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The Lance 30 for 30

Beau Vine

By Beau Vine
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Bama Chick

Bama Chick 28596

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Thanks for posting this - watching now.

(The “fuck you”s in that GIF are him quoting what a stranger said to him btw).

And I don’t know if it’s not being from Texas or not being a guy but I don’t hate him as much as most everyone here.

He doesn’t seem to be that much more of a douche than most high level athletes.

He still looks good. Still full of himself.

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4th&Five

4th&Five 41557

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8 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

Thanks for posting this - watching now.

(The “fuck you”s in that GIF are him quoting what a stranger said to him btw).

And I don’t know if it’s not being from Texas or not being a guy but I don’t hate him as much as most everyone here.

He doesn’t seem to be that much more of a douche than most high level athletes.

He still looks good. Still full of himself.

Living in Austin and hearing things for the last 25 years is definitely a factor. I’ve seen him out at concerts a few times and it’s just obvious that he’s a prick. 

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Kermit

Kermit 3156

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5 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

He’s a douche, but more so the biggest cunt on the planet. And he’s not an athlete. He’s a cyclist. That cheated his nut off and ruined people’s lives in the process. He’s a waste of shit and nobody should watch his documentary. 

If I were to watch it, how do I know that I’m watching people be truthful? These guys have lied their asses off their entire lives, and have buried people to protect the lies. Now I’m supposed to believe you? Fuck you Lance. Just go away. I almost forgot you ever existed.

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Revolution512

Revolution512 1487

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You’ll find that the people who wanted to believe he was clean feel burned the most. Austin invested in him, UT adopted him. That bothers a lot of people.

To those who knew he was dirty long before cancer, this isn’t a big deal. At the end of the day, it’s bike riding.

Edited by Revolution512
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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 12981

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It's not that he cheated it's that he tried to destroy anyone who might expose him and when caught denied and acted like a cunt to everyone until the evidence was overwhelming. All he had to do was admit wrongdoing and apologize and everyone would forgive him and still love him

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HornOnTheBayou

HornOnTheBayou 8931

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18 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

It's not that he cheated it's that he tried to destroy anyone who might expose him and when caught denied and acted like a cunt to everyone until the evidence was overwhelming. All he had to do was admit wrongdoing and apologize and everyone would forgive him and still love him

This

30 minutes ago, Revolution512 said:

You’ll find that the people who wanted to believe he was clean feel burned the most. Austin invested in him, UT adopted him. That bothers a lot of people.

To those who knew he was dirty long before cancer, this isn’t a big deal. At the end of the day, it’s bike riding.

And definitely this

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Michael Knight

Michael Knight 12981

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Admit wrongdoing at what point?  I don’t think there’s any scenario where he is loved at this point. If he was much more contrite and sincere after winning all those TdFs, he still would’ve ruined multiple people’s lives. He’d be perceived as less of a cunt but still a guy that cheated to win all he had and ruined people’s lives. If he admitted wrongdoing prior to winning all those races, he wouldn’t get to celebrated status. 

He’s a cheater, which is only his third worst problem. His second worst is he ruined Livestrong. The worst is he literally ruined people’s lives. I don’t think there’s any scenario where he admits to wrongdoing at any point to avoid at least some of the above. He won’t be loved. I’m shocked he agreed to do a 30 for 30. The sooner the public forgets about him the better for him and us. But narcissists don’t work that way. 

No one would care about the cheating because frankly that's all cycling is. Its how he cheated and what he did to protect his image that's bad. If all he had done was cheat and win no one would care like they don't care about the TdF now.

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Wiler77

Wiler77 1566

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1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

And he’s not an athlete. He’s a cyclist. 

Everything else you wrote is spot on.  But this is just fucking stupid.  Makes your opinion on the subject feel a little hollow since it's clear you have an ax to grind.

And I'm not a cyclist btw.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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I admit it was fun as hell watching him back in his heyday (mostly because I don't like the French).  After all the shit though, I was agnostic on him.  Yeah, he cheated but hey---isn't the point of his sport to see how fast we can send humans on bicycles up and down mountains (plus half the teams were doping at the point).  But as many of you have said, it was the way in which he defended himself, obliterating people in the process with no remorse...that did not sit well with me.  Then a few years later, he managed to keep a low profile and he did raise all the money for cancer which sprints through my family.  So it was all kind of a wash to me.  

