I'm An Alcoholic

[Cashless752 11]

I'm serious. 

Theyd let me out after a weekend? Only person I knew who went to the hospital was kept for almost 10 days. 

Thanks -- I'm in San Antonio. 

[Dewey 3286]

I'd stay for 4 days minimum, let them handle my detox, let me sleep. Then I'd get some serious help and stay on it with a belief that even though I dont believe this will work, I'm still going to try and trust, because I dont have any better way of doing this .

You're way of quiting, no matter how many ideas.you can come up with and suck, they're full of fear and are chicken shit.

[Augustus 3061]

9 minutes ago, Cashless752 said:

I'm serious. 

Theyd let me out after a weekend? Only person I knew who went to the hospital was kept for almost 10 days. 

Thanks -- I'm in San Antonio. 

They can't force you to stay.

If you die from a seizure or heart failure the job's not gonna be relevant anymore.

I strongly recommend giving it at least 4-5 days.

I had an episode of bad shakes, flop sweat, dizziness and confusion TWO WEEKS after my last drink.

It's unpredictable.

Edited February 13, 2019 by Augustus

[JohnnyRage 1617]

@Cashless752

 

I would always recommend talking to your primary care physician, be honest with him.

I do think the weekend emergency room is a good choice although I have no experience with this. You can always call into work on Monday...for the right reasons this time.

I assume @Dewey meant 'Librium' rather than Lithium. People say it can be addictive, but I found that it just made me go to sleep if I took more than I should, and being sleepy was not necessarily my DOC. However, this is the easy way and may not convey to you the seriousness of detoxing the hard way which you may have to do at some point, nightmarish with no sleep.

Just so people are clear DT's, or Delirium Tremens, are not 'the shakes'. They are hallucinations and other such things when your body is trying to catch up on accrued missed REM cycles.

My worst side affect of self-detoxing, was insomnia that lasted a couple of days. If that sounds easy, it's not. Add in all the other pains, insanity, dehydration, shakiness, depression on top of not being able to sleep...brutal. Librium, Trazadone, Benadryl, Tylenol PM, or Chamomile Tea may help. Obviously consult your physician.

After getting free and clear from the medical side, sure as fuck check out a meeting.

Godspeed.

Edited February 13, 2019 by JohnnyRage

[Celery Man 20948]

2 hours ago, Augustus said:

They can't force you to stay.

If you die from a seizure or heart failure the job's not gonna be relevant anymore.

I strongly recommend giving it at least 4-5 days.

I had an episode of bad shakes, flop sweat, dizziness and confusion TWO WEEKS after my last drink.

It's unpredictable.

I'm kinda hesitant to speak up on your first part, but if they believe you're a danger to yourself they can put you on a psychiatric hold.  Which, I can't say that and not explain because I don't want to put any fear into Cashless around getting help, which he should not fear.  I will relay a bit of my experience - I was going on with another miserable continuation of my horrible existence and a friend started texted me demanding to know what was up and within an hour or two he had taken me to a hospital (after taking me to I think a psychiatric place, whatever is off of Rainey and they told him to take me to a hospital or take me to a bar).  I was fairly numb, maybe a little out of body, wasn't thinking through everything that was going on past "oh shit it's finally happening I can't hide anymore", and when the hospital folks were interviewing me I was maybe a bit more descriptive about the nature of how little you cherish your life as a bottomed out alcoholic than I should have been.  I was not suicidal, but they put a hold on me and while the end result was good, being held was not helpful to my mental state, and neither were whatever sedatives they put me on when I panicked, which led to some scary posting on here and then eventually a coma.

Cashless - you should not fear getting help.  There are plenty of people who have successfully gotten sober without going off to rehab.  If your drinking is fairly serious (if you have withdrawal symptoms when you don't drink) you should at least do what they are talking about with the supervised detox.

I'd like to talk a bit about what it sounds like is fear of getting help, or maybe fear of having your life interrupted. 

1) there are worse things than having your life temporarily interrupted

2) in my experience, there was a weird paradox between how much I thought people didn't know (when they did) and how much I thought they'd be mad or otherwise care (they weren't or they didn't).  If you are like me, people who are close to you know and definitely want you to get help.  And people who are not close to you might suspect or even know but don't care or aren't about the business of making your business their business.  Obviously your family falls into the category of know and want you to get help.

3) You mentioned your job, climbing the corporate ladder.  I was very concerned about my job.  I work for a very large corporation.  One of the things about very large corporations is that they deal with all sorts of problems, have dedicated HR people who are professionals in that field, and have procedures for fucking everything.  When I needed help (and went to an inpatient rehab, La Hacienda), I was out for a while.  I took an FMLA leave.  There were no problems with the bill.  I got a big card and a bunch of well wishes and an Amazon gift card when I came back.  Everything continued without me OK.  Very few people asked questions, nobody asked pointed questions, and nobody pushed when they got a not very descriptive answer.  Later on someone else was getting canned for tardiness/flakiness and it actually helped me that, when I had similar issues, it was documented that I received treatment for a medical condition and then the problems ceased (actually my rapid improvement led to several moves up the rung).  The HR person that handled my thing went off to a different place, my then boss went to another part of the company, a few years later I don't have any reason to believe that my mysterious absence back then is anything that anyone ever thinks about at all.  I was a run of the mill individual contributor, but still - this is a thing that people deal with, getting help is not a big black mark, at least not in my experience.  I chuckle internally in discrimination training things when someone else will bring up alcoholics as people that might be excluded if work outings are too bar centric.

 

I wrote a novel, I didn't mean to - Cashless, be careful and get adequate help if the drinking is serious.  Getting free of it is a wonderful thing.  Don't worry too much about all the bad things you think might happen if you have to take some time to dedicate to getting yourself well.  People need you and love you, if it's getting serious they probably know something is off and would love nothing more than for you to get your shit together.

