Minneapolis is Burning

[Brisketexan 106617]

3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

An increasing number of Americans are learning that there are consequences associated with freedom, and specifically freedom of speech.  I for one am fucking overjoyed that shitbag 61 YO man now has to go scramble for employment as what will likely be "Walmart greeter" or "Uber driver". 

It's the very definition of white privilege.  Dude thinks he can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and his experience has been 61 long years in the making.  Guess what, asshole.  You were wrong.  It just took awhile for things to catch up.

[Hookah Horns 3089]

3 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I am curious to listen to this, and will try to do so.  I have my doubts about how the numbers are being used, because I've seen the same numbers most of y'all have, and the same problems with how they are argued.  Still, I'll check it out.

But I will suggest that the problem is not just police VIOLENCE.  It's police treatment across the board.  It's the fact that a black guy, of any socioeconomic class, is more likely to be detained (and cuffed) than a white man in similar circumstances.  That guy is more likely to be questioned by cops while he's waiting to meet a friend in a nice hotel lobby, etc.  To have a cop come to the car door with his hand on his gun.  Look at the videos of how cops confront a white man open carrying vs. a black man.  It's a load of biases and prejudices, some intentional, some unconscious.  Facing and confronting that reality, instead of steadfastly denying it as we have been, is THE most essential step.  We really can't accomplish much unless/until we do that.

Yeah, IMO the biggest problem with the argument is that the data on black arrests and convictions is used to support the conclusion that blacks commit crimes at such a higher rate than other races. But we know that racism is baked into those numbers as well. The question is to what degree, which I'm not sure can be meaningfully quantified. And then I wonder if it is as much about poverty as it is race. 

Even so, assuming the data is legit, I think it's important to distinguish the racial disparity in police violence from a more general disparity in how the races are policed. I think we should all be concerned about police excessive violence against all races, as opposed to viewing this problem as a racial one. 

[Mdhorn 6153]

15 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

An increasing number of Americans are learning that there are consequences associated with freedom, and specifically freedom of speech.  I for one am fucking overjoyed that shitbag 61 YO man now has to go scramble for employment as what will likely be "Walmart greeter" or "Uber driver". 

It's the very definition of white privilege.  Dude thinks he can do whatever he wants, whenever he wants, and his experience has been 61 long years in the making.  Guess what, asshole.  You were wrong.  It just took awhile for things to catch up.

61 year old man doesn’t understand that 95 percentile support by republicans doesn’t translate to mean 95 percentile of the population.  He probably thought he was in the majority which is why his actions would be justified. As they say, he just got woke! 

[Hookah Horns 3089]

1 hour ago, Bama Chick said:

Damn. That was quick!

 

Glorious.

I wonder if these dumbasses fail to even consider the ubiquity of cameras/social media and the threat this behavior poses to their livelihoods, or rather they do consider it but the compulsion to act this way overrides any concern. 

[Brisketexan 106617]

5 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

Yeah, IMO the biggest problem with the argument is that the data on black arrests and convictions is used to support the conclusion that blacks commit crimes at such a higher rate than other races. But we know that racism is baked into those numbers as well. The question is to what degree, which I'm not sure can be meaningfully quantified. And then I wonder if it is as much about poverty as it is race. 

Even so, assuming the data is legit, I think it's important to distinguish the racial disparity in police violence from a more general disparity in how the races are policed. I think we should all be concerned about police excessive violence against all races, as opposed to viewing this problem as a racial one. 

Yep.  And again, I'm not saying it's part of some sinister plot.  It's just the way things are, and have become systemic.  For example, let's think about marijuana arrests.

The cops bust a Saturday night party at I-35 and Rundberg, attendees are black.  They bust a bunch of dudes with weed because, hey, it's a party.  So, we suddenly have 10 black males with a marijuana arrest, and a lot of wagging fingers from the more well-off elements of society saying "see, those guys shouldn't do crimes."

