Minneapolis is Burning

[Brisketexan 105273]

23 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Negged for strawman arguing during a serious disruption of the republic. Conflating a massive general demonstration with accompanying looting has been a consistent tactic of those on the wrong side of this issue. On the simplest level, nodding in satisfaction as you get a chance to avoid the main issue is a form intellectual dishonesty.

We're not choosing between whatever you think Antifa is and white supremacists. Only a scoundrel would boil down the issue to that. Do you mean to do so? If so, abandon your bogey man and open your eyes.

Further, I would not say all looting, particularly at the beginning, was mere opportunism. It flowed from righteous anger ignited in people who have been told over and over again that even their lives are not valued. You gonna take my life? I'm gonna take this merchandise. (Interestingly, after the LA riots and looting, a lot of things were returned.)

These organized assaults on businesses are criminal. I'll presume to take up Brisket's point about the police and much of government creating a state of lawlessness by themselves breaking the law in the most extreme of ways: public summary punishment that amounts to execution of a suspect by the police in broad daylight. 

Where is the law?

Where is protection under the law?

Hello, chaos.

Hello faux pearl clutchers exclaiming, "Oh my, there's looting! Such thuggery! Those people were just waiting for their chance to steal!" Then let's break out the AKs and kill some more of those people.

Stop villainizing the victims. 

For the millionth time, this is actually one of the most important reasons for the cops NOT to violate suspects' rights etc.

LAWLESSNESS BEGETS LAWLESSNESS.  When one party trashes their obligations under the social contract, the other party (the people) will say "well then fuck it, we don't need to perform."

The Rule of Law is just the social contract laid down on paper -- laws apply to all of us equally, they protect us and are enforced against us equally.  When one party (the police) breach that agreement, it's a tenet of contract law (which is really just a codification of a basic concept of fairness) that when Party A breaches a contract, Party B is no longer under any obligation to perform.  

So all the hand-wringing about "but law and order!" isn't WRONG.....it just misses the crucial fact that the party in breach, who by their breach dissolved the contract, is responsible for the destruction of the Rule of Law and the dissolution of the social contract.  Am I excusing the violence and looting?  Of course not.  We should all endeavor to behave decently whether required to or not.  

But this is key: if you want the protection of the Rule of Law, then you must ensure that the protection of the Rule of Law applies equally to all.  And that's on us.  That's on all of us, who can collectively put the pressure on PDs and political leaders to ensure that it does so.

[RomaVicta 29967]

11 hours ago, Johnny Sack said:

I’m absolutely shocked Episcopal Bishop Mariann Budde isn’t a Trump supporter.  Figured this dude was all MAGA

 

 

Sack absolutely destroys the bishop.

"I wouldn't bang her; she looks like a dude." "She supported a Dem against Ted Cruz."

The capper:

"I don't think she supports Trump!"

You've become Donald Trump: Dismissive (afraid) of women & seeing the world totally in terms of partisan loyalty.

It's also telling that you think a moment in our history where there is righteous public, massive unrest; woefully unchecked plague (I know, I know, anything under 2m dead is a yuge success); and a collapsed economy to race in and wave your Trump flag.

Great job. Your loyalty will be noted in the bunker where your name will be at the top of the Patriot List given to President Trump as his staff prepares the proscription lists. Fear not, American Patriot! Socialism will never soil our women folk, nor shall the bootstrap-phobic poor escape the yoke!

I'm actually saddened that I can no longer avoid finding support for Trump despicable, but the issue has gone way beyond simple disagreement.

[dcar00 14344]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

For the millionth time, this is actually one of the most important reasons for the cops NOT to violate suspects' rights etc.

LAWLESSNESS BEGETS LAWLESSNESS.  When one party trashes their obligations under the social contract, the other party (the people) will say "well then fuck it, we don't need to perform."

The Rule of Law is just the social contract laid down on paper -- laws apply to all of us equally, they protect us and are enforced against us equally.  When one party (the police) breach that agreement, it's a tenet of contract law (which is really just a codification of a basic concept of fairness) that when Party A breaches a contract, Party B is no longer under any obligation to perform.  

