I'm An Alcoholic

[Celery Man 20933]

1 hour ago, hundredTT said:

I know too. I didn’t know how else to say thanks but no thanks for the generosity that truly is beyond amazing. People on here are no doubt just great humans beings. I feel like this is my only outlet, so kind of makes me feel good about coming clean. I’ve experimented with a dangerous drug the last 2 days, my new living situation isn’t ideal for sure. I’m textbook fucked up alcoholic who is circling the drain. First time ever using drugs in my entire life, but I really have come to the point where I don’t give much shits anymore. Not trying to come off as “look at me” just thought I’d continue to share my journey. I’ve been sharing on here since 2015 on shaggy, this is basically my diary. I just don’t know what getting sober would accomplish at this point, except living longer. But what is living when there’s nothing to live for anymore...

Mind if I ask how old you are, just to maybe better "place" you as it were?

I touched on this a bit in my previous response to you - that your brain is fucked up and you're incapable of feeling the good things that make life worth living.  Don't get me wrong - you're also going through a hell of a rough patch, are in some dire straits, and are frankly in danger.  So, you may be situationally depressed right now,  but you're also chemically depressed.  You may have plenty to be depressed about, but even if something was around to bring you joy, you wouldn't be capable of feeling it.  GOT SOME GOOD NEWS BRO.  Same solution for both problems.  I'm not going to hammer you too much on it because you hear the same shit each time, but you're going to need someone to help you out and there are people here and there are people in whatever room you find (shit, now you can go to NA if you feel like), and it's not easy compared to anything but what you're doing currently.

Something that I learned from fucking up a relationship that could've been something, fucking up my relationship with the guys I played music with for 15 years, driving away everyone in my life over a couple of years of literally constant drinking, almost dying in the hospital, being in a coma for a week, and having everyone I care about know about my shit and my dad driving me to get checked into a rehab - I'm not special, my life could snuff out in an instant, it is too late to make all the right decisions, that's not special either, and accepting that makes me free in a way i've never been.  Life's not a bowl of gummy worms, and if it was, it would ultimately be dissatisfying.  Sometimes I think about things that I fucked up, and it is sad that things that could have been nice turned out not.  But it's not depressing because I was helped out of the darkness, my feelings and my sanity returned to me, I built from there, and I have a great life that I wouldn't have if I was a different person than the person that I am.  I'm not pumping sunshine, I'm not even calling bullshit on what you're feeling right now, I'm just telling you that you are wrong.  "But I really fucked up" - shut the fuck up, we all did (you're not special).  Here's another lesson - when you're ready to come back to the land of the living, just do what the smart sober people tell you to do and don't think about it too much.  You can think about it later.  You've been spending a lot of time thinking, you can let that rest for a bit and just follow instructions for a while.

Keep coming back buddy.  Try not to do anything too stupid.

[Kennythetiger 9376]

Don’t forget that somehow you managed to get an electric device into your detox with you, from which you were posting wildly-insane things, and had, quite literally, all of Shaggy saying, “Wtf??”

🙂

[Celery Man 20933]

 

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

On rehab, it depends.  Most 20-somethings haven't been around enough to be sick and tired of being sick and tired.  They are still bulletproof in their own minds and only doing it because courts or parents or some combination is forcing them to.  It's often not even clear that they suffer from the disease; they may just be idiots.

Of course, that isn't the exclusive province of 20-somethings, or 30-somethings or anyone else. That said, I know some teens, now 20s and even 30s, that have amazing recovery, and hair-raising stories.

It's important to distinguish those who don't want what rehab offers--they're there--and those who want what it offers but aren't ready to accept it; they aren't "willing," as it were.  Many of us have been there.

If you want what it has and are willing, rehab can be a big help.  If you just want it, it can help.  All of us have struggled with willingness at one time or another.  Often it takes some age, experience, and family to get to the want and willing stages.

 

One of the hardest times I ever laughed in my life - sitting in the butt hut at La Hacienda with the "adults", and from the big common room nearby we hear a rapid crescendo of shouting and laughter from the idiots (some of whom were very fine people).  Mark, the tweedy bearded lawyer (still sober), with perfect dryness and comedic timing, says "Somebody dropped a cheeto."

Edited September 28, 2019 by Celery Man

[Celery Man 20933]

4 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

Don’t forget that somehow you managed to get an electric device into your detox with you, from which you were posting wildly-insane things, and had, quite literally, all of Shaggy saying, “Wtf??”

