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Trump goes to church

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GHOSTUSER

GHOSTUSER 361

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1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

The facts don’t matter

Right such as the fact that the crowd was ordered to disperse to comply with the curfew. The order was ignored. Watching CNN last night there was not a mention of this in order to try to frame things as an unprovoked, unannounced violent crowd dispersal.

"As Mr. Trump delivered a speech in the Rose Garden vowing to send the military to states where governors could not bring rioting under control but calling himself “an ally of all peaceful protesters,” the sound of explosions and the yells of demonstrators could be heard. After receiving repeated warnings to disperse before the city’s curfew, the crowd was tear-gassed."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/us/politics/trump-st-johns-church-bible.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

I am not surprised but disappointed in the Bishop of DC's comments. It is what I have come to expect from our church leadership. At least our Presiding Bishop was less inflammatory in his denunciation. It would be nice if the Episcopal Church leadership would realize that being partisan has driven away lots of people from our church. I stick around because I love the liturgy and don't want my faith to be comfortable to me. I want to have my beliefs challenged and my heart softened and changed.  I have to battle my biases, upbringing and sick mind. 

 

 

moved to new thread by Blacklab as it's clogging up the main thread

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Captainant

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8 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Right such as the fact that the crowd was ordered to disperse to comply with the curfew. The order was ignored. Watching CNN last night there was not a mention of this in order to try to frame things as an unprovoked, unannounced violent crowd dispersal.

"As Mr. Trump delivered a speech in the Rose Garden vowing to send the military to states where governors could not bring rioting under control but calling himself “an ally of all peaceful protesters,” the sound of explosions and the yells of demonstrators could be heard. After receiving repeated warnings to disperse before the city’s curfew, the crowd was tear-gassed."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/us/politics/trump-st-johns-church-bible.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

I am not surprised but disappointed in the Bishop of DC's comments. It is what I have come to expect from our church leadership. At least our Presiding Bishop was less inflammatory in his denunciation. It would be nice if the Episcopal Church leadership would realize that being partisan has driven away lots of people from our church. I stick around because I love the liturgy and don't want my faith to be comfortable to me. I want to have my beliefs challenged and my heart softened and changed.  I have to battle my biases, upbringing and sick mind. 

First off: I have not seen or heard ANY reporting of orders to disburse, including from the church's volunteers who were also shot at while administering water to flush out tear gas from protesters eyes.

It was not curfew yet, and the protesters were demonstrating peacefully. The federal and military police had no justifiable reason to attack and forcefully remove the protesters from public property and space. Full stop.

Never mind the reason for pushing the protesters out before the curfew: the president wanted to walk out at exactly 7:01 PM, citizens rights be damned. It's a complete disregard for their right to peaceful protest and demonstration, and subjecting the rights of citizens to the whims of the executive.

That is a simple recitation of the facts. You are willfully misrepresenting the facts and distorting the truth to justify your love of violence against groups you dislike.

Hope you're not wearing a brown shirt today

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Bozo_Casanova

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Right such as the fact that the crowd was ordered to disperse to comply with the curfew. The order was ignored. Watching CNN last night there was not a mention of this in order to try to frame things as an unprovoked, unannounced violent crowd dispersal.

"As Mr. Trump delivered a speech in the Rose Garden vowing to send the military to states where governors could not bring rioting under control but calling himself “an ally of all peaceful protesters,” the sound of explosions and the yells of demonstrators could be heard. After receiving repeated warnings to disperse before the city’s curfew, the crowd was tear-gassed."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/us/politics/trump-st-johns-church-bible.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

I am not surprised but disappointed in the Bishop of DC's comments. It is what I have come to expect from our church leadership. At least our Presiding Bishop was less inflammatory in his denunciation. It would be nice if the Episcopal Church leadership would realize that being partisan has driven away lots of people from our church. I stick around because I love the liturgy and don't want my faith to be comfortable to me. I want to have my beliefs challenged and my heart softened and changed.  I have to battle my biases, upbringing and sick mind. 

I watched it live. The crowd in Lafayette Park, which was peaceful, was gassed and fired on with rubber bullets prior to curfew. They also expelled a Priest and Seminarian from the churchyard.

