Minneapolis Cop Murders A Black Man

[Vic Mackey 47,107]

3 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I don't think people are saying it verbatim, but when you see people on social media discussing looting but saying nothing about the murder (or some bullshit like "The murder was bad.....but [long rant about looting]), it's placing more importance on the looting than the murder.

I finally had to make a Facebook post about it. Pathetic how the murder in the street is just a minor note to their long winded argument about looting. You don't hear a peep out of them about a murder by a cop but they have so much anger and passion for a store burning or being looted. Wonder why that is???

[immortal13 4,059]

8 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Then hopefully they're cops. 😎

I meant non-cops, and you know that. 

[HRSchenker 2,271]

 

[TwiceHorn 31,517]

7 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I don't think people are saying it verbatim, but when you see people on social media discussing looting but saying nothing about the murder (or some bullshit like "The murder was bad.....but [long rant about looting]), it's placing more importance on the looting than the murder.

This is why I think it's rhetorically important to separate the two.  It's too easy for certain people to justify or ignore the death because of the looting.

[Iceman 2,724]

26 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

I think they are talking about the individual’s portion of their retirement, because a shitload of these cops that murder people seem to magically be able to retire almost on the spot, and walk away with their benefits, while we the taxpayers are left with the bill.

Either way, cops need to be held financially responsible for these murders, because nothing else seems to be working.  If you as a civilian deliberately run down somebody with your car, their family is going to go after every bit of whatever you’re worth.  That’s not even talking about you going to prison for life.  There is a deterrent to keep you from murdering someone   

While we want to shield the police from frivolous lawsuits arising during the course of their normal duties on our behalf (somebody gets popped for speeding or something, wants to sue the cop over it), there needs to be a financial mechanism when they act outside of good faith, instead of fucking over taxpayers.

We need to have that conversation, and have one about the power of their unions - if some American soldier in Afghanistan deliberately murders a civilian, there’s not a union there making sure he will keep his benefits, and somehow bridge him to retirement, or to a job in another branch of the military.  They’ve grown far too powerful, and they automatically rush to the defense of bad cops, and try and frame the narrative   

We are their employers, we pay their fucking salaries, and it’s about time we act like it. And it’s going to require changes at all levels.  We need to vote out those elected officials that enable this to happen as well.  And they are being enabled - by the elected leaders, by their unions, etc.

 

I like the military line of thinking and would go with, "If convicted of a felony, said officer rescinds any claim to current benefits or those in the future.  STFU, do not pass go, and go to jail."

I'm fine with piling on the financial hit, but I would much prefer to go after their liberty, especially if their conviction involves depriving others of theirs.

If you're a negligent supervisor, then you get fired with nothing due past that day and can never work in LE again.

 

Pollyannic, I know... but it's what i think it will take to change things.

[Braff Zacklin 13,643]

11 minutes ago, 'stache said:

I don't think people are saying it, but when you see people on social media discussing looting but saying nothing about the murder (or some bullshit like "The murder was bad.....but [long rant about looting]), it's placing more importance on the looting than the murder.

Oh, my bad. I thought you were referring to comments in this thread.

One thing I will say, as a long-time critic of law enforcement (and our criminal justice system overall), is that participation in threads like this seems to be increasing. A few years back on the other site, the Bernard subforum was practically an echo chamber limited to folks such as Bernard, Derka, Vic, Zepol, Brisket,  Cajun, PilotsError, myself, and some others (apologies to those I left out).

The general sentiment from the rest of the board was that we were radical whackjobs with axes to grind against authority. It seems more and more people are becoming aware of the reality that the entire system is biased and corrupt.

There hasn't been any real change, of course, but at least awareness is up. That's some progress, right?

Edited May 29, 2020 by Braff Zacklin

[Pam Cummings 9,653]

1 hour ago, Fondren & Main said:

Are you saying you wouldn’t defend your business if it was under attack from looters?  Interesting strategy, Cotton.

No, i wouldn't risk my life "defending" a bunch of insured shit. That would be dumb. A business can rebuild, George Floyd can never have his life back.

[Texas_Rocks 346]

Some of those NG rooks sporting the SF high and tight weapons ready look will help things. What a mess.

[immortal13 4,059]

15 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Oh, my bad. I thought you were referring to comments in this thread.

