I'm An Alcoholic

[TwiceHorn 31536]

4 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

IMO, it is a spectrum influenced by time spent, quantity, genetics and environmental factors.

Active addiction is the problem for most chemicals. When we are in active addiction we lose all self-control and choice in the matter which often leads to a tragic downward spiral.

You would be looking more for red flags like powering through and repeating consequences on his way to the far end of the spectrum. And not being able to stay stopped in spite of all the improvements.

(my quick humble opinion)

Solid.  It's hard to impossible to tell whether someone is an alcoholic or just a heavy drinker from the outside.  

One characteristic of the alcoholic is that s/he will drink and continue to drink no matter how inappropriate the situation or how high the stakes.  This reflects the loss of choice.

The real acid test is has trouble stopping drinking and staying stopped.  Or even moderating.  But it's hard to know from the outside whether this is going on.

Everyone that drinks heavily will suffer withdrawal, including the DTs and seizures as described over the last couple of pages.  That is the physical aspect of addiction (also the main reason marijuana is said not to be addictive, no withdrawal syndrome).  Nobody really wants to go through that and that alone will deter some people from stopping.  But the real addict has something more than the physical problem:  psychological, genetic, spiritual, preexists use of alcohol, all apply.  It's a strange deal.

[TexArcher 38066]

Agree that it's impossible to tell if someone is an alcoholic from the outside.

But in my experience, there are at least two types of alcoholics.

The first I call the "born alcoholic."  This is me and most of the alcoholics I've met.  I've never in my life drank "a couple of beers."  Alcohol existed to get hammered on.  I was the same with weed through my 20s and when I tinkered with X, I wanted 4 or 5.  Same thing with coke, and it's a damn good thing I couldn't afford to do that more that once every week or two.  I was born without an off switch.

The second type are those who are capable of drinking moderately, but for some reason or combination of reasons lose that ability.  I suspect that once it's gone, it never comes back.

So, your friend may or may not be a full-blown alcoholic.  But it sounds like he is, at best, in that second group that's in danger of the slippery slope.

Edited August 16, 2019 by TexArcher

[Celery Man 20996]

There are absolutely people with drinking problems who are not alcoholics. If he gets sent to rehab by work and comes back sober, hard to say if he had a rude awakening or if he received life saving treatment. Schrödinger’s drunk. If he comes out still missing daytime meetings to get hammered, dude is probably an alcoholic.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

 

12 hours ago, hundredTT said:

Very much appreciate this post, def makes me think and know what I’m doing is pure stupidity. 

 

Side note: It got more real today. Had a quarterly performance review, which usually goes by like a breeze with a few criticisms per norm and mostly a good job, keep on doing your thing. Would make me feel like a def functional alcoholic. Today it didn’t go so well and had to face several “we have concerns” type things. Obviously I know drinking has def affected my work, but thought I had it managed. Thing is after hearing all that shit I went and got a huge bottle and am halfway through already.  

 

. 

man that sounds familiar...

On 5/1/2019 at 10:32 AM, SwanderedTalent said:

Picking this story up, I had been sober for seven days. I don't remember a ton about this time; my Daily Reflections and 24 Hrs A Day books have passages highlighted but not every day, so I was probably lukewarm internally while outwardly avowing I was going to stay sober this time.

Then, The Call. I scheduled a call with a peer and my boss to review status on a project that was supposed to culminate in a public presentation to our partner community ten days later. My boss was less than thrilled to realize that I had nothing planned, no topic selected, no subject matter experts lined up to develop content or deliver it. To my alcoholic brain, well, sure, that was precisely the challenge! The call went as poorly as you might expect, if you've ever been a boss or a drunk, and he ended by saying "I'll call you in a minute."

That call-- The Call-- basically went like this.

Boss (angry): "So, I don't know what's going on but I feel like you think you have a part-time job. Like you get paid $xxx,xxx to work when you feel like it, and..."

I tuned him out at that point so I could try to pin down an emotion. I wanted to be angry, I wanted to be defensive, but mostly I felt pants-shitting terror. My position isn't one of critical corporate importance but when your boss references your specific salary, it's a sign he's doing some cost-benefit analysis. It dawned on me for perhaps the first time that I wasn't seen as a slightly unpredictable and eccentric genius idea guy but as an unreliable bullshitter. Didn't he know how hard I had worked to keep up my facade as a model employee all the times I was passed out drunk at 11 AM in a puddle of urine in a hotel room? How well I juggled my work/life balance, especially when I didn't even want to be alive anymore?

