Black people arrested for sitting in a Starbucks

[fattyflattie 4638]

52 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Goes without saying

Not chocolate ones tho. 

[Thatguy 8881]

1 hour ago, Mole said:

I might be part of "you guys", but I agree that this incident seems pretty clearly racially motivated, barring this not being a viral marketing campaign for the Cinnamon Dolce Latte of course. 

I got drawn offsides by the "myth of the absent black father" and bad data. I just stuck around for the wild accusations of racism and the retreat into condescending white fragility claims.

 

     I think people's idea of racism is flawed. Let's visit the definition.

Definition of racism

1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 a : a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles

b : a political or social system founded on racism

 

   Racism can be subtle. It doesn't have to be as bold as calling someone the N word. It can be displayed in feeling like you need to call the police because two blacks guys are sitting in your coffee shop. It can be the police feeling like they need to bring 1/2 the police force to address two guys sitting in the coffee shop. It can be clutching your purse and crossing the street when you see me walking down the street, and not doing the same when a white guy walks past you. It can be saying that black fathers need to try and stay in their family's home when you have no idea whether they do or don't, and just are assuming the bolded above. It can be assuming there aren't enough qualified black applicants for big law. Meanwhile you assume every black guy you interview got their ticket punched by affirmative action. If you go into an interview looking for reasons not to hire someone you will find them, which is what Cat posted the study to show the rest of you.

 

   I told you the road is narrow for black people. Pick up a real estate book and look at what color the real estate agent is for the high dollar homes. Go into any corporate business and ask to see the manager. Watch the NFL draft and listen to the description of the quarterbacks. Look at the coaches. Look at your own offices. Ask yourselves why. All around us subtle, subconscious racism happens everyday. Most of it is a perceived superiority of intellect(Johnny Sack falls into this category). Some of it is feeling as though your people have a superior moral fiber(Chrispy falls into this category). A lot of it is ruining the lives of young blacks in an arrest or courtroom and then turning around and taking Chad home to his dad or giving him a "get your life together" slap on the wrist for the exact same crime. One day some dude named Tyrone will be able to sell mansions to the elite without them feeling like he was out of place. One day there will be a majority of black football coaches. Until then quit saying that blacks have the same opportunities as whites because it's absolutely not true. We don't get the most important thing, and that is "The Benefit of the Doubt".

[joe dillon 11]

4 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Heading to my local KKK meeting now. 

u da man

 

[HenryJames 66186]

 

[David Dennison 18950]

1 minute ago, HenryJames said:

 

First big law and now Harvard.

Wypipo don't stand a chance.

[bad_teammate 13225]

George Clayton didn't get into Harvard because of a black man taking his spot for quotas. It's very sad.

[fattyflattie 4638]

That guy,

Using your definitions, 2 a and b in particular, do you feel the fact that I can't reasonably attend PVAM or TSU racist?  And I don't mean technically - lets not be obtuse - I mean without making a spectacle of the whole thing? NAACP membership? Any of that racist? 

[David Dennison 18950]

14 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

That guy,

Using your definitions, 2 a and b in particular, do you feel the fact that I can't reasonably attend PVAM or TSU racist?  And I don't mean technically - lets not be obtuse - I mean without making a spectacle of the whole thing? NAACP membership? Any of that racist? 

Lolwut?

[Bama Chick 28596]

Nice post, Thatguy.  

[kopp0e 1135]

 

Just going to leave this here, sometimes out of adversity an epiphany can occur (in which one chooses to better themselves, as opposed to being a "cog in the system")...

[kopp0e 1135]

1 hour ago, HenryJames said:

 

As a person who has dealt with similar questions asked of me when working at (shall not be named company of oilfield parts), sometimes it's best to just shrug off the question...

It's Ironic when you really think about race on a global scale, as what is the majority in America (now), is in fact the minority in total global population, so I can see where some would be "very protective" of their cultures & history... I'm not saying I agree with any particular stance mind you, but I can see the mechanisms at play that foster racism...

[Catdaddyhorn 3447]

That guy,
Using your definitions, 2 a and b in particular, do you feel the fact that I can't reasonably attend PVAM or TSU racist?  And I don't mean technically - lets not be obtuse - I mean without making a spectacle of the whole thing? NAACP membership? Any of that racist? 

Do you really think that only black people are allowed into TSU and Prairie View? Are you really that ignorant?

[Catdaddyhorn 3447]

 

The irony of this old motherfucker who got federally backed loans, the ability to live where he wanted and an assortment of other things that this kid's Dad, Grandfather, a3bd other relatives couldn't as a matter of government fiat asking him if he got in on merit. Fuckoff fucker.