So all the hand-wringing about "but law and order!" isn't WRONG.....it just misses the crucial fact that the party in breach, who by their breach dissolved the contract, is responsible for the destruction of the Rule of Law and the dissolution of the social contract.  Am I excusing the violence and looting?  Of course not.  We should all endeavor to behave decently whether required to or not.  

But this is key: if you want the protection of the Rule of Law, then you must ensure that the protection of the Rule of Law applies equally to all.  And that's on us.  That's on all of us, who can collectively put the pressure on PDs and political leaders to ensure that it does so.

so 9 unarmed black men were killed by police last year, 19 white men, 6 hispanics.  the killer cop has been arrested, charged and is in jail.  the feds have been summoned almost immediately.  there isn't a most important reason  for cops not to violate rights.  people have them and they should not be violated ever specifically because they have them and for no other reason.

[DigglerontheHoof 21212]

3 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Sack absolutely destroys the bishop.

"I wouldn't bang her; she looks like a dude." "She supported a Dem against Ted Cruz."

The capper:

"I don't think she supports Trump!"

You've become Donald Trump: Dismissive (afraid) of women & seeing the world totally in terms of partisan loyalty.

It's also telling that you think a moment in our history where there is righteous public, massive unrest; woefully unchecked plague (I know, I know, anything under 2m dead is a yuge success); and a collapsed economy to race in and wave your Trump flag.

Great job. Your loyalty will be noted in the bunker where your name will be at the top of the Patriot List given to President Trump as his staff prepares the proscription lists. Fear not, American Patriot! Socialism will never soil our women folk, nor shall the bootstrap-phobic poor escape the yoke!

I'm actually saddened that I can no longer avoid finding support for Trump despicable, but the issue has gone way beyond simple disagreement.

He's a scared pussy, like most trumpkins.  A coward through and through. 

[MonkeyDoughnut 10352]

16 minutes ago, BrazilHorn said:

Any of you catch the interview on MSNBC with Art Acevedo. Showed some video of him yelling in a crowd about "white skateboarders" and then interviewed him talking out of both sides of his mouth about police brutality etc

Acevedo is a total POS Liar and seeing him trying to act like he gives any fucks about police accountability made me ragey.

He needs to spend more time getting his own department in order

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13587]

4 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Sack absolutely destroys the bishop.

"I wouldn't bang her; she looks like a dude." "She supported a Dem against Ted Cruz."

The capper:

"I don't think she supports Trump!"

You've become Donald Trump: Dismissive (afraid) of women & seeing the world totally in terms of partisan loyalty.

It's also telling that you think a moment in our history where there is righteous public, massive unrest; woefully unchecked plague (I know, I know, anything under 2m dead is a yuge success); and a collapsed economy to race in and wave your Trump flag.

Great job. Your loyalty will be noted in the bunker where your name will be at the top of the Patriot List given to President Trump as his staff prepares the proscription lists. Fear not, American Patriot! Socialism will never soil our women folk, nor shall the bootstrap-phobic poor escape the yoke!

I'm actually saddened that I can no longer avoid finding support for Trump despicable, but the issue has gone way beyond simple disagreement.

The only valid criticism of Trump comes from Trump supporters. If you criticize Trump, you're not a Trump supporter.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13587]

https://theintercept.com/2020/06/01/louisville-police-left-the-body-of-david-mcatee-on-the-street-for-12-hours/

[mchookem 16367]

jesus wtf were they doing firing LIVE rounds into a crowd?? 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

Quote

The New York Times and CNN are both reporting that Trump orchestrated this attack against U.S. citizens (who were engaging legally in activities guaranteed to them by the First Amendment) in part because he’d taken criticism for staying in a secure White House bunker instead of appearing in public over the weekend. The Episcopal bishop who oversees D.C. told the Washington Post that the church was not given advance notice of Trump’s event and that she is “outraged” that it was used “as a prop.” The church’s rector, who was present, told a reporter from the Religion News Service that law enforcement officers removed a group that included members of the clergy from the church’s outdoor patio before the president’s appearance.

