I'm tired.

[Js1 85,495]

2 hours ago, troph said:

[mention]Wulaw Horn [/mention]

 

Think what you want that’s fine - I’m not asking you to change your mind. but there’s not a single objective basis to call Obama “an incredibly shitty president” especially on a thread where a black man expresses how tired he is from the effects of relentless racism. Pancho may not even like the guy, but there is no question Obama was stymied by racism and the stonewalling of white nationalist Republicans and that Trump is their response to him. Those people think Obama was an incredibly shitty president. Maybe you prefer lower taxes and less regulation, or whatever, okay. But that’s not incredibly shitty that’s just a difference in ideology. Trump is incredibly shitty, and Obama is and was nothing like Trump.

That dude was a legitimately (not Faux News ginned up nothing burgers) scandal-free president who was a devoted family man and worked his way to where he was in a country that had never elected a non-white POTUS.  Can not believe anyone With even 2 working brain cells anyone would think of him as “shitty” compared to his predecessor (dynastic borderline war criminal) and his successor (silver spoon narcissist with more scandals than a bad network drama) 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Js1

[Iceman 2,725]

I am tired...

 

of people being inclined to tell me my opinion on Presidents in a non-CR thread,

a great thread, but wholly fok.  What a fucking beating 24/7.  Never stops.

[Biff Tannen 45,702]

1 hour ago, Iceman said:

I am tired...

 

of people being inclined to tell me my opinion on Presidents in a non-CR thread,

a great thread, but wholly fok.  What a fucking beating 24/7.  Never stops.

Awful horrible bad shit is happening in the USA right now, if you are afraid of your fucking feelings getting hurt this isn't the website for you.

[Js1 85,495]

16 minutes ago, Iceman said:

I am tired...

 

of people being inclined to tell me my opinion on Presidents in a non-CR thread,

a great thread, but wholly fok.  What a fucking beating 24/7.  Never stops.

I am tired too. Of how quickly you make EVERYTHING about you.  You are not oppressed, shut the fuck up already.  

[Iceman 2,725]

2 minutes ago, Js1 said:

I am tired too. Of how quickly you make EVERYTHING about you.  You are not oppressed, shut the fuck up already.  

Neither are you   Go be quiet.   LOlz.

[Iceman 2,725]

5 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Awful horrible bad shit is happening in the USA right now, if you are afraid of your fucking feelings getting hurt this isn't the website for you.

Nope.

The thread is very, very relevant.   But same ole people wanna debate presidential legacies.

 

Really?

[Biff Tannen 45,702]

1 hour ago, Iceman said:

Nope.

The thread is very, very relevant.   But same ole people wanna debate presidential legacies.

 

Really?

[Nicole44 22,072]

In the absence of a true response (real change) hopelessness and despair creeps in. I can only hope to try and make a difference while I’m here. For positive change. All people should feel as though they are loved and equal. From the jump. To feel like they belong and have every right to pursue their dreams. It really doesn’t take much to make someone smile or feel special even for a moment. It’s fucking horrendous that people have racism, classism and sexism so built in they are blind to it. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,146]

4 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

 

What is the path forward in terms of what the white majority can do?  I mean, I vote, and I try to vote for those I believe to be "good people", but who knows what's in someone's heart?  

Democratic governor, democratic mayor, black police chief. 

Ferguson and Baltimore and 1,000 others happened under the Obama administration. 

Note- I’m not blaming democrats for any of this, nor am I blaming Obama for what happened under his admin when stuff like this happened. 

Note 2- I saw a couple of tweets from our POTUS that said something like you loot and we shoot and I was disgusted by it, and incredibly saddened that he represents our country for a whole host of reasons like I normally am when he opens his mouth 

I say all this to say this- it’s clearly not a problem that is solved with change in power at the ballot box that I believe we will see in November. That won’t change this. 

Like you, I’d love to know how I can be part of some sort of solution. I can’t imagine it’s in politicians. I can’t imagine it’s in protests (peaceful or violent). The least I can do is try to teach my kids not to hate anyone for any reason and try to model that in my own life, but if there’s more that can be done I’d love to hear it. 

