Minneapolis Cop Murders A Black Man

[Fondren & Main 6,732]

22 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Oh, all the time. It was actually in my signature on Hornfans. Glad you noticed, I was laying it on pretty thick. 

Well, at least you're honest.  I can respect that.

I'm still not sure what you're trying to imply though.  I thought it was pretty weak to go for the "that's racist" card. 

It makes me think that you're incapable of critical thought to be honest.  In fact, any time someone immediately defaults to that attack, it makes me think that they are a mindless drone incapable of thinking for themselves.

Also, you didn't answer the question.  BTW, I watched the speech.  It was a fine one.  Doesn't sound like MLK, a man of God, would approve of the behavior on display right now.

"Those who live by the sword, die by the sword."  I expect a lot more people are going to die now as a result of this.

[Fondren & Main 6,732]

3 minutes ago, C-Man said:

In this instance, insurance would kick in -- unlike for the pandemic.

That's fine for the short term; like the $1200 stipend.  What happens in the long term though?

[JBJ 3,664]

24 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Ok so he didn’t asphyxiate but maybe no blood to his brain via the jugular for ten minutes???  

That's probably why ashyxia and strangulation are listed separately.

[Homercles 10,206]

2 minutes ago, JBJ said:

That's probably why ashyxia and strangulation are listed separately.

Guess I didn’t realize or bother to look up the difference.  Thought it was two terms for blocking an airway.  

[Catdaddyhorn 3,447]

38 minutes ago, formermav43 said:

I think it was meeting that violence with persistent non-violence, actually.

The point is that without the violence broadcast on tv nightly to contrast against their protests nothing happens.  The protests didn't suddenly begin out of thin air in the late 50s and 60s. There were demonstrations from the very beginning of the 20th century onward, all or most met with violence. It was the violence of the race riots throughout the north that were the impetus of the FHA redlining housing policies that created the segregation we live with today. Our own Tahoehorn (or whatever his name was) used to unwittingly acknowledge this very fact by noting how it was the bombing of the 4 girls in the Birmingham church who spurred him to take notice.  The early beginnings of this country were sparked by violence and that's the only thing that has consistently exhibited the ability to move our leaders to action.  

[Enchubben 5,510]

 

42 minutes ago, Player said:

Fuck the Hennepin County medical examiner for throwing in that speculative bullshit about "potential intoxicants in his system" contributing to Floyd's death. 

what the hell does potential intoxicants even mean? Is that just those full drug tests haven't come back yet but there were otherwise traces? If not, why include it at all?

[JBJ 3,664]

7 minutes ago, Homercles said:

Guess I didn’t realize or bother to look up the difference.  Thought it was two terms for blocking an airway.  

Strangulation can be ashyxia, compression of the juggler or carotid artery, or doing that karate chop thing at the base of the neck (which actually does do something to the coratid artery that can make you pass out.)

Edited May 29, 2020 by JBJ

[blacklab 11,943]

what about a "pinch on the neck from Mr. Spock"

[AUS-97HORN 11,814]

1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

But if the story is true about the cop was the one starting the shit at Autozone, then that makes this thing go even deeper. The cops are then participating to push the story even further. St Paul came out and said it isn't him but police depts have no credibility to me. 

I am not entirely sure that was a cop who started the Autozone crap, but he clearly wasnt there to protest.  That was one of the weirdest videos Ive ever seen. 

There are the normal (at the time) peaceful protestors, and this guy wearing a full on hazmat facemask, wearing gloves and carrying an opened umbrella around when its clearly not raining, and hasnt been raining, and happens to have a hammer in his hand, and quietly goes about breaking window after window until a protest leader stops him, and once hes on camera he beats a hasty retreat.

So it was obvious the guy was covering as much of his face as possible, he had the umbrella out to keep from being captured easily by a drone picture from above, and the moment he was confronted by multiple people he left.

 

there are only a few reasons to do that

He was either a hired instigator (which could literally be as simple as someone paid him $2,000 to go break windows, or as nefarious as a professional instigator- the kind we keep hearing about during other big protests)

or a representative of the owner of that particular store looking to get an insurance settlement because maybe the business was failing due to covid lockdowns? (which could be explained by my $2k point above)

or he was a cop from another city out to prove that cops matter more than the rest of the population and get a real riot started

or he was something else,  an idiotically alligned malitia member, or some clown who just wanted to break shit, and didnt want to get caught so he watched as much Law & Order as he could the last day and followed the rules about not leaving evidence behind.