One thing I will say, as a long-time critic of law enforcement (and our criminal justice system overall), is that participation in threads like this seems to be increasing. A few years back on the other site, the Bernard subforum was practically an echo chamber limited to folks such as Bernard, Derka, Vic, Zepol, Brisket,  Cajun, PilotsError, myself, and some others (apologies to those I left out).

The general sentiment from the rest of the board was that we were radical whackjobs with axes to grind against authority. It seems more and more people are becoming aware of the reality that the entire system is biased and corrupt.

There hasn't been any real change, of course, but at least awareness is up. That's some progress, right?

I was right there with y'all. We need to bring back the Bernard subforum 

[Iceman 2,724]

a high and tight is pretty damned standard...and certainly not unique to SF,

 

Just sayin.

[Rimbo 26,033]

I have this strange urge to listen to Rage Against the Machine today. Don't know where that came from.

[immortal13 4,059]

Part of the problem is the police in the country are becoming more and more militarized and their mindset is becoming more and more "us against them"... If there is a quote/unquote war against cops, it's because they fucking caused it. Police departments need to be de-militerized and regulated by the state. This self-governing bullshit is not working and was never going to work. 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by immortal13

[Prepuce of Doom 21,098]

1 minute ago, immortal13 said:

Part of the problem is the police in the counrry are becoming more and more militarized and their mindset is becoming more and more "us against them"... If there is a quote/unquote war against cops, it's because they fucking caused it Police! Police departments need to be de-militerized and regulated by the state. This self-governing bullshit is not working and was never going to work. 

 

Give a man a hammer........give a dimwit an MRAP, etc., etc.

[4th&Five 41,573]

i posted the Rage lyrics here so i'll post the PJ lyrics here too.

[blacklab 11,942]

6 minutes ago, Rimbo said:

I have this strange urge to listen to Rage Against the Machine today. Don't know where that came from.

Had a 30 minute drive yesterday and fired them up.

[Bone3421 716]

 

 

 

Take a 30 minute drive and fire them up.

 

Fuck You, I won't do want you tell me

 

[Bone3421 716]

The murder charged with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter

 

 

 

[Iceman 2,724]

Chauvin in custody.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/minneapolis-police-officer-derek-chauvin-173454594.html

[GopherRock 1,765]

2 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

2 of the 4 cops charged with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter

I only heard in the presser that the killer was in custody, and the investigation is ongoing on the other 3.

[Al_4_ISU 12,475]

43 minutes ago, Braff Zacklin said:

Oh, my bad. I thought you were referring to comments in this thread.

One thing I will say, as a long-time critic of law enforcement (and our criminal justice system overall), is that participation in threads like this seems to be increasing. A few years back on the other site, the Bernard subforum was practically an echo chamber limited to folks such as Bernard, Derka, Vic, Zepol, Brisket,  Cajun, PilotsError, myself, and some others (apologies to those I left out).

The general sentiment from the rest of the board was that we were radical whackjobs with axes to grind against authority. It seems more and more people are becoming aware of the reality that the entire system is biased and corrupt.

There hasn't been any real change, of course, but at least awareness is up. That's some progress, right?

I've been pretty stunned, and greatly pleased, by the amount of hard right Trump fans I saw immediately coming out and calling this murder on social media.  Nothing about an officer's job being difficult.  Nothing about "well, we didn't see everything".  Just straight up calling it for what it is.

The looting has pulled them back a bit, and of course they're super focused on that (and it's hard to blame people for being upset by wanton destruction of property that has nothing to do with the oppressors), but I still haven't seen anyone walk back their disgust of the murder.  Christ, I saw a small town rural Iowa cop on social media TODAY posting about how disgusted he was by the murder and calling for Chauvin's arrest.

I think there's actual progress being made RE the majority of Americans realizing that this is a huge problem.

[burntorangebongos 10,751]

I don't know if this is upthread further but this guy was digging around in Derek Dickwad's background and found out that he has a real estate license and homes in MN and Florida.  How can you be a cop in Minneapolis year round but claim primary residence in Florida? WTF? 

 

[Nicole44 22,072]

Historically, we typically shoot the messenger(s) and disparage their reputation beyond recognition. Then promptly  ignore the messages find reasons to avoid hearing the message. 
 

what is happening is horrendous. Beyond disgusting. Outrage is the proper response. Not a soul I have talked to thinks what happened to George Floyd was anything less than murder. And that His murderer should be charged and arrested. And hopefully, convicted. (Having watched the video twice now I’m struck by how the ex-officer’s hand is in his pocket for virtually the entire time his knee was on Floyd’s neck)
 

it is true that social media has its serious flaws but as many have pointed out without videos like Floyd’s and Arbery’s going viral people can’t avoid the message. 
 

especially now with the covid and being stuck at home or only going to work/home and a few other places. People are forced to see it. Can’t ignore the message: we have a systemic problem with the police. We have a systemic problem with racism and classism. 
 

