Have you or a family member been a victim of illegal police violence?

[Brisketexan 105,142]

I asked this question on the Minneapolis thread, because reading that story brought some memories flooding back to me.  Didn't happen to me (directly), but happened to my dad.

My dad worked for the Federal Gov't when I was a kid.  His territory included all the surrounding states, so he was on the road a lot.  He spent a lot of time in Louisiana, and traveled that stretch of I-10 hundreds of times.  He'd often be gone during the week, and would return Friday later afternoon or early evening.

One Friday, when I was around 10, he didn't come home at the expected time.  Or hours later.  My mother sat, nervously waiting, growing more fearful by the second.  Had he been in a wreck?  Was he dead?  No phone call.  No nothing.  She eventually told me to go to bed.  I did, but sure as hell didn't sleep.  Sometime well after midnight, the phone rang -- she answered.  The entire conversation was [not using my dad's real name here] "Juan is in jail in Anahuac, Texas." Click.  That's it.  That's all we got.  BUT, we at least knew he was alive.  My mother was beside herself.

She called some of my dad's oilpatch buddies, because she had no idea what to do.  By 6:00 a.m., we had a posse at our house, coming up with a plan.  These were rough and tumble good old boys, and cool under pressure.  We caravanned to Anahuac, and pulled up at the jail.  Our friend I knew as "uncle Hal" went inside with my mom.  After an hour or so, they came out, telling us that the staff insisted he wasn't there.  But Hal wasn't buying it.  I really don't remember what transpired next -- I know they kept at it.  We were in Hal's Winnebago, and I remember some of the guys talking about the logistics of an actual jailbreak to bust him out.  Hal went back in.  And sometime mid-afternoon, he came out with my dad, who looked pretty haggard. But he tried to keep his tone pleasant, not letting on how upset he was.

Over the next day or two, I got pieces of the whole story (I doubt I ever got it all, and I've never brought it up with him as an adult).  On his way back, on that stretch of I-10, he got pulled over for speeding (not a big surprise, my family ain't shy behind the wheel).  The local cop insisted that my dad was drunk.  Dad responded rather strongly that no damned way was he drunk, he hadn't even had a drink (again, not a surprise -- my old man was never a big drinker.  We'd usually have a 12 pack in the fridge for guests, and it would often last for months).  Whatever he said, it pissed the cop off even more.  At some point, he cuffed my dad.  Dad explained again that no way was he drunk or drinking, he was still on US gov't business, and wouldn't do that - here, you can see my gov't ID and my paperwork.  Problem: his ID and TDL have a mexican-ass name on them.  Cop didn't take kindly to being mouthed off to by a spic.

Later on, Hal and my dad went back there and found the ID and some of the paperwork in the ditch, where the cop had tossed it when he threw the entire briefcase contents there, and started beating on my old man.

In the back of the cop car on the way to jail, dad realized he was in some serious shit.  He managed to get to his wallet, get a $20 out, and stash it in his shoe.  When he got to the jail, he asked to be able to call his family, who would be worried sick.  Yeah, that was a hard "no."  Once he ended up in his cell, he used the $20 to bribe a jailer to call us.  That was the call we got.

When he got out, he was bailed out under a DUI charge.  The report had him blowing well over the legal limit.  When Hal asked him about it on the ride home, my dad didn't hesitate: "I didn't blow in any goddamned breathalyzer.  And if I did, it wouldn't have found anything."  So, a completely faked breathalyzer.

Two days later, the bruises really showed up.  I remember my mother taking pictures of my dad in the backyard, with no shirt on.  He lifted his arms, and I gasped to see the size of the bruises on his side (where the cop had punched and kicked him while his hands were cuffed).  They were huge - like the size of a football.

Some months later, as the case was progressing, we got a call from the FBI.  They were investigating the local PD, and wanted dad's story.  Dad was fucking terrified.  He still had to drive that stretch of road almost weekly.  He shared the info with his lawyer, who got the DUI charge dealt down to speeding, which was important -- a DUI would have cost my dad his job, and we sure as shit didn't trust the Liberty County judicial system.  So, he used the FBI investigation as leverage to get a result to keep his job, and never looked back.

But somewhere in East Texas is a cop who beat the everloving shit out of my mexican dad, and fucking got away with it.  And there's damned well a bunch of others who knew what he'd done, and had seen him do the same to other people.  And they let it keep happening to protect him.  So, every time I see a cop, I get to wonder if that's one of them?  Maybe this guy was trained by one of them?

I don't know what my dad thinks.  I haven't asked him.  I have too much respect for his dignity to do so.  But Anahuac cop, if you're still out there and breathing.....fuck you.  I hope you rot in fucking hell.

Oh, and as a FN, I hunt and fish all over Texas, and always have.  And I know those cops are out there.  When we were young married, I told my wife that if she ever gets a call from me where I said "call Tigar," I meant to call my old law prof Michael Tigar, and bring a camera crew because some bad shit went down.  That was 25 years ago.  I'd have her call someone else now, but the message remains the same.  That's just something you have to keep in mind when you have my last name and travel in Texas/America.

Edited May 27, 2020 by Brisketexan

[Jerry Callo 8,703]

Damn, Brisket.  If you're looking for a posse to head to the armpit of Texas and burn something down, I'm in.

[Iceman 2,713]

No. I have never been arrested, nor has anyone in my immediate family.
 

But it is not remotely unreasonable to have an expectation of being treated with professionalism and civility when the citizen is compliant with LE.   That’s the bottom line, IMHO.

[Underdog 28,639]

Been arrested twice, first time APD did their best "scared straight" bit on me, I was 17 and a friend an I went into Crocket HS and did a little vandalism with some spray paint in a bathroom, stupid I know.  This one cop kept fucking with me on my fingerprints, getting me in and out of jail constantly to redo them.  I was fine until I saw my folks later that night and cried like a bitch to them.   Since I had a record, 2nd arrest was a case of mistaken identity.  A lady pointed me out from the mugshot book as someone who was apart of busting down an apartment door at her complex, being the thin as a rail white pussy, cops got a kick out of it when I turned my self in, they had called the house first.   I ended up having to get my record expunged. 