It really sucks that no one was able to pull down the fucking mask off his face so it would be seen on camera. 

[formermav43 4,606]

1 minute ago, blacklab said:

what about a "Pinch from the hand of Mr. Spock"

That only temporarily incapacitates you. The Vulcan death grip is a myth, as anyone who has seen "The Enterprise Incident" knows.

[GopherRock 1,765]

46 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

@scottsins

Is there a non nefarious  reason for charging him with third degree murder instead of going for murder one and having the possibility of third degree as a lesser included offense?

hell, you could reduce before trial if the evidence on intent isn’t there?

i don’t practice criminal law and my experience on Crim law is limited to law school classes on criminal law and a death penalty course as well as clerking for a federal judge.  
 

I don’t understand not charging a higher offense.  

In Minnesota 1st degree murder has to come from the grand jury. I'm not a lawyer, but looking at the statue it's a long way to get to murder 1.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.185

Second degree murder statute:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

[GopherRock 1,765]

Curfews tonight in both Minneapolis and St. Paul, 8 PM to 6 AM.

[lockport 55]

Looks like a new video was released from across the street that shows three cops kneeling on him (haven't watched it)

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/29/us/george-floyd-new-video-officers-kneel-trnd/index.html

[Cajun 11,722]

18 hours ago, GopherRock said:

 

That's an MPD squad pepper spraying everyone. 

Yep, they reap what they sew.

Enjoy the ambushes HEROES, they're coming.

[JBJ 3,664]

10 minutes ago, blacklab said:

what about a "pinch on the neck from Mr. Spock"

That only makes your knees start shaking and your fingers pop

[Nicole44 22,072]

Can George Floyd’s family request a second autopsy? Or are they stuck with the Hennepin county ME’s conclusions? I understand that they have legal representation. 
Interestingly enough, Noor was convicted of 3rd degree murder as well. 
 

I am certain I know of a couple of cases where people where convicted of third degree murder and the victim had underlying health conditions. In those cases, the jurors felt that “but for” the defendants actions the victim would still be alive. So their conditions were not an impediment to the jury reaching a guilty verdict. 

[Mango4 189]

4 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

Can George Floyd’s family request a second autopsy? Or are they stuck with the Hennepin county ME’s conclusions? I understand that they have legal representation. 
Interestingly enough, Noor was convicted of 3rd degree murder as well. 
 

I am certain I know of a couple of cases where people where convicted of third degree murder and the victim had underlying health conditions. In those cases, the jurors felt that “but for” the defendants actions the victim would still be alive. So their conditions were not an impediment to the jury reaching a guilty verdict. 

It looks like there will be an independent autopsy.

 

https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/ex-nyc-medical-examiner-to-perform-autopsy-on-george-floyd/

[Nicole44 22,072]

Just now, Mango4 said:

It looks like there will be an independent autopsy.

 

https://nypost.com/2020/05/29/ex-nyc-medical-examiner-to-perform-autopsy-on-george-floyd/

Good. Thanks. 

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

1 minute ago, Nicole44 said:

Good. Thanks. 

Do they really even need one?  A healthy man has a cop put all his weight on a knee to his throat.  And dies.  

[JBJ 3,664]

"Dr. Michael Baden, who previously conducted an independent autopsy of Jeffrey Epstein..."

...not sure how I feel about that.

/nocr

[Nicole44 22,072]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Do they really even need one?  A healthy man has a cop put all his weight on a knee to his throat.  And dies.  

Given the apparent malfeasance happening in this county and the fact that the ME works hand in hand with the DA’s office (not saying the ME is dirty) it would give the family peace of mind. That’s important. 

[SDG 3,319]

8 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Do they really even need one?  A healthy man has a cop put all his weight on a knee to his throat.  And dies.  

You’re a lawyer so you know how this works.  All the defense has to do is create a modicum of doubt and party is over.  

[ChiTownDoc 21,154]

When you have your fucking knee on someone’s neck for 9 minutes asphyxiation is one of about a 100 ways you can die.  
The initial autopsy or whatever the fuck it is means nothing in regards to this asshole’s guilt.  
 

When are they charging the pigs who just watched?  Fuck those assholes too.  

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

5 minutes ago, SDG said:

You’re a lawyer so you know how this works.  All the defense has to do is create a modicum of doubt and party is over.  

