I'm An Alcoholic

[BearSchlong 8098]

40 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Kudos to you for taking a huge first step.

The problem with hitting rock bottom, at least with the alcoholics I know, both practicing and recovering, is that we tend to lie there and roll around in it for a few years before we sober up.  By that point, our sense of self-worth is so battered that we know we've hit rock bottom, but doing something about it seems damn near impossible, and the idea of connecting with a bunch of preachy strangers is nauseating, and who is this alleged god?, and I can just drink through this weekend, really tie one on in a saying goodbye kind of way, then I'll try a meeting on Monday, start a new week off with a new lifestyle, and when that doesn't work I can just make it September 1st, start a new month off right, and eventually it can become my New Year's resolution, and you know what, it doesn't really even matter if I sober up anyway - my life has gotten so small and isolated and insulated that who would even notice?  And I like drinking.  Who's to say it's even wrong?  Everyone drinks or smokes pot or takes Prozac or Valium or goes to church.  Everybody's hooked on something.  You need a crutch to get through this.  So why should I...

Etc...

If you can quit before your mind starts thinking that way, and you can, you'll be saving yourself and those who care about you a lot of hurt.

Best of luck to you.  It's a hard road back, but there's a lot of help along the way.

Excellent insight, especially the part about rolling around in your bottom like a pig in a sty.  And once you sober up the potential to dive right back in with other areas of life (finances, sex, food, etc.) is really high. . .after all, I'm not drinking so it's progress not perfection, right?

But back to the rolling round in one's bottom and not being able to stop drinking, or getting a few weeks or months or even years dry time before relapse - I'm very grateful that though I wallowed in my bottom for several years after I should have recognized the un manageability (loss of family, house, career) my ultimate separation from alcohol was violent, painful, and immediate (car wreck). The fear of what might happen "next time" outweighed the thought of drinking and I had very little difficulty abstaining simply because I was terrified.  Thank God I still feel/think that way, even 8.5 years later.

Now If I can abandon myself and ask the almighty to keep me clean and dry on the fence above the mud then it'll be another successful 24 hours.

Glad I'm not alone in the struggle, and grateful that I can surrender.

[TwiceHorn 31478]

6 minutes ago, thestud said:

Well I’m back. Almost 3 months to the day of his relapse that caused a 3 day stay in ICU, my good friend and coworker is back on the bottle. Same song and dance as the previous two relapses, calls after the fact to confess his sins instead of reaching out when he’s having cravings/urges/moment of weakness. Already has all the answers and a plan to get back on the straight and narrow and knows exactly what caused him to relapse.

Myself and several other coworkers have gone above and beyond to be there for him, constantly checking in on him and making sure he’s still taking care of business. He’s not relapsing because of a lack of love and support from his friends and family. I just can’t for the life of me figure out how to help him. My fear is that before Christmas we’ll be planning a funeral. He seems to constantly be looking for any excuse to drink and it feels like his desire to drink far exceeds his desire to be healthy and sober.

That is, unfortunately, the nature of the beast.  It's time to detach.  Lovingly, but nevertheless.

[Kennythetiger 9384]

Walk away, if you can.  

[Kennythetiger 9384]

You might be right.  But unfortunately, so are we.  

[JohnnyRage 1617]

23 minutes ago, thestud said:

I know you guys are the experienced veterans here and I appreciate the advice greatly; that’s why I came to this thread. But I feel like, and this could just be my narcissism, that if we walk away that will be the last straw and he’ll really go off the deep end. I’m not sure I’m mentally ready or capable of doing that because I’m scared to death of what I think it will do to him.

There's monthly injections of Naltrexone, might even be longer. Expensive, but at least he won't be able to feel the effects of alcohol.

And when you can't feel the effects of alcohol, what's the fucking point? Most of it taste like ass anyways if we are being honest and objective.

[TwiceHorn 31478]

To try to rationalize it, the only thing that's going to flip his switch is consequences.  You have detailed that he has experienced all manner of consequences.  Well, one that he has yet to experience is the detachment of his true friends.

Although you are not enabling him in the conventional ways, covering for him, etc., a thorough analysis of your (meaning you and your other buds) relationship with him would probably reveal some form of enablement.  It's best for you and best for him that you detach and let him experience the consequence of not having his friends at his "beck and call."

[BearSchlong 8098]

@thestud your conscience is 100% clear.  You've already gone to heroic lengths to try to help him.

Tell him you're going to allow him the dignity of experiencing the consequences of his direct actions.

 

[ztejas 43452]

It's been awhile, friends. 

Wanted to post for two reasons:

1. I'm one week sober for the first time in what I estimate to be almost 2 years. 

2. I owe a lot of it to disfulram/antibuse. i.e. the medication that makes you sick and hungover as shit if you drink while on it. I actually don't know if this is true or not - it could just be a placebo for all I know. I take the pill in the morning and then I don't drink. I'm not interested in finding out how it makes me feel if I drink while on it. 

Anything I would call "rock bottom" is in the past (including multiple near-death experiences) - but what wasn't in the past was veering closer and closer to total dependence. Drinking every day, drinking during the day, drinking after getting up on the weekends - I didn't want to keep going down that path to see how far I could take it. 

