Minneapolis Cop Murders A Black Man

[Brisketexan 104416]

Just now, Gene Parmesan said:

What is the training that weeds out the intelligent?  I'm not doubting you, I'm just ignorant on it.  I absolutely do think that it's a job that by design more likely than not the intelligent probably do other things.

Sorry, wasn't clear.  The hiring criteria do that.

[Gene Parmesan 3989]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Sorry, wasn't clear.  The hiring criteria do that.

What is the hiring criteria?  Are there polices to weed out the higher educated applicants, or do you mean just that higher educated applicants likely can find something better?

Edited June 26, 2020 by Gene Parmesan

[Huckleberry 32682]

7 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

What is the process that weeds out the intelligent?  I'm not doubting you, I'm just ignorant on it.  I absolutely do think that it's a job that by design more likely than not the intelligent probably would rather do other professions.

Police departments have successfully fought in court to be able to reject applicants for having too high an IQ.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Huckleberry

[Brisketexan 104416]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

Multiple police departments have successfully fought in court to be able to reject applicants for having too high an IQ.

^^^ this.  For real.  It's an actual thing.

[Captainant 27265]

1 minute ago, Gene Parmesan said:

What is the hiring criteria?  Are their polices to weed out the higher educated applicants, or do you mean just that higher educated applicants likely can find something better?

There was a court case about it

https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836

[SHOOTER12 8787]

5 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Police departments have successfully fought in court to be able to reject applicants for having too high an IQ.

 

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

^^^ this.  For real.  It's an actual thing.

No shit?

I'm absolutely shocked and up hauled. 

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

One point I have seen made recently is gun in the room.  Every encounter an officer has with a citizen involves a gun (on his belt).  A sometimes bigger and stronger individual is an arms length from a gun which subconsciously escalates the altercation no matter what.  We don't and shouldn't expect the police to be the baddest street fighters in the city.

Possible solutions?

2 cops, gun stays in the car with second officer?  Or if not in a car, the officer engaging the citizen should not wear a gun and his partner can cover him from a distance. 

Edited June 26, 2020 by ChickenSandwich

[SHOOTER12 8787]

5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

There was a court case about it

https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/story?id=95836

Fark, that's, well hell I don't even have the words for what that is.

[gernblansten 3174]

10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

This.  These are the exact same people who regularly file reports, get warrants, and testify based on statements like "based on my years of experience and extensive training," setting them above and apart from the masses.

And then they are completely excused from acting to a higher standard based on all that experience and training when it comes to harming members of the public.

Well, which is it.....are cops super well-trained heroes, who should be given significant credibility and respect for that.....or are they just regular old chickenshits like the lowest common denominator?  Pick one.

IIRC around 25% of cops fire their gun during their career.  I wish it were even lower.  I don't believe cops are "super well-trained" and I'm guessing you don't believe it either.  I believe they are trained.  I believe their training and experience allows them to separate themselves from the masses related to law enforcement activities.  I believe even if "super well-trained", a percentage of cops are going to panic when the trained for event actually occurs in real life. I'm sure our trained, well trained, or super well trained military have a percentage of members who panic when training meets real life.  I'd guess there was someone in your law school class that trained for three years, finished in the top 10, or at least 20% of the class, and failed the bar.  I think it's possible to be trained or well-trained and also be a real life human who feels the physical and mental reactions to a real life stressful event; or, if it makes you feel better, be a "regular old chickenshit like the lowest common denominator" when practice is over and the lights come on.

But, I understand there is a percentage of the population that occupy the extreme ends of any spectrum on topics.  A minor percentage of folks will believe cops can do no wrong.  A minor percent of folks will believe cops are gutless chickenshits.  The majority will fall in the middle and understand their are good cops, bad cops, good cops that make bad decisions, and even bad cops that do good things.

[Brisketexan 104416]

6 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

One point I have seen made recently is gun in the room.  Every encounter an officer has with a citizen involves a gun (on his belt).  A sometimes bigger and stronger individual is an arms length from a gun which subconsciously escalates the altercation no matter what.  We don't and shouldn't expect the police to be the baddest street fighters in the city.

Possible solutions?

2 cops, gun stays in the car with second officer?  Or if not in a car, the officer engaging the citizen should not wear a gun and his partner can cover him from a distance. 

