Minneapolis Cop Murders A Black Man

[immortal13 4059]

2 minutes ago, LebongJames said:

That’s a really one sided view of what our police forces do. I feel that cop murdered Floyd and others have as well but that doesn’t completely devalue what the other men and women do on a daily basis.

Have you ever needed the police? Have you had a friend or family member be the victim of a violent crime? Have you had personal property stolen from you? 

Get the fuck out of here with your completely one sided view of the world of police are bad and do no good.

Sorry bro, but the safer bet is to not call the police and protect yourself if necessary.  Calling the cops has become an absolute last resort for me. They simply can't be trusted, and I can't tell which ones are "good". They all look the same to me

[dcar00 14023]

8 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

They will have less money and we will have better results because we spend that money more effectively. Again you could say “decrease funding for police” but that’s not exactly a sound bite. You are upset about the semantics rather than the point. Are there people who don’t want police at all? Sure but that’s more fringe than you make it out to be. Hell @immortal13 doesn’t want police at all and from my memory he isn’t a liberal.

Well then maybe you should take them at their word. There’s plenty of information about the defund the police “movement”, for lack of a better word, that you can find. Research, data, solutions, etc. that is specifically about massive reforms and changing police. Not abolishing them.

keep editing

I'm not upset.  the relative average intelligence of everyone involved is shitty

defund the police crowd - dumbasses

cops - not smart

criminals - dumber than both the defund the police crowd and cops

when you have dumb people interacting with each other you get bad outcomes.  

[hobbes2702 12771]

Just now, LebongJames said:

That’s a really one sided view of what our police forces do. I feel that cop murdered Floyd and others have as well but that doesn’t completely devalue what the other men and women do on a daily basis.

Have you ever needed the police? Have you had a friend or family member be the victim of a violent crime? Have you had personal property stolen from you? 

Get the fuck out of here with your completely on side view of the world of police are bad and do no good.

No one said it devalues what they do. It means the consequences for thei action are too severe to have fuckups. You are simply refusing to see how the minority communities in this country view police. 
 

I have needed a police officer before yes. That’s literally my point. They need to exist but they need to exist for the things they can actually help with. Their presence in communities is too high which leads to too many interactions with civilians for no reason.

I have literally never once said that police are bad and do nothing good. Not once. If you would like to have an adult conversation about this than that is fine I’m all ears but if you’re going to create straw men to argue then I’ll pass.

[Cajun 11675]

1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

Are you under the impression that police solve violent crimes? Because if so you clearly do not understand what they are good at and what they are not.

I'm as much of an anti-cop pitbull on this site as anyone, and even I can admit that there are plenty of violent crimes solved by HEROES.  ATX would still have Fed-Ex offices blowing up left and right if that weren't so.  I could go on.

Too often the reason cops are fucksticks is because of lazy, binary, broad brush groupthink.  "You're either a perp or good citizen!", no in-between.  It's that "Lead, follow, or get outta the way!" low rpm, chimpanzee-esque "logic".  No nuance allowed.

Let's not be the same thing in reverse here.

[Cajun 11675]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

keep editing

I'm not upset.  the relative average intelligence of everyone involved is shitty

defund the police crowd - dumbasses

cops - not smart

criminals - dumber than both the defund the police crowd and cops

when you have dumb people interacting with each other you get bad outcomes.  

Strong post.

[immortal13 4059]

At least de-militerize the police. Why the fuck do they need MRAPs and automatic weapons? What's next: tanks and RPG's?

[hobbes2702 12771]

Just now, Cajun said:

I'm as much of an anti-cop pitbull on this site as anyone, and even I can admit that there are plenty of violent crimes solved by HEROES.  ATX would still have Fed-Ex offices blowing up left and right if that weren't so.  I could go on.

Too often the reason cops are fucksticks is because of lazy, binary, broad brush groupthink.  "You're either a perp or good citizen!", no in-between.  It's that "Lead, follow, or get outta the way!" low rpm, chimpanzee-esque "logic".  No nuance allowed.

Let's not be the same thing in reverse here.

They don’t solve violent crimes at a high rate, they solve property crimes at an even lower rate. If we take funding from the bullshit that wastes their money we can invest more in things that they are needed for so they are better at them. Saying they should be better has nothing to do with saying they are all bad. That’s absolute bullshit. Saying our LT needs to do a better job doesn’t mean the entire oline sucks. It does however mean the entire oline needs to do a “better” job. Whether that’s holding their counterpart accountable or picking up his dead weight is the decision that has to be made. Cops choose to carry their dead weight which makes us holding them accountable impossible without massive changes.

