Question for Ex-GOP/Never Trump Moderate Types

[gmr548 16512]

The migration of primarily suburban and white moderates to the Democratic party since 2016 has caused a huge shift in American politics. I've participated in and read a lot of discussion on here recently on how this group is going to behave - and I think it's a really interesting topic because this group is going to be pivotal in elections in the 2020s. 

So I have a question for our resident Surly ex-GOP/Never Trump/newly minted moderate Democrats: How long do you anticipate sticking around?

Have you decided to never vote for a Republican again until everyone acting as an enabler of the current administration has been purged? Do you consider that last sentence to be ideal, but ultimately will vote GOP to stop big progressive policies like Medicare For All, the Green New Deal, or a significant tax increase on upper income earners and/or corporations? Is it really that Trump is just an asshole or a moron, and a Romney/Rubio type with a pretty similar policy agenda could get your vote in 2024?

Also, is there a difference in how you'll approach federal elections vs state and/or local?

I am not asking this to shame anyone, hence the anonymous poll. A good chunk of my CR shitposting is playing armchair election analyst. Given that this bloc is going to be really crucial for both parties over the foreseeable future, and the variety in th limited viewpoints I have seen expressed, I am just really interested to take the temperature of GOP defectors.

I added some basic poll options, but please feel free to elaborate in a post. Thanks for your insight, I'll hang up and listen

[Hookah Horns 3080]

Don't see myself ever voting for a Republican again. At least not unless the Dems get taken over by an evil piece of shit like a Trump. 

I'm going to hold a grudge. 

[Horn Dogg 3808]

I have 2 objectives for the way I vote in this election.

1. Get rid of Trump

2. Punish the rest of the republicans for not standing up to that asshole

I may vote republican I’m the future, but it’s going to have to be a whole new set of candidates.

[TexasEd 8064]

Won't vote for any enabler of trump.  If they did not vote for impeachment or removal not getting my vote.

I live in an R held congressional seat and sent him a letter promising I'd campaign against him if he did not break ranks.  So you know how that went.

Edited June 4, 2020 by TexasEd

[TexArcher 37508]

This thread warms my independent heart already.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

Basically just sick of promoting stupidity. If some GHWB-esque person was around in the right environment, I might vote for him, but that right environment would mean 80% of Trump's sycophantic senate was gone so that it wasn't a de facto hand over of power back to the same tards. So basically there is no such thing as a good Republican so long as the bulk of *other* Republicans are this bad and Republicanism is party over everything every time. My guess is that is at least a decade away.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

Never Trump- not a moderate, not going over to Dems so I’m not sure if my input is warranted but...

not voting for anyone who bent the knee for Trump. I guess that puts Paul Ryan at the head of my list. You could tell the entire time he was like a hostage doing a proof of life video. 

Wont vote Dem but perfectly willing to sit any election out or vote third party when warranted. 

I wouldn’t expect to be voting GOP at the top of the ticket before 2028 at the earliest, but I suppose they could surprise me in some way. 

[bad_teammate 13132]

Needs "will never vote for another Republican again, regardless" option.

[safe sex 11678]

People who are Never Trump, but WON'T vote against him make no sense to me. Don't you want to be rid of him? Good Lord, help the effort.

[RomaVicta 29784]

I can't vote in this poll, but it's a good question. It could also serve to show the Trumpists just how many ex GOPs have been driven from that party.

[Bookman 4610]

I really can't see myself voting Republican for awhile, certainly not anyone associated in any manner with Donald Trump. That shit has to be purged from our country.

[DigglerontheHoof 21061]

Fuck 'em.  Me walking away from the Republican party

[Walser 1106]

I was GOP up until it came time to vote for the second term of GWB. I'm pretty ashamed of having been duped by their myths for a long time. It would take a lot for me to ever consider voting red again.

-Climate change is real

-We have a health system crisis

-Our policing needs reform

-Gun violence is out of control

-The tax system is going in the wrong direction and furthering the class divide

-Education needs to be overhauled

-Etc

Not only has the GOP willfully ignored self-evident issues, they seem to be determined to go in the wrong direction. Somehow it also astonished me how easily R leaders bent the knee and looked the other way WRT to Trump's behavior. Shameful.

You bring up a good point on local vs. national elections. I will definitely be more involved and better informed starting at the local level going forward.

