Minneapolis Cop Murders A Black Man

[TexasHooch 5,122]

Well, let's just say that at least he likes his berries black.

[Tex Long 4,383]

All due respect to (almost) all the opinions offered here, but the core issue is NOT black versus white, it's rich versus poor.

Police are low-level, first line (domestically speaking) military personnel - that is, they are not "being militarized", they're already military - they're being more heavily armed. Recruitment of psycho-/socio-pathic people is not accidental, and training those to act and react like Chauvin and Guyger (among so many other examples) is absolutely intentional. 

Be clear: not all cops are "bad". Some - I think a small portion, perhaps 1 of 20 - are, but at least the same portion are "good". The rest are pure followers who will support whichever of the others are actually in charge.

When Martin Luther King realized the true nature of the adversarial behavior, he was murdered within a year.

[Brisketexan 105,091]

12 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Even if it’s not him, and we all look alike, it still begs the question as to what the fuck that nasty looking shit is in his hand.

It appears that it is NOT him.  Come on, people.  It's sloppy as shit to share crap like this, and it only hurts the real story.  The real story is bad enough.  We should take the time to verify this shit before disseminating it.

[Poe It Up 126]

Who gives a shit who he voted for? Stop the Cheri Oteri routine and put your red or blue pompoms down. Fuck me. 
 

Anyway, I’m quite sure that it’s not applicable here, but I’ve previously read that police officers have nearly the same rates of PTSD as the military. Putting your life on the line every day has to take its toll on your mental health, I wonder how effective are they at identifying this issue? 
 

 

[Brisketexan 105,091]

2 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Who gives a shit who he voted for? Stop the Cheri Oteri routine and put your red or blue pompoms down. Fuck me. 
 

Anyway, I’m quite sure that it’s not applicable here, but I’ve previously read that police officers have nearly the same rates of PTSD as the military. Putting your life on the line every day has to take its toll on your mental health, I wonder how effective are they at identifying this issue? 
 

 

I also wonder how much of that PTSD is self-inflicted.

Talking to citizens on the street shouldn't cause stress.

Talking to citizens on the street when you and your peers have convinced yourselves that every one of them is a split second away from killing you, well, that can be stressful.  It's built on an insane, largely false narrative, but psychology is what it is, and that would be stressful.

[Zepol87 9,185]

21 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Even if it’s not him, and we all look alike, it still begs the question as to what the fuck that nasty looking shit is in his hand.

At first I thought he took dip out of his mouth or something, I am no longer drunk so it looks like a blackberry now

 

[lemonlime 5,503]

6 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Who gives a shit who he voted for? Stop the Cheri Oteri routine and put your red or blue pompoms down. Fuck me. 
 

Anyway, I’m quite sure that it’s not applicable here, but I’ve previously read that police officers have nearly the same rates of PTSD as the military. Putting your life on the line every day has to take its toll on your mental health, I wonder how effective are they at identifying this issue? 
 

 

You really think the fact that they voted for someone who said this is completely irrelevant to police brutality?

“When you guys put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head, you know, the way you put their hand over?” Trump said, miming the physical motion of an officer shielding a suspect’s head to keep it from bumping against the squad car.

“Like, don’t hit their head, and they just killed somebody — don’t hit their head,” Trump continued. “I said, you can take the hand away, okay?”

[Captainant 27,644]

9 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Who gives a shit who he voted for? Stop the Cheri Oteri routine and put your red or blue pompoms down. Fuck me. 

I'd say the "Make Whites Great Again" speaks more to the possibility of prosecuting this as a hate crime moreso than caring about who he voted for.

But it is worth noting that he's literally been elevated and praised at a political rally as a police representative by the chief executive. Not going to do himself any favors for prosecutors discretion, since their hand will be forced (hopefully) to ignore the thin blue line that protects murders with badges

[Not a cat 5,652]

27 minutes ago, Kermit said:

Even if it’s not him, and we all look alike, it still begs the question as to what the fuck that nasty looking shit is in his hand.

Looks like a blackberry.  

[Poe It Up 126]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I also wonder how much of that PTSD is self-inflicted.

