Maui

[Baboontyme 2809]

Zeroing in on two separate Maui stays with a short jaunt to Oahu in between. Looking like Papakea for the first part and I'm looking at Honua Kai for segment two. Anyone familiar with Honua Kai?

[Baboontyme 2809]

Bumping as I'm getting deeper into Maui (and Oahu) Revealed. I am starting to think that maybe we won't do the Road to Hana. I am not sure it would be super enjoyable for my family. I know that I will be distressed the entire time due to my driving habits and associated anxiety. I'm not scared of narrow winding roads, but I am borderline obsessive about driving etiquette and I put a lot of stress on myself to know and anticipate every little thing. I wish I could turn my brain off but I can't without drugs or alcohol and I don't think that would be wise. My oldest is 13 and he is adventurous like me (Mom and my daughter not so much) but he is a puker prone to car sickness. My daughter won't be up for many of the hikes. It's a long time in the car for them, excursions notwithstanding. 

The other factor is the way I structured the trip, somewhat out of necessity. We are doing the first 3 days/2 nights in Maui at the Westin Nanea Ocean Villas. Then we are flying to Oahu for 2 nights at the Hilton Hawaiian Village, and then back to Maui for another 5 nights at Honua Kai. I'm not sure I want to spend a solid 2-3 days of that 5 day chunk exploring that side of the island. One day sounds better. So I am more thinking that we either do Haleakela (leaning sunset vs sunrise) OR road to Hana with Wai'anapanapa Park being the destination. We enjoy the resort atmosphere and for excursions prefer hidden gem types vs elbow jostling with other tourists. I also keep reading about what a shit show it has become for the locals and that is a turn off for me. The black sand beach and waterfall pools do sound awesome but at what tradeoff. 

Any thoughts?

[DalTxHornFan 3097]

I do not disagree with you.  Road to Hana can be a beating.

[Henry Hill 3156]

Road to Hana was more than worth it for me. Hopefully you get to do it if you go back for another trip.

[Poolflood 845]

7 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

Bumping as I'm getting deeper into Maui (and Oahu) Revealed. I am starting to think that maybe we won't do the Road to Hana. I am not sure it would be super enjoyable for my family. I know that I will be distressed the entire time due to my driving habits and associated anxiety. I'm not scared of narrow winding roads, but I am borderline obsessive about driving etiquette and I put a lot of stress on myself to know and anticipate every little thing. I wish I could turn my brain off but I can't without drugs or alcohol and I don't think that would be wise. My oldest is 13 and he is adventurous like me (Mom and my daughter not so much) but he is a puker prone to car sickness. My daughter won't be up for many of the hikes. It's a long time in the car for them, excursions notwithstanding. 

The other factor is the way I structured the trip, somewhat out of necessity. We are doing the first 3 days/2 nights in Maui at the Westin Nanea Ocean Villas. Then we are flying to Oahu for 2 nights at the Hilton Hawaiian Village, and then back to Maui for another 5 nights at Honua Kai. I'm not sure I want to spend a solid 2-3 days of that 5 day chunk exploring that side of the island. One day sounds better. So I am more thinking that we either do Haleakela (leaning sunset vs sunrise) OR road to Hana with Wai'anapanapa Park being the destination. We enjoy the resort atmosphere and for excursions prefer hidden gem types vs elbow jostling with other tourists. I also keep reading about what a shit show it has become for the locals and that is a turn off for me. The black sand beach and waterfall pools do sound awesome but at what tradeoff. 

Any thoughts?

Let go and enjoy it.  Make the stops, see the falls.  If you're wound up on vacation what's the point.  

[mdmost 42999]

Wife and I loved the Road to Hana when we did it on our trip in 2014. I love driving in an unfamiliar place. We got fully prepared and headed out early. We went straight to the our end point and then turned around, hitting the stops on the way back. It was a great experience for us. 

If it's going to make you tense enough where you don't think you can enjoy it, then I would skip. It is an endeavor but it sounds like you're not up for it and it might be a negative experience. Maybe go up to the top of Haleakala instead. 

[Damor 1236]

Curious for those who did the road to Hana what time of year you went.

We have been to Maui twice but haven't done it.  This trip, we have the time to devote a whole day to it without rushing and with kids who are of a tolerable age, so it's on the docket.  We are going in late June/early July, though, so I'm wondering what the odds are that the waterfalls will have much flow. 

