Minneapolis Cop Murders A Black Man

[dcar00 13996]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

 

good luck with that.

[Wulaw Horn 18921]

18 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Hey, this is how democracy works.  It's got a mob-rule feel, but so what.  If Minneapolis descends to chaos, it won't affect us at all.  If it somehow works, we can just copy it.

This seems like a fantastically bad idea, I’m glad my cities not doing it, and yet... props to them for seeing what this looks like. If it works awesome- we can all copy it, if it doesn’t no skin off my ass. 

[mdmost 42681]

1 minute ago, Longhorn said:

 

 You might want to have the new ideas considered and vetted before defunding the department. Lots of early retirements and officers quitting to go to other towns/forces starting Monday. Whatever the ideas are, the better be shovel ready.

It's not going to happen quickly. The defunding would take up to a year. 

[Armybrat 40643]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

good luck with that.

Baltimore 2.0?

[Wulaw Horn 18921]

3 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Look at what happened in Baltimore in 2015 when the mayor told the cops to ease up on making arrests.... the murder rate shot up into the 50s per 100,000 and have stayed there since.

Citizens and politicians better be very careful what they are asking for.

That’s my guess as to how it goes down,  it if they want to try it- hats off to them. 

[dcar00 13996]

2 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Look at what happened in Baltimore in 2015 when the mayor told the cops to ease up on making arrests.... the murder rate shot up into the 50s per 100,000 and have stayed there since.

Citizens and politicians better be very careful what they are asking for.

it'll be fine.  once the innocent unarmed murder by cop and use of force complaints go down everyone will settle down.  

the data is obviously already there to show that what they are asking for is completely in line with....wait for it...the SCIENCE!

[Not a cat 5601]

15 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Hey, this is how democracy works.  It's got a mob-rule feel, but so what.  If Minneapolis descends to chaos, it won't affect us at all.  If it somehow works, we can just copy it.

I'm in a second ring suburb of Minneapolis but work downtown, so definitely interested.  I don't see any way this works, but if it does then hats off to them. 

As someone moving in 3 years, it's fascinating to see how this affects property values. My guess- If this is a roaring success, good for both downtown and burbs.  If a moderate failure, bad for downtown, good for burbs.  If a complete disaster, bad for both.

 

[dcar00 13996]

11 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Baltimore 2.0?

ya think?

[utee94 15730]

 

11 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

it'll be fine.  once the innocent unarmed murder by cop and use of force complaints go down everyone will settle down.  

the data is obviously already there to show that what they are asking for is completely in line with....wait for it...the SCIENCE!

Now you've done it!

 

[Telegraph_it 3350]

With something like this I have to ask would Art be for or against it. From there I formulate my opinion. 
 

Good luck Minneapolis. I hope it works well. 

[Braff Zacklin 13359]

Quite possibly the worst overcorrection ever. Hope I'm wrong, though.

[South Austin 51973]

22 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

I'm in a second ring suburb of Minneapolis but work downtown, so definitely interested.  I don't see any way this works, but if it does then hats off to them. 

As someone moving in 3 years, it's fascinating to see how this affects property values. My guess- If this is a roaring success, good for both downtown and burbs.  If a moderate failure, bad for downtown, good for burbs.  If a complete disaster, bad for both.

Once the Minneapolis PD is disbanded you should try to dine-and-dash at a nice restaurant and report back.

[Longhorn 145]

29 minutes ago, mdmost said:

It's not going to happen quickly. The defunding would take up to a year. 

Oh good. I thought a lot of the cops would quit or retire starting tomorrow. Glad to know they will stay in their jobs for another year.

[mdmost 42681]

They can overreact and quit. I doubt the people who are being abused and overpoliced will mind. Maybe MPD will stop having military style weapons that are only used on citizens and not the terrorists they were intended for. Maybe mental health, crisis management, and de-escalation services will be fully funded. There will still be police, they will just be managed in a different fashion. Again, if you don't like it as a cop then you have options. If you are fine with 4 officers being called out for a call about a counterfeit $20 bill that leads to a man's death then I guess doing nothing is fine. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by mdmost

[GabrielsHorn 2142]

It's an interesting methodology, but hopefully it's moreso following Camden, NJ's lead in essentially pressing reset on the entire department and rebuilding it to be much more community-based policing forward with more clear regulations than whatever they currently have. 

[Longhorn 145]

7 minutes ago, mdmost said:

They can overreact and quit. I doubt the people who are being abused and overpoliced will mind. Maybe MPD will stop having military style weapons that are only used on citizens and not the terrorists they were intended for. Maybe mental health, crisis management, and de-escalation services will be fully funded.

I agree. We certainly don’t want to see any overreacting.