Talking to citizens on the street shouldn't cause stress.

Talking to citizens on the street when you and your peers have convinced yourselves that every one of them is a split second away from killing you, well, that can be stressful.  It's built on an insane, largely false narrative, but psychology is what it is, and that would be stressful.

Like any anything else, it depends on the situation. If you’re called to an incident and your guard isn’t up, you’re in the wrong profession. 

[Poe It Up 126]

9 minutes ago, lemonlime said:

You really think the fact that they voted for someone who said this is completely irrelevant to police brutality?

“When you guys put somebody in the car and you’re protecting their head, you know, the way you put their hand over?” Trump said, miming the physical motion of an officer shielding a suspect’s head to keep it from bumping against the squad car.

“Like, don’t hit their head, and they just killed somebody — don’t hit their head,” Trump continued. “I said, you can take the hand away, okay?”

Yes Cheri, it’s irrelevant. You’re team blue, we get it. 

[TexasHooch 5,122]

Trauma is a huge factor, which is only worsened by the macho culture that says they're somehow unfit if affected by it.

No, routine conversations with citizens should not be stressful, but being 1st on scene to an active domestic assault is- more so when they both turn on you. Being a first responder to drug overdose to find a baby crying in the corner is. The daily deluge of general negativity has a weight to it too.

I'm not saying that this cop is just a good guy, spoiled by trauma, but to characterize the role of law enforcement to that of a glorified census taker knocking on doors is disingenuous.

['stache 21,801]

1 hour ago, NeverMarryAStripper said:

The only way to reduce incidents like these is to ensure that there is punishment.  The only way to ensure that there is punishment is to take the punishment/review out of the hands of the police and DA. Every shooting and excessive force claim needs to be reviewed by a completely independent civilian board with the power to suspend, fire and recommend prosecution. All prosecutions should be handled by a office that is completely independent of the district attorney.

The republican mayor of Tulsa tried to create an "Office of the Independent Monitor" which was going to provide some of this outside review you're talking about, but wouldn't go nearly as far as the DA's power to prosecute or not prosecute. It really was just a board of appointed city leaders to review and make recommendations from the outside. It was a way to try and start reconciliation with a community still reeling over Terrance Crutcher's murder. It was rolling along okay, then when it became more solidified and reached city council, the FOP and the maga crowd went ballistic. Everything from "soft on crime" to straight up racist rants including the n-word. The mayor, who I generally like and support, backed down like a sad puppy. 

I'll say it again. This will never change. Too few people are directly affected. Too few people have any empathy for "them," because you know the ones who are killed are criminals anyway. It truly is hopeless.

Edited May 27, 2020 by 'stache

[Brisketexan 105,091]

9 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Like any anything else, it depends on the situation. If you’re called to an incident and your guard isn’t up, you’re in the wrong profession. 

And if you let having "your guard up" turn into abject fear for your life at every interaction with another human being, you've really fucked yourself up.

Shit, I'm a guy with decent situational awareness.  We've traveled to places that relatives warn us are "high value terrorism targets" (think European streets and subways, etc.).  So, my family and I all talk about the fact that let's just be aware of things that might look out of place, a backpack left on the ground, that sort of thing.  Some heightened awareness, but not stressful at all. 

Compare that to the self-inflicted narrative that cops shout over and over - "WAR ON COPS!"  "JUST WANT TO MAKE IT HOME ALIVE!"  If that's the way you approach the world, then no shit you're gonna have PTSD.  It may be based on utter bullshit (seriously...the guys I know who work on farms and ranches have a much higher likelihood of suffering death or serious injury, and they don't spend every waking second in fear), but once you make it your mental reality, them's the consequences.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Brisketexan

[Grandioso 2,592]

Hahaha. Where my lawyers at? The guy in the photo is the world's greatest pleading artist JL Riches.

 

[Vic Mackey 47,014]

49 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Again, I want verification that these are actually photos of that cop (the Trump rally picture, etc.).  I don't want to bite on it without verification.