I'd just like to be able to establish reasonable expectations, especially for the older one who envisions plummeting gracefully off of a cliff into an idyllic pool filled with deep azure waters and cacao-skinned girls wearing nothing but fragrant orchid and plumeria lei and a smile.

OK, there might be a little projecting there, but you get me.

[Mo Horn 8822]

We did the road to Hana several years ago in June. Loved it. Had a rental so went as far as we were allowed. We saw Charles Lundberg's grave, which is something most folks don't do. Sister and niece did it a year ago in January. They actually hired a driver to take them, and made the full loop. They said it was great doing it that way. They didn't have to drive and could stop wherever they wanted. 

[Damor 1236]

30 minutes ago, Mo Horn said:

 We saw Charles Lundberg's grave, which is something most folks don't do. 

Whatever you're into, man.

 

[mdmost 42999]

We took the Road to Hana in late February. Probably a low time on the island. We got up at the crack of dawn and headed to Paia to get some snacks, lunch for later, and coffee. We then got started around 7am. I think we hit the end point (Waimoku Falls) around 10:30. Did that for a bit and then found a nice vista to eat our lunch. Then backtracked. I think we were back to Paia around 6pm. 

Edited February 3, 2023 by mdmost

[Baboontyme 2809]

This is great feedback, thank you. I am going to discuss it with the family and see what everyone thinks. Reveal to the kids is happening next Friday, can't wait. 

One thing I am thinking is that if we do do it, we will do it backwards and the entire loop. I watched some YouTubes and at least from a driver's perspective I would have no problem with the narrow roads (more the other drivers). Question, though. I didn't see this mentioned in the Maui revealed book or any of the sites that I have been reading about the trip. Are most of the stops on the mountain side? I would presume so. If so that seems like it would really suck if doing it backwards. 

[DalTxHornFan 3097]

FWIW, we did do the "forbidden" road around the southern part of Maui and loved that whole area.  Think of wide open West Texas scenery with an ocean next to it. Good times -- and our rental car was only slightly damaged!

[mdmost 42999]

1 hour ago, Baboontyme said:

This is great feedback, thank you. I am going to discuss it with the family and see what everyone thinks. Reveal to the kids is happening next Friday, can't wait. 

One thing I am thinking is that if we do do it, we will do it backwards and the entire loop. I watched some YouTubes and at least from a driver's perspective I would have no problem with the narrow roads (more the other drivers). Question, though. I didn't see this mentioned in the Maui revealed book or any of the sites that I have been reading about the trip. Are most of the stops on the mountain side? I would presume so. If so that seems like it would really suck if doing it backwards. 

I think you misunderstood me. We went to the end point for us which was before the offroad path just after you see the backside of Haleakala State Park. We didn't do the full loop since we didn't want to risk the rental car. We then turned back and headed back the way we came, hitting the places we had passed already on the way back. That way we weren't stuck behind other people going in order. So we started at Paia and drove straight through to Waimoku Falls. Got out there and walked to the falls. Got back in the car and headed back towards Paia. This was back in the days before navigation on phones. We did it via a CD and a map. But we got in everything we wanted to see. The Seven Sacred Pools, the black sand beach, the red sand beach, and the Ke’anae Peninsula.  

I think this is the guide we used as this looks very familiar. I mapped out our journey the night before when we were having dinner at Mama's Fish House. If the Haliimaile General Store is still around, I highly recommend it.

You can get the guide on your phone now. https://ther2h.com/#intro-1

Edited February 3, 2023 by mdmost

[Hook1997 5351]

That road all the way around is really not bad at all.  I think the rental companies just don’t want to drive out there to get you if you breakdown.  

[Baboontyme 2809]

Thanks guys. No this is what I was considering. Starting the trip from the back/bottom/counter clockwise. If the majority come in from the top, do 75% of the road and then backtrack, I won't be fighting traffic if we start really early and drive the whole road starting on the backside of the volcano. Its actually shorter to do it that way, as well. Not worried about rental car companies, I'm using Turo and have a Bronco for this portion of the trip.

What I was wondering about was if we do it this way, am I going to be having to make a left hand turn across traffic at every pull out and then again when I'm trying to get back on the road.