[Cajun 11675]

4 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Sorry bro, but the safer bet is to not call the police and protect yourself if necessary.  Calling the cops has become an absolute last resort for me. They simply can't be trusted, and I can't tell which ones are "good". They all look the same to me

I felt the same way until my daughter was basically kidnapped by my ex from her middle school last Spring.

Had a group of really good dudes from APD and one from AISD helping me to find her.

Now the resource officer at her school who "didn't wanna get involved"?  Yeah, he represented the shit-heal LEOs nicely.

[Cajun 11675]

2 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

At least de-militerize the police. Why the fuck do they need MRAPs and automatic weapons? What's next: tanks and RPG's?

No argument here.

And zero tolerance on steroids with quarterly madatory testing.

[hobbes2702 12771]

6 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

keep editing

I'm not upset.  the relative average intelligence of everyone involved is shitty

defund the police crowd - dumbasses

cops - not smart

criminals - dumber than both the defund the police crowd and cops

when you have dumb people interacting with each other you get bad outcomes.  

Oh man I had to make some edits. I guess that completely dismissed the entire point of what I said huh.

[immortal13 4059]

1 minute ago, Cajun said:

I felt the same way until my daughter was basically kidnapped by my ex from her middle school last Spring.

Had a group of really good dudes from APD and one from AISD helping me to find her.

Now the resource officer at her school who "didn't wanna get involved"?  Yeah, he represented the shit-heal LEOs nicely.

Ok, that would qualify as a last resort

[dcar00 14023]

12 minutes ago, LebongJames said:

That’s a really one sided view of what our police forces do. I feel that cop murdered Floyd and others have as well but that doesn’t completely devalue what the other men and women do on a daily basis.

Have you ever needed the police? Have you had a friend or family member be the victim of a violent crime? Have you had personal property stolen from you? 

Get the fuck out of here with your completely one sided view of the world of police are bad and do no good.

this. and I guess no one understand the difference between a police officer and a detective.  the intelligence level in the US is at an all time low that is for sure.

[dcar00 14023]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

Oh man I had to make some edits. I guess that completely dismissed the entire point of what I said huh.

no, it wasn't the edits...

[hobbes2702 12771]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

no, it wasn't the edits...

Well since the average intelligence of everyone involved in the discussion is below you please feel free to bring some ideas to the table. There’s been plenty of civil discussion about differences of opinion on what to do. You’re the only one being high and mighty here.

[hobbes2702 12771]

9 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

At least de-militerize the police. Why the fuck do they need MRAPs and automatic weapons? What's next: tanks and RPG's?

I think they have those already lol

[Cajun 11675]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

They don’t solve violent crimes at a high rate, they solve property crimes at an even lower rate. If we take funding from the bullshit that wastes their money we can invest more in things that they are needed for so they are better at them. Saying they should be better has nothing to do with saying they are all bad. That’s absolute bullshit. Saying our LT needs to do a better job doesn’t mean the entire oline sucks. It does however mean the entire oline needs to do a “better” job. Whether that’s holding their counterpart accountable or picking up his dead weight is the decision that has to be made. Cops choose to carry their dead weight which makes us holding them accountable impossible without massive changes.

I gotcha hobbes.  I was thinking of murder and well publicized violent crimes.  If my memory serves, they solve 60% of murders, but that leaves out a ton of other violent crime and I'm not here to argue on that one.

I get the defunding thing, I really do.  I am just of the camp that is an overcorrection.  I freely admit I might be wrong about it, though.

What I think is more realistic in the greater scheme is to have the immunities that they enjoy removed completely.  DAs too.  Like Brisket has put forward, if you lie, frame, conceal, etc to get a conviction or to deprive someone of their life/liberty and it is shown beyond reasonable doubt that you did so, well, you get to enjoy the maximum sentence that the person you were trying to fuck over/kill was staring down the barrel of because of your bullshit.

And while we're at it, once it gets to civil court, old Saul Goodman has absolute freedom to go after you for everything he can get AND if it's not enough then the old Police Pension is more than fair game.

Start there.

[Cajun 11675]

9 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Ok, that would qualify as a last resort

Touche

[hobbes2702 12771]

4 minutes ago, Cajun said:

I gotcha hobbes.  I was thinking of murder and well publicized violent crimes.  If my memory serves, they solve 60% of murders, but that leaves out a ton of other violent crime and I'm not here to argue on that one.