[jimmyjazz 46,057]

1 minute ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Like you, I’d love to know how I can be part of some sort of solution. I can’t imagine it’s in politicians. I can’t imagine it’s in protests (peaceful or violent). The least I can do is try to teach my kids not to hate anyone for any reason and try to model that in my own life, but if there’s more that can be done I’d love to hear it. 

That's not a sufficient strategy.  I'm not saying you aren't sincere, but yeah, it's literally the LEAST you can do.  Most of us, presumably including you, have benefited from having kids who are far more openhearted than a large swath of modern day adults.  I hope it sticks.  

What I want to know is what the minority demographics would like me to do?  How can I be of any help?  I've been told to speak up, to keep quiet, to listen, to march, to stay away, all kinds of mixed messages.  I honestly don't know what is the most effective way for that portion of white America that desperately wants to effect positive change to do so.

I'll tell you this, whatever we've been doing, it's not working so well.  That much I do know.

[Johnny Sack 8,397]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

That's not a sufficient strategy.  I'm not saying you aren't sincere, but yeah, it's literally the LEAST you can do.  Most of us, presumably including you, have benefited from having kids who are far more openhearted than a large swath of modern day adults.  I hope it sticks.  

What I want to know is what the minority demographics would like me to do?  How can I be of any help?  I've been told to speak up, to keep quiet, to listen, to march, to stay away, all kinds of mixed messages.  I honestly don't know what is the most effective way for that portion of white America that desperately wants to effect positive change to do so.

I'll tell you this, whatever we've been doing, it's not working so well.  That much I do know.

Mentor kids without a father in their lives.  It’s an epidemic.  And isn’t limited to a certain race.  That’s what you can do.  There is an unlimited supply.  A couple hours a week.  Some texts and phone calls.  Can make a huge difference. 
 

My dad died when I was young.  I was lucky to have mentors advise me.  Young people need good adult role models.  They need advice.  They need someone who cares.  
 

Most people are slacktivists who just post pandering bullshit on social media to make themselves look better.  
 

Be a Big Brother.  They’ll run an extensive background check but it’s otherwise painless.  

[Wulaw Horn 19,146]

2 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

That's not a sufficient strategy.  I'm not saying you aren't sincere, but yeah, it's literally the LEAST you can do.  Most of us, presumably including you, have benefited from having kids who are far more openhearted than a large swath of modern day adults.  I hope it sticks.  

What I want to know is what the minority demographics would like me to do?  How can I be of any help?  I've been told to speak up, to keep quiet, to listen, to march, to stay away, all kinds of mixed messages.  I honestly don't know what is the most effective way for that portion of white America that desperately wants to effect positive change to do so.

I'll tell you this, whatever we've been doing, it's not working so well.  That much I do know.

Yeah man, I’m in complete agreement with what you are saying  

Thats literally why I said the least I can do- teaching kids not to hate is basic humanity 101- not something I’m looking for a pat on the back for.  If everyone did it then then the problem would be solved in one generation, but everyone isn’t going to do it, so yeah, what would you (collective you not literally Jimmy Jazz) have me do?

[jimmyjazz 46,057]

Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

Yeah man, I’m in complete agreement with what you are saying  

Thats literally why I said the least I can do- teaching kids not to hate is basic humanity 101- not something I’m looking for a pat on the back for.  If everyone did it then then the problem would be solved in one generation, but everyone isn’t going to do it, so yeah, what would you (collective you not literally Jimmy Jazz) have me do?

That's the big question.  I'm actively trying to both ask it in multiple forums and then listen to opinions put forth by minority Americans.  I don't expect unanimity, but I bet there's a consensus.  

[Wulaw Horn 19,146]

1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

That's the big question.  I'm actively trying to both ask it in multiple forums and then listen to opinions put forth by minority Americans.  I don't expect unanimity, but I bet there's a consensus.  

When you find out let me know. I’m not going to commit myself to doing something someone else told me without seeing what it is, but if I think whatever solution you get has any chance at efficacy I’m certainly down to try it. 

[Serak The Preparer 3,431]

2 hours ago, Iceman said:

Nope.

The thread is very, very relevant.   But same ole people wanna debate presidential legacies.

 

Really?