🙂

can't forget what you never remembered

and to be fair, at that point I was fucked up on a combination of both not alcohol and drugs the hospital gave me.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

4 hours ago, Dewey said:

His son, Noah is a recovered junkie who has a pretty big following.

 

You haven't heard?

Edited September 28, 2019 by JohnnyRage

[SoCalHorn 40]

https://www.calm.com/

[Dewey 3286]

17 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

You haven't heard?

You just told me, geez. Dont want to be an asshole, but I'm not really surprised. 

[hundredTT 577]

I'm 31. I Was previously hundredwaters on shaggy, posted about my alcohol addiction in 2016, was sober from April 2016 to October 2018, got sober on my own. I've been drinking everyday since my relapse in 10/2018.  My biggest fear is I've never been someone who gets much out of life. When i'm high/drunk...I've won awards for photography, had amazing sex with beautiful women from confidence, just a very outgoing person who people warmed up to. When I'm sober I am safe, but just so fucking boring. I hate the thought of a normal life...working at the comptroller downtown 9-5 with 2 extra hours in traffic. Sometimes I think I'd rather blow my brains out than that. Drinking and drugs at least get me into interesting shit. And fuck a religious awakening where I admit  powerless to a false God, I've never been religious and that shit pushed me away more than anything. I'm open to other options for sobriety, but do not want to be apart of 12 steps or anything like that. Again, not hating on anyone here who has found success through that, and there are amazing people here. It's not ever going to be me. 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

Assuming that it's "religious" is your first mistake.

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.” 

 

[Celery Man 20933]

Ah cool, I'm 33... shit, about to turn 34, and hit bottom 18 days after my 30th birthday.  Hey cool, I'm going to turn 4.

Don't worry about the religious thing.  It's not about "god".  The important thing is that you are not the higher power.  You are not in control, and not only that, but it is ok and good that you are not in control.  You can control the things you can control, you cannot control the things that you cannot control, and that is fine.  There's no use in worrying about the things you can't control, and the nice thing is that if you just focus on those things that you can control and you try and do the best and right thing with all of those things, it's going to be OK.  That's my higher power - I don't want to invoke "karma" but there is a wind that we're all floating on and generally, broadly, on average, etc, things work out OK to even great (and at least far better than otherwise) if you cede control of the things that you don't control in the first place and and try to do the right things.

One thing that scared the shit out of me when I was getting sober - the idea that the rest of my life would just be a big slog of "staying sober" and then I'd die.  I would be forever occupied with talking about not drinking and doing things that are centered around not drinking and having not drinking friends and my hobby would be not drinking and staying in my house if I wasn't going somewhere for the express purpose of not having a drink.  That has not been the case for me.  There was a lot of it up front, and I needed a lot of support early on and I'm glad that I wasn't out there on my own.  But my life isn't consumed by not drinking - catching up here and writing this is the first "I'm an alcoholic" thinking I've done today.  I go to meetings when I get the urge.  I should go more often because I enjoy it.  But it's not Jonestown.

You mentioned booze opening you up and being the catalyst that gets you into more interesting shit.  I resemble that remark.  First time I actually got drunk it was like an epiphany - all the shit that kept me wound up so tight went away, I was funny and interesting, I was in the middle of the party and having a good time.  You'll hear people (in here, but anywhere where alcoholics talk) talking about being comfortable in their own skin.  It is extraordinarily common for alcoholics to never have felt comfortable in their own skin until they drank.  Which is one more thing that makes it difficult to stop.  The alcoholic is fucked up, they find the thing that stops them from being fucked up, and then that thing eventually destroys their life.  And even if they can get past all of the problems with the physical addiction and get into a rhythm that interrupts longstanding habits, they're still fucked up and aren't the super cool non fucked up guy that they became when they started drinking.  Which is why there is this whole program thing where in addition to resources and support and regular activities, they try and teach you how to rewire your thinking (which can seem scary and cultish and blah blah blah).  All that stuff I talked about when I was addressing the higher power thing.  It's to help unfuck the thing that was causing you to be fucked up in the first place.