Signed,

-MIddle-age middle-class gun-owning truck-driving white male Texan

[BradInATX 9208]

I haven't really even considered voting Republican at the top of the ticket in a long time, since Bush's first term, but I've had some scattered Republican votes for state and local offices over the years. So my vote wasn't super-gettable to begin with. But I'll be voting straight ticket Democrat without any consideration for individual candidates until every bit of stench of Trump is gone. That means every senator currently serving save maybe Romney gone, every house Republican that has enabled him gone, etc. Any shred of support or enablement of Trump by any candidate on any level will be an automatic disqualifier. 

So it's going to be a really, really long time. The only scenario I see really considering Republicans is if we get to a point where "Democrats" are really the people who are currently the far-progressive wing of the Democratic party and the "Republicans" are basically blue dogs. But I don't see that happening; maybe socially, but probably not fiscally and governance wise. 

So they can all EABOD.

[TwiceHorn 31274]

Remains to be seen.  I'd like to see some of the conservatives that were vocally against Trump try to do something different.  From both Trump and what the GOP had become before him.

[CooterBrown 17907]

People who are Never Trump, but WON'T vote against him make no sense to me. Don't you want to be rid of him? Good Lord, help the effort.

Those are party first folks. They like to say they wouldn’t vote for Hitler but if the party memo tells them to, they’ll snuggle up in his lap like a good obedient bitch.

[BradInATX 9208]

I'm really interested to see what happens in the coming decade. Given the militant drooling loyalty that GOP voters have towards Trump, is the party going to be beholden to Trumpism even after he's gone? Are they going to have to do the same thing they still do for Reagan and treat a senile, classist, racist piece of shit as some sort of party demi-god? Where you have to bend the knee and slob on the orange knob to have any chance to win a primary? If so, that's going to be kind of interesting because over the next decade, demographics and boomers dying is going to make him hugely unpopular as a whole, where Reagan was not. Could put the Republicans in a really tough spot (fuck 'em). 

I see a lot of people predicting that the party will run from Trump as soon as they can. I don't see their base letting them do that. And if that's the case, they may never get the never-Trumpers and moderate conservatives back.

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by BradInATX

[Bateshorn 9899]

If you live in Massachusetts and can’t bring yourself to vote Dem,  okay, I get it.

if you are in Texas or another swing state, then you are defacto voting for the GOP.  
Especially if you are white, where your voting rights are probably not going to be challenged/contested.

Don’t deluded yourself into thinking you are some profile in courage. Democracy is on the line. Silence equals consent and complicity. 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Bateshorn

[Bookman 4610]

1 hour ago, Walser said:

I was GOP up until it came time to vote for the second term of GWB. I'm pretty ashamed of having been duped by their myths for a long time. It would take a lot for me to ever consider voting red again.

-Climate change is real

-We have a health system crisis

-Our policing needs reform

-Gun violence is out of control

-The tax system is going in the wrong direction and furthering the class divide

-Education needs to be overhauled

-Etc

Not only has the GOP willfully ignored self-evident issues, they seem to be determined to go in the wrong direction. Somehow it also astonished me how easily R leaders bent the knee and looked the other way WRT to Trump's behavior. Shameful.

You bring up a good point on local vs. national elections. I will definitely be more involved and better informed starting at the local level going forward.

Signed,

-MIddle-age middle-class gun-owning truck-driving white male Texan

I agree with all of this. I'd also like to see legal weed in Texas.

[TornACL 7675]

At this point it is my firm opinion that a complete and utter rebuke of any politician who supported Trump's agenda, either vocally or through their silence, is necessary for the future viability of the country as we know it. 

This is a cancer that has to be cut out completely, or it will return packaged in a future leader who may not be so hopelessly incompetent. 

I was a Republican voter until Palin joined the McCain ticket. But typically would lean R in any downticket races. 

Those days are over for the foreseeable future.

[Hiphopopotamos 20865]

I'll never vote for another republican again.  Trump has completely rearranged my political priorities - he made me take a real close look at myself and things that should be important to me.   

If the party I formerly supported could elect a guy like that - well that's not a party (or people) I could ever support again.

[TwiceHorn 31274]

4 minutes ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

Trump has completely rearranged my political priorities - he made me take a real close look at myself and things that should be important to me.   

Troof.

I have also realized that the GOP simply wishes to turn back the clock to an idealized era that never really existed.  It not only sucked for POC, it wasn't that great for whitey, either.  And that is not a plausible political position.  That is not what conservatism is or should be about.

It's going to take a massive overhaul of the party and platform before I ever reliably vote GOP again.  