I get the defunding thing, I really do.  I am just of the camp that is an overcorrection.  I freely admit I might be wrong about it, though.

What I think is more realistic in the greater scheme is to have the immunities that they enjoy removed completely.  DAs too.  Like Brisket has put forward, if you lie, frame, conceal, etc to get a conviction or to deprive someone of their life/liberty and it is shown beyond reasonable doubt that you did so, well, you get to enjoy the maximum sentence that the person you were trying to fuck over/kill was staring down the barrel of because of your bullshit.

And while we're at it, once it gets to civil court, old Saul Goodman has absolute freedom to go after you for everything he can get AND if it's not enough then the old Police Pension is more than fair game.

Start there.

National clearance rate for murder is 46% which honestly in my mind is really not bad. I cannot imagine murders are easy to solve. Or any crime for that matter. It’s a hard job. Wasting the resourcing on things we really don’t need them for makes it harder.

100%. Police immunity/police unions are the first step in my opinion. And I especially agree about making them liable for civil suits. It’s egregious the lack of accountability. 

 

[DallasGatr 216]

I felt the same way until my daughter was basically kidnapped by my ex from her middle school last Spring.

Had a group of really good dudes from APD and one from AISD helping me to find her.

Now the resource officer at her school who "didn't wanna get involved"?  Yeah, he represented the shit-heal LEOs nicely.

I’ll bet that resource officer was pounding your ex. (Or at least trying to.)

[dcar00 14023]

47 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Well since the average intelligence of everyone involved in the discussion is below you please feel free to bring some ideas to the table. There’s been plenty of civil discussion about differences of opinion on what to do. You’re the only one being high and mighty here.

I'm not talking about you even though you were the one trying to thread the  defund vs. abolish needle and saying that maybe people should understand the definitions.  so who's being high and mighty.

that said, kill the unions(all unions suck in general principle), pay the street cops more but lower pensions, start using tazer/stun guns early when people try to resist arrest, body cam 24/7, educate in schools early how police act.

there also IMO there needs to be a separate group that comes in once a person resists but is controlled and takes them to jail and lets the beat cop move on.

Edit: moving to the fix the police thread

Edited June 7, 2020 by dcar00

[wood 11103]

1 hour ago, hobbes2702 said:

So tell me when did “defund” and “abolish“ take on the same meaning? Sounds like the enemies should look up what words actually mean.

And I don’t think “drastically reduce police funding in favor of better programs that prevent violence and help communities” is quite as catchy.

If abolishing the police is not the goal, then maybe the protesters at that rally shouldn't have been carrying "Police Abolition Now" signs and openly calling for the Mayor to abolish the police force, and then booing him & telling him to gtfo when he wouldn't agree to same.

[hobbes2702 12771]

2 minutes ago, wood said:

If abolishing the police is not the goal, then maybe the protesters at that rally shouldn't have been carrying "Police Abolition Now" signs and openly calling for the Mayor to abolish the police force, and then booing him & telling him to gtfo when he wouldn't agree to same.

Ok 👍🏻 

[Cajun 11675]

2 hours ago, immortal13 said:

I have actually heard a cop say that they are the only thing protecting the citizens from the monsters out there. I think a lot of them truly believe that and have a very warped view of their role in life

Many of them really believe this.  These are the kinds that beat off to Chris Kyle's "Sheepdog" speech.

I guess they figure that some rabid sheepdogs amongst their ranks are just part of the deal and that we "sheep" should just accept their butchery while the rest of the "sheepdog" pretend it's not a thing.

[TexasMan 10783]

Nothing but respect for my president

 

 

 

[Message Board User 12389]

 

[Tex Long 4325]

2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

National clearance rate for murder is 46% which honestly in my mind is really not bad. I cannot imagine murders are easy to solve.

Daughter had a boyfriend who was APD Homicide cop. He said about nine out of ten times, the murderer was sitting at the table with the rest of the family, bawling like a baby over having killed his favorite nephew, wife, or whatever. No investigating needed, just processing. The other ten percent of the time... about half of those fell under the "bad guy, needed killing" and just got filed and might be pulled out later if they had the guy on something else and wanted more. The other half were either non-family business or love triangle stuff and mostly only got handled if they could get a confession, even if they were damn sure who done it, because open-shut admissible proof isn't all that easy to find. He told me the worst part of his job was getting called out to damn near every fucking fatal car wreck and deaths in fires, just to see if there was anything suspicious.