First thing to do is to go to a meeting.  Let us know if you need help figuring out how to do that.  This, also, is no big deal.  It's an hour, everyone gets it, if you want to be a wallflower you can be a wallflower, but people there will help you.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Celery Man

[TwiceHorn 31469]

2 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I'm kinda hesitant to speak up on your first part, but if they believe you're a danger to yourself they can put you on a psychiatric hold.  Which, I can't say that and not explain because I don't want to put any fear into Cashless around getting help, which he should not fear.  I will relay a bit of my experience - I was going on with another miserable continuation of my horrible existence and a friend started texted me demanding to know what was up and within an hour or two he had taken me to a hospital (after taking me to I think a psychiatric place, whatever is off of Rainey and they told him to take me to a hospital or take me to a bar).  I was fairly numb, maybe a little out of body, wasn't thinking through everything that was going on past "oh shit it's finally happening I can't hide anymore", and when the hospital folks were interviewing me I was maybe a bit more descriptive about the nature of how little you cherish your life as a bottomed out alcoholic than I should have been.  I was not suicidal, but they put a hold on me and while the end result was good, being held was not helpful to my mental state, and neither were whatever sedatives they put me on when I panicked, which led to some scary posting on here and then eventually a coma.

Cashless - you should not fear getting help.  There are plenty of people who have successfully gotten sober without going off to rehab.  If your drinking is fairly serious (if you have withdrawal symptoms when you don't drink) you should at least do what they are talking about with the supervised detox.

I'd like to talk a bit about what it sounds like is fear of getting help, or maybe fear of having your life interrupted. 

1) there are worse things than having your life temporarily interrupted

2) in my experience, there was a weird paradox between how much I thought people didn't know (when they did) and how much I thought they'd be mad or otherwise care (they weren't or they didn't).  If you are like me, people who are close to you know and definitely want you to get help.  And people who are not close to you might suspect or even know but don't care or aren't about the business of making your business their business.  Obviously your family falls into the category of know and want you to get help.

3) You mentioned your job, climbing the corporate ladder.  I was very concerned about my job.  I work for a very large corporation.  One of the things about very large corporations is that they deal with all sorts of problems, have dedicated HR people who are professionals in that field, and have procedures for fucking everything.  When I needed help (and went to an inpatient rehab, La Hacienda), I was out for almost two months.  I took an FMLA leave.  There were no problems with the bill.  I got a big card and a bunch of well wishes and an Amazon gift card when I came back.  Everything continued without me OK.  Very few people asked questions, nobody asked pointed questions, and nobody pushed when they got a not very descriptive answer.  Later on someone else was getting canned for tardiness/flakiness and it actually helped me that, when I had similar issues, it was documented that I received treatment for a medical condition and then the problems ceased (actually my rapid improvement led to several moves up the rung).  The HR person that handled my thing went off to a different place, my then boss went to another part of the company, a few years later I don't have any reason to believe that my mysterious absence back then is anything that anyone ever thinks about at all.  I was a run of the mill individual contributor, but still - this is a thing that people deal with, getting help is not a big black mark, at least not in my experience.  I chuckle internally in discrimination training things when someone else will bring up alcoholics as people that might be excluded if work outings are too bar centric.

 

I wrote a novel, I didn't mean to - Cashless, be careful and get adequate help if the drinking is serious.  Getting free of it is a wonderful thing.  Don't worry too much about all the bad things you think might happen if you have to take some time to dedicate to getting yourself well.  People need you and love you, if it's getting serious they probably know something is off and would love nothing more than for you to get your shit together.

First thing to do is to go to a meeting.  Let us know if you need help figuring out how to do that.  This, also, is no big deal.  It's an hour, everyone gets it, if you want to be a wallflower you can be a wallflower, but people there will help you.

Good stuff.

The sense that the world will cease to rotate about its axis if you don't go to work for awhile; along with the fiction that none of your coworkers/bosses knows or has a pretty good idea, are symptoms of the inward-dwellingness that characterizes our malady.

[BearSchlong 8093]

Good stuff.
The sense that the world will cease to rotate about its axis if you don't go to work for awhile; along with the fiction that none of your coworkers/bosses knows or has a pretty good idea, are symptoms of the inward-dwellingness that characterizes our malady.

Exactly. Dont you know who I am?? I'm very important!

Cashless, godspeed. I did not go to rehab, I spent 3 days in a hotel room icing various parts of my body and then a week later went to an AA meeting and haven't had a drink since. But I was not an everyday drinker and thus did not experience difficult physical withdrawals.

I've NEVER EVER EVER met someone who regretted calling their company's EAP hotline and asking for help. I've seen them work miracles. I took a guy to a treatment center one evening and he called his employer (Starbucks) during the trip over there and they bent over backwards to help him. I know dozens of guys that made that call and never looked back, went to LaHa like Celery man and are doing very well now.

I used to be a frequent flyer at psych wards, had 3 x 1 week stays, and this was when I was working at a very prestigious technology company. It's ok to just hang up your spurs for a month or so and take a sabbatical to save your life.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

 

Not overly technical, but still some interesting tidbits

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/12/693940288/the-neuroscience-of-addiction

Fresh Air

The Neuroscience Of Addiction

February 12, 20194:30 PM ET

Growing up, Judith Grisel struggled with alcohol, marijuana and cocaine. Now, as a neuroscientist, she's working to understand the biological basis of addiction. Her new book is 'Never Enough.' Grisel talks about how various drugs affect the brain, and her own experience with addiction. Grisel has been clean and sober for 30 years.

[Cashless752 11]

Thanks all -- very valuable feedback. I actually had a great conversation with a rehab facility tonight. And I'm researching local groups to talk with. I feel really good about reaching out. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

On 2/5/2019 at 1:40 PM, Dertyberd said:

I know that alcoholism is a progressive disease that I was predisposed to genetically.  I also know that I have had quite a bit of trauma in my life beginning in childhood.  When I discovered alcohol as a treatment for some trauma in high school it became my solution.  I was able to use alcohol as my solution for life's ups, downs, and shocks until it no longer worked and my life became unmanageable.  I think if I would've properly treated the trauma in my life at an early age or when it arose throughout, I may have been lucky to not progress to a point where I know I'm an alcoholic and can't drink normally.  I believe there is something to that, certainly, and I think it is useful to young people who haven't gotten to the point that I did when my solution became my problem.  It could save lives to have the proper treatment available before a person begins to self medicate.  I see therapy working like more of a vaccine than a cure.  I know I can't go back to drinking normally through self knowledge/therapy.  I tried it when I got sober the first time and it almost killed me.  I wound up crazier drunk than I had ever been before.  