That same exact Saturday night, at apartments, houses, private dorms, etc. in West Campus, relatively affluent UT students are also having parties...and a similar percentage of attendees is in possession.  The cops don't even get called to those parties.  And if they do, they're more inclined to cut an attendee with weed a break because, well, he looks like a good kid.  Turn over what you got and I'll destroy it -- now go home.

The same baseline -- percentage of people in possession of marijuana.  Two dramatically different outcomes in terms of "criminal statistics," driven by multiple forks in the road all along the way.

Black dudes don't smoke more weed than mostly white UT students.  They just pay a heavier price for doing so.

[jimmyjazz 46972]

4 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

Glorious.

I wonder if these dumbasses fail to even consider the ubiquity of cameras/social media and the threat this behavior poses to their livelihoods, or rather they do consider it but the compulsion to act this way overrides any concern. 

Clearly, they don't.  Over and over we are seeing incredibly ill-advised behavior playing out in front of us, and it's not as if nobody can see the cameras, as if a few n'er do wells were wearing secret X-ray Spex sunglasses.  I mean, those people have their fucking cell phones out and they are taking video of you doing whatever you're doing.  It's unreal.

It makes parenting easier, at least as a practical matter.  "Hey, you COULD be a dipshit and do something stupid, but guess what?  EVERYTHING is on video now.  Think about that."

[Mdhorn 6153]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

Clearly, they don't.  Over and over we are seeing incredibly ill-advised behavior playing out in front of us, and it's not as if nobody can see the cameras, as if a few n'er do wells were wearing secret X-ray Spex sunglasses.  I mean, those people have their fucking cell phones out and they are taking video of you doing whatever you're doing.  It's unreal.

It makes parenting easier, at least as a practical matter.  "Hey, you COULD be a dipshit and do something stupid, but guess what?  EVERYTHING is on video now.  Think about that."

That's also how you know they're old.  They're used to everything being their word vs the accused.

[Hookah Horns 3089]

5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yep.  And again, I'm not saying it's part of some sinister plot.  It's just the way things are, and have become systemic.  For example, let's think about marijuana arrests.

The cops bust a Saturday night party at I-35 and Rundberg, attendees are black.  They bust a bunch of dudes with weed because, hey, it's a party.  So, we suddenly have 10 black males with a marijuana arrest, and a lot of wagging fingers from the more well-off elements of society saying "see, those guys shouldn't do crimes."

That same exact Saturday night, at apartments, houses, private dorms, etc. in West Campus, relatively affluent UT students are also having parties...and a similar percentage of attendees is in possession.  The cops don't even get called to those parties.  And if they do, they're more inclined to cut an attendee with weed a break because, well, he looks like a good kid.  Turn over what you got and I'll destroy it -- now go home.

The same baseline -- percentage of people in possession of marijuana.  Two dramatically different outcomes in terms of "criminal statistics," driven by multiple forks in the road all along the way.

Black dudes don't smoke more weed than mostly white UT students.  They just pay a heavier price for doing so.

No doubt. The question I have is how big is the disparity when it comes to violent crimes? I would assume that the disparity between actual crimes committed by race and arrests is lower for those than in your example. Although I'm sure there still is one. 

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13618]

10 minutes ago, Mdhorn said:

61 year old man doesn’t understand that 95 percentile support by republicans doesn’t translate to mean 95 percentile of the population.  He probably thought he was in the majority which is why his actions would be justified. As they say, he just got woke! 

It's almost as if people with 8 years of suppressed resentment felt they could relish the opportunity to support a violence-inciting candidate for president who lost the popular vote had a greenlight to continue after he won in a consequence-free environment.

[Brisketexan 106617]

8 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

No doubt. The question I have is how big is the disparity when it comes to violent crimes? I would assume that the disparity between actual crimes committed by race and arrests is lower for those than in your example. Although I'm sure there still is one. 

Well, and there is where we will get into the statistical morass that will inevitably happen when we try to correlate crime stats with race alone.

