Defund the Police

[Huckleberry 34407]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

“Too much, too fast” is the fall-back position for people and institutions that have experienced decades of success with the argument of “we’re not the problem - YOU ARE,” but then see that argument now dead in the water. So, they know change is coming...and the strategy is to slow-play it, drag it out, and hope that the agents of change lose patience.

It’s basic game theory shit. And...fuck that shit. If you want to have ANY chance of major change in how we police, then the only path with any chance is a fast-moving, disruptive approach. Bottom line, the most important thing to accomplish is for PDs to realize that they aren’t in charge. We are.

"BUT THAT'S HOW WE'VE ALWAYS DONE IT!"

[Biff Tannen 46069]

On 7/31/2020 at 11:26 AM, tantric superman said:

I think intentionally stupid people cancel each other out.  The real issue is what I would call intentionally disengaged people.  I've got a good number of new neighbors with small kids, and I've been kind of astounded by the number of people who simply don't have a dog in the Trump fight.  I was speaking to a person who I thought would be the closest person on our block to being a progressive on our block (psychologist, wife is a nurse, non-religious), and I was getting an affable "I don't know if I can bring myself to vote for Biden" response to my not so veiled sentiment that Trump was Lucifer.

 

 

 

[Mapache 1117]

Absolute bullshit 

 

 

[UpperWestside 6263]

And I'll raise you this one from DC. Racist ass clowns.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/two-black-moms-took-their-kids-to-the-mall-secret-service-officers-confronted-them-with-guns-they-said/ar-BB17wCbg?ocid=hponeservicefeed

Quote

It was a hot Thursday afternoon, so India Johnson, 26, and Yasmeen Winston, 25, decided to take their babies to splash in the fountains at the World War II Memorial. The women, best friends since seventh grade, parked on Constitution Avenue near the White House and prepared to walk to the Mall.

Their babies were in the back seat, Mother Goose Club was singing through the car speakers, and the mothers were digging around in diaper bags when they heard the crash and felt the jolt.

Johnson and Winston looked up. A Secret Service cruiser had driven into their front left bumper, Winston told The Washington Post. Within seconds, Winston recalled, a uniformed Secret Service officer was pointing a rifle at them, yelling “Get out!” and “Put your hands in the air!” More officers surrounded them with guns pulled, the women said.

Over the next hour, Winston and Johnson said, they were handcuffed without reason, separated from their crying babies, and handled by police who, at first, did not wear masks to protect against the novel coronavirus.

The women are now demanding that the Secret Service investigate the encounter and publicly release details of the incident that, they said, made them fear for their lives and the safety of their children.

“This incident took place near our national monuments across from the White House,” their attorney, Timothy Maloney, wrote in the letter demanding an investigation to Secret Service Director James Murray over the weekend. “It occurred after eight weeks of unprecedented national demonstrations about excessive police conduct, some of which took place right there on Constitution Avenue. Has the Secret Service learned nothing this summer?”

Initially, the women said, an officer told them the vehicle had been reported stolen and that the suspects were two Black men. But the women, both African American, said no men were with them and provided proof that Johnson was the owner. She told the Secret Service she had never reported the car stolen. Eventually, the women were released — without an apology or answers to their questions, Winston said.

Days later, they said they still don’t know why the Secret Service targeted them.

“I could have been another Breonna Taylor,” Winston said. “I could have been another innocent woman who has no record and got shot.”

In a statement, a Secret Service spokesperson confirmed they had received a “query requesting the agency investigate an alleged interaction between Uniformed Division Officers and two members of the public.” The Secret Service said it is “looking into the matter” and “has no further comment at this time.”

Maloney said the Secret Service has not acknowledged receipt of their letter, which demands answers to 16 questions in addition to an investigation.

“These were two young African American mothers with their babies sitting lawfully in a car with D.C. tags,” Maloney wrote in his letter. “Can the Secret Service honestly say it would have treated white out-of-town tourists and their babies, sitting there without District tags, the same way?”

The women grew up in Reston, Va., and later moved to the District. They had sons within months of each other. Winston’s son, G’esus, is 6 months old. Johnson’s son, Sir Quincy, is 13 months.

Winston said she and Johnson were in “full mommy mode” in the parked Ford Focus when, based on the angle of the collision, they believe the Secret Service car drove across the centerline of Constitution Avenue near 17th Street and plowed into the front bumper on the driver’s side.

The babies — scared from the crash — were wailing, and the officers were yelling with guns drawn, Winston said.

“It felt like a dream. It was so unreal,” she said. “We’re trying to understand what [the officer] was saying, because we didn’t want to make the wrong move and accidentally get shot up.”

Johnson, barefoot, got out of the car first and immediately asked why they were being detained, according to Winston’s account to The Post and Maloney’s letter. Johnson told the officer where to find her documents.

Winston, still in the passenger seat, held her hands to the roof of the car, she said. The officer with the rifle pointed it at her head. She said she pleaded with him not to shoot her baby.

Both women were handcuffed, according to the letter. Neither woman was read her Miranda rights, they said.

For about 45 minutes, according to the letter, the babies wailed in the back seat of the car while the women were in handcuffs. The doors to the car were open, which made the mothers worry about their children overheating. Winston asked if she could breastfeed her son, but was ignored, she said.

“No one wants to hear their kid cry,” Winston said.

