Minneapolis Cop Murders A Black Man

[Guest Lobo]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

I don't bring it in....it just shows up on its own.

Well that, sir...is just a bridge too far.  I won't allow it.  

[Bruh Man 3160]

 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Bruh Man

[dcar00 14974]

2 hours ago, Lobo said:

You just made the list, pal!  

Yeah sorry, I've just seen many folks get suspended/negged for bringing up Cuomo on threads.  Which sucks, because if we can't comment on the most heavily affected state with Covid-19, what the hell can we talk about?  I digress.  It is beyond surreal how Coronavirus went to the backpage so quickly in the last week+  

Its not surreal or surprising at all.

[LABEVO 928]

 

[Homercles 10206]

6 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

 

 

“I’m not racist, you’re racist!  Also you’re Japanese, do you know your history??!!”  

[Guest Lobo]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Its not surreal or surprising at all.

Surreal is, by its very definition, a subjective quality left to the individual creating or experiencing.  So yeah, the shift in news is surreal to Me.  It may however, been perfectly expected by you.  In which case, I must ask you...what else that's coming for us in 2020 do you see as rationally expected?  Because I'd like to prepare my anus accordingly.  

[LABEVO 928]

 

[Message Board User 12406]

4 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

Its not surreal or surprising at all.

No kidding.  It's an exceptional abdication by the medical profession, which has told us that we can't have an 11th person at a funeral, that jobs and businesses must go belly up, and graduations must be canceled because of the risk of spreading the deadly disease to the most vulnerable. 

But if the cause is just?  Nevermind all that.

 

[South Austin 53228]

18 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, no doubt....Darwin is always standing by to make a cameo appearance, no matter the venue.  He's like Michael Caine, he shows up in EVERYTHING.

[Brisketexan 106909]

1 minute ago, South Austin said:

Oh for fuck's sake, now I'm sitting here saying that to myself over and over.  I oughta neg the shit outta you.

[dcar00 14974]

Just now, Lobo said:

Surreal is, by its very definition, a subjective quality left to the individual creating or experiencing.  So yeah, the shift in news is surreal to Me.  It may however, been perfectly expected by you.  In which case, I must ask you...what else that's coming for us in 2020 do you see as rationally expected?  Because I'd like to prepare my anus accordingly.  

layoffs by large companies in Q3/4.  commercial real estate is going to take a beating. vax in nov.  people fleeing big cities the NE(though that wont "happen" in 2020 per se but it will start).

and by the way, it was expected because the hyperventilated "OMG science guy" models and people weren't looking at the reality.  Our medical community is millions of light years from where it was 100 years ago but that is for a different thread.

[Guest Lobo]

6 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

layoffs by large companies in Q3/4.  commercial real estate is going to take a beating. vax in nov.  people fleeing big cities the NE(though that wont "happen" in 2020 per se but it will start).

and by the way, it was expected because the hyperventilated "OMG science guy" models and people weren't looking at the reality.  Our medical community is millions of light years from where it was 100 years ago but that is for a different thread.

Man, you're not kidding on CRE.  We started getting into it on that "industries that won't survive" or whatever thread.  But i'd like to break that out and start a separate conversation with people that are in the space full time and see what's what.  

[Brisketexan 106909]

16 minutes ago, LABEVO said:

 

 

10 minutes ago, LABEVO said:

 

Also....I mean, if there's ANYTHING that can bring us all together, it's our collective loathing for vacuous twits, correct?

[Guest Lobo]

Those tits are actually way too polite to be at a protest.  She looks like she's going to Bonnarroo later.

[Parliament 14598]

Fargo Government leaders and protest leaders have worked together to plan a peaceful protest today. From 1 to 3 in a park. Local folks are taking zero precautions and are boarding and fencing pretty much everything.

The "Antifa is positioning bricks" narrative has been tossed around elsewhere, and largely debunked. Fargo Police believe it's being done here by someone; Antifa, Nazi's, Russians, whoever. I'm not sure about that, but I'd like to see them pursue the case.