This is, to be unavoidably grandiose about it, the most direct way a president could violate his most basic duty—protecting Americans and the Constitution—short of actually shooting someone himself, although it is of course impossible to imagine him operating a firearm without accidentally causing a fatal self-injury. A person who does this has no business leading our government, which was created as a response to military and police oppression, and which stakes its legitimacy on its duty to work for its people and ensure their inalienable, natural rights.

The minimum duty of—let’s be realistic—every congressional Democrat and Mitt Romney is to say, forcefully, that what happened Monday was immediately disqualifying. The U.S. has a mechanism by which it can remove a president, and all that mechanism currently requires is for 15 or so Republican senators to accept the possibility of losing a primary election sometime between five months and six years from now, a loss that would compel them, at worst, to accept lucrative corporate board of directors jobs and speaking engagements at Mastercard sales conferences. The pressure on these senators should be as intense as possible; for the rest of the government to allow the president to remain in office in this situation would be an admission that it, too, has failed.

 

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/06/trump-must-go-before-its-too-late.html?via=taps_top

[Brisketexan 105273]

11 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

so 9 unarmed black men were killed by police last year, 19 white men, 6 hispanics.  the killer cop has been arrested, charged and is in jail.  the feds have been summoned almost immediately.  there isn't a most important reason  for cops not to violate rights.  people have them and they should not be violated ever specifically because they have them and for no other reason.

Let's break down your summary to look at all of the places that the Rule of Law broke down.

1) a person wearing the badge given to him by We the People murdered someone.  That's really bad.

2) three other persons wearing that badge, sworn to protect, instead watched a murder being committed and actually protected the murderer.  That's REALLY bad.  The system that was supposed to protect the victim chose to protect the murderer.

3) the only reason that we know the details of this event was citizens recording it as it happened.  NOT by any of the officers involved reporting it, even after the fact.  The Rule of Law didn't call this out -- ordinary citizens did.

4) only AFTER citizens brought it to the world's attention were the officers fired.  But just fired.

5) A man was murdered on camera, in slow motion.  Had anyone NOT wearing a badge done that, they would have been in handcuffs immediately.  When a cop did it, it took violent demonstrations before the authorities did what they would have done to you and me: arrested and charged him.  One rule for me, another for thee?  That's SUPER bad.

6) The rank and file of the PD of the offenders has closed ranks, and defends them, choosing the side of murderers instead of the side of the people they are sworn to protect.  It's not a mere dereliction of duty -- it's a flat-out refutation of such duty.

7) Effectively everyone knows that police misconduct is a lot more than their mere murder of suspects.  It's relentless lying, covering up, and protecting the worst internal actors at the expense of the public interest.  "At least he didn't kill him" is no exoneration for a cop who nonetheless beats or harms a suspect without legal authority to do so, or who lies on a report, or who lies on the witness stand, or who keeps pulling over black drivers for "looking suspicious in this neighborhood."  When we start counting THOSE incidents....we lose count.  And yeah, lots of them have happened to folks who frequent this board.

SUMMARY: Law enforcement has a relentless pattern and practice of acting outside of the Rule of Law.  Between those who are the actual front-line bad actors, and those who cover for them/protect them, it's hard to find a cop who isn't in one of those two groups.  And when they have been asked -- BEGGED -- to change their ways, not only do they fail to do so, they stridently resist such change.  And plenty of We the People choose to be their bootlickers, and shout down and denigrate those who would dare challenge the authority of the police, instead of taking even a split second to listen to their legitimate grievances.  That's how you break a society.  It's exactly how you do it.

[Coelenterate Fuccboi 13119]

What if Antifa is a shell company of white supremacy?

[Ths71 472]

Will there be face painting and balloon animals?

Rode my bike over there when it started. Not sure but there may have been outside agitators from Prosper and Little Elm.