Trauma sucks, life is hard, but thank God I am free and happy today.  

I've danced around on this thread for years, here and on the other board under another handle, but now I am all in. Just did 23 days inpatient in H-Town -- six days in detox and 17 in residential. I'm now on a sort of parole -- nights at home (theoretically -- Mrs MaC ain't ready for that yet) -- and 8 to five at the center. I've got a badass sponsor and I am ready to rip this shit up. 

 As for childhood trauma, hell yeah, in my case. Ages three through eight were fucking horrible for me. I shared some of these stories with my counselor in a group session, and she enrolled me in a grief, loss and trauma group. I told some more stories in there and that counselor kicked me over to the shrinks, one of whom diagnosed me with PTSD. Forty years of PTSD I treated with nothing but alcohol and other substances and risky behaviors. I'm now 2/3 of the way through EMDR therapy and it is making a world of difference -- even if the eye movement test is a flop, the psychotherapy session I've already done leading up to it have made me pinpoint the exact worst moment in my childhood and begin the work on slaying that beast. This chick was on some Hannibal Lecter shit and I was Clarice. 

If you had a traumatic childhood, you need to work on that shit AND go to 12 Step. AA doesn't care how you got in that seat -- they just want to help you quit drinking, stay quit, and then help others to do the same. (And transform from selfish asshole to selfless man for others, as well.) That's an oversimplification, of course, but after attending about 30 12 step meetings in the last 23 days, that's my take in the broadest terms. I intend to keep coming back.

PARC believes in immersion in the steps AND treating the festering wounds that cause or abet it in some of us. I believe the disease is hereditary for some, the result of trauma for others, and others of us are lucky enough to have fallen from a family tree that was irrigated with vodka.and were subject to horrors we couldn't cope with.

How many combat veteran drunks might have remained normies were it not for war wounds or sights and sounds they can't erase from their minds? 

 

 

 

 

 

[TexArcher 37774]

Sounds like you're hitting it from all the right angles, MaC.  Hang in there.  It's a long road to long-term sobriety, but absolutely everything is better.

[TwiceHorn 31469]

8 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I've danced around on this thread for years, here and on the other board under another handle, but now I am all in. Just did 23 days inpatient in H-Town -- six days in detox and 17 in residential. I'm now on a sort of parole -- nights at home (theoretically -- Mrs MaC ain't ready for that yet) -- and 8 to five at the center. I've got a badass sponsor and I am ready to rip this shit up. 

 As for childhood trauma, hell yeah, in my case. Ages three through eight were fucking horrible for me. I shared some of these stories with my counselor in a group session, and she enrolled me in a grief, loss and trauma group. I told some more stories in there and that counselor kicked me over to the shrinks, one of whom diagnosed me with PTSD. Forty years of PTSD I treated with nothing but alcohol and other substances and risky behaviors. I'm now 2/3 of the way through EMDR therapy and it is making a world of difference -- even if the eye movement test is a flop, the psychotherapy session I've already done leading up to it have made me pinpoint the exact worst moment in my childhood and begin the work on slaying that beast. This chick was on some Hannibal Lecter shit and I was Clarice. 

If you had a traumatic childhood, you need to work on that shit AND go to 12 Step. AA doesn't care how you got in that seat -- they just want to help you quit drinking, stay quit, and then help others to do the same. (And transform from selfish asshole to selfless man for others, as well.) That's an oversimplification, of course, but after attending about 30 12 step meetings in the last 23 days, that's my take in the broadest terms. I intend to keep coming back.

PARC believes in immersion in the steps AND treating the festering wounds that cause or abet it in some of us. I believe the disease is hereditary for some, the result of trauma for others, and others of us are lucky enough to have fallen from a family tree that was irrigated with vodka.and were subject to horrors we couldn't cope with.

How many combat veteran drunks might have remained normies were it not for war wounds or sights and sounds they can't erase from their minds? 

 

 

 

 

 

Glad you are getting some help.  I have heard of that EMDR and understand that it can be effective, but know very little about it and frankly it just sounds hokey, but what the hell.  ECT sounds hokey too and it's extremely effective.

Yeah it doesn't matter how your got here, just glad you are here.

Also a note for newbs:  there are a few AA groups (usually groups within a group) that heavily criticize to the point of discouraging, all psychotherapy and related medications.    They seem to believe that AA is either the cure for everything or that alcoholic/addicts don't have other clinical mental health issues. They seem to be rare, though, thankfully, as this is a poisonous idea.

HOWEVER, and this is important and most psychological professionals would agree with it:  most AA "members" believe that psychotherapy while actively addicted and using (and even probably for some weeks or months after you stop) is not helpful and can even be counterproductive to recovery (and most psych meds carry warnings about taking them and drinking).  So a crusty old AA may shit on what your therapist told you six months ago when you were in his office fucked up or nursing a hangover and lying your ass off.  Or s/he may tell you to get on with the steps before seeing a therapist or starting up that Effexor.  Do not conflate this advice with the old shitbirds described above.  Many of us had our depression, anxiety and other disorders resolve after extended sobriety in the program.  Some of us needed extra help, though, and that's ok.

 

Also, MaC, if I may inquire.  Was your childhood trauma of a sexual nature?  The reason I ask is that I think there is a tendency among us to dismiss trauma that isn't either the battlefield or of a sexual nature.  And I don't think that is valid.  Childhood (or adult) trauma can take a lot of forms and it seems that some of us are more susceptible than others.  Obviously no obligation to answer.