[Underdog 29196]

12 hours ago, Cajun said:

@Brisketexan

Just spitballing here Brisket, but I've read my share of police reports knowing the actual facts of what they purported to describe.  I would guess that 80 to 85% of all police reports contain at least one intentional provarication.

And I'm being conservative.

There's a whole bunch of 'em that need to be rounded up by your standard.  (Note: I'm not disagreeing with you, but tagging onto your thought)

Former co-worker at AMD went the APD route after a bunch of us were laid off back in 2002.  All that time, money, training for him and he ends up losing his job @APD due to false police report/arrest.  A real dumbass. 

[workswithseed 2204]

 

I saw this mural on my walk a couple days ago.

[Brisketexan 106909]

Just now, Parliament said:

Fargo Government leaders and protest leaders have worked together to plan a peaceful protest today. From 1 to 3 in a park. Local folks are taking zero precautions and are boarding and fencing pretty much everything.

The "Antifa is positioning bricks" narrative has been tossed around elsewhere, and largely debunked. Fargo Police believe it's being done here by someone; Antifa, Nazi's, Russians, whoever. I'm not sure about that, but I'd like to see them pursue the case.

Here's what I would do if I was to investigate the matter.

1) I would gather information on whether those pallets were placed there recently, or were there for a while.  A simple inspection underneath can tell you.  If the ground is the same condition as the surrounding area, they are relatively recent.  If it is in different condition (less/more dusty, less grass growing through cracks underneath), they were there for a while.

2) I would pull local camera/traffic cam footage to look for trucks and forklifts heading to and from the area (and whether they showed a difference in load between the to-from trips).  You can't stack those by hand, they are trucked in and forklifted off.  That's a big job.

3) I'd ask witnesses in the area when they first saw the bricks, if they saw someone deliver them, etc.

From what we've seen on functionally all of these stories thus far is that the bricks were either already there for some time, or were placed there recently with no sinister intent (part of normal operations), and/or are stacked far away from any planned protest location, so it's hard to make any connection to any planned action.

If people are actually doing this for nefarious purposes, whoever they are, they should be popped, and popped hard.  But right now, this shit seems to be all panicky rumor mill feeding on itself.

[Parliament 14598]

I agree, and we need confirmation.

[GotThatFire 166]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed but I’m hoping someone can help me out here.

i’m not a lawyer or more specifically at all familiar with Minnesota law. Is it dangerous for them to elevate the charges up to second- degree from thirddegree? If they are found not guilty of second-degree are these motherfuckers going to walk, or can they still be found guilty of third degree?

[Brisketexan 106909]

Just now, GotThatFire said:

Forgive me if this has already been discussed but I’m hoping someone can help me out here.

i’m not a lawyer or more specifically at all familiar with Minnesota law. Is it dangerous for them to elevate the charges up to second- degree from thirddegree? If they are found not guilty of second-degree are these motherfuckers going to walk, or can they still be found guilty of third degree?

In MN, lesser included offenses can be found by the jury.  So, you can charge with second degree, they can choose to convict on third degree.

[mdmost 44059]

9 minutes ago, Parliament said:

Fargo Government leaders and protest leaders have worked together to plan a peaceful protest today. From 1 to 3 in a park. Local folks are taking zero precautions and are boarding and fencing pretty much everything.

The "Antifa is positioning bricks" narrative has been tossed around elsewhere, and largely debunked. Fargo Police believe it's being done here by someone; Antifa, Nazi's, Russians, whoever. I'm not sure about that, but I'd like to see them pursue the case.

 

[Underdog 29196]

36 minutes ago, Bruh Man said:

 

 

But muh property value! 

[John Lawrence 244]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

In MN, lesser included offenses can be found by the jury.  So, you can charge with second degree, they can choose to convict on third degree.

I think the only danger in overcharging is if you go so far out on a limb you lose credibility with the jury.  But I do not see that being an issue here.  Seems pretty textbook second degree murder based on the video.

[GotThatFire 166]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

In MN, lesser included offenses can be found by the jury.  So, you can charge with second degree, they can choose to convict on third degree.