I felt like shit. I was going through bad episodes of depression and anxiety - feelings that have in large part lifted after just a week clean. I was getting fat - my pants quit fitting, my double chin was getting bigger, I was running up my credit card - I didn't like any of it and wanted to get on the path to reversing it. I hope I'm on that path now. I'm going back to school in a week for my master's and don't want to be the fuck up, broke, alcoholic grad student that flunks out and moves back in with Mom. 

Overall I haven't had some epiphany or given myself over to Jesus or even attended a meeting (yet). For some people those things work, they haven't worked for me (again, yet). I was a narcissistic, asshole, isolated alcoholic that ultimately needed a drug to quit for just 7 days. But I'm now confident that I can come back next week with 14 days sober, and the week after that with 21. 

So, I guess the point for this post is that everyone is different, and however much I hate/hated taking the "easy way out" or relying on others or being told what to do, all I needed to do to get to a week was shut the fuck up and listen to my psych (which is selling it short a little bit - it's still hard and I have a wonderful support network around me). It's not impossible until you've tried everything, and even then it might take more than one crack at the rock. I've done this before, I can do it again - you can do it too. Many of you already have, I really respect everyone here that's a month, year, 5 years, 20 years sober - but shit, just getting to a week feels like a huge fucking accomplishment and weight lifted. 

Feel free to help hold me accountable and hopefully I can celebrate one month clean with a Horns ass-whipping of Tiger on September 7th. 

Cheers

[TwiceHorn 31478]

The fact that you have yet to experiment with Antabuse is promising.  Good luck with it.

[TexArcher 37774]

4 hours ago, thestud said:

I just can’t for the life of me figure out how to help him.

You can't.

It sucks and it hurts and that's the way it is.

 

4 hours ago, thestud said:

if we walk away that will be the last straw and he’ll really go off the deep end. 

I understand this completely.  But you're there for him now, and he's going off the deep end anyway, isn't he?  So you're afraid it'll speed up if you walk?  Well, maybe that's the best thing you could do for him.  

We talk about "the gift of desperation."  If he isn't absolutely desperate to change and willing to do whatever it takes, then I'm sorry to tell you that there's nothing you or anyone can do to help him.  Yet.

I didn't go to AA until I had drank my way out of a job and had a couple of months of 24/7 drinking and reflecting and realizing that I was 36 and wouldn't see 40 if I didn't quit.  And there's nothing anyone could have said or done to drag me into that AA room one day earlier.  And it was almost two years after that first meeting that I finally achieved sobriety for 6+ years and counting.

The point being: if he's determined to fall, you can't catch him.  You can be there to help pick him up someday, but realize that's probably a long way off.  Pray for him if you're the praying type.  But use today's energy on something you can accomplish today.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

So, I guess the point for this post is that everyone is different, and however much I hate/hated taking the "easy way out" or relying on others or being told what to do, all I needed to do to get to a week was shut the fuck up and listen to my psych (which is selling it short a little bit - it's still hard and I have a wonderful support network around me). It's not impossible until you've tried everything, and even then it might take more than one crack at the rock. I've done this before, I can do it again - you can do it too. Many of you already have, I really respect everyone here that's a month, year, 5 years, 20 years sober - but shit, just getting to a week feels like a huge fucking accomplishment and weight lifted. 

Feel free to help hold me accountable and hopefully I can celebrate one month clean with a Horns ass-whipping of Tiger on September 7th. 

Cheers

I truly fail to find the substance of how you are any different than the countless.

Like you, I'm extremely stubborn and clever and will work endlessly to figure out another way.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

@TexArcherYou 'parked' it in your earlier post.

 

(I'm wanting this to mean hit it out of the park, doesn't anyone else even say this? I'm an idiot)

[El Diablo 4232]

3 hours ago, ztejas said:

It's been awhile, friends. 

Wanted to post for two reasons:

1. I'm one week sober for the first time in what I estimate to be almost 2 years. 

2. I owe a lot of it to disfulram/antibuse. i.e. the medication that makes you sick and hungover as shit if you drink while on it. I actually don't know if this is true or not - it could just be a placebo for all I know. I take the pill in the morning and then I don't drink. I'm not interested in finding out how it makes me feel if I drink while on it. 

Anything I would call "rock bottom" is in the past (including multiple near-death experiences) - but what wasn't in the past was veering closer and closer to total dependence. Drinking every day, drinking during the day, drinking after getting up on the weekends - I didn't want to keep going down that path to see how far I could take it. 

I felt like shit. I was going through bad episodes of depression and anxiety - feelings that have in large part lifted after just a week clean. I was getting fat - my pants quit fitting, my double chin was getting bigger, I was running up my credit card - I didn't like any of it and wanted to get on the path to reversing it. I hope I'm on that path now. I'm going back to school in a week for my master's and don't want to be the fuck up, broke, alcoholic grad student that flunks out and moves back in with Mom. 

Overall I haven't had some epiphany or given myself over to Jesus or even attended a meeting (yet). For some people those things work, they haven't worked for me (again, yet). I was a narcissistic, asshole, isolated alcoholic that ultimately needed a drug to quit for just 7 days. But I'm now confident that I can come back next week with 14 days sober, and the week after that with 21. 

