Black people arrested for sitting in a Starbucks

[VRHorn 718]

And the manager is gone...doesn't solve the main issue of the thread, but it completely aligns with their corporate culture.

[RomaVicta 29977]

Gentlemen, I'm sorry, but Starbucks does not offer loose shoes, tight pussy or a warm place to shit for non customers. You boys move on along now. Not that door!

[PHLaggie 110]

Since nobody posted this yet, here is the Philly Police Chief himself going live on Facebook to explain the actions of his cops.

 

[PHLaggie 110]

This happened in Rittenhouse Square area of Center City; it's one of the poshest parts of town, but Center City as a whole has huge diversity-- the situation at this Starbucks would be like anybody walking down mid-town Manhattan and entering any of the Starbucks or other coffee shops there.

This situation escalated too much and didn't need to. But once the cops were called, they basically played by the book. The problem was, they shouldn't have been called in the first place.

Funny thing is, the Starbucks in the Center City Macy's was in the news locally a couple years ago for refusing to let cops access to its bathroom without first buying a drink... haha  The police union then made a big bruhaha about that episode, calling to attention how that Starbucks calls up the police a lot to help with removing the homeless that sometimes linger there.

So, at least the directly owned/operated (as opposed to franchisee operations) Starbucks locations in Philly do have a policy of no bathroom without first purchasing a drink.  The same is true for locations in Manhattan and in places like Hollywood-- tourist meccas that automatically get huge crowds at Starbucks. Often at those locations, the lines are long...for bathroom use as well as for buying coffee drinks...  Of course, having a policy, and having it applied differently are two different things. In this instance, race was likely a factor even if nobody wants to admit it.

Edited April 16, 2018 by PHLaggie

[Brothahorn 10087]

Seems like bullshit to me. I knew there was a good reason not to go to Starbucks.

Although, I swear I saw a black guy w/ dreads walk by. So what was his story?

[Dr. Teeth 5845]

2 hours ago, VRHorn said:

And the manager is gone...doesn't solve the main issue of the thread, but it completely aligns with their corporate culture.

Will Laura Ingraham have him on tonight or tomorrow?

[Amobie 58]

I don't think this was racial but it certainly was dumb.  

It's always been my understanding that most restaurants have a policy where you can't take up a seat unless you order something.  If they were asked to leave by the manager, they should have told the manager they were meeting a friend and wanted to wait till he arrived before ordering.  Situation handled and conflict avoided. 

That being said..  How long were these guys waiting before they called the cops on them?  How long were they sitting there before they were approached by the manager?  How did they respond when they were approached?

No matter what, the manager is an idiot but I could be more sympathetic to him based on the details of the situation.

[Hank Kingsley 21034]

 

[purplepride95 6890]

Terrible timing.

[Hank Kingsley 21034]

45 minutes ago, Amobie said:

I don't think this was racial but it certainly was dumb.  

It's always been my understanding that most restaurants have a policy where you can't take up a seat unless you order something.  If they were asked to leave by the manager, they should have told the manager they were meeting a friend and wanted to wait till he arrived before ordering.  Situation handled and conflict avoided. 

That being said..  How long were these guys waiting before they called the cops on them?  How long were they sitting there before they were approached by the manager?  How did they respond when they were approached?

No matter what, the manager is an idiot but I could be more sympathetic to him based on the details of the situation.

- It was racial profiling

- Starbucks should not be compared to most restaurants.  I never drank coffee until I had a kid, but now I go to the neighborhood Starbucks every morning before work.  There are constantly people loitering in there: I've seen people standing around talking loudly on their phone without ordering, I've seen the same homeless woman take shelter and sit in a chair while reading the newspaper, and plenty of other people waiting for someone or sitting inside without ordering anything.  On a few occasions I've had business meetings at a Starbucks, and I sit down at a table without ordering until my client arrives.  

- All your questions have been answered by either video of the incident or tweets/articles posted in this thread.  The two gentlemen were calm and respectful throughout the ordeal

- This isn't a Starbucks issue IMO.  It's a people issue. We have to start holding other people (and ourselves) accountable for their implicit biases. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by Hank Kingsley

[Brisketexan 105276]

So, is this the new Starbucks order?

"I'll take my coffee black...like your unwelcome customers."

I may give it a try.

Wait, no I won't.  I don't like shitty coffee.