At some point, an officer on the scene called an ambulance to check on the children, and the women were released from the cuffs and reunited with the babies. After the women finished with the ambulance, a bystander told them officers searched Johnson’s car without her permission, according to the letter.

Winston said she asked the officers for their business cards, but they said they did not carry them. So instead, she got a pad of paper and a pen and went down the line, asking for their names and badge numbers.

“I had to stay strong, somebody had to be strong. I wanted to cry, but I’m not going to let them see me cry,” Winston said. “The fact that our kids had to witness this? Nobody wants to introduce their kids to this.”

Winston said she and Johnson want answers to why this happened to them.

“For this to randomly just happen,” she said. “It’s really traumatizing.”

Maloney said he and his clients are prepared to ask for a congressional inquiry if they don’t get answers soon. He called on the Secret Service to publicly release details of the incident, including why it started and who was involved. He said they want to see the incident report and body camera footage if it exists. They’re also calling for the Secret Service to suspend the responsible officers.

Winston said she and Johnson have spent the days since the incident paranoid and traumatized. She is seeking therapy. Johnson is afraid to drive alone and avoids leaving the house.

“We don’t get in trouble. Nothing like this has ever happened to us,” Winston said. “I thought the police was here to serve and protect us, and now it’s really uncomfortable.”

 

[ChiTownDoc 21326]

13 minutes ago, Mapache said:

Absolute bullshit 

 

 

Update: The stolen ‘car’ was a motorcycle.  Of course the pigs can’t tell the difference between a van and a motorcycle.  Fire them all.  Start over.  

[Biff Tannen 46069]

2 minutes ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Fire them all.  Start over.  

Yep

[Post Oak 20551]

9 hours ago, Mapache said:

Absolute bullshit 

 

 

Defund the whole fucking thing.  Not one good damn brain in all those officers and the children will be traumatized for life.

Burn it down

[DigglerontheHoof 21516]

9 hours ago, ChiTownDoc said:

Update: The stolen ‘car’ was a motorcycle.  Of course the pigs can’t tell the difference between a van and a motorcycle.  Fire them all.  Start over.  

[Brisketexan 106669]

Defund the whole fucking thing.  Not one good damn brain in all those officers and the children will be traumatized for life.
Burn it down

No, see, we need to BACK THE BLUE. They need more of our support, not less.

Oh wait - maybe we should privatize them! Yeah, and the contractor can hire the exact same guys, except now, they’ll be incentivized to make that arrest of those dangerous thug car thieves - it’ll be awesome!

Honestly...is there any fix for American policing OTHER than the painful and chaotic process of nuking them all and starting over? I’m about 80% serious with that. Having no functional PD at all for a while will really, really suck. Like chemo sucks. But is it our only chance to get rid of the cancer?

Cops seem to be dead-set on making every argument in favor of that outcome. I’ve never seen an institution so dedicated to showing that it’s as big a cancer as most people think it is.

[Rougarou 594]

This part is what I meant when I said it would be bad for equality:

Honestly...is there any fix for American policing OTHER than the painful and chaotic process of nuking them all and starting over? I’m about 80% serious with that. Having no functional PD at all for a while will really, really suck. Like chemo sucks. But is it our only chance to get rid of the cancer?

Who do you think is going to stick around for the chemo phase and have to deal with all the proverbial nausea and feeling like death? Those who can't afford to leave. The poor, the marginalized and those who need the most help to begin with. Who will be overwhelmingly the victims of a city with heightened amounts of mayhem while the city transitions? Poor, people of color. Schools go to crap, etc.

If inner city Houston/Dallas were to disband and had no functional PD while burning it down to start over the right way, those who live in Washington Ave and Montrose or Uptown or whatever, are just going to leave to Kingwood or Allen or any suburb area who are not burning down their PD and then wait to return when the chemo is over and the cured state has been established.

It's almost as if Defund the Police needs to be a Federal enactment with guidelines and deadlines, meaning you can't opt out (like other civil rights movements like desegregation) so there aren't options to bail on a community during it's time of need and transition.

[Nivek 17350]

Update: The stolen ‘car’ was a motorcycle.  Of course the pigs can’t tell the difference between a van and a motorcycle.  Fire them all.  Start over.  

Remember when they shot up some ladies for delivering newspapers in a vehicle that looked nothing like Chris Dorner’s?

[Nivek 17350]

And I'll raise you this one from DC. Racist ass clowns.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/two-black-moms-took-their-kids-to-the-mall-secret-service-officers-confronted-them-with-guns-they-said/ar-BB17wCbg?ocid=hponeservicefeed

It was a hot Thursday afternoon, so India Johnson, 26, and Yasmeen Winston, 25, decided to take their babies to splash in the fountains at the World War II Memorial. The women, best friends since seventh grade, parked on Constitution Avenue near the White House and prepared to walk to the Mall.

Their babies were in the back seat, Mother Goose Club was singing through the car speakers, and the mothers were digging around in diaper bags when they heard the crash and felt the jolt.

Johnson and Winston looked up. A Secret Service cruiser had driven into their front left bumper, Winston told The Washington Post. Within seconds, Winston recalled, a uniformed Secret Service officer was pointing a rifle at them, yelling “Get out!” and “Put your hands in the air!” More officers surrounded them with guns pulled, the women said.

Over the next hour, Winston and Johnson said, they were handcuffed without reason, separated from their crying babies, and handled by police who, at first, did not wear masks to protect against the novel coronavirus.