My life is probably fairly mundane on paper at this point, but that's somewhat by design.  When I really crawled into the bottle to die (after being an alcoholic for a decade) I had just done the warped tour for a summer and a couple of smaller tours and a pretty big tour.  When I was coming out, I wanted to build a normal but successful life.  I wanted to own a home, be in a relationship, and get promotions/do interesting work shit (all the stuff that i always wanted but were at odds with the other stuff that I wanted).  I have done all of those things.  I'm married, have a nice home, am about to be on my 5th job title since the bottom (doing shit that's interesting, being challenged, carrying some degree of importance in the organization, etc).  If I had wanted to go pursue creative stuff, learning how to get to that place of confidence and serenity without leaning on alcohol would have helped me there as well.  I fully and entirely understand the idea that without booze, you're not going to be the great awesome person that booze allowed you to be in the window of time when it was working for you.  The fact of the matter is that the whole deal with recovery is that it allows you to become that person minus the booze.  That might sound corny, but it's not hyperbole - the shit that alcohol used to do for you, dropping away the feelings and insecurities that held you back, you don't need alcohol to accomplish that. But you do need to accomplish that, and that's the whole thing.

Stay safe buddy.

Edited September 29, 2019 by Celery Man

[TwiceHorn 31440]

Yep, I left it out of my post, but the only concept of a higher power you need is "I don't run this shit."

Because at some level you have decided that you do in fact run shit, or a whole lot of shit that you do not, in fact, run.  As a result. you have been effectively at war with the world for most of your life.

And that's why life sucks, because you are constantly fighting battles you cannot win and ignoring or mishandling the few that you can.  Your drinking is but a symptom of that more fundamental problem.  You battle your feelings with booze, and for a while it gave you the illusion that you were winning.  Until it didn't.

[TexArcher 37771]

5 hours ago, hundredTT said:

And fuck a religious awakening where I admit  powerless to a false God, I've never been religious and that shit pushed me away more than anything. I'm open to other options for sobriety, but do not want to be apart of 12 steps or anything like that. Again, not hating on anyone here who has found success through that, and there are amazing people here. It's not ever going to be me. 

I'm agnostic.  I've been sober for over 6 years and I haven't prayed once.  And I went to AA daily or twice daily during that first year.  I still go to meetings from time to time, not because I'm afraid I'll drink if I don't.  I go because they're fun.  I wouldn't have believed it, either, but it's true.  And I go because I can be useful to others.

And the "higher power" doesn't have to be "God."  Let the group itself be your higher power.  There doesn't have to be anything supernatural about it.  Just admit that you need help, ask for it, and accept it.  Who cares if they pray and you don't?  Most of them will readily admit that prayer is only one tool in their toolbox.  So substitute meditation for prayer in your own toolbox and get on with the rest of it.    

It only takes a couple of tweaks to change the standard 12 steps into the agnostic 12 steps below.  That's important.  

http://www.aaagnostics.org/agnostic12steps.html

If "the God stuff" is what's keeping you from going to AA, then, frankly, that's not a very good reason when your life is on the line.  Don't assume too much.  Just go and listen.  If you find that group to be too preachy for your liking, then go to a different group.  There are agnostic meetings in Austin and probably everywhere else.  I promise you that if you make an honest effort, you will find a group that can help you get out of this mess. 

[J.R. 150]

The whole “force of the universe” karma, something beyond my awareness, group is the higher power is what worked for me. I started in a shit rehab with a bunch of literal crack addicts whose lives were fucked beyond description. But when we all got in that room together the sum total of the power in that room to help one single individual in there was so much greater than the minuscule power of each individual added together I snapped to and finally got it that there was something special going on. Fuck it your higher power can be a GD grapefruit. It. Does. Not. Matter.  You will not win this battle alone. You just won’t. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by J.R.

[Reagan1k 3024]

@hundredTT  You may be right about the whole false god thing.  

When I first came in looking for answers I was in your shoes.

A guy asked asked me if I was powerless against whiskey and I agreed that I was.  He said......OK then there is A power out there greater than you....whiskey. Now, do you think whiskey is the most powerful thing in the universe.  We talked about the tides, sunrises, salmon returning to their birthplace, ducks migrating, swallows at Capistrano..... and I agreed that there was something else out there bigger than me AND whiskey that was making order in randomness. 

He then said fine.... give the tide maker and the salmon/swallow GPS guide some credit and that can be something more powerful than you and whiskey.  

Finally he asked if I thought he was sober on his own power and I said no.... I knew his story.... so he said I could borrow his higher power or use him as my higher power so we could get started.  