But the other day on 2244, he blew through a stoplight on his bike and almost caused a t-bone collision, so fuck him!  The fucking arrogance.  Dr Beeper brings up a good point, we shouldn't watch because he still craves attention, but like the car accidents he almost causes while training for what, I have no idea, many of us still can't look away.  I dunno, I suppose I'll wait and see what the early reviews from surly are.  But yeah, he does better when he just sort of hangs back and stops inviting lawsuits from previous sponsors.  

 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54231

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23 minutes ago, Wiler77 said:

Everything else you wrote is spot on.  But this is just fucking stupid.  Makes your opinion on the subject feel a little hollow since it's clear you have an ax to grind.

And I'm not a cyclist btw.

Maybe Beeper played a real sport instead of just exercising in traffic?

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youdunnf'dup

youdunnf'dup 2147

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2 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

It's not that he cheated it's that he tried to destroy anyone who might expose him and when caught denied and acted like a cunt to everyone until the evidence was overwhelming. All he had to do was admit wrongdoing and apologize and everyone would forgive him and still love him

I don’t even think he needed to phrase it as wrongdoing. Even if he said “everyone was doing it and I still think I was better, but I definitely took steroids. Yeah, obviously. I’m sorry for anyone I may have embarrassed” that would’ve been fine IMO. It’s the fact that he would literally try to ruin anyone’s career because...they were telling the truth. 

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Knoxtnhorn

Knoxtnhorn 5976

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1 hour ago, Dr. Beeper said:

A bit of hyperbole. I don’t view cyclists and marathoners as great athletes. I view them as great cyclists and marathoners. Yeah, it takes great dedication and work to a craft, but comparing these athletes to Big 4 sports guys or tennis or soccer players in terms of athleticism is a joke. He’s not a “high level athlete”. That’s reserved for NBA stars, NFL receivers/DBs/TEs/DEs/LBers/some QBs, and a number of baseball and hockey players. He was a cheating former high level cyclist. There is a huge difference. 

Lulz.  The guy that ran a sub 2 hour marathon is not as good an athlete as NBA players.  The guy that bikes 6-7 hours a day for almost a month in the TDF, Giro, or Vuelta is not as good an athlete as an NFL QB or TE.   

Honest question.  Do you think Jesse Owens was a high-level athlete?  Michael Phelps?  Roger Bannister?  Just being able to catch a ball or make a shot does not elevate one's athleticism that much.

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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5 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Pretty much this. Plus it’s cycling. He set his “sport” back a generation, maybe more.  He needs to go away, permanently, and nobody needs to watch that shit. I have no idea why people want to watch someone they hate. 

He didn't set his sport back. They all did. Doping and cycling are like peanut butter and jelly, and always have been

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89675

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5 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Pretty much this. Plus it’s cycling. He set his “sport” back a generation, maybe more.  He needs to go away, permanently, and nobody needs to watch that shit. I have no idea why people want to watch someone they hate. 

They all set their sport back - if he hadn't won those TDF's, then somebody else who was juicing would have.  It's just that many of them came clean/paid a high price, and didn't try and bury those who could expose them.

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atomheartbevo

atomheartbevo 89675

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4 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

 I’m shocked he agreed to do a 30 for 30. The sooner the public forgets about him the better for him and us. But narcissists don’t work that way. 

For those who don't understand why narcissists are more than happy to go on TV and talk about themselves and what they do, no matter how bad it makes them look, I have a show for you.  It involves an Okie transplant from North Texas, who likes tigers, younger guys, and guns.  

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Just now, atomheartbevo said:

For those who don't understand why narcissists are more than happy to go on TV and talk about themselves and what they do, no matter how bad it makes them look, I have a show for you.  It involves an Okie transplant from North Texas, who likes tigers, younger guys, and guns.  

Larry the Cable guy?  

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Helobious

Helobious 9454

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2 hours ago, Knoxtnhorn said:

Lulz.  The guy that ran a sub 2 hour marathon is not as good an athlete as NBA players.  The guy that bikes 6-7 hours a day for almost a month in the TDF, Giro, or Vuelta is not as good an athlete as an NFL QB or TE.   