[Mole 4333]

The quote feature on this site crashes.

@Thatguy

Quote

 

It can be saying that black fathers need to try and stay in their family's home when you have no idea whether they do or don't, and just are assuming the bolded above.

 

 

As to the point about fathers, if statistically black fathers are less likely to be involved in their children's lives, are we allowed to discuss that? How about if someone declares it a myth based on irrelevant data? These aren't assumptions, but wrestling with statistics. Either they are or aren't more or less likely to be involved. Discussing such a thing doesn't have to mean anything related to innate superiority/inferiority; it's just a discussion of the current reality. There are many possible causes, some institutional, some cultural, none of which have anything to do moral capabilities. Based on the data discussed in this thread, it seems likely that black fathers are less likely to be involved with their children. That's no assumption or statement superiority or any individual situations, just my reading of information. It also seems like a significant drag on progress. I'd be happy to be shown to be wrong, but it isn't a question of whether or not we like the information.

Quote

 

It can be assuming there aren't enough qualified black applicants for big law.

 

 

This is another one that should be an issue of facts. There are or aren't many black candidates who meet the qualifications. Stating this isn't racism and implies no superiority, just the present situation. It also is somewhat separate from the reasons why there might be limited candidates. The why (which probably has many reasons, but mostly racism related) is a different issue than the present condition.

Quote

 

Until then quit saying that blacks have the same opportunities as whites because it's absolutely not true.

 

 

I certainly never said that. This is the problem with the casual use of the word racism. I agree with pretty much every word you posted concerning the conditions that you and others have faced. I have no disagreement with the studies about names and job opportunities, etc. I am hoping for a day when these issues are gone. I would bet many of the so-called racists on this thread would agree. We're so quick to brand someone who sees things from a different perspective a racist, that we're left talking with a caricature. 

The answer to the ugly identity politics of racism isn't an equal and opposite set of identity politics. When we brand things as racism that are merely debates about factual situations, we're engaging in these identity politics. If we won't deal with reality because of fear-based identity politics, we're hurting progress.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Mole

[Thatguy 8881]

4 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

That guy,

Using your definitions, 2 a and b in particular, do you feel the fact that I can't reasonably attend PVAM or TSU racist?  And I don't mean technically - lets not be obtuse - I mean without making a spectacle of the whole thing? NAACP membership? Any of that racist? 

Hbcu's are handing out full scholarships to white people to promote diversity. Have been for decades. Didn't know you didn't know that. 

[bad_teammate 13225]

49 minutes ago, Mole said:

As to the point about fathers, if statistically black fathers are less likely to be involved in their children's lives, are we allowed to discuss that?

What is it with you guys and your victimhood complexes?

Quote

This is another one that should be an issue of facts. There are or aren't many black candidates who meet the qualifications. Stating this isn't racism and implies no superiority, just the present situation. It also is somewhat separate from the reasons why there might be limited candidates. 

What does the word "assuming" mean in his post? Are you deliberately misreading him?

[Thatguy 8881]

56 minutes ago, Mole said:

The quote feature on this site crashes.

@Thatguy

As to the point about fathers, if statistically black fathers are less likely to be involved in their children's lives, are we allowed to discuss that? How about if someone declares it a myth based on irrelevant data? These aren't assumptions, but wrestling with statistics. Either they are or aren't more or less likely to be involved. Discussing such a thing doesn't have to mean anything related to innate superiority/inferiority; it's just a discussion of the current reality. There are many possible causes, some institutional, some cultural, none of which have anything to do moral capabilities. Based on the data discussed in this thread, it seems likely that black fathers are less likely to be involved with their children. That's no assumption or statement superiority or any individual situations, just my reading of information. It also seems like a significant drag on progress. I'd be happy to be shown to be wrong, but it isn't a question of whether or not we like the information.

This is another one that should be an issue of facts. There are or aren't many black candidates who meet the qualifications. Stating this isn't racism and implies no superiority, just the present situation. It also is somewhat separate from the reasons why there might be limited candidates. The why (which probably has many reasons, but mostly racism related) is a different issue than the present condition.

I certainly never said that. This is the problem with the casual use of the word racism. I agree with pretty much every word you posted concerning the conditions that you and others have faced. I have no disagreement with the studies about names and job opportunities, etc. I am hoping for a day when these issues are gone. I would bet many of the so-called racists on this thread would agree. We're so quick to brand someone who sees things from a different perspective a racist, that we're left talking with a caricature. 