Edited February 14, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31469]

9 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

 

Not overly technical, but still some interesting tidbits

https://www.npr.org/2019/02/12/693940288/the-neuroscience-of-addiction

Fresh Air

The Neuroscience Of Addiction

February 12, 20194:30 PM ET

Growing up, Judith Grisel struggled with alcohol, marijuana and cocaine. Now, as a neuroscientist, she's working to understand the biological basis of addiction. Her new book is 'Never Enough.' Grisel talks about how various drugs affect the brain, and her own experience with addiction. Grisel has been clean and sober for 30 years.

Good stuff.  I heard and heard of Nora Volkow from Fresh Air, I believe, or another NPR program. Text version

Edited February 14, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Sparky 149]

When I was in rehab they did EMDR therapy on me for some old issues I had trouble shaking, well never really tried to shake, and I thought it was some type of hypnosis and almost laughed at it the first time.  But I have it a chance and it made a difference, especially with one issue that had plagued me for years.  I know it did something because after each session I would feel really exhausted the rest of the day and they said that was common.  

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

10 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Glad you are getting some help.  I have heard of that EMDR and understand that it can be effective, but know very little about it and frankly it just sounds hokey, but what the hell.  ECT sounds hokey too and it's extremely effective.

Yeah it doesn't matter how your got here, just glad you are here.

Also a note for newbs:  there are a few AA groups (usually groups within a group) that heavily criticize to the point of discouraging, all psychotherapy and related medications.    They seem to believe that AA is either the cure for everything or that alcoholic/addicts don't have other clinical mental health issues. They seem to be rare, though, thankfully, as this is a poisonous idea.

HOWEVER, and this is important and most psychological professionals would agree with it:  most AA "members" believe that psychotherapy while actively addicted and using (and even probably for some weeks or months after you stop) is not helpful and can even be counterproductive to recovery (and most psych meds carry warnings about taking them and drinking).  So a crusty old AA may shit on what your therapist told you six months ago when you were in his office fucked up or nursing a hangover and lying your ass off.  Or s/he may tell you to get on with the steps before seeing a therapist or starting up that Effexor.  Do not conflate this advice with the old shitbirds described above.  Many of us had our depression, anxiety and other disorders resolve after extended sobriety in the program.  Some of us needed extra help, though, and that's ok.

 

Also, MaC, if I may inquire.  Was your childhood trauma of a sexual nature?  The reason I ask is that I think there is a tendency among us to dismiss trauma that isn't either the battlefield or of a sexual nature.  And I don't think that is valid.  Childhood (or adult) trauma can take a lot of forms and it seems that some of us are more susceptible than others.  Obviously no obligation to answer.

It was not sexual -- my mother was a violent, thieving, lying, heroin/codeine addict / alcoholic. She tried to stab my dad in front of me when I was four and then set my bedroom on fire (with me in it) a few months later. That's just a couple of cherries on top of the shit sundae she whipped up for me between the ages of three and eight, when she abandoned me with no warning.

The treatment center I attend is not big on mood drugs, at least not in early recovery. They take a wait and see approach -- very often, anxiety disorders, depression and bipolar syndrome are symptoms of alcoholism rather than standalone illnesses. (Not always, of course, but frequently.)

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Thoughts on sober living? I'm on my first night here in Houston and it seems alright so far. It's a pretty lenient joint -- not too many rules, weeknight curfew of ten, weekends midnight, bumped back two hours if your sponsor verifies you as Step 5. I'm in my own 'hood and my roomie from rehab is across the hall. 

[BearSchlong 8093]

I vote yes on sober living.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

I'm a strong supporter of living sober.

[TwiceHorn 31469]

On 2/14/2019 at 7:02 PM, MaybeACoordinator said:

It was not sexual -- my mother was a violent, thieving, lying, heroin/codeine addict / alcoholic. She tried to stab my dad in front of me when I was four and then set my bedroom on fire (with me in it) a few months later. That's just a couple of cherries on top of the shit sundae she whipped up for me between the ages of three and eight, when she abandoned me with no warning.

The treatment center I attend is not big on mood drugs, at least not in early recovery. They take a wait and see approach -- very often, anxiety disorders, depression and bipolar syndrome are symptoms of alcoholism rather than standalone illnesses. (Not always, of course, but frequently.)

 

Appreciate the candor.  Sorry you went through that.  Sounds like you have gotten some really solid help.  Sober living is good stuff, but honestly, most/all of the people I know that have availed themselves of it were chronic relapsers, and, for the most part (some remain to be seen a little), it has been a success.  That certainly doesn't mean it is inappropriate for someone first shot out of the treatment box.  I hope it's helpful.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

11 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Thoughts on sober living? I'm on my first night here in Houston and it seems alright so far. It's a pretty lenient joint -- not too many rules, weeknight curfew of ten, weekends midnight, bumped back two hours if your sponsor verifies you as Step 5. I'm in my own 'hood and my roomie from rehab is across the hall. 

I had way too much pride to even countenance it once I was discharged from PHP, but the ~10 days or so that I spent in it was valuable. If nothing else, it rolled into the "I don't ever want to have to do this again" montage I play in my head if I ever need to sanity check myself about what a relapse would be like. The relationships with other men were great, and we actually did have some good times. I wouldn't go back for love or money but-- but-- I do sometimes think back to piling in the van and heading to whatever meeting the supervision had picked for us and it is kind of a happy memory.

[Sparky 149]

13 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Thoughts on sober living? I'm on my first night here in Houston and it seems alright so far. It's a pretty lenient joint -- not too many rules, weeknight curfew of ten, weekends midnight, bumped back two hours if your sponsor verifies you as Step 5. I'm in my own 'hood and my roomie from rehab is across the hall. 

If it helps you ease back into society from rehab then it's good I say.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

I've been in treatment for about four weeks and the number of relapses that have already popped up is amazing and depressing. 

There's the distinguished older exec for some offshore company who just got out of rehab about two weeks ago. His called him at his sober house and asked him to come get her at the airport, so he picked up her Mercedes, got loaded, and totaled it on the way to the airport. He claimed he had only "three glasses of chardonnay" and "hit a wall" with her car. There's little doubt he crashed into a wall, but some are skeptical about those three glasses. Maybe they were like those goblets you get in old-school beer joints. 

