Minneapolis is Burning

[GRHorn 105]

13 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

Scott’s bill didn’t ban chokeholds, didn’t ban no knock warrants, and didn’t touch qualified immunity.

Again, so if you want those things let everyone vote on amendments. Have them vote down qualified immunity and everything else. You still get some reform. Instead you get nada. How does that help anyone? 

[Brisketexan 106610]

Scott’s bill didn’t ban chokeholds, didn’t ban no knock warrants, and didn’t touch qualified immunity.

It is a typical GOP ploy: do hardly anything to meaningfully address the issue. Argue that the Dems should vote for it because “something is better than nothing.” Then resist all future attempts to address the problem because “we already did something; you people will never be satisfied!”

When that is the known ploy, the only winning move is to refuse to play. Fuck em. Win the house and senate, then pass a good bill.

[bad_teammate 13479]

13 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Again, so if you want those things let everyone vote on amendments. Have them vote down qualified immunity and everything else. You still get some reform. Instead you get nada. How does that help anyone? 

Hey centrists who spent an entire fucking year being assholes to progressives, this is literally fucking you you worthless pieces of shit.

[HenryJames 67113]

You’re like crazier Shaun King.

[Dropout 355]

16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

When that is the known ploy, the only winning move is to refuse to play. Fuck em. Win the house and senate, then pass a good bill.

Pretty much.

[staboner 5066]

how on god's green earth can the US not figure out how to ban no knock warrants. it must be the goddamn easiest thing to rally some lizard brains behind and low and chokehold here we still are

 

[totallynotabuttpirate 5477]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

Siap on the defund the police thread, but give me the fucking argument against this. Explain to me how Democratic leaders actually care about the issue tearing our country apart, but are unwilling to work on a solution. The vast majority of people understand that being a black American means poor treatment by the police. 
 

So why not take 70-80% of what you want now to help people? Instead of waiting until 2021 to help people?

How have things been over on r/thedonald?

[HenryJames 67113]

 

[TXSG8R 3362]

SIAP

https://portcitydaily.com/local-news/2020/06/24/fired-wilmington-cop-we-are-just-going-to-go-out-and-start-slaughtering-them-f-ni-i-cant-wait-god-i-cant-wait-free-read/

Quote

After skipping through the video, which was largely video of his backseat, she found a conversation between Piner and Corporal Jessie Moore — a police officer with the department since 1997.

She reviewed the conversation she ‘heard comments, extremely racist comments made by both Piner and Moore,” according to a summary provided by police.

The video also recorded a conversation with Officer Gilmore who apparently had pulled up next to Piner’s car.

Both conversations were explicit and racist in content.

According to the investigation summary, at 6:51 a.m., on a date not listed, Piner and Gilmore are recorded having a conversation.

“Their conversation eventually turned to the topic of the protests against racism occurring across the nation. Piner tells Gilmore that the only thing this agency is concerned with ‘kneeling down with the black folks.’ Gilmore then said that he watched a video on social media about white people bowing down on their knees and ‘worshipping blacks,'” according to the summary.

The conversation then turned to other police officers in the Wilmington Police Department — black officers.

The audio has Piner calling one of the officers ‘bad news’ and a ‘piece of shit.’

“Let’s see how his boys take care of him when shit gets rough, see if they don’t put a bullet in his head,” Piner said about a fellow officer.

That conversation ends as Piner goes to respond to an alarm call.

‘A civil war is coming’
The second of the two conversations that day happened after Piner received a phone call from Moore.

According to the summary, “Moore began telling Piner about an arrest he had made at work the day before. During that conversation, Moore refers to the female as a ‘negro’ and a ‘ni—-‘ on multiple occasions.”

He also referred to a magistrate judge, who is also black, as a ‘fucking negro magistrate.’

“At one point, Moore states, ‘she needed a bullet in her head right then and move on. Let’s move the body out of the way and keep going.’ Piner responds, ‘That’s what I have been trying to tell you,'” according to the documents.