Got thirsty for a beer and couldn’t find the bricks so rode back home before the march.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[jimmyjazz 46093]

It's no surprise that EMAW wasn't intellectually curious enough to read the study that is cited in his post.  If one exercises just the minimum amount of "let me google that for you" (literally, click the link in the article), then one will find a seemingly trivial correction as well as a second cited comment that draws the following conclusion, based on original authors' data:

Quote

The stark contrast between the published finding and our finding contradicts Johnson et al.’s (1) claims that their results hold across subgroups of victims. Contrary to this claim, their data are entirely consistent with the public perception that young male victims of fatal use of force are disproportionally Black. Importantly, neither the original finding nor our finding addresses the causes of racial disparities among victims of deadly use of force. Our results merely confirm other recent findings that racial disparities exist and that they are particularly large for young males (2).

 

So, you know.  EMAW thought it was a home run, but it appears to have veered just right of the foul pole.

[HornPhD 1368]

5 hours ago, LongestHorn said:

I called Watkins Glen, NY, Sgt. in Charge Brandon Mathews to talk about the fact that one of his cops, Robert Brill, was a member of a couple of FB groups connected to the Proud Boys and the “Kekistani Freestate,” or Kek.

You know what he told me?  

“We don’t discuss personnel matters,” and he hung up on me. Racist Robert Brill didn’t call me back, but I only left that one restrained and very civil VM.

Maybe you guys will have better luck.
Phone: (607)-535-7883

You can also email the mayor:

https://www.watkinsglen.us/board-of-trustees.php

[RDCanecutter 26465]

10 hours ago, tchookem said:

10 hours ago, Tom said:

 
 
Protester 1: "Hey, man. I'm down with the cause and wanna help.  Anywhere you want me to drop a pile of bricks?  Somewhere near downtown Dallas?"
Protester 2:  "Thanks, brother!  We actually think urban centers are played out.  If we want the nation to really pay attention and see us, I think we should hit that sparsely populated cookie-cutter subdivision on the outskirts of civilization.  I saw there's a bunch of undeveloped land across the street where we could really do some damage."

Read more  

New Hashtag: #ANTIFAeverywhere?

Police: We've traced the call from Antifa. It is coming from inside the house.

Karen in Frisco: That's not possible. There's no one else here except my kids.

[Dropout 355]

6 minutes ago, Ths71 said:

Rode my bike over there when it started. Not sure but there may have been outside agitators from Prosper and Little Elm.

Got thirsty for a beer and couldn’t find the bricks so rode back home before the march.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

They brought me in years ago from even further out. Been scoping and preparing the area. PM for brick locations.

 

Just now, RDCanecutter said:

Police: We've traced the call from Antifa. It is coming from inside the house.

Karen in Frisco: That's not possible. There's no one else here except my kids.

I’m hiding in her closet.

[Underdog 28767]

3 hours ago, Casual Encounter said:

I just hope they’re at least stealing condoms.

[Huckleberry 33071]

11 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

It's no surprise that EMAW wasn't intellectually curious enough to read the study that is cited in his post.  If one exercises just the minimum amount of "let me google that for you" (literally, click the link in the article), then one will find a seemingly trivial correction as well as a second cited comment that draws the following conclusion, based on original authors' data:

 

So, you know.  EMAW thought it was a home run, but it appears to have veered just right of the foul pole.

Yeah, that wasn't very tough to figure out just looking at the numbers without context. You know, if you have any intelligence.

"Look at this study! It says here that 12.6% of the population represents 26.5% of the deaths! THERE'S NO BIAS!"

[dcar00 14344]

21 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Let's break down your summary to look at all of the places that the Rule of Law broke down.

1) a person wearing the badge given to him by We the People murdered someone.  That's really bad.

2) three other persons wearing that badge, sworn to protect, instead watched a murder being committed and actually protected the murderer.  That's REALLY bad.  The system that was supposed to protect the victim chose to protect the murderer.

3) the only reason that we know the details of this event was citizens recording it as it happened.  NOT by any of the officers involved reporting it, even after the fact.  The Rule of Law didn't call this out -- ordinary citizens did.

4) only AFTER citizens brought it to the world's attention were the officers fired.  But just fired.

5) A man was murdered on camera, in slow motion.  Had anyone NOT wearing a badge done that, they would have been in handcuffs immediately.  When a cop did it, it took violent demonstrations before the authorities did what they would have done to you and me: arrested and charged him.  One rule for me, another for thee?  That's SUPER bad.

