Minneapolis is Burning

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

9 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

No, Breast cancer doesn't effect only women, and they don't tell men that they must be allies, or that they are sexist.

 

Here, I'll correct that: some of you lot are sexist.

Breast cancer affects all genders.

 

I had to go back to DT and see this conversation in context to figure out what was the substance of it. Funny that in relation to black lives matter, cancer was brought up (by @Horn Dog I think?) in this context. If you haven't done so, read The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks by Rebecca Skloot. This award winning piece of nonfiction is a reminder that BLM isn't only about police brutality and police killing blacks or in the case of Armaud Abery, being more lenient with white on black acts until it is exposed. While much has improved in the fields of health and science since the life and death of Ms. Lacks, there is a LOT to be improved.

What  BLM and other organizations reveal is how the power structure marginalizes 'other' voices to the point that ANY cries for help or against injustices so threaten the power holders that the 1001 darts attacks start immediately. That doesn't include those that seem to think that once the Civil Rights Act passed, everything was hunky dory and if some African American student gets a scholarship to a state school then why can't their white kid? On that note, just for fun I looked up A&M and some of their stats. A&M began admitting minorities and women in the 1960s. I didn't see an exact date on their website, but I'll assume it was around 1964. So, for 88 years (from 1876 until then) they were all white, all male and given their original charge as an Ag and Mech military school not unusual. Their counterpart for African American students was Prairie View. So, for the last 56 years they have admitted women and minorities. That seems like a long time, but it isn't really. (For comparison, I am a first generation college graduate and one generation ago my parents had no indoor plumbing/running water. I cannot even imagine the obstacles for someone who was black and female born the same year I was in those circumstances.) Fast forward to their numbers today, and they have about 60,000 students (on their main campus) and rough percentages are 55% white, 22% Hispanic, 7 % Asian, and 3% African American (plus the 13% remainder of the demographic categories). That 3% is around 1900 students give or take. At a flagship university in a state with 28 million people. Are there other schools for students to attend? Yes there are. But anytime I stroll over to TexAgs and read around, the number of people griping anytime their president uses the word "diversity" is insane.

Shout out to @Huckleberry-I admire your succinctness. Thank you, wish I had that skill.

 

[cactusflinthead 27594]

And to any cops who made it this far down, is this really the world you want to live in? Aren’t you tired of the trauma? Aren’t you tired of the soul sickness inherent to the badge? Aren’t you tired of looking the other way when your partners break the law? Are you really willing to kill the next George Floyd, the next Breonna Taylor, the next Tamir Rice? How confident are you that your next use of force will be something you’re proud of? I’m writing this for you too: it’s wrong what our training did to us, it’s wrong that they hardened our hearts to our communities, and it’s wrong to pretend this is normal.

https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759

 

That's the first time I have read a cop calling for abolition. Might be the best thing I read all day.

Edited June 10, 2020 by cactusflinthead

[workswithseed 2036]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

Do you think black lives matter? Simple question. Do they matter?

If you answer yes, then you are an ally to the idea. If you answer no then I hate to break it to you, but you actually are a racist (with the only exception being the unlikely yet possible scenario where you don't think any lives matter). So please explain where the logic that if you don't believe black lives matter then you're a racist breaks down because I'd love to hear this.

I can't imagine living such a privileged life and yet feeling so put upon all the time when some group I'm not a member of tries to improve their lot in life. What a cowardly and mentally weak mindset.

Yes, I do. I don't have any problem with the spirit of reforming/getting rid of police. 

If that is the only policy that they want, I'd be fine with it.

 

[Bevo14 8274]

44 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

And to any cops who made it this far down, is this really the world you want to live in? Aren’t you tired of the trauma? Aren’t you tired of the soul sickness inherent to the badge? Aren’t you tired of looking the other way when your partners break the law? Are you really willing to kill the next George Floyd, the next Breonna Taylor, the next Tamir Rice? How confident are you that your next use of force will be something you’re proud of? I’m writing this for you too: it’s wrong what our training did to us, it’s wrong that they hardened our hearts to our communities, and it’s wrong to pretend this is normal.

https://medium.com/@OfcrACab/confessions-of-a-former-bastard-cop-bb14d17bc759

 

That's the first time I have read a cop calling for abolition. Might be the best thing I read all day.

Great read.

[Captainant 27463]

7 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Yes, I do. I don't have any problem with the spirit of reforming/getting rid of police. 

If that is the only policy that they want, I'd be fine with it.