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

Starbucks does have some nice restrooms. I've shat in their restrooms (and changed my kids' diapers) more times than I've ever ordered coffee from Starbucks. Never been arrested or told to leave or told I couldn't use the restroom.

Probably not a coincidence that I'm not black.

[PHLaggie 110]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Wait, no I won't.  I don't like shitty coffee.

I thought that was only available in South Park, next to shitty wok and their offerings of shitty chicken and shitty beef.

Edited April 16, 2018 by PHLaggie

[Amobie 58]

57 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

- It was racial profiling

- Starbucks should not be compared to most restaurants.  I never drank coffee until I had a kid, but now I go to the neighborhood Starbucks every morning before work.  There are constantly people loitering in there: I've seen people standing around talking loudly on their phone without ordering, I've seen the same homeless woman take shelter and sit in a chair while reading the newspaper, and plenty of other people waiting for someone or sitting inside without ordering anything.  On a few occasions I've had business meetings at a Starbucks, and I sit down at a table without ordering until my client arrives.  

- All your questions have been answered by either video of the incident or tweets/articles posted in this thread.  The two gentlemen were calm and respectful throughout the ordeal

- This isn't a Starbucks issue IMO.  It's a people issue. We have to start holding other people (and ourselves) accountable for their implicit biases. 

Without a doubt i'm blaming the manager but i'm not convinced it was racially motivated.  If you are running one of those places, you don't make a stink about someone occupying a table unless you are having a shortage of tables.  

I didn't see anything that gave the details of how long the guys were there prior to being asked to leave.  In the videos they did not act like they were bothering anyone and like you said, they were calm and respectful from what we've seen.  The facebook live video claims that they were making rude comments to the staff about them only making 40k a year so if that's true, they could have been calm assholes to the staff...  I'd like to know more about what happened to lead the manager to actually call the police from both sides of the incident.

Either way,  if you are asked to leave, just leave.  Not worth getting arrested over something like that.  The policy is dumb but they have it there so paying customers get access to their tables and restrooms.  That's just a general statement though, not implying they should have been asked to leave in the first lace.

[PHLaggie 110]

1 hour ago, High Plains Drifter said:

Starbucks does have some nice restrooms. I've shat in their restrooms (and changed my kids' diapers) more times than I've ever ordered coffee from Starbucks. Never been arrested or told to leave or told I couldn't use the restroom.

Probably not a coincidence that I'm not black.

I remember always stopping off at this one Starbucks just north of Woodlands off of I-45 on my way to/from Dallas and Houston. They didn't use to have a key for the bathroom at first. But in a few years, they did.

McD's and Starbucks probably pay extra to their employees to make sure the bathrooms are kept clean and nice...and they usually are. And more discerning customers seek them out...  just like George Costanza does in Seinfeld.

 

[Brisketexan 105276]

One time, driving up to OU weekend, all of the, umm, beverages and junk food I had consumed hit me.  Hard. I told our driver we needed to make a pitstop, pronto.  We pull over at a Jack In the Box near Hillsboro, I think.  My buddy says "dude, you're about to go in there and pollute the place -- let me piss before you do."  Being chivalrous and kind, I let him do so.  I go in to have my eruption....and he's pissed....EVERYWHERE.  All over the toilet seat.  All over all the toilet paper.  I was wiping the toilet seat clean with the few fragments of dry paper left.  Then, I had to wipe my ass with a mix of dry and piss paper.

I come outside, and my buddies are laughing their asses off.

I gotta say, tip of the hat to them.  That was a pro-level dick move.

Would Starbucks let you get away with that?  If not, advantage, Jack in the Box.

[Mojo Hand 4580]

16 minutes ago, Amobie said:

Either way,  if you are asked to leave, just leave.  Not worth getting arrested over something like that.  The policy is dumb but they have it there so paying customers get access to their tables and restrooms.  That's just a general statement though, not implying they should have been asked to leave in the first lace.

If I'm asked to leave, I leave.  But I'm white.  If I'm asked to leave, there's no reason for me to think that it's because of racial discrimination.  I'd think "weird, I guess they're strict about their buying policy."  But if two black guys are asked to leave, they might reasonably have a different suspicion.  Especially if there's a white chick nearby who didn't buy anything and wasn't targeted, as has been reported.