Edited June 4, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Macanudo 12926]

I started voting in 1988 and had voted for the R for president until 2008.  I sat out 2008-2016 after apathy set in.  From 1988-2004, I had however never done a straight ticket.  There was always a D here and there that I voted for.  I had also never done any campaigning, donated to anyone's campaign or even put up a yard sign.

In 2020, I'm voting a straight D ticket.  I've donated to Biden's campaign and will look into volunteering with his local campaign. 

Because of Trump.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

1 hour ago, Walser said:

I was GOP up until it came time to vote for the second term of GWB. I'm pretty ashamed of having been duped by their myths for a long time. It would take a lot for me to ever consider voting red again.

-Climate change is real

-We have a health system crisis

-Our policing needs reform

-Gun violence is out of control

-The tax system is going in the wrong direction and furthering the class divide

-Education needs to be overhauled

-Etc

Not only has the GOP willfully ignored self-evident issues, they seem to be determined to go in the wrong direction. Somehow it also astonished me how easily R leaders bent the knee and looked the other way WRT to Trump's behavior. Shameful.

You bring up a good point on local vs. national elections. I will definitely be more involved and better informed starting at the local level going forward.

Signed,

-MIddle-age middle-class gun-owning truck-driving white male Texan

Someone above asked why I wouldn’t vote dem. This isn’t meant as an argument, but I don’t see more than about 1.2 of these I agree with. 

I’m never trump because he’s a loathsome asshole but I disagree with pretty much all Dem policy, so a vote for them is as antithetical to me as a vote for

Trump. This guy I quoted is sort of a Dem at heart that didn’t realize it until Trump made him reconsider. 

That’s a big difference between us. 

Thanks Walser- I quoted you but I’m basically talking to Trama Babe. 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

1 hour ago, CooterBrown said:

Those are party first folks. They like to say they wouldn’t vote for Hitler but if the party memo tells them to, they’ll snuggle up in his lap like a good obedient bitch.

That’s actually completely backwards man. If you were party person then you vote for him because that’s what the party tells you to do. 

For me it’s like being a conscientious objector. I won’t vote for anyone who has issues that are morally repugnant to me. Trumps entire existence I find morally repugnant as do I find large swaths of the Dem platform. 

Also, you guys really really really get more fired up about this voting thing than really matters. Your vote doesn’t matter. Period. Full stop. Elections are not decided by a vote. 

[Celery Man 20886]

Not sure if I quite fit the description but I've voted for GOP and dem presidential candidates (before voting for Hillary) and will always vote against any person who is currently a republican. Any person who was a republican at any point from maybe 2017 - now/some undetermined point in the future, I will vote for their opponent if they are on a ballot I'm able to cast.

[Macanudo 12926]

Yeah, what celery said about current Rs.  I doubt I'd vote for anyone who was in any way associated with Trump.

 

 

  I mean maybe if they were running against Mack Brown.  😎

[safe sex 11678]

Just now, Wulaw Horn said:

Someone above asked why I wouldn’t vote dem. This isn’t meant as an argument, but I don’t see more than about 1.2 of these I agree with. 

I’m never trump because he’s a loathsome asshole but I disagree with pretty much all Dem policy, so a vote for them is as antithetical to me as a vote for

Trump. This guy I quoted is sort of a Dem at heart that didn’t realize it until Trump made him reconsider. 

That’s a big difference between us. 

Thanks Walser- I quoted you but I’m basically talking to Trama Babe. 

You're in luck, though! The democrats have a pretty well established modern history of supporting liberal democracy, however flawed, over fascism. Surely that is a policy position that you can agree with. So, to be frank, that should be enough wiggle room for literally any person in the world to be able to vote for Joe Biden and feel like their conscience is clear. This election is not about voting for Joe Biden. 

Do you know how I spent a good chunk of my shift last night? Sucking blood out of a young adult's mouth, around their breathing tube, while they had a seizure. The "less lethal" ammo that APD deployed against the group they were a part of, peacefully protesting over the weekend, cracked the skull open and caused massive brain trauma. Their skull was taken apart and put back together a few days later. This person, this child of an Austinite, this not-yet-fully-grown human being will spend the next significant portion of their life having either a tube shoved up their urethra at regular intervals or piss themselves—all the while being hooked up to monitors and IV poles, getting CT after CT. An MRI or two. Then after a prolonged time on a ventilator, because of the brain trauma, they're not able to maintain their own airway, so a tracheostomy is performed. Soon thereafter, a permanent feeding tube is surgically placed into the stomach. They can't communicate in any meaningful way. You see, all they will do during this time is shit themselves, piss themselves, and show just enough signs of life to keep their family's hopes alive.