There's nothing partisan about the Episcopal Church. Clergy takes stands on social and economic issues because it has to, because it's our job, yours and mine. 

You're making excuses. Your choices here are God (and the Constitution) or Ceasar. 

 

 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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mdmost

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From the Rector of St John's Church in Georgetown who was gassed as she was helping render aid to protesters.

12 hrs · Public
Friends, I am ok, but I am, frankly shaken. I was at St. John's, Lafayette Square most of the afternoon, with fellow clergy and laypeople - and clergy from some other denominations too. We were passing out water and snacks, and helping the patio area at St. John's, Lafayette square to be a place of respite and peace. All was well - with a few little tense moments - until about 6:15 or so. By then, I had connected with the Black Lives Matter medic team, which was headed by an EMT. Those people were AMAZING. They had been on the patio all day, and thankfully had not had to use much of the eyewash they had made. Around 6:15 or 6:30, the police started really pushing protestors off of H Street (the street between the church and Lafayette Park, and ultimately, the White House. They started using tear gas and folks were running at us for eyewashes or water or wet paper towels. At this point, Julia, one of our seminarians for next year (who is a trauma nurse) and I looked at each other in disbelief. I was coughing, her eyes were watering, and we were trying to help people as the police - in full riot gear - drove people toward us. Julia and her classmates left and I stayed with the BLM folks trying to help people. Suddenly, around 6:30, there was more tear gas, more concussion grenades, and I think I saw someone hit by a rubber bullet - he was grasping his stomach and there was a mark on his shirt. The police in their riot gear were literally walking onto the St. John's, Lafayette Square patio with these metal shields, pushing people off the patio and driving them back. People were running at us as the police advanced toward us from the other side of the patio. We had to try to pick up what we could. The BLM medic folks were obviously well practiced. They picked up boxes and ran. I was so stunned I only got a few water bottles and my spray bottle of eyewash. We were literally DRIVEN OFF of the St. John's, Lafayette Square patio with tear gas and concussion grenades and police in full riot gear. We were pushed back 20 feet, and then eventually - with SO MANY concussion grenades - back to K street. By the time I got back to my car, around 7, I was getting texts from people saying that Trump was outside of St. John's, Lafayette Square. I literally COULD NOT believe it. WE WERE DRIVEN OFF OF THE PATIO AT ST. JOHN'S - a place of peace and respite and medical care throughout the day - SO THAT MAN COULD HAVE A PHOTO OPPORTUNITY IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH!!! PEOPLE WERE HURT SO THAT HE COULD POSE IN FRONT OF THE CHURCH WITH A BIBLE! HE WOULD HAVE HAD TO STEP OVER THE MEDICAL SUPPLIES WE LEFT BEHIND BECAUSE WE WERE BEING TEAR GASSED!!!!
I am deeply shaken. I did not see any protestors throw anything until the tear gas and concussion grenades started, and then it was mostly water bottles. I am shaken, not so much by the taste of tear gas and the bit of a cough I still have, but by the fact that that show of force was for a PHOTO OPPORTUNITY. The patio of St. John's, Lafayette square had been HOLY GROUND today. A place of respite and laughter and water and granola bars and fruit snacks. But that man turned it into a BATTLE GROUND first, and a cheap political stunt second. I am DEEPLY OFFENDED on behalf of every protestor, every Christian, the people of St. John's, Lafayette square, every decent person there, and the BLM medics who stayed with just a single box of supplies and a backpack, even when I got too scared and had to leave. I am ok. But I am now a force to be reckoned with.
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OU Sucks

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1 hour ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Right such as the fact that the crowd was ordered to disperse to comply with the curfew. The order was ignored. Watching CNN last night there was not a mention of this in order to try to frame things as an unprovoked, unannounced violent crowd dispersal.

