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I'm tired.

Pancho

By Pancho
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Iceman

Iceman 2694

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Lobo said:

Yeah, sorry but "my kid has a black significant other" is the new "it's cool, I have a black friend at work"

 

yeah.  i knew this before I posted it.  Don't care.  Folks insist someone's a racist and there is no way to refute it other than sharing life experiences...then the goalposts are moved and they don't qualify...as if the scorekeepers' affirmation is the goal.

 

Nothing ever measures up.   Exclusivity has its privileges...  still raised kids that view the world the right way.  That's the goal.

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Iceman

Iceman 2694

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1 hour ago, troph said:


The problem is you and me and every white person that stops at individual racism hasn’t helped fix the problem. It’s more about our institutions and how they reinforce racist outcomes. But you keep slapping your hands together back and forth like you’ve dusted the racism from your hands and have done your part.

Having black friends or a black son in law or girlfriend or whatever doesn’t mean jack to the black kids staring up into a wickedly racist system and learning about it at the youngest of ages or the black men being incarcerated at sinful rates or the black men being massacred even when they have given up like they are told to do.

so my hiring decisions at work, be an advocate for diversity and engagement;  my community involvement( working with youth)  that's all probably worthless horseshit too. right?

 

Just give me a thumbs-up... I'm dying for it!!!

 

Question:  if that's not where change starts, then help me the fuck out...

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troph

troph 24781

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Posted
so my hiring decisions at work, be an advocate for diversity and engagement;  my community involvement( working with youth)  that's all probably worthless horseshit too. right?
 
Just give me a thumbs-up... I'm dying for it!!!
 
Question:  if that's not where change starts, then help me the fuck out...

Yeah that’s much better. You’re a real saint.
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Serak The Preparer

Serak The Preparer 3431

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2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't like being accused for the actions of my forebears, but at the same time, I don't feel like I or most white Americans should be praised, either.

It's quite a conundrum.

This is one hell of a conviction.

 

I don't think anyone (or at least the large majority of people) are throwing accusations because of actions of ancestors. It is more acknowledgement that our ancestors did some really ahitty things and we benefit from it. Where we go from there can encompass anything from wealth redistribution / reparations to tearing down institutional policies to simple conversations.

Maybe I am placing too much emphasis on your discomfort with the word accusation but I am coming to feel that as we (whites) think about our history that we start imagining more anger and accusation that actually exists to individuals. 

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Guest Lobo

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9 minutes ago, Iceman said:

yeah.  i knew this before I posted it.  Don't care.  Folks insist someone's a racist and there is no way to refute it other than sharing life experiences...then the goalposts are moved and they don't qualify...as if the scorekeepers' affirmation is the goal.

 

Nothing ever measures up.   Exclusivity has its privileges...  still raised kids that view the world the right way.  That's the goal.

No man, it's a fair point.  And you're right, it's this really subjective thing that you can never really prove what's in your heart/mind.  And it sucks because our children and their choices really are, maybe the most powerful reflection of our value sets and sounds like you've done a great job, the kind I aspire to with my kids (they're really little right now, but I can already see they could give fuck one about skin color, they just wanna play with non-shitty people and they have asians and hispanics on the street to play with).  Was just picking on your comment because I think, even most Black Americans would agree, it's not the individual White American, that's at odds with them.  Even the average White American family.  Or even the average White American small business, bank, etc. 

It's the police force who is backed by the city council who gets no pressure to do the right thing from the Chamber of Commerce, none of whom help the public school district, who complain to a county or a state that doesn't give a shit about their community but for crime stats votes come bond time.  And then we have to realize that the reason they don't turn out to vote isn't because of low interest, it's apathy at best and at worst it's inability to vote due to previous felony convictions due to mandatory drug sentencing for minor drug crimes.  And then it's made sure they can't get out of debt by confiscatory lending practices.  And on, and on, and on.  I used to think it was a bunch of whiny black people complaining about trivial shit they couldn't overcome on their own.  Then I got older and more compassionate (opposite of most Republicans) and thought, "let's bring them into the tent and see what we have in common, hell I'm a Brown person from a working class family myself, not exactly Black...but I bet we're closer than we think."  Then I went to law school, got really old, got into a position of influence politically, saw the inside of our financial system, and even bought a community bank on the south side of Chicago.  and then I realized, it ain't a conspiracy.  It's not really overt either.  And it's not meant to keep a particular race down.  It's just designed to keep a certain kind (not color, but type) or person in their station in life.  It's a digitally structured caste system.  They don't mean for it to unfairly target blacks, but they don't lose a wink of sleep over the disproportionate number of blacks affected either.  