Oh fuck off you disingenuous ass. You seemed to have no problem with Wulaw calling Obama an incredibly shitty president, making a post afterwords with no comment.

But people respond and you get the fucking vapors. You fool nobody.

[Spankytoes 1,743]

I’d give you an honest answer, but I don’t think you would like it. It encroaches CR territory. 

So I will simply say I’m sorry that this has personally affected you as a black man. It is maddening for the entire country for you to feel unsafe and unequal.

[Iceman 2,725]

1 hour ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Oh fuck off you disingenuous ass. You seemed to have no problem with Wulaw calling Obama an incredibly shitty president, making a post afterwords with no comment.

But people respond and you get the fucking vapors. You fool nobody.

I didn't differentiate because i said 'Presidents'   You can read can't you?  It applied to the conversation in general.

 

 

Go fuck yourself though.   peace love and happiness crybaby...

[Serak The Preparer 3,431]

3 minutes ago, Iceman said:

I didn't differentiate because i said 'Presidents'   You can read can't you?  It applied to the conversation in general.

 

 

Go fuck yourself though.   peace love and happiness crybaby...

No, you did differentiate in your response. Wulaw called Omaba a shitty president. You replied (in this thread) without comment. Other posters said he was not shitty, and that perhaps other presidents were shitty. That is when you stepped in with your usual butthurt and crying.

 

So why is it you had no problem with the first, provocative statement? Crybaby indeed.

[Wulaw Horn 19,146]

23 minutes ago, Serak The Preparer said:

No, you did differentiate in your response. Wulaw called Omaba a shitty president. You replied (in this thread) without comment. Other posters said he was not shitty, and that perhaps other presidents were shitty. That is when you stepped in with your usual butthurt and crying.

 

So why is it you had no problem with the first, provocative statement? Crybaby indeed.

My statement wasn’t meant to be provocative. If you read it again I was agreeing with brisket, who said essentially that people lost their minds about Obama because of racism and it melted their minds. 

I was agreeing with him!  I even repped his post!  

My point in bringing in the I thought Obama was a shitty president was saying - yeah- I agree with you about what is driving this right now- even though you and I don’t agree politically!  

It was actually topical to the thread and response. And I was saying my disagreement with Obama was substantive and policy based and I didn’t understand/was repulsed by the thought, that the blow back against him was based upon his race and not his actual actions in office- which should absolutely be fair game for criticism, even harsh criticism, in a fair and open minded, racially tolerant society. In fact, that’s when we will know we’ve reached where we want to be- when you can criticize someone based upon words and actions and it has nothing to do with what their identity is. 

We aren’t anywhere close to there and that makes me sad. I don’t know how we get there. I don’t know if we ever do. I hope we can some day. I fear we won’t. 

Having second class citizens based upon nothing other than race is unmitigated bullshit. I thought it was on the way out in our country, but I was honestly wrong. I thought it was on the way out because it’s stupid, I didn’t grow up with it, and nobody in my social circle would ever think to out themselves in that way, so I think it’s a marginal and small situation, but I’m clearly wrong about that. 

PS- I think trump is probably one of the shittiest presidents ever- and it’s not for policy reasons- it’s because he’s a terrible human being. Something I wasn’t putting on Obama. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[Serak The Preparer 3,431]

10 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

My statement wasn’t meant to be provocative. If you read it again I was agreeing with brisket, who said essentially that people lost their minds about Obama because of racism and it melted their minds. 

I was agreeing with him!  I even repped his post!  

My point in bringing in the I thought Obama was a shitty president was saying - yeah- I agree with you about what is driving this right now- even though you and I don’t agree politically!  

It was actually topical to the thread and response. And I was saying my disagreement with Obama was substantive and policy based and I didn’t understand/was repulsed by the thought, that the blow back against him was based upon his race and not his actual actions in office- which should absolutely be fair game for criticism, even harsh criticism, in a fair and open minded, racially tolerant society. In fact, that’s when we will know we’ve reached where we want to be- when you can criticize someone based upon words and actions and it has nothing to do with what their identity is. 

We aren’t anywhere close to there and that makes me sad. I don’t know how we get there. I don’t know if we ever do. I hope we can some day. I fear we won’t. 