The women are now demanding that the Secret Service investigate the encounter and publicly release details of the incident that, they said, made them fear for their lives and the safety of their children.

“This incident took place near our national monuments across from the White House,” their attorney, Timothy Maloney, wrote in the letter demanding an investigation to Secret Service Director James Murray over the weekend. “It occurred after eight weeks of unprecedented national demonstrations about excessive police conduct, some of which took place right there on Constitution Avenue. Has the Secret Service learned nothing this summer?”

Initially, the women said, an officer told them the vehicle had been reported stolen and that the suspects were two Black men. But the women, both African American, said no men were with them and provided proof that Johnson was the owner. She told the Secret Service she had never reported the car stolen. Eventually, the women were released — without an apology or answers to their questions, Winston said.

Days later, they said they still don’t know why the Secret Service targeted them.

“I could have been another Breonna Taylor,” Winston said. “I could have been another innocent woman who has no record and got shot.”

In a statement, a Secret Service spokesperson confirmed they had received a “query requesting the agency investigate an alleged interaction between Uniformed Division Officers and two members of the public.” The Secret Service said it is “looking into the matter” and “has no further comment at this time.”

Maloney said the Secret Service has not acknowledged receipt of their letter, which demands answers to 16 questions in addition to an investigation.

“These were two young African American mothers with their babies sitting lawfully in a car with D.C. tags,” Maloney wrote in his letter. “Can the Secret Service honestly say it would have treated white out-of-town tourists and their babies, sitting there without District tags, the same way?”

The women grew up in Reston, Va., and later moved to the District. They had sons within months of each other. Winston’s son, G’esus, is 6 months old. Johnson’s son, Sir Quincy, is 13 months.

Winston said she and Johnson were in “full mommy mode” in the parked Ford Focus when, based on the angle of the collision, they believe the Secret Service car drove across the centerline of Constitution Avenue near 17th Street and plowed into the front bumper on the driver’s side.

The babies — scared from the crash — were wailing, and the officers were yelling with guns drawn, Winston said.

“It felt like a dream. It was so unreal,” she said. “We’re trying to understand what [the officer] was saying, because we didn’t want to make the wrong move and accidentally get shot up.”

Johnson, barefoot, got out of the car first and immediately asked why they were being detained, according to Winston’s account to The Post and Maloney’s letter. Johnson told the officer where to find her documents.

Winston, still in the passenger seat, held her hands to the roof of the car, she said. The officer with the rifle pointed it at her head. She said she pleaded with him not to shoot her baby.

Both women were handcuffed, according to the letter. Neither woman was read her Miranda rights, they said.

For about 45 minutes, according to the letter, the babies wailed in the back seat of the car while the women were in handcuffs. The doors to the car were open, which made the mothers worry about their children overheating. Winston asked if she could breastfeed her son, but was ignored, she said.

“No one wants to hear their kid cry,” Winston said.

At some point, an officer on the scene called an ambulance to check on the children, and the women were released from the cuffs and reunited with the babies. After the women finished with the ambulance, a bystander told them officers searched Johnson’s car without her permission, according to the letter.

Winston said she asked the officers for their business cards, but they said they did not carry them. So instead, she got a pad of paper and a pen and went down the line, asking for their names and badge numbers.

“I had to stay strong, somebody had to be strong. I wanted to cry, but I’m not going to let them see me cry,” Winston said. “The fact that our kids had to witness this? Nobody wants to introduce their kids to this.”

Winston said she and Johnson want answers to why this happened to them.

“For this to randomly just happen,” she said. “It’s really traumatizing.”

Maloney said he and his clients are prepared to ask for a congressional inquiry if they don’t get answers soon. He called on the Secret Service to publicly release details of the incident, including why it started and who was involved. He said they want to see the incident report and body camera footage if it exists. They’re also calling for the Secret Service to suspend the responsible officers.

Winston said she and Johnson have spent the days since the incident paranoid and traumatized. She is seeking therapy. Johnson is afraid to drive alone and avoids leaving the house.

“We don’t get in trouble. Nothing like this has ever happened to us,” Winston said. “I thought the police was here to serve and protect us, and now it’s really uncomfortable.”

 

I was really on their side then I read the first kid’s name. Then I was all for her getting abused. Then I read the second kid’s name and laughed and was on their side again.

Moral of the story. Don’t pick shitty names? I am an asshole?

[Tuco 5093]

So, here's a good case study on the mentality which makes #DefundThePolice necessary:

County board buys sheriff a 1.85M mobile command center with Covid relief funds.

Quote

Douglas County plans to spend $1.85 million in federal coronavirus relief aid to buy a mobile command center for the county sheriff.

One Douglas County board member described it as “a tool in our toolbox” for fighting COVID-19. But critics on the board called it “the boondoggle of all boondoggles” and compared it to a vehicle featured in a Bill Murray movie.

The Douglas County Sheriff’s Office told the board that the “state-of-the-art, self-contained” vehicle would be used to help with anticipated mass vaccination efforts in rural parts of the county and in Omaha neighborhoods. The vehicle will “enhance our overall collective efforts at combating the coronavirus and any other natural or man-made disaster,” said Capt. Wayne Hudson.

...

