Question for Ex-GOP/Never Trump Moderate Types

[The Dog 43804]

For me the scope is just top of the ticket - so just Trump. 

I'm not going to hold my nose and vote for a bunch of people I disagree with on the majority of the issues just because of one dipshit. 

[SydneyCarton 47877]

3 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

That’s actually completely backwards man. If you were party person then you vote for him because that’s what the party tells you to do. 

For me it’s like being a conscientious objector. I won’t vote for anyone who has issues that are morally repugnant to me. Trumps entire existence I find morally repugnant as do I find large swaths of the Dem platform. 

Also, you guys really really really get more fired up about this voting thing than really matters. Your vote doesn’t matter. Period. Full stop. Elections are not decided by a vote. 

“Your vote doesn’t count” is a wonderful way to to share and promote an attitude for people not to go out and vote, when hundreds of thousands of votes do matter. It’s an attitude that supplements voter suppression. 

[SydneyCarton 47877]

7 minutes ago, The Dog said:

For me the scope is just top of the ticket - so just Trump. 

I'm not going to hold my nose and vote for a bunch of people I disagree with on the majority of the issues just because of one dipshit. 

Can’t ignore the enablers, imo. The shitpiles in Congress like McConnell or Graham. Or Any republican that has campaigned on trumps talking points and rhetoric, which is almost all of them. Otherwise that’s just like saying my problem was with Hitler, but Goerbels and the rest of those guys weren’t all that bad. Fuck that. 

[Biff Tannen 45494]

3 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Also, you guys really really really get more fired up about this voting thing than really matters. Your vote doesn’t matter. Period. Full stop. Elections are not decided by a vote. 

Dude.  Re-think this statement.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

1 hour ago, gmr548 said:

I don't want to be deceptive about my position, in a scenario with the Trump GOP I actually do think people not voting or going third party is a cop out. This is all hands on deck for the sake of being an actual democratic republic shit. It's pretty goddamn binary these days. Obviously I understand that politics aren't ideally binary, such are the times.

I don't foresee the two party system changing. For one, the EC very much favors consolidation. And in geneel things are so partisan that it's hard to imagine a significant breakout movement. It'd have to come from both parties, which have basically no common ground, to have the numbers to mean anything.

It's not just the EC. It's also first across the finish line in the other races.  Structurally there is no room for a third party.  If you don't like one of the two parties you have to take it over with a like minded group of people.  

[yoladu 4067]

i abstain.

[The Dog 43804]

58 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Can’t ignore the enablers, imo. The shitpiles in Congress like McConnell or Graham. Or Any republican that has campaigned on trumps talking points and rhetoric, which is almost all of them. 

Again, we are only talking top of the ticket. The rest are on a case by case basis, as it has always been with me. I'm not going to blindly vote for either party. People like me split our tickets all the time - but I will say it will have a lot more Democrats this time than Republicans and that's a first.

[SydneyCarton 47877]

9 minutes ago, The Dog said:

Again, we are only talking top of the ticket. The rest are on a case by case basis, as it has always been with me. I'm not going to blindly vote for either party. People like me split our tickets all the time - but I will say it will have a lot more Democrats this time than Republicans and that's a first.

Ah, I misunderstood what you were saying my man. My apologies. 

[elfenix 34171]

I'll consider voting for a Republican in federal office once the Democrats lie their way into a war and be complete shitbirds in response to an economic crisis.

[elfenix 34171]

I assume this poll doesn’t count voting in the R primary against the trumpiest candidate.

Can't vote against Ted Cruz twice if you don't vote in the primary

[LurkingHorn 1044]

Caveat: I haven't voted for a GOP presidential candidate since GWB but have NEVER voted for a Dem. I voted option 2. At this point I've donated to Biden and plan to vote straight-ticket Democrat except for one race where I have a personal friend running as an independent for Congress.

Never is a long time so I won't say I'll never vote GOP again. I will continue to vote Democrat until I feel the GOP moves away from the platform of the white evangelical boomer. They'll die out eventually but who knows what it will look like when that time comes. 

[Saint Tacky 1610]

3 hours ago, gmr548 said:

while Republicans trot out a polished candidate, but who is currently around - Rubio

Please, oh please, sweet little 8 pound 6 ounce baby Jesus let this happen.

2 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

i honestly think that i'm most disappointed in cornyn. he was the one that really opened my eyes, i think.