Honest question.  Do you think Jesse Owens was a high-level athlete?  Michael Phelps?  Roger Bannister?  Just being able to catch a ball or make a shot does not elevate one's athleticism that much.

Do you really think a 5’8 130 lb guy that can run for a very long time is a much better athlete than a 6’0 225 lb RB that can put up 20 bench reps at the combine, run a 4.4 40 and has a vertical in the mid 30s? 

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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14 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Lance is easily the most visible of that sport, ever. He set it back more than the rest of that era and the era before him combined. 

He didn't start the doping in the sport. It was already rampant. That was my only point

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immortal13

immortal13 4059

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1 minute ago, Dr. Beeper said:

I don’t disagree. But he also won 7 TdFs while doping and simultaneously deriding any criticism that he was. That it started before him and was rampant matters only insofar as it’s a dirty sport. Armstrong is the poster child for that because of his wins and adamant denials. Nobody comes close. 

You're making my point. It was already a dirty sport. He isn't responsible for "setting it back". Exposing it might be a better way to put it, even it that was not his goal

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37794

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37 minutes ago, Helobious said:

Do you really think a 5’8 130 lb guy that can run for a very long time is a much better athlete than a 6’0 225 lb RB that can put up 20 bench reps at the combine, run a 4.4 40 and has a vertical in the mid 30s? 

One guy has better natural physical gifts than the other.

They both have to work their asses off to reach the pinnacle of their respective sports.

The marathoner can't duplicate your athlete's bench press, but your athlete can't finish a marathon in under 4 hours, much less 2.

Fun fact: there's more than one type of athleticism.

 

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TexArcher

TexArcher 37794

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8 minutes ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Athleticism is using that God given talent and honing it to do something ELSE special against an opponent trying to stop you.

So you're not an athlete if no one is trying to stop you?

That's fucking absurd.

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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I think a Decathlete requires tremendous athleticism.  Like ten athleticisms!

But nobody tried to stop Bruce Jenner, so he’s not an athlete?   Well actually, Caitlyn tried to stop him.  Heartless Wench!

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wild_turkey

wild_turkey 3159

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This discussion on what constitutes an athlete is absurd. You can be uninterested in cycling or marathoning and still understand that cyclists and distance runners are athletes. I’m not interested in hockey but of course hockey players are athletes.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/athlete

Definition of athlete
1 : a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina
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52-80

52-80 19161

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i drove 4000km over 4 days and i was pooped.  cant imagine covering that distance on a bicycle. 

 

1 day of riding, 200km, ascending 4 mountains, each about 15km long at 7% gradient.... then do about 20 of those days in succession.  i think it is the most grueling athletic feat today

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Native Horn

Native Horn 3504

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9 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Lulz. No, running a sub 2 hour marathon or bikes competitively is nowhere near the level of athlete as an NBA All Star, the NFL player positions I listed, or certain baseball players. Not even close. Of the guys you cited?  Owens?  Hell yeah, one of the best athletes in his day. Phelps and Bannister?  Lulz. No. 

Point of clarification, the world record for the marathon is 2:01:39.  Armstrong did go 2:46 however.

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Deej

Deej 76799

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2 hours ago, 52-80 said:

i drove 4000km over 4 days and i was pooped.  cant imagine covering that distance on a bicycle. 

 

1 day of riding, 200km, ascending 4 mountains, each about 15km long at 7% gradient.... then do about 20 of those days in succession.  i think it is the most grueling athletic feat today

Imagine doing it without all the PED’s. 

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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Mountains are athletes?  Let me guess...only the darker ones?  I kid, I kid. 

There are some aquatic events that I can see the argument, are not based on true athleticism.  The 1650 in swimming.  Most of that is body type and training.  Not really coordination or raw athleticism.  Likewise the 50 isn't the most athletic event in the world.  But take a guy like Phelps that can sprint, middle, long distance, and the other three strokes at almost any pace.  That requires much more than his body type and training, to be able to transition like between strokes and distances does take a serious dose of athleticism.  Nobody really trying to stop Phelps except the guy in lane 5 hoping to create enough drag at the start of the race to keep Phelps in check before the first wall.   