So, I guess the point for this post is that everyone is different, and however much I hate/hated taking the "easy way out" or relying on others or being told what to do, all I needed to do to get to a week was shut the fuck up and listen to my psych (which is selling it short a little bit - it's still hard and I have a wonderful support network around me). It's not impossible until you've tried everything, and even then it might take more than one crack at the rock. I've done this before, I can do it again - you can do it too. Many of you already have, I really respect everyone here that's a month, year, 5 years, 20 years sober - but shit, just getting to a week feels like a huge fucking accomplishment and weight lifted. 

Feel free to help hold me accountable and hopefully I can celebrate one month clean with a Horns ass-whipping of Tiger on September 7th. 

Cheers

Good luck ZT. For me, the only way I could get sober and stay sober was if some psychic change took place within me and I under my own power could not facilitate that change.

[Reagan1k 3024]

6 hours ago, thestud said:

He’s not relapsing because of a lack of love and support from his friends and family.

You are 100% correct here.  Outside influences are neither preventing him from drinking nor causing him to drink.  

He's relapsing because he is an alcoholic and has lost the power of choice in the matter.  That's what we do....we drink.

He is powerless over alcohol and if he's a drunk like me it will take finding a power greater than himself to stop the insanity.

Remember, he's always been stone cold sober when he took the 1st drink to start a relapse.....and he knew that to drink was to get drunk, but he did so anyway....in spite of loved ones, friends, support, trigger avoidance, relapse prevention plans, etc.  He's living where the drink takes him....he doesn't take the drink.

You can't surrender for him and you can't make him surrender.  But,  you can love him from a distance while praying his mind surrenders before his body does.  

God bless!  I pray he finally gets sick and tired enough to try another way.

[Reagan1k 3024]

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

The fact that you have yet to experiment with Antabuse is promising.  Good luck with it.

Yep - my mind would already be saying.......so....just how sick is sick?

Wishing you the best ZT!  Hope it works for you, and glad you know there's also hope in the steps and the rooms should you need it.

[hundredTT 578]

I posted on this thread back on shaggy. I had 2 and a half years without a drop until last November. Started with a few beers a day, and now I’m back to my fifth of vodka daily - usually hidden in water bottles mixed with sprite. Work stress sparked my drinking again, now it’s just a part of my daily routine and just helps me chill out after work and feel good. Today was the first day I started feeling very dizzy and hot,  just had my first drink and it all went away and I feel great. I know it’s a horrible path and I keep saying, okay this will be my last drink then I’ll started exercising and eat better...etc. then I don’t. I’m obviously full of shit and make excuses for myself constantly. Just thought I’d share, there’s so much secrecy in my drinking, def feel a lot of shame 

 

Edited August 14, 2019 by hundredTT

[Kennythetiger 9384]

We're a bunch of fucking drunks.  No matter how screwed-up your friend's situation is, I can guarantee that someone on this thread has done whatever he's doing, and probably worse. 

You and your other friends HAVE GOT to "hold the line", as the dude from Gladiator would say.  Please feel free to post here, whenever you would like.  I do a shitload of self-reflection when someone new comes on here, so you're doing us a favor even more than yourself.   

edit- my reply is to thestud- hundred posted the same time I did.  

Edited August 14, 2019 by Kennythetiger

[Kennythetiger 9384]

4 minutes ago, hundredTT said:

I posted on this thread back on shaggy. I had 2 and a half years without a drop until last November. Started with a few beers a day, and now I’m back to my fifth of vodka daily - usually hidden in water bottles mixed with sprite. Work stress sparked my drinking again, now it’s just a part of my daily routine and just helps me chill out after work and feel good. Today was the first day I started feeling very dizzy and hot,  just had my first drink and it all went away and I feel great. I know it’s a horrible path and I knew saying, okay this will be my last drink then I’ll started exercising and eat better...etc. I’m obviously full of shit and make excuses for myself constantly. Just thought I’d share, there’s so much secrecy in my drinking, def feel a lot of shame 

 

I am damn glad you're here.  You might need a little more professional/medical help than this board, though.  Think you could give your doctor a call tomorrow?  

[JohnnyRage 1617]

You parked it @hundredTT

 

Keep your chin up. You still have value.

[hundredTT 578]

I don’t think I’d go into withdrawals or anything if I quit drinking, but I suffer from anxiety, and sometimes drinking spikes my anxiety to panic attack levels where I think I’m stroking out, or it will completely drown my anxiety and I’m flying high. Had MRIs and EKGs and all that done when I thought I drank myself to death prior, with no results. I do feel I could quit again like the last time with just will power. Thing is, keeping sober obviously isn’t my strong suit, even though I made it around 3 years last go around.  Sometimes I don’t think I ever want to go full on sober because I do love getting buzzed and enjoying drinking with friends....my problem is when everyone stops, I’ll keep going or go to my vodka stash 

[Dewey 3286]

Quiting on your own, with just you, just your will power, fucking sucks. It's  deadly,  if withdraws dont get you, suicide will. Needs to be a better understanding. If you're going to quit, dont just change that one thing in your life, might as well change the things that make you want to drink. Like anxiety. Alcohol is helping you freak out, but also changing how you think about situations. Quit and get your mind right. 