Cool cool, thanks

[dcar00 14974]

the pallet of brick theory is stupid.  I;m assuming 95% of the rock/brick things are bogus/innocent but if people are willing to hand out molotov cocktails I don;t see any reason a few shitheads could find a way to strategically locate some small piles of rocks.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19305]

37 minutes ago, LABEVO said:

 

Influecers are the worst.

[dcar00 14974]

4 minutes ago, John Lawrence said:

I think the only danger in overcharging is if you go so far out on a limb you lose credibility with the jury.  But I do not see that being an issue here.  Seems pretty textbook second degree murder based on the video.

my money is still on pleading to the 3rd degree count but not getting the max of 25.  I'm assuming the manslaughter is the complete backstop. 

[Brisketexan 106909]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

the pallet of brick theory is stupid.  I;m assuming 95% of the rock/brick things are bogus/innocent but if people are willing to hand out molotov cocktails I don;t see any reason a few shitheads could find a way to strategically locate some small piles of rocks.

Sure.  But it's the extrapolation of a handful of literally small and isolated incidents (say, a shithead shows up with a bucket of 10 bricks, some shithead hands out four molotov cocktails) to some vast conspiracy.

I mean, shit, these panicky, amping-it-up reports about every ordinary stack of bricks as some sinister organized paramilitary antifa exercise is only slightly less stupid than pointing out an Exxon station as an "ANTIFA staging of molotov cocktail materials!"  It's not credible, but it sure does feed a narrative some folks very much want to believe in, so that they can dismiss this entire popular movement involving literally tens of millions of Americans as "a buncha terrorists."

[Bruh Man 3160]

Edit: wrong thread

Edited June 5, 2020 by Bruh Man

[Burt Macklin 19230]

3 hours ago, mdmost said:

It's a change that seems to come as a no shit, why aren't you already doing this. But it's at least a change.

 

Yeah, it’s definitely a no shit order. It’s not that hard for a cop to say, “I wouldn’t have done that, but I’m not going to rat out a fellow cop.” It’s a whole mother mental calculation to allow a cop to use excessive force if you know your ass is on the line for it.

But I think we’d all be disturbed to see the rules/lack of rules in place like this across the country. Just making some very basic policy changes like this and wrestling the enforcement power away from police unions will make a huge change. Most of the rules/regulations governing cops were put in place by police-union backed think tanks, so the current rules are abhorrent when it comes to punishing cops. This will hopefully be one clear win we can accomplish from the awareness generated by Floyd’s murder. 

The other problem is actual enforcement of these policies, and that’s another huge policy area where we have to wrestle control away from police unions. Orders like these will be meaningless unless the enforcement mechanisms are also drastically changed. 

[Brisketexan 106909]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

my money is still on pleading to the 3rd degree count but not getting the max of 25.  I'm assuming the manslaughter is the complete backstop. 

Taking such a plea deal would not go over well with the people.  If he pleas to 3rd degree, he has to accept the max.  Otherwise, go ahead and roll the dice on murder 2, motherfucker.

[PenelopeWitherspoon 19305]

41 minutes ago, LABEVO said:

 

Also, this account is outstanding.  I am now following it.

[Brisketexan 106909]

Just now, Burt Macklin said:

Yeah, it’s definitely a no shit order. It’s not that hard for a cop to say, “I wouldn’t have done that, but I’m not going to rat out a fellow cop.” It’s a whole mother mental calculation to allow a cop to use excessive force if you know your ass is on the line for it.

But I think we’d all be disturbed to see the rules/lack of rules in place like this across the country. Just making some very basic policy changes like this and wrestling the enforcement power away from police unions will make a huge change. Most of the rules/regulations governing cops were put in place by police-union backed think tanks, so the current rules are abhorrent when it comes to punishing cops. This will hopefully be one clear win we can accomplish from the awareness generated by Floyd’s murder. 

The other problem is actual enforcement of these policies, and that’s another huge policy area where we have to wrestle control away from police unions. Orders like these will be meaningless unless the enforcement mechanisms are also drastically changed. 