Back in my Church's manager days, me and other managers met up once a week at Doris Miller Rec to play ball for a couple of hours, one time after playing we were gathered around my truck when this black officer pulled up and got in my face thinking it was a drug deal going down, even accused me of throwing something under my truck.  Needless to say I was in shock and speechless, the other fellas came to my rescue but it took a while to come this cop down.  

Other than those, never had any issues with police, always wished them to be safe out there even after getting a ticket from them.  Went down the wrong way on a street near campus one night and me and a buddy were drinking(not drunk or buzze), got pulled over, passed the field test and was told to discard the beer which I did and went on our way.  

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

Nothing like that.  But at 16 I was following my dad back from South Texas in my first car, a POS Honda Civic I paid $1,000 for.  I was behind my dad and following him.  He was the type that would literally drive two miles under the speed limit.  So we weren't speeding.  It was in December and really cold and  around 10 p.m.  Some small town cop around Robstown pulled me over.  My first time being pulled over.  He asked me to get out of the car.  I complied.  He patted me down and had me stand near back of car while his partner searched my car (without permission or even asking) and ran my plates.  

My dad was in front and pulled off a mile away to wait for me.

I was scared even though I had no reason to be.  I absolutely did not mouth off, I had just spent a year at military school so "yes, sir" and "no, sir" were said about 20 times to this cop.  I asked him if I could get my jacket out of the car.  It was so cold and I had been standing outside for 30 minutes.  He told me to fuck off and pushed me to the ground.  I was a skinny kid.  6'2" and maybe 150 pounds.

I've never had much use for police.  And being exposed to HPD professionally for a year once a week as a volunteer prosecutor of speeding tickets and minor car wrecks engrained more distrust in the law.  Quite a few were straight up corrupt and liars.  Like a significant portion.  10-15%.  The rest knew their fellow cops were dirty and gave zero fucks and covered for them.  The best of the lot were the black cops, honestly.

One DA tried to do something about the blatant corruption that was going on in the muni courts.  Basically, cops were writing bs tickets and putting a couple of their coworkers as witnesses on the tickets.  So they could all come to court once a week and be available for testimony.  They were bilking the city for overtime.  They would then largely claim they did not remember the case and most would get dismissed.  They did this so they could go work their side jobs working security why they were signed in and supposed to be available to testify if their case got called.  The assistant DA reported it.  Well one of the assholes he reported on stalked him every night for weeks.  And once when the guy was leaving a bar, busted him for DWI.  These guys scammed the city for years.  They got busted in 2012 but were doing it long before I was there as a baby lawyer in 2004.  Millions they stole.  Got short unpaid suspensions.

https://abc13.com/archive/8818839/

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Four-suspended-HPD-officers-used-ticket-scheme-to-3877815.php

[Gourmand 7,774]

 I was falsely arrested the night of Feb 15, 2001 by the crooked APD cops on the 6th St beat. 

I was working at a restaurant downtown at the time. I got a call that day from my old UT buddy/former roommate who was visiting Austin from NYC where he had recently graduated from NYU Law, passed the bar and was about to embark on successful law career. One of our friend's bands was playing that night at the Red Eyed Fly and my buddy wanted to meet up after I got off work. I get off just in time to meet him twenty minutes or so after midnight, we share a couple of beers and catch up. I offer to give him a ride back to his sister's place and we start walking back to my car. 

It's shortly after 2am when all the bars have let out and as we are walking past the Iron Cactus (catty corner from that area the cops congregated outside Paradise), a small fight breaks out between a couple of douchebros. These meatheads aren't even exchanging blows, they're just grappling and whatnot. We are not involved in this fight in any way, just happen to be passing by. Wrong place, wrong time. I remember turning to my buddy and sharing a laugh at the ridiculousness of those two fools going at it when all of a sudden there's a big commotion and I see a swarm of cops descend on the corner we were standing. Motherfuckers started pepper spraying indiscriminately with no concern about who was actually fighting and who was simply a bystander. Quite a few innocent people got hit by their spray, including a number of young women, and my buddy pivoted and turned to one of the cops and said "whoa whoa whoa what are you doing???!" and just like that BAAAAMMM they slammed him to the ground.

As far as I could tell, every cop then turned their attention from the douchebros fighting to beat the shit out of my friend as I stood there helplessly watching. They had him down on the ground, quickly cuffed him, sprayed him in the face with pepper spray, and proceeded to pummel him with knee blows to his ribs and kidneys while shoving his face into the pavement. They're doing the patented cop routine of "stop resisting so I can kick your fucking ass" so if my buddy even flinched they would give him another blow.  My friend is an average sized guy, probably 5'10 190-200 at the time, and his Derek Chauvin was easily 6'4" 250+lbs. Well, obviously he's gonna move because they're beating the shit out of him for no reason except MUH AUTHORITAH. At no time did he ever do anything aggressive to those officers. They had four of them on him and his hands cuffed behind his back.The whole time they're doing this, I'm pleading with an officer on the periphery (much like the Asian American officer in the Floyd video) that my friend didn't do anything, he wasn't fighting, why are you doing this to him etc etc. The officer I'm pleading with gives me instructions about keeping my distance etc. I show him my hands and assure him that I have no intent of disobeying his orders, I'm not moving towards him or the other officers, I just want them to stop beating up my friend. Why are you guys doing this??????

So they stand my friend up and he's bleeding from the nose, his face is red and watery from the peppery spray, he's asking for water and they're laughing at him. I yelled out 'that's a bunch of fucking bullshit!!" and the big Chauvin cop hears me and immediately heads towards me with this crazed look on his face. He then spins me around forcefully, cuffs me and says something like "you're going down too!" I notice the cop I'd been pleading with drop his head and shake it as if to say, wtf man. But he didn't stop him.

My buddy and I get put in separate squad cars and there's a crowd on the street that had witnessed my arrest and I can hear a bunch of people jeering the cops. The officer driving my car asks one of the other officers why he's taking me in and the response is basically met with "Andrew, man..."  

