot of the problems.

sure. thats easy. how do we make that happen?

[WhatTheBuck 28708]

5 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

No way has Trump ever read the deal. 

[kevwun 15643]

Doesn't matter how many times Mattis reads it.  It was still done during the Obama administration which is the reason Trump hates it.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

10 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

Most of the people who reflexibly oppose it would be struck by how tough it is, if they actually knew what it did.   Not coincidentally, the same people who will cheer any Trump deal with North Korea, even if it includes zero verification of denuclearization.

Also the same people who said the economy was shit and the numbers were fake up until the moment Trump won, at which point the economy was roaring and the numbers real and all attributable to Trump.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[staboner 4957]

1 hour ago, Mojo Hand said:

Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others that have been tried.  We should keep trying to improve our representative democracy, but our government will always be an imperfect compromise between the ideal of self-governance and the reality that we the people make terrible decisions for terrible reasons.   Myself included.

Things do improve over time, but incrementally and not without retrenchment along the way.   Look at civil rights for every minority group over the last 60 years.   Hell, LGBT rights has progressed exponentially over the last decade, more than I ever could have imagined.   That's real change that happened because of who won elections.

Institutions like political parties are rarely the same.   Individually, people are fundamentally the same, which is why you can always point to "both sides!", but in groups they go in different directions.  Right now the Rs are much worse, but that could change.   The way to effect real change is to push institutions in the right direction.   If you're a lib, vote for better Dems and punish bad ones by withholding your vote or going R occasionally.   And the converse on the right.   Over time, that works. 

I would argue LGBT rights should have been here decades ago and because of who won elections it was held back. That was a cultural win in the making for quite a while

Over my time paying attention - the 22 years of being an adult - I have seen decreasing liberty, increasing debt, more human rights infractions, increasing ideological BS, corporatists making things happen, banks wagging the entire government head to toe, the list goes.  I don't see how anyone can say "its working". 

Sure it worked. And its still working for some people. But the data says otherwise in many ways that we as a country are not "working"

We haven't paid for it not working, but its coming. We are hanging onto the lagging indicators right now. 

We definitely need to improve our representative democracy. Thats exactly what I am saying. Change is better than cracks in a system that now has just devils' interests. Any change is good. If this was a business - the manager would look at the input (billions of dollars of manufactured horseshit) and the output (devils running a muck) and change the process, because thats what you do to get a large complex machine trending back to being productive. But for some reason we haven't realized that yet with our government because we haven't endured the pain that its failure has/will get us. Oh sorry, lots are experiencing the pain that their shitty governance has yielded, but that don't post on this board

tl;dr - you are probably in yours 20s and I in my 40s. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by staboner

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

4 minutes ago, staboner said:

sure. thats easy. how do we make that happen?

Trump is making it happen.

 

This doesn’t happen without Trump coming along and inspiring a bunch of concerned citizens to get off their ass and start participating in democracy.

The GOP will have their great awakening too but that will come much later.

[David Dennison 18655]

1 minute ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Trump is making it happen.

 

This doesn’t happen without Trump coming along and inspiring a bunch of concerned citizens to get off their ass and start participating in democracy.

The GOP will have their great awakening too but that will come much later.

The good thing about GOP awakenings is that they come after their members have accepted once progressive positions as norms.

The left always wins.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

3 minutes ago, staboner said:

I would argue LGBT rights should have been here decades ago and because of who won elections it was held back. That was a cultural win in the making for quite a while

Over my time paying attention - the 22 years of being an adult - I have seen decreasing liberty, increasing debt, increasing ideological BS, corporatists making things happen, banks wagging the entire government head to toe, the list goes.  I don't see how anyone can say "it working". 

Sure it worked. And its still working for some people. But the data says otherwise in many ways that we as a country are not "working"

We haven't paid for it not working, but its coming. We are hanging onto the lagging indicators right now. 

We definitely need to improve our representative democracy. Thats exactly what I am saying. Change is better than cracks in a system that now has just devils' interests. Any change is good. If this was a business - the manager would look at the input (billions of dollars of manufactured horseshit) and the output (devils running a muck) and change the process, because thats what you do to get a large complex machine trending back to being productive. But for some reason we haven't realized that yet with our government because we haven't endured the pain that its failure has/will get us. Oh sorry, lots are experiencing the pain that their shitty governance has yielded, but that don't post on this board

tl;dr - you are probably in yours 20s and I in my 40s. 

No, I'm early 40s.   I'm just trying to look past my own life span, and I think there is something to the theories that these things are cyclical in nature.  It's human nature for there to be change and backlash to the change, back and forth.  Our adult years have been the lead up to the backlash, which is where we are now, but I think that has an expiration date, because it always has.   Our country has been in much bigger periods of conflict and turmoil and come through it better.   The Great Depression and WW2.    The Civil War.   The American Revolution.   I don't think this will be any different because I see how the opposition to Trump is galvanizing.   Things won't be perfect, but they'll be better than they were the last cycle.   And the pendulum will swing again back and forth.   (And I acknowledge I'm cribbing some Strauss-Howe generational theory, which I think has some merit, though of course not in any inevitable or mystical sense.).

[Hugo Stiglitz 23356]

I think we are going through a once in a lifetime transformation-type period that few are willing to acknowledge because we’re not in an all out physical war.

 

For me it’s almost like living through World War II which was the most extraordinary time period in human history.  We are currently in an all out war involving a battle of ideas with hostile foreign powers and bad actors, except this war is being waged on the internet and other media outlets.  