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troph

troph 24781

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Posted
yeah.  i knew this before I posted it.  Don't care.  Folks insist someone's a racist and there is no way to refute it other than sharing life experiences...then the goalposts are moved and they don't qualify...as if the scorekeepers' affirmation is the goal.

 

Nothing ever measures up.   Exclusivity has its privileges...  still raised kids that view the world the right way.  That's the goal.

Never called you anything. And it’s not arguable what lobo is saying. Every card drawn by POC in our society is laced with racism. Our goal should be to dismantle it not prove we aren’t one. But you get self righteous because I didn’t say how awesome you are. So I’ll just say it.

 

Hey bud, you’re kicking ass all kinds of awesome!!

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Js1

Js1 85288

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2 hours ago, troph said:

Never called you anything. And it’s not arguable what lobo is saying. Every card drawn by POC in our society is laced with racism. Our goal should be to dismantle it not prove we aren’t one. But you get self righteous because I didn’t say how awesome you are. So I’ll just say it.

 

Hey bud, you’re kicking ass all kinds of awesome!!

Slorch is so woke he solved racism. 

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Pancho

Pancho 44712

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This thread took an odd turn.  

But the tweet below is what I'm talking about in my original post.  I don't know that 99% of those who post on this board have to do this with their sons to this extent.  I do fully recognize that some of you have the talk--albeit a minor talk--about just saying "yes sir, no sir."  That, however, is way different from this. 

 

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Pancho

Pancho 44712

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On 5/31/2020 at 5:57 AM, Spankytoes said:

And therein lies the problem Pancho. You don’t want to be judged for the color of your skin. I don’t want to be dismissed because I can’t possibly know what it’s like to walk in your shoes and am automatically assumed to have a racist overtone because of the color of my skin. Until we can put aside our preconceptions, and have a logical discussion, the cycle will continue. 

We both agree that things need to change.

 

I don't think I or others are automatically assuming there are racist overtones because of your skin color. That was not my intention with my reply, so I apologize if that's what you were thinking.  

I do disagree that people (not saying me and you specifically) are beyond the point of conversations.  It's time for action.  Now if you mean we (collective) need to converse in order to find that action/agency, then yes, I agree with you. 

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Spankytoes

Spankytoes 1739

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9 hours ago, Pancho said:

 

I don't think I or others are automatically assuming there are racist overtones because of your skin color. That was not my intention with my reply, so I apologize if that's what you were thinking.  

I do disagree that people (not saying me and you specifically) are beyond the point of conversations.  It's time for action.  Now if you mean we (collective) need to converse in order to find that action/agency, then yes, I agree with you. 

Respect

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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19068

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Pancho said:

This thread took an odd turn.  

But the tweet below is what I'm talking about in my original post.  I don't know that 99% of those who post on this board have to do this with their sons to this extent.  I do fully recognize that some of you have the talk--albeit a minor talk--about just saying "yes sir, no sir."  That, however, is way different from this. 

 

This is just so unbelievable to me. Not in the sense that I’m saying you aren’t telling the truth, but in the sense it’s so far beyond what I’ve ever dealt with or comprehended in my life I don’t know how to process it in any way shape or form. 

Yeah- we tell our kids if they have a problem to go to a fireman or something like that and ignore the police, and if the police ever ask them something to immediately say- I want to talk to my dad- he’s a lawyer- and then shut up until I show up, but that literally wouldn’t ever cross my mind as a lesson or conversation I’d have with my kids. 

Every now and again I will get salty with a cop when they have a bad attitude (rare but occasionally) and on those occasions I do actually kinda recognize that I wouldn’t be able to do that if I weren’t upper middle class white. I can’t even remember the last time that happened but I basically told the cop- no way- that didn’t happen- and he backed down and I got a warning that I basically acted with contempt toward and called him on it. That goes down differently if it’s you probably.  Or maybe it doesn’t go down differently 99 times out of 100 but the other time you get shot. 

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pops

pops 6980

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I'm sorry poncho. Can't get it and won't pretend that I can. 

But know in real life I would be kind to you and I'm teaching my kids the same. That won't fix anything or make anything right, but it's all I've got. 