This was the write up I was looking at the other day. 

https://www.earthtrekkers.com/road-to-hana/

[Kennythetiger 9374]

9 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

FWIW, we did do the "forbidden" road around the southern part of Maui and loved that whole area.  Think of wide open West Texas scenery with an ocean next to it. Good times -- and our rental car was only slightly damaged!

I 

[GenXer 2850]

On 1/31/2023 at 1:20 PM, Baboontyme said:

Bumping as I'm getting deeper into Maui (and Oahu) Revealed. I am starting to think that maybe we won't do the Road to Hana. I am not sure it would be super enjoyable for my family. I know that I will be distressed the entire time due to my driving habits and associated anxiety. I'm not scared of narrow winding roads, but I am borderline obsessive about driving etiquette and I put a lot of stress on myself to know and anticipate every little thing. I wish I could turn my brain off but I can't without drugs or alcohol and I don't think that would be wise. My oldest is 13 and he is adventurous like me (Mom and my daughter not so much) but he is a puker prone to car sickness. My daughter won't be up for many of the hikes. It's a long time in the car for them, excursions notwithstanding. 

The other factor is the way I structured the trip, somewhat out of necessity. We are doing the first 3 days/2 nights in Maui at the Westin Nanea Ocean Villas. Then we are flying to Oahu for 2 nights at the Hilton Hawaiian Village, and then back to Maui for another 5 nights at Honua Kai. I'm not sure I want to spend a solid 2-3 days of that 5 day chunk exploring that side of the island. One day sounds better. So I am more thinking that we either do Haleakela (leaning sunset vs sunrise) OR road to Hana with Wai'anapanapa Park being the destination. We enjoy the resort atmosphere and for excursions prefer hidden gem types vs elbow jostling with other tourists. I also keep reading about what a shit show it has become for the locals and that is a turn off for me. The black sand beach and waterfall pools do sound awesome but at what tradeoff. 

Any thoughts?

The drive on the northern route has all the trails and waterfalls. The Maui Revealed book cautions about the southern route. I’ve driven the northern route once with the return using the southern route. On a successive trip, I drove the southern route there and back. The southern route is a much quicker drive, no traffic and the road was in good shape. I don’t know why there was caution on using it. It’s also pretty straight so there’s less risk of car sickness.

The southern route is completely different than the northern route; it’s volcanic with very little vegetation. 

I’ve done haleakela twice. The first time was too foggy to see anything. The second time was amazing.

if I only had time to do one or the other, I’d do both. Haleakala at sunrise then take the southern route to the seven falls then turn around and take the southern route back. You’d miss the hikes on the northern route but there’s lots of waterfalls to see in hawaii.

I did these drives in 2006 and 2010 so I’m not sure if anything has changed about the southern route’s road conditions.

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by GenXer

[GenXer 2850]

3 hours ago, Baboontyme said:

Thanks guys. No this is what I was considering. Starting the trip from the back/bottom/counter clockwise. If the majority come in from the top, do 75% of the road and then backtrack, I won't be fighting traffic if we start really early and drive the whole road starting on the backside of the volcano. Its actually shorter to do it that way, as well. Not worried about rental car companies, I'm using Turo and have a Bronco for this portion of the trip.

What I was wondering about was if we do it this way, am I going to be having to make a left hand turn across traffic at every pull out and then again when I'm trying to get back on the road.

This was the write up I was looking at the other day. 

https://www.earthtrekkers.com/road-to-hana/

In my experience, albeit a long time ago, the pullouts are “downhill”. If you’re traveling the route counterclockwise, “downhill” will be on your right side. When you pull back onto the road, you’ll be making a right turn.

Edited February 3, 2023 by GenXer

[Hook1997 5351]

If you are staying in Lahaina area and choose to go all the way around it’s a quicker route if you have ever drove on a backroad or a street that’s not a interstate in a city you will be fine.  You can travel a lot faster because it’s all the same flat landscape with nothing for miles so not many stops and less traffic.  I personally would not recommend going all the way down the road to Hana  then turning around and doing it again, definitely more of a cluster fuck. 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Hook1997

[Baboontyme 2809]

The article I linked above said don't go this route if you want to hit either of the Arboretums or Aunt Sandy's but otherwise it's a good plan. Still undecided, just was wondering if others had experience doing it that way.

[Baboontyme 2809]

I solved the not wanting to waste a day dilemma by changing our flights and staying another night. Now I need to load the boy up on Dramamine and do some more reading about doing the Road backwards. 