This is Donald Trump's America.

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by trauma babe

[safe sex 11678]

I promise that in four years after Joe Biden's inauguration, you will have a chance to vote against him.

[Bateshorn 9899]

53 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

That’s actually completely backwards man. If you were party person then you vote for him because that’s what the party tells you to do. 

For me it’s like being a conscientious objector. I won’t vote for anyone who has issues that are morally repugnant to me. Trumps entire existence I find morally repugnant as do I find large swaths of the Dem platform. 

Also, you guys really really really get more fired up about this voting thing than really matters. Your vote doesn’t matter. Period. Full stop. Elections are not decided by a vote. 

Don’t deluded yourself.  Nobody here thinks of you as a conscious objector.

You’re the dude who stayed silent when they took away your neighbors.  Even though you knew it was wrong.

Also, your privilege is showing.

Edited June 4, 2020 by Bateshorn

[tantric superman 4667]

I fully believe that by July this debate will be transformed fully into a "reparations" or "no reparations", with progressives aligned with cash checks, with moderates feeling that we should have labeled it "increased opportunities" instead of reparations, and soft never Trumpers fully going back to the "lesser of two evils" in the Republican Party. 

The sentence we will hear from the folks who will vote for Trump are "I completely agree with blacks have been discriminated against in this country, especially by the police, but ________________________.

(Oh, and I believe that the covid and the economy will be a wash.  People simply aren't going to vote on the state of the economy.)

 

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

10 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

Don’t deluded yourself.  Nobody here thinks of you as a conscious objector.

You’re the dude who stayed silent when they took away your neighbors.  Even though you knew it was wrong.

Also, your privilege is showing.

Cool. I'm not going to derail this thread anymore, as I said I don't know if I even fit here other than being a Never Trumper who literally stopped voting for anyone in the GOP who supported him, full stop, and won't vote for anyone in the GOP in the future who supported him.  That's what I take Never Trump to mean.  So, I answered where I was at and don't need to derail anymore.  Mark me, and anyone who doesn't vote Dem, as either a Nazi or Nazi sympathizer if that's what you need to do. 

[Irwin F Fletcher 3550]

I've stated in another thread that I basically hold a scorched earth policy against any current GOP member that supports or enabled Trump. Today I actively contribute financially and help campaign for anyone in my district who is running against a Trump enabler (Sima for Congress, Hegar for Senate and Biden for President) and I have started to research democratic candidates for the local level as well and I will continue to contribute to those democratic candidates who are running for key races in the Senate across the nation. After this election cycle, my plan is to support democratic candidates where I see they are working for the best interest of the country. I honestly don't see myself voting for a republican for the next 15-20 years as I believe the stench of Trump has corrupted the ranks from top to bottom.

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11668]

48 minutes ago, trauma babe said:

I promise that in four years after Joe Biden's inauguration, you will have a chance to vote against him.

I’d put it at 50-50

[Hank Kingsley 20698]

2 hours ago, BradInATX said:

I'm really interested to see what happens in the coming decade. Given the militant drooling loyalty that GOP voters have towards Trump, is the party going to be beholden to Trumpism even after he's gone? Are they going to have to do the same thing they still do for Reagan and treat a senile, classist, racist piece of shit as some sort of party demi-god? Where you have to bend the knee and slob on the orange knob to have any chance to win a primary? If so, that's going to be kind of interesting because over the next decade, demographics and boomers dying is going to make him hugely unpopular as a whole, where Reagan was not. Could put the Republicans in a really tough spot (fuck 'em). 

I see a lot of people predicting that the party will run from Trump as soon as they can. I don't see their base letting them do that. And if that's the case, they may never get the never-Trumpers and moderate conservatives back.

 

It will be interesting. Even if Trump loses bigly in November, I see the GOP keeping  Trumpist rhetoric moving forward. I think most Republicans know they have painted themselves in a corner  and are holding on to Trump to keep power. 

As long as R politicians don't give a fuck about climate change, healthcare, and science in general, they are fucked for at least a generation (again, assuming Trump loses). The electoral college has allowed them to abandon all reason policy-wise as they can still win the presidency with a minority of the overall vote. But with the olds dying off their prospects moving forward are grim. Thank god. 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Hank Kingsley

[Brandywine 1313]

If Biden gets elected within 2 years the Conservatives will have every bad thing Trump ever did In office attached to Biden. Their memory of Trump will be all glorious and grand. Just in time to bring up “DT junior” as their nominee. “Bring back the glory years!!!”  America has short memories and the GOP has a massive propaganda machine. 