"As Mr. Trump delivered a speech in the Rose Garden vowing to send the military to states where governors could not bring rioting under control but calling himself “an ally of all peaceful protesters,” the sound of explosions and the yells of demonstrators could be heard. After receiving repeated warnings to disperse before the city’s curfew, the crowd was tear-gassed."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/01/us/politics/trump-st-johns-church-bible.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage

I am not surprised but disappointed in the Bishop of DC's comments. It is what I have come to expect from our church leadership. At least our Presiding Bishop was less inflammatory in his denunciation. It would be nice if the Episcopal Church leadership would realize that being partisan has driven away lots of people from our church. I stick around because I love the liturgy and don't want my faith to be comfortable to me. I want to have my beliefs challenged and my heart softened and changed.  I have to battle my biases, upbringing and sick mind. 

 

 

moved to new thread by Blacklab as it's clogging up the main thread

You keep on finding ways to defend this.  First, you kept on implying these protestors were looting and rioting -- having not even watched any of it unfold.  Then you said even if they didn't, the previous nights were violent, so therefore it was fine to shoot at these peaceful protestors because the threat existed (okay, so I'm sure you agree that all cops are threats to kill innocent people, based on actions of these 4 -- and countless other examples).  Now you're taking police at their word that they gave repeated warnings and ignore the fact that it was still 30 minutes before the curfew.  Why were they shot and driven back by horses before the curfew?  All so the president could get an awkward photo op to try to grow his base of supporters, that's why.  There was zero reason why the president had to give a speech outside or walk over to the church.  Zero.  Give the speech inside and take photos somewhere else.

Edited by OU Sucks
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SydneyCarton

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People can be on either side of the riot vs. protest debate, within a certain level of reasonable understanding. I can even understand (to a degree) the folks who are perfectly fine using pro-active force to clear streets because there have been  days of riots and at some level the rubber meets the road. That isn't personally my belief, but I can see where others might believe that. Lots of governors and mayors have set bad curfew times, and haven't been perfectly clear in responsible ways to communicate to the protesters what is going to happen and when. Fine. 

But this shit yesterday is indefensible and beyond the pale, and people like Icono are just willful wrongheaded fascists reveling in shows of power and strength because they're sick people (his words, not mine). The protesters were peaceful. They were asked to move, despite it being nowhere near curfew, despite being peaceful, and when they didn't disperse they were gassed and peppered with concussion grenades. That's bullshit, it's a breach of the constitution. But what is really indefensible, and what even Icono and like minded folks can't gloss over, much less address with their "but but it was violent yesterday" prattling bullshit is that all of this was done so the President could could walk across the street for a photo op. And an insincere one at that. THE REASONS AND CHOICES THAT LED TO THIS EVENT MATTER. It wasn't dispersing a violent crowd. It wasn't to get to a trapped person in need of help. It was for a fucking picture. The motivation for the incident is 50x more heinous than the action itself, and the action is pretty fucking deplorable. 

I don't care what side of the political spectrum you tilt towards, the man gassed and forcibly removed demonstrators for a completely unnecessary photo op. That was his choice. He chose to do that to US citizens to sate whatever need he felt he had to walk across the street and take a picture at a church. He could have waited a day, and given more notice. He didn't even call the people at the church. If it was prayer he could have chosen a different venue. If it was some display, as president, there are thousands of other photo ops he could have constructed and executed on that didn't involve terrorizing his own citizens who are flexing their constitutional rights. So many other choices or opportunities, and he chose to attack his own citizens. That isn't leadership. And honestly, thats not what America needs. It needs common ground and respect and healing, and compromise, and that is the epitome of non compromise. That is brute force to get what you want. It's against everything that a democratic republic is supposed to be, and it just galvanizes folks on both sides into a negative collision course. This isn't how we should treat people, period, and the leader of our country providing an example of choosing to embrace violence as opposed to try and de-escalate is just keeping people in their own foxholes and helps fix nothing in this country. 

If two cars were blocking a street would you ram them with your car, because they're in your way, or would you find another route? If you rammed them, do you reasonably think you wouldn't be the one arrested? Would you treat your neighbor this way? I assume the answer is no, but if the answer is Yes, then I hope you never have a neighbor like you. We need to do better as people. We have to. And we need to look to ourselves to be the example because none of our political leaders are clearly setting one themselves. Just be nice to each other. 

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Moby Ric

Moby Ric 2058

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7 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Politics and religion all rolled into one.  And this is in DT?

Welcome to the new surly.  Nothing matters anymore.  Anybody want to talk Korean baseball or do I go to the help thread for that one.  Or is it lulz, I forget.

