Minneapolis is Burning

[Pancho 44470]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

Yeah....I'm gonna wait on more detailed info on that story.

That’s the thing.  I don’t think you will hear more.

 

[Brisketexan 104596]

1 minute ago, Pancho said:

That’s the thing.  I don’t think you will hear more.

 

I'm not disputing that they had zip ties.  But I'm aware that among the "SUPER PATRIOT FREEDOM EAGLE GUN" cosplay crowd (of whom most of these white supremacists types are members), zip ties are a standard part of the kit (they are indeed functional as handcuffs).  But that doesn't prove any intent to "kidnap black people."  I have no doubt that these guys were shitty people up to shittiness, but that's a real specific allegation.  Racism, including violent racism, is bad enough, with ample real-world verifiable examples.

I'm just not comfortable characterizing everyone with zip ties as "out to kidnap black people" without more specific evidence of that intent.  That's all I'm saying.

[Longhorn_Fan68 33842]

maybe, in this instance, you shouldn't have

[Brisketexan 104596]

20 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

maybe, in this instance, you shouldn't have

???

[bad_teammate 13132]

4 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm just not comfortable characterizing everyone with zip ties as "out to kidnap black people" without more specific evidence of that intent.  That's all I'm saying.

 

Well if they were pretending to be cops, then a lot of what cops do is kidnap black people.

[Brisketexan 104596]

4 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

 

Well if they were pretending to be cops, then a lot of what cops do is kidnap black people.

See,  they don't even wait. And when you're a cop, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the neck and arrest them. You can do anything.

Sound familiar?

[Foosters 17730]

Nice country we've got here...

 

[TwiceHorn 31269]

NSIAP, but the molotov cocktail dipshits are facing a 45 year mandatory minimum from the feds.

Fucking hell.

https://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2020/07/how-mandatory-minimums-are-weaponized.html

This mandatory minimum, no doubt enacted to curry favor from the frightened masses post-McVay, is another example of tough on crime fuckery and another attempt by Congress to divest judges of discretion in sentencing for the sake of some mythical "uniformity in sentencing."  Horribad.  Congress needs to GTFO of the criminal law businesss.

Edited July 2, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Hiphopopotamos 20865]

 

[Blotto 23432]

And the language gets amped up just a little with each passing day...

Quote

A Florida sheriff issued a strongly-worded warning to anyone who may be considering violently protesting in his county, saying he would "deputize" the county's lawful gun owners for help.

"If you threaten to come to Clay County and think for one second that we'll bend our backs for you, you're sadly mistaken," Clay County Sheriff Darryl Daniels said in a video message posted on Facebook.

"Tearing up Clay County -- that's not going to be acceptable. And if we can't handle you -- you know what I'll do? I'm going to exercise the power and authority as the sheriff, and I'll make special deputies of every lawful gun owner in this county and I'll deputize them for this one purpose -- to stand in the gap between lawlessness and civility.

"That's what we're sworn to do and that's what we're gonna do. You've been warned," he said.
 
The message comes as tens of thousands of Americans have protested in recent weeks -- demonstrations that were sparked by George Floyd's death at the hands of Minneapolis police in late May. Protesters have decried police brutality and racism and called for police reform.
The majority of those demonstrations have remained peaceful. But some, in the early days of unrest, ended in looting and damage. Officials in different parts of the US hinted that the violence may have been instigated by outside groups who infiltrated the protests with an ulterior motive.

In his Facebook video, the sheriff said that while he had seen images of protests across the country, the relationships between police and the community in Clay County "are great and not strained."

"Look folks don't fall victim to subjecting yourself to this conversation that law enforcement is bad. That law enforcement is the enemy of the citizens that were sworn to protect and serve," Daniels said.
 
The sheriff said officers take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, adding "we end that (oath) with, 'so help me God.'"

"But God is absent from the media's message or Black Lives Matter or any other group out there that's making themselves a spectacle."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/florida-sheriff-deputize-gun-owners-trnd/index.html

[TwiceHorn 31269]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

NSIAP, but the molotov cocktail dipshits are facing a 45 year mandatory minimum from the feds.