See above re Rubio. Florida voters are all over his behind re his complicity with Trump. Rubio may need to run for President in 2024. His term ends in 2023 and he'll need the work. 

Cornyn is more secure, but he deserves to be relegated to private law practice for the same ridiculous offenses. He'll be in the resistance between now and his re-election in 2026.

2 hours ago, The Dog said:

For me the scope is just top of the ticket - so just Trump. 

I'm not going to hold my nose and vote for a bunch of people I disagree with on the majority of the issues just because of one dipshit. 

So, the enablers and dipshits that did the head-dipshits bidding, just walk away. Sorry, but there must be a price for bending the knee, capitulating your constitution oversight duties, and going all-in on whackadoodle.

I foresee those Republican Senator's that consider themselves vulnerable will spend the time between now and their re-election backtracking and covering up complicity with Trump. Lisa Murkowski has looked around, seen what is happening to Susan Collins, and just broke ranks today by endorsing Mattis' op-ed.

 

 

Edited June 4, 2020 by Saint Tacky

[bad_teammate 13132]

3 hours ago, pacman said:

All I ask for is a fiscally conservative government, absent of social policy.

You cannot separate spending from social policy.

You have to choose and have the courage of your convictions.

Either you want the government tiny and barebones or you want the elderly, infirmed, and poor cared for. It's one or the other. Nothing's free.

[bad_teammate 13132]

5 hours ago, trauma babe said:

I promise that in four years after Joe Biden's inauguration, you will have a chance to vote against him.

Like... vote for his Republican opponent?

[safe sex 11678]

Just now, bad_teammate said:

Like... vote for his Republican opponent?

I really just meant vote in general, assuming he would vote against whoever the democrat is. I'm not convinced we would get to vote after another four years of Trump. Hell, will we even vote this year?

[washparkhorn 9935]

I enjoy hearing from the NeverTrump Repubs. Thanks for the thread. 

[TornACL 7675]

8 hours ago, gmr548 said:

So if it's 2024 and Democrats are really rallying around something like the Green New Deal, while Republicans trot out a polished candidate, but who is currently around - Rubio, Hawley, whoever - it seems like the prevailing sentiment is to bite the bullet and still vote against the GOP in that scenario. Would that lead to a large chunk of third party votes?

Marco Rubio can definitely go fuck himself. His ability to go from attacker to apologist put him on the permaban list for me. 

[The Royal We 3065]

Agreed, Rubio and Cruz can both get bent for that same reason.

[hpslugga 4044]

On 6/4/2020 at 5:57 AM, Walser said:

I was GOP up until it came time to vote for the second term of GWB. I'm pretty ashamed of having been duped by their myths for a long time. It would take a lot for me to ever consider voting red again.

-Climate change is real

-We have a health system crisis

-Our policing needs reform

-Gun violence is out of control

-The tax system is going in the wrong direction and furthering the class divide

-Education needs to be overhauled

-Etc

Not only has the GOP willfully ignored self-evident issues, they seem to be determined to go in the wrong direction. Somehow it also astonished me how easily R leaders bent the knee and looked the other way WRT to Trump's behavior. Shameful.

You bring up a good point on local vs. national elections. I will definitely be more involved and better informed starting at the local level going forward.

Signed,

-MIddle-age middle-class gun-owning truck-driving white male Texan

God damn, for a minute I thought I was looking into a mirror until I saw the last line.

[Message Board User 12389]

This is where I'm at.

Mitt Romney as Senate Majority Minority Leader in 2021 would go a long way towards re-establishing GOP credibility.

[cactusflinthead 27594]

On 6/4/2020 at 5:57 AM, Walser said:

I was GOP up until it came time to vote for the second term of GWB. I'm pretty ashamed of having been duped by their myths for a long time. It would take a lot for me to ever consider voting red again.

-Climate change is real

-We have a health system crisis

-Our policing needs reform

-Gun violence is out of control

-The tax system is going in the wrong direction and furthering the class divide

-Education needs to be overhauled

-Etc

Not only has the GOP willfully ignored self-evident issues, they seem to be determined to go in the wrong direction. Somehow it also astonished me how easily R leaders bent the knee and looked the other way WRT to Trump's behavior. Shameful.

You bring up a good point on local vs. national elections. I will definitely be more involved and better informed starting at the local level going forward.

Signed,

-MIddle-age middle-class gun-owning truck-driving white male Texan

You might want to post more 

[TwiceHorn 31274]

26 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

This is where I'm at.