 

 

[EuroHorn 3204]

4 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

 

Can’t wait to see how this works out 

[hobbes2702 12771]

2 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

Can’t wait to see how this works out 

Probably pretty well

[hobbes2702 12771]

You guys act as though you’re gonna call 911 and get no answer. That simply won’t be how this works. You’ll get the person qualified to handle your situation.

[Iceman 2629]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

You guys act as though you’re gonna call 911 and get no answer. That simply won’t be how this works. You’ll get the person qualified to handle your situation.

LOLz.  Regardless of position in this discussion, that right there is fucking funny.

[Kilgorehorn 308]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

You guys act as though you’re gonna call 911 and get no answer. That simply won’t be how this works. You’ll get the person qualified to handle your situation.

I called 911 from work one night and was put on hold. I live in a town of about 12000 people.

[mdmost 42747]

That's pretty awesome. It might fail but it could also succeed and clear the way for other cities to reorganize police. Pretty sure on this thread we've seen people bemoan the leadership in these cities and how the voters never demand action from their elected officials. Seems that's about to change in Minneapolis. 

[hobbes2702 12771]

Just now, Kilgorehorn said:

I called 911 from work one night and was put on hold. I live in a town of about 12000 people.

So you can see the current option isn’t exactly exceptional.

[wood 11103]

7 minutes ago, EuroHorn said:

Can’t wait to see how this works out 

What could go wrong?

[hobbes2702 12771]

Just now, wood said:

What could go wrong?

That’s true, it could get so bad they people start getting shot, or choked, or strangled for committing the crime of being black. What could go wrong indeed 

[wood 11103]

1 minute ago, Kilgorehorn said:

I called 911 from work one night and was put on hold. I live in a town of about 12000 people.

FYI your chances of getting put on hold in a town that size are probably greater than they are in a bigger city with a fully-staffed 911 center. Little towns like that often only have 1 or 2 people on duty, working both the phones and radios for Police, Fire, and EMS.

[NoRagrets 1125]

I don’t get it. How could this possibly work?

[MNLonghornFUKM 8799]

Probably pretty well

Especially during domestics

[South Austin 52035]

Pretty sure we’re going to see a significant increase in jaywalking in Minneapolis. 

[Guest Lobo]

"What's the fucking charge, they throw you out of a moving car?...Jaywalking?"  

[Deej 76476]

Tickets for 1 mph over the speed limit if they get defunded.

[Iceman 2629]

4 minutes ago, Deej said:

Tickets for 1 mph over the speed limit if they get defunded.

Ok...I am officially against now.

[Js1 85050]

24 minutes ago, mdmost said:

That's pretty awesome. It might fail but it could also succeed and clear the way for other cities to reorganize police. Pretty sure on this thread we've seen people bemoan the leadership in these cities and how the voters never demand action from their elected officials. Seems that's about to change in Minneapolis. 

The people saying it’ll be a disaster and everything will go wrong without offering new ideas:

[Armybrat 40677]

Tossing in a potential addition to current events, Red’s Gun Range was burgled by a couple of dudes Wednesday night and stole 32 firearms.

Another gun range/shop near Love Field in Dallas was also broken into with a loss of 46 firearms.

May not be a problem for a while, as the most common calibers have been sold out almost everywhere since March because of the Corona apocalypse.

[Parliament 14107]

Hey, this is how democracy works.  It's got a mob-rule feel, but so what.  If Minneapolis descends to chaos, it won't affect us at all.  If it somehow works, we can just copy it.

[Steel Shank 9405]

So would the agreement with the police union be null and void?

[Message Board User 12389]

43 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Especially during domestics

Since it sounds like you're on your own there, have you replenished your arsenal?

[Armybrat 40677]

Look at what happened in Baltimore in 2015 when the mayor told the cops to ease up on making arrests.... the murder rate shot up into the 50s per 100,000 and have stayed there since.

Citizens and politicians better be very careful what they are asking for.

[Message Board User 12389]

Just now, Armybrat said:

Look at what happened in Baltimore in 2015 when the mayor told the cops to ease up on making arrests.... the murder rate shot up into the 50s per 100,000 and have stayed there since.

Citizens and politicians better be very careful what they are asking for.

Yep - was just about to post this.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/07/12/baltimore-police-not-noticing-crime-after-freddie-gray-wave-killings-followed/744741002/

[Longhorn 145]

 

36 minutes ago, Js1 said:

The people saying it’ll be a disaster and everything will go wrong without offering new ideas:

 You might want to have the new ideas considered and vetted before defunding the department. Lots of early retirements and officers quitting to go to other towns/forces starting Monday. Whatever the ideas are, the better be shovel ready.