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Donald Trump 2018

TheFlyingBoat

By TheFlyingBoat
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M12BH
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SInce y'all seem to be my clearinghouse for all things political, let me tell a story.  A couple of them, actually.  Three, if you want to be specific. When I was 14 I went with a family frien

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retread

retread 2951

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

It's bizarre how a possible meeting with no concessions on denuclearization is "Mission Accomplished" for Trump supporters, while an actual non-nuclearization deal with Iran that Trump's own SecDef admits has robust verification is an embarrassing disaster.    2+2=5.

Pompeo signaled today that Trump would likely pull out of the Iran deal

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted (edited)

It depends on what we get for it.   For example, if we struck a deal to declare a formal end to the war and give North Korea full recognition as a nuclear state, that wouldn't be a good thing even though "we ended the war." 

Edited by Mojo Hand
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Chrispy

Chrispy 132

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Vince_McCoy_Williams said:

I can see the headlines now 

Fox News: "Trump finds cure for cancer, humanity rejoices"

MSNBC: "Thousands of oncologists losing employment due to Trump"

CNN: "Here is why a cure for cancer could be a bad thing"

Sadly, that headline would not shock me. 

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Chrispy

Chrispy 132

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

It's been over for over 60 years.

This is all about whether Kim still has nuclear weapons after a treaty is signed. If he does, we got played.

David, the war is over. Take a few minutes to enjoy some positive news my man. 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 106899

Posted
Posted
Just now, Chrispy said:

This is good news Brisket, enjoy it. Once the terms are finalized, then let the tirades commence. 

I agree.

But I also like to play chess.  I have a habit of looking several moves ahead.  I don't like the way this board looks.  

But maybe I'm wrong.  I'd sure like to be wrong on this one.

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Chrispy

Chrispy 132

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I agree.

But I also like to play chess.  I have a habit of looking several moves ahead.  I don't like the way this board looks.  

But maybe I'm wrong.  I'd sure like to be wrong on this one.

That’s all I’m saying, very reasonable take. Wish I had a damn upvote. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19542

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Chrispy said:

C’mon David, life can’t be that damn miserable can it? 

Look, everything that's going on now has happened before. All of it. It eventually falls apart. 

Let it play out. If it ends up with a denuclearized North Korea, then you should be happy. Until then, it's just rhetoric.

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Vince_McCoy_Williams

Vince_McCoy_Williams 98

Posted
Posted
Just now, David Dennison said:

Look, everything that's going on now has happened before. All of it. It eventually falls apart. 

Let it play out. If it ends up with a denuclearized North Korea, then you should be happy. Until then, it's just rhetoric.

I guess I missed the part where a Kim leader has crossed into South Korea in all those past instances. (Last time it happened was in 1953)

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19542

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Vince_McCoy_Williams said:

I guess I missed the part where a Kim leader has crossed into South Korea in all those past instances. (Last time it happened was in 1953)

Yeah, but they've met plenty of times before. It always falls apart.

Let us know when the nukes are gone.

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Chrispy

Chrispy 132

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Vince_McCoy_Williams said:

I guess I missed the part where a Kim leader has crossed into South Korea in all those past instances. (Last time it happened was in 1953)

Agreed, today was more than rhetoric. I much prefer to be optimistic and hopeful, no need to automatically assume the worst. 

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Vince_McCoy_Williams said:

I guess I missed the part where a Kim leader has crossed into South Korea in all those past instances. (Last time it happened was in 1953)

Good point.  It's also the first time NK's leader entered talks with that exact haircut.  Totally unprecedented. 

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Vince_McCoy_Williams said:

If you think that a powerful gesture like crossing into South Korea is akin to the triviality of a haircut, then you are the foolish one. 

No, crossing over is akin to previous "powerful gestures" that accompanied previous promises to denuclearize that never materialized.  Never mind that —let's all celebrate.  North Korea is giving up their nukes! 