Mitt Romney as Senate Majority Minority Leader in 2021 would go a long way towards re-establishing GOP credibility.

That's about how I feel (the Nichols tweets).  

Not so sure about Romney.  I kind of liked him as a Presidential candidate, but that it always a huge compromise.  His Mormonism leads to some social conservatism that gives me the willies.

[Message Board User 12389]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's about how I feel (the Nichols tweets).  

Not so sure about Romney.  I kind of liked him as a Presidential candidate, but that it always a huge compromise.  His Mormonism leads to some social conservatism that gives me the willies.

Someone is going to need to be the GOP leader in the Senate come Jan 2021 - I can't think of a better alternative than Romney.  And it would enrage Trump.

Edited June 7, 2020 by Message Board User

[cactusflinthead 27594]

On 6/4/2020 at 8:12 AM, trauma babe said:

You're in luck, though! The democrats have a pretty well established modern history of supporting liberal democracy, however flawed, over fascism. Surely that is a policy position that you can agree with. So, to be frank, that should be enough wiggle room for literally any person in the world to be able to vote for Joe Biden and feel like their conscience is clear. This election is not about voting for Joe Biden. 

Do you know how I spent a good chunk of my shift last night? Sucking blood out of a young adult's mouth, around their breathing tube, while they had a seizure. The "less lethal" ammo that APD deployed against the group they were a part of, peacefully protesting over the weekend, cracked the skull open and caused massive brain trauma. Their skull was taken apart and put back together a few days later. This person, this child of an Austinite, this not-yet-fully-grown human being will spend the next significant portion of their life having either a tube shoved up their urethra at regular intervals or piss themselves—all the while being hooked up to monitors and IV poles, getting CT after CT. An MRI or two. Then after a prolonged time on a ventilator, because of the brain trauma, they're not able to maintain their own airway, so a tracheostomy is performed. Soon thereafter, a permanent feeding tube is surgically placed into the stomach. They can't communicate in any meaningful way. You see, all they will do during this time is shit themselves, piss themselves, and show just enough signs of life to keep their family's hopes alive.

This is Donald Trump's America.

 

Holy fuck!

[henrygandorf 29176]

34 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

This is where I'm at.

Mitt Romney as Senate Majority Minority Leader in 2021 would go a long way towards re-establishing GOP credibility.

seems like someone could make a couple bucks with an “i am conservative, not stupid” t-shirt. 

[TXSG8R 3360]

Outside of Romney I dont see a Republican with a spine worth voting for.  At the same time, Im not going to get into a never whatever situation because its just as bad as the idiots that are in Trump's camp.  Vote on the issues.  Stop having parties bend candidates to their pillars.  Stop having party loyalty even be something worth talking about.  Bring back moderates on both sides, and start fucking compromising for the good of the country.  

[gmr548 16512]

34 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

That's about how I feel (the Nichols tweets).  

Not so sure about Romney.  I kind of liked him as a Presidential candidate, but that it always a huge compromise.  His Mormonism leads to some social conservatism that gives me the willies.

The Mormon church officially touted that black people were inferior to white people because of their souls or some shit until the late 70s. To me, anyone who went along with that as an adult, which includes Mitt Romney as far as I know, is a hard no. I used him as an example of palatable GOP because he is widely used as such. It's selective, but he's the only one who's considered finding his spine when it comes to Trump (RIP McCain). He's kind of the example by default.

[Celery Man 20886]

 

[TXSG8R 3360]

45 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

The Mormon church officially touted that black people were inferior to white people because of their souls or some shit until the late 70s. To me, anyone who went along with that as an adult, which includes Mitt Romney as far as I know, is a hard no. I used him as an example of palatable GOP because he is widely used as such. It's selective, but he's the only one who's considered finding his spine when it comes to Trump (RIP McCain). He's kind of the example by default.

Can’t stop at the Mormons if you’re going that route. Plenty of Christian churches preached the same. Romney bent to party pillars when he ran for president, and in my eyes made him a worse candidate. He seems to have grown from that experience and is willing to call a spade a spade now.  I’m by no means saying he’s not flawed, but we need more guys that can tell the party no. The problem is the 2 party system can choke candidates out in many areas, so they bend the knee to keep getting that sweet lobbyist money. 
 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3856205/

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

I'm not sure I get the logic of some of the folks who say that if you don't vote for the Dems because the Republicans are terrible that you are just as bad. We are left with a choice between getting analy raped with a pineapple or getting analy raped with @NowThis's favorite strap on. How about not supporting rape? Saying someone should vote for the lesser of two evils is basically saying you support evil.