“When you take on mass vaccinations, it is a horrendous job,” Borgeson said. “And this would add a tool to our first responders for doing that. And I use first responders in terms of not only law enforcement, but our public health officials, because our public health ... nurses and our doctors are the ones who really, truly during this pandemic I consider our first responders, and so this would add another tool to the toolbox in order to provide the services that are much needed, or will be needed when a vaccination is available.”

...

“Please step aside and let us put it to rent assistance; there are people who are really in trouble in this community,” Boyle told Sheriff Tim Dunning.

 

“I”m not walking away,” Dunning said.

...

“The Douglas County Health Department would be able to perform their critical public health function directly from the field because of the many capabilities within the mobile command center,” Hudson said. “Just what are those capabilities? They’re able to do this because the mobile command center is a self-contained unit that is capable of operating remotely for up to three days without refueling. All functions of the Douglas County Health Department can be done remotely at the scene of any public health emergency.”

...

Douglas County Health Director Adi Pour said she didn’t know specifically how the vehicle would be used by her department. She mused that it might have a canopy to protect people from the weather as they walked up for services. Pour was diplomatic on the question of need.

“We would use the vehicle, there is no question about it,” Pour said. “Do we need it? It would be nice for us to have, let’s put it that way.”

“Is it necessary for you to have it?” Boyle asked.

“It’s necessary for us to have a vehicle so we can go into the neighborhoods,” Pour replied.

So, the rationale for this boondoggle is that the vaccination program would be run through the police, by police (who are not trained in public health), utilizing tools that are customized for law enforcement, rather than vaccination programs.  It's just fucking insane that they can vocalize, and maybe even believe, it.  

A couple of other points, specific to Omaha/Douglas County:

- 80% of the population in Douglas County are Omaha residents.  I would guess another 10% are in small connected towns and unincorporated suburbs.  It is not a rural county. It's maybe 20 miles E/W and 10 miles N/S.  It's not the fucking Australian outback.  Getting rural residents vaccinations is trivial.  

- If you drive a county sheriff van into North Omaha (predominantly black community) or South Omaha (predominantly Latino community), it is going to be counter-productive in trying to get vaccinations to the residents.  They are already reasonable suspicious of government run vaccination programs; it's extremely stupid to compound that with adding cops to the mix. 

- The Douglas County sheriff office does not patrol Omaha.  They aren't the police force responsible for crowd control/security at large events in Omaha.  That's the OPD.  Even the small towns in the county have their own local PD, although I imagine they request help if bad shit is happening...which, is probably once in a decade.  The sheriff maybe patrols the county roads, and of course enforces county orders, like evictions.  Even on a purely law enforcement basis, they don't need a fucking RV. 

[UpperWestside 6263]

1 hour ago, Nivek said:

 

I was really on their side then I read the first kid’s name. Then I was all for her getting abused. Then I read the second kid’s name and laughed and was on their side again.

Moral of the story. Don’t pick shitty names? I am an asshole?

When I was younger I remember meeting a woman and I told her about someone I knew whose given name was Latronio (Went by the nickname Tweety) and she said her mother gave her a “job name.” She had a run-of-the-mill name that I don’t even remember anymore, but was due to her mother worrying about her job prospects one day. Even the name you give your child can be worrisome for African-Americans. Imagine selecting a name for your child while thinking about how that name could affect their ability to be employed as an adult depending upon who is in charge of the hiring process. You may never even get an interview for having a name considered to be too “ethnic.” or different from the norm. My own name is uncommon here in the US (Common in other parts of the world). Anytime I have applied for jobs and the topic of my name comes up it usually leads to a conversation about how I got the name and it is always  pleasant. Those same people who felt like talking about my name would almost never, if ever,  have that same conversation with either of the two children from that article if they were even able to get to the interview stage at all. Look at the storefront window racism President Obama got and still gets from millions of Americans for not only being African-American, but also for having a name that sounded “too Muslim” for their liking.
 

I know your response was joking. Seeing those names just took me back to that moment. To me it’s another example of living in two different and completely unequal worlds.

Edited August 4, 2020 by UpperWestside

[Biff Tannen 46069]

6 hours ago, UpperWestside said:

My own name is uncommon here in the US (Common in other parts of the world)

Mohammed?  McLovin?

[Anastasis 23704]

1 minute ago, Biff Tannen said:

Mohammed?  McLovin?

Phoung?

[UpperWestside 6263]

2 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Mohammed?  McLovin?

McMoLovin.

[Anastasis 23704]

Winston’s son, G’esus, is 6 months old. Johnson’s son, Sir Quincy, is 13 months.

 

As long as the baseline credentials are satisfied, I am hiring anybody with the name G'esus on the spot. 

[UpperWestside 6263]

4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Winston’s son, G’esus, is 6 months old. Johnson’s son, Sir Quincy, is 13 months.

 

As long as the baseline credentials are satisfied, I am hiring anybody with the name G'esus on the spot. 

I love the uniqueness of the names. 
 

The story from that article is infuriating though. I cannot fathom the fear those women felt having a loaded rifle pointed at their heads. Policing on every level in this country is a completely fucked up dumpster fire. 

[Prepuce of Doom 21260]

First three tweets in this thread are worth reading. 

 

[Brisketexan 106669]

First three tweets in this thread are worth reading. 
 

For police, QI is absolute immunity. If you want to get extra-ragey, spend some time reading QI opinions out of our very own 5th Circuit court of appeals. The mental gymnastics and inconsistency is impressive. See, when the govt official involved is an ordinary official, bureaucrat, etc...well, the court is pretty harsh, and construes QI narrowly...because “conservatives” loath government and government functionaries. Bunch of leeches sucking on the taxpayer tit, so fuck em.