"She's pissed," he told me, and believe it or not he looked kind of bewildered that she would be upset with him over that little stunt. Not sure if he got rung up with a DWI but he's doing a few more days back in rehab before heading back to the sober house. 

There's a twentysomething kid who came back in days after he got out of PHP to do a week more residential. He admitted he wasn't ready, and we all applauded him for doing the right thing. So he celebrates the week by going out with two of the other young pups, both of whom were either PHP or IOP, and the driver gets in a drunken wreck. Rumor has it she was picked up for DWI. He and the other dude left the scene, and later that same night this kid scored some smack and OD'd. As of yesterday he was said to be in ICU.

With the kids you can see who's gonna use as soon as they hit the gates; hell, there was talk that the driver chick was stoned on heroin in her PHP / IOP classes. (You only get UA'd once, unless you give cause, I think.) But then there was also that 60-something exec, who I'll bet lives in a multi-million dollar house. And yeah I know offshore ain't what it used to be but damn...

 

[David Dennison 18858]

6 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I've been in treatment for about four weeks and the number of relapses that have already popped up is amazing and depressing. 

There's the distinguished older exec for some offshore company who just got out of rehab about two weeks ago. His called him at his sober house and asked him to come get her at the airport, so he picked up her Mercedes, got loaded, and totaled it on the way to the airport. He claimed he had only "three glasses of chardonnay" and "hit a wall" with her car. There's little doubt he crashed into a wall, but some are skeptical about those three glasses. Maybe they were like those goblets you get in old-school beer joints. 

"She's pissed," he told me, and believe it or not he looked kind of bewildered that she would be upset with him over that little stunt. Not sure if he got rung up with a DWI but he's doing a few more days back in rehab before heading back to the sober house. 

There's a twentysomething kid who came back in days after he got out of PHP to do a week more residential. He admitted he wasn't ready, and we all applauded him for doing the right thing. So he celebrates the week by going out with two of the other young pups, both of whom were either PHP or IOP, and the driver gets in a drunken wreck. Rumor has it she was picked up for DWI. He and the other dude left the scene, and later that same night this kid scored some smack and OD'd. As of yesterday he was said to be in ICU.

With the kids you can see who's gonna use as soon as they hit the gates; hell, there was talk that the driver chick was stoned on heroin in her PHP / IOP classes. (You only get UA'd once, unless you give cause, I think.) But then there was also that 60-something exec, who I'll bet lives in a multi-million dollar house. And yeah I know offshore ain't what it used to be but damn...

Best of luck, my brother. Kick its ass.

AMDG.

[Richard Kimball 1495]

On 2/13/2019 at 7:00 PM, Celery Man said:

I'm kinda hesitant to speak up on your first part, but if they believe you're a danger to yourself they can put you on a psychiatric hold.  Which, I can't say that and not explain because I don't want to put any fear into Cashless around getting help, which he should not fear.  I will relay a bit of my experience - I was going on with another miserable continuation of my horrible existence and a friend started texted me demanding to know what was up and within an hour or two he had taken me to a hospital (after taking me to I think a psychiatric place, whatever is off of Rainey and they told him to take me to a hospital or take me to a bar).  I was fairly numb, maybe a little out of body, wasn't thinking through everything that was going on past "oh shit it's finally happening I can't hide anymore", and when the hospital folks were interviewing me I was maybe a bit more descriptive about the nature of how little you cherish your life as a bottomed out alcoholic than I should have been.  I was not suicidal, but they put a hold on me and while the end result was good, being held was not helpful to my mental state, and neither were whatever sedatives they put me on when I panicked, which led to some scary posting on here and then eventually a coma.

Cashless - you should not fear getting help.  There are plenty of people who have successfully gotten sober without going off to rehab.  If your drinking is fairly serious (if you have withdrawal symptoms when you don't drink) you should at least do what they are talking about with the supervised detox.

I'd like to talk a bit about what it sounds like is fear of getting help, or maybe fear of having your life interrupted. 

1) there are worse things than having your life temporarily interrupted

2) in my experience, there was a weird paradox between how much I thought people didn't know (when they did) and how much I thought they'd be mad or otherwise care (they weren't or they didn't).  If you are like me, people who are close to you know and definitely want you to get help.  And people who are not close to you might suspect or even know but don't care or aren't about the business of making your business their business.  Obviously your family falls into the category of know and want you to get help.

3) You mentioned your job, climbing the corporate ladder.  I was very concerned about my job.  I work for a very large corporation.  One of the things about very large corporations is that they deal with all sorts of problems, have dedicated HR people who are professionals in that field, and have procedures for fucking everything.  When I needed help (and went to an inpatient rehab, La Hacienda), I was out for a while.  I took an FMLA leave.  There were no problems with the bill.  I got a big card and a bunch of well wishes and an Amazon gift card when I came back.  Everything continued without me OK.  Very few people asked questions, nobody asked pointed questions, and nobody pushed when they got a not very descriptive answer.  Later on someone else was getting canned for tardiness/flakiness and it actually helped me that, when I had similar issues, it was documented that I received treatment for a medical condition and then the problems ceased (actually my rapid improvement led to several moves up the rung).  The HR person that handled my thing went off to a different place, my then boss went to another part of the company, a few years later I don't have any reason to believe that my mysterious absence back then is anything that anyone ever thinks about at all.  I was a run of the mill individual contributor, but still - this is a thing that people deal with, getting help is not a big black mark, at least not in my experience.  I chuckle internally in discrimination training things when someone else will bring up alcoholics as people that might be excluded if work outings are too bar centric.

 

I wrote a novel, I didn't mean to - Cashless, be careful and get adequate help if the drinking is serious.  Getting free of it is a wonderful thing.  Don't worry too much about all the bad things you think might happen if you have to take some time to dedicate to getting yourself well.  People need you and love you, if it's getting serious they probably know something is off and would love nothing more than for you to get your shit together.

