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Black people arrested for sitting in a Starbucks

Pancho

By Pancho
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Rocko
Rocko

Maybe don’t break the law and you won’t get arrested. I somehow avoid it every day.  

Pancho
Pancho

Ahh, yes, this pretending by those Conservatives/Republicans that blacks are facing a crisis due to the out of wedlock birth rate, and the perception that you really believe it's a crises when you don

Landomatic
Landomatic

So, to be clear... 1) Starbucks has a policy that you have to be a paying customer to hang out there and/or use the restroom. 2) Some guys, who happen to be black, want to hang out there and

Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3,932

Posted
Posted

If folks want to start putting specifics into context, here's the Philly Inquirer article on what they have thus far:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/starbucks-philadelphia-police-viral-video-investigation-race-20180414.html

Quote

 

The video, posted by Twitter user @missydepino on Thursday which gathered more than 2.7 million views by 12:40 p.m. Saturday, shows at least six Philadelphia police officers taking the two men into custody without resistance at the Starbucks coffee shop at 18th and Spruce Streets....

A second video, apparently taken minutes earlier and leading up to the arrest, shows a group of Philadelphia Police officers speaking to the men and removing chairs and tables from around the table where they are seated. The men sit calmly as the officers move closer. Then a third man, Alan Yaffe, who is white, enters the frame and questions why the police are standing over the men. One officer says they are “trespassing,” and adds they had been asked to leave....

“Why would they be asked to leave?” Yaffe asks, adding that the men were waiting for him. “I wanted to get coffee for two black guys sitting and meeting with me,” he tells the officer. “Does anybody else think this is ridiculous?” he asks other patrons in the shop. A woman agrees. “It’s absolute discrimination,” Yaffe adds. He says he and the men can go elsewhere to meet. An officer says it’s too late for that, because the two sitting men had previously declined to leave. The video ends as the officers arrest the men and leading them out of the coffee shop.

Yaffe, founder and president of AY Industries, a real estate development, investment and management firm, called attorney Lauren Wimmer about the incident. “He was meeting with the two gentlemen at the Starbucks to discuss business,” Wimmer said Saturday, identifying Yaffe as a friend. “These two guys are business professionals in commercial real estate.”...

“Based on my discussion with witnesses,” a Starbucks manager “was the person who called 911,” Wimmer added. Also based on her interviews with eyewitnesses, Wimmer said she believed the reason for the address “was completely based on race. There was no indication any crime was being committed, and the video makes that clear.” She added that in her criminal defense practice she has received previous complaints of African Americans arrested at businesses and accused of trespassing who had not committed crimes.

 

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Nice Guy Eddie

Nice Guy Eddie 13,523

Posted
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Will be interesting to understand why the cops were called.   Doesn’t sound like the guys were doing anything that many others do in Starbucks.   

But racism aside, when the cops say you’re leaving an establishment, you are unless the owner/Mgr steps in.  It’s your call how you want it to work.  Sad these guys had to go to jail 

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Landomatic

Landomatic 3,813

Posted
Posted

Starbucks has a policy that you have to order something if you want to sit there.  How do I know?  My local Starbucks has a homeless man who sits inside it every day for most of the day.  He has been told that he has to order something if he wants to sit there so he gets one small plain coffee every morning.  He never bothers anyone.  He keeps to himself and uses their free WiFi pretty much all day.  He’s white. Let these guys sit there without ordering...you’re disparaging against the homeless.  Would be outrageous.

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SubliminalHorn

SubliminalHorn 6,811

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Posted
1 hour ago, In10se said:

A few weeks ago I was picking up an order at an IHOP in Plano at 11 pm and a homeless white guy was sitting inside the waiting area just screaming all sorts of vile shit at some imaginary person and not a single person called the cops. If it was a black dude wonder how long until cops show up. 

Philly and Boston are insanely racist though. 

Well I mean, it’s ihop, everyone there knows the deal

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RDCanecutter

RDCanecutter 26,473

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, In10se said:

A few weeks ago I was picking up an order at an IHOP in Plano at 11 pm and a homeless white guy was sitting inside the waiting area just screaming all sorts of vile shit at some imaginary person and not a single person called the cops. If it was a black dude wonder how long until cops show up. 

 

I don't remember being in Plano or IHOP, but there's so much missing from my memory these days. Sorry if I offended you. Bath salts, not even once, kids.

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Mole

Mole 4,333

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Casual Encounter said:

You may be correct but we don’t know all of the events leading up to the video.

1. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth

2. Overpriced coffee.

3. Black guys arrested in Starbucks

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Patrick Bateman

Patrick Bateman 3,932

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

And if the law that you do break is selectively enforced in a racially discriminatory manner, too fucking bad. Stop being a baby.