It's a very good point.  I've told the story around here a bunch of times: in college, suspected intruder in our house.  One of the guys tells me to get one of my guns and check it out.  I go check it out, but I don't bring a gun because that turns whatever is happening into a "and a gun was involved" situation.  Unarmed confrontation, kept the whole thing cool and nobody got hurt.

Every encounter with a cop, and every encounter a cop has with a member of the public, is a split-second from becoming a gunfight, solely because one of the participants is obviously armed.

[Gatorubet 30045]

There's been multiple data studies posted in this thread and others that show that the level of training that an PD has doesn't correlate at all with its use of force. Based on the numbers, it always closely correlates (and suggests a causation) with the terms of the police union contract, and how much authority the PD actually has to discipline and fire/prosecute its officers.
Training is all well and good, and important. But we have to take steps that will actually make a difference.

True. The culture of the department is a huge factor. You can show training video to cops - but if they see their rank and buddies rolling their eyes at it, it won’t matter.

[BabaYaga 15200]

3 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

What is the process that weeds out the intelligent?  I'm not doubting you, I'm just ignorant on it.  I absolutely do think that it's a job that by design more likely than not the intelligent probably would rather do other professions.

He's referencing, but not articulating "adverse selection".  We see it in education all the time.  Better qualified candidates are capable of finding higher, more prestigious jobs.  Leaving a lower qualified pool of candidates to choose from.  Coupled with iron-clad unions, neither school boards nor precincts can easily remove bad actors.  It's a shit storm on both fronts.  

On the podcast, JRE is finally forced to admit, that while he wants a "BUDS" type selection process, where are the candidates coming from?  Especially now, when NOBODY wants to be a cop.  They receive a whopping 2 hours of force-management training and handgun qualification training per month.   Often suggested, but not required.  That is beyond pathetic.  When not patrolling/working every minute they need to have the resources for endless, non-stop situational training.  From BJJ, to stress inoculation, to weapons, and crisis mgmt and de-escalation scenarios.  

This entire shit storm is a case study in adverse selection.  Bad cop actors.  Less money.  Less resources.  Leading to less LEs.  Equating to worse candidates.  Leading to worse interactions.  Less security.  Rinse/wash/repeat.  

Edited June 26, 2020 by BabaYaga

[BERT 4336]

On 6/22/2020 at 9:21 PM, Knighthawk said:

Have you ever been shot by a taser in the head?   

 

On 6/23/2020 at 2:20 PM, Johnny Sack said:

Ever have one shot at your head while chasing a fleeing felon?

You ever seen a gown man naked? 

[BabaYaga 15200]

Weren't there a number of earlier GA cases based on the use of a taser constituting "deadly force"?  Not that the LE's don't count it as such, they do - but these were civil trials, I think?  People zapped by the po-po.   

[workswithseed 2027]

3 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

I agree, we need way more training, and not just when they start.  Should be annual.

I think they should have weekly training.

[workswithseed 2027]

29 minutes ago, BERT said:

 

You ever seen a gown man naked? 

If he's wearing a gown, he's not exactly naked.

[BERT 4336]

13 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

If he's wearing a gown, he's not exactly naked.

I'm ashamed of myself

[MissingInAction 24760]

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

If he's wearing a gown, he's not exactly naked.

That's why I wear mine backwards.

[Huckleberry 32682]

2 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

He's referencing, but not articulating "adverse selection".  We see it in education all the time.  Better qualified candidates are capable of finding higher, more prestigious jobs.  Leaving a lower qualified pool of candidates to choose from.  Coupled with iron-clad unions, neither school boards nor precincts can easily remove bad actors.  It's a shit storm on both fronts.  

On the podcast, JRE is finally forced to admit, that while he wants a "BUDS" type selection process, where are the candidates coming from?  Especially now, when NOBODY wants to be a cop.  They receive a whopping 2 hours of force-management training and handgun qualification training per month.   Often suggested, but not required.  That is beyond pathetic.  When not patrolling/working every minute they need to have the resources for endless, non-stop situational training.  From BJJ, to stress inoculation, to weapons, and crisis mgmt and de-escalation scenarios.  

This entire shit storm is a case study in adverse selection.  Bad cop actors.  Less money.  Less resources.  Leading to less LEs.  Equating to worse candidates.  Leading to worse interactions.  Less security.  Rinse/wash/repeat.  