After more derogatory comments about the arrestee and the magistrate, the conversation takes an even bleaker turn, as the two officers discuss an upcoming ‘civil war.’

“Piner tells Moore later in the conversation that he feels a civil war is coming and he is ‘ready.’ Piner advised he is going to buy a new assault rifle in the next couple of weeks. A short time later Officer Piner began to discuss society being close to ‘martial law’ and soon ‘we are just gonna go out and start slaughtering them fucking ni—–. I can’t wait. God, I can’t wait.’ Moore responded that he would not do that. Piner stated, ‘I am ready.'” according to the summary.

“Officer Piner then explained to Cpl. Moore that he felt society needed a civil war to ‘wipe ’em off the fucking map. That’ll put ’em back about four or five generations.'”

After the conversations were discovered police launched their own investigations into the incidents. None of the officers involved denied saying the things they said, according to WPD>

“Each officer admitted it was their voice on the video. They did not deny saying any of the things heard on the video. Each officer pointed to the stress of today’s climate in law enforcement as a reason for their ‘venting,'” according to the investigation.

 

[GRHorn 105]

8 hours ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

How have things been over on r/thedonald?

I’m too old for Reddit. 
 

8 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

It is a typical GOP ploy: do hardly anything to meaningfully address the issue. Argue that the Dems should vote for it because “something is better than nothing.” Then resist all future attempts to address the problem because “we already did something; you people will never be satisfied!”

If Rs say, “We already did something; you people will never be satisfied!”, in January it won’t matter when you control WH and house and Senate. You can then pass anything extra you wanted in the first place, assuming it was voted down as an amendment now. 
 

 

8 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

When that is the known ploy, the only winning move is to refuse to play. Fuck em. Win the house and senate, then pass a good bill.

Your privilege is showing, Brisket. 

Sounds like what someone would say that doesn’t live with the consequences.  
 

I thought you went to the protests because we must work to end systemic racism now? Wait, I mean next year. 
 

What is in the Justice Act that is so objectionable? If there’s nothing specific, then you’re literally playing politics with Black Lives. I thought they mattered?
 

Guess that was a lot of hot air you and the other protestors were blowing all over each other. 

[TXSG8R 3362]

9 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Ok so again.  Don’t let the vote go forward because you’ll only 70% of what you want? Let Black Americans suffer until January for political purposes? 
 

Also might as well put them on record for voting against amendments that you consider common sense slam dunks. 

Yea, because forcing red state senators on the record will make them do the right thing, or maybe you mean it will cause voters to hold them accountable?  The same people that are yelling Kung Flu at faux KKK rallies?  Those voters?

 

[Chad Fuck 18087]

Your privilege is showing, Brisket. 
Sounds like what someone would say that doesn’t live with the consequences.  
 
I thought you went to the protests because we must work to end systemic racism now? Wait, I mean next year. 
 
What is in the Justice Act that is so objectionable? If there’s nothing specific, then you’re literally playing politics with Black Lives. I thought they mattered?
 
Guess that was a lot of hot air you and the other protestors were blowing all over each other. 

“You’ll take what we give you and you’ll like it, boy!” - GOP 2020

[Post Oak 20550]

10 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Siap on the defund the police thread, but give me the fucking argument against this. Explain to me how Democratic leaders actually care about the issue tearing our country apart, but are unwilling to work on a solution. The vast majority of people understand that being a black American means poor treatment by the police. 
 

So why not take 70-80% of what you want now to help people? Instead of waiting until 2021 to help people?

Cause that's bait.    

Republicans are throwing that out there for 2 reasons.

1. The longer this goes on the worst it is for the GOP and their thin blue line lunatic base.  Plus they'll have to run on this in November.

