Minneapolis Cop Murders A Black Man

[freyguy 4279]

5 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

They just DGAF

 

 

To Protect and To Serve

In February 1955, the Los Angeles Police Department, through the pages of the internally produced BEAT magazine, conducted a contest for a motto for the police academy. The conditions of the contest stated that: "The motto should be one that in a few words would express some or all the ideals to which the Los Angeles police service is dedicated. It is possible that the winning motto might someday be adopted as the official motto of the Department." The winning entry was the motto, "To Protect and to Serve" submitted by Officer Joseph S. Dorobek.

[MissingInAction 25116]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I'm sorry, but this is just another cocktail of hyperbole and histrionics with a large splash of confirmation bias.  How many police are their in the US?  How many millions? Hundreds of millions of people.  An estimated 375 million interactions/year and your "evidence" are anecdotal events selectively reported on during riots?  So many more incidents of police helping people.  Marching with people.  And you just casually shit on hundreds of thousands of them across tens of thousands of districts in all 50 states covering tens of thousands of cities.  

1000+ people shot by LE last year.  Each one a tragedy.  235 were black.  The same percentage going back to 2015.  Also a tragedy.  Unarmed shootings last year - 9 black and 19 white.  Down from dozens/year going back to 2015.  Statistically, an officer is 18x more likely to die in an interaction that an unarmed person is to die at the hands of LE.  

 

Jesus fuck! Are you God damned blind or just completely ignoring every bit of third party video evidence thats avaialble?

Those pigs pushed an elderly man to the ground then marched over him. They are using a gas banned by international treaty. They shot disabled man in the fucking face for ducks sakes!

What in the shit is wrong with you?

[dcar00 14306]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I'm sorry, but this is just another cocktail of hyperbole and histrionics with a large splash of confirmation bias.  How many police are their in the US?  How many millions? Hundreds of millions of people.  An estimated 375 million interactions/year and your "evidence" are anecdotal events selectively reported on during riots?  So many more incidents of police helping people.  Marching with people.  And you just casually shit on hundreds of thousands of them across tens of thousands of districts in all 50 states covering tens of thousands of cities.  

1000+ people shot by LE last year.  Each one a tragedy.  235 were black.  The same percentage going back to 2015.  Also a tragedy.  Unarmed shootings last year - 9 black and 19 white.  Down from dozens/year going back to 2015.  Statistically, an officer is 18x more likely to die in an interaction that an unarmed person is to die at the hands of LE.  

 

you forgot the 6 hispanics.  everyone seems to be forgetting the hispanics.  pretty soon they will be in the othes category like asians.  not really minority.

[Brisketexan 105161]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

I'm sorry, but this is just another cocktail of hyperbole and histrionics with a large splash of confirmation bias.  How many police are their in the US?  How many millions? Hundreds of millions of people.  An estimated 375 million interactions/year and your "evidence" are anecdotal events selectively reported on during riots?  So many more incidents of police helping people.  Marching with people.  And you just casually shit on hundreds of thousands of them across tens of thousands of districts in all 50 states covering tens of thousands of cities.  

1000+ people shot by LE last year.  Each one a tragedy.  235 were black.  The same percentage going back to 2015.  Also a tragedy.  Unarmed shootings last year - 9 black and 19 white.  Down from dozens/year going back to 2015.  Statistically, an officer is 18x more likely to die in an interaction that an unarmed person is to die at the hands of LE.  

 

1 -- let's start at the bottom.  False narrowing of the subject.  The issue is a lot more than police shootings. Shit, George Floyd wasn't even shot.  The issue is more than deaths.  It's about the rule of law,  and the issue is how poorly LEOs treat the public in general, from simple assaults to murders, to routinely lying in official statements, etc.  And yep, how that misconduct falls even more heavily on minorities.

2 -- even in many of the instances of marching with people etc....those same cops, often within a few hours, have committed numerous acts of unprovoked violence at innocent protesters (yes, also some violence at not-innocent protesters).  There's a thread chronicling just videos of these incidents -- there are already over 200 videos up, I think.