Hang in there my man. There is more good than bad in this world even if it doesn't seem that way. 

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mulletpelini

mulletpelini 5210

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I was lucky to grow up with parents that accepted everyone into our home.  I've seen what the other side looks like in my former in-laws and their beliefs.  I think the good news Pancho is that these next few generations don't give a shit what the old fucks say or do, and in some ways that's bad but in this case it's really good.  I've seen my oldest son grow up in that racist environment and not succumb to it, and I think it's mostly because more in his generation are empowered and speak out more than we did.  It's not going to be fixed tomorrow, next week or even next year.  But I really believe once these old piece of shit cowards fucks die off, then the new kids will prevail.

I talk a lot of shit about that generation because I don't understand the way they do the things they do, but I do see them doing better than mine in this area. 

This country needs a ton of healing to get back to where it once was.......and hopefully these kids are the ones that make a difference.

 

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Gatorubet

Gatorubet 30185

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On 5/29/2020 at 11:37 AM, Pancho said:

I'm tired. 

I'm tired of the killings of unarmed Black people.  

I'm tired of Black people getting the cops called on them for doing normal shit like bird watching.

I'm tired of wondering if I, a Black man who owns a home, need to call the police will they automatically shoot me on site because of my skin and not realize I own the damn house?

A guy I know had a daughter who did not get in her  first choice university while some black guy with the same score did.  So I can understand your pain.

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

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9 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Pancho,

What do you think of the Eyes of Texas controversy?

Interested too in @Catdaddyhorn's thoughts.

 

I remember the first bit of eyebrow raising controversies that caught me off guard was the movement to remove Woodrow Wilson's name from school buildings at Princeton. He was totally off my radar at the time as an object of derision. Made me realize that I'm getting old and my views differ greatly from people, who before then, I didn't consider myself that much older than. The past few years have taught me that every generation decides for themselves what they're willing to tolerate.  It's their time. Their decision. 

Probably like most of you, it's difficult for me to see things through their eyes, but I'm willing to listen.  And to be honest, part of me views it as a negotiation and ultimately other things on their list will be prioritized over the changing of The Eyes.  

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jimmyjazz

jimmyjazz 45891

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Oh man, the allergies.  That cop and the little girl . . . shit.  That girl has been justifiably taught to be wary of any cop.  I'm glad a good one came along and reached out.  I'd like to see cops hand over a business card or cell # in those situations and say "hey, if you ever need help or just want to talk, give me a call".  It might not be much but it could go a little way towards easing some of the tension.  I don't think shitbags like Chauvin would be much inclined to do so.

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

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Don't know how I missed this thread before. I was just responding to @TwiceHorn's tag and posted accordingly.  I'm reading a book right now entitled "The Warmth of other Suns" by Isabel Wilkerson. It's part of a list of books I made for myself to gain more understanding on how exactly we got where we are today as a country. This book in particular focuses on the great migration of black folks out of the south. 

One thing that the last few weeks has made abundantly clear is how little white america knows of the black experience in America. Yeah sure the highlights are often discussed on a superficial level (slavery, Jim Crow, Martin Luther King), but the actual lives lived, the depths of depravity borne, and the consequences of the trauma endured is rarely investigated in much detail. And I'm only talking about the 20th century onward. This lack of knowledge and true understanding creates a deficit of empathy. A deficit that needs to be overcome if we ever hope to fulfill the lofty ideals that this country holds sacred.

 

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mdmost

mdmost 43000

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Yeah, it seems empathy is only supposed to be one way for the law and order types. These cops have a hard job, you should empathize with them. Right, and you should empathize with the black person who fears any time they see an officer that something bad is going to happen to them that ends up with their life being ended.

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Texoz

Texoz 1

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On 5/29/2020 at 11:37 AM, Pancho said:

I'm tired. 

I'm tired of the killings of unarmed Black people.  

I'm tired of Black people getting the cops called on them for doing normal shit like bird watching.

I'm tired of wondering if I, a Black man who owns a home, need to call the police will they automatically shoot me on site because of my skin and not realize I own the damn house?

I'm tired of certain people getting mad at football players kneeling for police injustice yet those same people are mad at Black people rebelling because they've had enough. 