I'm going to guess it was selectively enforced business policy...... Doesn't appear the cops came in the local Starbucks to scope for minority loiterers.  Appears like the local Starbucks manager is probably a bit scared out of their shirt by brown people or just as likely... poor people.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/starbucks-philadelphia-police-viral-video-investigation-race-20180414.html

Cops side:

Quote

Ross said Starbucks staff called 911 and police arrived around 4:40 p.m. Thursday. According to Ross, Starbucks employees “said two males were trespassing” and “refused to leave.” The men hadn’t ordered food, and had asked to use the restroom. Starbucks policy does “not allow nonpaying people from the public to come in and use the restroom,” Ross said. Police then asked the men to leave, since Starbucks wanted them out.

Ross said the men were told they were trespassing and were “asked to leave politely,” three times. He said the men answered that “we don’t care,” which Ross called the “same type of attitude” Starbucks staff had described. Ross said police on the scene, “in an effort to quell the situation, called for a supervisor” to keep things from getting “out of hand.” He praised that decision.

Ross said the men were then “taken out essentially without incident” and with “no harm done to them.” He said police processed the pair for arrest, but later “discovered Starbucks was no longer interested in prosecuting,” and let them go. In short, “these officers had legal standing to make this arrest. They were called to this scene because these people were trespassing. Officers “followed policy” and acted “professional, and got the opposite back.”

He added: “As an African American male, I am very aware of implicit bias.” Ross said the department is “committed to fair and unbiased policing.” But, he said, people who “think logically” should recognize that when a business calls and says, “There is someone here I do not want,” officers have a right to act.

Ross, who said he doesn’t frequent Starbucks, said “we haven’t determined” if “there are things we can do better.” Recalling a previous occasion on which a police sergeant “was denied access” to a Starbucks restroom, Ross added, “at least they are consistent in their policy.”

 

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TwiceHorn

TwiceHorn 31,536

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, In10se said:

Philly and Boston are insanely racist though. 

Which is somewhat fascinating to me, because both have large, relatively recent (late 19th, early 20th century) immigrant populations in the Italians and Irish.  I suppose though, that recentish white European immigrants may be given to a higher degree of racism than portions of the population that have been mixing for a while.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4,580

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34 minutes ago, woohorn said:

A: yes.

Once police are called and subject disobeys THEIR "commands", subjects are leaving in cuffs or gurneys. It's a police state issue at that point, not a racism one.

It could be both.  An owner or employee complaint doesn't give the cops carte blanche.  Cops shouldn't enforce a whites-only policy at a public restaurant, for example.  In a situation like this, it might hard to establish the motivation of the complainant, but the cops shouldn't immediately go into "now you do what I told ya" mode.  When the guy they were meeting for coffee shows up, confirming their story, it's OK for the cops to deescalate without making an arrest.  Even if it hurts their egos that the black guys didn't immediately comply with their unjust commands.

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woohorn

woohorn 1,131

Posted
Posted



When the guy they were meeting for coffee shows up, confirming their story, it's OK for the cops to deescalate without making an arrest.  Even if it hurts their egos that the black guys didn't immediately comply with their unjust commands.


Man, you sure like to type.

Private property asks person to leave, they don't - nbd.

Cops come and ask person to leave and they don't-its cuffs or guns. Right or wrong, it's as simple as that.
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PatSolitanojr

PatSolitanojr 518

Posted
Posted
46 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Anti-cop and anti-gun are far more aligned in American politics than any other permutation. Pro-gun and pro-cop is virtually an identity in current politics.

>why do you need a gun the cops will protect you

>god cops suck 

this is you 

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4,580

Posted
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24 minutes ago, woohorn said:


 

 


Man, you sure like to type.

Private property asks person to leave, they don't - nbd.

Cops come and ask person to leave and they don't-its cuffs or guns. Right or wrong, it's as simple as that.

 

It's actually not as simple as that.  One can question why the cops asked them to leave, and why the cops didn't change their minds when the misunderstanding was cleared up.  The notion that cops must be obeyed without question, as if they are our parents and we are their children, is a huge problem, and it's sad that you think in those terms in a free society.

The only time you absolutely must immediately obey is when you are putting the cops in reasonable fear for their safety.   If you have a gun, and they tell you to drop it, you fucking drop it.  If you are sitting in a chair posing no threat, you can question what you're being told to do. 

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po elvis

po elvis 2,076

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3 minutes ago, Mojo Hand said:

It's actually not as simple as that.  One can question why the cops asked them to leave, and why the cops didn't change their minds when the misunderstanding was cleared up.  The notion that cops must be obeyed without question, as if they are our parents and we are their children, is a huge problem, and it's sad that you think in those terms in a free society.