3 -- regarding Buffalo, it was LITERALLY THE DEPARTMENT ACCOUNT that published a flat-out lie.  It spoke for the entire department.  And shit, again, what are the odds that Floyd just happened to be surrounded by FOUR bad cops?  Bad luck, I guess.  What are the odds that ALL of those Buffalo cops were bad ones so they walked by a bleeding man?  Just bad luck, I guess.

I'm sorry that the rapidly building body of evidence makes cops look like shit....but the evidence is self-created.  They should stop creating it.

 

[dcar00 14306]

Just now, MissingInAction said:

Jesus fuck! Are you God damned blind or just completely ignoring every bit of third party video evidence thats avaialble?

Those pigs pushed an elderly man to the ground then marched over him. They are using a gas banned by international treaty. They shot disabled man in the fucking face for ducks sakes!

What in the shit is wrong with you?

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!! helter skelter!!  kill the pigs!!   and don't bring ducks into this.  they are innocent in this situation as are the geese.

[Brisketexan 105161]

Just now, dcar00 said:

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!! helter skelter!!  kill the pigs!!   and don't bring ducks into this.  they are innocent in this situation as are the geese.

Geese are mean as fuck and I judge them all for it and if that makes me racist against geese I don't care.  Fucking geese, man.

[BabaYaga 15302]

2 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Jesus fuck! Are you God damned blind or just completely ignoring every bit of third party video evidence thats avaialble?

Those pigs pushed an elderly man to the ground then marched over him. They are using a gas banned by international treaty. They shot disabled man in the fucking face for ducks sakes!

What in the shit is wrong with you?

I"m not ignoring nor conflating EVERY LE in the US with the actions taken during a riot.  EVERY COP.  EVERY officer.  In the country.  Every one of them.  Jesus people, take a step back.  

[dcar00 14306]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

I"m not ignoring nor conflating EVERY LE in the US with the actions taken during a riot.  EVERY COP.  EVERY officer.  In the country.  Every one of them.  Jesus people, take a step back.  

to be fair he said its 50/50  good cop to bad cop. so 1 of every 2.

[utee94 15835]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!!! helter skelter!!  kill the pigs!!   and don't bring ducks into this.  they are innocent in this situation as are the geese.

Bullshit, geese are assholes.  You clearly haven't interacted with them much.

[drt 640]

I mean, cops behavior over the last week during protests has been pretty suspect in their use of force all across the country.  Calling every protest across the USA a riot is disingenuous and not accurate.

 

[Brisketexan 105161]

1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

I"m not ignoring nor conflating EVERY LE in the US with the actions taken during a riot.  EVERY COP.  EVERY officer.  In the country.  Every one of them.  Jesus people, take a step back.  

Yes, we're extrapolating.  But it sure is funny how whenever the cops have a chance to prove they're NOT one of the bad ones -- when the shit is really happening -- we just coincidentally get to see all the bad ones who do wrong, and all the bad ones who let them.  Big coincidence, I guess.

[John Lawrence 244]

 

 

[BabaYaga 15302]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

1 -- let's start at the bottom.  False narrowing of the subject.  The issue is a lot more than police shootings. Shit, George Floyd wasn't even shot.  The issue is more than deaths.  It's about the rule of law,  and the issue is how poorly LEOs treat the public in general, from simple assaults to murders, to routinely lying in official statements, etc.  And yep, how that misconduct falls even more heavily on minorities.

2 -- even in many of the instances of marching with people etc....those same cops, often within a few hours, have committed numerous acts of unprovoked violence at innocent protesters (yes, also some violence at not-innocent protesters).  There's a thread chronicling just videos of these incidents -- there are already over 200 videos up, I think.

3 -- regarding Buffalo, it was LITERALLY THE DEPARTMENT ACCOUNT that published a flat-out lie.  It spoke for the entire department.  And shit, again, what are the odds that Floyd just happened to be surrounded by FOUR bad cops?  Bad luck, I guess.  What are the odds that ALL of those Buffalo cops were bad ones so they walked by a bleeding man?  Just bad luck, I guess.