[hobbes2702 12767]

10 minutes ago, mdmost said:

They can overreact and quit. I doubt the people who are being abused and overpoliced will mind. Maybe MPD will stop having military style weapons that are only used on citizens and not the terrorists they were intended for. Maybe mental health, crisis management, and de-escalation services will be fully funded. There will still be police, they will just be managed in a different fashion. Again, if you don't like it as a cop then you have options. If you are fine with 4 officers being called out for a call about a counterfeit $20 bill that leads to a man's death then I guess doing nothing is fine. 

I’ve been trying to explain this for three pages. It’s like they think the law enforcement entity is simply going to disappear.

 

[Pato del Muerto 52227]

7 hours ago, Casual Encounter said:

That and they literally are held to a higher standard, with no union to protect them from their wrongdoings. The Coast Guard has been carrying guns and other weapons for how long? How many reports have we seen of CG brutality? The warzone infractions of other branches are in a completely different environment, which has its own psychological causation.

If cops want to be soldiers, they should be held to the UCMJ like soldiers. 

[dcar00 13996]

14 minutes ago, mdmost said:

They can overreact and quit. I doubt the people who are being abused and overpoliced will mind. Maybe MPD will stop having military style weapons that are only used on citizens and not the terrorists they were intended for. Maybe mental health, crisis management, and de-escalation services will be fully funded. There will still be police, they will just be managed in a different fashion. Again, if you don't like it as a cop then you have options. If you are fine with 4 officers being called out for a call about a counterfeit $20 bill that leads to a man's death then I guess doing nothing is fine. 

up until floyds death(which was caused by a knee to the throat) how many deaths were caused by MPD with military style weapons in the last year, 2 years, 5 years?  what is a military style weapon.

[Iceman 2618]

15 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

If cops want to be soldiers, they should be held to the UCMJ like soldiers. 

Lolz.  I do NOT disagree.   That has a ZERO % chance of ever getting passed by the unions.

[Longhorn 145]

34 minutes ago, mdmost said:

If you are fine with 4 officers being called out for a call about a counterfeit $20 bill that leads to a man's death then I guess doing nothing is fine. 

I’m not fine with it. But disbanding the entire police force for what 4 guys did, seems like overreacting to me. 

I read what the city council is recommending. They want to put a lot more cameras up around the city to enforce traffic violations and just generally keep an eye on what the community is doing.  That is a great idea in my opinion. 

[hobbes2702 12767]

2 minutes ago, Longhorn said:

I’m not fine with it. But disbanding the entire police force for what 4 guys did, seems like overreacting to me. 

I read what the city council is recommending. They want to put a lot more cameras up around the city to enforce traffic violations and just generally keep an eye on what the community is doing.  That is a great idea in my opinion. 

You should read up in the MPD then. It isn’t what 4 guys did. It’s what that police department has been doing. It’s truly one of, if not the, worst PDs in the country.

[Genco 3037]

I wonder if Bob Kroll feels like talking to the press now.

[TwiceHorn 31034]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Yep - was just about to post this.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltimore-police-not-noticing-crime-after-freddie-gray-wave-killings-followed/744741002/

The Mayor didn't ask them to ease up, or at least the article doesn't say that, and neither does any other source.  The BPD apparently took it upon itself to ease up, either as a benign response to their negative investigation findings or a kind of malign "take our ball and go home" response.

Aaaand, as usual, correlation does not mean causation.  US crime hotspots all had an unexplained rise in crime in the same timeframe, e.g. Chicago.  Dallas and Houston too.  It's as likely that its a result of civil unrest in Bodymore as anything else.

Edited June 8, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[mdmost 42681]

48 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

up until floyds death(which was caused by a knee to the throat) how many deaths were caused by MPD with military style weapons in the last year, 2 years, 5 years?  what is a military style weapon.

I wasn't referring to deaths. I mean the general warrior style policing that we see now that makes the police even more of an us vs them system. And military style weapons like APCs and mine proof vehicles are what I'm talking about. Their budget is 7 billion dollars. Surely a good portion of that could be moved to efforts that are more beneficial. I'm very interested to see what they come up wtih. 

[Armybrat 40643]

42 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

The Mayor didn't ask them to ease up, or at least the article doesn't say that, and neither does any other source.  The BPD apparently took it upon itself to ease up, either as a benign response to their negative investigation findings or a kind of malign "take our ball and go home" response.

Aaaand, as usual, correlation does not mean causation.  US crime hotspots all had an unexplained rise in crime in the same timeframe, e.g. Chicago.  Dallas and Houston too.  It's as likely that its a result of civil unrest in Bodymore as anything else.

The mayor told the police they would be in trouble if they made arrests that they (the politicians) deemed excessive force was used. I haven’t come across anything that says the mayor objected to the cops backing off.

[Armybrat 40643]

31 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I wasn't referring to deaths. I mean the general warrior style policing that we see now that makes the police even more of an us vs them system. And military style weapons like APCs and mine proof vehicles are what I'm talking about. Their budget is 7 billion dollars. Surely a good portion of that could be moved to efforts that are more beneficial. I'm very interested to see what they come up wtih. 