They drive us to the police garage (this was back when the old jail shared the building with APD headquarters) and get us out of the cars to check us for weapons, drugs etc before walking us into booking. My buddy is standing a few feet away, surrounded by a three or four cops, and he's understandably pissed off so he makes the mistake of saying "you fucked with the wrong guy, I'm a lawyer, I'm gonna have your fucking badge...."  I will never forget the appalling behavior after he said that. They started laughing at him, calling him names, and one of them actually adopted a karate fighting stance with his arms up and his right leg raised and yelled out "hiiiiiiiiiiiiaaaaah" or something. They couldn't just let the remark pass, as if beating the shit out of him wasn't good enough. It was truly bizarre. I couldn't believe the pathetic, unprofessional, juvenile jackboot goonery on display. Right then I knew what shit I was in and made sure to shut the fuck up and be as nice as possible because these guys weren't in the least bit concerned about anyone checking their authority.

My buddy gets charged with felony assault of a police officer and they charged me with misdemeanor B interfering with the duties of a police officer. For doing nothing but witnessing my friend get assaulted by police and yelling out "that's a bunch of fucking bullshit!" We get booked, strip searched, and sent to jail. We are put in different cells but I can hear my friend and can talk to him and at some later point he tells me that he's in a lot of pain, he thinks he broke a rib and he's been pissing blood.

I've never been arrested before, I don't know what I need to do, so I just listen to the advice of the others in jail and the jail staff. Everyone tells me the same thing. Misdemeanor B?? Just be patient, you don't need an attorney, you'll be out of here in no time as soon as you get magistrated. However, what none of them realize is that I'm in jail with an accused cop attacker on the same night that a Travis County Sheriff's Deputy (Keith Ruiz) is shot and killed executing a drug search warrant in Del Valle. Those fucking cops buried my paperwork so I could not actually get in front of a judge. I spent two nights in jail and watched an entire cell block change TWICE. The jail guards were asking me "what are you still doing here?" That was the point when I got my family  on the phone and said get me a lawyer and get me the fuck out of here. 

The charge against me was dropped of course but that didn't change what I went through or how powerless and small I felt against the thin blue line and the code that protects them from calling each other out. My friend's charges were dropped as well but went through hell fighting his case because that piece of shit dirtbag cop Andrew W. actually had the audacity to sue my friend for completely fabricated injuries he claimed he received in the incident. (Sidenote: that asshole motherfucker retired from APD a couple of years ago with his full pension intact and enjoys motorcycles and travel and kicking newborn puppies).

I wasn't exactly naive about police corruption and misconduct before Feb 15th, 2001, but actually living through an experience where you know your civil rights were violated and you can't do a goddamn thing about it is something you never forget. 

But I didn't get shot or suffocated.....

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Gourmand

[FartingMonk 3,606]

Yeah.  I was stationed in Hawaii at the time.  Walking down Waikiki beach towards my condo smoking a cigarette.  Get told by the cop I wasn't allowed to smoke.  I told him it's a cigarette not weed.  Next thing I know am in handcuffs after I get body slammed to the floor.  His partner takes out his extendable baton and whips my thigh and says quit resisting.  As soon as I heard those buzzwords my training from reaction force school came in.  They taught us as part of the security force(it's a 6 week security course taught by police academy instructors) if you are going to beat the shit out of someone, you tell back off, quit resisting in case you are being filmed.  I yelled I'm not resisting.  I'm handcuffed someone film this.  Ended up throwing me in the back of their squad car for 45 minutes before letting me go with a warning.  I still think if I didn't tell those dudes would have beaten the shit out of me.  Woke up with a huge bruise on my thigh

[TwiceHorn 31,472]

39 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

 I was falsely arrested the night of Feb 15, 2001 by the crooked APD cops on the 6th St beat. 

I was working at a restaurant downtown at the time. I got a call that day from my old UT buddy/former roommate who was visiting Austin from NYC where he had recently graduated from NYU Law, passed the bar and was about to embark on successful law career. One of our friend's bands was playing that night at the Red Eyed Fly and my buddy wanted to meet up after I got off work. I get off just in time to meet him twenty minutes or so after midnight, we share a couple of beers and catch up. I offer to give him a ride back to his sister's place and we start walking back to my car. 

It's shortly after 2am when all the bars have let out and as we are walking past the Iron Cactus (catty corner from that area the cops congregated outside Paradise), a small fight breaks out between a couple of douchebros. These meatheads aren't even exchanging blows, they're just grappling and whatnot. We are not involved in this fight in any way, just happen to be passing by. Wrong place, wrong time. I remember turning to my buddy and sharing a laugh at the ridiculousness of those two fools going at it when all of a sudden there's a big commotion and I see a swarm of cops descend on the corner we were standing. Motherfuckers started pepper spraying indiscriminately with no concern about who was actually fighting and who was simply a bystander. Quite a few innocent people got hit by their spray, including a number of young women, and my buddy pivoted and turned to one of the cops and said "whoa whoa whoa what are you doing???!" and just like that BAAAAMMM they slammed him to the ground.

As far as I could tell, every cop then turned their attention from the douchebros fighting to beat the shit out of my friend as I stood there helplessly watching. They had him down on the ground, quickly cuffed him, sprayed him in the face with pepper spray, and proceeded to pummel him with knee blows to his ribs and kidneys while shoving his face into the pavement. They're doing the patented cop routine of "stop resisting so I can kick your fucking ass" so if my buddy even flinched they would give him another blow.  My friend is an average sized guy, probably 5'10 190-200 at the time, and his Derek Chauvin was easily 6'4" 250+lbs. Well, obviously he's gonna move because they're beating the shit out of him for no reason except MUH AUTHORITAH. At no time did he ever do anything aggressive to those officers. They had four of them on him and his hands cuffed behind his back.The whole time they're doing this, I'm pleading with an officer on the periphery (much like the Asian American officer in the Floyd video) that my friend didn't do anything, he wasn't fighting, why are you doing this to him etc etc. The officer I'm pleading with gives me instructions about keeping my distance etc. I show him my hands and assure him that I have no intent of disobeying his orders, I'm not moving towards him or the other officers, I just want them to stop beating up my friend. Why are you guys doing this??????

So they stand my friend up and he's bleeding from the nose, his face is red and watery from the peppery spray, he's asking for water and they're laughing at him. I yelled out 'that's a bunch of fucking bullshit!!" and the big Chauvin cop hears me and immediately heads towards me with this crazed look on his face. He then spins me around forcefully, cuffs me and says something like "you're going down too!" I notice the cop I'd been pleading with drop his head and shake it as if to say, wtf man. But he didn't stop him.