 

[former alkie 72]

43 minutes ago, hundredTT said:

Sometimes I don’t think I ever want to go full on sober because I do love getting buzzed and enjoying drinking with friends....my problem is when everyone stops, I’ll keep going or go to my vodka stash 

Goodness

Man, I felt the exact same way, until January 2014.......at that time, I was a long-term, flat-out, functional alcoholic.

That's when I had seizure #4, and that last one was the eye opener.

I won't bore everyone with my whole story, but the last seizure landed me in the hospital, then in-patient treatment for 1 month.  Then, I had to attend daily, out-patient  therapy for 3 additional months (full day, part cognitive/speech).  I wasn't allowed to return to work, until given clearance by the therapist.

I had to make a decision to not lose my kids, my job, my home, and my life.

Never looked back, and have never had a desire to that return to my old ways.

I wish everyone on here, the absolute best \,,/

[hundredTT 578]

18 minutes ago, former alkie said:

Goodness

Man, I felt the exact same way, until January 2014.......at that time, I was a long-term, flat-out, functional alcoholic.

That's when I had seizure #4, and that last one was the eye opener.

I won't bore everyone with my whole story, but the last seizure landed me in the hospital, then in-patient treatment for 1 month.  Then, I had to attend daily, out-patient  therapy for 3 additional months (full day, part cognitive/speech).  I wasn't allowed to return to work, until given clearance by the therapist.

I had to make a decision to not lose my kids, my job, my home, and my life.

Never looked back, and have never had a desire to that return to my old ways.

I wish everyone on here, the absolute best \,,/

At what age did you suffer your first stroke if I may ask? I keep pushing the envelope and tell myself I’ll quit drinking soon. I feel like I just keep moving the needle back and back and something very bad is going to happen soon, which of course it will, if I don’t stop now. I’m 30 and have recently developed bad sleep apnea when I drink, which is everyday. My fiancée wakes up panicking because she thinks I died in my sleep from not breathing, then I’ll let out a huge gasp of air when she awakens me. My dreams are even fucked now convincing me I’m drowning or running to the point of not being able to catch my breathe, I wake up several times a night gasping for air. I know my body will give out if i keep going at this rate. Plus drinking has gotten me overweight so, my health is just all around not what it should be for a 30 year old man. I’m actually terrified of sleep now and just hope I pass out hard enough to sleep through the night knockedout. 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by hundredTT

[TwiceHorn 31478]

3 hours ago, thestud said:

Thank you guys, really thank you. I had to have a hard but necessary talk with BearSchlong this morning. Never in my life did I think I would spend 50 minutes of my morning at work talking about these problems with a complete stranger from the internet, but this is what I needed because I’m lost.

It’s crazy that several of you have echoed EXACTLY what Bear told me this morning. I had already made peace with myself that I was going to heed Bear’s advice, and not that it was needed but it’s truly spectacular to see the reaffirmation of his words from others here. I’ve made some phone calls and tomorrow I’ll be having breakfast with him, at which time myself and our friends will do what has to be done and quit enabling him. This sucks, but I’m at peace with it now. Thanks to of all of you

The thing that binds us together as drunks is the similarity of our experiences, both as drunks and in recovery and "collateral matters."  This is true regardless of how dissimilar other aspects of our lives may be or have been.  

And because those around drunks don't escape the collateral damage, it binds us together, too.  In the end, it's just being human.

Godspeed to you and your friends, both drunk and normie.

Edited August 15, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31478]

9 minutes ago, hundredTT said:

At what age did you suffer your first stroke if I may ask? I keep pushing the envelope and tell myself I’ll quit drinking soon. I feel like I just keep moving the needle back and back and something very bad is going to happen soon, which of course it will, if I don’t stop now. I’m 30 and have recently developed bad sleep apnea when I drink, which is everyday. My fiancée wakes up panicking because she thinks I died in my sleep from not breathing, then I’ll let out a huge gasp of air when she awakens me. My dreams are even fucked now convincing me I’m drowning or running to the point of not being able to catch my breathe, I wake up several times a night gasping for air. I know my body will give out if i keep going at this rate. Plus drinking has gotten me overweight so, my health is just all around not what it should be for a 30 year old man. I’m actually terrified of sleep now and just hope I pass out hard enough to sleep through the night knockedout. 

 

Not that it matters all that much, but by "seizure," I'm reasonably sure he means a "detox seizure," or one that comes as part of delirium tremens, i.e. the DTs.  These seizures occur after extended periods of elevated blood alcohol level that suddenly drops.  It's more common when one tries to stop drinking "cold turkey," but can also happen during a dry period when there's no intention to stop drinking.

Such seizures and related cardiac events can be very dangerous, but they aren't strokes in the conventional sense.