[Damor 1236]

Everything is starting to come together for our late June/early July trip, but I still have stupid questions because... obviously I'm not a golfer.

My older one has expressed wishes to play at Kapalua.  He's not a serious golfer but at least has coordination and can put together about a 5:1 ratio of nice shots to where-the-fuck-did-the-ball-go.  I'm absolutely horrible and would be happy to have that ratio in reverse, but whatever, it's a graduation trip.  I think therefore the Bay course is the better option, both from a cost and frustration perspective.

I see you can book up to 90 days out for the Bay course by paying a premium ($320 vs $280 for a 30d window).  I know things are crazy with revenge travel, but anyone with any experience regarding how difficult it is to get a tee time?

I also saw a recommendation on Reddit for a place called Jimmy's Maui Golf Rentals which would cut the club rental in half, which sounds like a good option.  They also offer discounted green fees, but as a golf ignoramus, is that the kind of thing that's likely to be legit, or risking no availability or a shitty time?

[grazinhorn 472]

On 4/16/2023 at 6:21 PM, Damor said:

Everything is starting to come together for our late June/early July trip, but I still have stupid questions because... obviously I'm not a golfer.

My older one has expressed wishes to play at Kapalua.  He's not a serious golfer but at least has coordination and can put together about a 5:1 ratio of nice shots to where-the-fuck-did-the-ball-go.  I'm absolutely horrible and would be happy to have that ratio in reverse, but whatever, it's a graduation trip.  I think therefore the Bay course is the better option, both from a cost and frustration perspective.

I see you can book up to 90 days out for the Bay course by paying a premium ($320 vs $280 for a 30d window).  I know things are crazy with revenge travel, but anyone with any experience regarding how difficult it is to get a tee time?

I also saw a recommendation on Reddit for a place called Jimmy's Maui Golf Rentals which would cut the club rental in half, which sounds like a good option.  They also offer discounted green fees, but as a golf ignoramus, is that the kind of thing that's likely to be legit, or risking no availability or a shitty time?

I can only speak to the rental aspect - I've had a good experience with them a couple times.  Super convenient delivery , quality clubs, and good savings over renting at a resort/course.  

[Jimbob 419]

For those who love Hawaii but get surly around people and crowds/traffic, Molokai. 
 

Been to all the big 4 several times, Lanai once and making 3rd trip to Molokai in September.  Direct flight from AUS-HNL on Hawaiian, grabbed the good seats for only 4K round trip, adult kids in the back of the bus for 479/ea  

Puddle jump to MKK for 136 so an extra 2,500 to bring the 4 kids is not bad at all.  
 

We stay in the same couple of condos on the SE side, pretty nice waterfront place thats only about 150/night but would be 3x on Maui. 
 

Coffee and sunrise on the lanai then we head to the west side where the beaches are incredible and deserted to hang and watch sunsets. Actually, all the beaches are deserted.   First trip there we saw exactly zero people on the west side.  Last year there were consistently 7 or 8 people on a 3 mile stretch, but only one couple one day at our favorite little spot.  
 

There’s an old resort that was deserted the first time we went, last time a few of the units were occupied and we rented one for 60/night so we would have bathroom/shower and fridge while we hung out, plus no issue using the pool.   Sunsets are pretty great, then head back, stop at hotel Molokai or paddlers for food and a bar, then back to the East side.  Get up and do it again.  
 

Molokai has its own version of the road to Hana, the road to Halawa.  It’s about an hour drive and we didn’t pass a single car the last time we were there.   When we got to Halawa there was a car there and this kid approached us and asks if we are there for the hike to the falls.  We were not, but we chatted for a while while he waited to see if anyone showed up (they didn’t) so we went ahead and made the hike.  Apparently it’s a daily occurrence now and someone from the East side ranch just waits around from 8-9 to see if anyone shows.  
 

There’s not a lot to do if you crave schedules and nightlife.  Theres a few restaurants and bars, almost everything is closed Sunday, but if you like beach bumming and 4x4 excursions with a Gillian’s island feel to things, this is the spot.  Many of the beaches are accessed by jeep trails, and the car rental place has no rules other than bring it back with gas.  
 