Sure, their day will be easier if they just go along with it and leave, but I respect the hell out of them for standing their ground (unless more details come out that reveal something different about their conduct).  Non-violent civil disobedience has done some great things for this country.  

[Hank Kingsley 21034]

It's very had to place yourself in the shoes of a black person when you are white. But people should consider those scenarios more often. 

 

 

 

[Amobie 58]

5 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

It's very had to place yourself in the shoes of a black person when you are white. But people should consider those scenarios more often. 

 

 

How exactly do you imagine it?

Edited April 16, 2018 by Amobie

[Hank Kingsley 21034]

Lol.  That was so poorly worded. My bad.

 

[Brisketexan 105276]

3 minutes ago, Amobie said:

 

How exactly do you imagine it?

Well, for starters, maybe you should imagine they're Jordans?

[Dr. Teeth 5845]

15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, for starters, maybe you should imagine they're Jordans?

Fox News: Why are black spending all their food stamp money on Jordan’s?!?

[Cheeseweasel 26438]

24 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

It's very had to place yourself in the shoes of a black person when you are white. But people should consider those scenarios more often. 

 

 

 

[F250 28814]

8 minutes ago, Hank Kingsley said:

It's very had to place yourself in the shoes of a black person when you are white. But people should consider those scenarios more often. 

 

 

 

It's definitely a different perspective. Reminds me of the time my son's friend spent the night at our house for the first time. The kid is black, which we already knew but we never met his dad.

The afternoon his dad dropped him off he gets out of his car and introduces himself. Then says he just wanted to make sure everything was ok with his kid spending the night. He really emphasized if there were any issues to please let him know. It felt a little weird until I realized he meant if we were ok with a black kid spending the night.

From the outside we probably looked like Red Staters to him. One of my other kids was just pulling up on a dirt bike, there was a quad sitting in the back of my truck, I was dressed like Cooter from Dukes of Hazzard.

Anyways, it was something I had never encountered before but I can understand why the dad would be cautious about leaving his kid with us.

[Landomatic 3813]

49 minutes ago, F250 said:

It's definitely a different perspective. Reminds me of the time my son's friend spent the night at our house for the first time. The kid is black, which we already knew but we never met his dad.

The afternoon his dad dropped him off he gets out of his car and introduces himself. Then says he just wanted to make sure everything was ok with his kid spending the night. He really emphasized if there were any issues to please let him know. It felt a little weird until I realized he meant if we were ok with a black kid spending the night.

From the outside we probably looked like Red Staters to him. One of my other kids was just pulling up on a dirt bike, there was a quad sitting in the back of my truck, I was dressed like Cooter from Dukes of Hazzard.

Anyways, it was something I had never encountered before but I can understand why the dad would be cautious about leaving his kid with us.

You’ve really never had a parent check things out before letting their kid stay the night?  Like, just to confirm that’s actually what the kid is doing and to be sure the kid is where they claim they are and that the other parents are okay with it and plan to be home?  More of my kid’s friend’s parents do that than don’t.  And it’s never been about race to my knowledge.

[F250 28814]

3 hours ago, Landomatic said:

You’ve really never had a parent check things out before letting their kid stay the night?  Like, just to confirm that’s actually what the kid is doing and to be sure the kid is where they claim they are and that the other parents are okay with it and plan to be home?  More of my kid’s friend’s parents do that than don’t.  And it’s never been about race to my knowledge.

Yeah, I've had that conversation a million times but this wasn't that conversation.

[Sawbonz 27584]

5 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

One time, driving up to OU weekend, all of the, umm, beverages and junk food I had consumed hit me.  Hard. I told our driver we needed to make a pitstop, pronto.  We pull over at a Jack In the Box near Hillsboro, I think.  My buddy says "dude, you're about to go in there and pollute the place -- let me piss before you do."  Being chivalrous and kind, I let him do so.  I go in to have my eruption....and he's pissed....EVERYWHERE.  All over the toilet seat.  All over all the toilet paper.  I was wiping the toilet seat clean with the few fragments of dry paper left.  Then, I had to wipe my ass with a mix of dry and piss paper.

I come outside, and my buddies are laughing their asses off.

I gotta say, tip of the hat to them.  That was a pro-level dick move.

Would Starbucks let you get away with that?  If not, advantage, Jack in the Box.