[hundredTT 578]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Not that it matters all that much, but by "seizure," I'm reasonably sure he means a "detox seizure," or one that comes as part of delirium tremens, i.e. the DTs.  These seizures occur after extended periods of elevated blood alcohol level that suddenly drops.  It's more common when one tries to stop drinking "cold turkey," but can also happen during a dry period when there's no intention to stop drinking.

Such seizures and related cardiac events can be very dangerous, but they aren't strokes in the conventional sense.

Ahh yes meant seizure. I actually minored in addiction studies, by far I’m not close to an expert. But I know most consequences, and still just keep boozing. Just finished a fifth of vodka now, and can tell from just a month ago, I could keep drinking more. Whereas then, I was fully satisfied. 

[TwiceHorn 31478]

1 minute ago, hundredTT said:

Ahh yes meant seizure. I actually minored in addiction studies, by far I’m not close to an expert. But I know most consequences, and still just keep boozing. Just finished a fifth of vodka now, and can tell from just a month ago, I could keep drinking more. Whereas then, I was fully satisfied. 

Yeah "abstract" consequences like health, productivity, expense, etc. don't seem to make a dent in most of us.  Fairly dramatic things like car crashes, DWIs, loss of relationships, jobs, etc. tend to have to come crashing down before we start to get a clue.

Kind of like AA is a program of action that changes thoughts, rather than a program of thought, it takes some action most of the time to catch our attention.  Could be that they are related.

[Reagan1k 3024]

2 hours ago, hundredTT said:

I know it’s a horrible path and I keep saying, okay this will be my last drink then I’ll started exercising and eat better...etc. then I don’t. I’m obviously full of shit and make excuses for myself constantly. Just thought I’d share, there’s so much secrecy in my drinking, def feel a lot of shame 

@hundredTT  Man.....that's my script.  I would always draw a line in the sand.  "If it ever gets X-bad I'll finally stop".  X never comes because the disease keeps moving the goal posts for me.

That's what alcoholism is...cunning, baffling, powerful......progressive and fatal.  No amount of living on sheer willpower can keep me sober AND sane at the same time for any length of time and certainly not for good.   Even when given sufficient reason to stop, I can't stop and stay stopped with any sanity.

Left to try and manage on my own, I'll always be throwing willpower against the problem and have no more success than if I waded out into the Gulf intent to stopping the incoming tide.  It'll wash around me and eventually over me until I succumb to death or insanity.

The beautiful part is that there is a solution and I can recover from that hopeless state....I can't be cured but I can recover from the suffering and obsessions...the depression and the anxiety.

Reach out and grab the solution.  Just try....what can it hurt?  The bottle isn't going anywhere.  It's worth a shot.  Get in a meeting and listen to people who have experience in abandoning their old way of thinking and dependence on doomed-to-fail self reliance.

It's not easy, but it is simple.  It's the only good life I've ever known and it is not some smokey theory.  There are living, breathing men and women who will put their arm around your shoulder and show you the way.

Good luck and godspeed.

 

 

 

[pch 1259]

9 hours ago, ztejas said:

It's been awhile, friends. 

Wanted to post for two reasons:

1. I'm one week sober for the first time in what I estimate to be almost 2 years. 

2. I owe a lot of it to disfulram/antibuse. i.e. the medication that makes you sick and hungover as shit if you drink while on it. I actually don't know if this is true or not - it could just be a placebo for all I know. I take the pill in the morning and then I don't drink. I'm not interested in finding out how it makes me feel if I drink while on it. 

Anything I would call "rock bottom" is in the past (including multiple near-death experiences) - but what wasn't in the past was veering closer and closer to total dependence. Drinking every day, drinking during the day, drinking after getting up on the weekends - I didn't want to keep going down that path to see how far I could take it. 

I felt like shit. I was going through bad episodes of depression and anxiety - feelings that have in large part lifted after just a week clean. I was getting fat - my pants quit fitting, my double chin was getting bigger, I was running up my credit card - I didn't like any of it and wanted to get on the path to reversing it. I hope I'm on that path now. I'm going back to school in a week for my master's and don't want to be the fuck up, broke, alcoholic grad student that flunks out and moves back in with Mom. 

Overall I haven't had some epiphany or given myself over to Jesus or even attended a meeting (yet). For some people those things work, they haven't worked for me (again, yet). I was a narcissistic, asshole, isolated alcoholic that ultimately needed a drug to quit for just 7 days. But I'm now confident that I can come back next week with 14 days sober, and the week after that with 21. 

So, I guess the point for this post is that everyone is different, and however much I hate/hated taking the "easy way out" or relying on others or being told what to do, all I needed to do to get to a week was shut the fuck up and listen to my psych (which is selling it short a little bit - it's still hard and I have a wonderful support network around me). It's not impossible until you've tried everything, and even then it might take more than one crack at the rock. I've done this before, I can do it again - you can do it too. Many of you already have, I really respect everyone here that's a month, year, 5 years, 20 years sober - but shit, just getting to a week feels like a huge fucking accomplishment and weight lifted. 

Feel free to help hold me accountable and hopefully I can celebrate one month clean with a Horns ass-whipping of Tiger on September 7th. 