Well if your boss having such an incorrect and unfair opinion of you wasn't reason to drink, I didn't know what else was. If realizing in cold, stark terms that I was on the verge of irrevocably losing something wasn't an excuse to blot out the pain of existing, what else could or would be?

So out I went. 

 

still one of my worst memories-- I appreciate it for setting the things in motion that it did, but it's hard. 

Piggybacking reagan's point, I think one of the reasons active alcoholics resent their bosses is that the amount of work we have to put into getting things done AND not appearing like a sweaty drunken basket case goes unrecognized. All you get credit for is the work-work part of that equation, and fuck, that's the EASY part! The hard part is keeping up appearances. 

[Reagan1k 3024]

1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Piggybacking reagan's point, I think one of the reasons active alcoholics resent their bosses is that the amount of work we have to put into getting things done AND not appearing like a sweaty drunken basket case goes unrecognized. All you get credit for is the work-work part of that equation, and fuck, that's the EASY part! The hard part is keeping up appearances. 

Bingo - Being a drunk who fancies himself as functional is fucking exhausting......the planning and the hiding and obsessing and sneaking and worrying and paranoia and.......

It is a grind and when we get off that hamster wheel and get some clarity of thought its amazing how much time and energy we wasted getting what he thought was "relief".

[hullabelew 3724]

13 hours ago, hundredTT said:

Side note: It got more real today. Had a quarterly performance review, which usually goes by like a breeze with a few criticisms per norm and mostly a good job, keep on doing your thing. Would make me feel like a def functional alcoholic. Today it didn’t go so well and had to face several “we have concerns” type things. Obviously I know drinking has def affected my work, but thought I had it managed. Thing is after hearing all that shit I went and got a huge bottle and am halfway through already.  

 

. 

When I quit drinking, I found that work went a hell of a lot smoother when I wasn't showing up hungover like a palm tree.  My shitty attitude about my work, my boss, my coworkers, and my life in general was 98% due to the fact that I felt like shit 98% of the time.  I didn't feel like putting up with it and was just waiting to get to the bar to start drinking so I could feel better, and I didn't even realize it at the time.  

Clarity is a motherfucker. 

Edited August 16, 2019 by hullabelew

[Kennythetiger 9460]

Yes.  Absolutely.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

2 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Piggybacking reagan's point, I think one of the reasons active alcoholics resent their bosses is that the amount of work we have to put into getting things done AND not appearing like a sweaty drunken basket case goes unrecognized. All you get credit for is the work-work part of that equation, and fuck, that's the EASY part! The hard part is keeping up appearances. 

This was me, but in my last relationship.

[ztejas 43537]

Question for the thread: 

How much does being around others that are drinking "trigger" you? All/most of us have close family and friends that drink, so sometimes it's almost unavoidable to be around it (as well as it being very ingrained into parts of our culture in general). 

For example, for me, if it's just a close friend or two or family that understand that I'm abstaining, I'm really not bothered if they have a few drinks around me. But if it's a group that's "going out" or boozing heavily then I'd rather not be around it at all. 

Is there anything the book says on this, or specific passages that apply? 

Edited August 16, 2019 by ztejas

[TwiceHorn 31536]

12 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Question for the thread: 

How much does being around others that are drinking "trigger" you? All/most of us have close family and friends that drink, so sometimes it's almost unavoidable to be around it (as well as it being very ingrained into parts of our culture in general). 

For example, for me, if it's just a close friend or two or family that understand that I'm abstaining, I'm really not bothered if they have a few drinks around me. But if it's a group that's "going out" or boozing heavily then I'd rather not be around it at all. 

Is there anything the book says on this, or specific passages that apply? 

The Big Book says an alcoholic can go anywhere if his spiritual condition is right.  That contemplates someone who has worked the steps.

That is tempered by stating that if an alcoholic has a REASON to go to a bar or a party, s/he can and should go.  But shouldn't just for the hell of it.