I'm sorry that the rapidly building body of evidence makes cops look like shit....but the evidence is self-created.  They should stop creating it.

 

Not narrowing anything.  How poorly they treat the general public?  I gave you a sample size of 375 million per year and you double-down on a straw-man argument of riots equating to domestic police behavior over the course of decades?  What are the odds?  What are the odds out of 375 million interactions you can select out what confirms your bias and ignore hundreds of millions of others that don't....

[BabaYaga 15302]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes, we're extrapolating.  But it sure is funny how whenever the cops have a chance to prove they're NOT one of the bad ones -- when the shit is really happening -- we just coincidentally get to see all the bad ones who do wrong, and all the bad ones who let them.  Big coincidence, I guess.

Despite the contrary, you can prove a negative.  You prove it with hundreds of millions of mundane, innocuous incidents YOY that go completely unreported because there is nothing to report.  

[MissingInAction 25116]

Excuse me.. I'm a bit verklempt. 

[Huckleberry 33035]

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Not narrowing anything.  How poorly they treat the general public?  I gave you a sample size of 375 million per year and you double-down on a straw-man argument of riots equating to domestic police behavior over the course of decades?  What are the odds?  What are the odds out of 375 million interactions you can select out what confirms your bias and ignore hundreds of millions of others that don't....

Oh okay, you win. Cops have far more interactions where they don't beat someone than interactions where they do beat someone.

So what? Is that your standard for police officers?

Every serial murderer in the history of the world has had far more interactions where they didn't kill someone than interactions where they did kill someone. Not doing a horrible thing more often than you do the horrible thing is not a persuasive argument.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Huckleberry

[Genco 3041]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Despite the contrary, you can prove a negative.  You prove it with hundreds of millions of mundane, innocuous incidents YOY that go completely unreported because there is nothing to report.  

The absence of video in hundreds of millions of interactions doesn't prove that all of those interactions are above board. Without the video, the Buffalo incident would have gone in the innocuous category. How do I know? The Buffalo PD told me so.

 

[Brisketexan 105161]

Just now, BabaYaga said:

Despite the contrary, you can prove a negative.  You prove it with hundreds of millions of mundane, innocuous incidents YOY that go completely unreported because there is nothing to report.  

Most wife beaters have thousands of interactions with their wife where they don't beat them.

Most thieves have paid for items from the store thousands of times in their lives.

The fact that cops don't beat every person they encounter, and lie on every single report they make.....proves their innocence as much as I just proved the innocence of all wife beaters and thieves.  I'm sure the wife beater and thief community appreciates your new standard of judgment.  And, I mean, the rapist who has 99 consensual sexual encounters before he rapes somebody is breathing a sigh of relief -- "99% of the time, my sexual relations with women are consensual!  Why aren't we talking about that?"

Your rebuttal proves absolutely nothing.  There are two questions:

1) how many cops, during their career, will commit material misconduct (we're not talking about letting a pretty girl off with a warning on a traffic stop, little piddly stuff)?  That is, how many of them will use unwarranted force, exacting extra-judicial punishment on a suspect?  How many of them will lie on a report to incriminate someone?  Things like that.

2) how many cops, when they are confronted with a colleague committing material misconduct covered by question 1) will either let him do it or will actively help him get away with it?

All of the cops who we would deem "bad" based on the answers to questions 1 and 2 are also almost certainly cops who have MOST of their citizen interactions go hunky-dory.  But they're still objectively bad cops.

[dcar00 14306]

12 minutes ago, utee94 said:

Bullshit, geese are assholes.  You clearly haven't interacted with them much.

I'd say geese are more of the "don't start no shit, won't be no shit" variety but clearly not ducks.