Who is "they"? Black people, or people who think black lives matter? Because you're rhetorically distancing yourself from "them" in everything you're saying, and it sounds like you don't think there's other structural and institutional racism that needs reform

[Brisketexan 104622]

1 hour ago, mdmost said:

The cops are going to be dragged kicking and screaming into reform. Even the Senate Republicans lukewarm bill has provisions like more de-escalation training.

Realize that American police are a specific culture, and can reasonably be treated as a single entity for some purposes.  When you do that, then overlay the 7 stages of grief.

They are being told that the world that they deeply believe in, the way of life they have absorbed into their very being, cannot and will not continue.  It's a death -- a death of way of life.  And they have successfully defended all attacks against that way of life....until now.

 

 

Understand that for most PDs, right now we're still in the denial and/or anger phases.  Some bargaining has begun in a few cases.  But they're REALLY good at anger.  Expect them to flex in that stage for quite some time.

[burntorangebongos 10681]

SIAP. I went back a page and hope I didn't miss it. A big first step but only taken because they were forced to.

 

 

[workswithseed 2036]

8 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Who is "they"? Black people, or people who think black lives matter? Because you're rhetorically distancing yourself from "them" in everything you're saying, and it sounds like you don't think there's other structural and institutional racism that needs reform

BLM. Not all black people are in BLM.

[Captainant 27463]

1 minute ago, workswithseed said:

BLM. Not all black people are in BLM.

BLM isn't some national organization, it's an ideology. That black lives matter. 

So, do you think anything further than police reform is unreasonable in the furtherance of equality?

[honolulu horn 6157]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Do you think black lives matter? Simple question. Do they matter?

If you answer yes, then you are an ally to the idea. If you answer no then I hate to break it to you, but you actually are a racist (with the only exception being the unlikely yet possible scenario where you don't think any lives matter). So please explain where the logic that if you don't believe black lives matter then you're a racist breaks down because I'd love to hear this.

I can't imagine living such a privileged life and yet feeling so put upon all the time when some group I'm not a member of tries to improve their lot in life. What a cowardly and mentally weak mindset.

This is one of the best posts I've seen on this topic in a long time. 

Your last sentence reminds me of some of my extended relatives who characterize themselves as the real victims. These are all middle class, white, Christian, rural conservatives who have done nothing but benefit from the inequality in this country and have never once had any setbacks due to advances made by minority groups. They've literally lived their lives completely sheltered by this bubble in which people of color etc have had no meaningful impact on their lives whatsoever. And yet they are the loudest to scream about how victimized and put upon they are by movements such as BLM. It's so hard to understand. But then again, at least one has told me "Well I guess I'm just racist," which is probably the right answer. 

[cactusflinthead 27594]

 

[Bevo14 8274]

40 minutes ago, honolulu horn said:

This is one of the best posts I've seen on this topic in a long time. 

Your last sentence reminds me of some of my extended relatives who characterize themselves as the real victims. These are all middle class, white, Christian, rural conservatives who have done nothing but benefit from the inequality in this country and have never once had any setbacks due to advances made by minority groups. They've literally lived their lives completely sheltered by this bubble in which people of color etc have had no meaningful impact on their lives whatsoever. And yet they are the loudest to scream about how victimized and put upon they are by movements such as BLM. It's so hard to understand. But then again, at least one has told me "Well I guess I'm just racist," which is probably the right answer. 

Yeah their strange victim complex was on full display when Trump got elected. I was baffled.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Bevo14

[Guest Lobo]

The Blue Line flag/logo is literally blacked out American Flag.  It's a flag...that's been "Blacked Out."  Nobody saw that as an early warning sign?  

Was the 8th stripe being blue for the 8+ minutes it took to murder George Floyd too fine a point on it?  The meeting was, "We need a symbol that people can't have a problem with because it's one thing to be anti-shitty cop, but we have to make it so to protest us would look downright unAmerican!  I'm thinking either the Stars 'n Stripes that's been choked out or a Bald Eagle being tasered."  

Makes you realize how genius Thujone's painting really is.  

Edited June 10, 2020 by Lobo

[workswithseed 2036]

3 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

I can't imagine living such a privileged life and yet feeling so put upon all the time when some group I'm not a member of tries to improve their lot in life. What a cowardly and mentally weak mindset.

Is that group black people or just BLM?

[Chuckie Finster 22600]

2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

Is that group black people or just BLM?

What exactly do you think BLM is?  Do you think they have ID cards and weekly meetings where they plot against white people over lemonade and cookies?

[DigDug 1649]

17 hours ago, Pancho said:

 

This fucking guy “375 million interactions, overwhelmingly positive”

First off, that’s overwhelmingly positive to the police, You would have a vastly different record if you took into account the feedback of persons you interacted with.