I just want to help in whatever way I can. I always try to keep an open mind. I can sympathize and empathize and try my best to understand. But I will never truly know what it is like to be a black person in America. Just like most of y’all will never know what it’s like to be a biological female. Doesn’t mean we can find common ground and a meaningful way to make things better for everyone. 

[Bone3421 716]

I only heard in the presser that the killer was in custody, and the investigation is ongoing on the other 3.

I might have misread to fast...but I thought I saw 2 of the 4 in the first paragraph...my bad

[blacklab 11,942]

14 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

 

Fuck You, I won't do want you tell me

 

FUCK YOU MOTHERFUCKER!

[Fondren & Main 6,729]

1 hour ago, 'stache said:

If you think the "looting" is worse than the murder, then yeah, we disagree, and my opinion is that people who think this should stfu.

How about if I think they’re equally despicable?

[Deej 76,877]

17 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Chauvin in custody.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/minneapolis-police-officer-derek-chauvin-173454594.html

Put him out there tonight by himself for riot control and take away his sidearm.

[NeverMarryAStripper 21,919]

4 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

How about if I think they’re equally despicable?

Then you should probably ask yourself if you would  rather have your place of business looted or be murdered

[Fondren & Main 6,729]

1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

The cops do not give a shit about any of the businesses burning. They don't care if the city is burning. Nope. They care about protecting a murderer buddy in his own house. This tells you everything you need to know about the whole "few bad apples" argument people push. Why the fuck are these cops out there? He's not apart of the force anymore, right? He was fired for murder. They stick up and protect their own. Spare me these cops who make social media posts about it. All lip service. Those same losers would be doing this same shit if it was one of their own. Easy to give that lip service when its a cop in another state. They all cover up, protect and enable this behavior. Fuck them.

This is ridiculous.  Something is broken up there.

[Fondren & Main 6,729]

1 minute ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

Then you should probably ask yourself if you would  rather have your place of business looted or be murdered

I choose to carry everywhere I go.  That way I don’t have to choose.  It’s what you call a win/win situation.  Thanks for worrying though.

[Pato del Muerto 52,553]

7 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

How about if I think they’re equally despicable?

I’d prefer to be looted than murdered, so there’s definitely a difference to me. 

[Sandman 3,410]

1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

I finally had to make a Facebook post about it. Pathetic how the murder in the street is just a minor note to their long winded argument about looting. You don't hear a peep out of them about a murder by a cop but they have so much anger and passion for a store burning or being looted. Wonder why that is???

I think it's because we see stories every day about someone getting killed, even killed by police. That's (sadly) not a rare occurrence. It is much more rare to see a large city get fucked up and burned. Every time a killing like this happens, I think shit's gonna pop off but it almost never does. So I'm surprised it's gotten as big as it has this time.

Personally, I think the protesters/mob should storm the police HQ, city hall, mayor's house, etc. before going after Target or Auto Zone. You think the mayor is picking up plug wires or an O2 sensor on his way home? He doesn't care about that shit. But he'd care if his house burned down.

[Fondren & Main 6,729]

Just now, Pato del Muerto said:

I’d prefer to be looted than murdered, so there’s definitely a difference to me. 

Guess I’m not as virtuous as you.  Please forgive me!

[SDG 3,319]

28 minutes ago, Bone3421 said:

The murder charged with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter

 

 

 

Can one of the lawyer types explain this?  I’ve never heard of 3rd degree murder in AZ. 

[G650 14,273]

13 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

How about if I think they’re equally despicable?

Then you are one seriously fucked up individual.

[Iceman 2,724]

10 minutes ago, Deej said:

Put him out there tonight by himself for riot control and take away his sidearm.

Death is too civil.   Yes, really.

 

I'd rather he be looking over his shoulder every day in gen pop.   Long game.

[Player 4,575]

6 minutes ago, Pato del Muerto said:

I’d prefer to be looted than murdered, so there’s definitely a difference to me. 

How would you feel about being merlot'ed?