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Anastasis

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1 minute ago, Neonmoon said:

I guess I don't understand why a thread discussing Trump is in the DT forum

It got moved out of the DT thread because that thread turned into an absolutely monkey fucked abortion last night. 

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SydneyCarton

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3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

It got moved out of the DT thread because that thread turned into an absolutely monkey fucked abortion last night. 

Neon just suggesting this thread should be in CR, not DT. Not arguing against moving it out of the Minnesota thread, just that this thread also needs ot move to another forum. 

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Js1

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

It got moved out of the DT thread because that thread turned into an absolutely monkey fucked abortion last night. 

And should have been moved to CR. Or it’s going to make that abortion look like an abortion performed while in a moving vehicle crashing into a concrete pillar. 

Or do the mods give Icono a pass but no one else bc he chose self exile? 

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Brisketexan

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15 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

People can be on either side of the riot vs. protest debate, within a certain level of reasonable understanding. I can even understand (to a degree) the folks who are perfectly fine using pro-active force to clear streets because there have been  days of riots and at some level the rubber meets the road. That isn't personally my belief, but I can see where others might believe that. Lots of governors and mayors have set bad curfew times, and haven't been perfectly clear in responsible ways to communicate to the protesters what is going to happen and when. Fine. 

But this shit yesterday is indefensible and beyond the pale, and people like Icono are just willful wrongheaded fascists reveling in shows of power and strength because they're sick people (his words, not mine). The protesters were peaceful. They were asked to move, despite it being nowhere near curfew, despite being peaceful, and when they didn't disperse they were gassed and peppered with concussion grenades. That's bullshit, it's a breach of the constitution. But what is really indefensible, and what even Icono and like minded folks can't gloss over, much less address with their "but but it was violent yesterday" prattling bullshit is that all of this was done so the President could could walk across the street for a photo op. And an insincere one at that. THE REASONS AND CHOICES THAT LED TO THIS EVENT MATTER. It wasn't dispersing a violent crowd. It wasn't to get to a trapped person in need of help. It was for a fucking picture. The motivation for the incident is 50x more heinous than the action itself, and the action is pretty fucking deplorable. 

I don't care what side of the political spectrum you tilt towards, the man gassed and forcibly removed demonstrators for a completely unnecessary photo op. That was his choice. He chose to do that to US citizens to sate whatever need he felt he had to walk across the street and take a picture at a church. He could have waited a day, and given more notice. He didn't even call the people at the church. If it was prayer he could have chosen a different venue. If it was some display, as president, there are thousands of other photo ops he could have constructed and executed on that didn't involve terrorizing his own citizens who are flexing their constitutional rights. So many other choices or opportunities, and he chose to attack his own citizens. That isn't leadership. And honestly, thats not what America needs. It needs common ground and respect and healing, and compromise, and that is the epitome of non compromise. That is brute force to get what you want. It's against everything that a democratic republic is supposed to be, and it just galvanizes folks on both sides into a negative collision course. This isn't how we should treat people, period, and the leader of our country providing an example of choosing to embrace violence as opposed to try and de-escalate is just keeping people in their own foxholes and helps fix nothing in this country. 

If two cars were blocking a street would you ram them with your car, because they're in your way, or would you find another route? If you rammed them, do you reasonably think you wouldn't be the one arrested? Would you treat your neighbor this way? I assume the answer is no, but if the answer is Yes, then I hope you never have a neighbor like you. We need to do better as people. We have to. And we need to look to ourselves to be the example because none of our political leaders are clearly setting one themselves. Just be nice to each other. 

I wish I could rep this twice.

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Captain Ron

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31 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

People can be on either side of the riot vs. protest debate, within a certain level of reasonable understanding. I can even understand (to a degree) the folks who are perfectly fine using pro-active force to clear streets because there have been  days of riots and at some level the rubber meets the road. That isn't personally my belief, but I can see where others might believe that. Lots of governors and mayors have set bad curfew times, and haven't been perfectly clear in responsible ways to communicate to the protesters what is going to happen and when. Fine. 