6) The rank and file of the PD of the offenders has closed ranks, and defends them, choosing the side of murderers instead of the side of the people they are sworn to protect.  It's not a mere dereliction of duty -- it's a flat-out refutation of such duty.

7) Effectively everyone knows that police misconduct is a lot more than their mere murder of suspects.  It's relentless lying, covering up, and protecting the worst internal actors at the expense of the public interest.  "At least he didn't kill him" is no exoneration for a cop who nonetheless beats or harms a suspect without legal authority to do so, or who lies on a report, or who lies on the witness stand, or who keeps pulling over black drivers for "looking suspicious in this neighborhood."  When we start counting THOSE incidents....we lose count.  And yeah, lots of them have happened to folks who frequent this board.

SUMMARY: Law enforcement has a relentless pattern and practice of acting outside of the Rule of Law.  Between those who are the actual front-line bad actors, and those who cover for them/protect them, it's hard to find a cop who isn't in one of those two groups.  And when they have been asked -- BEGGED -- to change their ways, not only do they fail to do so, they stridently resist such change.  And plenty of We the People choose to be their bootlickers, and shout down and denigrate those who would dare challenge the authority of the police, instead of taking even a split second to listen to their legitimate grievances.  That's how you break a society.  It's exactly how you do it.

right.  thats a lot of words for cops suck and are in it to protect their own. who doesn't already know that? who has oversite of the city cops to fix the problem?

[Brisketexan 105273]

3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

right.  thats a lot of words for cops suck and are in it to protect their own. who doesn't already know that? who has oversite of the city cops to fix the problem?

Being that anyone of any consequence who tries to bring attention to it historically and consistently gets shit on and shouted down as a treasonous communist antifa whatever......We the People who do that bear the responsibility.  We do.

This happens because enough of We the People WANT IT TO HAPPEN.  Our leaders are doing WHAT ENOUGH OF US WANT THEM TO DO.  Protecting cops, excusing everything in the name of "law and order."

The enemy is a huge chunk of US.  That's the problem, dude.

[HenryJames 66159]

 

[dcar00 14344]

Just now, Brisketexan said:

Being that anyone of any consequence who tries to bring attention to it historically and consistently gets shit on and shouted down as a treasonous communist antifa whatever......We the People who do that bear the responsibility.  We do.

This happens because enough of We the People WANT IT TO HAPPEN.  Our leaders are doing WHAT ENOUGH OF US WANT THEM TO DO.  Protecting cops, excusing everything in the name of "law and order."

The enemy is a huge chunk of US.  That's the problem, dude.

I thought it was a race issue.

[Bozo_Casanova 26522]

5 hours ago, RPM said:

I heard they were fightin' coons.

Knock him out, John!

[Brisketexan 105273]

1 minute ago, dcar00 said:

I thought it was a race issue.

Entirely?  Of course not.  Is race inextricably embedded in the problem?  You bet.

It's a problem that cops abuse their authority, lie, and beat up suspects.  Across the board.

It's an embedded, worse problem, that they do so disproportionately with black people.

You can be bad about one thing, and then manage to be even worse about that thing with a certain class of people.  Cops manage to pull that off.  Black people have a particularly acute reason to want policing to change.  But we all have that reason, even if to a lesser degree.

[Brisketexan 105273]

5 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

And what "protest related" charges would those be?  Because he wasn't doing anything different than the hundred other peaceful protesters there.  Except he said things the cops didn't like to hear.  It was literally an enforcement of the law against someone specifically because of the content of his speech.

The Section 1983 lawsuits that PDs are going to have to defend after all of this are going to be staggering in number.

[jimmyjazz 46093]

15 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Yeah, that wasn't very tough to figure out just looking at the numbers without context. You know, if you have any intelligence.

"Look at this study! It says here that 12.6% of the population represents 26.5% of the deaths! THERE'S NO BIAS!"