Again, I LOVE the idea of making stuff like this part of the peace officer licensing (and potential suspension/revocation) process under an admin agency.

Have the agency adopt rules like this -- that is, a finding that you observed a fellow cop committing a crime but failed to intervene will be a violation of the conditions of your license, and it can be administratively revoked based on that violation.

[TwiceHorn 32081]

15 minutes ago, John Lawrence said:

I think the only danger in overcharging is if you go so far out on a limb you lose credibility with the jury.  But I do not see that being an issue here.  Seems pretty textbook second degree murder based on the video.

The issue is whether to ask for a charge (jury question) on the lesser offense.  In Texas, either side can ask for it, but it's a tactical thing.  The state may want to salvage a conviction when they've had a failure of proof (haven't had the intent evidence come out as wished); the defense may want the option of a lesser offense and penalty.  But at the same time, the charge on the lesser offense gives the jury a way out that neither the state nor the defense may want; the state thinking the jury will convict even if the proof isn't that good; the defense wanting them to acquit entirely.

In Minnesota, it appears that the jury is charged with the offense indicted as well as the lesser-included offenses in a homicide case without either party asking for it.  So that takes all the gamble out of it.

Edited June 5, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[dcar00 14974]

20 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Sure.  But it's the extrapolation of a handful of literally small and isolated incidents (say, a shithead shows up with a bucket of 10 bricks, some shithead hands out four molotov cocktails) to some vast conspiracy.

I mean, shit, these panicky, amping-it-up reports about every ordinary stack of bricks as some sinister organized paramilitary antifa exercise is only slightly less stupid than pointing out an Exxon station as an "ANTIFA staging of molotov cocktail materials!"  It's not credible, but it sure does feed a narrative some folks very much want to believe in, so that they can dismiss this entire popular movement involving literally tens of millions of Americans as "a buncha terrorists."

to be honest, I think you are overreacting. social media is a cesspool of idiots.  if  Antifa is a bunch of shitheads and is involved no doubt.  the looters are fucking morons.  bothy fuck it up for the rest of us but what are you going to do?  the police and authorities and leaders in the cities have to handle it.  If they can't they are shitty leaders.

[Message Board User 12406]

3 hours ago, Lobo said:

You just made the list, pal!  

Yeah sorry, I've just seen many folks get suspended/negged for bringing up Cuomo on threads.  Which sucks, because if we can't comment on the most heavily affected state with Covid-19, what the hell can we talk about?  I digress.  It is beyond surreal how Coronavirus went to the backpage so quickly in the last week+  

Well yeah the medical community is ENCOURAGING the downplaying of the covid.

 

[stone oak 639]

3 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Well yeah the medical community is ENCOURAGING the downplaying of the covid.

 

[utee94 16089]

The whole brick thing reads like a thread on Nextdoor where Karen notices a "blue-hoodied teenager" walking around the neighborhood, and then another Karen responds that she, too, has seen a teenager in a brown hoodie out and about, walking menacingly on the sidewalk.

[GotThatFire 166]

It is my understanding that Covid has hurt the black community more. Correct me if I’m wrong. 
 

?

[Message Board User 12406]

Just now, GotThatFire said:

It is my understanding that Covid has hurt the black community more. Correct me if I’m wrong. 
 

?

You are not wrong, which makes the downplaying of the Covid in relation to these protests even more mind-bottling.

 

[dcar00 14974]

26 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Yeah, it’s definitely a no shit order. It’s not that hard for a cop to say, “I wouldn’t have done that, but I’m not going to rat out a fellow cop.” It’s a whole mother mental calculation to allow a cop to use excessive force if you know your ass is on the line for it.

But I think we’d all be disturbed to see the rules/lack of rules in place like this across the country. Just making some very basic policy changes like this and wrestling the enforcement power away from police unions will make a huge change. Most of the rules/regulations governing cops were put in place by police-union backed think tanks, so the current rules are abhorrent when it comes to punishing cops. This will hopefully be one clear win we can accomplish from the awareness generated by Floyd’s murder. 