Also, that’s like me saying, I’ve gone in to thousands and thousands of stores, and I’ve only robbed 3 of them.  
So why y’all got me labeled as a felon, taking away my right to vote or ability to find good work,  you put a target on my back to be harassed.

My store interactions have been OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE!!  It’s disgusting.

[Chad Fuck 17566]

1 hour ago, Chuckie Finster said:

What exactly do you think BLM is?  Do you think they have ID cards and weekly meetings where they plot against white people over lemonade and cookies?

 

[Brisketexan 104622]

9 minutes ago, DigDug said:

Also, that’s like me saying, I’ve gone in to thousands and thousands of stores, and I’ve only robbed 3 of them.  
So why y’all got me labeled as a felon, taking away my right to vote or ability to find good work,  you put a target on my back to be harassed.

My store interactions have been OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE!!  It’s disgusting.

100% this.

The whole "99% of our interactions are positive!" logical fallacy is utter bullshit.

Guy who has sex with 99 women, but rapes the shit out of 1: "don't call me a rapist!  99% of my sexual encounters are consensual!"

Guy who gets in 100 arguments a year, and 99 of them only involve yelling, but the 100th one, he stabs his opponent to death: "don't call me a murderer!  99% of my disagreements end peacefully!"

Guy who works with 100 women, but only gropes one of them in the elevator: "I'm not a sexual harasser!  99% of the women who work with me have no complaint!"

What the everloving fuck?  So, on top of being shitty at being human beings, cops are shitty at logic, too?  Seems par for the course.

[Thrawn 538]

 

 

[Celery Man 20886]

I'm not sure if I'm following the analogy correctly and I'm not trying to get into it (and now I'm speaking to the abstract person oppositional to racial justice) but the systemic racism that bludgeons black people in our country every day of their lives effects everyone. If you're just sooooo tired of talking about race, hey that must be really tough for you and everything but we will never shut the fuck up about it as long as it continues to be an issue, which will be the remainder of your natural life. If you'd really like it to stop being such an issue your best step is going to be to stop resisting.

[jimmyjazz 45558]

25 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

100% this.

The whole "99% of our interactions are positive!" logical fallacy is utter bullshit.

Guy who has sex with 99 women, but rapes the shit out of 1: "don't call me a rapist!  99% of my sexual encounters are consensual!"

Guy who gets in 100 arguments a year, and 99 of them only involve yelling, but the 100th one, he stabs his opponent to death: "don't call me a murderer!  99% of my disagreements end peacefully!"

Guy who works with 100 women, but only gropes one of them in the elevator: "I'm not a sexual harasser!  99% of the women who work with me have no complaint!"

What the everloving fuck?  So, on top of being shitty at being human beings, cops are shitty at logic, too?  Seems par for the course.

Guy who has 99 white friends and 1 token black friend but makes sure he never uses the word "nigger" around him . . . not a racist.  #blackfriend

[Nivek 16859]

This fucking guy “375 million interactions, overwhelmingly positive”
First off, that’s overwhelmingly positive to the police, You would have a vastly different record if you took into account the feedback of persons you interacted with.
Also, that’s like me saying, I’ve gone in to thousands and thousands of stores, and I’ve only robbed 3 of them.  
So why y’all got me labeled as a felon, taking away my right to vote or ability to find good work,  you put a target on my back to be harassed.
My store interactions have been OVERWHELMINGLY POSITIVE!!  It’s disgusting.

I believe the punchline was “you fuck one goat....”

[honolulu horn 6157]

18 minutes ago, Nivek said:

I believe the punchline was “you fuck one goat....”

 

[hobbes2702 12844]

'They bumped heads': Coworker says George Floyd and Derek Chauvin knew each other, had a history

 

SIAP. Thread moves fast 

[NWBuck 8547]

13 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

'They bumped heads': Coworker says George Floyd and Derek Chauvin knew each other, had a history

 

SIAP. Thread moves fast 

Interesting story, although it risks changing the narrative from "police brutality" to "this one guy had a beef with this other guy. There's no systemic issue/injustice/racism here!"

'Cause white people more frequently get to be individuals, while people of color are required to be representative of their whole group.

[washparkhorn 9935]

1 minute ago, NWBuck said:

Interesting story, although it risks changing the narrative from "police brutality" to "this one guy had a beef with this other guy. There's no systemic issue/injustice/racism here!"

'Cause white people more frequently get to be individuals, while people of color are required to be representative of their whole group.

Yep.

From a prosecution vantage point, it raises the issue of whether the killing/intent to cause serious bodily harm was premeditated - a much more serious offense. 

[Chad Fuck 17566]

 

 

This ought to help with social distancing.