[Homercles 10206]

14 minutes ago, John Lawrence said:

 

 

So we are posting troll memes from 4chan now?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/go-bald-black-lives-matter-movement-real-1509007%3famp=1

[dcar00 14306]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Most wife beaters have thousands of interactions with their wife where they don't beat them.

Most thieves have paid for items from the store thousands of times in their lives.

The fact that cops don't beat every person they encounter, and lie on every single report they make.....proves their innocence as much as I just proved the innocence of all wife beaters and thieves.  I'm sure the wife beater and thief community appreciates your new standard of judgment.  And, I mean, the rapist who has 99 consensual sexual encounters before he rapes somebody is breathing a sigh of relief -- "99% of the time, my sexual relations with women are consensual!  Why aren't we talking about that?"

Your rebuttal proves absolutely nothing.  There are two questions:

1) how many cops, during their career, will commit material misconduct (we're not talking about letting a pretty girl off with a warning on a traffic stop, little piddly stuff)?  That is, how many of them will use unwarranted force, exacting extra-judicial punishment on a suspect?  How many of them will lie on a report to incriminate someone?  Things like that.

2) how many cops, when they are confronted with a colleague committing material misconduct covered by question 1) will either let him do it or will actively help him get away with it?

All of the cops who we would deem "bad" based on the answers to questions 1 and 2 are also almost certainly cops who have MOST of their citizen interactions go hunky-dory.  But they're still objectively bad cops.

agreed. how many?

[workswithseed 2112]

12 minutes ago, John Lawrence said:

 

 

That's awesome.

 

[Bigpoppapump 532]

21 minutes ago, John Lawrence said:

 

 

Still got nothing on Fapple Mountain Dew.

[Brisketexan 105161]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

agreed. how many?

Well, of course, we don't know exactly.

But in this new era of cameras, we're sure seeing a good number of bad cops under question 1.  And I'll be honest -- that really doesn't shock and disturb me.  Because ANY group will have bad actors: cops, doctors, physical therapists, lawyers, chewing gum factory workers, etc.

The rot is the problem cops under question 2.  And the hell of it is, in any situation, it just takes ONE good cop to stop the bad actions.  Just one....and that cop doesn't show up.  Three cops helped protect Chauvin while he murdered Mr. Floyd.  We watched lines of them let a cop get away with assault in Buffalo, and march right by an injured man, even STOPPING an attempted "good cop" from assisting the injured man.  And we've seen dozens more.

Bad cops 1 won't be much of a problem if we no longer have bad cops 2.  That's the problem.

[BabaYaga 15302]

12 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

The fact that cops don't beat every person they encounter, and lie on every single report they make.....proves their innocence as much as I just proved the innocence of all wife beaters and thieves

This is absurd, and I think you know it is.  You are conflating a single person to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of individual PEOPLE.  Which is the point.  With a single generalization you have cast a blanket statement about officers across the entire country and ignore off the good they do and the polling indicating the majority of people want MORE of them in their communities, not less.  

 

17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

1) how many cops, during their career, will commit material misconduct (we're not talking about letting a pretty girl off with a warning on a traffic stop, little piddly stuff)?  That is, how many of them will use unwarranted force, exacting extra-judicial punishment on a suspect?  How many of them will lie on a report to incriminate someone?  Things like that.

2) how many cops, when they are confronted with a colleague committing material misconduct covered by question 1) will either let him do it or will actively help him get away with it?

Then you direct actions on the structural impediments.  We discussed immunity provisions.  Oversight.  But to simply cast aside hundreds of thousands of professionals is dangerous.  Any rhetoric focusing on binary  absolutes regarding classes of people is never helpful, yet what the conversations devoid of any nuance always render down into.  

[Message Board User 12395]

 

[SHOOTER12 8811]

1 hour ago, Bruh Man said:

 

This isn't loading for me.  Help a brother out?

[Brisketexan 105161]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

This is absurd, and I think you know it is.  You are conflating a single person to hundreds of thousands, if not millions of individual PEOPLE.  Which is the point.  With a single generalization you have cast a blanket statement about officers across the entire country and ignore off the good they do and the polling indicating the majority of people want MORE of them in their communities, not less.  