2.  It's not actual reform.  We have a real moment right now to get this right.  Don't get bullied by Tim fucking Scott to vote

The GOP is trying to change the narrative.  Don't let them 

[TXSG8R 3362]

9 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Ok so again.  Don’t let the vote go forward because you’ll only 70% of what you want? Let Black Americans suffer until January for political purposes? 
 

Also might as well put them on record for voting against amendments that you consider common sense slam dunks. 

This post is still bugging me.  Do you have a source for this 70% number?  I'm guessing that is something Republicans have said they have in common, but what does that really entail?  The key subjects within the bill, or the actual approaches to those subjects?  I'm guessing the former, and that's why its disingenuous to try to preach that they are trying to seek common ground when what they are really trying to do is get something weak on paper first that they can point to later saying "we already legislated that, you guys all agreed to it, lets move on." 

Justice Act would incentivize not using chokeholds through reducing funding.  The democrats want it banned nationwide.  

Justice Act wants to collect data on no knock warrants, democrats want most of them banned.  

Justice Act doesnt cover qualified immunity, democrats want it eliminated.  Their bill would hold officers accountable for their actions.

In fact, the Justice Act is mostly incentives to do or not do things through funding.  None of that actually holds officers that kill people accountable.  Why?  Its easy to hide or bog down in paperwork and and auditing so cops can keep choking people to death and not feel repercussions for as long as they can keep playing the paper drill.  Its a way to throw paper at a problem, get in front of a camera saying they fixed it, and slowly allow things to regress back to "normal" in the background and let cops keep doing what they have been doing.  

 

The only real common ground between the two bills is the officer misconduct database, making lynching a federal hate crime (in 20 fucking 20, but I digress), and a social status study of black men and boys.  

[DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt 12301]

11 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Siap on the defund the police thread, but give me the fucking argument against this. Explain to me how Democratic leaders actually care about the issue tearing our country apart, but are unwilling to work on a solution. The vast majority of people understand that being a black American means poor treatment by the police. 
 

So why not take 70-80% of what you want now to help people? Instead of waiting until 2021 to help people?

I sense you understand that your party is breathing its last breaths.

how does that feel?

[BigHorn'13 3480]

10 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Let Black Americans suffer until January for political purposes? 

 

9 hours ago, GRHorn said:

How does that help anyone? 

I can't tell... Are you acknowledging there is a problem with policing? More specifically, policing and PoC?

Also, this argument rings hollow for people in my generation who witnessed GOP obstruction at every Obama move. I wonder if you were this critical of your own party during all those "shutdowns."

[jimmyjazz 46964]

1 minute ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Also, this argument rings hollow for people in my generation who witnessed GOP obstruction at every Obama move. I wonder if you were this critical of your own party during all those "shutdowns."

What do you think?

[BigHorn'13 3480]

Playing rhetorical with the doc, here... Best way to change minds is to point out hypocrisies. 

[softlynow 1893]

7 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Playing rhetorical with the doc, here... Best way to change minds is to point out hypocrisies. 

No, the best way to change minds is have the issues affect them personally. The other way polling usually moves on issues is the older folks set in their ways die off, and are replaced with people still working out their worldview. One other key way minds "change" is the culture demands that it does, at least publicly. Polling suggested racism was "solved" long ago. Uh huh. Pointing out hypocrisy usually leads to embracing that hypocrisy and turning to whataboutism as a reflex response, in my experience.

People like GR are lost causes. They will ride the nuke to its detonation. Correct the record if you like, but don't delude yourself into thinking you're in a real conversation.

[Brisketexan 106610]

1 hour ago, GRHorn said:

I’m too old for Reddit. 
 

If Rs say, “We already did something; you people will never be satisfied!”, in January it won’t matter when you control WH and house and Senate. You can then pass anything extra you wanted in the first place, assuming it was voted down as an amendment now. 
 

 

Your privilege is showing, Brisket. 

Sounds like what someone would say that doesn’t live with the consequences.  
 