Agree. The cops are police, not the Army.

[T’Boo Ted Marshall 2721]

I’m not fine with it. But disbanding the entire police force for what 4 guys did, seems like overreacting to me. 
I read what the city council is recommending. They want to put a lot more cameras up around the city to enforce traffic violations and just generally keep an eye on what the community is doing.  That is a great idea in my opinion. 

So it’s a revenue drive. Not surprised.

[hobbes2702 12767]

6 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

The mayor told the police they would be in trouble if they made arrests that they (the politicians) deemed excessive force was used. I haven’t come across anything that says the mayor objected to the cops backing off.

So the mayor told them to do their jobs properly and they got mad and stopped working.

[mdmost 42681]

15 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Agree. The cops are police, not the Army.

Always reminds me of this clip from The Wire. Before anyone says "blah blah Hollywood". The Wire was co-written and created by a former Baltimore cop.

 

Edited June 8, 2020 by mdmost

[Lhorn 4867]

Tossing in a potential addition to current events, Red’s Gun Range was burgled by a couple of dudes Wednesday night and stole 32 firearms.
Another gun range/shop near Love Field in Dallas was also broken into with a loss of 46 firearms.
May not be a problem for a while, as the most common calibers have been sold out almost everywhere since March because of the Corona apocalypse.

It’s gonna be a great time to be in gun sales.

[dcar00 13996]

40 minutes ago, mdmost said:

I wasn't referring to deaths. I mean the general warrior style policing that we see now that makes the police even more of an us vs them system. And military style weapons like APCs and mine proof vehicles are what I'm talking about. Their budget is 7 billion dollars. Surely a good portion of that could be moved to efforts that are more beneficial. I'm very interested to see what they come up wtih. 

sure.  my point is the military style weapons, mine proof vehicles, tactical gear aren't the issue.  If you want to say that the money should be spent elsewhere that is fine. the problem is everyone wants to yell about the weapons and gear cause police killings.  they don't and warrior style policing has been around since the 60's. the 75 year old man was shoved down by a guy with a baton. Its the training not the equipment and the training has been going on for a long time.

I'm guessing 99% of the deaths are a caused by police with handguns, shotguns and rifles.

I am also of the opinion that the national guard needs to be called in much sooner when riots start(or even before).  This might help police be behind the front line in a support role. governors and mayors need to be prepared to accept it because city cops are NOT prepared to quell this level of sustained violence.

 

 

[NeverMarryAStripper 21780]

This should certainly hasten the closure of all bank branches

[Armybrat 40643]

18 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

So the mayor told them to do their jobs properly and they got mad and stopped working.

No, she said for the police to “give protesters space so they could engage in violence”. So the cops did.

But it looks like the city leaders think their police force has been doing a good job backing away from the violators over the past five years and the huge increase in the murder rates are an indication of success?

Edited June 8, 2020 by Armybrat

[dcar00 13996]

14 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

So the mayor told them to do their jobs properly and they got mad and stopped working.

guess what..its a free country.  their superiors should fire them.

[Brisketexan 104217]

Re military weapons, what they do, and the message they send.

We were at today’s march that ended up at the Capitol. It was peaceful, but I can get how the police need to be nearby and prepared for shenanigans. Fine. So what do the DPS troopers look like?

All of them look like they’re kicking back, waiting to clear houses in Fallujah. Body armor, and every one of them had an AR (and some of them looked even larger - couldn’t tel what they were as we passed by) strapped across their chest. WTF? WHY?

I mean, if the crowd got out of hand...they were gonna start throwing 20 round per mag at people? Why weren’t they carrying anything that might be useful? There was one reason for them to look that way: for them to look that way. It was purposeful intimidation, and a clear message of “fuck you, we’re the bosses.”

If they had been in street uniforms, carrying at most a sidearm, they would have looked like....cops. Not an occupying army.

The entire attitude of police, from the ground up, is irreparably broken.

[Armybrat 40643]

5 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

sure.  my point is the military style weapons, mine proof vehicles, tactical gear aren't the issue.  If you want to say that the money should be spent elsewhere that is fine. the problem is everyone wants to yell about the weapons and gear cause police killings.  they don't and warrior style policing has been around since the 60's. the 75 year old man was shoved down by a guy with a baton. Its the training not the equipment and the training has been going on for a long time.

I'm guessing 99% of the deaths are a caused by police with handguns, shotguns and rifles.

I am also of the opinion that the national guard needs to be called in much sooner when riots start(or even before).  This might help police be behind the front line in a support role. governors and mayors need to be prepared to accept it because city cops are NOT prepared to quell this level of sustained violence.

 

 

Yes, but the militarization of the police forces gives the street cops a different attitude than when they were just beat cops.