Cheers

Welcome back.  Hope you surrender fully to the program of AA as it sounds like you have the same problem as me.  You are among friends as you mentioned and the door is open, so come on, surrender, sit all the way down in a chair in a meeting, ask for the help you need by getting a sponsor, and get started on working those twelve steps.  I made this choice on April 28, 1998, and have found a reason not to drink each day since thanks to following those suggestions from men who cared enough to hold me accountable.  You're on my list-the good one as I will be asking the God of my understanding to help you step into the program fully surrendered.  Good luck.

[former alkie 72]

2 hours ago, hundredTT said:

At what age did you suffer your first stroke if I may ask? 

Yes, they were seizures.....thank goodness never had a stroke.......and thank goodness none were while driving.

Don't mind at all being asked.....I believe the first one was at age 48.....the most severe was at 49.   I'm 55 now, and never been in better health.

I love my neurologist - he shoots straight, but has a healthy sense of humor.   I'll never forget him telling me that, while he can never definitely say that my drinking was the absolute "cause" of the seizures, "it certainly didn't help."  I see him every 6 months...I always ask if the alcohol or seizures have caused my short term memory loss, and he makes me feel better by saying, "you're just getting old.....start taking notes." 

I'm so glad this thread exists

 

[hundredTT 578]

So much knowledge in  this thread. Thanks again brothers for all the responses, definitely soaking it all in. 

[Celery Man 20951]

12 hours ago, hundredTT said:

I don’t think I’d go into withdrawals or anything if I quit drinking, but I suffer from anxiety, and sometimes drinking spikes my anxiety to panic attack levels where I think I’m stroking out, or it will completely drown my anxiety and I’m flying high.

You were just talking about getting hot and dizzy and it going away when you have your first drink.  And the spikes of anxiety.

You're already in a jackpot buddy, we can help you try and get out of it /nocountry .  Been there, that part is really tough.  Keep hanging out, don't be afraid to get help.  You can google tapering off and see how that works out for you, it's what I did (but not how I succeeded).

[TexArcher 37774]

Yeah, be careful with physical withdrawals.  Hands shaking slightly, sweating, feelings of anxiety on day 1 are warning signs.

If, after half a day to a full day without alcohol, you're really shaking, like arms and legs, you're at high risk for a seizure.  And if you have cognitive issues, like visual or auditory hallucinations, you're at risk for DTs.  In either case, go directly to a doctor.  

The first time I went through it, I did an outpatient detox at a free clinic here in Austin since I'd lost my job and health insurance.  They made me come in every morning and sit through a meeting, then gave me the Librium for the day.  5 days is all it takes: 3 for the alcohol to clear your system and 2 more to taper off the Librium.  The second time I did it, I went to an emergency clinic and told them I'd already been through detox, but had a relapse.  The doc tested me and confirmed that I was in severe withdrawals (no shit), confirmed that I had a support group and a sponsor, and wrote me the scrip for 5 days of Librium.

A note on Librium: it will mimic the effects of alcohol on your nervous system and allow your body to kick the alcohol out without shocking your nervous system into seizures.  It didn't make me high or anything, just really tired.  If you think there is ANY chance that you'll have a rough withdrawal, be smart and make it easy on yourself.

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

11 minutes ago, thestud said:

Hundred, my coworker was sober for a little over 5 months. He relapses for 3 days and then got sober on his own completely cold turkey. He called me to tell me he was almost two days sober and feeling great. Less than two hours later he was hallucinating and was taken in to the hospital by the cops on a mental health warrant because he thought he was back in Afghanistan. He even called the cops to tell them that he had caught two Taliban trying to break into his car and he had them locked in his trunk. Two seizures and three days in ICU later the doctor told us he’s lucky to be alive and he won’t survive another withdrawal. Don’t try and do this on your own, get help.

Also, if you are thinking about going cold turkey, don't just dismiss thestud's story as his friend simply having PTSD from being a soldier. I came off cold turkey and had very bad hallucinations and I've never been in the military or really any situation to cause me to mentally react the way I did to quiting without medical help. Not saying it will happen to you, but that's also what I thought about myself. I had quit maybe 10 times by myself and had never had a reaction like that, so I didn't think about being monitored when I stopped that time. 

I was just taking a break, too. Not even trying to quit for good. I also couldn't figure out what the fuck happened to me. The alcohol withdrawl wasn't even on my radar. It took me a few months after I had quit to piece together a lot of events over that previous year and a lot of reading to make me realize that those hallucinations were 100 percent from that. And it was some scary shit. 

I only remember bits and pieces of it, but I was ordering Uber's to go to parties (I don't go to parties) that didn't exist, with friends of friends who didn't exist. Crawling around the sidewalks of my nieghborhood looking for the Uber driver's keys that he had lost. Yelling at my neighbors who were asking me why I was crawling around the neighborhood yelling at nobody at 3 in the morning. Thinking my Uber driver and his family and their dog were all in my  backyard looking for the keys and yelling at them to leave. Thinking there were raccoons inside my house. Just bizzare shit. I actually had ordered Uber and Lyft because there were charges, but that's all I know. 