Fucking hell.

https://sentencing.typepad.com/sentencing_law_and_policy/2020/07/how-mandatory-minimums-are-weaponized.html

This mandatory minimum, no doubt enacted to curry favor from the frightened masses post-McVay, is another example of tough on crime fuckery and another attempt by Congress to divest judges of discretion in sentencing for the sake of some mythical "uniformity in sentencing."  Horribad.  Congress needs to GTFO of the criminal law businesss.

*McVeigh.  I've actually spent more time pondering and reading about the USS Indianapolis than the OKC bombing.

[Brisketexan 104596]

13 minutes ago, Blotto said:

"But God is absent from the media's message or Black Lives Matter or any other group out there that's making themselves a spectacle."

"making themselves a spectacle."  Let's just translate that, shall we? "You loudmouth n****rs, I best not see you speaking up in public."  A public official, charged with keeping the law, expressed an opinion on the CONTENT of speech (BLM doesn't include God -- so add in the problem of him including a religious requirement), to deem it illegitimate.  I presume that  group speaking up in favor of the police would be allowed to "make themselves a spectacle."  It's the only reasonable takeaway from this.

For those of you out there in radioland, here's a helpful hint: the kind of people who yell "THE CONSTITUTION!" the loudest are also the people who are most likely to shit all over it.

[TwiceHorn 31269]

6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

"making themselves a spectacle."  Let's just translate that, shall we? "You loudmouth n****rs, I best not see you speaking up in public."  A public official, charged with keeping the law, expressed an opinion on the CONTENT of speech (BLM doesn't include God -- so add in the problem of him including a religious requirement), to deem it illegitimate.  I presume that  group speaking up in favor of the police would be allowed to "make themselves a spectacle."  It's the only reasonable takeaway from this.

For those of you out there in radioland, here's a helpful hint: the kind of people who yell "THE CONSTITUTION!" the loudest are also the people who are most likely to shit all over it.

Mighty presumptuous of the shire reeve to declare where God is and where God is not.  Something tells me he don't know.

[Brisketexan 104596]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Mighty presumptuous of the shire reeve to declare where God is and where God is not.  Something tells me he don't know.

Perhaps you are unaware of the new and improved Republican Jesus.  He's wherever the ruling political party says he is (and, surprise, surprise, the Good Lord is ALWAYS on their side, and provides all justification/shield for any political position they take.)

[RomaVicta 29781]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

another example of tough on crime fuckery

The whole "get tough" fad was such a disaster: another facet of our insecure adolescent disposition towards the people around us and the world in general.

Other countries are laughing at us! Get tough, send the planes, blow up a few weddings. We're tough!

America has a huge desire for narcotics! Get tough on the suppliers! Don't be soft on users even if it makes more sense! We gotta show 'em we're tough!

Throw criminals in prison. That's not tough enough! Let's stick 'em in there for too long and knowingly, laughingly expose them to rape and brutality! Now that's some fucking toughness there!

Pathetic. Cruel. Stupid.

If we were forced to watch the things we sanction in the name of toughness, most of us would vomit. But we don't like looking.

 

[RomaVicta 29781]

49 minutes ago, Blotto said:

And the language gets amped up just a little with each passing day...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/florida-sheriff-deputize-gun-owners-trnd/index.html

The president, FOX, OAN, and local idiots on the radio (KLBJ AM here is Austin. Christ, what idiots!) keep repeating that the nation is on fire. BLM is attacking praying Catholics. There's a pandemic of looting and thuggery. All lies. 

Flood Yokel World with that kind of propaganda, and this is what you get. The backlash to BLM is sickening to behold.

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20343]

20 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

The whole "get tough" fad was such a disaster

 

 

I dunno. Since three strikes began to be implemented in 1994 and since  Clinton got the funds to hire 100,000 more policemen in 1998, violent crime has plummeted. 

 

[Guest Lobo]

3 hours ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

 

To be fair to Jersey Mike, they settled on B.L.M. "Bacon, Lettuce, & 'Mato" after the slightly more offensive, "Bacon, Lettuce, & Mulato" and "Bacon, Lettuce, & Moolie."  