His face looks much thinner in the pic on the right. Noses look similar but that's about it. Too many times in these instances people run with shit that is false and it goes viral. I don't think that is him.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Vic Mackey

[Brisketexan 105,091]

Just now, Vic Mackey said:

His face looks much thinner in the pic on the right. Noses look similar but that's about it. Too many times in these instances people run with shit that is false and it goes viral.

Looks like it's confirmed that it's NOT him.  So, lazy and sloppy and counterproductive bullshit.

[Vic Mackey 47,014]

4 minutes ago, Grandioso said:

Hahaha. Where my lawyers at? The guy in the photo is the world's greatest pleading artist JL Riches.

 

No surprise. Did not look like him. Do people actually verify this shit before running with it? 

[Brisketexan 105,091]

Just now, Vic Mackey said:

No surprise. Did not look like him. Do people actually verify this shit before running with it? 

Do you even humanity in 2020, bro?  We don't verify shit.  I know that for sure -- the lizard people under the Denver Airport told me.

[Hpara759 1,778]

5 minutes ago, Grandioso said:

Hahaha. Where my lawyers at? The guy in the photo is the world's greatest pleading artist JL Riches.

 

cap is photo shopped....either that or a terrible embroidery job  ( not centered and to high off the bill)

[MAUFRAIS 6,622]

Even if it’s not him, and we all look alike, it still begs the question as to what the fuck that nasty looking shit is in his hand.

Don’t use “begs the question”

[Vic Mackey 47,014]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Looks like it's confirmed that it's NOT him.  So, lazy and sloppy and counterproductive bullshit.

They did the same thing with this guy. He made a comment about this story in the comments section and it went viral. And the internet detectives found some business called Baker Lawns which did landscape work. They instructed the rest of the internet to blast this company on their Facebook page with reviews trashing it. They thought he worked there. He didn't. They have zero connection to him and they are in an entirely different state. So the person who runs this company and page now has to play damage control and delete everything and probably make some sort of statement. This seemingly happens too often. People run with something and no one verifies at all until the damage is done. And no one gives a shit who did it. They are just like "oops my bad lulz"" and move on. 

 

[TwiceHorn 31,444]

Social media just sucks ass.

[Poe It Up 126]

11 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And if you let having "your guard up" turn into abject fear for your life at every interaction with another human being, you've really fucked yourself up.

Shit, I'm a guy with decent situational awareness.  We've traveled to places that relatives warn us are "high value terrorism targets" (think European streets and subways, etc.).  So, my family and I all talk about the fact that let's just be aware of things that might look out of place, a backpack left on the ground, that sort of thing.  Some heightened awareness, but not stressful at all. 

Compare that to the self-inflicted narrative that cops shout over and over - "WAR ON COPS!"  "JUST WANT TO MAKE IT HOME ALIVE!"  If that's the way you approach the world, then no shit you're gonna have PTSD.  It may be based on utter bullshit (seriously...the guys I know who work on farms and ranches have a much higher likelihood of suffering death or serious injury, and they don't spend every waking second in fear), but once you make it your mental reality, them's the consequences.

Well, there are more reasons that cops suffer from PTSD than just self-induced paranoia. For instance, a friend of mine that is a local cop was called to a residence where an 8 year old was shot in the back of his head by his mom while watching cartoons. They see some really horrific shit on the job besides the usual risks of death or injury. So downplaying the risks may help some, but there are responsibilities that come with the job that can’t be avoided.

Honestly, my point was wondering how effective they are at culling those that are suffering from PTSD, since some estimates claim that nearly 15% of officers suffer from it. 

[Kermit 3,156]

9 minutes ago, MAUFRAIS said:

 

Don’t use “begs the question”

 

If you’re gearing up to give a lecture on rhetoric and logic, I really don’t care.

[MAUFRAIS 6,622]

If you’re gearing up to give a lecture on rhetoric and logic, I really don’t care.

If you really didn’t care, wouldn’t you just not reply at all?