The only time you absolutely must immediately obey is when you are putting the cops in reasonable fear for their safety.   If you have a gun, and they tell you to drop it, you fucking drop it.  If you are sitting in a chair posing no threat, you can question what you're being told to do. 

business wants these guys to leave. they asked them 3 times. cops job is to make them leave. their job isn't to decide it if is ok for them to stay.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4,580

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Just now, po elvis said:

business wants these guys to leave. they asked them 3 times. cops job is to make them leave. their job isn't to decide it if is ok for them to stay.

It's their job to deescalate the situation. Cops often talk to the complaining party in a situation to work things out.  It literally happens every day.  When the guy they were meeting shows up, that presents a good opportunity to mediate things.  Maybe it wouldn't have worked out, but "sorry not listening you have to do what I told you before" isn't the only option. 

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Landomatic

Landomatic 3,813

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1 hour ago, Patrick Bateman said:

I'm going to guess it was selectively enforced business policy...... Doesn't appear the cops came in the local Starbucks to scope for minority loiterers.  Appears like the local Starbucks manager is probably a bit scared out of their shirt by brown people or just as likely... poor people.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/starbucks-philadelphia-police-viral-video-investigation-race-20180414.html

Cops side:

 

So, to be clear...

1) Starbucks has a policy that you have to be a paying customer to hang out there and/or use the restroom.

2) Some guys, who happen to be black, want to hang out there and/or use the restroom without buying anything.

3) Starbucks employees ask them to leave as they are in violation or the policy.

4) Guys don’t care because they think those policies shouldnt apply to them and refuse to leave private property.

5) Cops are called, some of which also happen to be black.

6) Cops again ask guys to leave as they are now considered to be trespassing.

7) Guys again refuse because not only store policies, but also the law shouldn’t apply to them.

8) Guys are arrested for breaking the law.

9) Bunch of people on the internet get all worked up because it’s racism if you ask black people to obey policies and laws.

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Homesickhorn

Homesickhorn 2,208

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Posted

The CRA may give the additional leverage of legal recourse. I like more weapons, not fewer.

One of my friends in law school - a prince of a guy, smart as hell, now quite successful - is a black guy who grew up in Philly. I remember him telling me about an occasion the summer before Law school.


I’m assuming that this was AFTER he got in one little fight, and his mom got scared, and said that he was moving to his Aunty and Uncle’s in Bellaire?




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4,580

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Posted
3 minutes ago, woohorn said:

My bad. Thought you had to obey when cops ask you to leave after private property owner males a case for trespassing.

Carry on.

If that's the case, they would have been charged with a crime for not immediately obeying.  But they weren't charged because there's no way in hell that charge would stick in this situation.  In fact, the DA has concluded there was a "lack of evidence that a crime was committed."  And when that's the case, it's entirely appropriate to wonder why the cops arrested them in the first place. 

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Brian Fantana

Brian Fantana 6,690

Posted
Posted
49 minutes ago, woohorn said:


 

 


Man, you sure like to type.

Private property asks person to leave, they don't - nbd.

Cops come and ask person to leave and they don't-its cuffs or guns. Right or wrong, it's as simple as that.

 

 

10 minutes ago, po elvis said:

business wants these guys to leave. they asked them 3 times. cops job is to make them leave. their job isn't to decide it if is ok for them to stay.

This is not how it's supposed to work. Not even close. You fucking idiots watch too much TV.

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Mojo Hand

Mojo Hand 4,580

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Landomatic said:

So, to be clear...

1) Starbucks has a policy that you have to be a paying customer to hang out there and/or use the restroom.

2) Some guys, who happen to be black, want to hang out there and/or use the restroom without buying anything.

3) Starbucks employees ask them to leave as they are in violation or the policy.

4) Guys don’t care because they think those policies shouldnt apply to them and refuse to leave private property.

5) Cops are called, some of which also happen to be black.

6) Cops again ask guys to leave as they are now considered to be trespassing.

7) Guys again refuse because not only store policies, but also the law shouldn’t apply to them.

8) Guys are arrested for breaking the law.

9) Bunch of people on the internet get all worked up because it’s racism if you ask black people to obey policies and laws.

Where's the part in your summary about them getting there early to meet someone for coffee, which the guy they were meeting confirmed when he arrived? 

Edited by Mojo Hand
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kopp0e

kopp0e 1,135

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Will be interesting to understand why the cops were called.   Doesn’t sound like the guys were doing anything that many others do in Starbucks.   

But racism aside, when the cops say you’re leaving an establishment, you are unless the owner/Mgr steps in.  It’s your call how you want it to work.  Sad these guys had to go to jail 

Well, kind of like you said, if a cop comes up to me and says "leave this establishment" after I ask for what reason, if he replies "we were called on you" my options are:

A). Dispute the reason he is asking me to leave - GO TO JAIL

B). Politely choose to take my services elsewhere - NOT GO TO JAIL

Even if I feel undue harassment, I would still think pragmatically (if sober) and choose option B...

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