First thing to do is to go to a meeting.  Let us know if you need help figuring out how to do that.  This, also, is no big deal.  It's an hour, everyone gets it, if you want to be a wallflower you can be a wallflower, but people there will help you.

Yeah, but it was a good novel. Would read again. 

Two things that struck me while reading it are that first, I was embarrassed to think people knew I was stopping drinking, but wasn't embarrassed when staggering around doing stupid things cause I was drunk. The second thing is that I spent a lot of time thinking other people were paying that much attention to my life. It's a weird thing that's hard to explain, but my ego had me thinking other people were tuning in for the next episode of "what's RK doing today?" when most people don't pay attention at all if I'm not doing something that directly affects their lives. 

[Dewey 3286]

I've been in treatment for about four weeks and the number of relapses that have already popped up is amazing and depressing. 
There's the distinguished older exec for some offshore company who just got out of rehab about two weeks ago. His called him at his sober house and asked him to come get her at the airport, so he picked up her Mercedes, got loaded, and totaled it on the way to the airport. He claimed he had only "three glasses of chardonnay" and "hit a wall" with her car. There's little doubt he crashed into a wall, but some are skeptical about those three glasses. Maybe they were like those goblets you get in old-school beer joints. 
"She's pissed," he told me, and believe it or not he looked kind of bewildered that she would be upset with him over that little stunt. Not sure if he got rung up with a DWI but he's doing a few more days back in rehab before heading back to the sober house. 
There's a twentysomething kid who came back in days after he got out of PHP to do a week more residential. He admitted he wasn't ready, and we all applauded him for doing the right thing. So he celebrates the week by going out with two of the other young pups, both of whom were either PHP or IOP, and the driver gets in a drunken wreck. Rumor has it she was picked up for DWI. He and the other dude left the scene, and later that same night this kid scored some smack and OD'd. As of yesterday he was said to be in ICU.
With the kids you can see who's gonna use as soon as they hit the gates; hell, there was talk that the driver chick was stoned on heroin in her PHP / IOP classes. (You only get UA'd once, unless you give cause, I think.) But then there was also that 60-something exec, who I'll bet lives in a multi-million dollar house. And yeah I know offshore ain't what it used to be but damn...
 

My experience when I got out was hard, I needed to believe things would get better, to work even more on the steps than I did when I was in the house. I think when people leave treatment, they think "good enough", they get delusional or shit gets real, real quick. Just have faith in yourself and in the process, keep working, keep reading, seeking, things get better. Accept that instant gratification is no longer a thing and be good with it.

[TwiceHorn 31469]

It's uncanny how, once you make an attempt to get sober and relapse, the consequences come fast and hard.  Faster and harder than ever before. It's like cosmic comeuppance.

[Richard Kimball 1495]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's uncanny how, once you make an attempt to get sober and relapse, the consequences come fast and hard.  Faster and harder than ever before. It's like cosmic comeuppance.

This. The first time is like going down a water slide. The second time is jumping off the high board. Or maybe like a video game where you saved at a certain spot and picked up there. 

[Sparky 149]

12 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I've been in treatment for about four weeks and the number of relapses that have already popped up is amazing and depressing. 

There's the distinguished older exec for some offshore company who just got out of rehab about two weeks ago. His called him at his sober house and asked him to come get her at the airport, so he picked up her Mercedes, got loaded, and totaled it on the way to the airport. He claimed he had only "three glasses of chardonnay" and "hit a wall" with her car. There's little doubt he crashed into a wall, but some are skeptical about those three glasses. Maybe they were like those goblets you get in old-school beer joints. 

"She's pissed," he told me, and believe it or not he looked kind of bewildered that she would be upset with him over that little stunt. Not sure if he got rung up with a DWI but he's doing a few more days back in rehab before heading back to the sober house. 

There's a twentysomething kid who came back in days after he got out of PHP to do a week more residential. He admitted he wasn't ready, and we all applauded him for doing the right thing. So he celebrates the week by going out with two of the other young pups, both of whom were either PHP or IOP, and the driver gets in a drunken wreck. Rumor has it she was picked up for DWI. He and the other dude left the scene, and later that same night this kid scored some smack and OD'd. As of yesterday he was said to be in ICU.

With the kids you can see who's gonna use as soon as they hit the gates; hell, there was talk that the driver chick was stoned on heroin in her PHP / IOP classes. (You only get UA'd once, unless you give cause, I think.) But then there was also that 60-something exec, who I'll bet lives in a multi-million dollar house. And yeah I know offshore ain't what it used to be but damn...

 

I was pretty let down/discouraged when I got into treatment and heard all of the revolving door stories from others.  I would see some come back after being gone for a week usually.  Hell, one of the guys even had a accident that made the news a few days after he was out and he was a role model for us all when he was there.  At last count I heard there are 3 that are no longer with us.  Don't let them however defer you from why you're there, just focus on your recovery and hope that they eventually get the help that they need.  Hell much like college I wish I would have put in more effort when I was there but it did it's job and I'm building on what I learned there.  You got this!

[JohnnyRage 1617]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's uncanny how, once you make an attempt to get sober and relapse, the consequences come fast and hard.  Faster and harder than ever before. It's like cosmic comeuppance.

For this alcoholic I wouldn’t say that they come faster or harder, but it is definitely no longer any fun, offers no relief, solves nothing, and is definitely not worth.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

I watched a ‘Star Is Born’ last night without knowing very much about the movie. What the fucking fuck? (Great movie)

[BearSchlong 8093]

Oh hell yeah, when he pissed himself onstage. . .that was when I got into gratitude.

[BearSchlong 8093]

For this alcoholic I wouldn’t say that they come faster or harder, but it is definitely no longer any fun, offers no relief, solves nothing, and is definitely not worth.

Because they're seen for what they are rather than a run of bad luck.

[Sparky 149]

3 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's uncanny how, once you make an attempt to get sober and relapse, the consequences come fast and hard.  Faster and harder than ever before. It's like cosmic comeuppance.

This is a major factor in me staying sober.  I realize that for way too long I got away with stuff I shouldn't have.  In my mind if I were to relapse it would all come crumbling down on me, and I can't think of a scenario that would justify that.