Huh? That's not what adverse selection is. Adverse selection has to do with information asymmetry.

And that's not what I was talking about anyway, as I clarified later. I am specifically talking about how when police departments actually get intellectually competent applicants they fight for the right to reject them because they're too smart. This isn't about highly qualified people not wanting to be officers, although that's a separate issue. This is about police departments intentionally hiring people of average and below intelligence and intentionally rejecting people of higher intelligence.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Huckleberry

[clapclapclap 9000]

Whole Foods is now Whole Wacists:

 

Spoiler

https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/26/protesters-washington-dc-whole-foods-racist-shut-down/

Protesters In DC Claim Whole Foods Is Racist, Call For It To Be Shut Down

A group of protesters surrounded a Whole Foods in Washington, D.C. on Thursday night, accusing it of “[gentrifying] black and brown communities,” according to Daily Caller News Foundation (DCNF) reporters covering the protests.

The DCNF reporters described that protesters were marching through the street and stopped at Whole Foods surrounding the doorway. The leader of the protesters began shouting Whole Foods is responsible for gentrifying black communities and is part of the racist capitalist system.

The DCNF reporters added that shortly afterwards a Whole Foods employee locked the front doors. Police officers were seen inside the store ushering employees down the escalators, possibly to another exit.

The protest was the latest in a series of demonstrations against police brutality following the death of George Floyd.

In a video provided by DCNF reporters, a male voice is heard leading the chants that labeled Whole Foods an institution that “aligns itself in racism” because it “participates in calling the police” on homeless black youth, men and women.

Protesters heard in the video called to shut down businesses or institutions such as Whole Foods that “invest and align” with “the police and ICE.”

The group continued down H Street chanting, “What do we want? Justice! When do we want it? Now!”

Glenn Foster, the founder of The Freedom Neighborhood, appeared to post information Friday about an event to tear down the Abraham Lincoln Emancipation Memorial Statue. 

 

 

[52-80 19062]

4 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Whole Foods is now Whole Wacists:

 

  Hide contents

https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/26/protesters-washington-dc-whole-foods-racist-shut-down/

Protesters In DC Claim Whole Foods Is Racist, Call For It To Be Shut Down

A group of protesters surrounded a Whole Foods in Washington, D.C. on Thursday night, accusing it of “[gentrifying] black and brown communities,” according to Daily Caller News Foundation (DCNF) reporters covering the protests.

The DCNF reporters described that protesters were marching through the street and stopped at Whole Foods surrounding the doorway. The leader of the protesters began shouting Whole Foods is responsible for gentrifying black communities and is part of the racist capitalist system.

The DCNF reporters added that shortly afterwards a Whole Foods employee locked the front doors. Police officers were seen inside the store ushering employees down the escalators, possibly to another exit.

The protest was the latest in a series of demonstrations against police brutality following the death of George Floyd.

In a video provided by DCNF reporters, a male voice is heard leading the chants that labeled Whole Foods an institution that “aligns itself in racism” because it “participates in calling the police” on homeless black youth, men and women.

Protesters heard in the video called to shut down businesses or institutions such as Whole Foods that “invest and align” with “the police and ICE.”

The group continued down H Street chanting, “What do we want? Justice! When do we want it? Now!”

Glenn Foster, the founder of The Freedom Neighborhood, appeared to post information Friday about an event to tear down the Abraham Lincoln Emancipation Memorial Statue. 

 

 

 

this is going to confuse all the beckys who dont know which side to stand on

[ChickenSandwich 9797]

36 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Whole Foods is now Whole Wacists:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://dailycaller.com/2020/06/26/protesters-washington-dc-whole-foods-racist-shut-down/

Protesters In DC Claim Whole Foods Is Racist, Call For It To Be Shut Down

A group of protesters surrounded a Whole Foods in Washington, D.C. on Thursday night, accusing it of “[gentrifying] black and brown communities,” according to Daily Caller News Foundation (DCNF) reporters covering the protests.

The DCNF reporters described that protesters were marching through the street and stopped at Whole Foods surrounding the doorway. The leader of the protesters began shouting Whole Foods is responsible for gentrifying black communities and is part of the racist capitalist system.