I hope you paid them back by getting a dozen jitb tacos to go

[Brisketexan 105276]

29 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I hope you paid them back by getting a dozen jitb tacos to go

What part of "I damn near shit myself already" did you miss in that story?

[ChiTownDoc 21154]

9 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

One time, driving up to OU weekend, all of the, umm, beverages and junk food I had consumed hit me.  Hard. I told our driver we needed to make a pitstop, pronto.  We pull over at a Jack In the Box near Hillsboro, I think.  My buddy says "dude, you're about to go in there and pollute the place -- let me piss before you do."  Being chivalrous and kind, I let him do so.  I go in to have my eruption....and he's pissed....EVERYWHERE.  All over the toilet seat.  All over all the toilet paper.  I was wiping the toilet seat clean with the few fragments of dry paper left.  Then, I had to wipe my ass with a mix of dry and piss paper.

I come outside, and my buddies are laughing their asses off.

I gotta say, tip of the hat to them.  That was a pro-level dick move.

Would Starbucks let you get away with that?  If not, advantage, Jack in the Box.

I'd just shit my pants in the car and let them enjoy the aroma the entire ride back.  Of course, I'm not chivalrous and kind...

[Catdaddyhorn 3447]

Let's take a look through the annals of history and see what at times happens when the cops are called on unsuspecting black people . 

Tamir Rice: the 911 caller may have been drunk before calling and reporting that the 12 year old had a gun in the open carry state of Ohio.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/06/911_caller_was_frightened_tami.html

Quote

The man woke late in the morning Nov. 22 after sleeping at a friend's house on West 99^th Street near Madison Avenue. He left the house and bought a 24-ounce can of beer before heading to the recreation center. He sat near the gazebo and drank the beer while waiting for a 2:30 p.m. bus to arrive at the West Boulevard-Cudell Rapid Station.

 

John Crawford: the 911 caller straight up lied in this case. 

 

These guys are lucky that scaring white people didn't result in a more permanent problem. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Catdaddyhorn

[Johnny Sack 8397]

On 4/15/2018 at 10:46 AM, David Dennison said:

As a former Republican, it never ceases to amaze me how many white Republicans don't realize that they support the party of state sponsored white, rich violence.

Speaking of violence and since you seem to want to take some moral high ground based on your team, would the USA be less violent if all democrat constituencies left or if all GOP constituencies left?

Edited April 17, 2018 by Johnny Sack

[bad_teammate 13224]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Speaking of violence, would the USA be less violent if all democrat constituencies left or if all GOP constituencies left?

Hi, I'm Johnny Sack, and I like to fantasize about ethnic cleansing.

[David Dennison 18945]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Speaking of violence and since you seem to want to take some moral high ground based on your team, would the USA be less violent if all democrat constituencies left or if all GOP constituencies left?

The latter.

[F250 28814]

1 hour ago, Johnny Sack said:

Speaking of violence and since you seem to want to take some moral high ground based on your team, would the USA be less violent if all democrat constituencies left or if all GOP constituencies left?

 

[Brisketexan 105276]

 

Spoken like a Native American.

[F250 28814]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Spoken like a Native American.

Well, the little girls represents the reconquista.

[sidis 9832]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Speaking of violence and since you seem to want to take some moral high ground based on your team, would the USA be less violent if all democrat constituencies left or if all GOP constituencies left?

this question is akin to the type of serious intellectual reflection that leads to questions like...

if superman got into a fight with aquaman, batman, and green lantern at the same time, who would win?

if the city of new york got into a fight with the city of los angeles, who would win?

would hitler have lost ww2 if he could shoot laser beams out of his dick?

[F250 28814]

8 minutes ago, sidis said:

this question is akin to the type of serious intellectual reflection that leads to questions like...

if superman got into a fight with aquaman, batman, and green lantern at the same time, who would win?

if the city of new york got into a fight with the city of los angeles, who would win?

would hitler have lost ww2 if he could shoot laser beams out of his dick?

Superman's ejaculate is like a railgun being fired, so how did he impregnate Lois Lane?

 

[wildcat09 29377]

2 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Speaking of violence and since you seem to want to take some moral high ground based on your team, would the USA be less violent if all democrat constituencies left or if all GOP constituencies left?

Are we discussing actual voters or simply demographic groups?