The answer to the ugly identity politics of racism isn't an equal and opposite set of identity politics. When we brand things as racism that are merely debates about factual situations, we're engaging in these identity politics. If we won't deal with reality because of fear-based identity politics, we're hurting progress.

Let me address the points one by one.

 

1) Chrispy said that black father's needed to try and stay in their kid's homes. A statement like that implies they aren't trying. That is completely different than discussing statistics, or the why's it may be happening. Hopefully you understand the difference. The discussion of data is not racist. The implication that black father's aren't trying is. If you are not guilty of that then you are free and clear. Discuss the data all you want.

 

2) The second point about BigLaw was an assumption on Johnny Sack's part. Once again, if you are making wild swing's with no statistical data to back it up, then you are going to raise the eyebrow of people in the know.

 

   Let me be clear. You are free to discuss anything you want. I invite it. It's the only way we are going to learn about one another. Lastly, we are all racists about something if we are bring honest.

[Buzzrock 14945]

Lastly, we are all racists about something if we are bring honest.

This is where I think people confuse racist with prejudiced.

Everyone is prejudiced. Not everyone is a racist.

[SDG 3319]

La Fitness says "hold my beer."

la-fitness-employees-called-911-on-two-black-men-they-said-didnt-pay-they-had

 

Quote

Two black men were wrongly accused of not paying to use a gym in New Jersey, and the police were subsequently called on them, days after a similar incident at a Philadelphia Starbucks catapulted the problem of racial profiling in commercial spaces into the national spotlight.

The men were working out at an LA Fitness in Secaucus, N.J., on the evening of April 15, according to a Facebook post by one of the men, Tshyrad Oates, as well as the Secaucus Police Department. In the Facebook post — which garnered 29,000 reactions and more than 61,000 shares since Monday — Oates wrote that he signed in to work out with his four-day guest pass to meet a friend who was a current member of the gym.

Oates wrote that a half-hour later, he was approached by the same female employee who signed him in and told him he had to leave or pay. After Oates told the employee that she had just checked him in under a guest pass, the employee said it was Oates’s friend who had not paid. The employee did not know that the gym’s manager had already scanned the friend’s membership pass.

“He felt racially profiled and embarrassed by the harassment of this LA Fitness employee in front of other members at the gym,” Oates wrote.

 

[Johnny Sack 8397]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

Let me address the points one by one.

 

1) Chrispy said that black father's needed to try and stay in their kid's homes. A statement like that implies they aren't trying. That is completely different than discussing statistics, or the why's it may be happening. Hopefully you understand the difference. The discussion of data is not racist. The implication that black father's aren't trying is. If you are not guilty of that then you are free and clear. Discuss the data all you want.

 

2) The second point about BigLaw was an assumption on Johnny Sack's part. Once again, if you are making wild swing's with no statistical data to back it up, then you are going to raise the eyebrow of people in the know.

 

   Let me be clear. You are free to discuss anything you want. I invite it. It's the only way we are going to learn about one another. Lastly, we are all racists about something if we are bring honest.

No it isn’t an assumption.  They will hire blacks below the grade cutoff. They won’t for whites. I’ve seen it. 

Being black is an advantage for getting into colleges and post grad degrees.  It’s also an advantage for getting hired at big law.  

[Brian Fantana 6691]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

No it isn’t an assumption.  They will hire blacks below the grade cutoff. They won’t for whites. I’ve seen it. 

Being black is an advantage for getting into colleges and post grad degrees.  It’s also an advantage for getting hired at big law.  

You must have really been against the recruitment of Vinve Young.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11821]

Can we stop this goddamned thread now?   Shit.  Take the racist discussions off the board.  

Edited April 22, 2018 by Judge Roybeanbag

[Chrispy 132]

3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Let me address the points one by one.

 

1) Chrispy said that black father's needed to try and stay in their kid's homes. A statement like that implies they aren't trying. That is completely different than discussing statistics, or the why's it may be happening. Hopefully you understand the difference. The discussion of data is not racist. The implication that black father's aren't trying is. If you are not guilty of that then you are free and clear. Discuss the data all you want.

 

2) The second point about BigLaw was an assumption on Johnny Sack's part. Once again, if you are making wild swing's with no statistical data to back it up, then you are going to raise the eyebrow of people in the know.

 

   Let me be clear. You are free to discuss anything you want. I invite it. It's the only way we are going to learn about one another. Lastly, we are all racists about something if we are bring honest.