One factor that can skew those stats is frequency and nature of police interactions.  If you are stopped by the police twice as often, and the police are half as likely to let you off the hook for a minor offense, that will skew the shit out of stats.

Another factor is correlation between criminality and poverty.  African American poverty rate is around 21%, white poverty rate is around 8% -- so, a given black person is 2.5X more likely to be poor than a given white person.  And we know that crime does have a material correlation with poverty.

In short, it's complex.  So it seems likely that black criminal stats are driven in part by 1) a higher relative poverty rate, 2) more likely to be stopped by police, and 3) less likely to be cut a break by the cops and the courts (he's a good kid with a bright future (white kid busted in West Campus) vs. he's a hood rat (black kid busted on Rundberg)), among other factors.

And yeah, that spots some other things -- like, addressing the poverty rate and unemployment can help significantly as well.  Complex problems, complex solutions, but they aren't an either or.  We should work so that an average black kid has an opportunity to get a good education and move up, AND we should work to make sure that future isn't fucked up because the cops are twice as likely to hassle him, or to ruin his life with a drug bust because he was at a party smoking it up on a Saturday night, just like his white counterparts across the interstate who faced little to no risk of criminal sanction.  Both those things matter.

[mdmost 43849]

Just because I can't post it on the Gundy thread without people whining:

Wearing a t-shirt that pisses off my Heisman hopeful running back and possibly costing me my job, just to own the libs. 

[Ted Lange 16353]

*OAN the libs

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13618]

16 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

 

That same exact Saturday night, at apartments, houses, private dorms, etc. in West Campus, relatively affluent UT students are also having parties...and a similar percentage of attendees is in possession.  The cops don't even get called to those parties.  And if they do, they're more inclined to cut an attendee with weed a break because, well, he looks like a good kid.  Turn over what you got and I'll destroy it -- now go home.

 

When I lived at the house across from Trudy's we had a party and during Myra Manes set someone next to me barked out "EVERYONE OUT!!!" 

Me *slowly turning, as stoners are wont to do*- "Wuddaya meean oooohh you're a cop. In my house. And there's lots of you."

But that was pretty much it, and even then people were still just milling around.

Then we did bong hits with the cops*

 

 

* this part not true

[Blotto 23974]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, and there is where we will get into the statistical morass that will inevitably happen when we try to correlate crime stats with race alone.

One factor that can skew those stats is frequency and nature of police interactions.  If you are stopped by the police twice as often, and the police are half as likely to let you off the hook for a minor offense, that will skew the shit out of stats.

Another factor is correlation between criminality and poverty.  African American poverty rate is around 21%, white poverty rate is around 8% -- so, a given black person is 2.5X more likely to be poor than a given white person.  And we know that crime does have a material correlation with poverty.

In short, it's complex.  So it seems likely that black criminal stats are driven in part by 1) a higher relative poverty rate, 2) more likely to be stopped by police, and 3) less likely to be cut a break by the cops and the courts (he's a good kid with a bright future (white kid busted in West Campus) vs. he's a hood rat (black kid busted on Rundberg)), among other factors.

And yeah, that spots some other things -- like, addressing the poverty rate and unemployment can help significantly as well.  Complex problems, complex solutions, but they aren't an either or.  We should work so that an average black kid has an opportunity to get a good education and move up, AND we should work to make sure that future isn't fucked up because the cops are twice as likely to hassle him, or to ruin his life with a drug bust because he was at a party smoking it up on a Saturday night, just like his white counterparts across the interstate who faced little to no risk of criminal sanction.  Both those things matter.

The other factor that I'm convinced needs to be addressed is single parent families, and in particular kids being raised by single mothers. Yeah, yeah....I know there are inspiring stories of single moms that raise their kids straight and narrow, but without a dad around, a lot of kids simply don't get the discipline they need. I think black families are about twice as likely to be single parent homes. All I know is I had a f'n healthy amount of respect/fear regarding my dad's reaction whenever I fucked up. 