[kopp0e 1135]

When what happens to be "normal" also affects celebrities:

 

 

[hayden_horn 11365]

19 hours ago, Mojo Hand said:

If I'm asked to leave, I leave.  But I'm white.  If I'm asked to leave, there's no reason for me to think that it's because of racial discrimination.  I'd think "weird, I guess they're strict about their buying policy."  But if two black guys are asked to leave, they might reasonably have a different suspicion.  Especially if there's a white chick nearby who didn't buy anything and wasn't targeted, as has been reported.

Sure, their day will be easier if they just go along with it and leave, but I respect the hell out of them for standing their ground (unless more details come out that reveal something different about their conduct).  Non-violent civil disobedience has done some great things for this country.  

this whole thing is pretty plain on its face. this was a confluence event between racial prejudice and cops' ego. at the point when their friend shows, up, the cops should have deescalated the situation. i mean, the black dudes had a story, and that story fucking checked out! at this point the cops go to the manager and say "you really want us to kick these dudes out? they are here to spend money." manager saves face, cops save face, and two innocent people don't have to spend meaningless time in jail cooling their heels for...nothing? on top of all that, how many cops does it take to eject two loiterers? what's the average 911 response in philly?

[Brian Fantana 6690]

3 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Speaking of violence and since you seem to want to take some moral high ground based on your team, would the USA be less violent if all democrat constituencies left or if all GOP constituencies left?

Lol what a dog whistle 

[Turkleton 145]

I'm just catching up here so I really don't know, but what race were the employees? Were they all white?

[Chooky 13317]

22 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

One time, driving up to OU weekend, all of the, umm, beverages and junk food I had consumed hit me.  Hard. I told our driver we needed to make a pitstop, pronto.  We pull over at a Jack In the Box near Hillsboro, I think.  My buddy says "dude, you're about to go in there and pollute the place -- let me piss before you do."  Being chivalrous and kind, I let him do so.  I go in to have my eruption....and he's pissed....EVERYWHERE.  All over the toilet seat.  All over all the toilet paper.  I was wiping the toilet seat clean with the few fragments of dry paper left.  Then, I had to wipe my ass with a mix of dry and piss paper.

I come outside, and my buddies are laughing their asses off.

I gotta say, tip of the hat to them.  That was a pro-level dick move.

Would Starbucks let you get away with that?  If not, advantage, Jack in the Box.

Your friend should've been castrated and sent to live the rest of his days Mogadishu.  Great prank, Farva.

[purplepride95 6890]

Quote

Starbucks says it will close its 8,000 company-owned stores in the United States for one afternoon to educate employees about racial bias.

Quote

"I've spent the last few days in Philadelphia with my leadership team listening to the community, learning what we did wrong and the steps we need to take to fix it," Starbucks CEO Kevin Johnson said in a statement.

"While this is not limited to Starbucks, we're committed to being a part of the solution," he said. "Closing our stores for racial bias training is just one step in a journey that requires dedication from every level of our company and partnerships in our local communities."

 

http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/17/news/companies/starbucks-store-closings-racial-bias-education/index.html

[hayden_horn 11365]

32 minutes ago, Chooky said:

Your friend should've been castrated and sent to live the rest of his days Mogadishu.  Great prank, Farva.

[High Plains Drifter 11050]

9 minutes ago, purplepride95 said:

 

http://money.cnn.com/2018/04/17/news/companies/starbucks-store-closings-racial-bias-education/index.html

After finally watching the video, two things come to mind:

1) Obvious racist bullshit as the perps were not even wearing grey slacks

2) What the hell was James Hardin doing in Philly, or as its more colloquially known "the Illadeph" or just "Illy" for short.

[hayden_horn 11365]

6 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

After finally watching the video, two things come to mind:

1) Obvious racist bullshit as the perps were not even wearing grey slacks

2) What the hell was James Hardin doing in Philly, or as its more colloquially known "the Illadeph" or just "Illy" for short.

it could have been worse. it could've happened in an illy coffee shop.

[Fozzz 152]

4 hours ago, sidis said:

this question is akin to the type of serious intellectual reflection that leads to questions like...

if superman got into a fight with aquaman, batman, and green lantern at the same time, who would win?

if the city of new york got into a fight with the city of los angeles, who would win?

would hitler have lost ww2 if he could shoot laser beams out of his dick?

Superman

NYC

Yes

[Sawbonz 27584]

nm

Edited April 17, 2018 by Sawbonz