But this shit yesterday is indefensible and beyond the pale, and people like Icono are just willful wrongheaded fascists reveling in shows of power and strength because they're sick people (his words, not mine). The protesters were peaceful. They were asked to move, despite it being nowhere near curfew, despite being peaceful, and when they didn't disperse they were gassed and peppered with concussion grenades. That's bullshit, it's a breach of the constitution. But what is really indefensible, and what even Icono and like minded folks can't gloss over, much less address with their "but but it was violent yesterday" prattling bullshit is that all of this was done so the President could could walk across the street for a photo op. And an insincere one at that. THE REASONS AND CHOICES THAT LED TO THIS EVENT MATTER. It wasn't dispersing a violent crowd. It wasn't to get to a trapped person in need of help. It was for a fucking picture. The motivation for the incident is 50x more heinous than the action itself, and the action is pretty fucking deplorable. 

I don't care what side of the political spectrum you tilt towards, the man gassed and forcibly removed demonstrators for a completely unnecessary photo op. That was his choice. He chose to do that to US citizens to sate whatever need he felt he had to walk across the street and take a picture at a church. He could have waited a day, and given more notice. He didn't even call the people at the church. If it was prayer he could have chosen a different venue. If it was some display, as president, there are thousands of other photo ops he could have constructed and executed on that didn't involve terrorizing his own citizens who are flexing their constitutional rights. So many other choices or opportunities, and he chose to attack his own citizens. That isn't leadership. And honestly, thats not what America needs. It needs common ground and respect and healing, and compromise, and that is the epitome of non compromise. That is brute force to get what you want. It's against everything that a democratic republic is supposed to be, and it just galvanizes folks on both sides into a negative collision course. This isn't how we should treat people, period, and the leader of our country providing an example of choosing to embrace violence as opposed to try and de-escalate is just keeping people in their own foxholes and helps fix nothing in this country. 

If two cars were blocking a street would you ram them with your car, because they're in your way, or would you find another route? If you rammed them, do you reasonably think you wouldn't be the one arrested? Would you treat your neighbor this way? I assume the answer is no, but if the answer is Yes, then I hope you never have a neighbor like you. We need to do better as people. We have to. And we need to look to ourselves to be the example because none of our political leaders are clearly setting one themselves. Just be nice to each other. 

This, I can't say it better than this.

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Bozo_Casanova

Bozo_Casanova 26279

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41 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I guess I don't understand why a thread discussing Trump is in the DT forum

Me neither, to be honest, I suspect to keep the other thread from getting worse. To me the nexus of that topic and this are 

1) Police force used against peaceful protesters prior to curfew and without warning in clear, literal violation of the first amendment to enable
2) The profaning of sacred symbols and sanctified ground, and
3) All that in to take a stand for "law and order"

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GHOSTUSER

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I respect the office of the Presidency first and foremost. Our President is the personification of this great country and has to have freedom of movement. Look how he weak he would look if he was holed up there during the duration of these protests.

Honest question. What is the issue? Questioning the purpose of his visit? He needs permission from the mob now. Or is it the methods used to disburse which were non-lethal. Because YOU might not agree with the purpose of his visit does not in any way deter from the legitimacy and right he has as the President to address the nation and reassert order. Personally, I think this was stupid of him and it backfired.   

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TwiceHorn

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Just now, Iconoclast Texan said:

I respect the office of the Presidency first and foremost. Our President is the personification of this great country and has to have freedom of movement. Look how he weak he would look if he was holed up there during the duration of these protests.

Honest question. What is the issue? Questioning the purpose of his visit? He needs permission from the mob now. Or is it the methods used to disburse which were non-lethal. Because YOU might not agree with the purpose of his visit does not in any way deter from the legitimacy and right he has as the President to address the nation and reassert order. Personally, I think this was stupid of him and it backfired.   

He looks weak because he is weak.

Trump has no respect for the office he holds, so why should you respect the officeholder?

If he had done something productive, that served any interest other than his own in front of St. John's church, this might be justifiable.  He didn't address the nation, he took a fucking selfie.

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Js1

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

He looks weak because he is weak.

Trump has no respect for the office he holds, so why should you respect the officeholder?

If he had done something productive, that served any interest other than his own in front of St. John's church, this might be justifiable.  He didn't address the nation, he took a fucking selfie.