The supposed "gotcha" in all this is the parallel conclusion that the race of the shooting officer(s) didn't correlate to the race of the victim.  Somehow, they then decided that such shootings are not racially motivated.  Just a little bit of reflection might lead to the more obvious conclusion:  police officers, regardless of race, tend to target young black males in fatal shootings more than any other demographic, even when the data are adjusted for community makeup, etc.

[dcar00 14344]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Entirely?  Of course not.  Is race inextricably embedded in the problem?  You bet.

It's a problem that cops abuse their authority, lie, and beat up suspects.  Across the board.

It's an embedded, worse problem, that they do so disproportionately with black people.

You can be bad about one thing, and then manage to be even worse about that thing with a certain class of people.  Cops manage to pull that off.  Black people have a particularly acute reason to want policing to change.  But we all have that reason, even if to a lesser degree.

great.  where are the people who have the authority to fix it?  what are they doing?

[jimmyjazz 46093]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

And what "protest related" charges would those be?  Because he wasn't doing anything different than the hundred other peaceful protesters there.  Except he said things the cops didn't like to hear.  It was literally an enforcement of the law against someone specifically because of the content of his speech.

I bet it was because the guy stepped off the curb into the street.  That said, someone scootered by against traffic just seconds earlier, and no cop budged, so either they are being willfully inconsistent or they just trumped up some violation.

[Bozo_Casanova 26522]

1 hour ago, BrazilHorn said:

Any of you catch the interview on MSNBC with Art Acevedo. Showed some video of him yelling in a crowd about "white skateboarders" and then interviewed him talking out of both sides of his mouth about police brutality etc

Acevedo is a total POS Liar and seeing him trying to act like he gives any fucks about police accountability made me ragey.

Art Acevedo is OK, as such things go. There's a reason why Nelson Linder respects him as much as the does. The issue Acevedo is that he's more of a direction setter than a discipline enforcer at the street level, which Nelson explains below. That was the argument for Brian Manley and the results of that so far are ... not great.

But I do think these guys are doing their best. We've equipped and trained and recruited police for war. We shouldn't be surprised when war breaks out. 

 

 

[dcar00 14344]

acevedo is a POS opportunist and basically sucks ass.

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13587]

16 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

right.  thats a lot of words for cops suck and are in it to protect their own. who doesn't already know that? 

The president who gave a speech in which he complained police were too "nice" to arrested suspects and encouraged them to rough them up, and millions of his enablers.

[dcar00 14344]

5 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I bet it was because the guy stepped off the curb into the street.  That said, someone scootered by against traffic just seconds earlier, and no cop budged, so either they are being willfully inconsistent or they just trumped up some violation.

you don't have to be the fastest to get away from the bear, you just have to be faster than the other guy you are with...

[wildcat09 29376]

2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

acevedo is a POS opportunist and basically sucks ass.

This is 100% true. Now think about the fact that he's still very clearly one of the best police chiefs in the country.

[RomaVicta 29967]

12 hours ago, stone oak said:

Sad that you are more upset about this instead of the lack of leadership across every heavily democratic city this past weekend. The peaceful protests have been completely hijacked by organized domestic terrorists and no one seems to understand the difference. These people want to divide us more and more and destroy this country. Civil War is what they want and frankly, we are heading toward that.

This just in from the Interwebs. Bill?

Reggie, amazingly, a partisan circle jerk has erupted amid the demonstrations. Sophistry such as all of this being about Antifa, thugs, or it's the Dem run cities that are the problem have Trumpists applauding and, ewwwwww!, touching each other. These circles seem impervious to irony or shame. More to come after the adults resume charge. Back to you, Sandy and Reggie.

 

[dcar00 14344]

4 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This is 100% true. Now think about the fact that he's still very clearly one of the best police chiefs in the country.

I couldn't really comment on how he compares to the 100's of police Chiefs in the country.  he seems Jimbo Fisher-ish.

[DigglerontheHoof 21212]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

This is 100% true. Now think about the fact that he's still very clearly one of the best police chiefs in the country.

[Brisketexan 105273]

11 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

great.  where are the people who have the authority to fix it?  what are they doing?

Millions of them are marching in the streets.  Like, as we speak.