[freyguy 4245]

9 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

Interesting story, although it risks changing the narrative from "police brutality" to "this one guy had a beef with this other guy. There's no systemic issue/injustice/racism here!"

'Cause white people more frequently get to be individuals, while people of color are required to be representative of their whole group.

Thank god the cops have had ample opportunity to show how much they support our Constitutional rights thru non-violence these past few weeks.  🙄

[washparkhorn 9935]

4 hours ago, Captainant said:

BLM isn't some national organization, it's an ideology. That black lives matter. 

 

BLM is a well-respected civil rights organization in the US, Canada and the UK. 

And yes - it is also a moral stand.

[Pescado_Rojo 19331]

2 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

 

 

This ought to help with social distancing.

The usual suspects on my social media feeds are melting down already. One guy changed his cover photo to a confederate flag and his profile picture to a white square. 

[Guest Lobo]

4 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

 

 

This ought to help with social distancing.

What the fuck else are those idiots supposed to talk about before "the races"?  Politics?  High finance?  

[hobbes2702 12844]

16 minutes ago, NWBuck said:

Interesting story, although it risks changing the narrative from "police brutality" to "this one guy had a beef with this other guy. There's no systemic issue/injustice/racism here!"

'Cause white people more frequently get to be individuals, while people of color are required to be representative of their whole group.

I don’t necessarily think it does that. He still committed his “revenge”, if this story is to be believed, while acting as a tool of the state and did so because he thought he was untouchable. The systemic problems with police aren’t just about racism, although that’s a large factor, but also about police thinking and acting above the law themselves. It’s why the whole thing needs to be redesigned 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

 

8 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

The usual suspects on my social media feeds are melting down already. One guy changed his cover photo to a confederate flag and his profile picture to a white square. 

Well the white square is appropriate, they did surrender.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

8 minutes ago, Lobo said:

What the fuck else are those idiots supposed to talk about before "the races"?  Politics?  High finance?  

Conspiracy theories ala Soros, 'Q' Anon, and whether candlesticks make a nice gift.

[Celery Man 20886]

Cops standing around and protecting another cop as the cop slowly murders a guy he doesn't like still scratches that "these cops need to stop doing crimes" itch.

[mdmost 42865]

18 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

 

 

This ought to help with social distancing.

 

[Guest Lobo]

Never a good look to be the runner-up in a war you named after yourself/your opponent.  

[Michael Knight 12898]

26 minutes ago, Chad Fuck said:

 

 

This ought to help with social distancing.

fuckin Nascar is ahead of the President of the United States on this. Whats next the NRA says black lives matter?

[BrickHorn 18194]

6 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Do you think black lives matter? Simple question. Do they matter?

I read that in this guy’s voice:

[Guest Lobo]

It's a simple question, if the White House bunked was made of spare ribs...would you eat it then?  

[YChang 3430]

Lol, imagine if police departments had Net promoter scores. 

[Horn Under a Bad Sign 20344]

KNOW THE SIGNS: HOW TO TELL IF YOUR GRANDPARENT HAS BECOME AN ANTIFA AGENT

For your birthday, she knits you an unwanted scarf. To be used as a balaclava?

She belongs to a decentralized group with no leadership structure that claims to be discussing a “book,” but no one ever reads the book and all they seem to do is drink wine.

Is always talking on the phone with an “aunt” you have never actually met in person. Aunt TIFA????

Always walking into rooms and claiming not to know why he walked into the room. Likely.

He “trips” over and breaks your child’s Lego police station when walking through the living room in the dark.

Total and bewildering lack of nostalgia for good old days.

Gathers with loose-knit, disorderly group of figures you have never met to play “mah-jongg,” governed by mysterious “rule cards” issued annually from a nebulous central authority.

Suddenly, for no reason, will appear or pretend to be asleep.

Insists on producing container of nuts whenever there is company. Why? Code of some kind?

Carries peppermints (chemical irritant?) in purse at all times.

Is taking Centrum Silver. But for what reason? Surely to build up strength for the coming confrontation.

Keeps forwarding you what appear on the surface to be emails of jokes someone has typed out from a Reader’s Digest; claims to think you would “enjoy”; must be some sort of recruitment or propaganda or hidden message.

Hired a clown for your child’s birthday — part of the Juggalo command structure?

Big tin of Christmas popcorn mysteriously replenishes itself. WHO IS HELPING?!

You gave her a Precious Moments figurine of a law enforcement officer, but she hasn’t displayed it.

Remembers things from the past in incredible, exhausting detail, but recent ones only sporadically? Cover of some kind.

She claims not to know how to use her phone, yet always appears upside-down on FaceTime, which should be impossible without hacking capabilities.