[TexasHooch 5,122]

And if you let having "your guard up" turn into abject fear for your life at every interaction with another human being, you've really fucked yourself up.
Shit, I'm a guy with decent situational awareness.  We've traveled to places that relatives warn us are "high value terrorism targets" (think European streets and subways, etc.).  So, my family and I all talk about the fact that let's just be aware of things that might look out of place, a backpack left on the ground, that sort of thing.  Some heightened awareness, but not stressful at all. 
Compare that to the self-inflicted narrative that cops shout over and over - "WAR ON COPS!"  "JUST WANT TO MAKE IT HOME ALIVE!"  If that's the way you approach the world, then no shit you're gonna have PTSD.  It may be based on utter bullshit (seriously...the guys I know who work on farms and ranches have a much higher likelihood of suffering death or serious injury, and they don't spend every waking second in fear), but once you make it your mental reality, them's the consequences.

What you're describing is commonly known as Fear Based Policing, and it's based on a fairly recent training movement within law enforcement to stress a constantly vigilant "it can turn on a dime" mentality.

Officers would go to training and every example they see and read ends poorly. They go to live scenario drills and every role play is designed to end in force.

It's a philosophy that has been widely recognized as irrational, unsustainable, and detrimental to officers, but the mentality and poor training persists.

All that said, there's still a whole lot of real trauma to go along with the unintentional consequences fear based training.

[purplepride95 6,890]

https://www.facebook.com/emery.varrieii/posts/10163311267510276

Its getting crazy when Denzel has to pull over and de-escalate police interaction. 

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by purplepride95

[TexasHooch 5,122]

Here's an article on fear based police training. Interestingly, it's a story about Minneapolis banning it just a year ago.
https://nextcity.org/daily/entry/minneapolis-bans-warrior-style-training-for-police-officers

[Brisketexan 105,091]

13 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Well, there are more reasons that cops suffer from PTSD than just self-induced paranoia. For instance, a friend of mine that is a local cop was called to a residence where an 8 year old was shot in the back of his head by his mom while watching cartoons. They see some really horrific shit on the job besides the usual risks of death or injury. So downplaying the risks may help some, but there are responsibilities that come with the job that can’t be avoided.

Honestly, my point was wondering how effective they are at culling those that are suffering from PTSD, since some estimates claim that nearly 15% of officers suffer from it. 

And I have ACTUAL law-enforcement related PTSD (seriously, it popped into my head last night and wouldn't let me sleep) from the cops beating the shit out of my dad, jailing him, and not even letting us know that had happened so we thought he was dead.  That actually fucking happened.  So fuck them.  Zero sympathy from me.  If they can't hack the job without taking it out on innocent people, fucking quit.

[Kermit 3,156]

7 minutes ago, MAUFRAIS said:

 

If you really didn’t care, wouldn’t you just not reply at all?

 

But then how would you know that I didn’t care?

[purplepride95 6,890]

Before we get the nobody cares about black on black crime. Here is the victim trying to be a voice.

 

 

[MAUFRAIS 6,622]

But then how would you know that I didn’t care?

Seems like you wanted to show that you knew the proper use of the phrase before you said you didn’t care.

[purplepride95 6,890]

Here is a verse of him SUC

 

[Zepol87 9,185]

21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And I have ACTUAL law-enforcement related PTSD (seriously, it popped into my head last night and wouldn't let me sleep) from the cops beating the shit out of my dad, jailing him, and not even letting us know that had happened so we thought he was dead.  That actually fucking happened.  So fuck them.  Zero sympathy from me.  If they can't hack the job without taking it out on innocent people, fucking quit.

Yep fuck em, saw my grandpa get thrown on the ground and had a cop point a gun to the back to his head for coming out of his house with a flashlight and a shotgun when cops were out in a field right outside the yard looking for someone. 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Zepol87

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Fuck cops. Nothing more than armed gangs. The only good cop is the one with the balls to stop and/or rat out the bad ones. Fuck em.

[Poe It Up 126]

13 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And I have ACTUAL law-enforcement related PTSD (seriously, it popped into my head last night and wouldn't let me sleep) from the cops beating the shit out of my dad, jailing him, and not even letting us know that had happened so we thought he was dead.  That actually fucking happened.  So fuck them.  Zero sympathy from me.  If they can't hack the job without taking it out on innocent people, fucking quit.