My buddy and I get put in separate squad cars and there's a crowd on the street that had witnessed my arrest and I can hear a bunch of people jeering the cops. The officer driving my car asks one of the other officers why he's taking me in and the response is basically met with "Andrew, man..."  

They drive us to the police garage (this was back when the old jail shared the building with APD headquarters) and get us out of the cars to check us for weapons, drugs etc before walking us into booking. My buddy is standing a few feet away, surrounded by a three or four cops, and he's understandably pissed off so he makes the mistake of saying "you fucked with the wrong guy, I'm a lawyer, I'm gonna have your fucking badge...."  I will never forget the appalling behavior after he said that. They started laughing at him, calling him names, and one of them actually adopted a karate fighting stance with his arms up and his right leg raised and yelled out "hiiiiiiiiiiiiaaaaah" or something. They couldn't just let the remark pass, as if beating the shit out of him wasn't good enough. It was truly bizarre. I couldn't believe the pathetic, unprofessional, juvenile jackboot goonery on display. Right then I knew what shit I was in and made sure to shut the fuck up and be as nice as possible because these guys weren't in the least bit concerned about anyone checking their authority.

My buddy gets charged with felony assault of a police officer and they charged me with misdemeanor B interfering with the duties of a police officer. For doing nothing but witnessing my friend get assaulted by police and yelling out "that's a bunch of fucking bullshit!" We get booked, strip searched, and sent to jail. We are put in different cells but I can hear my friend and can talk to him and at some later point he tells me that he's in a lot of pain, he thinks he broke a rib and he's been pissing blood.

I've never been arrested before, I don't know what I need to do, so I just listen to the advice of the others in jail and the jail staff. Everyone tells me the same thing. Misdemeanor B?? Just be patient, you don't need an attorney, you'll be out of here in no time as soon as you get magistrated. However, what none of them realize is that I'm in jail with an accused cop attacker on the same night that a Travis County Sheriff's Deputy (Keith Ruiz) is shot and killed executing a drug search warrant in Del Valle. Those fucking cops buried my paperwork so I could not actually get in front of a judge. I spent two nights in jail and watched an entire cell block change TWICE. The jail guards were asking me "what are you still doing here?" That was the point when I got my family  on the phone and said get me a lawyer and get me the fuck out of here. 

The charge against me was dropped of course but that didn't change what I went through or how powerless and small I felt against the thin blue line and the code that protects them from calling each other out. My friend's charges were dropped as well but went through hell fighting his case because that piece of shit dirtbag cop Andrew W. actually had the audacity to sue my friend for completely fabricated injuries he claimed he received in the incident. (Sidenote: that asshole motherfucker retired from APD a couple of years ago with his full pension intact and enjoys motorcycles and travel and kicking newborn puppies).

I wasn't exactly naive about police corruption and misconduct before Feb 15th, 2001, but actually living through an experience where you know your civil rights were violated and you can't do a goddamn thing about it is something you never forget. 

But I didn't get shot or suffocated.....

 

 

 

That sucks.

However, your buddy pulling the lawyer card was some stupid fucking bullshit.  Probably lucky he didn't get pounded for that.

People who pull the lawyer card probably deserve to get their ass beat on general principles.

[Gourmand 7,774]

Yes, it was a mistake. That doesn't justify anything that they did.

By the way, the Mardi Gras 6th St "riot" happened exactly one week later. Those were the same cops.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[TornACL 7,698]

This whole thread gives me a "Police Truck" by Dead Kennedys vibe. 

[Hook1997 5,354]

10 minutes ago, Gourmand said:

Yes, it was a mistake. That doesn't justify anything that they did.

By the way, the Mardi Gras 6th St "riot" happened exactly one week later. Those were the same cops.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
 

I remember that one.  Mace being sprayed all over the place at anyone who was around.  We hid in the entry nook in front of the door of Coppertank until we could figure out how to get back to our car.  

Edited May 30, 2020 by Hook1997

[dcbc 14,484]

Damn, Brisket. That story is awful. I got nothin'. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by dcbc

[Armybrat 40,846]

That’s a horror story indeed, reminiscent of the klan days... as is this latest tragedy in Minnesota.

Only have been arrested once, in Mexico, but it was really just a farce. Was drinking in a bar with my Tec amigos when a fight broke out between a couple of them and some pinche cabrones from the NL state university over a working girl.

A bunch of cops swarmed into the place pretty quickly and arrested everybody in both groups including us non-combatants. They corraled all of us like the drunken sheep we were snd herded us across the little plaza into the substation tank. I was the only gringo in there with the puking drunk mob.

Of course I was scared shitless and was worried about the embarrassment it would cause my dad, an important official with Tec. So after an hour or so I pulled a 20 Peso bill out of my shoe (an olden days thing apparently) and waved it at the desk cop across the hall. He let me out, but said no to the rush of my friends who wound up spending the night there.

 

 

 

[pacman 7,355]

Nope.

I got caught stealing at 11. Dad paid a fine and we left.

Got pulled over after drinking at 17. Admitted to having a beer (lie) but told him exactly where he started following me and that made me nervous. He let me go.

Couple of MIP tickets without any escalation.

Half of my family is from the law enforcement side. My grandad was the most accomplished in his career and he definitely used the hard "r" when I was younger. I haven't seen that side of him in decades and I can't speak to how it affected his duties.

That side of the family, and their friends, have a ton of stories where they were personally let off by law enforcement connected to their family, mostly traffic tickets 

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

Get a CHL.  Seriously, you show a cop that and they instantly know you're not going to harm them (you cannot have much of anything on your record to qualify).  One of my good friends is black and has a CHL.  He told me the difference pre and post CHL with his treatment from cops is night and day.  It doesn't stop him from getting pulled over for driving while black.  But the cops treat him much better.

This shouldn't be necessary.  But I would recommend everyone get a CHL.  You don't have to even own a gun.  But it's amazing how cops let you off on speeding tickets and treat you better with a CHL.  I can tell a huge difference.