And I absolutely acknowledge that  systemic racism with regards to crime enforcement, war on drugs, etc....will effect the number of dads around to look after their kids, or able to properly support kids with a drug rap on their record.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Blotto

[mchookem 16728]

2 hours ago, BrazilHorn said:

 

The lady in central park who tried to SWAT the black birdwatcher, the douchebag in Maryland who attacked the teens handing out fliers with his bike and this fucktard all 100% deserve what is coming to them in terms of job loss, public shaming etc.

don't forget the chainsaw-wielding mexican! he's my favorite so far lol

[JimmyJames 12271]

2 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Well, and there is where we will get into the statistical morass that will inevitably happen when we try to correlate crime stats with race alone.

One factor that can skew those stats is frequency and nature of police interactions.  If you are stopped by the police twice as often, and the police are half as likely to let you off the hook for a minor offense, that will skew the shit out of stats.

Another factor is correlation between criminality and poverty.  African American poverty rate is around 21%, white poverty rate is around 8% -- so, a given black person is 2.5X more likely to be poor than a given white person.  And we know that crime does have a material correlation with poverty.

In short, it's complex.  So it seems likely that black criminal stats are driven in part by 1) a higher relative poverty rate, 2) more likely to be stopped by police, and 3) less likely to be cut a break by the cops and the courts (he's a good kid with a bright future (white kid busted in West Campus) vs. he's a hood rat (black kid busted on Rundberg)), among other factors.

And yeah, that spots some other things -- like, addressing the poverty rate and unemployment can help significantly as well.  Complex problems, complex solutions, but they aren't an either or.  We should work so that an average black kid has an opportunity to get a good education and move up, AND we should work to make sure that future isn't fucked up because the cops are twice as likely to hassle him, or to ruin his life with a drug bust because he was at a party smoking it up on a Saturday night, just like his white counterparts across the interstate who faced little to no risk of criminal sanction.  Both those things matter.

Dave Chappelle’s stand up from back in the late 90s early 2000s where he talks about riding around with his white friend “Chip” and getting stopped by the cops perfectly illustrates this point. Guy is a comedic genius.

”I’m sorry officer. I..didn’t realize I couldn’t do that.”

Edited June 16, 2020 by JimmyJames

[JimmyJames 12271]

“Dave, I’m gonna race him.”

Which I knew was a bad idea. And I was gonna say so, but I was high. So what came out instead was, “yeah sometimes ya gotta race” puff

Edited June 16, 2020 by JimmyJames

[JimmyJames 12271]

“Dave. Dave!! I’ll handle this. For God’s sake close up your butt cheeks!”

[JimmyJames 12271]

 

[Gatorubet 30629]

3 hours ago, Hookah Horns said:

In this podcast on race and police use of force, Sam Harris says a lot of things I've been thinking lately. It looks at the statistics on police violence by race and argues that while we clearly have a police use of force problem, it's not clear that we have an epidemic of racist white cop on black man violence. 

I'm sharing because I think it's a compelling viewpoint that should be debated. 

I'd be interested in reading any thoughtful counterarguments from those of you who contend the opposite. 

 

Cops as a whole are out-of-control pieces of shit who far too often commit excessive force on a routine basis - and then lie and cover it up in the Blue Wall of silence.  

I am not as concerned that it happens to any particular race, as that it happens all the damn time.    You seem to be fixated on not letting blacks have things, even if one of those things is more excessive force used against them.    Just say All Lives Matter and get it over with.    

 

 

[cactusflinthead 27626]

 

[FORTY NINE TO ZERO 2649]

21 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

SIAP but HOLY CRAP this is disturbing. Cops get called on a homeless guy at a bus stop.  This is a straight up execution. The police don't even bother to turn off their cameras.  NSFW!
 

 

Wait. Did just happen?  How is it not all Over national news 

[EuroHorn 3287]

2 minutes ago, Xian said:

Wait. Did just happen?  How is it not all Over national news 

https://www.abqjournal.com/1380152/apd-man-shot-by-officers-in-august-was-armed-with-bb-gun.html

[Hookah Horns 3089]

24 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

 

Cops as a whole are out-of-control pieces of shit who far too often commit excessive force on a routine basis - and then lie and cover it up in the Blue Wall of silence.  