But when the official is a cop...QI is rigorously applied. And unless that EXACT circumstance occurred before so as to “clearly establish” the law for such a circumstance, well, how was that cop to know how to act?

It is a license to, literally, kill. With impunity. Cops have a free pass in this country. And some courts - those with any sense of decency and justice - are becoming fed up with it.

[TwiceHorn 31996]

This isn't directly relevant to cops, but rather to broader justice reform.

Take a look at this headline, which I plucked from google news, via both fox and NY Post, both reliable right wing publications:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-gang-member-involved-in-3-drive-by-shootings-after-being-released-without-bail-in-may-report

So, a guy is picked up for attempted murder and then "released without bail" and goes on to do armed gangbanger stuff.  Scary.  Makes bail reform look bad.

But, you read the article and it contains this:

Quote

“At the time of arraignment the sole eyewitness had recanted so we did not have sufficient evidence to keep the defendant in custody,” a spokesperson for the Brooklyn District Attorney’s Office told the outlet. “The investigation is continuing and we hope other witnesses come forward.”

So, the defendant was released from custody because of a lack of evidence.  Meaning they had to dismiss any indictment.  While it is true that he was released without bail, it was not because of some librul judge or bail reform policy.  They dismissed the whole damn case.  Also, most bail reform measures wouldn't apply to attempted murder.

This story is a lie.

Edited August 5, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Rougarou 594]

27 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

This isn't directly relevant to cops, but rather to broader justice reform.

Take a look at this headline, which I plucked from google news, via both fox and NY Post, both reliable right wing publications:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-gang-member-involved-in-3-drive-by-shootings-after-being-released-without-bail-in-may-report

So, a guy is picked up for attempted murder and then "released without bail" and goes on to do armed gangbanger stuff.  Scary.  Makes bail reform look bad.

But, you read the article and it contains this:

So, the defendant was released from custody because of a lack of evidence.  Meaning they had to dismiss any indictment.  While it is true that he was released without bail, it was not because of some librul judge or bail reform policy.  They dismissed the whole damn case.  Also, most bail reform measures wouldn't apply to attempted murder.

This story is a lie.

What is the price of tea in China?

[UpperWestside 6263]

15 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

For police, QI is absolute immunity. If you want to get extra-ragey, spend some time reading QI opinions out of our very own 5th Circuit court of appeals. The mental gymnastics and inconsistency is impressive. See, when the govt official involved is an ordinary official, bureaucrat, etc...well, the court is pretty harsh, and construes QI narrowly...because “conservatives” loath government and government functionaries. Bunch of leeches sucking on the taxpayer tit, so fuck em.

But when the official is a cop...QI is rigorously applied. And unless that EXACT circumstance occurred before so as to “clearly establish” the law for such a circumstance, well, how was that cop to know how to act?

It is a license to, literally, kill. With impunity. Cops have a free pass in this country. And some courts - those with any sense of decency and justice - are becoming fed up with it.

And the citizens of this country who are fed up with the whole system are standing up and telling cops to shove QI right up their entitled and racist asses.
 

Brisket I know you and your family are doing more than your part to help enact reform in many different areas of the justice system and I would imagine this would be one of them. The fight against these entitled fascists is not an easy one, but the end result is worth the extensive effort and perseverance required to upend an entire system of injustice. The only thing I can really think of to say anyone “backing the blue” or not wanting to do the hard work is fuck you and enjoy being left behind in your racist construct. You’ll have plenty of Leo’s joining you soon.

[maninblack 7975]

 

[Prepuce of Doom 21260]

Look at this oblivious bozo. 

 

[maninblack 7975]

 

[HenryJames 67129]

 

[Foosters 18235]

This is an interesting story. Local LA Fox reporter (who seems to be the official media spokesman for the LAPD, and also the "reporter" that broke the story about the tampon in the cops coffee which also turned out to be false) publishes a story that City Councilman Mike Bonin is voting to slash funding to the LAPD despite the fact that Bonin himself called the LAPD trying to get them to clear protesters from outside his property.

Hypocritical and infuriating, right?

This local story made its way around the conservative news universe:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/la-councilman-who-voted-to-slash-police-budget-called-officers-eight-times-to-his-house-records-show

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8608673/LA-councilor-voted-slash-funds-police-called-cops-home-EIGHT-TIMES-April.html

Shockingly, it turns out to be fake. Bonin did NOT make those calls, and the LAPD intentionally fed that lie to the reporter.

Bonin's office puts out a statement today:

[UpperWestside 6263]

I am sure an apology was immediately issued from the reporter spreading false propaganda about the LA councilman as well as the other outlets who ran with it without actually doing their job and checking to see if it was true. Fuck these wannabe fascists and fuck the police.

Edited August 13, 2020 by UpperWestside

[Brisketexan 106669]

Oh.....here's a fun bit that's all over FB, getting thousands upon thousands of shares etc.....