The Republicans don't stand for anything identifiable as conservative on the fiscal front, and they have outright embraced racism and hate. The Democrats don't have the same problem with racism as Republicans, but they seem to be full on board with the hate, just packaged differently. And they are in lock step with the current Republicans in pushing us towards our own destruction. But we have to pick which way we get raped, or we are part of the problem. 

Maybe instead we should decide that we don't want to be raped.

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

On 6/6/2020 at 9:14 PM, TXSG8R said:

Can’t stop at the Mormons if you’re going that route. Plenty of Christian churches preached the same. Romney bent to party pillars when he ran for president, and in my eyes made him a worse candidate. He seems to have grown from that experience and is willing to call a spade a spade now.  I’m by no means saying he’s not flawed, but we need more guys that can tell the party no. The problem is the 2 party system can choke candidates out in many areas, so they bend the knee to keep getting that sweet lobbyist money. 
 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3856205/

Either ISWYDT or word selection awareness?

Everyone is flawed. Everyone. But learning and growing from those flaws is a choice. Some flaws and choices are more egregious than others and may be insurmountable, IMO. Who knows the sincerity and motivations in this man's heart and mind.

During the impeachment hearings, Adam Schiff got so much *vitriol spewed his way I was growing uncomfortable that he was going to be killed. He has his flaws as well, but I accepted that Schiff's premise was sincere: that the American people deserved to see the case laid out in Congress and that the allegations against the President (and rebuttals) should be seen and heard. Was it a calculated fabricated witch hunt? Others would say, "Of course, weak loser DemocRAT." But, I believe and continue to believe otherwise.

 

 

*Obviously Pelosi, et al received as much or more vitriol, but as the Chair of the HPSCI, he was the shield that received the brunt of the attacks at the time, IMO.

[softlynow 1783]

On 6/6/2020 at 7:18 PM, Message Board User said:

This is where I'm at.

Mitt Romney as Senate Majority Minority Leader in 2021 would go a long way towards re-establishing GOP credibility.

Tom is right to see past Trump as the only problem in the party. Grifter Conservatives aren’t a new thing. Romney leading the Senate side of things would be a good start, but it’ll take more than one election to clear out the rot.

As someone who is not a Never Trumper, just an admirer, I hope Tom and his buddies see this project through for the next decade or so. In every election my number or issue is corruption. It would be nice to have the chance vote out corrupt Dems. Right now the other evil is almost always greater. 

[softlynow 1783]

25 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I'm not sure I get the logic of some of the folks who say that if you don't vote for the Dems because the Republicans are terrible that you are just as bad. We are left with a choice between getting analy raped with a pineapple or getting analy raped with @NowThis's favorite strap on. How about not supporting rape? Saying someone should vote for the lesser of two evils is basically saying you support evil.

The Republicans don't stand for anything identifiable as conservative on the fiscal front, and they have outright embraced racism and hate. The Democrats don't have the same problem with racism as Republicans, but they seem to be full on board with the hate, just packaged differently. And they are in lock step with the current Republicans in pushing us towards our own destruction. But we have to pick which way we get raped, or we are part of the problem. 

Maybe instead we should decide that we don't want to be raped.

To put it in Tom Nichols construction, do you support preserving a constitution? If so, there’s a vote for that. In a two party system your “not supporting rape” choice (neither Dem nor Pub) is nothing more than declaring a tie. Declaring a tie between preservation of the constitution and destruction of it is a fine choice, if you’re ambivalent about the USC. 

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4968]

2 minutes ago, softlynow said:

To put it in Tom Nichols construction, do you support preserving a constitution? If so, there’s a vote for that. In a two party system your “not supporting rape” choice (neither Dem nor Pub) is nothing more than declaring a tie. Declaring a tie between preservation of the constitution and destruction of it is a fine choice, if you’re ambivalent about the USC. 

When trump issues some ridiculous, racist, and unconstitutional executive order, all I see from the Democrats on here is glee about how the tables will turn where their person gets in office and issues their own unconstitutional executive orders now that unconstitutional executive orders have been normalized. So, yeah, voting Dem is not preserving the constitution. And this is just one example. Again, voting for the lessor of two evils is still voting for evil.