Having second class citizens based upon nothing other than race is unmitigated bullshit. I thought it was on the way out in our country, but I was honestly wrong. I thought it was on the way out because it’s stupid, I didn’t grow up with it, and nobody in my social circle would ever think to out themselves in that way, so I think it’s a marginal and small situation, but I’m clearly wrong about that. 

PS- I think trump is probably one of the shittiest presidents ever- and it’s not for policy reasons- it’s because he’s a terrible human being. Something I wasn’t putting on Obama. 

I wasn't complaining about your post, but if you honestly think saying that Obama was a shitty president is not a provocative statement, especially given the recent warning against political statements in multiple threads in DT, than I think your reading of other individuals is a little more suspect than you imagine.

[Mach 1 1,677]

Whoops

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Mach 1

[blacklab 11,943]

This is not the thread for politics. Start a thread in CR if you'd like to discuss politics around this.

[staboner 4,984]

On 5/30/2020 at 2:37 AM, Pancho said:

I'm tired. 

I'm tired of the killings of unarmed Black people.  

I'm tired of Black people getting the cops called on them for doing normal shit like bird watching.

I'm tired of wondering if I, a Black man who owns a home, need to call the police will they automatically shoot me on site because of my skin and not realize I own the damn house?

I'm tired of certain people getting mad at football players kneeling for police injustice yet those same people are mad at Black people rebelling because they've had enough. 

I'm just...tired.  There are many awesome parts about America and being and American, and I'm proud of that.  But if you aren't Black, I can't tell you how difficult it is to be a Black American.  I know what my grandmothers (may they rest in peach) went through during the 50s and 60s.  I wonder if what is happening now is similar or if that's too harsh of a comparison.  I remember asking a White poster on Hornfans if he would ever wish that he could change and let me be White and him Black for a week, and of course his response was "no way."  And pretty much all White people will say that because it's hard yall.  It's difficult. It's frustrating.  It's tiring. 

I've stayed out of the recent threads with the recent killings of Black people by police, the Bird lady, and others because there's just nothing really I can say.  This recent killing feels different, especially because I'm seeing all of the tweets by White athletes (just saw one by Joe Burrow and Carson Wentz) along with White celebs that I feel would haven't been posted during a killing like this a few years ago.  At least I don't remember it.  

I'm just rambling now, and I'm fully aware that posters like Brother Horn probably do not feel the same way.  After all, everyone has a different Frame  of Reference.  But for a large, large, large, large, large majority of Black Americans, I think I can speak for us/them when I said--we're tired. 

 

 

hang in there man.

i had a talk with my white 72 year old mother today. it was tough. she said "i don't understand. the black folks have gotten it so much better than they used to". which of course just made me irate. but that is another lens of this problem. racism, sadly, has always been a problem.  my mother is guilty of not listening, not caring, not trying to understand. that is what makes me so mad. is she racist? i would say no, but she enabling it (and its pains) to linger on because she is not engaging in fixing the problems that racism has/is causing. 

white America, the establishment, the democrats, the republican, and the government - the global structure of our governing society needs to just fucking acknowledge the problem of systemic inequality. that would be such a huge change. but alas. 2020. and here we are. you can't fix things if no one is listening, if no one cares. and so many people just don't fucking care and then when shit like this happens they say "I don't understand". yes, we know

sorry for this shit again. sadly, lots of folks just have to die off cause i just don't see them changing. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by staboner

[Thatguy 8,817]

First I want to say this to all my non back posters and fellow UT Grads. Black Americans would never be free if it wasn't for you helping us through the tough times in American history. To that fact I thank you. I also teach my daughter that as well. I want her to be wary of who she is, but also understand that there ARE good White Americans out there who, more than anything, want the country to progress into the country we all believe it can/should be. Thank you for all the kind words and support.