"The people who have the authority to fix it" -- what you still don't get is, WE ARE THOSE PEOPLE.  Ultimate authority belongs to We the People.  And it always has.

The problem is not that our leaders and paid agents of government force aren't doing what the bulk of We the People want them to do.  The problem is that is EXACTLY what they are doing.  Law enforcement works the way it does because enough of We the People WANT IT TO.  Shit, just read some of the posts on this board -- law and order above all else, it's the most sacred thing, be tough on crime no matter the cost.  Listen to the rhetoric of recent years when anyone tried to call out the problem -- TRAITOR!  UNGRATEFUL COMMIE!  I BACK THE BLUE!  BLUE LIVES MATTER!  That is public pressure DEMANDING that the cops don't back down, that they crack skulls.  It reached its peak when the voice of those people, the POTUS, actively encouraged cops to do exactly that -- crack skulls -- in a public speech.

And the cops -- specifically including the PD that lit this particular fire -- took him to heart, and specifically THANKED him for allowing them to be violent shitheads.

WE DID THIS.  Sure, not all of us -- just like any political issue, all it takes is enough of us.  And by numbers and position of power, the faction of We the People that wants an armed instrument of the state to abuse its power and victimize the most marginalized has had its way, for decades....for well over a century, actually.

All that's happening now is another faction of We the People is saying enough of this fucking bullshit.

[dcar00 14344]

9 minutes ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

The president who gave a speech in which he complained police were too "nice" to arrested suspects and encouraged them to rough them up, and millions of his enablers.

aaaaaaaargh.  nice sentence structure though

[TheStoicPaisano 9923]

Ginni Sack and other wypipo are predictably apoplectic about this.

Edited June 2, 2020 by TheStoicPaisano

[dcar00 14344]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Millions of them are marching in the streets.  Like, as we speak.

"The people who have the authority to fix it" -- what you still don't get is, WE ARE THOSE PEOPLE.  Ultimate authority belongs to We the People.  And it always has.

The problem is not that our leaders and paid agents of government force aren't doing what the bulk of We the People want them to do.  The problem is that is EXACTLY what they are doing.  Law enforcement works the way it does because enough of We the People WANT IT TO.  Shit, just read some of the posts on this board -- law and order above all else, it's the most sacred thing, be tough on crime no matter the cost.  Listen to the rhetoric of recent years when anyone tried to call out the problem -- TRAITOR!  UNGRATEFUL COMMIE!  I BACK THE BLUE!  BLUE LIVES MATTER!  That is public pressure DEMANDING that the cops don't back down, that they crack skulls.  It reached its peak when the voice of those people, the POTUS, actively encouraged cops to do exactly that -- crack skulls -- in a public speech.

And the cops -- specifically including the PD that lit this particular fire -- took him to heart, and specifically THANKED him for allowing them to be violent shitheads.

WE DID THIS.  Sure, not all of us -- just like any political issue, all it takes is enough of us.  And by numbers and position of power, the faction of We the People that wants an armed instrument of the state to abuse its power and victimize the most marginalized has had its way, for decades....for well over a century, actually.

All that's happening now is another faction of We the People is saying enough of this fucking bullshit.

well fucking get out from behind the keyboard and get out there.. sounds to me like the Mayors of this country are a bunch of do-nothing criminal conduct enablers.

[SmokeyTheBear 5562]

Oh lawd

[wildcat09 29376]

Just now, dcar00 said:

I couldn't really comment on how he compares to the 100's of police Chiefs in the country.  he seems Jimbo Fisher-ish.

Well HPD hasn’t declared war on the people of Houston yet, so it’s already a pretty significant exception. Look at Chicago, LA, New York, Dallas, Louisville, Philly, etc. last night and then look at Houston.

I’m well aware of how much Art sucks, but he’s done a much better job than his peers. “Don’t terrorize peaceful citizens” is a low bar to clear so he doesn’t deserve praise for clearing it, it’s just illustrative of how awful police are in the rest of the country.

[dcar00 14344]

Just now, wildcat09 said:

Well HPD hasn’t declared war on the people of Houston yet, so it’s already a pretty significant exception. Look at Chicago, LA, New York, Dallas, Louisville, Philly, etc. last night and then look at Houston.