Most of us with long-term sobriety give zero fucks about what other people are doing/drinking.  Except that people drinking and partying mindlessly are pretty boring.  But in the early going, it's a different story.  Following the book's advice, if you have a reason to be with friends or family or business associates who happen to be imbibing, that's ok.  If you are hanging out with the party crowd just cuz, that's no bueno.

The psychology of quitting drinking works like this for just about everyone.  You quit, you're miserable for a few days, then the fog lifts and you start to feel really good.  Then, after a while, you begin to convince yourself that it really wasn't that bad, and here with a few weeks sober, boy it might just be a grand time to have a drink or two.  If you're like us, that drink or two turns into 12 right quick and you are face down in the gutter again.  This is known as "ego rebuilding" or the "experimental stage," and that basically means you have recanted Step 1 (we came to believe we were powerless over alcohol).

But if you pursue meetings and the steps, the "after a while" part doesn't seem to happen anymore.  There's no little psychological tricks you play with yourself, you just have no reason to want to drink.  You see it for what it is, a personal disaster.

One thing worth mentioning, the BIg Book does not concern itself with little psychological tricks to stop drinking.  There's no "identify your triggers," or "relapse prevention plans,"  or even "play that tape to the end," although the latter is somewhat implicit in it.  It is focused on a wholesale psychological change, a spiritual change, that "right sizes" the alcoholic, eliminates the impulse to control how one feels with chemicals and to control others and situations that are not controllable.

Edited August 16, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[former alkie 72]

 

27 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Question for the thread: 

How much does being around others that are drinking "trigger" you? All/most of us have close family and friends that drink, so sometimes it's almost unavoidable to be around it (as well as it being very ingrained into parts of our culture in general). 

For example, for me, if it's just a close friend or two or family that understand that I'm abstaining, I'm really not bothered if they have a few drinks around me. But if it's a group that's "going out" or boozing heavily then I'd rather not be around it at all. 

My only "trigger" was myself.......... I was primarily an "alone" drinker, at my house.

I always knew the consequences of drinking & driving, I damn sure didn't want to spend a day in jail, and an arrest would have ruined my career.  That's why I never attended happy hours.

When I was home with family, or had company (watch games, family gatherings, etc...), I never hid my beer drinking.....BUT, I damn sure hid the hard stuff.  I'd "sneak" off, and take 3-4 big swigs straight out of my hidden whiskey or vodka bottle, then return.

To answer your original question.........back in my f'd up days, being around others drinking had zero effect on me....I was gonna do what I was gonna do, regardless.  Now, in my 5-6 years of abstinence, I can be around a room full of drunks, and it still has zero effect on me....doesn't bother me in the least - doesn't make me want to "just have one."  I'm focused, trying to stay principle driven.......I'm one of the lucky ones.  I have too much to lose.

Stay strong everybody \,,/

 

[Dewey 3292]

Only time I get triggered, is when I'm around a person who wants to have a cold one after a long day. Around people who are drunk, I always think "I'm glad those days are no more for me" and I'll leave without a goodbye. A casual drink, I'm jealous, a drunk, I am not jealous.

[RomaVicta 30018]

I'm not an alcoholic, and I've avoided this thread. I waded in yesterday and find a lot of interesting, moving conversation. I guess I just want to extend compliments to you all.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

51 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Question for the thread: 

How much does being around others that are drinking "trigger" you?

0.0%. When I was in my mid-20s and trying to quit, without AA and WAY before any significant consequences, that was a much more significant trigger than it is now. That was partly because I was looking to get triggered so I'd have an excuse to drink, and partly because I was heroically not drinking and people's lives went on around me without them stopping to polish my merit badge. If there was one thing I couldn't stand, it was ingratitude for my heroism. 

I'm not the least bit interested in alcohol today, because my Higher Power took away the obsession last year. From experience, drinking it stopped being fun for me and it doesn't produce relaxation or camaraderie or joyful feelings or escape. As long as I stay in good touch with the HP, the obsession won't return, and the thought of alcohol and/or the presence of extremely vivid and painful feelings won't trigger my desire to escape. I won't go looking to "solve" the problems of pain or unhappiness with alcohol myself. I'll turn them over to God and wait as patiently as I can to see if/when things get better.