Because, progress America.  

[RomaVicta 29781]

7 minutes ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

 

I dunno. Since three strikes began to be implemented in 1994 and since  Clinton got the funds to hire 100,000 more policemen in 1998, violent crime has plummeted. 

 

Is there any evidence that a greater number of police has any impact on violent crime? Is this a post hoc ergo hoc fallacy? Same thing with three strikes. I thought crime in general was going down because the population of young men was decreasing, but maybe that's from longer ago.

Maybe the policy worked, I don't know. If there is evidence of causality, I'd be happy to read it.

The example of drugs which I use has not changed much. I doubt that doing nothing to stop prison rape and brutality has helped anything; it's certainly made a statement about who we are. And we still like to bomb other countries with not nearly enough discretion about what we're aiming at. All in the name of showing how tough we are as if the world doesn't know we're stupid, clumsy, and violent.

[GRHorn 105]

Lol. This is great. From a California based charter school with branches around the country. Breeding the next crop of victims.  The people that impose views like this, ultimately hurt their students imo.  
 

In summary, “Work hard. Be nice” is problematic.  🤦🏻‍♂️ 

Edited July 2, 2020 by GRHorn

[Huckleberry 32699]

It's not California based, so sorry you don't get to use your visceral hate for CA on this one. KIPP founded its first school in Houston, Texas and currently has headquarter offices in San Francisco, Washington, Chicago, and New York. It has by far its most locations in Texas because that is where it has done best.

Good job, good effort.

[UpperWestside 6136]

19 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Lol. This is great. From a California based charter school with branches around the country. Breeding the next crop of victims.  The people that impose views like this, ultimately hurt their students imo.  
 

In summary, “Work hard. Be nice” is problematic.  🤦🏻‍♂️ 

Dear Dr. Nick,

Fuck off.

Sincerely, 

People who actually give a damn about others

[GRHorn 105]

4 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

It's not California based, so sorry you don't get to use your visceral hate for CA on this one. KIPP founded its first school in Houston, Texas and currently has headquarter offices in San Francisco, Washington, Chicago, and New York. It has by far its most locations in Texas because that is where it has done best.

Good job, good effort.

Oh sorry. That’s what the Instagram account said. I know someone who works at the Houston branch. 
 

The point stands. If they’ve had such good results, maybe they should stick with the slogan. It’s actually an awesome one. 
 

[GRHorn 105]

9 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

It's not California based, so sorry you don't get to use your visceral hate for CA on this one. KIPP founded its first school in Houston, Texas and currently has headquarter offices in San Francisco, Washington, Chicago, and New York. It has by far its most locations in Texas because that is where it has done best.

Good job, good effort.

Hey Little Huck, always remember what daddy told you.
 

“Don’t stress too much about achievement. It doesn’t matter anyway. The world’s not a meritocracy. Also, don’t worry about being nice or positive. When you’re a dick and things don’t go your way, you know I’ll always have your back to blame it on someone else.”  

[Huckleberry 32699]

That's pretty funny that you couldn't decide between admitting you were wrong and trying to wave your hands with a juvenile comeback so you just went ahead and posted both. 

At least we know you understand you were wrong. So there's some progress there I suppose.

[Dahobbs 17444]

28 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Lol. This is great. From a California based charter school with branches around the country. Breeding the next crop of victims.  The people that impose views like this, ultimately hurt their students imo.  
 

In summary, “Work hard. Be nice” is problematic.  🤦🏻‍♂️ 

That's your take away? Wow. 

 

[GRHorn 105]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

That's pretty funny that you couldn't decide between admitting you were wrong and trying to wave your hands with a juvenile comeback so you just went ahead and posted both. 

At least we know you understand you were wrong. So there's some progress there I suppose.

I typically admit when I’m wrong. 

 

Yeah I probably should’ve combined the two posts and when you replied, you chose to go with a nitpicking deflection. I suppose we’re both off our games. It’s 4pm at the start of a holiday weekend. 

[GRHorn 105]

Just now, Dahobbs said:

That's your take away? Wow. 