The DCNF reporters added that shortly afterwards a Whole Foods employee locked the front doors. Police officers were seen inside the store ushering employees down the escalators, possibly to another exit.

The protest was the latest in a series of demonstrations against police brutality following the death of George Floyd.

In a video provided by DCNF reporters, a male voice is heard leading the chants that labeled Whole Foods an institution that “aligns itself in racism” because it “participates in calling the police” on homeless black youth, men and women.

Protesters heard in the video called to shut down businesses or institutions such as Whole Foods that “invest and align” with “the police and ICE.”

The group continued down H Street chanting, “What do we want? Justice! When do we want it? Now!”

Glenn Foster, the founder of The Freedom Neighborhood, appeared to post information Friday about an event to tear down the Abraham Lincoln Emancipation Memorial Statue. 

 

 

If Whole Foods avoids building in the area they are racist. If they build in the area they are racist. 

[Message Board User 12389]

If they shut down Whole foods, where am I going to get my cucumber juice and $9 strawberries?

[52-80 19062]

17 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

If Whole Foods avoids building in the area they are racist. If they build in the area they are racist. 

Cancel grocery stores

[clapclapclap 9000]

Looks like the majority of Americans do not support the overreactionary mobs...

...at least not yet:

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by clapclapclap

[MillerEP 30319]

https://apple.news/ADrwGgnZ9SRuUd0WHKi5a_Q

From the article:
“Several Minneapolis City Council members who have reportedly received death threats following their calls to defund the police after Floyd's death have been assigned private security details. The details reportedly cost the city $4,500 a day in taxpayer dollars.
According to information obtained by Fox News, the city has spent $63,000 on private security over the last three weeks.
Host Pete Hegseth asked White on Sunday, "Does it rub you the wrong way, the same City Council members who are voting to abolish the police have hired their own private security detail on taxpayer dollars to defend themselves?"

[workswithseed 2027]

As long as rich people can hire guns.

[Ignatius 3994]

I’m 100% on board with taking down Confederate statues and I’ve slowly come around on The Eyes. The Whole Foods thing is stupid....

Edited June 28, 2020 by Ignatius

[GopherRock 1765]

MPD is getting somewhere. 

Didn't Dallas PD do this a few years ago after a rash of excessive force incidents where the badge cam was conveniently broken?

[Genco 3038]

1 hour ago, GopherRock said:

MPD is getting somewhere. 

Didn't Dallas PD do this a few years ago after a rash of excessive force incidents where the badge cam was conveniently broken?

Dallas took the opposite approach. Chief Brown introduced a policy granting a 72 hour cooling off period for the officer and allowing them to review any video footage of a shooting before making a statement.

This was after a neighbor's security camera contradicted a cop's bullshit story about what happened when he shot a mentally ill man. Both officers lied on the arrest affidavit. The surveillance footage made the news, the cop was fired and charged with aggravated assault. But the policy was justified based on a "memory expert" who said cops needed proper rest in order to accurately recall a shooting incident. The memory expert was a law enforcement consultant. 

[Brothahorn 10085]

As long as rich people can hire guns.

I highly doubt they are paying this out of their own pockets. The citizens are paying for their private security as these ass clowns defund the police. Ain’t That A Kick In The Head

[workswithseed 2027]

6 minutes ago, Brothahorn said:

I highly doubt they are paying this out of their own pockets. The citizens are paying for their private security as these ass clowns defund the police. Ain’t That A Kick In The Head

Obviously they're so important, they have to protect themselves on our dime, as they bend the will to the mob to get rid of police.

[DDD Dad 14146]

DDD Dad is bringing up the Minnesota cop in false equivalence, as if anyone here condones that incident. 

If you can’t understand irony I don’t know what to tell you.

[52-80 19062]

13 minutes ago, DDD Dad said:

If you can’t understand irony I don’t know what to tell you.

Is it like rain, on your husband's wedding day?

[DDD Dad 14146]

Is it like rain, on your husband's wedding day?

[BabaYaga 15200]

16 hours ago, Ignatius said:

I’m 100% on board with taking down Confederate statues and I’ve slowly come around on The Eyes. The Whole Foods thing is stupid....

That's because this is just the beginning.  Buckle up.  