 

Then you direct actions on the structural impediments.  We discussed immunity provisions.  Oversight.  But to simply cast aside hundreds of thousands of professionals is dangerous.  Any rhetoric focusing on binary  absolutes regarding classes of people is never helpful, yet what the conversations devoid of any nuance always render down into.  

1 -- you would exonerate cops based on the hundreds of interactions they have where they DON'T do something wrong.  That is a logical fallacy -- it that is how it works, wife-beaters, thieves, and rapists should be exonerated for all the times when they DON'T beat, steal, or rape.  It doesn't work that way.  I don't give a shit if a rapist does a lot of good in the community, too.  If he's a rapist, he has to go.  Do good in the community. AND, don't rape people.  I hold the same standard for cops -- do good in the community, AND, don't commit crimes against the people.  And actually, I can and should hold them to a HIGHER standard, because cops actually have a duty to PROTECT us, not victimize us.  Think of how we perceive a difference between a little girl raped by a stranger, vs. a little girl raped by her own father.  We are correctly more outraged by the father raping his daughter because he is supposed to protect her, she is supposed to be safe with him.  Literally the LAST people in the world I should have to worry about criminally victimizing me are law officers.

2 -- you ignore the two phases of the problem.  Phase 1 are those cops who actively commit wrongdoing.  I suspect that you are right, and this is far from all cops.  I hope that it's even far from most cops.  But the reason that phase 1 cops still exist is because of phase 2 cops -- they KNOW that their fellow officers are doing wrong, and they either allow it or even cover for it.

And yes, I'm basing the conclusion that phase 2 is a problem based on incident after incident after incident.  Shit, we can go back to the Rodney King beating -- not every cop there beat him.  But every cop there let it happen.  And it continues in a long line from there.  Yes, it is obviously a deep, systemic problem. For crying out loud, it even has names that cops and cop supporters PROUDLY invoke -- the blue line, the blue wall of silence, etc.

No, you don't get to hide behind the "but you can't prove that every single one of them is bad, and look, they all do a lot of good stuff, too!" bullshit.  There are plenty of phase 1 bad cops.  That's bad enough.  But for those phase 1 cops to be out there doing what they do, there are 100X more phase 2 bad cops, who let them, and even protect them.  That you don't get that this is where it all breaks down is some purposeful ignorance.

 

[HRSchenker 2271]

At this point my biggest fear is that all of this police violence creates a wave of people like Micah Johnson. The good cops (the 90% that actually protect and serve the community) who continue to allow the 10% to shoot homeless in the face, crack the skulls of peaceful elderly protesters, and use tear gas on children will be added to the list below the 5 in Dallas and the cycle will continue. The police will get more violent and more innocent people will have their rights abridged. 

[Brisketexan 105161]

1 minute ago, HRSchenker said:

At this point my biggest fear is that all of this police violence creates a wave of people like Micah Johnson. The good cops (the 90% that actually protect and serve the community) who continue to allow the 10% to shoot homeless in the face, crack the skulls of peaceful elderly protesters, and use tear gas on children will be added to the list below the 5 in Dallas and the cycle will continue. The police will get more violent and more innocent people will have their rights abridged. 

Oh, I think we've seen that plenty of PDs (not all of them....but a shitload more than you'd ever like to see) have doubled down, effectively saying "oh really?  You want to challenge our authority?  Well here's what you get, fuckers.  Gonna challenge it again, motherfucker?"  It is escalating and absolutely will escalate.  Not everywhere, but in more places than it ever, ever should.

[bolverk 29694]

30 minutes ago, Homercles said:

So we are posting troll memes from 4chan now?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsweek.com/go-bald-black-lives-matter-movement-real-1509007%3famp=1

Apparently. I looked up the accounts in that tweet and they're either bots or far right accounts retweeting other bots/far right accounts, trying to get that hashtag trending. Lots of the photos are poorly done photoshops, including one of a bald Emma Watson.