Call me a racist and blame external factors, it makes no difference to me. I expect more out of black fathers not less, simply because I know they are fully capable. The people stating that they’re trying their best and still failing so miserably are the real racists. Anyway, I’ve gone back and forth on this thread and I’ve been reduced to tautology to make my point. The onus to fix the problem is on them, have a good one.

[Judge Roybeanbag 11821]

God bless trumpy bear.  

[bad_teammate 13225]

2 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Can we stop this goddamned thread now?   Shit.  Take the racist discussions off the board.  

Conservative white men are highly triggered by acknowledgement of the reality of anti-black racism in America.

[blackmarketbaby 118]

7 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Conservative white men are highly triggered by acknowledgement of the reality of anti-black racism in America.

That's pretty racist you insufferable prick

[David Dennison 18950]

1 hour ago, Chrispy said:

Call me a racist and blame external factors, it makes no difference to me. I expect more out of black fathers not less, simply because I know they are fully capable. The people stating that they’re trying their best and still failing so miserably are the real racists. Anyway, I’ve gone back and forth on this thread and I’ve been reduced to tautology to make my point. The onus to fix the problem is on them, have a good one.

You expect more from the oppressed, but you don't expect more from their oppressors.

How very white of you.

[blackmarketbaby 118]

3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You expect more from the oppressed, but you don't expect more from their oppressors.

How very white of you.

Just call him a racist like he asked boy

[Thatguy 8881]

4 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

No it isn’t an assumption.  They will hire blacks below the grade cutoff. They won’t for whites. I’ve seen it. 

Being black is an advantage for getting into colleges and post grad degrees.  It’s also an advantage for getting hired at big law.  

Coming from lower quality public education systems is an advantage for getting into colleges.....gotcha. 

Edited April 22, 2018 by Thatguy

[Chrispy 132]

41 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

You expect more from the oppressed, but you don't expect more from their oppressors.

How very white of you.

Get some rest David, your mortification of the flesh ritual starts bright and early. 

[blackmarketbaby 118]

Thatguy told Johnny what he said. 

[David Dennison 18950]

2 minutes ago, Chrispy said:

Get some rest David, your mortification of the flesh ritual starts bright and early. 

Be better.

[Chrispy 132]

1 minute ago, David Dennison said:

Be better.

Give yourself a couple extra lashings for me, sweet dreams. 

[David Dennison 18950]

1 minute ago, Chrispy said:

Give yourself a couple extra lashings for me, sweet dreams. 

Don't expect so little from yourself. You can do better.

[blackmarketbaby 118]

David is lashing out

[Brian Fantana 6691]

I'm glad Epi Quinn finally made his way here

[futureman 22550]

2 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Coming from lower quality public education systems is an advantage for getting into colleges.....gotcha. 

are you the same “thatguy” from shaggy who had the cartoon avatar?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

9 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Coming from lower quality public education systems is an advantage for getting into colleges.....gotcha. 

What I said is true but you can’t admit it.  Why is that?

[CooterBrown 18032]

La Fitness says "hold my beer."
la-fitness-employees-called-911-on-two-black-men-they-said-didnt-pay-they-had
 

Two black men were wrongly accused of not paying to use a gym in New Jersey, and the police were subsequently called on them, days after a similar incident at a Philadelphia Starbucks catapulted the problem of racial profiling in commercial spaces into the national spotlight.

The men were working out at an LA Fitness in Secaucus, N.J., on the evening of April 15, according to a Facebook post by one of the men, Tshyrad Oates, as well as the Secaucus Police Department. In the Facebook post — which garnered 29,000 reactions and more than 61,000 shares since Monday — Oates wrote that he signed in to work out with his four-day guest pass to meet a friend who was a current member of the gym.

Oates wrote that a half-hour later, he was approached by the same female employee who signed him in and told him he had to leave or pay. After Oates told the employee that she had just checked him in under a guest pass, the employee said it was Oates’s friend who had not paid. The employee did not know that the gym’s manager had already scanned the friend’s membership pass.

“He felt racially profiled and embarrassed by the harassment of this LA Fitness employee in front of other members at the gym,” Oates wrote.

 

As a member of LA Fitness, I find it difficult to believe an employee got off their ass to confront a customer. When a dude had a heart attack playing racquetball a few months ago, they wouldn’t leave the desk, fearful they’d have to do something. Luckily a nurse was there and saved that guy. Oh yeah, he was black.

[futureman 22550]

1 minute ago, CooterBrown said:

 

As a member of LA Fitness, I find it difficult to believe an employee got off their ass to confront a customer. When a dude had a heart attack playing racquetball a few months ago, they wouldn’t leave the desk, fearful they’d have to do something. Luckily a nurse was there and saved that guy. Oh yeah, he was black.

the lazy employee who wouldn’t get off their ass was black?