[Brisketexan 105,142]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Get a CHL.  Seriously, you show a cop that and they instantly know you're not going to harm them (you cannot have much of anything on your record to qualify).  One of my good friends is black and has a CHL.  He told me the difference pre and post CHL with his treatment from cops is night and day.  It doesn't stop him from getting pulled over for driving while black.  But the cops treat him much better.

This shouldn't be necessary.  But I would recommend everyone get a CHL.  You don't have to even own a gun.  But it's amazing how cops let you off on speeding tickets and treat you better with a CHL.  I can tell a huge difference.

Philando Castile begs to differ.

The rules are different if you're black.  

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Philando Castile begs to differ.

The rules are different if you're black.  

I'm not saying it's 100 percent.  But it does help with their attitudes.  Some cops act like shit because they're afraid.  There are things you can do, and no one says you should have to, that can lessen your risk of being killed or injured by a cop.

Having a CHL is one of those things.  So is doing certain things when pulled over, especially at night.  Roll down your windows.  Turn on your dome light. Turn off the engine.  Keep your hands on the steering wheel and stay in your car.

This wouldn't help Floyd.  It does help with jumpy cops, regardless of race.

[Bevo Num1 1,011]

 

 

 

No. I have never been arrested, nor has anyone in my immediate family.

 

But it is not remotely unreasonable to have an expectation of being treated with professionalism and civility when the citizen is compliant with LE.   That’s the bottom line, IMHO.

 

Serious questions: Have you ever been stopped and questioned by the police for no reason? Would you be fully compliant if they asked you to search your vehicle without probable cause?

 

[El Diablo 4,232]

Got arrested by the pigs in Norfolk, VA. They raided the motel room to get the film out of a camera that had pictures on it of their comrades beating the shit out of some poor sailor. Booked for drug possession. Charges dropped because the property room lost their evidence (there was no evidence, the whole thing was made up).

[Doc Reeves 6,434]

Yep. 
 

Also, my girlfriend was raped by a SAPD Lt. when I was 20. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Doc Reeves

[Iceman 2,713]

1 minute ago, Bevo Num1 said:

 

 

 

 

 

Serious questions: Have you ever been stopped and questioned by the police for no reason? Would you be fully compliant if they asked you to search your vehicle without probable cause?

 

1) Yes, although they said my headlight was out and it was not.  I was leaving a watering hole back in my early 20s at Tech and I know ole copper thought he had a DUI.  My cousin from out of town was with me and we both kept grinning like Pyle in Full Metal Jacket.  Finally the cop asks us, "WTF."   I just frankly told him, "Of all the times I've fucked up, today ain't the day.  We had wings and tea and that's it." he gave me a warning. I've also been questioned in my neighborhood while walking to the mailbox because I "matched a description..."   neither of these is remotely as heinous and fucked up as scenarios shared in the thread.   I am completely aware of that.

2) On the car search thing, I would ask them why they wanted to search the vehicle.   I have never had my vehicle tossed, although I have been asked to step out of the vehicle and they just visually checked out the inside.  I lean towards saying, "Not without a warrant,"  but the pragmatic side of me would consider just letting them look and getting back on the road for time's sake.  I say this knowing I have no weapons in the vehicle and zero drug paraphernalia.  They would find a shit-ton of stuff from my work as I am on the road almost every day.  FTR, I got pulled over for speeding Thursday morning. 58 in a 50, approaching, but not yet in a construction zone.  DPS officer asks where I was headed and I told him- 2 neighboring towns.  he asks me if I work for ( my employer) and as I had my name badge and a company logoed shirt on, as well as a crapton of point of sale in the back seat; I wanted to smart off and say something clever... but I did not.  i got a warning.

It's been my experience that DPS troopers are about 1000X more professional than local cops.  Could be just my experience.  Military cops are way the fuck nicer now when I visit post than when I was serving.  Never had a real problem with them either though.

[Armybrat 40,846]

In 1965 I was speeding up SanAntonio Street in West Campus. Cop pulled me over after several blocks. I was sure he had no clue how fast I was going (50+ in a 30 zone), but he wrote me a ticket for running a stop sign (I absolutely had not ). I didn’t complain though. However, It was the first time I realized that some cops really do lie. 

[High Plains Drifter 11,049]

 

When I was in HS, me and my running buddies got pulled over for some stupid shit I don't even remember. Cops made us all get out of the car and had us assume the position. Then they told us to kneel on our knees. I started to turn around and say something, and one of them hit me across the hamstrings with his asp baton. Hurt like a mother fucker. Huge bruises the next day.

 

They didn't even give us a ticket for whatever it was we were pulled over for.

 

edit; A couple of days later, my dad saw the bruises and asked me what happened. I told him it was from football practice lol.

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by High Plains Drifter

[dingleberryswitzer 2,724]

7 hours ago, Iceman said:

It's been my experience that DPS troopers are about 1000X more professional than local cops.

Mine too.  I've gotten pulled over three times by DPS, zero tickets.  Once I didn't even have my license.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

On 5/27/2020 at 1:01 PM, Brisketexan said:

I asked this question on the Minneapolis thread, because reading that story brought some memories flooding back to me.  Didn't happen to me (directly), but happened to my dad.

My dad worked for the Federal Gov't when I was a kid.  His territory included all the surrounding states, so he was on the road a lot.  He spent a lot of time in Louisiana, and traveled that stretch of I-10 hundreds of times.  He'd often be gone during the week, and would return Friday later afternoon or early evening.

One Friday, when I was around 10, he didn't come home at the expected time.  Or hours later.  My mother sat, nervously waiting, growing more fearful by the second.  Had he been in a wreck?  Was he dead?  No phone call.  No nothing.  She eventually told me to go to bed.  I did, but sure as hell didn't sleep.  Sometime well after midnight, the phone rang -- she answered.  The entire conversation was [not using my dad's real name here] "Juan is in jail in Anahuac, Texas." Click.  That's it.  That's all we got.  BUT, we at least knew he was alive.  My mother was beside herself.