The strange thing about recovery is, so far, everything I've waited out has gotten better. Usually pretty quickly. I get into 15 minutes of pain, maybe 2 hours, maybe a day or two. I wait. I pray. I meditate. I go to meetings. I talk to my sponsor and other alcoholics. And goddamn, eventually I get some perspective and serenity and the pain passes or gets better or resolves itself. And then I haven't thrown away days and months and year (a year) of sobriety over something trivial. 

That's one of the hardest lessons I've had to learn, via multiple extreme relapses (I've never had a slip, I've only had "let's resume our path to divorce, unemployability, and homeless destitution QUICKLY"). 

If I want to be happy, joyous, and free, I know what to do. I may not want to, but I have seen it work for me and others. 

And if I get tired of being happy, I surely know how to fix that too.

[BearSchlong 8114]

13 hours ago, Parliament said:

Asking this question because of a work associate.  He's been put on "administrative leave" for general assholisness caused by what I would call heavy drinking. Work has been rough and he recently went through a rough custody battle with his ex wife.  No excuse there, of course, but it seems to have been the trigger.  Was taking half-day vacations to go to the bar and complain about work. (He's a manager.) Missed a few work meetings.  New general manager had enough and suspended him. Took his phone and laptop.  There's talk he'll get the opportunity for rehab, comped by his employer.

My question is this: Is he an alcoholic?  Definitely has a drinking problem, but is everyone with a "problem" also an alcoholic?  And if there IS a distinction between the two, how will that affect his treatment?  Apologies if these are simplistic questions.  I just have no experience with this at all.  TIA

He may or may not be.  The beautiful thing is that he's the one who really gets to decide.  Here's what AA uses as a litmus test . .

Quote

 

Now these are commonplace observations on drinkers which we hear all the time. Back of them is a world of ignorance and misunderstanding. We see that these expressions refer to people whose reactions are very different from ours.

Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or leave it alone.

Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason - ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor - becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.

But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.

Here is the fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He is seldom mildly intoxicated. He is always more or less insanely drunk. His disposition while drinking resembles his normal nature but little. He may be one of the finest fellows in the world. Yet let him drink for a day, and he frequently becomes disgustingly, and even dangerously anti-social. He has a positive genius for getting tight at exactly the wrong moment, particularly when some important decision must be made or engagement kept. He is often perfectly sensible and well balanced concerning everything except liquor, but in that respect he is incredibly dishonest and selfish. He often possesses special abilities, skills, and aptitudes, and has a promising career ahead of him. He uses his gifts to build up a bright outlook for his family and himself, and then pulls the structure down on his head by a senseless series of sprees. He is the fellow who goes to bed so intoxicated he ought to sleep the clock around. Yet early next morning he searches madly for the bottle he misplaced the night before. If he can afford it, he may have liquor concealed all over his house to be certain no one gets his entire supply away from him to throw down the wastepipe. As matters grow worse, he begins to use a combination of high-powered sedative and liquor to quiet his nerves so he can go to work. Then comes the day when he simply cannot make it and gets drunk all over again. Perhaps he goes to a doctor who gives him morphine or some sedative with which to taper off. Then he begins to appear at hospitals and sanitariums.

This is by no means a comprehensive picture of the true alcoholic, as our behavior patterns vary. But this description should identify him roughly.

 

He might just be a hard drinker. . .or he may be the "real alcoholic" - but in 12 step recovery we stipulate that it's alcoholism whenever we are willing to admit it, i.e. a self diagnosed illness.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

18 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

IMO, it is a spectrum influenced by time spent, quantity, genetics and environmental factors.

Active addiction is the problem for most chemicals. When we are in active addiction we lose all self-control and choice in the matter which often leads to a tragic downward spiral.

You would be looking more for red flags like powering through and repeating consequences on his way to the far end of the spectrum. And not being able to stay stopped in spite of all the improvements.

(my quick humble opinion)

And I know that I am in active addiction when I am continuing to drink just to avoid the discomfort and pain of not drinking. I am minimally gaining any benefit, just continuing to add to the price I will ultimately have to pay the piper in order to quit.

From a state of not drinking, for this alcoholic, my biggest trigger is shear exhaustion combined with stress and a lack of spirituality.

 

If I am for sure in a state of not drinking and have a resolute goal, others drinking and nearly anything else does not trigger me.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

But I feel that this is my anecdote, does not apply to others, and that I’m about halfway on the spectrum. I can quit on my own, but often too late. And I repeat behaviors that others would consider insane.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

15 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

And I know that I am in active addiction when I am continuing to drink just to avoid the discomfort and pain of not drinking. I am minimally gaining any benefit, just continuing to add to the price I will ultimately have to pay the piper in order to quit.