 

Yes. It’s a laughable virtue signaling thing that subconsciously seems harmful to me. 
 

Do you have kids? 
If so would you support them adopting that line of thinking? I doubt it. 
How many parents would support that message? It’s ludicrous. 
 

I may be wrong, but that statement reeks of someone with white guilt unintentionally sending the wrong message to people they’re trying to help. 

Think about it. 

[Huckleberry 32699]

1 minute ago, GRHorn said:

I typically admit when I’m wrong. 

 

Yeah I probably should’ve combined the two posts and when you replied, you chose to go with a nitpicking deflection. I suppose we’re both off our games. It’s 4pm at the start of a holiday weekend. 

I haven't deflected at all. You made a post, you were wrong about something, I pointed out that you were wrong, then you admitted you were wrong. And then you added another post with some sort of attempt to upset me I guess. Well I hope it was that or else it was weird, pathetic, and sad instead of just pathetic and sad. Pointing that out isn't a nitpicking deflection, it's simply calling attention to the fact that your lack of intellectual curiosity caused you to embarrass yourself again. And you're clearly embarrassed or that emotional response would have never been submitted.

You read something online, believed absolutely everything about it without even considering investigating it, and posted something wrong. It's pretty standard fare among dullards these days so it's not a big deal until you make it one with the histrionics. Sadly you should have known to look into it because you actually know a Houston KIPP employee. Can't even say good effort on that one, man. Keep trying.

And if your poor writing skills meant to imply that the nitpicking deflection was the California thing to begin with, that's not nitpicking either. One of the main problems with fools like you is that you have identified "the others" and you hate and deride things they do as a reflex without thinking about them. Just like this. California votes for Democrats so everything they do must be dumb. And everyone based in California must of course also be darn liberals. The fact that California ranked third nationally in votes for Donald Trump in 2016 must be really perplexing for this simpleton approach. But it's what you're left with at this point, so keep fighting the good fight, brother.

[Dahobbs 17444]

4 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Yes. It’s a laughable virtue signaling thing that subconsciously seems harmful to me. 
 

Do you have kids? 
If so would you support them adopting that line of thinking? I doubt it. 
How many parents would support that message? It’s ludicrous. 
 

I may be wrong, but that statement reeks of someone with white guilt unintentionally sending the wrong message to people they’re trying to help. 

Think about it. 

I do. And I have thought about it. And I have concluded that your thoughts are idiotic. Oh no, a school wants to change its slogan! Woe is us! It will now lead to "breeding the next crop of victims," whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean.  I'll tell you what actually breeds the next crop of victims, being victimized by both systemic and intentional racism. The fact that you think teaching kids about the challenges and difficulties others face and encouraging them to address societal problems is a bad thing says loads about you. 

[GRHorn 105]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

I haven't deflected at all. You made a post, you were wrong about something, I pointed out that you were wrong, then you admitted you were wrong. And then you added another post with some sort of attempt to upset me I guess. Well I hope it was that or else it was weird, pathetic, and sad instead of just pathetic and sad. Pointing that out isn't a nitpicking deflection, it's simply calling attention to the fact that your lack of intellectual curiosity caused you to embarrass yourself again. And you're clearly embarrassed or that emotional response would have never been submitted.

You read something online, believed absolutely everything about it without even considering investigating it, and posted something wrong. It's pretty standard fare among dullards these days so it's not a big deal until you make it one with the histrionics. Sadly you should have known to look into it because you actually know a Houston KIPP employee. Can't even say good effort on that one, man. Keep trying.

And if your poor writing skills meant to imply that the nitpicking deflection was the California thing to begin with, that's not nitpicking either. One of the main problems with fools like you is that you have identified "the others" and you hate and deride things they do as a reflex without thinking about them. Just like this. California votes for Democrats so everything they do must be dumb. And everyone based in California must of course also be darn liberals. The fact that California ranked third nationally in votes for Donald Trump in 2016 must be really perplexing for this simpleton approach. But it's what you're left with at this point, so keep fighting the good fight, brother.