I found out later that those sorts of DT's can be brought on by liver disease, which I didn't know I had. But now I do. So it was too late for me in that regard. My liver's cirrhotic. There's no going back from that. My life has been significantly shortened and that's something I have to think about everyday. That's something I had to tell my mother and my father and my sister and my close friends. You, and anyone stuggling with this, think about what that conversation is going to be like with your family if it comes to that. And the conversations you have with yourself everyday when you're wondering how the fuck you could let it go that far. I hope I'm not being preachy, just trying to give you my personal reality that might make you think about it from my perspective, so hopefully it doesn't become yours. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Thanks for sharing @BBQ2Bayou

Edited August 15, 2019 by JohnnyRage

[ztejas 43452]

14 hours ago, Dewey said:

Quiting on your own, with just you, just your will power, fucking sucks. It's  deadly,  if withdraws dont get you, suicide will. Needs to be a better understanding. If you're going to quit, dont just change that one thing in your life, might as well change the things that make you want to drink. Like anxiety. Alcohol is helping you freak out, but also changing how you think about situations. Quit and get your mind right. 

 

Good post. I've definitely struggled with/continue to struggle with the notion of "just quit drinking, everything will be fine!" and it isn't that simple at all. I think changing other bad habits or the things that helped facilitate drinking in the first place is just as hard. 

Thanks for giving me something to keep with me today. 

[Dewey 3286]

20 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Good post. I've definitely struggled with/continue to struggle with the notion of "just quit drinking, everything will be fine!" and it isn't that simple at all. I think changing other bad habits or the things that helped facilitate drinking in the first place is just as hard. 

Thanks for giving me something to keep with me today. 

We have to change who we are and how we think, to take it easy.

[Kennythetiger 9384]

24 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Good post. I've definitely struggled with/continue to struggle with the notion of "just quit drinking, everything will be fine!" and it isn't that simple at all. I think changing other bad habits or the things that helped facilitate drinking in the first place is just as hard. 

Thanks for giving me something to keep with me today. 

I think they call that "dry vs. sober" or something similar.  I was lucky enough to be able to quit cold turkey- did not have addiction issue, but was headed there, and I had wholeheartedly done a cannonball into the disregarding consequences swimming pool.  After I quit drinking everything got even shittier until I realized that there's a whole lot to do besides just quitting drinking.  I had expected everything to just magically be better the next day.  Quitting drinking was actually the easiest part for me.  All that other shit these guys preach about is really hard work, but not much changes if you don't do it.

[BearSchlong 8098]

@ztejas good luck.  Very glad to hear you're making the effort.

I spent 22 years wandering the wilderness on the Dupont diet, i.e. better living through chemistry.

For me personally, here's what I found to be the easiest, most meaningful, and incredibly graceful way out - I found that if I cut the bullshit and started being rigorously honest with myself then I would be willing to do anything.

Quote

Rarely have we seen a person fail who has thoroughly followed our path. Those who do not recover are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty. Their chances are less than average. There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest. Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it — then you are ready to take certain steps. At some of these we balked. We thought we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely

Shrinks can treat symptoms, but a higher power (I call him the almighty, but in reality it's the entirety of human consciousness and cosmic energy) treats the underlying causes and conditions.

YMMV, and you are to be commended for any effort to treat that desperate condition of mind and body.

[Reagan1k 3024]

Bear is spot on as usual and hits it out of the park with the treatment of symptoms vs. underlying cause.

It took me a while to figure out...... but I just assumed I was an alcoholic simply because I drank so much. 

With a little sobriety and good direction from others I have come to understand that I drank so much because I was an alcoholic and I believe from birth. 

I was always restless, irritable, and discontent for as long as I could remember.  It was a nagging sense that I always wanted to be somewhere else, be someone else, be with someone else - that the brass ring was always jussssttttt out of reach and I couldn't ever get my ducks in a row before someone or something undid my best laid plans.  

No amount of personal or professional success and no amount of love from others quite quenched the feeling that I'd really be fine IF ONLY.

Finding booze treated that nagging feeling until it didn't.  That's why I'm an alcoholic.  The disease of my mind and spirit came first and alcohol found it.

Best wishes to all who post and lurk.

[ztejas 43452]

4 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

I was always restless, irritable, and discontent for as long as I could remember.  It was a nagging sense that I always wanted to be somewhere else, be someone else, be with someone else

Oof. Hits close to home. Thanks. 

[hundredTT 578]

9 hours ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

Also, if you are thinking about going cold turkey, don't just dismiss thestud's story as his friend simply having PTSD from being a soldier. I came off cold turkey and had very bad hallucinations and I've never been in the military or really any situation to cause me to mentally react the way I did to quiting without medical help. Not saying it will happen to you, but that's also what I thought about myself. I had quit maybe 10 times by myself and had never had a reaction like that, so I didn't think about being monitored when I stopped that time. 

I was just taking a break, too. Not even trying to quit for good. I also couldn't figure out what the fuck happened to me. The alcohol withdrawl wasn't even on my radar. It took me a few months after I had quit to piece together a lot of events over that previous year and a lot of reading to make me realize that those hallucinations were 100 percent from that. And it was some scary shit. 