Pancho-

I know you are tired little bro, but the world needs us to fight. Everyday we wake up we have a responsibility to make the world better for the generation coming after us. We have to push for change. We have to positively affect ever non black person we come across on a daily basis. It is an exhausting existence, bit it is OUR existence all the same. Force them to acknowledge you, and the success that you are. Force even the most racist bigot to respect the efforts you put in. You change a few hearts and I promise I will do the same, and hopefully those hearts will be there to support us in our George Floyd moment. All around my home are staunch Trump voting, middle aged white people. My yard is just as nice as theirs. My cars are too. My wife and daughter are beautiful, respectful, and kind. We greet them every time we see them. They can NOT like us being their neighbors, but they WILL respect the fact that we dug success out the mud and parked right next to them. I teach my daughter if she wants to help the Black Community give the other communities a face in the black community to love. That is our job. Each one change one little bro....each one change one. So tomorrow strap up those boots, and go about doing what you've been doing for years. Keep shining. Much love!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Serak The Preparer 3,431]

12 minutes ago, blacklab said:

This is not the thread for politics. Start a thread in CR if you'd like to discuss politics around this.

Understood, and apologies for my contributions to the derailment. Very sincere appreciation to Pancho for sharing his feelings. I think the discussion of "seeing race" vs "not seeing race" was interesting, especially as I also have younger kids who don't currently see race as important (but I don't see that staying the same forever). But even so that should be secondary to just listening and hearing before reacting.

[Pancho 44,946]

2 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

I’d give you an honest answer, but I don’t think you would like it. It encroaches CR territory. 

So I will simply say I’m sorry that this has personally affected you as a black man. It is maddening for the entire country for you to feel unsafe and unequal.

I wasn’t looking for an answer as no question was asked in my original post.  And your response here comes off as disingenuous and flippant. But thank you.

[Pancho 44,946]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

First I want to say this to all my non back posters and fellow UT Grads. Black Americans would never be free if it wasn't for you helping us through the tough times in American history. To that fact I thank you. I also teach my daughter that as well. I want her to be wary of who she is, but also understand that there ARE good White Americans out there who, more than anything, want the country to progress into the country we all believe it can/should be. Thank you for all the kind words and support.
 

Yes, this needs to be said.  Well done. 

[Nicole44 22,072]

16 minutes ago, Pancho said:

Yes, this needs to be said.  Well done. 

How are you doing? I think your voice should be heard. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,146]

1 hour ago, Serak The Preparer said:

Understood, and apologies for my contributions to the derailment. Very sincere appreciation to Pancho for sharing his feelings. I think the discussion of "seeing race" vs "not seeing race" was interesting, especially as I also have younger kids who don't currently see race as important (but I don't see that staying the same forever). But even so that should be secondary to just listening and hearing before reacting.

Me too all the way. 

[Wulaw Horn 19,146]

47 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I wasn’t looking for an answer as no question was asked in my original post.  And your response here comes off as disingenuous and flippant. But thank you.

I’m serious when I say this, help me understand... I don’t read anything flippant in what he’s saying, where are you coming from when feeling that? 

The truth of the matter is that there are some dipshits full of hate and then a lot of

people that want things to be better and have no idea how to make that happen, nor how to have a conversation around any of the things going on. I think Spanky is on your side (I don’t know him personally and I don’t agree with much of what I’ve seen him say over the years on this website) but I’d be shocked if his heart wasn’t in the right place. 

I’d say the same about most everyone on here about most every subject, but at the end of the day I don’t understand and I do want to understand. 

 

Edited to add- fuck it, you don’t owe me an explanation and I’m not demanding one. If you don’t feel like it fee free to ignore the question. It is sincere and I am interested in the answer but you don’t have to and I don’t think you owe me shit. 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Wulaw Horn

[Spankytoes 1,743]

6 hours ago, Pancho said:

I wasn’t looking for an answer as no question was asked in my original post.  And your response here comes off as disingenuous and flippant. But thank you.

And therein lies the problem Pancho. You don’t want to be judged for the color of your skin. I don’t want to be dismissed because I can’t possibly know what it’s like to walk in your shoes and am automatically assumed to have a racist overtone because of the color of my skin. Until we can put aside our preconceptions, and have a logical discussion, the cycle will continue. 

We both agree that things need to change.

[troph 24,904]

You (wulaw horn) need to stop posting on this thread. Spankytoes response was condescending as hell. “I’d give you an honest answer but you don’t want to hear it”? Like pancho said, he didn’t ask a question. The only thing worse than mansplaining is white people telling black people how it is.