I thought you went to the protests because we must work to end systemic racism now? Wait, I mean next year. 
 

What is in the Justice Act that is so objectionable? If there’s nothing specific, then you’re literally playing politics with Black Lives. I thought they mattered?
 

Guess that was a lot of hot air you and the other protestors were blowing all over each other. 

 

1 hour ago, Chad Fuck said:

“You’ll take what we give you and you’ll like it, boy!” - GOP 2020

Yep.  The alternative to GR's take -- no, I'm just not stupid.  We're going to have to suffer a little while longer to get an actual long-term fix.  There are no great options, but if we want real solutions, we're going to have to wait out the GOP's stupidity.

Black lives matter.  Police reform matters.  So it's worth waiting to do it right.  We've spent centuries not solving the problem.  Another few months is nothing.  And yes, it sucks, but that's America under a GOP-controlled government.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Brisketexan

[BigHorn'13 3480]

4 minutes ago, softlynow said:

No, the best way to change minds is have the issues affect them personally. The other way polling usually moves on issues is the older folks set in their ways die off, and are replaced with people still working out their worldview. One other key way minds "change" is the culture demands that it does, at least publicly. Polling suggested racism was "solved" long ago. Uh huh. Pointing out hypocrisy usually leads to embracing that hypocrisy and turning to whataboutism as a reflex response, in my experience.

People like GR are lost causes. They will ride the nuke to its detonation. Correct the record if you like, but don't delude yourself into thinking you're in a real conversation.

Forgive me, undoubtedly true. It's never "real" until it happens to someone. And I could see how the rest would play out with "well, IF he/ they didn't..." I would just hope that someone else who claims to have had access to the same education (and beyond) as me wouldn't choose to be so narrow minded. 

Really starting to see who would've been better off attending aggy during these times. They've got more in common than they think. 

[Goredho 17627]

1 hour ago, HenryJames said:

 

I remember when radical Islam was all the rage and we talked about the fanatical clerics and mosques that served as recruiting centers for the vulnerable and how they would be systemically converted to being terrorists capable of murder.

Who are the clerics leading white nationalist radicalism in the US?  Where are the mosques from which they preach?

These fucks are the ones that need to lose their jobs.

[bad_teammate 13479]

11 hours ago, HenryJames said:

You’re like crazier Shaun King.

I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

[Hiphopopotamos 21158]

1 hour ago, TXSG8R said:

This post is still bugging me.  Do you have a source for this 70% number?  I'm guessing that is something Republicans have said they have in common, but what does that really entail?  The key subjects within the bill, or the actual approaches to those subjects?  I'm guessing the former, and that's why its disingenuous to try to preach that they are trying to seek common ground when what they are really trying to do is get something weak on paper first that they can point to later saying "we already legislated that, you guys all agreed to it, lets move on." 

Justice Act would incentivize not using chokeholds through reducing funding.  The democrats want it banned nationwide.  

Justice Act wants to collect data on no knock warrants, democrats want most of them banned.  

Justice Act doesnt cover qualified immunity, democrats want it eliminated.  Their bill would hold officers accountable for their actions.

In fact, the Justice Act is mostly incentives to do or not do things through funding.  None of that actually holds officers that kill people accountable.  Why?  Its easy to hide or bog down in paperwork and and auditing so cops can keep choking people to death and not feel repercussions for as long as they can keep playing the paper drill.  Its a way to throw paper at a problem, get in front of a camera saying they fixed it, and slowly allow things to regress back to "normal" in the background and let cops keep doing what they have been doing.  

 

The only real common ground between the two bills is the officer misconduct database, making lynching a federal hate crime (in 20 fucking 20, but I digress), and a social status study of black men and boys.  

Their Bill doesn't include any of the items people are protesting for - but the Dems are supposed to vote on amendments to add to the bill?  Why the fuck would they do that?  Write a bill that will solve some problems and the Dems will vote.