 

The consequences of this fight are seeping into our politics and everyday lives with family, friends, and business relationships. It’s gotten so toxic that it makes most  

people want to block it all out and think about other, more pleasant things (like the demise of Texas A&M).  And that’s basically the goal, to demoralize everyone to the point of apathy and inaction (normalization).  

 

We’ve never had to deal with this kind of threat on this scale before so there are no textbooks, no college courses, or experiences to draw from on how best to deal with it.  

 

A few ways I feel I can contribute is to help others learn how to keep themselves more informed, think critically about things, draw their own conclusions, gain some understanding of what is going on, and what it means.

 

I also like having a place to talk through this stuff with other high minded educated assholes from a similar background. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by Hugo Stiglitz

[F250 28681]

8 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

The good thing about GOP awakenings is that they come after their members have accepted once progressive positions as norms.

The left always wins.

That's just the result of the social push/resist process between cons and libs. Traditional conservatism sees it's role as being a resistance to change to allow society to organically evolve rather than radically shift social mores. Its role is to slow down change not permanently stop it. Edmund Burke out front should have told you.

 

[jimmyjazz 45554]

36 minutes ago, kevwun said:

Doesn't matter how many times Mattis reads it.  It was still done during the Obama administration which is the reason Trump hates it.

Mattis himself was less supportive of the deal before he read it cover to cover.  It's nice to know our leaders are so presumptuous.

[Tuco 5076]

4 minutes ago, F250 said:

That's just the result of the social push/resist process between cons and libs. Traditional conservatism sees it's role as being a resistance to change to allow society to organically evolve rather than radically shift social mores. Its role is to slow down change not permanently stop it. Edmund Burke out front should have told you.

 

I don't know what "traditional" conservatism is, but there are plenty of people who identify themselves as conservatives who would prefer to hold off any progress on social evolution indefinitely.  It wasn't the "Defense of Marriage for now" Act.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

Yeah that's just a pretty rationalization.   The change they resist is the organic change.

Edited April 26, 2018 by Mojo Hand

[Fozzz 152]

Just now, Tuco said:

I don't know what "traditional" conservatism is, but there are plenty of people who identify themselves as conservatives who would prefer to hold off any progress on social evolution indefinitely.  It wasn't the "Defense of Marriage for now" Act.

Yeah, I don't think there's any meaningful difference between, say, the terms "reactionary" and "conservative."  

[kevwun 15643]

I would say most of them don't see that as their role, but they eventually die off.  Conservatives serving as brake is a good thing though.  Problems happen when they are being led by morons and crazy people as is the case right now.

[Biff Tannen 45492]

49 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

No way has Trump ever read the deal. 

Correct.  But it was Obama, so must be bad.

[retread 2951]

Pompeo probably puts this in the cartoon folder, aka the PDB

Quote

tl;dr of the deal, Iran says:

 

 

Edited April 26, 2018 by retread

[F250 28681]

14 minutes ago, Tuco said:

I don't know what "traditional" conservatism is, but there are plenty of people who identify themselves as conservatives who would prefer to hold off any progress on social evolution indefinitely.  It wasn't the "Defense of Marriage for now" Act.

It's classical conservatism rooted in Burkean thought that permeates modern American political conservatism. Sure most conservatives don't know this but most modern American liberals know fuck about John Stewart Mill.

Most people don't really understand where their political beliefs originate nor care to know. Does a discussion on Rawls vs Nozick to determine the merits of positive and negative rights sound more interesting than the shit we talk about Here? No, it sounds pretty fucking boring so we fling shit for entertainment.

 

 

[TornACL 7675]

 

38 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

 

I also like having a place to talk through this stuff with other high minded educated assholes from a similar background. 

 

So you chose HERE?  Oh..... HIGH minded.  I get it now.

[High Plains Drifter 10974]

On 4/25/2018 at 1:18 PM, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Kanye is smart, getting in on the cheap Trump attention before it’s like getting in on defending O.J.

 

WTF is "dragon energy"? Does "dragon energy" make you fucking stupid?

Edited April 26, 2018 by High Plains Drifter

[Biff Tannen 45492]

1 minute ago, High Plains Drifter said:

WTF is "dragon energy"? Does "dragon energy" must you fucking stupid?

It does must you fucking stupid.  And I believe it's pronounced DAGRON

[F250 28681]

1 minute ago, High Plains Drifter said:

WTF is "dragon energy"? Does "dragon energy" must you fucking stupid?

It's like "tigers blood". Its the kind of thing mildly retarded bat shit crazy people who inexplicably have a public voice get to say.

 

[High Plains Drifter 10974]

2 hours ago, TornACL said:

I used to always think that this was like the plot of some zany comedy, where Trump decided early in the campaign that he didn't WANT to be president so he just started acting more and more insane and inflammatory and he just keeps zooming up in the polls.

The actual administration is like the less successful sequel where the jokes are now tired and everyone's ready for the franchise to just go away.

Wait until the second sequel, when Trump loses the re-election, refuses to concede, and civil war breaks out. It'll be hilarious! And in 3-D!

[High Plains Drifter 10974]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

It does must you fucking stupid.  And I believe it's pronounced DAGRON

DOH! Edited.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

3 minutes ago, F250 said:

It's classical conservatism rooted in Burkean thought that permeates modern American political conservatism. Sure most conservatives don't know this but most modern American liberals know fuck about John Stewart Mill.

Most people don't really understand where their political beliefs originate nor care to know. Does a discussion on Rawls vs Nozick to determine the merits of positive and negative rights sound more interesting than the shit we talk about Here? No, it sounds pretty fucking boring so we fling shit for entertainment.

 

 

Most people's political beliefs originate in their gut.  And then they use their reason to justify it. Philosophers and political theorists don't have a hell of a lot to do with it.