[Armybrat 40643]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

guess what..its a free country.  their superiors should fire them.

Well, they’ve had five years to do it. What is the hold up? Where does the buck stop?

Edited June 8, 2020 by Armybrat

[dcar00 13996]

Just now, Armybrat said:

Well, they’ve had five years to do it. What is the hold up?

HOLD UP?!  Hey Jim, go get the M1 out of the garage, hurry!

[dcar00 13996]

3 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Yes, but the militarization of the police forces gives the street cops a different attitude than when they were just beat cops.

IMO, its not the attitude is the training.

[Armybrat 40643]

Attitude comes from training..... see the USMC.

[Braff Zacklin 13359]

31 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Always reminds me of this clip from The Wire. Before anyone says "blah blah Hollywood". The Wire was co-written and created by a former Baltimore cop.

 

Great clip. Accurately summarizes the current state of law enforcement (and its greatest problem): trying to be a warriors occupying territories rather than police protecting neighborhoods.

Several days ago, someone here posted a story about a friend who is a cop and doesn't feel safe (sorry, forgot when and which thread). While I sympathize with his plight and hope he finds peace, his mindset is proof that he's in the wrong line of work. If you feel like you are at war, and the general public is the enemy, then law enforcement is not the career for you.

It's not the career for most of us.

Being a cop is no easy gig. You often see the worst of society ... at its worst. Even the routine shit will take its toll, like having to cut down a 12-year-old who hung himself from the bedroom ceiling while the parents are in denial and going apeshit, or arriving at the scene and the husband is nonchalantly having an omelette for breakfast while directing cops to the garage where his wife apparently gassed herself inside the family automobile. Or picking up a rape/domestic abuse victim from the hospital who won't cooperate or press charges and wants to be dropped off at the same residence where it all started.

These sorts of experiences wore down a cop a dated about a decade ago. Her drinking escalated and she became distant from her adolescent son. She also began to hate society as a whole. Fortunately, she quit and found an occupation that better suited her.

Again, law enforcement isn't for everyone. But there are people who can wear the uniform and badge without losing their humanity, and without seeing the world through the "us versus them" lens.

Hopefully, these fine individuals will step up and realize that part of their job is helping weed out those in their ranks who are hurting more than they are helping.

[Wulaw Horn 18921]

2 hours ago, Longhorn said:

I’m not fine with it. But disbanding the entire police force for what 4 guys did, seems like overreacting to me. 

I read what the city council is recommending. They want to put a lot more cameras up around the city to enforce traffic violations and just generally keep an eye on what the community is doing.  That is a great idea in my opinion. 

Boooooooooo.  Boooooooooooo. Fucking boooooooooo. No more cameras. Josh Moore agrees. 

[MissingInAction 24727]

3 hours ago, Pato del Muerto said:

If cops want to be soldiers, they should be held to the UCMJ like soldiers. 

UCMJ ain't nothin to fuck with.

[immortal13 4059]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Re military weapons, what they do, and the message they send.

We were at today’s march that ended up at the Capitol. It was peaceful, but I can get how the police need to be nearby and prepared for shenanigans. Fine. So what do the DPS troopers look like?

All of them look like they’re kicking back, waiting to clear houses in Fallujah. Body armor, and every one of them had an AR (and some of them looked even larger - couldn’t tel what they were as we passed by) strapped across their chest. WTF? WHY?

I mean, if the crowd got out of hand...they were gonna start throwing 20 round per mag at people? Why weren’t they carrying anything that might be useful? There was one reason for them to look that way: for them to look that way. It was purposeful intimidation, and a clear message of “fuck you, we’re the bosses.”

If they had been in street uniforms, carrying at most a sidearm, they would have looked like....cops. Not an occupying army.

The entire attitude of police, from the ground up, is irreparably broken.

Intimidation is exactly what they were doing

[FartingMonk 3606]

Went through an academy course when I was in the military.  Absolutely needs to change the training and the attitude.  They teach that the public is out to harm you.  After I got done with that class I almost felt that way too.  Imagine getting that idea ingrained in your head.

[ChiTownDoc 21049]

On 6/6/2020 at 9:11 PM, mdmost said:

When did the police become MMA fighters?

 

[justhookit 4174]

I move to change thread title to “Minneapolis Cop Murders A Man”. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8791]

Since it sounds like you're on your own there, have you replenished your arsenal?

I don’t own a gun but I’m also 220 miles from Minneapolis so should be good

[Cajun 11666]

16 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Don’t forget....simply ending the war on drugs would get us 80% of the way to solving all of these problems. They wouldn’t need as much money, we wouldn’t need as much jail space, they wouldn’t have probably cause to search everyone and everything....one step, with a thousand benefits.

Problem is that LEOs and their enablers view this as synonymous with abolition.

Cunts