And I also wonder why our new poster would be following an account with a handle called Jooman accompanied by a profile pic displaying a poster of a fascist Australian. This new guy seems really fishy.

@hayden_horn Can we get an IP check when you get a chance to see whose sock this poster potentially is? tia

[bolverk 29694]

36 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

That's awesome.

 

No, it's not. It's propaganda spreading a fake hashtag by bots. See my post above.

[mdmost 43007]

Just a few bad apples huh? The good ones will call out the bad ones. Right?

 

[VRHorn 718]

1 minute ago, bolverk said:

Apparently. I looked up the accounts in that tweet and they're either bots or far right accounts retweeting other bots/far right accounts, trying to get that hashtag trending. Lots of the photos are poorly done photoshops, including one of a bald Emma Watson.

And I also wonder why our new poster would be following an account with a handle called Jooman accompanied by a profile pic displaying a poster of a fascist Australian. This new guy seems really fishy.

@hayden_horn Can we get an IP check when you get a chance to see whose sock this poster potentially is? tia

I assumed it was Chrispy, but I guess that could be wrong.

[J.R. Juniors Junior Jr. 1084]

14 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Here comes the smiting

 

 

[BabaYaga 15302]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

- you would exonerate cops based on the hundreds of interactions they have where they DON'T do something wrong.  That is a logical fallacy -- it that is how it works, wife-beaters, thieves, and rapists should be exonerated for all the times when they DON'T beat, steal, or rape.

The logical fallacy is using the actions of a single person destined to commit a crime at the end of a long cycle of good (to use your example), with hundreds of thousands of people that have never done a thing over the course of their careers.  

 

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And actually, I can and should hold them to a HIGHER standard, because cops actually have a duty to PROTECT us, not victimize us.

Then why is polling indicating they want MORE of them, not less.  The answer is because the VAST majority do this very thing.  You are using the actions of a select few to paint an entire profession from top to bottom.  That is the issue.  Already guilty in your eyes, utilizing a straw-man scenario that we are unable to quantify either way.  

 

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

No, you don't get to hide behind the "but you can't prove that every single one of them is bad, and look, they all do a lot of good stuff, too!" bullshit.  There are plenty of phase 1 bad cops.  That's bad enough.  But for those phase 1 cops to be out there doing what they do, there are 100X more phase 2 bad cops, who let them, and even protect them.  That you don't get that this is where it all breaks down is some purposeful ignorance.

 

I'm not hiding behind anything.  Nor am I making hyperbolic statements (per usual) and casting wide nets of aspersions on whole groups of people using scenarios that we can't quantify to bolster a conclusion you have already decided upon.  

[Neonmoon 38129]

4 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Just a few bad apples huh? The good ones will call out the bad ones. Right?

 

Gang gonna Gang

 

[Guest Lobo]

A tacit rationale for the Posse Comitatus policy was that it was bad for morale and community standards to have U.S. Armed Forces deployed on domestic soil for anything other than humanitarian relief (and obviously foreign invaders).  There are no positive outcome examples in recorded human history where sovereign armies beat down their own civilians.  Communities are never the same after that.  It's awkward to go back to living among the people you beat and killed.  It's bad for all involved, that's a big part of the reason we keep the military off Main Street.  

So you'd think that rationale would have spread to the police.  That it's a bad look for all involved for them to beat and kill people in their own cities.  There was a time, particularly where I grew up in Chicago, where the various ethnic neighborhoods were largely patrolled by people of that ethnicity.  Hispanic cops patrolled the Hispanic parts of town, Irish in theirs, Polish in theirs, Italians in theirs, Blacks in theirs, Asians, and so on with the CBD being kind of a mixed bag as you'd expect downtown.  This was eventually, through societal pressure and some government policy, to be deemed regressive and now patrols are largely assigned on seniority, tactical experience, and systematic rotations.  I dunno anymore, maybe it was a good idea.  Take the sociological analysis away, I think people are just less likely to unnecessarily beat people that they live amongst.  