From a state of not drinking, for this alcoholic, my biggest trigger is shear exhaustion combined with stress and a lack of spirituality.

 

If I am for sure in a state of not drinking and have a resolute goal, others drinking and nearly anything else does not trigger me, yet I always end up drinking again. I refuse to fully surrender to the idea that my higher power has not given me all the tools to figure this thing out. Or I'm just that stubborn, or that's just my alcoholic mind.

 

15 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

But I feel that this is my anecdote, does not apply to others, and that I’m about halfway on the spectrum. I can quit on my own, but often too late, mostly dangerous and painful. And I repeat behaviors that others would consider insane.

Needed to add some late edits.

[pch 1261]

My son got a year yesterday in California.  My sister from Boise extended her visit because she said she loved being with us and didn't want to leave on Thursday.  Had dinner with a couple we have been friends with for 22 years last night but only see once or twice a year. Hit the 7am this morning at Harbor and talked about powerlessness with four newcomers who have less than 30 days.  Breakfast with my wife, sister, and a couple who have 50 years sober between them.  These are all precious gifts that have been given to myself and my wife as a result of staying sober through working the steps and actively participating in our own recovery at our home group.  The rapacious creditor as alcohol is called in the first step in the twelve and twelve has long since been given no consideration as the life that is now worth living one day at a time without it has taken it's place.  My heart is at rest knowing that the spiritual journey that I began with a God I didn't know but now depend upon daily will continue for one more day.  Hope you all have a great Saturday.

[Round Rock Horn 32]

Question for you guys. My brother is currently in his 3rd rehab. He called to tell me that he has finished his step work and ready to go to sober living. When he told me that I was expecting him to apologize to me for getting a DWI and wrecking one of my companies trucks then trying to pass himself off to the other drivers as me. I got nothing. He also told me that he is ready to leave so he can get to AA and work the steps. My brother then told me all he is doing in rehab is mentoring new patients. Maybe my understanding of the 9th and 12th steps are wrong. I thought that before you finish your step work that you have talked with and at least apologized to the people you have wronged while drinking. Also isn’t the mentoring in rehab him working the 12step? Thanks for helping me wade thru his bullshit. The rehabs reports are not as rosy as his self reports and they are recommending another month in treatment before sober living.

[Not a cat 5704]

Not as familiar with the steps as the experts on here, but all I know about the 9th step is don't hold your breath waiting for it.  It's just going to eat you up inside.

I remember when I was still separated from my ex, and she called me with the news that she really needed to talk with me about something urgent.  I instantly agreed and skipped to the planned meeting thinking this was finally going to be vindication for all the hell she put me through.  After all, she was working the steps, right?

Nope, just wanted to bitch about how I was seeing too much of the kids during her week.  I now look back at that day and laugh at my naivete.   

 

[Kennythetiger 9460]

Sorry he’s being a pain in the ass, and not working the steps honestly. Not much you can do about it except talk to him and tell him you think he’s full of shit. Maybe he’ll change, maybe he won’t. 

[TwiceHorn 31536]

While working with others is the 12th step and that tends to mean full blown sponsorship, or shepherding others through the entirety of the steps,. Making oneself of service to newbs is good stuff whether 12th step or not.  Not sure I'd call it mentoring, but helping out.

Also, I don't know what "finished his step work" means.  Some programs like people to get to/through the 3rd or 4th step.  Rarely, a rehab will require working all the steps and it's up to someone other than the patient to make that determination, in any case.

[Reagan1k 3024]

Yep - There is no way to know what he means by describing his progress through the steps.  He may be delusional or trying to manipulate you, or he may be 100% honest and be done with whatever "step work" was laid out for him to complete by his in-patient counselor(s).

A lot of outsiders assume that every treatment center follows an AA model and that's just not the case.  Some are Big Book based, and others disregard it in whole or in part.

The proof is in the shoe leather.  Whenever he gets out, IF you see him attending meetings, engaging an actual sponsor, and then sponsoring others, it would be a positive sign that he is actually working the 12 steps as outlined in the Big Book.