 

Sunrise over Maui 

Sunset with Oahu in the distance

our favorite little beach

The 3 mile beach on the west side with its usual crowds

everyone we encountered were great, there’s a slight undercurrent with a few locals though.  They like travelers but don’t like tourists, don’t act like an aggy. 
 

and the obvious…

[927 E. 41st 1124]

I love Hana, but I like to go out there and stay 4-5 days. The hotel out there has changed hands 4-5 times that I know of and I think Hyatt has a hand in it now. But if you drive out there and rent one of their beach houses you won't be sorry. I understand that there are many B+B's that are probably a better deal. Also, the hotel operates a Cessna Caravan from Kahului (OGG) to the Hana airport (HNM). It's something like a 10-12 minute flight. 

If you try and do an out and back in one day you miss a lot and yeah that would kind of be a beating.

Also, Lindbergh's grave is kind of requirement if you hold any level of pilots license.

[Mo Horn 8822]

9 minutes ago, 927 E. 41st said:

Also, Lindbergh's grave is kind of requirement if you hold any level of pilots license

We saw his grave when we were there. No pilot's license, but still cool. 

[DalTxHornFan 3097]

We stayed in a AirBNB yurt on a farm in north Maui, it was a cool place.  All in all, we hated all of the traffic in Maui.  We did Hana and actually took the forbidden southern and western road around the island.  It looked like Texas ranch land mostly.  We had a fun visit at the vineyard that mostly does pineapple wines.  If I was a better golfer, I'm sure that I'd enjoy the great resorts on the western side of the island.

I doubt that we will revisit Maui.  Kauai and Big Island are our favorites.

[grazinhorn 472]

On 4/29/2023 at 12:30 PM, Jimbob said:

For those who love Hawaii but get surly around people and crowds/traffic, Molokai. 
 

I've stayed in what may be the same condos, and the mornings on the lanai were amazing.  Lack of dipshits (tourists) was incredible.  I hope it never changes on Molokai - best of luck to the locals who continue to resist tourism-related development.  If you enjoy a slower pace, don't need to pampered, and can accept being treated as an outsider at times, Molokai can be awesome.

[Baboontyme 2809]

2 weeks out, my house in full remodel with no kitchen and I cannot f'ing wait for this trip. I'm gonna do the Road backwards. I will report back. I think going to do the Haleakala summit for a mid morning or sunset instead of sunrise. 

[Ghost of LL 15531]

Just back from a trip.  We stayed over on the west side, but we did make it up to Haleakala the first morning for the sunrise (the first morning is the time to do it, when your body is still on Central Time). 

On the way down, we hit up the Kula Lodge for breakfast.  We liked it so much, we ended up going back for dinner later in the week.  I highly recommend, particularly for anybody who is a fan of beef wellington.

I gotta tell you--Mama's Fish House was good, but overrated for what it is.

[mdmost 42999]

You had the poi, didn't you?

[gsoda3 3245]

road to hana was my absolute favorite thing we did in maui.  we drove the entire loop right around this time in 2021.  started in lahaina, left at 8am and went clockwise.  i would recommend going clockwise.  you stay on the inner (mountain) side of all the hairpin turns and 90% of the waterfalls / stops you make are on the landbound side.  there's a short, less than 10 mile strip, where the road is not paved on the south side of the island but it's not bad.  we did it in caravan with THREE camrys from the 90s.  (we were paying $400 a day for each of those things too!)  the drive on the southern part of the island is gorgeous- like a martian landscape.  there is an absolutely gorgeous black sand beach on that stretch of the highway no one really knows about either.  we got into kahului around 8pm and ate dinner.  returned to lahaina by 10.  great trip.

[huge 3793]

We did sunset at Haleakala, recommend!

[Ghost of LL 15531]

On 7/19/2023 at 3:21 PM, mdmost said:

You had the poi, didn't you?

Yeah--I have no idea what poi is about.  It doesn't seem to add anything to anything.  It's just a flavorless goop.

[mdmost 42999]

4 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Yeah--I have no idea what poi is about.  It doesn't seem to add anything to anything.  It's just a flavorless goop.

Our waiter forewarned us that it would have no taste but it was a tradition of the restaurant to offer it to guests. So we ate it and then immediately slammed down a drink. I thought it was a great meal but I prefered the Haliimaile General Store more. 