[Brisketexan 106610]

3 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Their Bill doesn't include any of the items people are protesting for - but the Dems are supposed to vote on amendments to add to the bill?  Why the fuck would they do that?  Write a bill that will solve some problems and the Dems will vote.

"Here's a steaming pile of shit.  You keep saying you're hungry, so maybe try adding a squeeze of mustard and a slice of cheese.  I mean, if you're hungry, you'll eat anything, right, and at least you get SOME nutrition with the mustard and cheese, right?"

No.  No we won't.  Take your pile of shit and shove it.

[ImissWallyPryor 9046]

I rarely visit this forum, so I’m not sure if this is the best place to post this.  South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem has stronger convictions than just about anyone in DC. I’d be happy to have her as the first female president. 

She’s “easy on the eyes” as they say. Hopefully, we can unify over that. Probably not. 

Edited June 25, 2020 by ImissWallyPryor

[workswithseed 2201]

12 hours ago, HenryJames said:

Scott’s bill didn’t ban chokeholds, didn’t ban no knock warrants, and didn’t touch qualified immunity.

I don't think choke holds are a problem. All the other shit should go.

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by workswithseed

[HornOnTheBayou 9056]

51 minutes ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

She’s “easy on the eyes” as they say. Hopefully, we can unify over that. Probably not. 

I'd like to see her bad lands.

[StassneyHorn 6755]

25 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I don't think choke holds are a problem. All the other shit should go.

 

FYI, nobody clicks play on your videos. Put your thoughts to words.

[StassneyHorn 6755]

12 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Ok so again.  Don’t let the vote go forward because you’ll only 70% of what you want? Let Black Americans suffer until January for political purposes? 
 

Also might as well put them on record for voting against amendments that you consider common sense slam dunks. 

You are the one saying it’s 70% the same without showing any work or overlay. Brisket and others have addressed the huge differences already. 

[Brisketexan 106610]

3 minutes ago, StassneyHorn said:

FYI, nobody clicks play on your videos. Put your thoughts to words.

Seriously....nobody around here is going to give up 1-2 hours to try to figure out what your point is.  You have to give a TLDR summary.

[NWBuck 8619]

17 minutes ago, HornOnTheBayou said:

I'd like to see her bad lands.

I also would like the opportunity to noem, noem, noem... kinda' a brunette Kim Wexler vibe.

[workswithseed 2201]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Seriously....nobody around here is going to give up 1-2 hours to try to figure out what your point is.  You have to give a TLDR summary.

 To be fair, it's not even 6 minutes long, with a demonstration of what happens during a chokehold. I can't put that on paper.

[Chad Fuck 18087]

1 hour ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

I rarely visit this forum, so I’m not sure if this is the best place to post this.  South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem has stronger convictions than just about anyone in DC. I’d be happy to have her as the first female president. 

She’s “easy on the eyes” as they say. Hopefully, we can unify over that. Probably not. 

It's weird that no other part of her face moves, except the mouth part of her face. 

Awesome that she's standing up against a problem that doesn't exist though.  Real standout trooper there.

[bad_teammate 13479]

Hey watch this video of two dumbshit grifters! lol eat shit

[workswithseed 2201]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Hey watch this video of two dumbshit grifters! lol eat shit

I'd rather eat the bullet, comrade.

[Brisketexan 106610]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Hey watch this video of two dumbshit grifters! lol eat shit

Truly, I loathe the "hey, watch this video" school of posting.  No.  Post a transcript or something, so we can read the highlights.  Or summarize it yourself.  I'm reading while I am on calls etc. -- I can't watch videos, nor do I want to waste that much time.

[TXSG8R 3362]

29 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I don't think choke holds are a problem. All the other shit should go.

 

So to summarize:  
Guest admits cops don't get enough training.  

Guest suggests cops should continue to use choke holds that they don't get enough training on because its better than having to beat someone into submission, completely ignoring the use of a taser as an alternative.