I'm just...tired.  There are many awesome parts about America and being and American, and I'm proud of that.  But if you aren't Black, I can't tell you how difficult it is to be a Black American.  I know what my grandmothers (may they rest in peach) went through during the 50s and 60s.  I wonder if what is happening now is similar or if that's too harsh of a comparison.  I remember asking a White poster on Hornfans if he would ever wish that he could change and let me be White and him Black for a week, and of course his response was "no way."  And pretty much all White people will say that because it's hard yall.  It's difficult. It's frustrating.  It's tiring. 

I've stayed out of the recent threads with the recent killings of Black people by police, the Bird lady, and others because there's just nothing really I can say.  This recent killing feels different, especially because I'm seeing all of the tweets by White athletes (just saw one by Joe Burrow and Carson Wentz) along with White celebs that I feel would haven't been posted during a killing like this a few years ago.  At least I don't remember it.  

I'm just rambling now, and I'm fully aware that posters like Brother Horn probably do not feel the same way.  After all, everyone has a different Frame  of Reference.  But for a large, large, large, large, large majority of Black Americans, I think I can speak for us/them when I said--we're tired. 

 

 

This time is different. I was in LA during '92 riots so I have that perspective. 

There are no simple answers or solutions to breaking the chain of racism that's bound us for thousands of years, but we must, or it will break us. There is hope, though. When you observe how we react to disasters (like earthquakes, hurricanes or floods), or to moments of great trauma, like rescuing someone from a car wreck or fire, you see people focus on one thing, survival of those around them. We have some clarity in that crucible that we are all one species and all that matters is survival. The bullshit disappears, the hate evaporates and we just help each other, at least for a little while. 

I'm not going to muddy this conversation with other issues, but they are out there and they are even more dangerous than racism. However, until we get past racism and hate, it's unlikely we'll solve those. I hope this moment is transformative because I think the clock is running out. The time for change is now or never.  Survive together, or perish separately. 

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Whitewater Horn

Whitewater Horn 968

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 6/1/2020 at 9:40 AM, Pancho said:

This thread took an odd turn.  

But the tweet below is what I'm talking about in my original post.  I don't know that 99% of those who post on this board have to do this with their sons to this extent.  I do fully recognize that some of you have the talk--albeit a minor talk--about just saying "yes sir, no sir."  That, however, is way different from this. 

 

I guess I’m in whatever percent of people on this board who DO have to have this kind of talk with my 13 year old son. It sucks that we’ve already been having similar conversations for years about dealing with law enforcement and authority figures. Now we’re discussing strategies of how to survive these interactions when, not if, they occur. If my heart wasn’t already completely broken, full of exasperation and outrage with all of the recent murders of unarmed black American citizens, the following recent exchange with my son surely did me in. I noticed my son seemed unusually quiet and not as engaged as usual, so I asked if he was feeling okay, and said yeah. Then after a pause he said, in a defeated tone I’ve never heard from him before, “it just sucks to know that when I’m a little older I’ll probably get killed by the police. I wish I could have a fun and cool life like you and Pappy (my dad).”  It’s infuriating and terrifying to have to accept that my fatherly love and preparation can only do so much for my son, who for his whole life up to this point has been a sweet and funny kid with personality and charisma for days. But as he ages, many in his native state and country only see a young black male, and because of that he feels like an endangered species. That feeling should be laughed off as as hyperbole, but there’s truth to it. I’m tired, too. And I’m sorry for anyone who is having to have these kinds of conversations with their children or other loved ones. We, and I’m taking about all human beings, have to be better than this. 

Edited by Whitewater Horn
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Wulaw Horn

Wulaw Horn 19068

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27 minutes ago, Whitewater Horn said:

I guess I’m in whatever percent of people on this board who DO have to have this kind of talk with my 13 year old son. It sucks that we’ve already been having similar conversations for years about dealing with law enforcement and authority figures. Now we’re discussing strategies of how to survive these interactions when, not if, they occur. If my heart wasn’t already completely broken, full of exasperation and outrage with all of the recent murders of unarmed black American citizens, the following recent exchange with my son surely did me in. I noticed my son seemed unusually quiet and not as engaged as usual, so I asked if he was feeling okay, and said yeah. Then after a pause he said, in a defeated tone I’ve never heard from him before, “it just sucks to know that when I’m a little older I’ll probably get killed by the police. I wish I could have a fun and cool life like you and Pappy (my dad).”  It’s infuriating and terrifying to have to accept that my fatherly love and preparation can only do so much for my son, who for his whole life up to this point has been a sweet and funny kid with personality and charisma for days. But as he ages, many in his native state and country only see a young black male, and because of that he feels like an endangered species. That feeling should be laughed off as as hyperbole, but there’s truth to it. I’m tired, too. And I’m sorry for anyone who is having to have these kinds of conversations with their children or other loved ones. We, and I’m taking about all human beings, have to be better than this. 