[Buzzrock 14945]

Everyone knows what Sack is talking about. I myself as a manager have been strongly encouraged to hire a “diversity candidate” over others. In that particular case I was glad that the most qualified candidate was a minority.

However, Sack is leaving out the massive qualifier of “all other things being equal”. And that is far too often not the case. Yes, for two candidates of similar backgrounds with similar opportunities etc then it can be an advantage to be a minority.

[bad_teammate 13225]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

What I said is true but you can’t admit it.  Why is that?

You're making the analysis way more general than it deserves so no, not true. There are a select few college/employment situations in which blackness is a benefit, and to even accept those select few circumstances you have to actively ignore the totality of the comparison and pretend only that one slice of time exists.

[David Dennison 18950]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

What I said is true but you can’t admit it.  Why is that?

Let's put it this way - Have you ever felt that being white put you at a societal, economic, or political disadvantage in this country?

[Johnny Sack 8397]

13 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Let's put it this way - Have you ever felt that being white put you at a societal, economic, or political disadvantage in this country?

Maybe a little in high school when I lived for two years in the Rio Grande Valley.  Nothing too bad, especially since I could speak the language. 

With my GPA and LSAT, I probably get into one of the top 5 type schools I applied to had I been black.  But I am not sure I would have even done that.  UT is a damn good school, the cost was right, family and friends closer, and I fucking loved being a short drive from our place in South Texas to hunt and fuck around.  

So overall, of course not.

[David Dennison 18950]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Maybe a little in high school when I lived for two years in the Rio Grande Valley.  Nothing too bad, especially since I could speak the language. 

With my GPA and LSAT, I probably get into one of the top 5 type schools I applied to had I been black.  But I am not sure I would have even done that.  UT is a damn good school, the cost was right, family and friends closer, and I fucking loved being a short drive from our place in South Texas to hunt and fuck around.  

So overall, of course not.

Neither have I. Not even once.

And that's the point.

[kopp0e 1135]

16 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Can we stop this goddamned thread now?   Shit.  Take the racist discussions off the board.  

We need to remember two things as a people:

1.) We as a collection of ideals/ socio-economic status/ parental rearing & upbringing will never exactly see eye to eye on all issues, and that is just fine, we don't have to agree...

2.) Due to prejudices, a lack of true knowledge of not only one another's history, but our own true ancient cultures, the best we can hope for is positive discourse & smiles on this...

Which is why Australia/ Egypt/ Germany/ Brazil/ China/ Russia, find the culture of our nation so divers as to emulate America's culture, we have it better than the problems we make...

 

[CooterBrown 18032]

4 hours ago, futureman said:

the lazy employee who wouldn’t get off their ass was black?

the dying guy was black.  Actually, I think one of the lazy workers was black also. Ain't nobody got time for that.

 

[Enchubben 5512]

4 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Let's put it this way - Have you ever felt that being white put you at a societal, economic, or political disadvantage in this country?

When applying for college scholarships, yes. When interviewing for promotion at my current firm, yes. 

[HenryJames 66186]

I think what’s getting lost in all of this is that Cooter works out at LA Fitness.

[fattyflattie 4638]

On 4/21/2018 at 12:29 PM, Catdaddyhorn said:

On 4/21/2018 at 11:26 AM, fattyflattie said:

That guy,
Using your definitions, 2 a and b in particular, do you feel the fact that I can't reasonably attend PVAM or TSU racist?  And I don't mean technically - lets not be obtuse - I mean without making a spectacle of the whole thing? NAACP membership? Any of that racist? 

Read more  

Do you really think that only black people are allowed into TSU and Prairie View? Are you really that ignorant?

I didn't say I couldn't attend, read more carefully. Especially if you want to call others ignorant. I see the one white guy walking by when they make the news for whatever reason. 87%AA and 2%"white" for PVAM, btw. Seems diverse af. 

80% AA for TSU and they didn't bother breaking down the tiny slices of pie for the other races.

You are being obtuse if you are representing them as schools the typical white student considers - to imply otherwise would mean there are some simpleton whites applying and being turned down, with that glowing 71% acceptance rate. 

Ill admit, I'm suprised at 80% and almost 90%, I thought it was higher. I never looked it up; 1) i don't really give a fuck. 2) I don't try and find race in every conversation I have. Some of y'all should try that if you can find the time between being oppressed and name calling everyone who doesn't agree with you. 

Noticed you let the NCAAP part of the question slide.