She called some of my dad's oilpatch buddies, because she had no idea what to do.  By 6:00 a.m., we had a posse at our house, coming up with a plan.  These were rough and tumble good old boys, and cool under pressure.  We caravanned to Anahuac, and pulled up at the jail.  Our friend I knew as "uncle Hal" went inside with my mom.  After an hour or so, they came out, telling us that the staff insisted he wasn't there.  But Hal wasn't buying it.  I really don't remember what transpired next -- I know they kept at it.  We were in Hal's Winnebago, and I remember some of the guys talking about the logistics of an actual jailbreak to bust him out.  Hal went back in.  And sometime mid-afternoon, he came out with my dad, who looked pretty haggard. But he tried to keep his tone pleasant, not letting on how upset he was.

Over the next day or two, I got pieces of the whole story (I doubt I ever got it all, and I've never brought it up with him as an adult).  On his way back, on that stretch of I-10, he got pulled over for speeding (not a big surprise, my family ain't shy behind the wheel).  The local cop insisted that my dad was drunk.  Dad responded rather strongly that no damned way was he drunk, he hadn't even had a drink (again, not a surprise -- my old man was never a big drinker.  We'd usually have a 12 pack in the fridge for guests, and it would often last for months).  Whatever he said, it pissed the cop off even more.  At some point, he cuffed my dad.  Dad explained again that no way was he drunk or drinking, he was still on US gov't business, and wouldn't do that - here, you can see my gov't ID and my paperwork.  Problem: his ID and TDL have a mexican-ass name on them.  Cop didn't take kindly to being mouthed off to by a spic.

Later on, Hal and my dad went back there and found the ID and some of the paperwork in the ditch, where the cop had tossed it when he threw the entire briefcase contents there, and started beating on my old man.

In the back of the cop car on the way to jail, dad realized he was in some serious shit.  He managed to get to his wallet, get a $20 out, and stash it in his shoe.  When he got to the jail, he asked to be able to call his family, who would be worried sick.  Yeah, that was a hard "no."  Once he ended up in his cell, he used the $20 to bribe a jailer to call us.  That was the call we got.

When he got out, he was bailed out under a DUI charge.  The report had him blowing well over the legal limit.  When Hal asked him about it on the ride home, my dad didn't hesitate: "I didn't blow in any goddamned breathalyzer.  And if I did, it wouldn't have found anything."  So, a completely faked breathalyzer.

Two days later, the bruises really showed up.  I remember my mother taking pictures of my dad in the backyard, with no shirt on.  He lifted his arms, and I gasped to see the size of the bruises on his side (where the cop had punched and kicked him while his hands were cuffed).  They were huge - like the size of a football.

Some months later, as the case was progressing, we got a call from the FBI.  They were investigating the local PD, and wanted dad's story.  Dad was fucking terrified.  He still had to drive that stretch of road almost weekly.  He shared the info with his lawyer, who got the DUI charge dealt down to speeding, which was important -- a DUI would have cost my dad his job, and we sure as shit didn't trust the Liberty County judicial system.  So, he used the FBI investigation as leverage to get a result to keep his job, and never looked back.

But somewhere in East Texas is a cop who beat the everloving shit out of my mexican dad, and fucking got away with it.  And there's damned well a bunch of others who knew what he'd done, and had seen him do the same to other people.  And they let it keep happening to protect him.  So, every time I see a cop, I get to wonder if that's one of them?  Maybe this guy was trained by one of them?

I don't know what my dad thinks.  I haven't asked him.  I have too much respect for his dignity to do so.  But Anahuac cop, if you're still out there and breathing.....fuck you.  I hope you rot in fucking hell.

Oh, and as a FN, I hunt and fish all over Texas, and always have.  And I know those cops are out there.  When we were young married, I told my wife that if she ever gets a call from me where I said "call Tigar," I meant to call my old law prof Michael Tigar, and bring a camera crew because some bad shit went down.  That was 25 years ago.  I'd have her call someone else now, but the message remains the same.  That's just something you have to keep in mind when you have my last name and travel in Texas/America.

I might have told this story on this site or the old one...

Summer after HS I had to deliver my dad's late brother's car from Houston up to my dad in Nashville...I took our HS class mate "Bob Avila" with me. You remember "Bob," don't you? Medium-dark skinned Mexican brotha with a bushy Mexi-mullet at the time?

Anyway, we got through a night out in New Orleans without incident and then drove to Nashville, where I, despite having loved there for ten years as a kid, got lost as fuck. It was around midnight, and I was on the wrong Old Hickory Blvd, about ten miles from my dad's house. (There are four Old Hickorys in Nashville, not connected, all major thoroughfares.)

So anyway we are driving around lost on the Old Hickory in this convertible POS car my dad should have just sold in Houston. I'm blanking on the make / model -- it was a domestic two-door with a shitty engine and ugly as homemade sin...

And the Metro Nashville PD lit me up. I pulled over and all hell broke loose. Two, three, four, five cop cars..."Bob" and I in the back seat of one of them while the ransacked my car. 

We hadn't been drinking or anything like that...I was just lost on Old Hickory Blvd.

Anyway, after what seemed like an hour in the back seat of that cruiser one of the cops gave us the deal. There had been a robbery in the area and the suspects matched our description.

"We thought you were a nigger," the cop said to Bob. 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by MaybeACoordinator

[Brisketexan 105,142]

I remember “Bob.” And yeah, in sophisticated Nashville...I can see them thinking that, because you know....non white dude.

[markstanco 12,577]

My story is extremely petty compared to some of yours, but it was the 1st time I saw a cop can do whatever TF they want.

Driving home one day back around 2002ish doing just under the speed limit of 70. I see a dps whip through the median, there was really nobody in front or behind me. Yep he pulls me over. Asks for dl and insurance. He runs it then comes back with a ticket of me driving 85 mph. I tell him that is impossible, but he keeps writing.

Next day I call his boss. I tell him I know that it is out of his hands now but that is simply wrong. I explained that I had a Ranch Hand bumper with a big flat surface to bounce radar back and get a good reading. A few days later the court called and said the ticket had been dismissed. I found out the officer got transferred out a few months later.

[markstanco 12,577]

I'm not saying it's 100 percent.  But it does help with their attitudes.  Some cops act like shit because they're afraid.  There are things you can do, and no one says you should have to, that can lessen your risk of being killed or injured by a cop.
Having a CHL is one of those things.  So is doing certain things when pulled over, especially at night.  Roll down your windows.  Turn on your dome light. Turn off the engine.  Keep your hands on the steering wheel and stay in your car.
This wouldn't help Floyd.  It does help with jumpy cops, regardless of race.