How did you end it with him?  The numbers would say 1/100,000 chance (total black deaths/number of black males in America) of that happening so his sense of numerical likelihood is way off, but the feeling I’m sure, is very real. 

How do you talk to your kid in that scenario?  

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Iceman

Iceman 2694

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Posted (edited)

Might be important to discuss the possibility of something other than death that could still be very devastating/ depriving of liberty/ justice.

I am not dismissing the horror of death, but rather pointing out that it is far from the only negative outcome.

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Whitewater Horn

Whitewater Horn 968

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22 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

How did you end it with him?  The numbers would say 1/100,000 chance (total black deaths/number of black males in America) of that happening so his sense of numerical likelihood is way off, but the feeling I’m sure, is very real. 

How do you talk to your kid in that scenario?  

Of course I present the rational and statistical side of it, too. I don’t want him walking around feeling resigned to an untimely and unjust death at the hands of police or “concerned homeowners who think he fits the description of a suspected burglar who will chase him down in their pickup truck.”  
 

Having adopted my children out of a horrific environment when they were 3 and 5 years old, gaining and keeping their trust has always been paramount. I’ve always tried to be as straight up as possible about life and the world we live in, up to their level of maturity and comprehension. I don’t sugar coat things. When they ask me direct questions, I give them direct answers.  Anytime I tell them something is going to happen, no matter how minor, I make sure it happens. If there is a change, I explain why. I’m sure this is important with bio children, but consistency is everything for kids coming out of the foster system who are used to getting bullshitted and fucked over by adults. 
 

I try to handle this by preparing them for the worst, but that I also don’t want them to go through life with irrational fears. I make sure they understand that fair or unfair, there is a perception of “you are who you roll with,” so be mindful and discerning of the company you keep and how you may appear to others, especially white adults. My son has always been a car nut and gearhead. He wants to customize a car with dark tint and build a sound system. He’s afraid that when people see cars like that they think “gangsta” or drug dealer. He just loves cars and music. Anyway, the point I’m trying to find is that it’s a balancing act. I want to tell them that it’s unlikely that harm will come to them as long as they obey the law and be aware of their company and surroundings. At the same time, I feel I would be failing them if I didn’t make sure that they see and understand what is happening to people who look like them. The thing that keeps me optimistic is that my kids communicate with me for real. They talk to me about things that are real and even embarrassing, especially for a 13 year old boy and a girl turning 16 next week.  The conversation is ongoing, and I consider myself fortunate that they trust me and come to me to talk about their feelings, their dreams, their fears, their questions, etc. I suppose I just try to make them understand that everything I do is out of unconditional love with the intention of providing the best preparation for adult life. 

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Catdaddyhorn

Catdaddyhorn 3444

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1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

How did you end it with him?  The numbers would say 1/100,000 chance (total black deaths/number of black males in America) of that happening so his sense of numerical likelihood is way off, but the feeling I’m sure, is very real. 

How do you talk to your kid in that scenario?  

Much like terrorism the impact of police killings is far reaching and impacts those beyond the people who are directly hurt by a violent act. The constant hostility and over escalation of run of the mill interactions is a frequent occurrence. The seemingly random nature of it all and tense interactions with police over routine violations make the sense of doom palpable. Anytime I get stopped after an incident pops up, my rationality and knowledge that there‘a low likelihood of anything actually happening goes right out the window the moment an officer decides to approach my car with his gun drawn. I’ve either experienced it myself, witnessed, or had family members experience so many bullshit escalations over mundane stuff with police over the years that I’ll never not tense up when Im around them. One my frat brothers, who is now a surgeon (I don’t know why I even included his occupation. I guess it’s part of some deeply ingrained reflex to express that his life has value), once backed into a cop’s horse after he tripped while backing out of a party on 6th street.  The cop, from atop the horse, put him in a choke hold for having the gall to bump into his horse. 