Until then, everything he does and says is filtered through the processes and philosophy of the individual treatment center.

As Twice said, a guy with 1-2 days sober can relate to someone with 30 days sober vs. a counselor who may not even be a drunk, or who may have 30+ years.

Those barely-dry drunks aren't thinking about months and years, they are thinking about minutes and hours so a guy who has managed to stay sober for even a week can seem like superman to someone just sobering up and they hang on his every word looking for direction in how to make that 1st week.

AA based recovery comes from taking actions, regardless of feelings or intellectual understanding, so you'll eventually figure out the truth by watching is actions - not what he tells you.

It may take him weeks or months or years to come around to making amends for a particular incident - even if he is working a diligent and honest program there is only so much he can process at this point and it may not even dawn on him at this moment that an amends is owed.  The fog is real and even obvious things are often overlooked for a period of time; especially if the carnage left in his wake is substantial.

It will come if he's really engaged in the process, but maybe not in a linear progression that makes sense to a family member or friend.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

@hundredTT, What’s the word?

[TwiceHorn 31536]

Also worth noting.  The Twelfth Step is "Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.”

That last clause, as most understand it, means continuously work the other steps in life.

And that means that 9th Step amends are an ongoing (and continuous) process.  Sometimes, the wounds and injuries we inflict are not well recognized at the first pass through the steps, although RRHorn's is fairly obvious.  As we become more insightful, sometimes these things become clearer, as does the need for further or additional amends.

Also, sometimes people feel like they need to make a living amend before their verbal apology can be given or accepted as sincere.

Not saying any of this is applicable here, but it is a benign/positive explanation for why you aren't getting your apology/amends.

[hundredTT 578]

1 hour ago, JohnnyRage said:

@hundredTT, What’s the word?

I think my body knew to post here or something, I’ll explain. I’ve had a lot of vodka everyday since November 2018, literally maybe one or two days where I didn’t drink. Besides bad snoring and sleep apnea, I felt great. The last few days have gone downhill. Driving home from work today in traffic I almost pulled off to the side because I couldn’t catch my breathe and felt like I was going to seize, heart attack, stroke...etc. but likely it was a panic attack peaking its ugly head again. It’s what caused me to stop drinking 3 years ago, I had alcohol induced panic attacks, my brain chemistry was all off kilt. Told myself I’d never do it again, and it is back. Last time I had a full checkup and had no issues, besides somewhat high liver counts, which normalized a few months down the line of sobriety. That was 2016, I started up almost 9 months ago and have probably gained 60 pounds, sleep apnea wakes me up every night gasping and heart racing to where I feel it’s coming out of my chest. I told myself today when driving home and going to my fav liquor store that if I had one more drink, something bad was going to happen. I bought my usual vodka, went to whataburger and ordered a large coke. Emptied half and filled the rest with vodka. Came home and still felt awful. Really thought one sip and I’d be dizzy to the point of need the ER. I debated for 30 mins and went to pour everything out. Went to the sink and my demon convinced to take a sip and if I felt unsteady to throw it out. After a few sips, I started to feel almost crazy because my anxiety was topped out and I felt like this feeling of a few drinks of alcohol was only going to really fuck me up, like it would leave me in limbo. Decided to keep drinking, to make me feel better and this time it took a lot of booze to start to make me feel good. Just about finished the bottle and I’m back to bliss, can’t even deny I feel like a million bucks...music sounds better, shows are funnier, food tastes better. I’m a fucking full on addict, no doubt. Even posting gives me gratification, that I wouldn’t even bother with when sober. The last few days I wake up fine, but around 2-3pm I’m jittery, shaky, feel full on anxiety. I usually drink around 5pm everyday. I hope I'm not dependent on booze, would 9 months of straight drinking hardcore get to withdrawal levels in talks experience? Asking the experts. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by hundredTT

[Reagan1k 3024]

Yes - Everyones' body chemistry is different but I firmly believe you are at serious risk at this point.

You need to get into a medically supervised detox and have a plan for treatment and a program of recovery once that detox is over.

Your body can no longer life with alcohol or without alcohol.  You are treating the symptoms with what's causing the symptoms.

This can and will kill you, and what you describe is a serious issue - you are basically a severe medical emergency waiting to happen.

Please get professional help.  Self detox could be a recipe for disaster at this point.