“I respect the office” is what every Trump supporter who shit all over Obama says now. Trust, they’d be enraged if it was Hillary with ZERO respect for the office. 

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SydneyCarton

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7 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

I respect the office of the Presidency first and foremost. Our President is the personification of this great country and has to have freedom of movement. Look how he weak he would look if he was holed up there during the duration of these protests.

Honest question. What is the issue? Questioning the purpose of his visit? He needs permission from the mob now. Or is it the methods used to disburse which were non-lethal. Because YOU might not agree with the purpose of his visit does not in any way deter from the legitimacy and right he has as the President to address the nation and reassert order. Personally, I think this was stupid of him and it backfired.   

Yeah. Fuck you, you're a piece of shit. The president is OUR fucking employee. Our freedoms are the whole point of this fucking country, and having a leader in charge who tramples on it at his fucking whim to show strength, is literally the fucking opposite of what a democratic republic is supposed to be about. Him looking powerful is the mentality and acts of authoritarian dictatorships.  It's china running tanks over their citizens, it's putin on a fucking horse bare chested. The point of his office is to protect our freedoms not HIM being able to look powerful. Fuck you, and fuck your backwards ass fascist view of life in the country and the value of human life in general. I wish you'd go back to mainlining meth and dicks because at least then the only person you were hurting was yourself and your ex wife. Ever since you adopted Jesus and Fascism your viewpoints have a much greater chance of hurting the other people in this country. 

My issue is all of it. My issue is his show of force, my issue is the motivation for his show of force, and my issue is what that says about his decision making and his value for US citizens and their constitutional and human rights. Things you wipe your fucking ass with, so I don't expect you to fucking understand. Meanwhile the irony of you wringing your fucking hands a few weeks ago about not being allowed to show up and go to church and your free right to assemble as a Christian is looking pretty fucking ironic right about now, not that you'd recognize the hypocrisy there. You were apoplectic about the restrictions being enacted then on your "freedoms" even though they were putting the lives of others at risk. I wonder how you'd have felt if a local constable had decided to break up a church gathering by tear gassing a congregation that was gathering against shelter in place orders. You'd have lost your fucking mind. But this? Yeah, doesn't even register to you because Freedom doesn't mean shit to you as a construct unless it's your personal preferences being stifled. The safety and lives of others so Trump can get a selfie though? Fuck those losers. /Icono. 

Edited by SydneyCarton
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mdmost

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To keep this in here and to keep the NO CR people at bay, let's avoid discussion on the merits of Trump or Obama as President. This is about the actual news story that a sitting President used tear gas on peaceful protesters to walk to a church to get a 3 minute photo op. If this thread frightens your delicate sensibilities, see your way out. 

Edited by mdmost
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Eastwood

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There was still 15 - 20 minutes left until curfew was active. That means nobody there was breaking the law, yet. Authoritarian types like to focus on that word. "Yet." They weren't law breakers now, but they're about to be. Therefore, they deserve everything that is about to happen to them. Presumed guilt goes against everything that this country was founded on and has no place in our society. I'm sure a lot of us here grew up in a house where the parents didn't wait until we officially broke a rule and went ahead and punished us before the fact. Curfew is a perfect example. Be home by 10:30, found out we are 10 minutes away at 10:25, and they punish you over the phone. That's fine for a household, but due to the immense harm a "punishment before crime" standard would have on society, it cannot be tolerated.

Icono is avid fan of dictators, extreme uses of force, and heavy handed governing. He has openly admitted this several times through his now decade long existence in this community. So I already know what his response to my post will be.

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Mitch Cumsteen

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2 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

I respect the office of the Presidency first and foremost. Our President is the personification of this great country and has to have freedom of movement. Look how he weak he would look if he was holed up there during the duration of these protests.

This is a great point. Nothing shows how strong you are as a President by tear gassing and inflicting pain on non-violent, law abiding citizens exercising their constitutional rights so you can go take an awkward photo in front of a church while holding a bible. I am 100% sure that I have never felt this level of respect for the office of the Presidency, first and foremost.

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GHOSTUSER

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

He looks weak because he is weak.