Well, PTSD is no joke and I hope you get the help you need. My buddy has been in counseling for years, but he’s still not quite the same. I have friends and family on the force, so I’m naturally more sympathetic to their struggles. 

[Brisketexan 105,091]

Just now, Poe It Up said:

Well, PTSD is no joke and I hope you get the help you need. My buddy has been in counseling for years, but he’s still not quite the same. I have friends and family on the force, so I’m naturally more sympathetic to their struggles. 

I'm not.  I've been acquaintances with cops -- have hunted with them etc. back in my younger days.  Heard 'em drop the N-bomb with no hesitation.  And you and I both know that every one of them will cover for a bad one doing bad shit right in front of them.  When you choose to be a pit of rot and decay, you reap what you sow.

[Grandioso 2,592]

How fucking handy would it be if we had some sort of futuristic unbeatable test that screens for 1) racism and 2) pro-authoritarianism? (Think Blade Runner or the Watchmen series on HBO). Just shut down those fucking candidates before they even write their name on the application.

[Grandioso 2,592]

[Poe It Up 126]

19 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm not.  I've been acquaintances with cops -- have hunted with them etc. back in my younger days.  Heard 'em drop the N-bomb with no hesitation.  And you and I both know that every one of them will cover for a bad one doing bad shit right in front of them.  When you choose to be a pit of rot and decay, you reap what you sow.

Interesting. We’ve had very different experiences. 

[Captainant 27,644]

4 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Interesting. We’ve had very different experiences. 

If you have family in law enforcement, you have the benefit of the thin blue line

[Brisketexan 105,091]

3 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

Interesting. We’ve had very different experiences. 

That's because the same people can be two different ways, depending on the context and audience.

Some of those guys were great to hunt with, made a great goose stew, looked out for me because they decided I was a good kid, that sort of stuff.  Those same people would drop an N bomb in the context of their job, and I don't doubt that they whooped up on some folks they thought got too mouthy.

Plenty of Nazis were devoted parents, bounced kids on their knee and told sweet bedtime stories.  Realizing that those men you experienced as good and decent are also capable of great horrors is one of the shittiest of wakeup calls in life.

[Poe It Up 126]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

That's because the same people can be two different ways, depending on the context and audience.

Some of those guys were great to hunt with, made a great goose stew, looked out for me because they decided I was a good kid, that sort of stuff.  Those same people would drop an N bomb in the context of their job, and I don't doubt that they whooped up on some folks they thought got too mouthy.

Plenty of Nazis were devoted parents, bounced kids on their knee and told sweet bedtime stories.  Realizing that those men you experienced as good and decent are also capable of great horrors is one of the shittiest of wakeup calls in life.

I know these individuals pretty well, so I’m just going to disagree with you here. I’m sorry you’ve had such bad experiences, but that just hasn’t been the case with me. 

[Pato del Muerto 52,488]

2 hours ago, TexasHooch said:

Well, let's just say that at least he likes his berries black.

He likes his berries as he likes his dead perps. The darker the better. 

[Brisketexan 105,091]

Just now, Poe It Up said:

I know these individuals pretty well, so I’m just going to disagree with you here. I’m sorry you’ve had such bad experiences, but that just hasn’t been the case with me. 

Yes.  Clearly, all the cops who do bad things are also obviously bad people in their private lives, and you can see it coming a mile a way.

OR.....ordinary men are capable of significant evil in a different context.  I'ma go with the literal stacks of history books that tell us this is the case.  The fact that they've treated you with kindness and decency means -- for the purposes of this subject matter -- absolutely nothing.  In FACT, because you are "under their protection," they probably treat you even better than normal human interactions go.  Step outside yourself. 

Realize that every cop that does the shit we see is someone's dad, husband, whatever.

Shit, realize that every time we read a story about shitty gangbanger X, who went out and shot two people over a $20 drug deal, has a mom who shows up on TV saying "he was a good kid."  And around her....he probably was.  Same kid.  Two different approaches to the world.  Just because he hugged his mom and helped her do the dishes doesn't mean he didn't murder those two people.