[tucker 238]

Checking in. Want to emphasize to others that are new how important it is to find the right AA group. I keep trying new ones and amazed at how different each location and even times can be. I am struggling to find the right home group but clearly understand which ones aren't a fit. 

I could see how this can discourage people, because even though I have a flexible schedule the effort to try new ones is not inconsequential. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by tucker

[LarryTT 26]

5 minutes ago, tucker said:

Checking in. Want to emphasize to others that are new how important it is to find the right AA group. I keep trying new ones and amazed at how different each location and even times can be. I am struggling to find the right home group but clearly understand which ones aren't a fit. 

I could see how this can discourage people, because even though I have a flexible schedule the effort to try new ones is not inconsequential. 

Been following since TOB. Alcoholic wife (finally divorced after 41 years and 10 years of rehabs) and this is a major problem. Quits after one meeting saying they aren't 'my kind of people'. She won't try to get a sponsor either. Frustrating in a small town where there are just not many options. I read each of your stories and know the difficulties and struggles. Keep fighting.

[TwiceHorn 31469]

25 minutes ago, tucker said:

Checking in. Want to emphasize to others that are new how important it is to find the right AA group. I keep trying new ones and amazed at how different each location and even times can be. I am struggling to find the right home group but clearly understand which ones aren't a fit. 

I could see how this can discourage people, because even though I have a flexible schedule the effort to try new ones is not inconsequential. 

Going to disagree with you a bit here.  With a few exceptions, AA groups all carry the same message, and you can get as much out of (or put in) a biker or Lambda AA meeting, and sometimes more, than you get from a suburban meeting of professionals.  And it is important for the newb to understand that, as far as concerns their drinking, they have more in common with other AAs, of any walk of life, than with non-AAs.

But, it is worthwhile to feel comfortable at your regular meeting, and finding some personal identity with a sponsor can help smooth that out.  With longer-term sobriety, I encourage people to break out of their ruts and go to some 24-hour meetings, or in a rough part of town.  Ser

But it's an all-too-common newbie cop-out to focus on differences with individuals and groups in AA rather than on the similarities and principal purposes.

It's a symptom of the terminal uniqueness that afflicts us.

Alcoholics and addicts are the ultimate snowflakes.

EDIT:  See Larry's post above, exemplia gratia.

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[tucker 238]

Eh, I can understand the whole process over personality but when you are new to the program any friction will make it hard to keep. Not saying that one shouldn't, but it isn't easy to bare all ones faults to someone that you cannot relate to in any way. All my meetings have been positive, but I am not going to connect with someone who has been homeless or on the flip side someone who has been sober 20+ years.

My first meeting the discussion topic was sponsorship and what struck me was how much fit with your sponsor impacted success.   

[JohnnyRage 1617]

My first advice to someone new is to try different meetings and different groups, but @TwiceHorn is correct that it is paramount to look for similarities rather than differences. You can learn from any experience no matter how seemingly other worldly.

As far as success with a Sponsor, I think a desperation to listen, do work, and to turn off your brain is where it is found.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

one of the things that helps keep me sober is the knowledge that a guy I met during inpatient last summer, the guy who seemed to have things figured out and had the most solid plan for what to do once he got out, relapsed within a week and killed himself. 

[Genco 3040]

I get what tucker is saying. Some groups have a personality that differs from what you like, some are too big, whatever. I'm very attached to my group but I have a couple that I'd go to if I can't make my normal meeting.

That said, I'd go to a meeting I wasn't entirely comfortable in as opposed to not going. I'm going to a meeting at the Salvation Army with my sponsor to get some exposure to something different.

[El Diablo 4232]

I went to a meeting because that was the one that someone was willing to take me to. I grabbed the guy sitting next to me to be my sponsor because he was an active member and had some long term sobriety. I made him get me thru the steps. Different levels of desperation I guess.

[Cody2422 273]

Not exactly sure if I fall into the alcoholic category but nonetheless, today makes 60 days with no drink.  Longest I’ve gone without drinking in 17 years.  I’ll share more at a later date but can’t spill details of my situation on the www just yet.  God speed everyone 

Joshua 1:9 

Conquer the Fear

[TwiceHorn 31469]

18 hours ago, Genco said:

I get what tucker is saying. Some groups have a personality that differs from what you like, some are too big, whatever. I'm very attached to my group but I have a couple that I'd go to if I can't make my normal meeting.

That said, I'd go to a meeting I wasn't entirely comfortable in as opposed to not going. I'm going to a meeting at the Salvation Army with my sponsor to get some exposure to something different.

Yeah it's a paradox like many of the things surrounding recovery.  Going to a different meeting every now and then is a great idea.

[Bat Guano 359]

Seems like this could go here:

https://www.bonappetit.com/story/david-mcmillan-sober

Joe Beef guy gets sober.

[BearSchlong 8093]

Goodness gracious. This just happened.

I'm over at the Golden Nugget in Lake Charles for a belated valentines day getaway with the new wife. Been here lots of times in sobriety.

So I order a diet coke, wife orders a vodka tonic. We are playing slots so its loud.

When drinks are delivered the waitress hands me mine and I take a swig without sniffing it first. Spit it all over the carpet, its Jack and coke. Wife burst into tears (yep shes al anon alright) and I ask the waitress to please bring me back a REGULAR DIET COKE, QUICKLY. Shes does so and when she returns I smell it and take a big gulp and let her know that I haven't had a drink in 8 years and for very good reasons. She apologizes precisely, tells me her own mom is a recovered drunk.

Good lord that was weird. The taste, the mouth feel. Yikes.

I'd call my sponsor but he's picking up his 29 year chip right about now, so it's this group that has to hear about it.

Cunning baffling powerful. Yup I'm an alcoholic.

Off to dinner and a concert. Sober safe and sane, by Gods grace.

[Celery Man 20948]

Ugh.