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scottsins

scottsins 1966

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Posted
Much like terrorism the impact of police killings is far reaching and impacts those beyond the people who are directly hurt by a violent act. The constant hostility and over escalation of run of the mill interactions is a frequent occurrence. The seemingly random nature of it all and tense interactions with police over routine violations make the sense of doom palpable. Anytime I get stopped after an incident pops up, my rationality and knowledge that there‘a low likelihood of anything actually happening goes right out the window the moment an officer decides to approach my car with his gun drawn. I’ve either experienced it myself, witnessed, or had family members experience so many bullshit escalations over mundane stuff with police over the years that I’ll never not tense up when Im around them. One my frat brothers, who is now a surgeon (I don’t know why I even included his occupation. I guess it’s part of some deeply ingrained reflex to express that his life has value), once backed into a cop’s horse after he tripped while backing out of a party on 6th street.  The cop, from atop the horse, put him in a choke hold for having the gall to bump into his horse. 

#horselivesmatter


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Pancho

Pancho 44712

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Sigh...

 

Todays’s “judgment” on the Taylor case doesn’t even move the needle. That’s where I am at. I knows the results would be disappointing because they always are. 
 

This is just really frustrating, and I’m not sure what else is left to do. It doesn’t feel as if the America I know and love actually loves Black and Brown people back.

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956 Worldwide

956 Worldwide 34702

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Because of course they don’t.

Quote

Police have said there were no witnesses to the shooting and that Meade did not have a bodycam because Franklin County Sheriff's deputies do not have bodycams. 

I’ve heard the arguments against them, but alive never heard one that isn’t self-serving.  I don’t know how you enforce this, but a good start would be a federal law saying no funding or EDAs until your force all has bodycams.

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/local/2020/12/08/casey-goodson-latest-police-shooting-black-man-columbus-ohio/6488824002/

 

 

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Brisketexan

Brisketexan 105076

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4 hours ago, Hornius Emeritus said:

Don't really know where to post this,  but it happened again.
 

 

What I've read about this is odd as hell.  Official version says he drove by the cops "waving a gun".....but no mention that he was waving it or brandishing it when he was shot in his doorway....but a gun was on him.....which he had a permit for.  But the "nobody has cameras" shit is getting ridiculous.

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Guest Lobo

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This isn't some local suburban grunt, this is a County Sheriff?  That county has 1.4mm people, I'm sure they can find the tax base to get some scratch together to buy a few dozen bodycams for the Sheriff.  Maybe hold a fundraiser, or sell off one of their tanks?  And they can't blame it on "Defund the Police" bullshit, that county's 2019 and 2020 budgets were settled long before George Floyd/Defund the police narratives began, and in every year---they've opted not to invest in this technology.  

I have woken up in some real armpits in Latin America, Africa, and the South Side of Chicago.  And the most afraid for my personal safety that I ever was in my entire life was in Columbus, Ohio.  

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Dbeasy

Dbeasy 15042

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This isn't some local suburban grunt, this is a County Sheriff?  That county has 1.4mm people, I'm sure they can find the tax base to get some scratch together to buy a few dozen bodycams for the Sheriff.  Maybe hold a fundraiser, or sell off one of their tanks?  And they can't blame it on "Defund the Police" bullshit, that county's 2019 and 2020 budgets were settled long before George Floyd/Defund the police narratives began, and in every year---they've opted not to invest in this technology.  
I have woken up in some real armpits in Latin America, Africa, and the South Side of Chicago.  And the most afraid for my personal safety that I ever was in my entire life was in Columbus, Ohio.  

If they don’t have them by now, it’s because they’ve purposely dragged their feet on it.
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Guest Lobo

Guest Lobo

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Just now, alincoln said:

"Steers and queers" chants do strike fear in all but the bravest of men

No, it was more than shit thrown at our heads, somebody pushing us into a burning sofa, then the pistol-brandishing drunk, and then the knife pulled on me that got closer than I would have liked.  And the cops just glancing over like, 'they don't pay us enough to interfere...good luck.'  It made my time in Cleveland and Cincinnati look at Hawaii. 

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alincoln

alincoln 2371

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1 minute ago, Lobo said:

No, it was more than shit thrown at our heads, somebody pushing us into a burning sofa, then the pistol-brandishing drunk, and then the knife pulled on me that got closer than I would have liked.  And the cops just glancing over like, 'they don't pay us enough to interfere...good luck.'  It made my time in Cleveland and Cincinnati look at Hawaii. 

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