Grant

[Texas St. Armadillos 1381]

History Channel.   Enjoyed the first night of 3.  Well done on the battles and strategy.  Actually, way better than Burns' Civil War in understanding what was going on.

[Macanudo 13019]

I dont know that I would say it was better but different.  Grant is really underrated by most Americans as to how important he was to the Union during the Civil War.  He made mistakes but he fought unlike McClellan and avoided the mistakes that Hooker and Pope made.  Always find it interesting that he had Meade stay on as head of the Army of the Potomac.  They didn't get along fabulously or anything but that's pretty remarkable.

It was pretty graphic for a History Channel show, that's for sure.  I'll keep watching because I have always like things that show the Civil War in a realistic way.  This show does.

[Biff Tannen 45751]

Thanks for the rec.  Didn't know History did anything worthwhile anymore.  Started the first one and agree about the good explanation of the progression of events.  Will try and finish it up tonight.

[RPM 26368]

All I can think of is this

 

[Parliament 14352]

Grant and Sherman understood war is a terrible thing. And you win wars by making them as terrible as possible for your enemy.

[PittsburghTiger 6210]

Set to record all episodes and will watch after the initial run.

[Macanudo 13019]

I can't spare this man.  He fights.

 

That it is one of my favorite quotes.

[atomheartbevo 89857]

2 hours ago, Macanudo said:

I can't spare this man.  He fights.

That it is one of my favorite quotes.

Sherman: Fuck Georgia!

[mchookem 16415]

the dramatization parts are really good. Grant was ruthless. 

[woohorn 1131]

I misread thread title as "Giant" and am a LITTLE disappointed. I watched the second ep tonight tho and enjoyed it.

 

 

[kevwun 15936]

Grant's memoir is really good.  Part of the reason he was so effective as a general is that he wrote clear and concise orders.  It sounds silly, but it was a big advantage in the Civil War.

[Macanudo 13019]

So here's my problem with this.  3 episodes (6 hours) and if spends about 40 minutes talking about the 8 years he was President. 

I enjoyed it but this should have been several more episodes.  Personally, I think both the war years and time in office needed more flesh. 

Did I miss it or did they cover the (apocryphal)  Lincoln quote about whether Grant's drinking...

"I wish some of you would tell me the brand of whiskey Grant drinks.  I would like to send a barrel of it to my other generals."

Sherman gets the credit for saying "War is hell" but Grant realized that waging total war on the South, no matter the costs to either side, was the way to win the war.  He's the one who sent Sherman marching to the sea and waged the Overland Campaign of attrition to the fight around Petersburg and Richmond that finally brought  Lee out of Richmond looking for food in those last few weeks. 

Grant gets short shrift in the pantheon of American giants.

[Amos Moses 795]

The point made at the end about the impact the “Lost Cause” movement had on Grant’s legacy was interesting and enlightening.  Growing up the “deep south” I fell into that impression of Grant too.  To hear that TRoosevelt held Grant up with Washington and Lincoln was illuminating.

[Macanudo 13019]

8 hours ago, Amos Moses said:

The point made at the end about the impact the “Lost Cause” movement had on Grant’s legacy was interesting and enlightening.  Growing up the “deep south” I fell into that impression of Grant too.  To hear that TRoosevelt held Grant up with Washington and Lincoln was illuminating.

I agree with that comment about the Lost Cause as well.   I just re-read Catton's Army of the Potomac trilogy last year for the first time in 35+ years.  When I was 12 and having just moved to Texas from Oregon, I was already aware of southern pride and the War of Northern Aggression.  My 12 year old brain went "but yall left the country and fired the first shot."  But southerners, even today, rationalize it with "but they (abolutionists/northerners/Republicans/Lincoln) made us do it".

When I was 12, I even thought "Lee was a master at maneuver and avoiding pitched battles on ground not of his choosing."   John Buford's decision to dismount his cavalry and setup on the high ground at Gettysburg probably was tactical decision that had extremely far reaching strategic importance and upset that applecare and, IMO, was one of the most important decisions made in any war.

With my re-read and other sources I now know Grant was as good as Lee and but more than anything he was willing to go the distance.

And one other thing I've learned in my 4o years on this planet...  If Teddy Roosevelt respected you, I'm totally on board. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Macanudo

[mchookem 16415]

glad we watched, i thought it was really good. 

the reconstruction and KKK stuff was fascinating and an aspect of his leadership i didn't really know anything about. 

i looked up Ely Parker afterward, the native american officer that wrote out the terms for Lee's surrender. fascinating figure himself and clearly defied stereotypes of the day. President Grant ended up making him the first native american head of the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Grant really was a trail blazer re: addressing racial inequalities. 

[Biff Tannen 45751]

Man, that was good.  Agree with others above about The Lost Cause narrative.  I am a history major, but the Civil War and Reconstruction is my weakest area.  This doc was very digestible and well done.  Sure it probably could have been a few more episodes, but I think the point was more of a broad overview.

[kevwun 15936]

They blew through Vicksburg.  That could have been a whole episode by itself.  They only mentioned the 7 different ways Grant tried to approach the city in passing.

[Macanudo 13019]

As I said above, totally agree.  Heck, the last two-three weeks before Appomattox are fascinating from a military perspective.  Lee was frantically trying to find forage for his dwindling army and Grant was checking him at every turn. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

On 5/28/2020 at 8:37 AM, Amos Moses said:

The point made at the end about the impact the “Lost Cause” movement had on Grant’s legacy was interesting and enlightening.  Growing up the “deep south” I fell into that impression of Grant too.  To hear that TRoosevelt held Grant up with Washington and Lincoln was illuminating.

As he should have. The best general the US has ever produced. The perfect man at the perfect time. Humble, smart, honest, an amazing horseman, and a binge drinker who was able to keep it corralled during campaigns from everything I've read.  

Grant, Sherman, Sheridan, Lee, and Stonewall Jackson. Four contemporaries who are Among the best we've ever produced in this nation.