If he is to be believed, he spends hours playing bridge.

He is walking non-threateningly at a public protest.

 

 

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

Here's a good look for Georgia right after their elections. Thanks Justice Roberts you asshole of the country.

 

[Parliament 14138]

What the fuck else are those idiots supposed to talk about before "the races"?  Politics?  High finance?  

SEC fotbaww.

[Tuco 5076]

I don’t necessarily think it does that. He still committed his “revenge”, if this story is to be believed, while acting as a tool of the state and did so because he thought he was untouchable. The systemic problems with police aren’t just about racism, although that’s a large factor, but also about police thinking and acting above the law themselves. It’s why the whole thing needs to be redesigned 

Agreed. There are (at least) two main problems: racism and unchecked power. Of the two, the latter is able to be addressed more effectively. I don’t know how you prevent racists from becoming cops. That makes it essential to effectively monitor them and address abuses.

[TornACL 7676]

Dear police, 

If the airlines had a 99% success rate, and only 1% of flights resulted in passengers being injured or killed, the airline CEOs would be dragged by their short hairs to D.C. to testify before congress before being fired. 

And if their testimony before congress was to say that there are just a few bad apple pilots and mechanics, it wouldn't save them or their organizations.

An organization that is ok with the idea of "We only mess up sometimes!" and thinks that's even close to a reasonable excuse, in addition to resisting transparency or accountability at every turn, is an organization that needs to be wiped totally clean and rebuilt from the ground up. 

 

[MC Fresh Breath 4074]

2 hours ago, Chad Fuck said:

 

 

This ought to help with social distancing.

[Ghost of LL 15492]

21 hours ago, bolverk said:

Worth viewing in its entirety. He pretty much wraps up the whole enchilada.

 

Just for the benefit of the next page, the last three minutes are really very powerful (you can start at 31:45).  And those of us who appreciate political philosophy can get down here her (rather animated) discussion of the social contract.

I would also add that there are other important issues of political philosophy right now.  Like the issue of legitimacy.  We have a real crisis of legitimacy right now.  We have a president who refuses to lead.  He's incapable of it.  He has no moral authority.  He had only the shakiest of democratic legitimacy.  And he lost that 10 days ago when he violently cleared out peaceful protesters from Lafayette Square.

And now on top of that, the police have lost their legitimacy.  The police need to be seen as enforcing the law.  Now they're not by a majority of Americans.  They're seen as enforcing the privilege of the few.  And in doing so violently, they increasingly lose what legitimacy they had.  As the NYPD FOP rep said, they're now being viewed as animals and thugs.

And that dual crises of legitimacy is really not great for the survival of the Republic.  It echos what we've seen in so many revolutionary societies, from Ukraine to Egypt to Hong Kong.  

[staboner 4959]

30 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Just for the benefit of the next page, the last three minutes are really very powerful (you can start at 31:45).  And those of us who appreciate political philosophy can get down here her (rather animated) discussion of the social contract.

I would also add that there are other important issues of political philosophy right now.  Like the issue of legitimacy.  We have a real crisis of legitimacy right now.  We have a president who refuses to lead.  He's incapable of it.  He has no moral authority.  He had only the shakiest of democratic legitimacy.  And he lost that 10 days ago when he violently cleared out peaceful protesters from Lafayette Square.

And now on top of that, the police have lost their legitimacy.  The police need to be seen as enforcing the law.  Now they're not by a majority of Americans.  They're seen as enforcing the privilege of the few.  And in doing so violently, they increasingly lose what legitimacy they had.  As the NYPD FOP rep said, they're now being viewed as animals and thugs.

And that dual crises of legitimacy is really not great for the survival of the Republic.  It echos what we've seen in so many revolutionary societies, from Ukraine to Egypt to Hong Kong.  

^ well sure, but also needed. it just sadly the way humans and groups of humans have to enact change. We are simply not evolved enough at this time to act ahead of schedule 

maintaining the legitimacy of the police would certainly not bring about any reform.

the POTUS (and federal government in a general sense) has been on a slide for a while with executive overreach and a two party system that is just agreed upon mutually assured pillaging of society. One of the raiders pulled a gun on the other. was bound to happen and we don't have any strong political constructs left to stop it.

what keeps the republic alive is the heart and soul of the revolution. I think it will eventually be fine but will have to deal with the "somewheres". they are bound to the earth they were born on and will not budge forward in any way (countries, religion, racism, multi-cultural-ism, sexism, gay/trans rights, police brutality of minorities, you name it)

(I wish I could watch that video. Jon Oliver videos are blocked down unda for whatever reason). cheers friend

[EMAWesome 101]