[softlynow 1783]

Just now, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

When trump issues some ridiculous, racist, and unconstitutional executive order, all I see from the Democrats on here is glee about how the tables will turn where their person gets in office and issues their own unconstitutional executive orders now that unconstitutional executive orders have been normalized. So, yeah, voting Dem is not preserving the constitution. And this is just one example. Again, voting for the lessor of two evils is still voting for evil.

You really think the wimps that win elections as Dems will do any of that shit? Have you not been paying attention? Dem pols are ambitious careerists just like Pubs, sure. But their base is all about process and togetherness and understanding. They talk a big game about retribution, but are way too weak-willed to follow through. I get it, though. Low taxes and your fine with the rest. That’s cool. 

[Planet Houston 4923]

On 6/4/2020 at 7:57 AM, Wulaw Horn said:

Also, you guys really really really get more fired up about this voting thing than really matters. Your vote doesn’t matter. Period. Full stop. Elections are not decided by a vote. 

Wow, your political takes are worse than your takes on the old Astros threads. That’s....saying something. Yikes. 

[StassneyHorn 6538]

34 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

When trump issues some ridiculous, racist, and unconstitutional executive order, all I see from the Democrats on here is glee about how the tables will turn where their person gets in office and issues their own unconstitutional executive orders now that unconstitutional executive orders have been normalized. 

Where? People have said the next one up can issue one to reverse, but I’ve seen nothing about tit for tat.

[Asithappens 974]

On 6/6/2020 at 7:50 PM, Message Board User said:

Someone is going to need to be the GOP leader in the Senate come Jan 2021 - I can't think of a better alternative than Romney.  And it would enrage Trump.

Romney, a Mormon, is by far the most christian of them all. 

Suck on that you evangelical fucktards.

[Larry T. Spider 1740]

Not sure that I qualify in any of these categories because I ditched the GOP in around 2013 because of how the Texas GOP conducted business. Obviously the national version of the party has done even worse, which didn’t seem possible back then.

Im never going back and will oppose their agenda until I die. It’s hard to share a country with people that think it’s good to lock brown kids in cages, separated from their parents. Or think that you can wish away a pandemic. Or worship a man that stokes racial division and hatred while calling other countries shit holes. Or normalizes election fraud. I’m just going to stop because the list goes on and on.

 The point is that these people are going to think like this long after trump is gone. There is one (flawed) group that is able to keep them from having real power over the rest of us and that is the Democratic Party. Get on board or be complicit in the horror show.

[safe sex 11678]

4 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I'm not sure I get the logic of some of the folks who say that if you don't vote for the Dems because the Republicans are terrible that you are just as bad. We are left with a choice between getting analy raped with a pineapple or getting analy raped with @NowThis's favorite strap on. How about not supporting rape? Saying someone should vote for the lesser of two evils is basically saying you support evil.

The Republicans don't stand for anything identifiable as conservative on the fiscal front, and they have outright embraced racism and hate. The Democrats don't have the same problem with racism as Republicans, but they seem to be full on board with the hate, just packaged differently. And they are in lock step with the current Republicans in pushing us towards our own destruction. But we have to pick which way we get raped, or we are part of the problem. 

Maybe instead we should decide that we don't want to be raped.

You should maybe change up the metaphor.

[ryskey 447]

This is a good a place as any to go on this rant.

How in the hell did THIS issue become so divisive along party lines?  And so quickly?  

Why do opinions from Ds and Rs on re-opening the economy correlate so highly with their views on gun control, immigration, abortion, taxes, and every other issue?  Battle lines are drawn and critical thinking is enthusiastically ceded to the party leadership.  Then it becomes a purity test.

If I support a deliberate, data-driven approach to re-opening the economy that strikes a good balance between health risk and the economy, then one side thinks I've been brainwashed by the WHO and the other thinks I'm complicit in murder.  

"Moderate" and "independent" do not always mean the middle on every issue.  They do imply using all tools available, and depending on the flavor of the month, those tools may or may not be in favor with one of the parties.  

D and R are quickly quickly overlapping to occupy a lot of the same space.  Massive policy differences obviously, but both are wild-eyed zealots that spend all day in their respective echo chambers applying purity tests.

I feel like the dude caught between Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunne in Dumb and Dumber when they're playing the stamp game in the van (excluding the whole thug-for-hire thing of course).