I’m just pretty damn sure Floyd’s cause of death isn’t some mystery. 

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13,119]

46 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

Also, you didn't answer the question.  BTW, I watched the speech.  It was a fine one.  Doesn't sound like MLK, a man of God, would approve of the behavior on display right now.

Of course he wouldn’t, but that’s not the point that was trying to be made. 

[gmr548 16,607]

People using this incident as an excuse to steal and vandalize is no better than cops using "resistance" as an excuse to murder.

Really? You genuinely believe taking a cart full of stuff from Target is equal to murder? I'm not even here for an argument, if this isn't a sarcastic statement, I'm genuinely curious as to how you arrive at this conclusion.

[Bozo_Casanova 26,522]

1 hour ago, Fudge Nuggets said:

Rioting over pumpkins pretty much confirms it’s fun place.

They rolled a fucking cop car. Over pumpkins.
 

[SDG 3,319]

4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I’m just pretty damn sure Floyd’s cause of death isn’t some mystery. 

Agree completely which means neither of us would be selected for the jury.   They’re gonna need to dig pretty hard to find an impartial jury for this one...

[immortal13 4,059]

4 hours ago, 'stache said:

Then arrest them for murder. Are you expecting a different response?

I would expect nothing less from you

[Bozo_Casanova 26,522]

1 hour ago, Fondren & Main said:

Well, at least you're honest.  I can respect that.

I'm still not sure what you're trying to imply though.  I thought it was pretty weak to go for the "that's racist" card. 

It makes me think that you're incapable of critical thought to be honest.  In fact, any time someone immediately defaults to that attack, it makes me think that they are a mindless drone incapable of thinking for themselves.

Also, you didn't answer the question.  BTW, I watched the speech.  It was a fine one.  Doesn't sound like MLK, a man of God, would approve of the behavior on display right now.

"Those who live by the sword, die by the sword."  I expect a lot more people are going to die now as a result of this.

I'm not going for the "that's racist" card or calling you anything. Let's try again.

-It's morally defensible to say that looting is despicable, whatever the cause, and that business owners are in the right to defend their interests, and that they deserve protection and respect; and that the police killing a man who posed no danger to them is also despicable. 

-It is not morally defensible to say that police killing a man who posed no danger to them is equivalent to the rioting and looting in protest that follows. 

The first bullet is a foundational idea of non-violent resistance. The second is moral cover deployed by racists to minimize brutality after the fact. 

Does that make sense?
 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[TwiceHorn 31,529]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't know of MN does the "lesser included offense" thing.

They do.  https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.04

Does not appear to be as tricky as Texas, where someone has to ask for a charge to the jury.

[Braff Zacklin 13,650]

3 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

On 5/27/2020 at 8:50 PM, Braff Zacklin said:

People using this incident as an excuse to steal and vandalize is no better than cops using "resistance" as an excuse to murder.

Really? You genuinely believe taking a cart full of stuff from Target is equal to murder? I'm not even here for an argument, if this isn't a sarcastic statement, I'm genuinely curious as to how you arrive at this conclusion.

No, I don't believe the crimes are equal. That was neither stated nor implied, so your question is bad and you should feel bad.

Seriously though, as already explained elsewhere in this thread, I was equating the mentalities behind the crimes. "I don't like what someone said or did, so I'm going to do something heinous because I think I can get away with it."

It would be nice if people took a moment to actually process what someone else wrote rather than rushing in with zingers or mis-categorizations.

[JBJ 3,664]

10 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

They rolled a fucking cop car. Over pumpkins.
 

Were the pumpkins okay?

[SydneyCarton 48,150]

9 minutes ago, SDG said:

Agree completely which means neither of us would be selected for the jury.   They’re gonna need to dig pretty hard to find an impartial jury for this one...

I hope not. I’d lie like a motherfucker to get on that fucking jury. 

Edited May 29, 2020 by SydneyCarton

[Bozo_Casanova 26,522]

32 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Do they really even need one?  A healthy man has a cop put all his weight on a knee to his throat.  And dies.  

Also, @Johnny Sack gets it. Does anyone not get it?

[C-Man 27,254]

57 minutes ago, blacklab said:

what about a "pinch on the neck from Mr. Spock"

Mmmmmm, drop!