[Gatorubet 30099]

If Biden gets elected within 2 years the Conservatives will have every bad thing Trump ever did In office attached to Biden. Their memory of Trump will be all glorious and grand. Just in time to bring up “DT junior” as their nominee. “Bring back the glory years!!!”  America has short memories and the GOP has a massive propaganda machine. 

You will have more ugly illegal dirt coming out on a daily basis after the muzzles are off and subpoenas complied with, that the narrative can be shaped by the Trump criminal trials. You forget that Trump and the Turtle and company committed treason. They can’t refuse to show the Putin /Turkish dirt forever.

[BigHorn'13 3354]

9 hours ago, TexArcher said:

This thread warms my independent heart already.

Not mine. Just reinforcing the "lesser of two evils" mantra that every crip and blood spews.

We need a shift away from the 2 party political system now more than ever and I'm glad some PoC are starting to realize the Democrats aren't always out for their interests. Just like I am of those breaking away from Republicans and their new party. Now it's all about convincing people that this dichotomy can be broken if they want it bad enough. Governance should never be such an either/or type of thing. 

[gmr548 16512]

The responses are pretty overwhelmingly towards the "permafuck the party of Trump" end of the spectrum. I expected more of a hardline on major progressive policies in particular after seeing the general distaste for Bernie Sanders in in the primary.

So if it's 2024 and Democrats are really rallying around something like the Green New Deal, while Republicans trot out a polished candidate, but who is currently around - Rubio, Hawley, whoever - it seems like the prevailing sentiment is to bite the bullet and still vote against the GOP in that scenario. Would that lead to a large chunk of third party votes?

[TwiceHorn 31274]

4 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

You will have more ugly illegal dirt coming out on a daily basis after the muzzles are off and subpoenas complied with, that the narrative can be shaped by the Trump criminal trials. You forget that Trump and the Turtle and company committed treason. They can’t refuse to show the Putin /Turkish dirt forever.

This is a great point.

A whole lot of Trump's bloviating will be confined to the outrageous prosecutions of himself and his family which will reveal further dirt on him and wear on his credibility even with his base.

With him out of office, they can't justify his "foibles" with "but, judges" and "but, the wall" and shit like that.

He's just going to be another loud-ass twitter account until he's convicted.

[gmr548 16512]

Not mine. Just reinforcing the "lesser of two evils" mantra that every crip and blood spews.
We need a shift away from the 2 party political system now more than ever and I'm glad some PoC are starting to realize the Democrats aren't always out for their interests. Just like I am of those breaking away from Republicans and their new party. Now it's all about convincing people that this dichotomy can be broken if they want it bad enough. Governance should never be such an either/or type of thing. 

It can be broken, but people have it backwards looking at it from the presidential level down. It has to start from the ground up. Win some statehouse seats. Get a congressional seat. Build recognition and following from there. Instead libertarians and greens just run as useless spoiler presidential candidates and invest nothing down ballot.

[Longhornfan1024 1707]

1 hour ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Someone above asked why I wouldn’t vote dem. This isn’t meant as an argument, but I don’t see more than about 1.2 of these I agree with. 

I’m never trump because he’s a loathsome asshole but I disagree with pretty much all Dem policy, so a vote for them is as antithetical to me as a vote for

Trump. This guy I quoted is sort of a Dem at heart that didn’t realize it until Trump made him reconsider. 

That’s a big difference between us. 

Thanks Walser- I quoted you but I’m basically talking to Trama Babe. 

What world do you live in where you only agree with 1.2 of these?  I can understanding having a debate over the best policy to fix the problem, but to say that the problem doesn't exist is fantasy.

[Mole 4320]

I assume this poll doesn’t count voting in the R primary against the trumpiest candidate.

[BigHorn'13 3354]

1 minute ago, gmr548 said:

5 minutes ago, BigHorn said:

Not mine. Just reinforcing the "lesser of two evils" mantra that every crip and blood spews.
We need a shift away from the 2 party political system now more than ever and I'm glad some PoC are starting to realize the Democrats aren't always out for their interests. Just like I am of those breaking away from Republicans and their new party. Now it's all about convincing people that this dichotomy can be broken if they want it bad enough. Governance should never be such an either/or type of thing. 

Read more  

It can be broken, but people have it backwards looking at it from the presidential level down. It has to start from the ground up. Win some statehouse seats. Get a congressional seat. Build recognition and following from there. Instead libertarians and greens just run as useless spoiler presidential candidates and invest nothing down ballot.