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Pods

Pods 7637

Posted
Posted
Just now, Chad Fuck said:

North Korean negotiation strategy for 70 years.  We haven't even got anything yet and the Trumpkins are already sucking each others dicks.  

giphy.gif

They might as well. They are incels, so no one else is going to suck it.  

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4580

Posted
Posted
Just now, Chad Fuck said:

North Korean negotiation strategy for 70 years.  We haven't even got anything yet and the Trumpkins are already sucking each others dicks.  

giphy.gif

Literally the only thing they care about is having something to point to and take credit for.  Doesn't matter if it's a bad deal.  They'll hype it up as the greatest thing ever.  That's why the only thing Trump and his supporters are talking about is credit.  Not the strategic options; just that Trump gets credit.  

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 47201

Posted
Posted

For fuck's sake we didn't even have a Secretary of State until yesterday.  This "historic" meeting between Rocket Man and the SK President wasn't some masterfully executed long game on our part.  It's not unreasonable to expect little to come of it.

If NK de-nukes, I'll be thrilled and quite happy to give credit where it is due.

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JimmyJames

JimmyJames 12271

Posted
Posted

1. The norks aren’t giving up their nuke program.

2. Trump is a dumbass but can’t be blamed for Korea as we’ve been poorly playing a bad hand for 70 years so it’s not like dumbass trump coming along was gonna fix that.

3. Trumps instability has made north and South Korea nervous as well as China. So I guess maybe this latest meeting’s credit should partially be given trump credit for being an unstable imbecile.

4. In the long run maybe less US in Korea is a good thing. I’m not enough of a military expert to make that call. 

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Vince_McCoy_Williams

Vince_McCoy_Williams 98

Posted
Posted

A psychologist could write an entire thesis on Trump Derangement Syndrome with the insane levels of denial and goalpost moving in this thread. You think the guy is so fucking stupid and dumb that anything good that happens is completely out of happenstance. Welcome to the real world, where the driver of the bus gets the credit; just like Bush with the stock crash and Obama with the Bin Laden kill. It is time to admit that something good has taken place today and could be the foundation for a long-lasting peace between two bitter countries. It is a move in the right direction and those that think otherwise are being intellectually dishonest. 

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David Dennison

David Dennison 19542

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Vince_McCoy_Williams said:

A psychologist could write an entire thesis on Trump Derangement Syndrome with the insane levels of denial and goalpost moving in this thread. You think the guy is so fucking stupid and dumb that anything good that happens is completely out of happenstance. Welcome to the real world, where the driver of the bus gets the credit; just like Bush with the stock crash and Obama with the Bin Laden kill. It is time to admit that something good has taken place today and could be the foundation for a long-lasting peace between two bitter countries. It is a move in the right direction and those that think otherwise are being intellectually dishonest. 

It sounds a lot like Obama Derangement Syndrome.

See: Iran.

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hobbes2702

hobbes2702 13477

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Vince_McCoy_Williams said:

A psychologist could write an entire thesis on Trump Derangement Syndrome with the insane levels of denial and goalpost moving in this thread. You think the guy is so fucking stupid and dumb that anything good that happens is completely out of happenstance. Welcome to the real world, where the driver of the bus gets the credit; just like Bush with the stock crash and Obama with the Bin Laden kill. It is time to admit that something good has taken place today and could be the foundation for a long-lasting peace between two bitter countries. It is a move in the right direction and those that think otherwise are being intellectually dishonest. 

The lack of self awareness here is utterly staggering 

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 18135

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

The lack of self awareness here is utterly staggering 

It's not just self awareness.  It's awareness of history.

Let's say all of a sudden tomorrow the boy genius Jared has a photo op with Netanyahu and the leaders of Hamas or Saudi Arabia.  Are we all going to say, "Well, I guess that's peace in the Middle East then."

Fuck no.  Those people been at each other's throats for just a couple years longer than NK and SK.  Anyone with any sense would approach with at least a touch of optimistic skepticism.  

GTFO with spiking the damn football because Lil Kim shook some hands. 