I am not as concerned that it happens to any particular race, as that it happens all the damn time.    You seem to be fixated on not letting blacks have things, even if one of those things is more excessive force used against them.    Just say All Lives Matter and get it over with.    

 

 

You seem to be a dumbass. 

[sasquatch69 622]

Good on BSA for doing this - it's needed right now. As a Scout dad, this pleases me. 

https://scoutingwire.org/bsas-commitment-to-act-against-racial-injustice/#

The full thing is worth reading, but here's the significant part:

There is no place for racism – not in Scouting and not in our communities. Racism will not be tolerated.

We condemn the murders of George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor and all those who are not named but are equally important. We hear the anguish, feel the heartbreak, and join the country’s resolve to do better.

The Boy Scouts of America stands with Black families and the Black community because we believe that Black Lives Matter. This is not a political issue; it is a human rights issue and one we all have a duty to address. That is why, as an organization, we commit to:

• Introducing a specific diversity and inclusion merit badge that will be required for the rank of Eagle Scout. It will build on components within existing merit badges, including the American Cultures and Citizenship in the Community merit badges, which require Scouts to learn about and engage with other groups and cultures to increase understanding and spur positive action.
• Reviewing every element of our programs to ensure diversity and inclusion are engrained at every level for participants and volunteers by applying a standard that promotes racial equality and denounces racism, discrimination, inequality and injustice.
• Requiring diversity and inclusion training for all BSA employees starting July 1 and taking immediate action toward introducing a version for volunteers in the coming months.
• Conducting a review of property names, events and insignia, in partnership with local councils, to build on and enhance the organization’s nearly 30-year ban on use of the Confederate flag and to ensure that symbols of oppression are not in use today or in the future.

[BigHorn'13 3480]

1 hour ago, JimmyJames said:

 

Lol brought me back. Favorite part of the standup is the baby weed dealer. 

 

[Gatorubet 30629]

37 minutes ago, Hookah Horns said:

You seem to be a dumbass. 

Go point out that blacks are really not more at risk on the Aggy board.  Use stats and pie charts. Good stuff.

[JimmyJames 12271]

10 minutes ago, BigHorn'13 said:

Lol brought me back. Favorite part of the standup is the baby weed dealer. 

 

Dave at his peak. Greatest comedian of all time.

[Biff Tannen 46061]

32 minutes ago, sasquatch69 said:

Good on BSA for doing this - it's needed right now. As a Scout dad, this pleases me. 

https://scoutingwire.org/bsas-commitment-to-act-against-racial-injustice/#

The full thing is worth reading, but here's the significant part:

 

 

I just read a chapter in my current book about the founding of BSA so this hits close to home. 

[HenryJames 67115]

13 hours ago, kevwun said:

The Albuquerque PD has a terrible reputation with use of force.  They are one of the worst police departments in the country.

 

[Longhorn_Fan68 34079]

4 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Dave at his peak. Greatest comedian of all time.

slow down, now. great, yes. greatest? that's a topic for another thread.

[Longhorn_Fan68 34079]

 

[honolulu horn 6203]

4 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Clearly, they don't.  Over and over we are seeing incredibly ill-advised behavior playing out in front of us, and it's not as if nobody can see the cameras, as if a few n'er do wells were wearing secret X-ray Spex sunglasses.  I mean, those people have their fucking cell phones out and they are taking video of you doing whatever you're doing.  It's unreal.

It makes parenting easier, at least as a practical matter.  "Hey, you COULD be a dipshit and do something stupid, but guess what?  EVERYTHING is on video now.  Think about that."

EXACTLY the conversation I just had with my kid. 