[SydneyCarton 48,145]

1 minute ago, SDG said:

Can one of the lawyer types explain this?  I’ve never heard of 3rd degree murder in AZ. 

Third-degree murder is a name for a category of murder defined in the laws of three states in the United States, specifically Florida, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania. It was also formerly defined in New Mexico (which once had five degrees of murder) and Wisconsin. Depending on the state, third-degree murder may include felony murder regardless of the underlying felony, felony murder only where the underlying felony is non-violent, or depraved-heart murder. It is punishable by a maximum of 40 years imprisonment in Florida (in the case of a violent career criminal) and Pennsylvania, and 25 years imprisonment in Minnesota.

 

Looks like in this case it is specifically going to be Depraved Heart Murder. Which is basically when indifference towards human life results in death. 

[Iceman 2,724]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

Third-degree murder is a name for a category of murder defined in the laws of three states in the United States, specifically Florida, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania. It was also formerly defined in New Mexico (which once had five degrees of murder) and Wisconsin. Depending on the state, third-degree murder may include felony murder regardless of the underlying felony, felony murder only where the underlying felony is non-violent, or depraved-heart murder. It is punishable by a maximum of 40 years imprisonment in Florida (in the case of a violent career criminal) and Pennsylvania, and 25 years imprisonment in Minnesota.

 

Looks like in this case it is specifically going to be Depraved Heart Murder. Which is basically when indifference towards human life results in death. 

so we're gonna pretend the cop wasn't kneeling on him, or that it did not factor in the death?

As if the same thing would have happened if victim was running on a treadmill at the Y?

[Not a cat 5,675]

Yeah what Sydney said- depraved heart murder.

a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

 

[Nicole44 22,072]

2 minutes ago, SDG said:

Can one of the lawyer types explain this?  I’ve never heard of 3rd degree murder in AZ. 

I have a JD so I will take a shot at it. MN law it means Chauvin didn’t intend to cause the death of George Floyd but that his actions did indeed cause his death. Hence 3rd degree murder. I understand if more evidence comes to light (other videos or testimony etc...) they can upgrade the charges. I’m sure he will bond out in no time and go to one of his other properties and hide until trial. Statutes on 3rd degree murder vary from state to state. Like almost depraved indifference leading to a person’s death/murder.

['stache 21,827]

32 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

How about if I think they’re equally despicable?

If you value property more than (or equal to) human life, that's pretty fucked up.

Edited May 29, 2020 by 'stache

[Fondren & Main 6,729]

1 minute ago, Brian Fantana said:

He's just an internet badass.

Better than being an internet dumbass lol.

[C-Man 27,247]

 

15 minutes ago, Player said:

How would you feel about being merlot'ed?

Perhaps my favorite scene in that incredible movie.

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

Just now, Fondren & Main said:

Better than being an internet dumbass lol.

I aspire to be their king.

[Leeroy Jenkins 2,409]

1 hour ago, Texas_Rocks said:

Some of those NG rooks sporting the SF high and tight weapons ready look will help things. What a mess.

Some of what I have read is that the NG has mostly been tasked with protecting the fire department while they try and fight the multiple fires.  I heard some of that last night while listening to an online scanner.  

[Bozo_Casanova 26,520]

34 minutes ago, Fondren & Main said:

How about if I think they’re equally despicable?

MLK might agree with you if you said they are both despicable. David Duke and Richard Spencer would agree that they are equally despicable.

See the difference there?

Edited May 29, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[JBJ 3,664]

 

 

18 minutes ago, Not a cat said:

Yeah what Sydney said- depraved heart murder.

a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

 

With even less jargon:

1) Person causes the death of another

2) By committing an act

3) dangerous to human life

4) person has knowledge of #3

5) person disregards #3

[Fondren & Main 6,729]

7 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

MLK might agree with you if you said they are both despicable. David Duke and Richard Spencer would agree that they are equally despicable.

See the difference there?

So, what if a small business owner has been deemed non-essential and has just opened up only to see his entire livelihood reduced to ashes and can’t provide for his/her family as a result?  Is it less despicable or equally despicable?  Are the black business owners defending their businesses with guns racist too?  Should they join the KKK too?  I’m just trying to understand the rules.

[Buzzrock 14,936]

Remember that time there were riots and looting for something other than the police killing a black person?

Me neither.

[Incredulity 11,681]

2 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:

Remember that time there were riots and looting for something other than the police killing a black person?

Me neither.

You don't remember November of 2016?