I guess large protests are different though because you have so many people from so many parts of town convening in one area.  But I'd still like to think a Buffalo police officer or any other officer would see a peaceful civilian and think, "Yeah, better not fuck him up...he could by my postman for all I know."  When I stay at a friend's house, I am clean, polite, and quiet.  When I stay in a hotel in another city, and I don't know anybody in the entire building ---yeah I'm defiling that room twelve ways from Tuesday.  Oh, it's a scene man. 

[hayden_horn 11362]

8 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Apparently. I looked up the accounts in that tweet and they're either bots or far right accounts retweeting other bots/far right accounts, trying to get that hashtag trending. Lots of the photos are poorly done photoshops, including one of a bald Emma Watson.

And I also wonder why our new poster would be following an account with a handle called Jooman accompanied by a profile pic displaying a poster of a fascist Australian. This new guy seems really fishy.

@hayden_horn Can we get an IP check when you get a chance to see whose sock this poster potentially is? tia

ip seems clean and is in texas. 

[GotThatFire 166]

1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

You are not wrong, which makes the downplaying of the Covid in relation to these protests even more mind-bottling.

 

Yeah. Sadly, it reminds me of this:

 

 

They should probably start encouraging distancing. Those huge, tightly packed crowds make me cringe.

[BabaYaga 15302]

8 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Oh, I think we've seen that plenty of PDs (not all of them....but a shitload more than you'd ever like to see) have doubled down, effectively saying "oh really?  You want to challenge our authority?  Well here's what you get, fuckers.  Gonna challenge it again, motherfucker?"  It is escalating and absolutely will escalate.  Not everywhere, but in more places than it ever, ever should.

If they pull that, then it's the elected officials that engender this that need to be held accountable in the communities that house these precincts.  That's how structural change happens, by focusing on the structure that facilitates this.  We saw this happen successfully in the Army decades over decades.  From the Vietnam war, through today.  

[GotThatFire 166]

2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

If they pull that, then it's the elected officials that engender this that need to be held accountable in the communities that house these precincts.  That's how structural change happens, by focusing on the structure that facilitates this.  We saw this happen successfully in the Army decades over decades.  From the Vietnam war, through today.  

That you, Shaun?

 

 

[hayden_horn 11362]

11 minutes ago, bolverk said:

No, it's not. It's propaganda spreading a fake hashtag by bots. See my post above.

can you explain this to me like i'm 5 years old?

[bolverk 29694]

In what city did that video of cops shooting rubber bullets at people standing on their own front porch take place? I want to say it was also in upstate New York. Was that also in Buffalo?

[BabaYaga 15302]

3 minutes ago, Lobo said:

There was a time, particularly where I grew up in Chicago, where the various ethnic neighborhoods were largely patrolled by people of that ethnicity.  Hispanic cops patrolled the Hispanic parts of town, Irish in theirs, Polish in theirs, Italians in theirs, Blacks in theirs, Asians, and so on with the CBD being kind of a mixed bag as you'd expect downtown.  This was eventually, through societal pressure and some government policy, to be deemed regressive and now patrols are largely assigned on seniority, tactical experience, and systematic rotations.  I dunno anymore, maybe it was a good idea.  Take the sociological analysis away, I think people are just less likely to unnecessarily beat people that they live amongst.  

That's been used in many smaller precincts (obviously), but in many areas like NY, CA, they can't afford to live in the areas they patrol.  It was also seen as regressive as states and isolated officers into certain regions and didn't allow for movements between regions for officers, etc.   Then you have the "Capo" effect, where you have community issues with worse treatment from their own than from outside officers who are move reticent.  Not sure what the research says on this.  

[mdmost 43007]

Just now, bolverk said:

In what city did that video of cops shooting rubber bullets at people standing on their own front porch take place? I want to say it was also in upstate New York. Was that also in Buffalo?

No, that was Minneapolis PD. 