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Vince_McCoy_Williams

Vince_McCoy_Williams 98

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Chad Fuck said:

It's not just self awareness.  It's awareness of history.

Let's say all of a sudden tomorrow the boy genius Jared has a photo op with Netanyahu and the leaders of Hamas or Saudi Arabia.  Are we all going to say, "Well, I guess that's peace in the Middle East then."

Fuck no.  Those people been at each other's throats for just a couple years longer than NK and SK.  Anyone with any sense would approach with at least a touch of optimistic skepticism.  

GTFO with spiking the damn football because Lil Kim shook some hands. 

I didnt celebrate that North Korea is denuclearized, I am celebrating an end to a war and renewed diplomacy between North and South Korea. I definitely think it is something to celebrate. Im sorry you dont see it that way, the Koreans sure do. 

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Caracara

Caracara 41

Posted
Posted

kim jong un is a genius, and only 36 years old.  Dude hacked Sony Pictures. Total honeybadger  He's playing everybody.  His advisors and generals are much smarter than our goofy generals.  Who cares about korea anyway.  F potus. Let's send pallets of cash to Iran. The donald hates that shit.

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Chad Fuck

Chad Fuck 18135

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Vince_McCoy_Williams said:

I didnt celebrate that North Korea is denuclearized, I am celebrating an end to a war and renewed diplomacy between North and South Korea. I definitely think it is something to celebrate. Im sorry you dont see it that way, the Koreans sure do. 

Did the war end?  Because all I've heard about it talk that they'd like to end it.  That's a handful of empty air so far, which is exactly the point I'm making.  You're already said the war is over and it isn't. 

Renewed diplomacy, great.  Let's hope that keeps going.

Once again, you outstepped your coverage on that last bit though.  I don't think you can speak for how the Koreans feel (assuming you're not Korean - because, well, if you were you probably wouldn't be talking so much bullshit and even if you are, I doubt you speak for all of them).  Since they're the ones living underneath the threat of nuclear holocaust, and probably have a better sense of their own history than you, I'd wager they have a healthy sense of skepticism.  

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RayDog

RayDog 682

Posted
Posted

It is important to keep in mind that North Korea suspended nuclear testing because their test site was destroyed. The destruction of the test site is the reason Kim changed tactics and decided he could now negotiate with one of the terms being that they would suspend nuclear testing since they already had to.

It was the destruction of the test site that led to a change in Kim's tactics not a Trump tweet.

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WhatTheBuck

WhatTheBuck 28930

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, RayDog said:

It is important to keep in mind that North Korea suspended nuclear testing because their test site was destroyed. The destruction of the test site is the reason Kim changed tactics and decided he could now negotiate with one of the terms being that they would suspend nuclear testing since they already had to.

It was the destruction of the test site that led to a change in Kim's tactics not a Trump tweet.

Source?

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RayDog

RayDog 682

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

Source?

Lazy

https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2018/04/26/this-could-be-the-real-reason-why-north-korea-stopped-its-nuclear-missile-tests/#16a2ac7364c2

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2143171/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-and-may-be-why-kim-jong-un

Edited by RayDog
add earlier link
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staboner

staboner 5084

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Maybe I'm short sighted, but I've wanted us out of Korea for a long time.

China will inevitably grow in power, I don't think an American Army on the Asian mainland will do much to stop that. Plus, it's expensive to maintain that presence. 

I honestly don't know how much Trump has to do with this beyond allowing the leaders of the north and south agree that the current leader of the US is crazy, stupid and dangerous. It's not really a policy, but if it gets us out of Korea and the Koreans further from war and closer to a better relationship then rah-rah Trump.

i think you are spot on.

supporting a standing conventional army in SK is a waste of money and time. The future of war is guys sitting behind computers. Great chance to trim the fat and continue to re-position of military accordingly. 

Let them continue to be China's refugee crisis. Let China sink in resources to help get them out of the Bronze Age. 

War with SK? SK is vital in global trade. I don't see China thinking (at least now) a war with SK (with China on watch over NK) is a good thing at all

Edited by staboner
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