[BabaYaga 15200]

On 6/26/2020 at 4:27 PM, Huckleberry said:

Huh? That's not what adverse selection is. Adverse selection has to do with information asymmetry.

And that's not what I was talking about anyway, as I clarified later. I am specifically talking about how when police departments actually get intellectually competent applicants they fight for the right to reject them because they're too smart. This isn't about highly qualified people not wanting to be officers, although that's a separate issue. This is about police departments intentionally hiring people of average and below intelligence and intentionally rejecting people of higher intelligence.

LOL, except that it is.  You can google AS and respond back about asymmetric information, or you can understand the point.  Teachers were referenced first (the same holds true for LE), the point being they are all tied to a uniform and rigid formula based upon experience and years of schooling, factors that researchers have found to be generally unrelated to performance in the classroom.  This uniform pay creates the set of incentives referred to already:  adverse selection.

The most talented teachers and LE are as likely to be good as this job as others, creating strong incentives to leave and pursue higher compensation with incentives tied to productivity.  For the least talented, the incentives are the opposite. 

This is the same with LE.  Time and tenure.  Little else.  Few incentives for superior performance.  Massive incentives to stay the course and plod along....both with rigid unions protecting shitty behavior at every turn.  

Further reduce resources, you exacerbate the problem even more.  The perverse incentives magnify and the law of unintended consequences negatively impacts the population demographics (the poor) that need it the most.  

[WBT 20395]

20 hours ago, 52-80 said:

 

this is going to confuse all the beckys who dont know which side to stand on

Actually I think it will help bring them clarity 

[Huckleberry 32682]

51 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

LOL, except that it is.  You can google AS and respond back about asymmetric information, or you can understand the point.  Teachers were referenced first (the same holds true for LE), the point being they are all tied to a uniform and rigid formula based upon experience and years of schooling, factors that researchers have found to be generally unrelated to performance in the classroom.  This uniform pay creates the set of incentives referred to already:  adverse selection.

The most talented teachers and LE are as likely to be good as this job as others, creating strong incentives to leave and pursue higher compensation with incentives tied to productivity.  For the least talented, the incentives are the opposite. 

This is the same with LE.  Time and tenure.  Little else.  Few incentives for superior performance.  Massive incentives to stay the course and plod along....both with rigid unions protecting shitty behavior at every turn.  

Further reduce resources, you exacerbate the problem even more.  The perverse incentives magnify and the law of unintended consequences negatively impacts the population demographics (the poor) that need it the most.  

Wow, you really like to not know what you're talking about and then dig in.

That is not adverse selection, which, again, is based on one side or possibly both not having the proper information when applying for a job or hiring. You are arguing that everyone knows the rules (rigid formula) and everyone knows the job description, and everyone knows which candidates can find more appealing jobs. That is the exact opposite of adverse selection.

Pick a different buzzword that means what you think it means.

[BabaYaga 15200]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Wow, you really like to not know what you're talking about and then dig in.

That is not adverse selection, which, again, is based on one side or possibly both not having the proper information when applying for a job or hiring. You are arguing that everyone knows the rules (rigid formula) and everyone knows the job description, and everyone knows which candidates can find more appealing jobs. That is the exact opposite of adverse selection.

Pick a different buzzword that means what you think it means.

I will read you the exact quote from Economist Chalres Wheelan (who I am a big fan of) as it relates to public sector employees.  The asymmetry is from the candidates you pedantic fuck.  They know their aptitude.  Their qualifications.  Their market value.   

This, BTW, is from his book "Naked Economics, Undressing the Dismal Science"

"...but I will discuss one striking phenomenon related to incentives in education that I have written about in The Economist.  The pay of American teacher is not linked in any way to performance; teachers unions have consistently opposed any kind of merit pay.  Instead, salaries in nearly every public school district in the country are determined by a formula based on tenure and years of schooling......this uniform pay scale creates a set of incentives that economists refer to as adverse selection"

"Among students who major in education, those with higher test scores are the most likely to leave the profession......but the problem remains.  ANY system that pays all teachers the same provides a strong incentive for the most talented among them to look for work elsewhere"

 

Edited June 29, 2020 by BabaYaga

[clapclapclap 9000]

Frequent protester, previously asked to leave, shoots into Lousiville protest, killing 1.