[Brisketexan 105161]

3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

The logical fallacy is using the actions of a single person destined to commit a crime at the end of a long cycle of good (to use your example), with hundreds of thousands of people that have never done a thing over the course of their careers.  

 

Then why is polling indicating they want MORE of them, not less.  The answer is because the VAST majority do this very thing.  You are using the actions of a select few to paint an entire profession from top to bottom.  That is the issue.  Already guilty in your eyes, utilizing a straw-man scenario that we are unable to quantify either way.  

 

I'm not hiding behind anything.  Nor am I making hyperbolic statements (per usual) and casting wide nets of aspersions on whole groups of people using scenarios that we can't quantify to bolster a conclusion you have already decided upon.  

That's a whole lot of words for you to just say "I think that your statement of problem 2 type cops is false."  Say it.  Own it. 

And then we can talk about, darn-it, all the bad luck of just happening to catch groups of cops, over, and over, and over, standing by and/or protecting a bad cop.  I mean, if the VAST majority of them are good, what are the odds of (and I'll just use these three quick examples -- we can pick dozens and dozens more): 

1) 14 cops being present at the Rodney King beating, and none of them stopping it?

4) 4 cops being present at George Floyd's murder, and none of them stopping it?

5) well over 30 cops (my count from the video, and I'm being conservative) being present in Buffalo when a cop shoved an old man to the ground, cracking his skull....and none of them helping him or confronting the cop who shoved him?  In fact, one of them STOPPED the ONE cop who was about to try to do the right thing.

Heck, let's assume that all of those cops didn't even include the type 1 bad cop who actually commit the assault.  That's 48 cops....and not ONE of them stepped up to do the right thing.  In fact, the one who TRIED....was stopped by his fellow cops.

Man, what AMAZINGLY bad luck.  I mean, you would think that since the VAST majority of cops are good, we could select 48 cops at random, and, like, 45 of them would be good cops who intervene to protect a victim.  Okay, maybe 40?  24?  10?  ONE?  Nope?  Wow.  Yeah, I can't see where one would get the idea that the vast majority of cops are NOT good cops.  I mean, unless you have a basic grasp of math and realize that the odds of finding the 48 worst cops in America, all on three videos, is like eleventy billion to one.

[BabaYaga 15302]

1 minute ago, GotThatFire said:

That you, Shaun?

 

 

Not a fan, but he's not wrong.  Even this is too simplistic.  When you distill down "the other side" into a 280 character tweet, "you" become part of the problem.  These are people.  On both sides.  This is both intellectually lazy and dishonest and renders any further dialogue moot. 

• All/most Democrats are...
• All/most Rebubs are....
• All/most white people...
• All/most black people....

I think this is a good place to start.  Then go after the structure within which they operate.  

[Brisketexan 105161]

8 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

If they pull that, then it's the elected officials that engender this that need to be held accountable in the communities that house these precincts.  That's how structural change happens, by focusing on the structure that facilitates this.  We saw this happen successfully in the Army decades over decades.  From the Vietnam war, through today.  

I don't disagree that political leadership should be accountable.  100% agreed.  They've let this shit go on too long, and go much too far.

But that doesn't fucking absolve the broken fucking culture that sees 48 cops have the chance to do the right thing, and all 48 affirmatively decide not to (granted, one of them thought about it, but was persuaded otherwise by his brother officer).  We didn't let nazis point to their superiors and say "I was just following orders."  I damned well don't accept a defense from police departments that "sure, we're super-shitty, but blame the city council, they let us be shitty!"

[bolverk 29694]

1 minute ago, hayden_horn said:

can you explain this to me like i'm 5 years old?

Go upthread a bit and look Homerclese's post. Also the quoted post by Workswithseed.

If you go to the original tweet and look up the accounts in the photo, you'll see that their posts are filled with far right content and retweets of other accounts doing the same. They are also posting photoshopped and/or stock pictures of girls with shaved heads. It looks like an organized effort to get something trending that's not really a "thing" to make BLM supporters look silly by acting like they've fooled chicks into shaving their heads when they haven't.