Agreed on the CHL. I have been let go 3 of 3 times I have been pulled over since I got mine in 08 in texas. Except I roll my window down and place both hands on the door.

The one ticket I got was in southern WA from state troopers on 5. I gave them my DL and CHL and they said in a loud tone "you have a gun on you?!" I said no, but it is courteous (maybe law? Can't remwmber) to give both. He rolled his eyes and gave it back.

[Armybrat 40,846]

When I was stopped for speeding and showed both licenses, the cop (a black guy) asked if I had a weapon and where was it. When I told him is was a KelTec .32 in the console, he could barely keep from laughing.... then let me go with a warning.

I bought a 9mm the next week.

[Brian Fantana 6,689]

This doesn't exactly qualify for this thread but I'll post it again because it does involve police douchebaggery that could possibly one day result in police violence against me (repost from the Minneapolis thread):

Quote

This doesn't go as far as murder, but in this town the guy that's been constable since 2008 was recorded on video sexually assaulting a convenience store clerk who filed charges but mysteriously dropped them after Mommy Mayor got involved. I also know for a fact that he solicited nudes from my best friend's bipolar little sister (who was 14 at the time. while he was working as a local cop), among various other things you hear out and about.

I called him out publicly on Facebook for all this after he got elected constable and I got threatened in Facebook PMs (several different people) and in person at a local bar (twice). In person it was the guy's father once and the second time it was his father along with another local cop and a sheriff's deputy. They were smart enough not to directly threaten violence but the implied threat was clear enough. I ignored all the facebook PMs and told his father (both times), in no uncertain terms, what he could go do to himself and his shitbag son.

When none of that worked, they switched to whispering in the ear of various school board members to try and get my 65-year old cancer patient father fired from his job as a high school teacher in retaliation. When that didn't work, they actually had a local lawyer call me and threaten me with legal action (not in writing because they're fucking cowards). I laughed at him and told him that I would LOVE for a case like that to move to discovery and to go ahead and send me a fucking letter. Never heard from him again. Long story short, I never relented and the posts are still there on my Facebook page.

I'm shocked I haven't had a late night visitor looking to snuff me out, knowing the guy and his family.

I know every single local cop/sheriff's deputy here and the only one that isn't an idiot meathead redneck with one substance and/or spousal abuse issue or another that you wouldn't trust to run mall security in a ghost town is the local sheriff, and that's only because he's been a family friend since I was a baby. Even then, I've heard rumors and stories that make me bristle and I don't talk to him much as a result.

This town is also barely 50% white but every single local law enforcement officer and officers of the court are white bread as they come.

Also he WAS involved in a brutality case against a black kid a few years ago but I'm not sure off the top of my head if he was the one that was doing the beating or not.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Brian Fantana

[SimonBolivar 10,958]

Had the opposite happen with some nice white privilege. We (5 or 6 college aged white guys) used to go urban exploring in the wrong side of town. One night around 2AM we are breaking into an abandoned HBCU just to have a look around and scare each other when a cop comes driving up. He asks us what we're doing and I reply "ghost hunting". He laughed and says "Well you guys better get out of here as they'll kill you in this neighborhood for being white" and then drove away. I wasnt worried for 1 second for whatever reason, probably because one guy's dad was a judge and another guy's dad is the top bail lawyer in Arkansas. I'd image things would've gone differently if we'd been a group of 6 or 7 black 20 year olds breaking into an abandoned building.

Edited May 31, 2020 by SimonBolivar

[Newdoc 3,440]

Roughed up a few times for being in the wrong place at the wrong time but never cuffed or taken in. I would just stay cool and respectful. And white.

This stories goes to show how much one bad cop (and there are likely many) with a bunch of compliant buddy cops can wreck society.  And they get to do it full time.

[texaslong 678]

Had a co-worker's son who sat in jail for over a year waiting on a trail. His son was a bail bondsman who had a beef with an ATF agent. They apparently were friends at one point, but something happened in which my co-workers son sent the guy's wife an email informing her that her husband was doing some shady stuff and he needed to stop. FBI and ATF show up at co-worker's house one day and tore the house apart and took his son in charging him with a terror threat. Took about a year, but they dropped all charges and released him. Turns out the ATF agent had been taking evidence and selling it to a local pond shop. The pond shop owner knew he was buying illegal stuff and decided to turn on the agent when he found out that the agent had been sleeping with his wife. Just remember my co-worker spending a fortune on lawyers and an investigator while absolutely knowing his son was innocent. 

[BrickHorn 18,235]

25 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

This stories goes to show how much one bad cop (and there are likely many) with a bunch of compliant buddy cops can wreck society.  And they get to do it full time.

Hell, we pay them to do it. What a fucked up system.

[T-shirt Sip 2,104]

19 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

Get a CHL.  Seriously, you show a cop that and they instantly know you're not going to harm them (you cannot have much of anything on your record to qualify).  One of my good friends is black and has a CHL.  He told me the difference pre and post CHL with his treatment from cops is night and day.  It doesn't stop him from getting pulled over for driving while black.  But the cops treat him much better.

This shouldn't be necessary.  But I would recommend everyone get a CHL.  You don't have to even own a gun.  But it's amazing how cops let you off on speeding tickets and treat you better with a CHL.  I can tell a huge difference.

I have to agree with this. I’ve been pulled over 4 times since I got mine and 0 tickets. The most recent time, the officer thanked me 3 times for being an “armed citizen”.

[Pato del Muerto 52,498]

I thought maybe brisket was trying out some copy for an upcoming cheesy lawyer commercial where he’s in a suit but casually sitting on the edge of his desk. 

[Wanker Bob 379]

Yes, but it wasn't American police and I'm not black or hispanic so I'm still alive. 

[Armybrat 40,846]

44 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

Roughed up a few times for being in the wrong place at the wrong time but never cuffed or taken in. I would just stay cool and respectful. And white.

This stories goes to show how much one bad cop (and there are likely many) with a bunch of compliant buddy cops can wreck society.  And they get to do it full time.