Water Polo, while typically rostered by one Southern European after another, requires a rare combination of skill sets.  You have to be able to start swimming at ~100m type speed on a dime, dribble the ball, throw the ball with short-stop like precision, all while having guys well over 6'/well over 200# wrestle the shit out of you, and then once your ball is rebounded by a guy with another skill set, you have to tread water while you "rest" up for the next play, with the big guy still trying to drown you and fuck up your kick under water.  then it's swimming again at ~100m type speed to go play defense.  That's not raw athleticism, but it's a very rare skill set.  Fast swimmers aren't typically great at water polo.  Guys with great throwing arms are a dime a dozen.  Guys that can greco-roman wrestle while treading water are rare.  But find a guy that do all that and handle a ball equally well with both hands, and you can play elite water polo.  It's so much tougher than it looks on TV because of the underwater fighting.  

And finally, diving.  That's absolutely a combination of insane coordination, strength, agility, and training.  Any NBA player can make those same movements, but they can't necessarily do them while falling from 30' in the air.  And there is obviously nobody trying to stop you in diving, in fact the natatorium usually goes dead quiet as a matter of course.  

Anyway, as surly does---this thread took a turn (not my fault, for once-ha).  But bullshit aside, it's an interesting conversation.  I think there are also a number of positions and/or events/sports that I think are overrated in terms of how much coordination/athleticism they require.  We're listing those we feel are much about athleticism, but what about those that are overrated?  I'm looking at you archery, equestrian, and weightlifting.  

But yeah, back to the same berated point on Lance.  Look at the complete assholes we forgive in society every damn year.  People who did much worse shit than Lance.  For fuck's sakes, Mike Tyson (a great athlete BTW), beat the living shit out of women, but got back in the ring and won his way back to near the top of his sport (some ears, but no PEDs).  He repackaged himself, played nice, and now he's in movies and broadway shows.  I think Lance keeps striking out, despite all the help for cancer, because he keeps acting like a fucking asshole, and thinking the world still somehow needs him.  I'm sure he has something left to offer, but his fucking drama is just not worth it to anybody.  But he's one helluva of a one-nutted drugged-up athlete. 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 54231

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12 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Didn’t watch that either (but a lot of my buddies and my wife watched the whole thing). I just have a problem watching trash or sociopath frauds when there’s too much other good content to watch.

Shit, I unfortunately haven't run into that problem lately.

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'stache

'stache 21816

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12 hours ago, Dr. Beeper said:

Nope. There’s training for something because of your body size or skill in an athletically-limited endeavor, and there’s athleticism. Marathoners, cyclists, marksman, bass anglers, pole vaulters, swimmers, bobsledders, curlers, bull riders, sumo wrestlers, hot dog eating champs - these are all in the same category relative to world class athletes in most teams sports and certain other individual sports.  

Athleticism is using that God given talent and honing it to do something ELSE special against an opponent trying to stop you. The other endeavors involve training your body and mind to do something in a race.  They all work their asses off; this does not mean they’re equal athletically. 

Comparing cycling and marathon running to bass fishing is literally one of the stupidest things I've ever read, and I've had the internets for a long time.

8 hours ago, longhornmatt said:

When I think of athletic achievements that any Joe Schmoe could accomplish if they just put their minds to it and had more time to practice, running a 2 hour marathon is definitely first on that list.   If my job didn't get in the way, I could totally do that - maybe even twice a day.

I assume you mean 2 hours as in 2:59 counts. If so, yeah its possible for an amateur, but you'd still be at the very high end of marathon runners, and it's not something "any Joe Schmoe" can do. And even if you could break 3 hours, you could never reach the elite who can marathon regularly at 2:10. There are plenty of people who can play basketball or baseball really well, but only a very limited few have the natural abilities to be a professional. Same with cycling and running. I have completed a few 100 mile cycling fondos. I am average and can complete the task, just as most people can train and finish a marathon. The difference is how fast it can be accomplished. To say the elite runners and cylcists are not "athletes" is just fucking stupid. It's also outright wrong by any definition of athletics.

I'm seriously confused by these comments. Do you just hate cyclists for daring to use the same roads as you? I know that is a common sentiment, so I guess I can at least comprehend if you hate cyclists. But to say the elite aren't athletes is just dumbfounding. 

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