Very true and it puts people like myself in the position of not being able to vote because there's only 2 choices on the ballot for county ________ without a write-in option. So now the "durr you don't vote you can't bitch" types have their win in forcing a false choice I won't choose between. 

It's an uphill battle but I've got confidence in the younger generation to break this mold of thinking. 

[The Royal We 3065]

3 hours ago, Walser said:

I was GOP up until it came time to vote for the second term of GWB. I'm pretty ashamed of having been duped by their myths for a long time. It would take a lot for me to ever consider voting red again.

-Climate change is real

-We have a health system crisis

-Our policing needs reform & for-profit prison systems need to be abolished

-Gun violence is out of control Common sense gun laws are desperately needed.

-The tax system is going in the wrong direction and furthering the class divide

-Education needs to be overhauled

-Etc

-The War on Drugs is lost and needs to be ended.  It's both a moral and a fiscal issue.

I feel like I'm looking in the mirror here with a few small tweaks.  I can't see myself voting for a Republican for quite a while and will actively work against any GOP candidates that went full-Trumpkin during this error.

I'm a hunting, fishing, gun owning, beer drinking, and in an industry connected to Oil & Gas, Texan.

 

[Ghost of LL 15492]

8 hours ago, bad_teammate said:

Needs "will never vote for another Republican again, regardless" option.

I agree with this, because this is where I am.

Now, in fairness, I don't consider myself a "Never Trumper," because I wasn't that loyal a Republican in 2016.  Throughout the first half of the last decade, I probably voted for more Democrats than I did Republicans (those judicial races will really stack up your numbers).  But even so, if you asked me to pick between the two, I suppose I would've categorized myself as a Republican, as noxious as that is to admit now.

In any event, I'm not voting for another Republican ever.  Under any circumstance.  None.

It's like my grandmother.  Her father was in the Bonus Army.  She hated Hoover, and she idealized Roosevelt.  To the day she died, she never voted for a Republican (though she couldn't stand Bill Hobby, for reasons I still don't understand).  I think that's a very reasonable position to take.

[Bone3421 716]

Pretty much what others have said...I'm not voting for a Republican for quite awhile as they are all complicit.

I never have voted straight-ticket before but that's the plan this election.

[gmr548 16512]

Very true and it puts people like myself in the position of not being able to vote because there's only 2 choices on the ballot for county ________ without a write-in option. So now the "durr you don't vote you can't bitch" types have their win in forcing a false choice I won't choose between. 
It's an uphill battle but I've got confidence in the younger generation to break this mold of thinking. 

I don't want to be deceptive about my position, in a scenario with the Trump GOP I actually do think people not voting or going third party is a cop out. This is all hands on deck for the sake of being an actual democratic republic shit. It's pretty goddamn binary these days. Obviously I understand that politics aren't ideally binary, such are the times.

I don't foresee the two party system changing. For one, the EC very much favors consolidation. And in geneel things are so partisan that it's hard to imagine a significant breakout movement. It'd have to come from both parties, which have basically no common ground, to have the numbers to mean anything.

[pacman 7329]

All I ask for is a fiscally conservative government, absent of social policy.

We have allowed the government to shift to social policy, by very definition should be set by society not government, and have lost all control of government spending and effectiveness.

[hayden_horn 11360]

i have been the third party type for years now, before that i was primarily a solid republican voter. third party was primarily for two party rejection, rather than third party support, i suppose, thinking back on it. mostly "fuck you both, get your shit together," but i'll confess to voting for cornyn in 2014. i am an actual gary johnson voter from 2016, not because i supported his dumb ass, but because i couldn't support trump or hillary. my friends gave me shit about it, but i figured, here i am in solid red texas, so i may as well raise a middle finger.

when trump was elected, i thought maybe, just maybe he'd rise to the occasion. in retrospect, that was beyond naive, but as stunned as i was, i had to cling to some sort of hope. when it became obvious that wasn't going to happen, i thought maybe, just maybe, republicans in his administration, the house, the senate, could hold hime to account. that was also apparently beyond naive, but i guess i thought that while i was cynical about politicians, that maybe, just maybe some of them had principles.

the way the republicans have gone all in on trump has completely disgusted me. i'm completely out, and i'm not going to fuck around with any third party candidates. i'm going solid democratic candidates in a pretty much straight party fashion for the foreseeable future. 

i honestly think that i'm most disappointed in cornyn. he was the one that really opened my eyes, i think.