 

You don’t get to tell him spanky is on his aide. Pancho gets to tell you what’s what here.

 

Fuck white people and the the latent racism we - I said WE - engage in and don’t even see. It’s god damned bullshit. Ugh.

[Iceman 2,725]

18 minutes ago, troph said:

 

 

Fuck white people and the the latent racism we - I said WE - engage in and don’t even see. It’s god damned bullshit. Ugh.

telling isn't it?

SMDH!   "You're not qualified to discuss the human condition, gotdammit."

 

 

and people like you are not seeking solutions/ share opinions.  You just want to bitch.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Iceman

[Dewey 3,286]

I've gone through a life changing event, where I had to honestly confront who I was and work to change that, it's still and will always be a work in progress,  but it is progress. When I've been asked to help others, what strikes me, is the unwillingness to change, to admit who they are, and that's where we are with racism, that's where we've been for a long time. 

We as white people should honestly ask ourselves why, why when a black person or any person of color, is near, why do I feel anger or guilt, or negativity, why do I need to feel anything at all? Other than they are just as human as I. They have the same emotions as I, they bleed and feel pain just as I. They have a right to be happy just as I. Why do we complicate this so much? 

It's time for all of us to honestly face who we are and change how we think. Not just on the surface,  but deep down. On the surface we might say all the right things, but what's that emotion deep down? How does that change? The answer that I have found, for me, for all my troubles, is to confront it, to acknowledge these deep, depressing,  negative emotions, and work on them. 

I dont want to go any further,  I just wanted to share what I have learned and gone through and I dont understand when we have an opportunity for a better life, why we dont work to change for a better life. Fuck fear, face it 

 

[troph 24,904]

telling isn't it?
SMDH!   "You're not qualified to discuss the human condition, gotdammit."
 
 
and people like you are not seeking solutions/ share opinions.  You just want to bitch.

Not going to take you on in this thread. But there’s not one true statement in your response.

[aggie08 21,514]

15 hours ago, Iceman said:

Neither are you   Go be quiet.   LOlz.

You are aware that Js1 is a homosexual, correct? He may know a little more about oppression than you and I.

[Brian Fantana 6,690]

Slorch has the awareness and tact of a coconut so probably not.

[Js1 85,495]

7 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

Slorch has the awareness and tact of a coconut so probably not.

Wow that’s insulting to coconuts 

[Rougarou 594]

I think we should all admit to ourselves and others that in our worst moments, we are all prejudiced (and for some that means can be racist). We should evaluate the worst moments and understand why that is. I think it will boil down to fear.

Seriously, do some cognitive behavioral therapy around why we act the way we do in our ugliest and darkest of mental times and you’ll see that it boils down to fear.

Fear.

A few points to build a premise and then a few questions we should ask ourselves (we being, white people with good homes and private schools making $300k a year).I feel like some questions to ask:

First: keep things in the perspective of the behavior chain. Think of how our micro and macro triggers, thoughts and actions lead us to results.

* Trigger -> Thinking -> Actions -> Results/consequences 

Next: Understand that because of the country we’ve architected, economically and politically, we necessarily live in a zero-sum game where there must be economic inequality. If we want equality we need to have a revolution. Either that or sell people on being okay with just being middle class, for the sake of everyone’s good (egalitarianism). Our society has had the well poisoned to lust for comfort and violent delights, and as we’ve heard in the HBO thread, “violent delights have violent ends”.

Lastly: We have to be honest that to help those who need it most, takes actual sacrifice and not just lip service. It takes action. It means not fleeing en masse when diversity measures bring poorer black folks into the neighborhood because you are afraid. Or feeling schools and leaving them to deteriorate because of fear. Or not accepting/voting for higher taxes on yourself to help others because you don’t want to sacrifice. If we are honest and sincere about helping then it’s that last word: sacrifice.

So the questions I think we have to ask:

- Is our pain and empathy so much for our black brothers and sisters we are willing to sacrifice? If so, then sacrifice how much? And what is the tipping point? We don’t need everyone, but enough to swing the pendulum. What number is that?