Trump has no respect for the office he holds, so why should you respect the officeholder?

If he had done something productive, that served any interest other than his own in front of St. John's church, this might be justifiable.  He didn't address the nation, he took a fucking selfie.

It was not a good look. Still if the President of our country no matter who it is intends to use his office by walking from the White House to make an address, he should be able to do so safely. Are you assuming that the President would have been safe and his protection team would be doing their job to allowed that crowd to remain. You don't think for a second that crowds gathered for 4 nights straight in front of the White House that led to violence would not get amped up even more by those wanting to physically harm him. It is not fascist to want the President of the US to be safe and to carry it his duties. I won't shed a tear for those ordered to disperse and willfully refused. Who said civil disobedience would not come with a cost to those seeking this avenue. Our recent history points that the side of law and order has always carried the day and support of the silent majority.

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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GHOSTUSER

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7 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Yeah. Fuck you, you're a piece of shit. The president is OUR fucking employee. Our freedoms are the whole point of this fucking country, and having a leader in charge who tramples on it at his fucking whim to show strength, is literally the fucking opposite of what a democratic republic is supposed to be about. Him looking powerful is the mentality and acts of authoritarian dictatorships.  It's china running tanks over their citizens, it's putin on a fucking horse bare chested. The point of his office is to protect our freedoms not HIM being able to look powerful. Fuck you, and fuck your backwards ass fascist view of life in the country and the value of human life in general. I wish you'd go back to mainlining meth and dicks becuase at least then the only person you were hurting was yourself and your ex wife. Ever since you adopted Jesus and Fascism your viewpoints have a much greater chance of hurting the other people in this country. 

My issue is all of it. My issue is his show of force, my issue is the motivation for his show of force, and my issue is what that says about his decision making and his value for US citizens and their constitutional and human rights. Things you wipe your fucking ass with, so I don't expect you to fucking understand. 

We will make sure to have the Presidents from now on clear their calendar with you going forward. If his motorcade comes under attack by a horde of protesters it is fascist to clear the way for him. We are under mob rule now. Fuck that. It was not a good look. That's my piece.

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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Sbbruin

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40 minutes ago, Armybrat said:

Trump and church in the same topic does not compute.

He looked like an ape who had found a shiny object holding that bible.  He was simultaneously intrigued and bewildered by this object.  What mysteries does it hold?  But his mind was too feeble to dig any deeper.

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mdmost

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7 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

It was not a good look. Still if the President of our country no matter who it is intends to use his office by walking from the White House to make an address, he should be able to do so safely. Are you assuming that the President would have been safe and his protection team would be doing their job to allowed that crowd to remain. You don't think for a second that crowds gathered for 4 nights straight in front of the White House that led to violence would not get amped up even more by those wanting to physically harm him. It is not fascist to want the President of the US to be safe and to carry it his duties. I won't shed a tear for those ordered to disperse and willfully refused. Who said civil disobedience would not come with a cost to those seeking this avenue. Our recent history points that the side of law and order has always carried the day and support of the silent majority.

He made an address in the Rose Garden. Behind gates, with snipers, Park Police, National Guard and Military Police standing between him and the protesters. He was never in danger. He wanted a show of force. Something you'd see in China, Iran, Iraq, and other places we claim our country is better than. He wanted to show he could use the power of our police and military for whatever purposes he wants. 

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Sbbruin

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18 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

I respect the office of the Presidency first and foremost. Our President is the personification of this great country and has to have freedom of movement. Look how he weak he would look if he was holed up there during the duration of these protests.

Honest question. What is the issue? Questioning the purpose of his visit? He needs permission from the mob now. Or is it the methods used to disburse which were non-lethal. Because YOU might not agree with the purpose of his visit does not in any way deter from the legitimacy and right he has as the President to address the nation and reassert order. Personally, I think this was stupid of him and it backfired.   

His wanton and blatant abuse of the office has lost him any right of respect.  He uses it to stroke his own ego, nothing more, nothing less.  He's incapable of anything else.  No decision is considered as to how it might benefit the people, only how it might benefit himself and his reelection.  He views division as a weapon to be used to froth up his base. He is the single most destructive force in this nation right now, and it is not even close.

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