I was wrong about a factoid peripheral to the actual post. That’s it. 
 

My follow up post assumed you disagreed with my assessment that the school’s message is ridiculous. I guess you never really stated that so I shouldn’t have responded in that fashion.

Like I said your only initial response was to nitpick so I guess we’ll never know. 
 

[jimmyjazz 45554]

5 hours ago, Lobo said:

To be fair to Jersey Mike, they settled on B.L.M. "Bacon, Lettuce, & 'Mato" after the slightly more offensive, "Bacon, Lettuce, & Mulato" and "Bacon, Lettuce, & Moolie." 

Little known fact:  the failed first campaign was "Bacon, Lettuce, and My Nigga".

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

I'm not really sure I understand how deciding to change a slogan means that meritocracy is dead at that school.  There must have been some stuff written in code that I didn't get the decoder ring for. 

Can you explain this @GRHorn

[staboner 4957]

I don't know why we keep engaging with Tahoe guys

[Guadaloopy 10921]

5 hours ago, Horn Under a Bad Sign said:

 

I dunno. Since three strikes began to be implemented in 1994 and since  Clinton got the funds to hire 100,000 more policemen in 1998, violent crime has plummeted. 

 

Or it could be something else that contributed to the drop in crime.  
 

“Donahue and Levitt (2001) presented evidence that the legalization of abortion in the early 1970s played an important role in the crime drop of the 1990s.” 

THE IMPACT OF LEGALIZED ABORTION ON CRIME OVER THE LAST TWO DECADES.

[GRHorn 105]

1 hour ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

I'm not really sure I understand how deciding to change a slogan means that meritocracy is dead at that school.  There must have been some stuff written in code that I didn't get the decoder ring for. 

Can you explain this @GRHorn

Meritocracy is an illusion. If you believe that on a macro level to the extent that you remove “work hard” from your slogan, then why wouldn’t it apply at a micro level. 

In any case, it implies that long term hard work is not rewarded and why really bother? 

[StassneyHorn 6538]

Virtue signaling is when someone is agitated or mad about something I don’t care about and shouldn’t be. Cause if I don’t care about it, nobody should.

[Dahobbs 17444]

1 hour ago, StassneyHorn said:

Virtue signaling is when someone is agitated or mad about something I don’t care about and shouldn’t be. Cause if I don’t care about it, nobody should.

Pretty sure @GRHorn is the one "virtue signaling" about this concerns for the education of america's youths. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20343]

12 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Is there any evidence that a greater number of police has any impact on violent crime? Is this a post hoc ergo hoc fallacy? Same thing with three strikes. I thought crime in general was going down because the population of young men was decreasing, but maybe that's from longer ago.

 

 

The population of the U.S. has grown from 263 million in 1994 to 330 million today. I'd be very surprised if the number of young men is decreasing.

[NameAlreadyInUse 5106]

5 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Meritocracy is an illusion. If you believe that on a macro level to the extent that you remove “work hard” from your slogan, then why wouldn’t it apply at a micro level. 

In any case, it implies that long term hard work is not rewarded and why really bother? 

Ahh ok I see that you completely don’t understand what you are talking about here. They are actually making the statement that taking a stand is more important than being nice. Working hard isn’t going anywhere with their ethos. 

[VRHorn 718]

So @GRHorn said he worked in a hospital and it’s assumed he’s a doctor, but what if he’s a janitor? It would explain Bob’s as a destination meal, at least.

He is also dumb as a bag of hammers (where is he, btw?) and I would prefer a doctor who isn’t as dumb as a bag of hammers.

[Fudge Nuggets 19150]

16 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Congress needs to GTFO of the criminal law businesss.

Or the judicial branch could do its fucking job.

[Fudge Nuggets 19150]

13 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

If we were forced to watch the things we sanction in the name of toughness, most of us would vomit. But we don't like looking.

Completely agree and let's see how many states will go for capital punishment if all executions were televised.  No masks for the executioners; you want to participate in the homicide of a human being you own it.