Host demonstrates how safe a choke hold is (4:40ish), and has to ask when the guy is out because he doesn't know, and says "THANK GOD FOR THE AUDIENCE THERE" (5:25ish) demonstrating that its really easy to not be aware when someone is unconscious when doing this maneuver.  

There are no fucking referees or instructor there to call off a choke when a cop is wrestling with a perp.  FFS, even when people are yelling at cops that they are choking people or that the perp is obviously out they. don't. stop.  This maneuver, when misapplied, leads to death.  What leads to misapplication?  Lack of training.  Lack of awareness that the guy in your choke is actually out.  Lack of empathy / racial bias / insert other shitty cop reasons here.  Choke holds kill people.  Stop doing them.  

[Captainant 28380]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

 To be fair, it's not even 6 minutes long, with a demonstration of what happens during a chokehold. I can't put that on paper.

Also probably aren't gonna get many people to click on a crowder vid. Dude is a meme and a bad-faith actor in discussions. Chokeholds are a problem. Cops kill people regularly with them. 

If you think differently, stop supporting cops murdering people willy fucking nilly

[bad_teammate 13479]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

 To be fair, it's not even 6 minutes long, with a demonstration of what happens during a chokehold. I can't put that on paper.

Hey there's an 8 minute, 46 second video out you should fucking watch.

[RomaVicta 30497]

1 hour ago, ImissWallyPryor said:

I rarely visit this forum, so I’m not sure if this is the best place to post this.  South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem has stronger convictions than just about anyone in DC. I’d be happy to have her as the first female president. 

She’s “easy on the eyes” as they say. Hopefully, we can unify over that. Probably not. 

I tuned in KLBJ within the last few days, the afternoon show. Confederacy of dunces. They were riding the hysteria wave and Ed Clemens brought up, in his weariest voice, "now I'm hearing they may want to go after Mt. Rushmore." 

Clemons, a formidable idiot in his own right, is the genius on the show. The shrill woman and condescending man with him took turns hyperventilating in outrage and then laughing about how stupid the libs are. 

I could tell that this was the opening infection of a pandemic of pearl clutching over our precious memorials. Sure enough, Wally posts the FOX News show where the State of North Dakota and the Federal Government will partner to protect the petrified presidential probosci.

I'm guessing they imagine a caravan of low riders rumbling across the badlands from the evil cities filled with your coloreds wielding Glocks and pickaxes. Roark's Drift all over again. Brave souls, these GOPs!

[bad_teammate 13479]

2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I'd rather eat the bullet, comrade.

In-fucking-shallah

[JimmyJames 12271]

12 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

It is a typical GOP ploy: do hardly anything to meaningfully address the issue. Argue that the Dems should vote for it because “something is better than nothing.” Then resist all future attempts to address the problem because “we already did something; you people will never be satisfied!”

When that is the known ploy, the only winning move is to refuse to play. Fuck em. Win the house and senate, then pass a good bill.

This. And Thank you for saving me from having to type all these words just to address that troll’s nonsense. 

[workswithseed 2201]

1 minute ago, bad_teammate said:

Hey there's an 8 minute, 46 second video out you should fucking watch.

That's not a choke hold.

[workswithseed 2201]

3 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

So to summarize:  
Guest admits cops don't get enough training.  

Guest suggests cops should continue to use choke holds that they don't get enough training on because its better than having to beat someone into submission, completely ignoring the use of a taser as an alternative.

Host demonstrates how safe a choke hold is (4:40ish), and has to ask when the guy is out because he doesn't know, and says "THANK GOD FOR THE AUDIENCE THERE" (5:25ish) demonstrating that its really easy to not be aware when someone is unconscious when doing this maneuver.  