[bernorange 8,363]

3 hours ago, Buzzrock said:

Remember that time there were riots and looting for something other than the police killing a black person?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Seattle_WTO_protests

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g20-protests-idUSTRE58N65020090926

 

[Steel Shank 9,430]

Pumpkins. Serious business.

[TwiceHorn 31,529]

1 hour ago, GopherRock said:

In Minnesota 1st degree murder has to come from the grand jury. I'm not a lawyer, but looking at the statue it's a long way to get to murder 1.

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.185

Second degree murder statute:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.19

Yep, first degree murder seems like a stretch.  Second degree does not.  

I, too, am curious why they didn't charge murder 2, because it appears that lesser-included offenses are automatic in MN.

It appears from cursory research that in Minnesota homicide cases, the jury is automatically instructed with the lesser degrees of homicide.  This is unlike Texas, where it must be specifically requested and there must be some evidence to support charging the lesser-included.  This makes it a tactical decision of a fairly high order.  If there is serious thought that the jury may acquit on the charged offense, one or both sides may want to "go for broke" and not give the jury an easier out. Or the defense may want it in hopes of mitigation of penalty.

Edited May 29, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[goatsaag 279]

2 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Get ready folks. This cop is going to walk. At the most, he will get probation and community service. Why do you think he gave zero shits about it on camera for the world to see? He knew he had a lawyer in his pocket that will get him off with ease.Oh, add to add potential intoxicants for shits and giggles. You can't make this shit up.

Literally the next part of that statement is The defendant had his knee on Mr. Floyd's neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds in total. Two minutes and 53 seconds of this was after Mr. Floyd was non-responsive. Police are trained that this type of restraint with a subject in a prone position is inherently dangerous.

That doesn't read like good news for the cop to me.

[gmr548 16,607]

No, I don't believe the crimes are equal. That was neither stated nor implied, so your question is bad and you should feel bad.
Seriously though, as already explained elsewhere in this thread, I was equating the mentalities behind the crimes. "I don't like what someone said or did, so I'm going to do something heinous because I think I can get away with it."
It would be nice if people took a moment to actually process what someone else wrote rather than rushing in with zingers or mis-categorizations.

We can play semantics if you'd like. Why do you think the mentality of "Oh shit they're looting Target, better get in on it," is on the same level as the mentality of "This man I'm choking is telling me he cannot breathe but I'm not going to stop until he's dead?"

[Braff Zacklin 13,650]

1 minute ago, gmr548 said:

We can play semantics if you'd like. Why do you think the mentality of "Oh shit they're looting Target, better get in on it," is on the same level as the mentality of "This man I'm choking is telling me he cannot breathe but I'm not going to stop until he's dead?"

 

I've explained my position. You can twist it however you want, but your condescension is misplaced and misguided.

[Fudge Nuggets 19,211]

20 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Mmmmmm, drop!

Coolin' on the corner on a hot summer's day.

Just me and my posse and MCA.

[strangulation! 1,716]

59 minutes ago, JBJ said:

"Dr. Michael Baden, who previously conducted an independent autopsy of Jeffrey Epstein..."

...not sure how I feel about that.

/nocr

From HBO’s “Autopsy” which was finominle

[Iceman 2,725]

33 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

I would expect nothing less from you

Stache and I disagree on plenty.  He ain't even close to being wrong on that response.

 

Why the shot at him like that?

[JBJ 3,664]

Just now, strangulation! said:

From HBO’s “Autopsy” which was finominle

Username checks out.

[Bone3421 716]

Coolin' on the corner on a hot summer's day.
Just me and my posse and MCA.

Why wasn't MCA in the posse?
No wonder he left the band






To soon?

[Nicole44 22,072]

43 minutes ago, C-Man said:

Mmmmmm, drop!

Nice avatar change! Drained anyone’s energy today?

[Underdog 28,767]

17 minutes ago, strangulation! said:

From HBO’s “Autopsy” which was finominle

Yep.  Watched it all the time, that and Taxi Confessions. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26,522]

46 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

No, I don't believe the crimes are equal. That was neither stated nor implied, so your question is bad and you should feel bad.

Really? You literally said :
 

Quote

People using this incident as an excuse to steal and vandalize is no better than cops using "resistance" as an excuse to murder

Maybe you meant something different, but if I diagram the sentence, you were equating the actors and the acts, not their motives. Now if the educational system failed you and you don't know how to write, that sucks. But that's what you wrote.