-Individually: Is your comfort and privilege so great that you are scared to lose it?  Is your comfort and privilege worth having another be in discomfort and pain?

Pancho, others feel free to tell me to kick rocks if I’m off base here but these are my thoughts and conversations I’ve had with my family in response to George’s murder. His death is not in vain; people are communicating. He’s not being ignored, at the very least.

Now, will that remain the case, I don’t know. Someone else mentioned we tend to have short memories and fall back to our emotional and material comforts in a hurry, the upper rungs of society.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Rougarou

[Brisketexan 105,213]

I've gone through a life changing event, where I had to honestly confront who I was and work to change that, it's still and will always be a work in progress,  but it is progress. When I've been asked to help others, what strikes me, is the unwillingness to change, to admit who they are, and that's where we are with racism, that's where we've been for a long time. 
We as white people should honestly ask ourselves why, why when a black person or any person of color, is near, why do I feel anger or guilt, or negativity, why do I need to feel anything at all? Other than they are just as human as I. They have the same emotions as I, they bleed and feel pain just as I. They have a right to be happy just as I. Why do we complicate this so much? 
It's time for all of us to honestly face who we are and change how we think. Not just on the surface,  but deep down. On the surface we might say all the right things, but what's that emotion deep down? How does that change? The answer that I have found, for me, for all my troubles, is to confront it, to acknowledge these deep, depressing,  negative emotions, and work on them. 
I dont want to go any further,  I just wanted to share what I have learned and gone through and I dont understand when we have an opportunity for a better life, why we dont work to change for a better life. Fuck fear, face it 
 

“Honestly facing who we are” is the antithesis of the American brand. Our brand is to build up and buy into a mythology (greatest country on earth! Shining city on a hill!), and instead of processing evidence that perhaps those things aren’t true, deny it and accuse all who present such evidence as being traitors, and if you don’t like it, then leave!

I would guess that some of Pancho’s frustration is the same as mine: it’s not just that there are many shitty things about our society; it’s that we work so hard as a collective to resist any effort to fix those shitty things.

Are we reaching a point as an entire society where we’re going to demand better from our police, and have zero tolerance for racism in their ranks? Maybe...time will tell. But even if we are...look how long it took us to get here. As Ice-T’s tweet yesterday said, “I’ve been telling you this shit for 30 years.”

[troph 24,904]

I agree with individual soul searching and individual sacrifice but racism isn’t just a belief it’s an institution and that means it’s impacted every institution in America. Dismantling racism will require a lot more. So much more - every single aspect of our society - healthcare, banking, education (pre-school, primary, secondary and higher ed), law enforcement, judicial system, curriculum, employment practices, housing laws, government backed lending, hell the very essence of capitalism has a strong foundation of racism.

We can change our hearts we can listen we can do all of these things but we need to demand from our elected officials or better yet become those elected officials or even better than that vote for those POC who run for office so that we can dismantle institutional racism. Until that happens, we will always be a country founded by continuing racism.

Edited May 31, 2020 by troph

[mchookem 16,361]

On 5/29/2020 at 12:11 PM, Goo Punch said:

 

 

here's another thought experiment, one i put my family thru in real life 25 years ago, and boy was it revealing...

all you dads out there... ask yourself how you would react if your child - especially your daughter - came home and told you she was in love and marrying a black man? how did your stomach react just now just reading that sentence, did you feel it? i think that's what's officially known as a 'gut check'.

most of us will say or do 'the right thing' but we don't even really know ourselves until it's concrete in our lives.

i'm sorry, too Pancho

[Rougarou 594]

1 minute ago, mchookem said:

here's another thought experiment, one i put my family thru in real life 25 years ago, and boy was it revealing...

all you dads out there... ask yourself how you would react if your child - especially your daughter - came home and told you she was in love and marrying a black man? how did your stomach react just now just reading that sentence, did you feel it? i think that's what's officially known as a 'gut check'.

most of us will say or do 'the right thing' but we don't even really know ourselves until it's concrete in our lives.

i'm sorry, too Pancho

Yep, I'll be honest and vulnerable here, since Pancho is-- my wife and I asked ourselves this last year when our young daughter showed interest/thought her friend in grade school was cute. My wife was a lot more ambivalent than I was initially, to put it politely. Unconscious bias and privilege and false ideals of control and protectionism.