[BonzoMontreaux 1036]

Been to Maui twice. 2009 and 2019.  2009 we squeezed in a lot.  Road to Hana, Old Lahaina Luau, hit several beaches, took surf lessons.  Loved the hell out of the road to Hana.  We had an accompanying CD or App and it was great.  Started off eating at Charlies.  Supposedly Willie's favorite place to eat.  Saw all the falls.  It was June, so probably not as flowing.  I recommended picking up a Frommer's Guide for Maui. There are some cool unknown spots along the way that the FG points out.  Black Sand beach was most memorable.  Water was coooold.  

Rental car...I pulled of a 30-35 dollar a day Toyota Mini-Van rental.  Priceline was the shit back in the day.

The only thing we didn't do was sunrise at Haleakala, but we did that in 2019.  It was foggy at sunrise and raining.  It was still an experience since we were there in the Summer and it was cold up there as well.  We got to stay in the Marriot Resort on Ka'anapali.  Wife and I just chilled there and at the bar and pool.  

[Baboontyme 2809]

Flew in from Phoenix today. Have only been here 6 hours and haven't gone anywhere but the resort grounds and the Honua Kai next door. We are blown away. Kids already calling it their favorite trip. We are simple Midwestern folk but we've had some fun trips. The landscape is just surreal.

[The Gimp 346]

On 8/1/2023 at 2:29 AM, Baboontyme said:

Flew in from Phoenix today. Have only been here 6 hours and haven't gone anywhere but the resort grounds and the Honua Kai next door. We are blown away. Kids already calling it their favorite trip. We are simple Midwestern folk but we've had some fun trips. The landscape is just surreal.

If you're still there, I hope you and your family are OK.

[Baboontyme 2809]

We good. Do not worry about us...but thank you. 

[Baboontyme 2809]

I have a question and my brain hurts so I'm posting it here. Don't want to hijack the other thread. We are flying out tomorrow, connecting overnight in Phoenix before a Delta flight home on Saturday. They had to split us up 3 and 1. Wife will take the kids. She only has an ID. I have I think $150 cash and an Amex. Assuming we won't be able to get our stuff before then what are my options to get her some credit or a safety net for traveling until we can meet up in Phoenix. I will give her the cash obviously.

[SimonBolivar 10957]

3 minutes ago, Baboontyme said:

I have a question and my brain hurts so I'm posting it here. Don't want to hijack the other thread. We are flying out tomorrow, connecting overnight in Phoenix before a Delta flight home on Saturday. They had to split us up 3 and 1. Wife will take the kids. She only has an ID. I have I think $150 cash and an Amex. Assuming we won't be able to get our stuff before then what are my options to get her some credit or a safety net for traveling until we can meet up in Phoenix. I will give her the cash obviously.

Well let's not make any rash decisions here. What if you need the cash and the AMEX?

[msbesq 385]

She has full authority to use your Amex card. Give her your number, expiration date and cvv code. Any banks still operating? If so get as much cash from an ATM.

[Baboontyme 2809]

Cash advance on the Amex you mean? My bank card and 10 other cards are back at the resort. Good to know, I can give her a couple of numbers from cards I have stored on my phone. 

[msbesq 385]

She should be able to get a cash advance from Amex. If you have a platinum card, there is special concierge number on the back. They will help you.

[obigbo 8]

Can you setup Apple Pay or Samsung Pay using the Amex?  Then you could both use it.

[msbesq 385]

Definitely Apple Pay. I don't know about Samsung Pay.

[msbesq 385]

Sign in to your Amex account. Go to Account, then Payment Tools and you can add Apple Pay, not Samsung Pay to your wallet.

[Baboontyme 2809]

Yeah we are an Android fam. She has a Galaxy. Thought about that, it does have NFC. 

[orange dream 1246]

I'm sure things are chaotic there, but is there anybody local or who otherwise has access to cash that you could VENMO some money so they can give you some cash?

 

Dude, good luck.  We stayed at the Honua Kai 5 or 6 years ago.  Glad y'all are safe!!

Edited August 10, 2023 by orange dream

[Baboontyme 2809]

I've got a business platinum on me, they set me up with a one time PIN for a cash advance. Should be good, I will also give her some CC numbers. Thanks surly. On another note remembered my car keys are in my fucking bag at the resort, as well. Booked a ride and guess we will be driving back to DTW on Sunday if I can find my spares! Oh well we are not dead or homeless. Sick to my stomach looking at pictures.