 

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2020/06/28/louisville-breonna-taylor-protest-shooting-suspect-identified/3274385001/

LOUISVILLE, Ky. — A frequent participant in Louisville's month of protests has been accused of fatally shooting a photographer in Jefferson Square Park after a dispute with another person.

Steven Nelson Lopez, 23, is facing charges of murder and first-degree wanton endangerment, Louisville Metro Police officials said Sunday after releasing his arrest citation.

Lopez is accused of killing Tyler Gerth, a 27-year-old Louisville photographer who had become a vocal supporter of the protests.

At 8:59 p.m. Saturday, MetroSafe Communications reported multiple gunshots being fired in Jefferson Square Park. Arriving officers found one person shot in the face in the middle of the park near a short concrete wall, according to Lopez's arrest citation.

Bystanders return fire, wound accused shooter 

Several witnesses identified Lopez, who had frequented the park, as the shooter. And video surveillance showed him shooting a handgun into the crowd, the citation says...

 

...Lopez has been a frequent sight at the protests, which have rocked the streets of Louisville for a month.

Several Courier Journal reporters have seen him among the crowd in recent days, and a speaker at a Kentucky Alliance Against Racist and Political Repression press conference Sunday morning said he'd been among the crowd for the past 12 days at least.

Court records show he was one of 17 protesters arrested on June 17, and a Courier Journal photographer captured his arrest that day in a photo. He was charged that morning with inciting a riot, disorderly conduct, harassment and possession of drug paraphernalia.

More coverage:Jefferson Square Park shooting victim remembered as a photographer with a 'sense of justice'

Lopez's police record before Saturday's shooting contains minor offenses such as third-degree trespassing and a failure to maintain car insurance.

 

 

[clapclapclap 9000]

The suspect, Steven Nelson Lopez:

This is what can happen when you defund the Fashion Police.

Edited June 29, 2020 by clapclapclap

[BabaYaga 15200]

1 minute ago, BurntEyes said:

Everything you just wrote applies to any state and federal job for the record.

Tenure always trumps ability, success and initiative. In fact, back when I worked for the state I remember being "schooled" about working too hard as it could make others angry because "it makes them look bad".

This was said as a friendly warning from a person who is still a friend so I didn't end up getting left alone in a bad (read violent) situation.

Of course, and exacerbated when combined with scarcity concerns and a negative public sentiment.  You wind up with the worst candidates who have few options to go anywhere else.  The exact opposite of what we need.  

[workswithseed 2027]

28 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Everything you just wrote applies to any state and federal job for the record.

Tenure always trumps ability, success and initiative. In fact, back when I worked for the state I remember being "schooled" about working too hard as it could make others angry because "it makes them look bad".

This was said as a friendly warning from a person who is still a friend so I didn't end up getting left alone in a bad (read violent) situation.

One of my welding teachers told us a story of how he took his weld test pretty quickly, so quick that some of the union guys met him at a bust stop later that day with some tools. They asked if he was going to go that fast at work.which he replied that he was gonna go as fast as the slowest guy.

[52-80 19062]

2 hours ago, clapclapclap said:

The suspect, Steven Nelson Lopez:

This is what can happen when you defund the Fashion Police.

"Fuck you I won't do what you tell me"

[GopherRock 1765]

The four officers made their first appearance in Hennepin County District Court today. A thread:

Interesting stuff. Gag orders and change-of-venue motions abound. First trial currently on the slate for March 2021.

Lou Raguse is a good follow, sounds like he's going to be in the courtroom for as long as this takes. 

[TexasEd 8061]

3 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Everything you just wrote applies to any state and federal job for the record.

Tenure always trumps ability, success and initiative. In fact, back when I worked for the state I remember being "schooled" about working too hard as it could make others angry because "it makes them look bad".

This was said as a friendly warning from a person who is still a friend so I didn't end up getting left alone in a bad (read violent) situation.

To an extent.  The Military has a modified system for officers where you advance on a timetable or get pushed out.

[MillerEP 30319]

48 minutes ago, TexasEd said:

To an extent.  The Military has a modified system for officers where you advance on a timetable or get pushed out.

Same for enlisted.

[Message Board User 12389]

nm

Edited July 1, 2020 by Message Board User

[Message Board User 12389]

Maybe NSFW if your work is extremely strict.