Not just no but hell no.  Give me a damned pragmatist.  Again that does not mean someone who straddles the fence on everything.  It can be someone who wants radical change, as long as the strategy has a firm foundation in reality and long-term thinking.  Someone who knows how to unite and build coalitions, not someone who operates on emotion and whatever the outrage du jour is.  In other words, a fucking adult.  To tie this to the poll question, those people seem to be migrating to the Dems, so that's how I'm going to vote this cycle.  But I'll follow those folks wherever they go.  If they're Rs in 4 years (probably not), then I'll be voting R.  Above all I want politicians who have a clear strategy for improving education.  Because this country is clearly lacking in critical thinking skills right now.

 

 

[TXSG8R 3360]

4 hours ago, Mrs Whiggins said:

Either ISWYDT or word selection awareness?

Everyone is flawed. Everyone. But learning and growing from those flaws is a choice. Some flaws and choices are more egregious than others and may be insurmountable, IMO. Who knows the sincerity and motivations in this man's heart and mind.

During the impeachment hearings, Adam Schiff got so much *vitriol spewed his way I was growing uncomfortable that he was going to be killed. He has his flaws as well, but I accepted that Schiff's premise was sincere: that the American people deserved to see the case laid out in Congress and that the allegations against the President (and rebuttals) should be seen and heard. Was it a calculated fabricated witch hunt? Others would say, "Of course, weak loser DemocRAT." But, I believe and continue to believe otherwise.

 

 

*Obviously Pelosi, et al received as much or more vitriol, but as the Chair of the HPSCI, he was the shield that received the brunt of the attacks at the time, IMO.

I genuinely didn’t know that phrase had any other connotations. I assume you’re referencing this. 
https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2013/09/19/224183763/is-it-racist-to-call-a-spade-a-spade

[Biff Tannen 45494]

15 minutes ago, ryskey said:

Give me a damned pragmatist.  Again that does not mean someone who straddles the fence on everything.  It can be someone who wants radical change, as long as the strategy has a firm foundation in reality and long-term thinking.  Someone who knows how to unite and build coalitions, not someone who operates on emotion and whatever the outrage du jour is.  In other words, a fucking adult.  To tie this to the poll question, those people seem to be migrating to the Dems, so that's how I'm going to vote this cycle.  But I'll follow those folks wherever they go.  If they're Rs in 4 years (probably not), then I'll be voting R.  Above all I want politicians who have a clear strategy for improving education.  Because this country is clearly lacking in critical thinking skills right now.

I would venture to say that most people on this board agree with this.  I agree with a lot of the Dem policies and proposals, but there's obviously a limit.  I don't think for a second that Biden is going to implement some of the more radical ideas, mainly because there is a lack of critical thinking with some of it, even if the end goal is a good idea.  

You want an adult this cycle?  The choice is clear.  Baby steps.  In 2024 we can re-visit.

[bolverk 29399]

13 minutes ago, ryskey said:

This is a good a place as any to go on this rant.

How in the hell did THIS issue become so divisive along party lines?  And so quickly?  

Why do opinions from Ds and Rs on re-opening the economy correlate so highly with their views on gun control, immigration, abortion, taxes, and every other issue?  Battle lines are drawn and critical thinking is enthusiastically ceded to the party leadership.  Then it becomes a purity test.

If I support a deliberate, data-driven approach to re-opening the economy that strikes a good balance between health risk and the economy, then one side thinks I've been brainwashed by the WHO and the other thinks I'm complicit in murder.  

"Moderate" and "independent" do not always mean the middle on every issue.  They do imply using all tools available, and depending on the flavor of the month, those tools may or may not be in favor with one of the parties.  

D and R are quickly quickly overlapping to occupy a lot of the same space.  Massive policy differences obviously, but both are wild-eyed zealots that spend all day in their respective echo chambers applying purity tests.

I feel like the dude caught between Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunne in Dumb and Dumber when they're playing the stamp game in the van (excluding the whole thug-for-hire thing of course).

Not just no but hell no.  Give me a damned pragmatist.  Again that does not mean someone who straddles the fence on everything.  It can be someone who wants radical change, as long as the strategy has a firm foundation in reality and long-term thinking.  Someone who knows how to unite and build coalitions, not someone who operates on emotion and whatever the outrage du jour is.  In other words, a fucking adult.  To tie this to the poll question, those people seem to be migrating to the Dems, so that's how I'm going to vote this cycle.  But I'll follow those folks wherever they go.  If they're Rs in 4 years (probably not), then I'll be voting R.  Above all I want politicians who have a clear strategy for improving education.  Because this country is clearly lacking in critical thinking skills right now.