The sooner you acknowledge the fact that your beloved family-member cops are almost certainly like all the rest of them: either dirty, or 100% willing to cover for the dirty ones, the sooner you'll start to see reality.

[Poe It Up 126]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes.  Clearly, all the cops who do bad things are also obviously bad people in their private lives, and you can see it coming a mile a way.

OR.....ordinary men are capable of significant evil in a different context.  I'ma go with the literal stacks of history books that tell us this is the case.  The fact that they've treated you with kindness and decency means -- for the purposes of this subject matter -- absolutely nothing.  In FACT, because you are "under their protection," they probably treat you even better than normal human interactions go.  Step outside yourself. 

Realize that every cop that does the shit we see is someone's dad, husband, whatever.

Shit, realize that every time we read a story about shitty gangbanger X, who went out and shot two people over a $20 drug deal, has a mom who shows up on TV saying "he was a good kid."  And around her....he probably was.  Same kid.  Two different approaches to the world.  Just because he hugged his mom and helped her do the dishes doesn't mean he didn't murder those two people.

The sooner you acknowledge the fact that your beloved family-member cops are almost certainly like all the rest of them: either dirty, or 100% willing to cover for the dirty ones, the sooner you'll start to see reality.

That’s not a fact and I’m not acknowledging such nonsense. I’m sincerely not trying to be a dick, but I think your emotions are getting the best of you here. I’m rooting for you to get the counseling you need to tackle this issue, you definitely have a lot to sort through. 

[bad_teammate 13,193]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

OR.....ordinary men are capable of significant evil in a different context.  I'ma go with the literal stacks of history books that tell us this is the case.  The fact that they've treated you with kindness and decency means -- for the purposes of this subject matter -- absolutely nothing.  In FACT, because you are "under their protection," they probably treat you even better than normal human interactions go.  Step outside yourself. 

I can't believe people don't understand this.

BIL is a cop. He's a wonderful guy. Great father and husband. Fun, silly, great with kids. It was an open joke many moons ago among my brothers that our lives would dump us for him in a heartbeat if he asked.

Found out later that a partner had been beating/stalking his ex-wife. Was eventually arrested for threatening to kill the ex-wife's boyfriend and hanging out outside the guy's apartment complex drunk. BIL knew about it all the whole time, and had wanted to "help" his partner by keeping it quiet. BIL didn't face a second of exposure or punishment and is still a wonderful father to this day.

Cops spend all day around each other. They see awful shit together. They deal with extremely difficult things together. They are going to cover for each other.

We should be angry at the individual cops and those who cover, but it's pointless if we don't look at the structural issues that create this problem. Poverty, undemocratic representation, and militarization are all the things we can change a policy level.

[The_Great_Hornsby 3,236]

1 hour ago, Poe It Up said:

Well, there are more reasons that cops suffer from PTSD than just self-induced paranoia. For instance, a friend of mine that is a local cop was called to a residence where an 8 year old was shot in the back of his head by his mom while watching cartoons. They see some really horrific shit on the job besides the usual risks of death or injury. So downplaying the risks may help some, but there are responsibilities that come with the job that can’t be avoided.

Honestly, my point was wondering how effective they are at culling those that are suffering from PTSD, since some estimates claim that nearly 15% of officers suffer from it. 

15% seems really, really low

[Captainant 27,644]

7 minutes ago, Poe It Up said:

That’s not a fact and I’m not acknowledging such nonsense. I’m sincerely not trying to be a dick, but I think your emotions are getting the best of you here. I’m rooting for you to get the counseling you need to tackle this issue, you definitely have a lot to sort through. 

This is a lazy and shitty response in light of the ongoing and persistent police brutality in the US. You're choosing to ignore reality in favor of your rose-colored reality that cops (as an institution) give a flying fuck about the wellbeing of citizens and are uniformly "good". 

One "bad cop" does a bad thing and is seen by a hundred "good cops". "Good cops" let it slide/cover for the "bad cop". You now have 101 bad cops.