Quote

FOR THOSE OF YOU IN AUSTIN........
It’s a very sad day in Texas and for everyone who visits our great capital city of Austin...
Good Bless Austin PD
From an Austin Police Officer after being gutted today...
Dear Community,
We have served with the best of our ability for many years. We have missed anniversaries, birthdays, funerals, sports, and many other things so we could be there for you. When you called, we came. When you were being victimized, we stepped in and stopped it. When you were on your last breath, we gave you another and another. As many as it took to keep you alive. We held your child and loved on them when they were scared. We comforted you when your loved ones passed. We put our lives in harms way when the wolf came for you. When you ran from gunfire, we ran towards it. When you sat trapped in your car, we held your hand until the rescue crew could cut you out. We bought you lunch when others walked by and did nothing. We brought justice to your family when someone was taken from you. We gave you a voice when you had none. We stepped in when you couldn’t protect yourself. We saved your son’s, daughter’s, husband’s, aunt’s, brother’s, and sister’s.
The day came when we needed your help, BUT YOU NEVER SHOWED. When we asked you to stand up and give us a voice, you remained silent. When we were at our lowest, you offered no help. When we were being attacked, you watched from afar. When the time came for you to fight for us, you stayed home and kept silent. (To those who didn’t, thank you.)
The Austin Police Department has been almost completely defunded. There is barely enough to pay for our salary, medical care, and retirement. Now, when the wolf puts a bomb at your doorstep, we won’t be there. When a drunk driver kills your family member, we won’t be there. When your family member is drowning at the lake, we won’t be there. When someone crashes into your car, we won’t be there. When gangs take over your neighborhood, we won’t be there. When you’re assaulted on one of the many trails, we won’t be there. When you’re child is lost, we won’t be there to find them.
We won’t be there because your Austin City Council has shut down almost every unit needed to keep you safe and be there for you. They took everything from you while you sat in silence. They did it for their own personal gain and agenda. They won’t be there for you and made sure we couldn’t either.
Your Guardian,
An Austin Police Officer

I mean, other than the fact that almost the entire thing is a lie, sure, it's solid.  Jesus.  That this is even associated with APD (and more than one officer has commented favorably on this post) is enraging.  How little respect do they have for us, the people?  That they would just flatly lie like hell?

$150 million in long-term cuts, only $20 million of which go into effect this year.....to a budget of $434 million.  And Chief Manley already made quite clear that patrol levels will be maintained (so, all of that "protect us" stuff is still in place).

We don't just need to defund the police more, we need to purge them of shitheels who would lie like hell in order to terrorize the people.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Brisketexan

[fattyflattie 4640]

150 cut from 434, or 20 of 434? 

[Brisketexan 106669]

20 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

150 cut from 434, or 20 of 434? 

20 redirected immediately, 150 long-term.  And note, it's not all "cuts" -- much is redirection -- like taking certain 911 call center duties from under the police umbrella and placing them under broader command.

Read what I posted.  It's domestic terrorism, holding the people hostage.  "Give us money, and let us do EXACTLY what we want, EXACTLY the way we want it....or we won't do our job of protecting you."  That's the language of a mob racket, not fucking public servants.  Fuck 'em.  At this point, I'm having a hard time figuring out how we're not better off without them. 

Given a choice between being protected by terrorists who hold me and mine in utter contempt, and just protecting ourselves.....yeah, I may want to just go it alone.  The cops are doing themselves no favors -- at every opportunity, they are proving themselves to be exactly who their critics say they are.

[Anastasis 23704]

In related news, APD announces that they will no longer be staffing an Internal Affairs division. 

[Jiggy-Z 3507]

3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

In related news, APD announces that they will no longer be staffing an Internal Affairs division. 

source?

[Anastasis 23704]

1 minute ago, Jiggy-Z said:

source?

It was a joke. 

But I would be absolutely unsurprised if they shift some of their resources around.  

[gsoda3 3358]

4 minutes ago, Jiggy-Z said:

source?

i think it was a joke.  but it's telling that one can't be sure.

[Jiggy-Z 3507]

2 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

It was a joke. 

But I would be absolutely unsurprised if they shift some of their resources around.  

That is what I was thinking, that there had been some non-joke reorg that disbanded  the Internal Affairs Division and put its function in some other division.

[Jiggy-Z 3507]

Just now, Jiggy-Z said:

That is what I was thinking, that there had been some non-joke reorg that disbanded  the Internal Affairs Division and put its function in some other division.

Also, I used to be an internal auditor and had a good running friend of mine who became an APD internal affairs officer after he left public accounting, so close to home and all that.

[Rougarou 594]

"Give us money, and let us do EXACTLY what we want, EXACTLY the way we want it....or we won't do our job of protecting you."  That's the language of a mob racket, not fucking public servants.  Fuck 'em.  At this point, I'm having a hard time figuring out how we're not better off without them. 

I had the thought the other day that what you've been saying on these threads reminded me of what you are accusing here in this quite (I guess it really is true; all accusations are confessions), in that rioters/looters, protesters, civil disobedience, etc.'s job is to harass the city and people who are indifferent or disagree until they get what they want. A bit of an extortion, though the premise is  "well if you cared about the injustice and the root casues of the problems we wouldn't have people throwing paint bombs at people every night and looting the Gucci store, just as soon as you give that up then we will quit."

It's the other side of the coin. It's the "good extortion" in relation to the term "good trouble", may he rest in peace.