 

[Dewey 3292]

9 months would do it, you're killing yourself.  Supervised detox, please

Edited August 21, 2019 by Dewey

[Genco 3041]

And if you keep drinking, it will get worse. Right now you say it makes you feel like a million bucks. Pretty soon it won't make you feel better. Then you're in for a real shitshow.

[hundredTT 578]

I do appreciate all the insight. If I go into a program, it will ruin my career, family and relationship. Not trying to sound like the douche who thinks he knows everything, but I’ve done it once before, gonna go solo again. Of course I’m willing to check in  anywhere at a moments glance, but at this time there’s no way I could do a program or something and not lose everything 

[J.R. 150]

“Not lose everything”

In the immortal words of Mr Chow, “but did you die?”  And I’m unfortunately not joking. 

[hundredTT 578]

I hear you brother. I feel like I have to try on my own again first. Obviously there are issues with keeping sober that I need to address still. But I feel I can do that step one on my own, unless medically impossible. But after that, I def need help keeping sober 

Edited August 21, 2019 by hundredTT

[J.R. 150]

1 minute ago, hundredTT said:

I hear you brother. I feel like I have to try on my own again first. Obviously there are issues with keeping sober that I need to address still. But I feel I can do step one on my own, unless medically impossible. But after that, i def need help keeping sober 

Take a few days off, check yourself into a hospital, get dried out, move into sober living if you are living alone (can’t emphasize this enough), get in a program and get on with living. You are doing it the hard way and it just might kill you. 

[hundredTT 578]

Nothing will convince me to go to a hospital or center, or God. I have so much to lose if so. Told y’all I’m not doing it. Will report tomorrow, may god bless y’all dudes. Pretty everything on the line tonight. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by hundredTT

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Have fun storming the castle! 

If you’re drinking a fifth of vodka every night after 5 PM, you’re way more of a hardcore champ then I ever was.

No Thank You.

[J.R. 150]

20 minutes ago, hundredTT said:

Nothing will convince me to go to a hospital or center, or God. I have so much to lose if so. Told y’all I’m not doing it. Will report tomorrow, may god bless y’all dudes. Pretty everything on the line tonight. 

Godspeed bro. Been there. Luckily made it out, but not alone. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

 The best time to quit drinking was 10 years ago. The second best time to quit drinking is right now. This is as good as it gets, and it ain’t even good.

Live. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by JohnnyRage

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Can you change into a regular hospital this Friday night?

[TwiceHorn 31536]

1 hour ago, hundredTT said:

I do appreciate all the insight. If I go into a program, it will ruin my career, family and relationship. Not trying to sound like the douche who thinks he knows everything, but I’ve done it once before, gonna go solo again. Of course I’m willing to check in  anywhere at a moments glance, but at this time there’s no way I could do a program or something and not lose everything 

Dude, your career family and relationship are going nowhere fucking fast with what you described.  You are fixing to lose everything right, fucking, now, or damned soon, and that might include your life, or a good chunk of your health.

Everyone you work with, your family, your relationship can see you falling apart and is probably wondering what to do with you.  Entering a program of recovery is probably the biggest relief you could serve up to them.

For those watching from the peanut gallery, this is how it goes.  This is the paradigm, with maybe an extra dash of bravado.

Edited August 21, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[TexArcher 38066]

2 hours ago, hundredTT said:

there’s no way I could do a program or something and not lose everything 

If you keep drinking like that, you're going to lose everything then you're going to die.

Alcoholism is a progressive disease.  As it gets worse, you will think that you're hiding it, that no one else knows, and you'll be wrong.  They will all know.  Your family, your boss, your colleagues, and your friends will know.  They will probably give you too many chances because they care about you.  Then, in exasperation, and because it's the only thing they can think of left to do that might actually help you, they will let you go.

It doesn't have to come to that.  There's plenty of help available for this.  But it can't come to you.

I don't believe in luck, so I'll wish you a clear head tomorrow so that you can make a good decision.

[Reagan1k 3024]

9 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Everyone you work with, your family, your relationship can see you falling apart and is probably wondering what to do with you.  Entering a program of recovery is probably the biggest relief you could serve up to them

Twice speaks the truth. 

We cant distinguish the true from the false in that state of active alcoholism.

if you are like I was, the perception I had was so delusional when compared to the reality of what others saw and wanted for me. 