My nephew retired (well ahead of his intentions) last year from the Kerrville PD along with a couple of other officers who quit in protest of the way the chief mishandled the case of another officer lying to obtain a search warrant. Too bad, three good officers leave and the “alleged” bad apple gets to stay. Lots of tension in that department.

KENS-5 had the story on January 22 this year. My nephew was not mentioned by name, but the other officers involved were.

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

12 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I remember “Bob.” And yeah, in sophisticated Nashville...I can see them thinking that, because you know....non white dude.

But once he was "placed," he was white enough for a cop to casually drop an N-bomb in front of him....I forgot, while we were sitting back there, another cop came up to our cop and was talking about another innocent suspect, this one happening to be black..."Fucking nigger got lippy with me," Cop 2 said. "Shoulda shot him," said Cop 1. Laughter all around. (Except for Bob and me, nervous in the backseat)

[TwiceHorn 31,472]

12 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

Mine too.  I've gotten pulled over three times by DPS, zero tickets.  Once I didn't even have my license.  

Not a police violence story, but kinda funny.

I have a client in Mansfield, TX, which is off SH 67.  You generally get to SH67 by a two-lane exit/merge from 35.  So 35 is 70 or 75 mph speed limit and 67 is 60 or 65.  I also have other occasions to get on 67 the same way (mountain biking, field target shooting in S. Arlington/Mansfield).

Anyway, one day I was booking along on 35, doing probably 80ish and exit onto 67, maintaining speed.  So, safe on 35, 10+ mph over on 67.

I get pulled over by a butch-y female DPS officer.  I guess going back to my drinking days, I get nervous when pulled over.  So I am fumbling around for my DL and Insurance and I keep saying "Yes, sir" to the officer.  And correcting myself, and then saying it again.  Like five times.  I think this was also the first (and only) time I have been pulled over since keeping my insurance on my phone rather than in the glove compartment.  She remained courteous and nice.

Anyway, she let me know that the speed limit dropped when you got on 67, that I didn't honestly realize and let me off with a warning.

While DPS officers do tend to be more professional, they're still LEO and do about as much corrupt and stupid shit as any other LEO, to include the Rangers.

It seems that even if you draw applicants from a better pool, e.g. FBI>DPS>DPD, the institution(s) still manages to corrupt the officers.

[Bevo 13,577]

I had a policeman pull a gun on me and then frisk me and search my car for a routine speeding ticket on I10 in Louisiana. Had something similar happen to me in Mississippi. Had a policeman come to my backdoor and write me a ticket for speeding and I declined to get out of the house and accept a sobriety test even though I was sober. I have a handful of in-laws who are policemen and our reunions seem to go fine.

[DoobieWah 1,437]

3 hours ago, texaslong said:

taking evidence and selling it to a local pond shop. The pond shop owner knew

pond shop?

 

is that a Shaggyism I hadn't heard yet?

[shakahorn 1,645]

pond shop?
 
is that a Shaggyism I hadn't heard yet?

There are pool shops and pond shops. Pond shops are better for surlies.

[Brisketexan 105,142]

6 minutes ago, shakahorn said:

There are pool shops and pond shops. Pond shops are better for surlies.

[Paco 1,934]

One night around 2AM we are breaking into an abandoned HBCU just to have a look around

Historically Black Credit Union?

[texaslong 678]

2 hours ago, DoobieWah said:

pond shop?

 

is that a Shaggyism I hadn't heard yet?

It’s a Louisiana education thing I guess. I misspelled pawn shop and then didn’t pay attention to the autocorrect either.

[Tex Long 4,399]

1 hour ago, texaslong said:

... didn’t pay attention to the autocorrect ...

At least you did one thing write.

[ulukinatme 1,763]

I've had a number of run ins with the law in my younger years.  Most of them were for speeding and fender benders, got to the point I nearly lost my license (And probably should have).  All the officers I've ever dealt with have been super cool and understanding, save for one.  I've lived my whole life in suburbia though, and I'm white, so I've been fortunate to get the nice treatment.

That one guy that was a prick was a well known prick in my old hometown.  Pulled me over when I was 16, I was neckin' with a girl in my car in the back of her subdivision.  He could tell I was scared shitless, he started making a lot of threats.  He kept making accusations that we were trying to steal construction equipment and other goods from the nearby lots being built.  What the fuck is a 16 year old going to do with construction equipment?  Do I have a backhoe in my trunk?  He wanted to search the vehicle, wanted to administer a breathalyzer, pulled my gf aside to confirm she was there of her own free will, then planned on calling her father until she pleaded with him to let us off with a warning and we wouldn't be back.  We weren't even fuckin', we were just makin' out.  This guy had nothing.  Things didn't get physical or anything, but the guy was well known for his abuse, he enjoyed the power trip.

I can think of at least 10 run ins I had on the road where I did get a ticket though, and several more where the officer let me go.  All those guys were cool.  There was even an incident recently where my red headed son decided to swipe a $1 toy from the store.  I thought I'd stage a mini-intervention to curb future sticky hands in the future, so I took him down to the station to have a talk with with the police.  The officer that talked to him was awesome, very kind and really got through to my little shit head.  We then submitted the toy as "evidence," but not before we went to the store and I made him pay the cashier for it.  

Edited June 1, 2020 by ulukinatme

[Pato del Muerto 52,498]

Not violence but...

got “pulled over” in a target parking lot going 5 mph one night teaching my younger stepbrother to drive a manual transmission.  Apparently there was a manager still in the store running receipts and she was scared that we were waiting for her to exit. 
3 cruisers. cops separated us to ask stories, asked to search my car. I figured the night shift was bored because whatever happens in grapevine?

but what would have gone down had I been defiant about the car search?  They looked thoroughly too, wasn’t just a quick check for weapons. 

[Fat Bastard 600]

It was my 5th birthday. Showbiz Pizza. Was playing skee-ball. They forgot to properly lock the box that had the reel of tickets in there. I took the whole reel out and went to the prize area asking for them to count my tickets and let me choose the best prize I could get. Cops were called. I pleaded to the cop not to take me to jail. I wasn’t. I don’t think I got to have cake that day. Memory is a little fuzzy tho. It was 35+ years ago