I’m well aware of how much Art sucks, but he’s done a much better job than his peers. “Don’t terrorize peaceful citizens” is a low bar to clear so he doesn’t deserve praise for clearing it, it’s just illustrative of how awful police are in the rest of the country.

fair enough. 

[BradInATX 9208]

Obama: passes the first criminal justice reform in modern history aimed at demilitarizing the police and reducing sentencing disparity by race.

 

Trump: Rolls those reforms back and literally tells cops to rough people up.

 

"But how can we know which side is responsible for police brutality?!?! We just have to accept that we can never know!"

 

 

 

 

[F250 28814]

35 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Entirely?  Of course not.  Is race inextricably embedded in the problem?  You bet.

It's a problem that cops abuse their authority, lie, and beat up suspects.  Across the board.

It's an embedded, worse problem, that they do so disproportionately with black people.

You can be bad about one thing, and then manage to be even worse about that thing with a certain class of people.  Cops manage to pull that off.  Black people have a particularly acute reason to want policing to change.  But we all have that reason, even if to a lesser degree.

You realize he is arguing in bad faith don't you?

 

[Brisketexan 105273]

Just now, dcar00 said:

well fucking get out from behind the keyboard and get out there.. sounds to me like the Mayors of this country are a bunch of do-nothing criminal conduct enablers.

We are out there.  As are millions of others.  You have no idea what all we're doing on multiple fronts -- we have marched.  We have mobilized politically, working on both voter projects and for specific candidates.  My wife works with a downtown church that provides shelter and counseling to the victimized.  My wife has demonstrated in Lafayette Park with Reverend Barber and other faith leaders.  And the list goes on.  

And again, our problem is less the mayors -- who are doing what the loudest faction has demanded they do for decades -- but the huge chunk of our population who WANTS THEM TO DO AS THEY HAVE DONE.

You still don't fucking get it.  The problem is less the leaders doing what a group of people wants than it is the group of people who are demanding that they do those things, and have used that power to harm our society.

[Brisketexan 105273]

3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Well HPD hasn’t declared war on the people of Houston yet, so it’s already a pretty significant exception. Look at Chicago, LA, New York, Dallas, Louisville, Philly, etc. last night and then look at Houston.

I’m well aware of how much Art sucks, but he’s done a much better job than his peers. “Don’t terrorize peaceful citizens” is a low bar to clear so he doesn’t deserve praise for clearing it, it’s just illustrative of how awful police are in the rest of the country.

And yeah, this.  I have and have had plenty of problems with Art.  But on high-level things like this -- gun violence, how to police in the big picture (work WITH the protest movement instead of standing in "fuck you" defiance against them), there's a lot he does right.

Seriously, Houston is a heavily African American city.  It is large, diverse, and has lots of space and opportunity for mayhem.  Compare it with other cities like Philly, DC, NYC, LA....and it hasn't seen anywhere close to the violence and mayhem.  Because it has been handled well by the authorities who keep order.  Cracking skulls and picking fights to keep order is nowhere near as effective as engagement, and VERY measured and well-communicated response.

[Brisketexan 105273]

5 minutes ago, F250 said:

You realize he is arguing in bad faith don't you?

 

Yes.  But he should be exposed for doing so.

[jimmyjazz 46093]

31 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Art Acevedo is OK, as such things go. There's a reason why Nelson Linder respects him as much as the does. The issue Acevedo is that he's more of a direction setter than a discipline enforcer at the street level, which Nelson explains below. That was the argument for Brian Manley and the results of that so far are ... not great.

Yeah, Manley made a name for himself by being quite forthright with the media during the Austin bombings.  At the time, it was a breath of fresh air.  Now, he seems to be less than we hoped for.

He's kinda like the Andrew Cuomo of big city police chiefs.

[Grandioso 2592]

I remember thinking "fuck" when Houston hired Art. All I knew about him was that Shaggy/Surly hated him and constantly made that known.

He's been a good fit and is reasonably liked across the political spectrum. Maybe Austin and Art was just a bad marriage.