[jimmyjazz 46,057]

20 minutes ago, mchookem said:

all you dads out there... ask yourself how you would react if your child - especially your daughter - came home and told you she was in love and marrying a black man? how did your stomach react just now just reading that sentence, did you feel it? i think that's what's officially known as a 'gut check'.

Wouldn't bother me in the least.  Hell, her first "boyfriend" heading into middle school was the very large, very black son of a UT assistant football coach (Bo Davis).  Nice kid.

[Iceman 2,725]

1 hour ago, mchookem said:

here's another thought experiment, one i put my family thru in real life 25 years ago, and boy was it revealing...

all you dads out there... ask yourself how you would react if your child - especially your daughter - came home and told you she was in love and marrying a black man? how did your stomach react just now just reading that sentence, did you feel it? i think that's what's officially known as a 'gut check'.

most of us will say or do 'the right thing' but we don't even really know ourselves until it's concrete in our lives.

i'm sorry, too Pancho

My youngest son has been dating an African American woman for 2 years.  She has even( gasp!) spent the night at our house multiple times.  I'd put it at 50-50 that they end up getting married.

 

So fucking scary...LOLz.  I will admit  introducing her to my mom at a family get together was more fun for me  than it should have been.

 

I'll go back to being racist white piece of shit a crap ton of y'all think I am...  I get a kick out of how 'challenging' these exercises in treating people with decency is supposed to be.

 

The real challenge is thinking about my potential grandkids and how they will be viewed by the scorekeepers. My son is pasty white and they are gonna be some cornball bruthas at heart. I   pray they can overcome the racism on multiple fronts.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Iceman

[sidis 9,832]

6 hours ago, Spankytoes said:

and am automatically assumed to have a racist overtone because of the color of my skin. 

I suspect it is your illustrious posting history moreso than the color of your skin. 

[Helobious 9,464]

12 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I’m serious when I say this, help me understand... I don’t read anything flippant in what he’s saying, where are you coming from when feeling that? 

I'm not black but I know exactly what Pancho is talking about. The classic "I won't tell you what I really think because you can't handle it/are too dumb to understand because you're a minority, so here's a placative statement". Notice how spanky didn't just say "It's maddening for everyone that you feel unequal" he had to put the condescending qualifier in front of it. I hear that underhanded shit all the time. 

[TwiceHorn 31,520]

13 hours ago, Pancho said:

Yes, this needs to be said.  Well done. 

I don't like being accused for the actions of my forebears, but at the same time, I don't feel like I or most white Americans should be praised, either.

It's quite a conundrum.

This is one hell of a conviction.

 

[troph 24,904]

My youngest son has been dating an African American woman for 2 years.  She has even( gasp!) spent the night at our house multiple times.  I'd put it at 50-50 that they end up getting married.
 
So fucking scary...LOLz.  I will admit  introducing her to my mom at a family get together was more fun for me  than it should have been.
 
I'll go back to being racist white piece of shit a crap ton of y'all think I am...  I get a kick out of how 'challenging' these exercises in treating people with decency is supposed to be.
 
The real challenge is thinking about my potential grandkids and how they will be viewed by the scorekeepers. My son is pasty white and they are gonna be some cornball bruthas at heart. I   pray they can overcome the racism on multiple fronts.

The problem is you and me and every white person that stops at individual racism hasn’t helped fix the problem. It’s more about our institutions and how they reinforce racist outcomes. But you keep slapping your hands together back and forth like you’ve dusted the racism from your hands and have done your part.

Having black friends or a black son in law or girlfriend or whatever doesn’t mean jack to the black kids staring up into a wickedly racist system and learning about it at the youngest of ages or the black men being incarcerated at sinful rates or the black men being massacred even when they have given up like they are told to do.

[Guest Lobo]

Yeah, sorry but "my kid has a black significant other" is the new "it's cool, I have a black friend at work"

One on one racism is very much on the decline.  Power structures designed to inhibit education, criminal justice reform, and upward mobility are the real problem.