 

 

To me, that's just really shitty wording of the question in that poll. They didn't ask the preference that you stated, which is a "data-driven approach to re-opening the economy that strikes a good balance between health risk and the economy." That's certainly the option that I would've chosen and likely the vast majority on this board, but instead they phrase it to be more like: a) OPEN NOW - be damned the consequences! or b) STAY CLOSED!!! - be damned the consequences!

In fact, the biggest complaint that I've heard from Dems/the Left is that we're NOT doing exactly what you suggest. Our State leaders (in Texas) have chosen option a).

[Mrs Whiggins 13049]

@TXSG8R

I wasn't calling you out to be harsh. I figured you were either going full Surly or using the old phrase w/o the underlying pejorative but in light of events, it just stuck out.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Mrs Whiggins
addition

[ryskey 447]

47 minutes ago, bolverk said:

To me, that's just really shitty wording of the question in that poll. They didn't ask the preference that you stated, which is a "data-driven approach to re-opening the economy that strikes a good balance between health risk and the economy." That's certainly the option that I would've chosen and likely the vast majority on this board, but instead they phrase it to be more like: a) OPEN NOW - be damned the consequences! or b) STAY CLOSED!!! - be damned the consequences!

In fact, the biggest complaint that I've heard from Dems/the Left is that we're NOT doing exactly what you suggest. Our State leaders (in Texas) have chosen option a).

True, phrasing was quite shitty.  But I'm still wondering why so many people chose black or white instead of saying "man, neither of these describe me" and selecting not sure.  The default answer someone who identifies as D or R is apparently to err on the side of tribal demagogues.  And therefore the issue is being described, consumed, and reinforced in terms of ridiculous extremes.

[wildcat09 29243]

5 hours ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

I'm not sure I get the logic of some of the folks who say that if you don't vote for the Dems because the Republicans are terrible that you are just as bad. We are left with a choice between getting analy raped with a pineapple or getting analy raped with @NowThis's favorite strap on. How about not supporting rape? Saying someone should vote for the lesser of two evils is basically saying you support evil.

The Republicans don't stand for anything identifiable as conservative on the fiscal front, and they have outright embraced racism and hate. The Democrats don't have the same problem with racism as Republicans, but they seem to be full on board with the hate, just packaged differently. And they are in lock step with the current Republicans in pushing us towards our own destruction. But we have to pick which way we get raped, or we are part of the problem. 

Maybe instead we should decide that we don't want to be raped.

"Hmmmm, nazis or slightly higher tax rates... nazis or slightly higher tax rates... look these are both awful and I just can't choose between them! What's that, all you people in concentration camps? How dare you call me an inhuman monster! I'm the one that refuses to support evil!"

[Bama Chick 28596]

Love when men blithely make tone deaf rape analogies.

Helps me know who to avoid like the Covid.

[Wulaw Horn 18980]

4 hours ago, Planet Houston said:

Wow, your political takes are worse than your takes on the old Astros threads. That’s....saying something. Yikes. 

I’ve never voted on an election where my vote was the deciding vote. I don’t expect that to ever happen. Thus it doesn’t matter, any election I’ve ever participated in, whether I personally participated in it. That’s objective fact- I’m not a decider in any voting situation. 

I vote because I appreciate it as part of my right to participate in this grand American experiment, but end of the day my vote has never mattered. And neither has yours. Other than to you personally. 

[bolverk 29399]

18 minutes ago, ryskey said:

True, phrasing was quite shitty.  But I'm still wondering why so many people chose black or white instead of saying "man, neither of these describe me" and selecting not sure.  The default answer someone who identifies as D or R is apparently to err on the side of tribal demagogues.  And therefore the issue is being described, consumed, and reinforced in terms of ridiculous extremes.

Went back the original tweet and found more poll responses. One particular question seemed to stand out which might give you a better idea of which "side" would prefer a data-driven approach to reopening the economy.

I'll caveat the above by saying I didn't see a question regarding the views of economists on reopening things, but I will say I've seen/heard several say that the economy cannot fully recover until people/businesses feel like it's safe to go about their normal activities.

So, yeah, there's got to be a balance. You also have to take into consideration that this is a Pennsylvania poll - a state whose eastern half is immediately adjacent to ground zero for this thing in NY/NJ.

Edited June 9, 2020 by bolverk