The other problem is actual enforcement of these policies, and that’s another huge policy area where we have to wrestle control away from police unions. Orders like these will be meaningless unless the enforcement mechanisms are also drastically changed. 

IMO a lot of this comes down to how do you handle people who are resisting arrest and unarmed.  killing of unarmed people by police is very rare.  I think they need to use more stun guns and they need to just shackle legs and feet and wait it out.  what this Minn cop did is just stupid and dumb beyond belief, not anywhere close to what training would tell you to do, and people have a right to be outraged.   I still dont understand why in the world the 2 rookies don't shackle the guys legs and then get up.

unions are no good.  the blue line is a problem.  but the vast majority of police are people doing their best I believe.  maybe have cops who live in the communities. make it very small area.

Its a damn tough/stressful job in major cities and we ALL need them.

[Brisketexan 106909]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

but the vast majority of police are people doing their best I believe.

Counterpoint:

See the Buffalo PD assault on the old man.  One cop actually tries to help him....is stopped by a fellow cop.  All the other cops -- and it's a goddamned platoon of them -- walk right by.  And the topper on that shit sandwich?  The official PD statement -- not a statement by one rogue cop in the moment, but the OFFICIAL STATEMENT -- was a flat-out lie, saying he "tripped and fell" when there was literally direct news camera footage of him being pushed to the ground by  Buffalo PD.

Man, just bad luck that 1) every single cop that walked by happened to be one of the few bad ones, and 2) the official statement of the entire PD just happened to be typed by one of the few bad ones.

Sorry, the evidence is stacking up, and it's undeniable.  Any given cop is more likely to be a bad one than a good one.  They will all walk by the man their brother cop brutally shoved down and injured.  Then, collectively, they'll lie about it after the fact.

I want to believe like you do.  I really do.  Because that would mean that fixing shit is not going to be as hard as it could be.  But the evidence is to the contrary.  Fixing our LEO culture is going to be one of the hardest tasks this country has ever faced.

[Lone Star Horn 2071]

1 hour ago, workswithseed said:

 

I saw this mural on my walk a couple days ago.

 

[Bruh Man 3160]

 

[Guest Lobo]

Can't expect to make it home at night without gassing a teacher to death.  I can see how the heroes would have bee intimidated by all 105 pounds of her.  

To Brisket's point...I'm just glad that all the bad cops are concentrated in Buffalo and not around me.  

[Message Board User 12406]

 

[MissingInAction 25559]

They just DGAF

 

 

[BabaYaga 15625]

15 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Sorry, the evidence is stacking up, and it's undeniable.  Any given cop is more likely to be a bad one than a good one.  They will all walk by the man their brother cop brutally shoved down and injured.  Then, collectively, they'll lie about it after the fact.

I'm sorry, but this is just another cocktail of hyperbole and histrionics with a large splash of confirmation bias.  How many police are their in the US?  How many millions? Hundreds of millions of people.  An estimated 375 million interactions/year and your "evidence" are anecdotal events selectively reported on during riots?  So many more incidents of police helping people.  Marching with people.  And you just casually shit on hundreds of thousands of them across tens of thousands of districts in all 50 states covering tens of thousands of cities.  

1000+ people shot by LE last year.  Each one a tragedy.  235 were black.  The same percentage going back to 2015.  Also a tragedy.  Unarmed shootings last year - 9 black and 19 white.  Down from dozens/year going back to 2015.  Statistically, an officer is 18x more likely to die in an interaction that an unarmed person is to die at the hands of LE.  

 

[NeverMarryAStripper 22305]

Here is a link to the Houston police contract which is up at the end of this year.  I found it particularly interesting to see all of the rights that they are granted while being investigated that us ordinary citizens are routinely denied.  I'm planning on writing a letter to the Mayor, and all of City Council members telling them of my intent to vote against any one of them that votes to approve a new contract the contains any of the provisions currently contained in Article 30.  It's not much, but it will make me feel better.

https://hpou.org/wp-content/uploads/Final-2018-MC-Draft-Prior-to-Ratification.pdf