[Brisketexan 106669]

1 hour ago, Rougarou said:

 

 

I had the thought the other day that what you've been saying on these threads reminded me of what you are accusing here in this quite (I guess it really is true; all accusations are confessions), in that rioters/looters, protesters, civil disobedience, etc.'s job is to harass the city and people who are indifferent or disagree until they get what they want. A bit of an extortion, though the premise is  "well if you cared about the injustice and the root casues of the problems we wouldn't have people throwing paint bombs at people every night and looting the Gucci store, just as soon as you give that up then we will quit."

It's the other side of the coin. It's the "good extortion" in relation to the term "good trouble", may he rest in peace.

Which one of those groups literally has, as their entire job, to serve and protect the public.

Terrorists suck.  Terrorist who demand that I fund their terrorism against me SUPER suck.  That you can't see the significance of that distinction is problematic (not that I concede that people seeking govt change are "terrorists").

It's. Their.  FUCKING.  JOB.  THAT I PAY THEM FOR, and that they want to be worshiped and adored for.  So, yeah, higher standard than random jagoff off the street.  In fact, the jagoff has the absolute right to petition his gov't for the redress of his grievances, so "give me what I want, government, or I'll raise hell" isn't terrorism -- it's fucking being an American, exercising a right enshrined in the damned Constitution.

If the cops don't want to do their job, then cool -- GTFO.  But they don't get to use MY money to hold ME hostage.  They can fuck right off with that shit.

Nevermind the cascade of utter lies in that post.  Want to address that?  Or are you cool with the people sworn to uphold the law with justice and integrity flat-out lying in order to get their way?  No need to answer.  We know.

[UpperWestside 6263]

1 hour ago, Rougarou said:

 

 

I had the thought the other day that what you've been saying on these threads reminded me of what you are accusing here in this quite (I guess it really is true; all accusations are confessions), in that rioters/looters, protesters, civil disobedience, etc.'s job is to harass the city and people who are indifferent or disagree until they get what they want. A bit of an extortion,

Sweet God you are dense and apparently have no idea what that word means. It is THEIR JOB to protect people. It is NOT THEIR JOB to harrass, beat, shoot and kill people of color just because they believe it is their right to do so. We pay for these racist idiots and the least that they can do is their actual job which they don't enjoy because it means no more killing black people like it's the Great Marianas Turkey Shoot for ACAB's.

[UpperWestside 6263]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Which one of those groups literally has, as their entire job, to serve and protect the public.

Terrorists suck.  Terrorist who demand that I fund their terrorism against me SUPER suck.  That you can't see the significance of that distinction is problematic (not that I concede that people seeking govt change are "terrorists").

It's. Their.  FUCKING.  JOB.  THAT I PAY THEM FOR, and that they want to be worshiped and adored for.  So, yeah, higher standard than random jagoff off the street.  In fact, the jagoff has the absolute right to petition his gov't for the redress of his grievances, so "give me what I want, government, or I'll raise hell" isn't terrorism -- it's fucking being an American, exercising a right enshrined in the damned Constitution.

If the cops don't want to do their job, then cool -- GTFO.  But they don't get to use MY money to hold ME hostage.  They can fuck right off with that shit.

Nevermind the cascade of utter lies in that post.  Want to address that?  Or are you cool with the people sworn to uphold the law with justice and integrity flat-out lying in order to get their way?  No need to answer.  We know.

Fire it up Brisket. These kinds of shit posts you responded to need to be confronted every single time they are made on here. These are the kinds of fools running amok out there saying stuff like extortion. Apparently demanding equal rights and to not get shot for being black is now getting that label. 

[Rougarou 594]

42 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Which one of those groups literally has, as their entire job, to serve and protect the public.

Terrorists suck.  Terrorist who demand that I fund their terrorism against me SUPER suck.  That you can't see the significance of that distinction is problematic (not that I concede that people seeking govt change are "terrorists").

It's. Their.  FUCKING.  JOB.  THAT I PAY THEM FOR, and that they want to be worshiped and adored for.  So, yeah, higher standard than random jagoff off the street.  In fact, the jagoff has the absolute right to petition his gov't for the redress of his grievances, so "give me what I want, government, or I'll raise hell" isn't terrorism -- it's fucking being an American, exercising a right enshrined in the damned Constitution.

If the cops don't want to do their job, then cool -- GTFO.  But they don't get to use MY money to hold ME hostage.  They can fuck right off with that shit.

Nevermind the cascade of utter lies in that post.  Want to address that?  Or are you cool with the people sworn to uphold the law with justice and integrity flat-out lying in order to get their way?  No need to answer.  We know.

I think you are right that cops being paid a job should do it, at a tactical, day-to-day level without taking the inputs of things and worrying about things at that "higher paygrade" level. Johnny Cop should just do his job. It doesn't matter if Johnny Cops precinct is getting 100% of their budget funded or 90% or 50%; just do the job in front of you and don't worry about the inner-workings or political detail. If you are called to a scene to help someone who had a break-in at Good Ole Boy Blvd or if someone was assaulted Protester U, you respond and do your job dispassionately, in the same professional way. I think we are 100% agreed on that, right?

In other words, I'm not condoning that cops should extort to get what they want politically. I agree with you it's a thing that happens and is potentially happening.

What my post was saying, though, was that the opposite side of the coin is that there are people who are willing and will be disruptive-- from the law-abiding and peaceful protesters to the destructive, violent and criminal end of the spectrum-- in order to get their change enacted. Their basic extortion principal is, "we are going to disrupt the system until it changes (i.e. we get what we want) and then we will stop." which is extortion 101. It's "good extortion" though, as I mentioned in my post. It's the good kind. Just like "good trouble" is still trouble. Opposite side of the coin.