I only remember bits and pieces of it, but I was ordering Uber's to go to parties (I don't go to parties) that didn't exist, with friends of friends who didn't exist. Crawling around the sidewalks of my nieghborhood looking for the Uber driver's keys that he had lost. Yelling at my neighbors who were asking me why I was crawling around the neighborhood yelling at nobody at 3 in the morning. Thinking my Uber driver and his family and their dog were all in my  backyard looking for the keys and yelling at them to leave. Thinking there were raccoons inside my house. Just bizzare shit. I actually had ordered Uber and Lyft because there were charges, but that's all I know. 

I found out later that those sorts of DT's can be brought on by liver disease, which I didn't know I had. But now I do. So it was too late for me in that regard. My liver's cirrhotic. There's no going back from that. My life has been significantly shortened and that's something I have to think about everyday. That's something I had to tell my mother and my father and my sister and my close friends. You, and anyone stuggling with this, think about what that conversation is going to be like with your family if it comes to that. And the conversations you have with yourself everyday when you're wondering how the fuck you could let it go that far. I hope I'm not being preachy, just trying to give you my personal reality that might make you think about it from my perspective, so hopefully it doesn't become yours. 

Very much appreciate this post, def makes me think and know what I’m doing is pure stupidity. 

 

Side note: It got more real today. Had a quarterly performance review, which usually goes by like a breeze with a few criticisms per norm and mostly a good job, keep on doing your thing. Would make me feel like a def functional alcoholic. Today it didn’t go so well and had to face several “we have concerns” type things. Obviously I know drinking has def affected my work, but thought I had it managed. Thing is after hearing all that shit I went and got a huge bottle and am halfway through already.  

 

. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Sounded like a good opportunity to ask your employer for help. Then it becomes a medical issue that they can't fire you for.

[former alkie 72]

45 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

Sounded like a good opportunity to ask your employer for help. Then it becomes a medical issue that they can't fire you for.

Dead-on correct

[Reagan1k 3024]

7 minutes ago, former alkie said:

Dead-on correct

My experience is that I was the only person that thought I was still functional....much less highly functional which is where I hung my hat....that I was managing the drinking.

In reality, the truth was (and was painfully evident to errrrrbody else) that the drink was managing me.

Our perception is deluded by our inability to be honest about the real condition.

The employer opened the door.  One just has to walk on through if you want to stop living in this state of despair.  That particular door doesn't stay open forever.

[Celery Man 20951]

I work/worked for a large corporation.  I took an FMLA leave, insurance paid for the rehab no problem, I've changed bosses and HR reps move around every couple of years.  The only people who remember know or care are people who care about me who I talk to on a personal level.

[TwiceHorn 31478]

1 minute ago, Reagan1k said:

My experience is that I was the only person that thought I was still functional....much less highly functional which is where I hung my hat....that I was managing the drinking.

In reality, the truth was (and was painfully evident to errrrrbody else) that the drink was managing me.

Our perception is deluded by our inability to be honest about the real condition.

The employer opened the door.  One just has to walk on through if you want to stop living in this state of despair.  That particular door doesn't stay open forever.

Absolutely.  I was one of the last people in my orbit to acknowledge that I had a drinking problem.

[former alkie 72]

 

16 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I work/worked for a large corporation.  I took an FMLA leave, insurance paid for the rehab no problem, I've changed bosses and HR reps move around every couple of years.  The only people who remember know or care are people who care about me who I talk to on a personal level.

My hope-to-be last seizure happened at a bank, and I was later told I fell straight back, and slammed my head directly onto the concrete floor.

Ambulance arrived, and once at the hospital, they were considering drilling 2 holes in the back of my skull, to relieve the pressure and blood.

Thank goodness my neurologist got there before they did that, and put that on hold.....he decided to see my progress over the following 2 days.

That "significant" concussion is what caused all the speech / cognitive rehab I had to go thru.

As Celery said, I don't think the majority of my remaining co-workers know or care.....but, the powers-that be do, but they never were, or have been, nothing less than awesome.

5 yrs, 8 months

If I pulled thru, anyone can pull thru \,,/ 

[Parliament 14260]

Asking this question because of a work associate.  He's been put on "administrative leave" for general assholisness caused by what I would call heavy drinking. Work has been rough and he recently went through a rough custody battle with his ex wife.  No excuse there, of course, but it seems to have been the trigger.  Was taking half-day vacations to go to the bar and complain about work. (He's a manager.) Missed a few work meetings.  New general manager had enough and suspended him. Took his phone and laptop.  There's talk he'll get the opportunity for rehab, comped by his employer.

My question is this: Is he an alcoholic?  Definitely has a drinking problem, but is everyone with a "problem" also an alcoholic?  And if there IS a distinction between the two, how will that affect his treatment?  Apologies if these are simplistic questions.  I just have no experience with this at all.  TIA

[JohnnyRage 1617]

IMO, it is a spectrum influenced by time spent, quantity, genetics and environmental factors.

Active addiction is the problem for most chemicals. When we are in active addiction we lose all self-control and choice in the matter which often leads to a tragic downward spiral.

You would be looking more for red flags like powering through and repeating consequences on his way to the far end of the spectrum. And not being able to stay stopped in spite of all the improvements.

(my quick humble opinion)