There are no fucking referees or instructor there to call off a choke when a cop is wrestling with a perp.  FFS, even when people are yelling at cops that they are choking people or that the perp is obviously out they. don't. stop.  This maneuver, when misapplied, leads to death.  What leads to misapplication?  Lack of training.  Lack of awareness that the guy in your choke is actually out.  Lack of empathy / racial bias / insert other shitty cop reasons here.  Choke holds kill people.  Stop doing them.  

That's why he asked if he could breath, and he said he could breath the whole time.

[Captainant 28380]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

That's why he asked if he could breath, and he said he could breath the whole time.

We get it. You prefer cops to kill people with chokeholds instead of kneeling on their neck. Just keep thinking whatever your right wing shock jock YouTubers tell you to

[workswithseed 2201]

1 minute ago, Captainant said:

We get it. You prefer cops to kill people with chokeholds instead of kneeling on their neck. Just keep thinking whatever your right wing shock jock YouTubers tell you to

I get that you want cops to kill people by shooting them. 

[Bozo_Casanova 26773]

14 minutes ago, TXSG8R said:

So to summarize:  
Guest admits cops don't get enough training.  

Guest suggests cops should continue to use choke holds that they don't get enough training on because its better than having to beat someone into submission, completely ignoring the use of a taser as an alternative.

I'm not in any way an expert on this, but I'm not sure taser is a good alternative to a choke hold. Back when I worked at the boxing gym the owner was a retired SWAT leader who would get sad to the point of tears every time a cop would shoot someone.  He blamed tasers, because they discouraged the use of hands-on physical force and control, which in turn made police more fearful and less confident in his view, and thus more likely to escalate. His view was that in his career they had gone from

verbal command ->physical intimidation -> restraint ->night stick/tonfa -> gun

to

verbal -> taser-> gun

and he saw that as a recipe for escalation and disaster.  As close as I can remember he said some thing to the effect that when cops used their hands they felt sure of them selves and the vast majority of regular patrol guys felt confident about their own safety even though they never unholstered or even touched their pistol over the course of a career, and that the worst thing that happened was that they flew off the handle and beat somebody up, but everybody lived. 
Obviously that doesn't cover choke holds, but I've been hit in the ribs and thigh with a night stick before, and as much as that sucked I would rather have that incapacitate me than be choked out. 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Bozo_Casanova

[TXSG8R 3362]

4 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

That's why he asked if he could breath, and he said he could breath the whole time.

First, I can’t believe you think the guy that passed out is able to answer one way or another if he was able to breathe while unconscious. When asked if he passed out, he had to answer “makes sense” because he, you know, didn’t know wtf just happened because his brain was turned off. 

Second, this was a controlled environment, where the trained jiu jitsu guy was able to lay in a perfect choke without the guy in the choke struggling or moving.

Third, I guess you’re suggesting black people are just doing it wrong when police choke them out and they die? Maybe we need to fund training for black people on how to get choked out while still breathing. 

[workswithseed 2201]

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I'm not in any way an expert on this, but I'm not sure taser is a good alternative to a choke hold. Back when I worked at the boxing gym the owner was a retired SWAT leader who would get sad to the point of tears every time a cop would shoot someone.  He blamed tasers, because they discouraged the use of hands-on physical force and control, which in turn made police more fearful and less confident in his view, and thus more likely to escalate. His view was that in his career they had gone from verbal command ->physical intimidation -> restraint ->night stick/tonfa -> gun to verbal -> taser-> gun and that was a recipe for escalation and disaster.  As close as I can remember he said some thing to the effect that when cops used their hands they felt sure of them selves and the vast majority of regular patrol guys felt confident about their own safety even though they never unholstered or even touched their pistol over the course of a career, and that the worst thing that happened was that they flew off the handle and beat somebody up, but everybody lived. 
Obviously that doesn't cover choke holds, but I've been hit in the ribs and thigh with a night stick before, and as much as that sucked I would rather have that incapacitate me than be choked out. 

If I remember correctly, Japanese officers are trained in martial arts. I don't see why ours can't either.