Thankfully not that, but I picked up a little rectangle of dessert at the party of a work conference and took a bite - tiramisu.  That's twice that tiramisu has gotten me.  I don't think that a bite of tiramisu is probably enough to do much to me chemically speaking, but I felt funny for the rest of the night.

Also had a weird moment earlier in that day - a coworker of mine who used to be my boss (when I had to go away for a bit) and then was a very close peer for a long time (so, half mentor half close peer that i look up to greatly) and is now another level up heading another group came up to me and said something about "shirt" and "I'm really proud of you", and before I could figure out what the fuck that was about even enough to ask her for clarification there were some other people around.  I was confused because I was wearing a navy gingham shirt that... I like but hate because every single dude has the exact same shirt, and was kinda wandering around wondering if she was giving me shit for wearing a generic shirt.  And then I realized that she along with everyone in her group was wearing a t-shirt that said something like "ops rehab" and "the first step is admitting you have a problem".  That makes a bit of sense with their product, but I guess she was a little embarrassed of the shirt and wanted to say something.  And frankly she's not wrong - I'm not going to get bent out of shape, but I'm surprised that that idea went from conception to reality without anyone mentioning that it's kinda fucked up given the number of people who were going to be there, and with a customer group that's in one of those professions that is sometimes known for drinking.  It is interesting of our problem - how common it is (I think it's somewhere around 6-7% of people) and yet how little known it probably is to a lot of people that many of the people that they know are sober for that reason.

[BearSchlong 8093]

I had the tiramisu thing happen once too, then the baked Alaska a la flambe, and now the casino jack this afternoon. So 3 times I've had to spit stuff out.

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

Is alcohol in food something a lot of alkies are careful about? I had never thought about that and looked it up and did see people talking about how they avoid it. I switched mouthwash to non-alcohol and thought that might be a little extreme, but why chance it? I also won't drink N/A beer or whatever because I'm almost sure that would send me to bad places, but food wasn't something on my radar until now. 

I don't go to meetings, so you drunks are the only ones I hear about this stuff from. 

Day 292 for me. And really, I'm just now starting to feel good. But part of that was other health stuff that wasn't serious or alcohol related, just pain in the ass nagging injuries type stuff.  This has been the longest 292 days I could imagine, but I say that in a really good way. 

Not long because I've been miserable from not being able to drink, but long from being able to embrace every minute and slow down to take everything in. It wasn't some sort of meditation or state of mind I was trying to achieve, it just happened organically after month or 2 of sobriety. 

Before, 6 weeks would go by like it was a weekend, because it basically was. A really shitty, awful, long weekend, over and over, that wouldn't end even though somewhere inside of me I wanted it to be a Monday morning of different and new life.

And damn, it feels good that that new week finally started and continues.  

 

 

[Augustus 3061]

14 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Goodness gracious. This just happened.

I'm over at the Golden Nugget in Lake Charles for a belated valentines day getaway with the new wife. Been here lots of times in sobriety.

So I order a diet coke, wife orders a vodka tonic. We are playing slots so its loud.

When drinks are delivered the waitress hands me mine and I take a swig without sniffing it first. Spit it all over the carpet, its Jack and coke. Wife burst into tears (yep shes al anon alright) and I ask the waitress to please bring me back a REGULAR DIET COKE, QUICKLY. Shes does so and when she returns I smell it and take a big gulp and let her know that I haven't had a drink in 8 years and for very good reasons. She apologizes precisely, tells me her own mom is a recovered drunk.

Good lord that was weird. The taste, the mouth feel. Yikes.

I'd call my sponsor but he's picking up his 29 year chip right about now, so it's this group that has to hear about it.

Cunning baffling powerful. Yup I'm an alcoholic.

Off to dinner and a concert. Sober safe and sane, by Gods grace.
 

I was in San Diego when A&M opened the season with UCLA a couple of years ago.  The San Diego A&M club was meeting at some sports bar to watch the game.  I was the first one to arrive.

I asked the waitress if they had root beer--my favorite soft drink..  She said yes.  It was something I'd never heard of called "Not your Mother's Root Beer."  Thinking nothing of it, I took a drink and swallowed what my mouth recognized as booze right away, but it was too late to stop the drink going down my gullet.  Small drink, thankfully.  But the few alcohol molecules hit my brain so fast it was it was beyond belief.

Fortunately, I didn't get enough to activate the craving, for which I thank God.  But for a few moments I definitely felt an effect.  The waitress and the bartender, to whom I returned the bottle, got a reaction they surely weren't expecting, as I was one very displeased customer.  After a few minutes, I decided to just take a lesson from it and resume enjoying my day.

(Of course, by the time a few hours had passed, we'd blown a 34 point lead and started the season in the most agonizing fashion 'I've ever experienced, so the day turned out to suck in a couple of very unanticipated ways).

 

[Augustus 3061]

23 minutes ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

Is alcohol in food something a lot of alkies are careful about? I had never thought about that and looked it up and did see people talking about how they avoid it. I switched mouthwash to non-alcohol and thought that might be a little extreme, but why chance it? I also won't drink N/A beer or whatever because I'm almost sure that would send me to bad places, but food wasn't something on my radar until now. 

I don't go to meetings, so you drunks are the only ones I hear about this stuff from. 

Day 292 for me. And really, I'm just now starting to feel good. But part of that was other health stuff that wasn't serious or alcohol related, just pain in the ass nagging injuries type stuff.  This has been the longest 292 days I could imagine, but I say that in a really good way. 

Not long because I've been miserable from not being able to drink, but long from being able to embrace every minute and slow down to take everything in. It wasn't some sort of meditation or state of mind I was trying to achieve, it just happened organically after month or 2 of sobriety. 

Before, 6 weeks would go by like it was a weekend, because it basically was. A really shitty, awful, long weekend, over and over, that wouldn't end even though somewhere inside of me I wanted it to be a Monday morning of different and new life.

And damn, it feels good that that new week finally started and continues.  

 

 

I never gave it much thought until I took a bite of a bread pudding with a "whiskey cream sauce."  The sauce tasted like a shot of bourbon.  If I know a food is prepared with any kind of alcohol, I pass.