 

 

[Dewey 3292]

10 hours ago, hundredTT said:

I hear you brother. I feel like I have to try on my own again first. Obviously there are issues with keeping sober that I need to address still. But I feel I can do that step one on my own, unless medically impossible. But after that, I def need help keeping sober 

I hope your story becomes a success story

[Celery Man 20996]

That whole thing of the crescendo of anxiety that is pretty dependable and dissipates when you drink, which you do after staring at your drink and agonizing over kicking off the cycle again.  I have lived that, it fucking sucks, the cycle gets shorter and the lows get lower and the highs get lower.  Hate to type that out because I bet you read this when you're feeling like you're about to stroke out rather than when you're feeling like a well oiled machine.  I bet reading it makes your heart pound, which I hate to do to you.  But this is exactly the life I was living just a few short years ago, and that's how it works.

I'd be totally happy to talk more about how, even though I never wanted to get help and was sure I'd lose everything and my family would turn their back on me, on and and on and on, it was getting help that prevented all of those things from happening.  Especially the part about how work made way less of a big deal out of it then I even imagined might have been possible. If you're going to slay the monster yourself, you should do it quick because the anxiety thing will get worse.  Or you can do things the easy way.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

11 hours ago, hundredTT said:

unless medically impossible

the problem with this is that if it's not medically possible, there's a good chance that determination will be made post-mortem and you won't get a do-over (no offense to the Hindus among us)

[TwiceHorn 31536]

Apologies if I went a little over the top last night.  I get wound up about this stuff sometimes.  Too much for anyone's good.

It pains me to see people making the same mistakes I made.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

12 hours ago, hundredTT said:

If I go into a program, it will ruin my career, family and relationship.

I thought the same thing, and had to make a calculation kind of like this: if I keep doing what I'm doing, I can hold on to those things for a few more months, maybe a few more years, and then not only will I probably lose them, I'll be that much further down the road of alcoholism and will probably just decide I have nothing left to live for.

Or, I can give myself a six-week break from life and see if my perspective and desire on anything changes, if maybe this stupid program will work for me. I would not be alive today, or at the very least I would not be 15 months sober, if I hadn't gotten that break. I would probably still have the job and I would be separated and living alone and drinking myself to death in a really nice, unfurnished apartment.

so you're not necessarily keeping any of those things by avoiding a program

[Dertyberd 394]

12 hours ago, hundredTT said:

I hear you brother. I feel like I have to try on my own again first. Obviously there are issues with keeping sober that I need to address still. But I feel I can do that step one on my own, unless medically impossible. But after that, I def need help keeping sober 

NOT MEDICAL ADVICE, but I was back on a liter of vodka a day during my short 6 months out with the same anxiety/alcohol induced panic attacks and I was able to get sober safely.  It's risky, but I too was determined not to go to treatment a second time.  You can't go cold turkey or you very well might die, but it can be done.  I grabbed a case of beer, some weed, a lot of water/gatorade, some Benadryl, and locked myself in the house for three days and slowly tapered off.  Granted, I had been to treatment before, knew what to expect, had a friend check on me every 6 or so hours, was ready to get sober and surrender to the process, but it worked.  It was a nasty, smelly 72 hours that I will never forget.  I don't recommend it, you might hallucinate a little, but if you are truly ready to be done with this, you can.  I walked into the first meeting I could physically make sober, shaky, and beat to hell, but everyone was happy to see me. I cried, thanked God and the group, and got on with it.   

The trick is truly being willing to stop, and surrender to the process.  If I wasn't at that point, it wouldn't have stuck.  I hope you are there, sincerely.  I will say that if you're to the point where vodka is your go to buddy everyday, that shit will kill you quickly.  It took me to a bad place in a hurry and I'm grateful I made it out alive.  If you're like I was and can make it a weekend without vodka or hard liquor that is a great short term win, but the only victory is not walking back into the liquor store and starting the cycle again.  Godspeed.  Thanks for sharing, I need to be reminded of where I come from.  Much love.  

[hundredTT 578]

Day 1 has been great so far. I took the day off and have been in bed all day watching Netflix, sports talk...etc. I haven’t had an appetite, so gonna eat a little something. 

[BearSchlong 8114]

@hundredTT oops didn't see your last post.

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by BearSchlong