If that observation bothers you, then maybe sit the rest of this one out, my dude.

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Rougarou

[Brisketexan 106669]

9 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

What my post was saying, though, was that the opposite side of the coin is that there are people who are willing and will be disruptive-- from the law-abiding and peaceful protesters to the destructive, violent and criminal end of the spectrum-- in order to get their change enacted. Their basic extortion principal is, "we are going to disrupt the system until it changes (i.e. we get what we want) and then we will stop." which is extortion 101. It's "good extortion" though, as I mentioned in my post. It's the good kind. Just like "good trouble" is still trouble. Opposite side of the coin.

If that observation bothers you, then maybe sit the rest of this one out, my dude.

Demanding performance from OUR government (of which we are literally and philosophically the owners) is not "extortion" -- good, bad, or otherwise.  It is seeking redress of our grievances.  Which is enshrined in the Constitution -- not as "extortion," but as a RIGHT.  So, yeah, your analogy sucks shit through a straw.

If you're pointing to JUST "the destructive, violent and criminal end of the spectrum-- in order to get their change enacted. Their basic extortion principal is, "we are going to disrupt the system until it changes (i.e. we get what we want) and then we will stop." which is extortion 101".....then I'd agree with you.  But you included "law-abiding and peaceful protesters" in that bucket....and that's dead-ass wrong.

We the people have a RIGHT "peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."  So if we're doing that, it is not extortion.  Not bad, not good, not any.  It is the system functioning as it is supposed to.  We are doing our JOB, as is our RIGHT, in demanding that our government do better.  That is not equal to the cops' bullshit extortion in any way, shape, or form.

And of course, I note that you skate right by the cascade of lies they peddle in that post.  Whistle right on past the graveyard.

[hobbes2702 13354]

27 minutes ago, Rougarou said:

I think you are right that cops being paid a job should do it, at a tactical, day-to-day level without taking the inputs of things and worrying about things at that "higher paygrade" level. Johnny Cop should just do his job. It doesn't matter if Johnny Cops precinct is getting 100% of their budget funded or 90% or 50%; just do the job in front of you and don't worry about the inner-workings or political detail. If you are called to a scene to help someone who had a break-in at Good Ole Boy Blvd or if someone was assaulted Protester U, you respond and do your job dispassionately, in the same professional way. I think we are 100% agreed on that, right?

In other words, I'm not condoning that cops should extort to get what they want politically. I agree with you it's a thing that happens and is potentially happening.

What my post was saying, though, was that the opposite side of the coin is that there are people who are willing and will be disruptive-- from the law-abiding and peaceful protesters to the destructive, violent and criminal end of the spectrum-- in order to get their change enacted. Their basic extortion principal is, "we are going to disrupt the system until it changes (i.e. we get what we want) and then we will stop." which is extortion 101. It's "good extortion" though, as I mentioned in my post. It's the good kind. Just like "good trouble" is still trouble. Opposite side of the coin.

If that observation bothers you, then maybe sit the rest of this one out, my dude.

 

I’m not extorting my employee by telling him to do his job or get fired. 

[Brisketexan 106669]

1 minute ago, hobbes2702 said:

I’m not extorting my employee by telling him to do his job or get fired. 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23367]

 

[UpperWestside 6263]

19 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I’m not extorting my employee by telling him to do his job or get fired. 

He has to be trolling at this point. It’s either that or he is as intentionally stupid and obtuse as Slorch is.

[Rougarou 594]

34 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Demanding performance from OUR government (of which we are literally and philosophically the owners) is not "extortion" -- good, bad, or otherwise.  It is seeking redress of our grievances.  Which is enshrined in the Constitution -- not as "extortion," but as a RIGHT.  So, yeah, your analogy sucks shit through a straw.

If you're pointing to JUST "the destructive, violent and criminal end of the spectrum-- in order to get their change enacted. Their basic extortion principal is, "we are going to disrupt the system until it changes (i.e. we get what we want) and then we will stop." which is extortion 101".....then I'd agree with you.  But you included "law-abiding and peaceful protesters" in that bucket....and that's dead-ass wrong.

We the people have a RIGHT "peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."  So if we're doing that, it is not extortion.  Not bad, not good, not any.  It is the system functioning as it is supposed to.  We are doing our JOB, as is our RIGHT, in demanding that our government do better.  That is not equal to the cops' bullshit extortion in any way, shape, or form.

And of course, I note that you skate right by the cascade of lies they peddle in that post.  Whistle right on past the graveyard.

I know this is going to sound crazy, but BrisketTexan, you are right and I was wrong. 
 

If you're pointing to JUST "the destructive, violent and criminal end of the spectrum-- in order to get their change enacted. Their basic extortion principal is, "we are going to disrupt the system until it changes (i.e. we get what we want) and then we will stop." which is extortion 101".....then I'd agree with you.  But you included "law-abiding and peaceful protesters" in that bucket....and that's dead-ass wrong.

 

Essentially I was grouping the good protesters and the bad ones (rioter and looter) into the same bucket of civil disobedience. You are right there is nothing disobedient about peaceful protestation in and of itself, as it is a right. The looters, rioters, Antifa, etc. are extorting with destructive disruption, as you agree, and it’s either valid “good trouble” or felonious violence depending on your philosophical stances.