[BigHorn'13 3480]

26 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

Fucking a. And then to finish watching that only to see 3 new posts. One of which

19 minutes ago, Longhorn_Fan68 said:

 

 

[Mdhorn 6153]

4 hours ago, Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand said:

When I lived at the house across from Trudy's we had a party and during Myra Manes set someone next to me barked out "EVERYONE OUT!!!" 

Me *slowly turning, as stoners are wont to do*- "Wuddaya meean oooohh you're a cop. In my house. And there's lots of you."

But that was pretty much it, and even then people were still just milling around.

Then we did bong hits with the cops*

 

 

* this part not true

Cops in Austin didn't seem too bad--Eeyor's Birthday Party is an annual event where police seem to just want to keep the peace.  I know faculty, teachers, House aides, and lawyers that smoke but they do it at their homes.  Before legalization in DC, I would see the brothers getting high on the metro, walking downtown two blocks from the White House, with their kids while shooting ball, at the park on picnics, whatever.  Same thing in Maryland where it's not legal yet.  Thing is, it's everywhere.  There are rich people or their kids shooting up, using blow or dusting in clubs getting off when they get busted.  Just legalize marijuana everywhere already.  It's not worth a long sentence and continues to be a huge fiscal farce.

Edited June 16, 2020 by Mdhorn

[wildcat09 29556]

There was a lynching in fucking Houston. I’d hoped we might avoid the far right vigilante bullshit, considering how diverse Houston is, but I guess it’s time to recreate Sherman’s march through all the aggy suburbs.

[Brisketexan 106617]

There was a lynching in fucking Houston. I’d hoped we might avoid the far right vigilante bullshit, considering how diverse Houston is, but I guess it’s time to recreate Sherman’s march through all the aggy suburbs.

Dude, slow your roll. The facts thus far point strongly to suicide. Seriously, that’s inflammatory shit that isn’t warranted.

[Celery Man 21076]

 

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

2 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

There was a lynching in fucking Houston. I’d hoped we might avoid the far right vigilante bullshit, considering how diverse Houston is, but I guess it’s time to recreate Sherman’s march through all the aggy suburbs.

Nothing to see here. Ruled a suicide just like the other two.

 

 

Man a bunch of people hanging themselves publicly now days. Weird huh?

[Mdhorn 6153]

1 hour ago, sasquatch69 said:

Good on BSA for doing this - it's needed right now. As a Scout dad, this pleases me. 

https://scoutingwire.org/bsas-commitment-to-act-against-racial-injustice/#

The full thing is worth reading, but here's the significant part:

 

 

Deep State Boy Scouts.  

[Grade of D as in David 13255]

2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Dude, slow your roll. The facts thus far point strongly to suicide. Seriously, that’s inflammatory shit that isn’t warranted.

Lots of public suicides by hanging lately. 

I guess it's slightly more believable than the multiple self inflicted gunshot wound variety.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

It’s like all the Russians falling out of windows and dying of natural causes. 

Edited June 16, 2020 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Guest Lobo]

I dunno,  NM

Edited June 16, 2020 by Lobo

[Bama Chick 28596]

“White blessings”???

[Hookah Horns 3089]

1 hour ago, Gatorubet said:

Go point out that blacks are really not more at risk on the Aggy board.  Use stats and pie charts. Good stuff.

I'm sorry that someone trying to discuss the matter hurt your woke little pussy. 

[Brisketexan 106617]

Lots of public suicides by hanging lately. 
I guess it's slightly more believable than the multiple self inflicted gunshot wound variety.

They’re getting reported and the reports are getting picked up because of the scrutiny in the current climate. Which I’m glad of...but again, slow your roll - suicide actually is incredibly common (which is its own sad damned issue), including public suicide by hanging. It really isn’t that unusual.

[Bama Chick 28596]

And they KNOW they’re being recorded!

[Al Bundy's Napoleon Hand 13618]

12 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

“White blessings”???

 

 

 

Jesus Goddamn Christ

[Brisketexan 106617]

And they KNOW they’re being recorded!

Some of those that work forces.....

[Bama Chick 28596]

Some of those that work forces.....

Are getting poisoned.