[Fudge Nuggets 19150]

6 hours ago, GRHorn said:

Meritocracy is an illusion. If you believe that on a macro level to the extent that you remove “work hard” from your slogan, then why wouldn’t it apply at a micro level. 

In any case, it implies that long term hard work is not rewarded and why really bother? 

When you have "the talk" with your son it's about not getting a girl knocked up.

When an African American has "the talk" with their son it's about not getting shot by the police.

But you knew that already, right?  Same thing, same circumstances.

[GRHorn 105]

Good for Dat Dude, pointing out one of the massive red flags with BLM that I’ve mentioned here before and others like @trauma babe dismissed. How can so many people support a group that has the single biggest issue affecting their community completely wrong? 
 

 

[Texaspython 231]

21 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Is there any evidence that a greater number of police has any impact on violent crime? Is this a post hoc ergo hoc fallacy? Same thing with three strikes. I thought crime in general was going down because the population of young men was decreasing, but maybe that's from longer ago.

Maybe the policy worked, I don't know. If there is evidence of causality, I'd be happy to read it.

The example of drugs which I use has not changed much. I doubt that doing nothing to stop prison rape and brutality has helped anything; it's certainly made a statement about who we are. And we still like to bomb other countries with not nearly enough discretion about what we're aiming at. All in the name of showing how tough we are as if the world doesn't know we're stupid, clumsy, and violent.

The issues as to why we increased our total number of police is complicated but part of it was the reduction in our standing army. All the sudden we had a great number of people that needed jobs and police work seemed like a good fit. While well intentioned, I think we can all see there have been problems.

The increase in the number of police isn’t so much a problem but rather their training and deployment are terrible. Their training is far more militaristic which is really really bad. A good military does one thing, kill the enemy effectively. Police don’t do that, or rather they shouldn’t. Secondly, most crime can be pinpointed to very small pockets. Instead of drilling down on that data and eradicating crime in those small pockets, most large police forces simply deploy their police in low income areas which leads to all sorts of issues. Harassing mostly law abiding people who aren’t bothering anyone but get caught doing relatively low level crime (usually drug related) that without the police presence, wouldn’t even get caught. The sort of thing those in more wealthy areas aren’t bothered with. Writing tickets to people who can’t afford to pay them, etc.. Essentially we’ve deployed our massive police force to harass the working poor and it’s had a disastrous result.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Texaspython

[bolverk 29399]

27 minutes ago, GRHorn said:

Good for Dat Dude, pointing out one of the massive red flags with BLM that I’ve mentioned here before and others like @trauma babe dismissed. How can so many people support a group that has the single biggest issue affecting their community completely wrong? 
 

 

He left out key portions of the mission statement in each of those quotes. Now, the statements themselves are admittedly open to some interpretation (it's poorly written), but an honest discussion requires viewing those statements in context. Here they are in full with the omitted portions bolded.

Quote

 

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

 

I do encourage you to read the whole thing and promise it's not nearly as ominous or dismissive as you seem to believe.

Edited July 3, 2020 by bolverk

[GRHorn 105]

4 hours ago, bolverk said:

He left out key portions of the mission statement in each of those quotes. Now, the statements themselves are admittedly open to some interpretation (it's poorly written), but an honest discussion requires viewing those statements in context. Here they are in full with the omitted portions bolded.

I do encourage you to read the whole thing and promise it's not nearly as ominous or dismissive as you seem to believe.

I’ve read it before. It’s poorly written? Like it doesn’t communicate their goals effectively? It’s not one of my clumsily written CR posts. It’s their mission statement. It says what it says. 
 

That stated goal in their mission statement runs counter to what data and the experience of African Americans would strongly suggest is the direction they should be headed. 

Why would they do that? It doesn’t really make sense. 
 

Then again, one of the founders called herself and another co-founder “trained Marxists” when asked what is her actual ideology. 
 

 

That’s a term that can mean different things to different people, but maybe the Surly Intelligentsia can explain the pros and cons of a group led by self described “trained Marxists” being advanced as the symbol of this potential new civil rights movement. 

 

[StassneyHorn 6538]

Pro: Nobody under 40 gives a shit about the label

[HenryJames 65889]