Nothing more/ nothing less.... No God, no religion, no dogma or ceremony.  There are simply powers at work more powerful than me and they keep others sober and can do the same for me. 

He pointed out later that no where in the steps does it say we come to understand or be able to explain a power greater than ourselves.... we simply accept and believe there is something.... vague as that may be. 

I hope you find the peace and comfort you want for yourself. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Love & Balance is my higher power and what I pray for to come into my life so that I may put more Love & Balance out into the world.

But get your own damn higher power.

The more I drink the further away I get from my higher power. But also the more stressed I get trying to control the world and others the farther I wander down a worthless path.

I consider it a spiritual journey and there seems to be a biological short circuit that exists that I may tap into if I so choose. Or I can just be the smartest most miserable guy in the room. 

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

12 hours ago, hundredTT said:

I'm 31. I Was previously hundredwaters on shaggy, posted about my alcohol addiction in 2016, was sober from April 2016 to October 2018, got sober on my own. I've been drinking everyday since my relapse in 10/2018.  My biggest fear is I've never been someone who gets much out of life. When i'm high/drunk...I've won awards for photography, had amazing sex with beautiful women from confidence, just a very outgoing person who people warmed up to. When I'm sober I am safe, but just so fucking boring. I hate the thought of a normal life...working at the comptroller downtown 9-5 with 2 extra hours in traffic. Sometimes I think I'd rather blow my brains out than that. Drinking and drugs at least get me into interesting shit. And fuck a religious awakening where I admit  powerless to a false God, I've never been religious and that shit pushed me away more than anything. I'm open to other options for sobriety, but do not want to be apart of 12 steps or anything like that. Again, not hating on anyone here who has found success through that, and there are amazing people here. It's not ever going to be me. 

How did you feel for the 2.5 years you were sober? I don't mean why did you relapse. That's easy. You're an alcoholic. All the stories from people, it's kind of rare to hear one that just kicked it the first time. But how did you feel sober? Did you feel boring and safe, or did you just think everyone around you thought you were boring and safe? Because I'm guessing that people who know/knew you, didn't think you were boring when you were sober and the life of the party when you were drunk. They probably thought when you were sober, they really liked being around you, and when you were drunk/high, they thought you were a dipshit. I'm talking about normal people. Not us.

Did you want to put a bullet in your head all of those sober 2.5 years, or did that start in the last year? Or did that start before you even knew that booze could put a temporary band-aid on those thoughts? That's kind of an important thing to think about. You're depressed and miserable. There is no way to get rid of that feeling without giving yourself a chance to think about it. You are not capable of thinking about that clearly right now and you won't be if you keep going. And you probably won't be without somebody walking you through it. A sponsor, a therapist,  a friend, something. Anything. You are too far gone right now. We have all been too far gone at some point that the outlook is so fucking bleak, there doesn't seem to be any other way things could be. 

It's a dangerous and dark place and you're smack it the middle of it. But you know what? You're here and you're talking about it. You know you're fucked right now and don't want to be there. It's just a deep hole you're looking up from and the top seems so far up there that what's the point? It's too much to climb up there.

What's up there is what you're looking for. Part of your brain is telling you that, but it doesn't seem in any way attainable. Whether you believe it or not, there are people that want to throw a rope down to you. Just grab on and let them help.

 

 

[Celery Man 20933]

This talk of meditation, and then what I was talking about regarding things you can control versus things you can't control - brings to mind something that I think (but am not positive) I heard in Andy Puddicumbe's SXSW keynote a few years back (when I was 5 months sober... good fucking time to be catching that).  He was talking about meditating, and actually walked the entire auditorium through a meditation, and had you imagine you were sitting on a hill in front of a road.  And the thoughts that enter your head are like cars driving by, and you can just passively watch them go by and allow them to leave.  And then the metaphor breaks down so I may be misremembering but there was an idea of a troublesome thought or a problem, and you can metaphorically pick it up and examine it, and then set it down and let it go.  The act of visualizing that interaction with a problem you can't control or you're not in charge of I think is useful.  Seeing it, recognizing it exists, looking at it, and then ultimately setting it down and allowing it to exist, but not be a focus of your thoughts.

 

[BearSchlong 8083]

@JohnnyRage you remember that rangers game you went to years back? I was with those guys this weekend, just like I am every last weekend in September. Made me think of you.
@Augustus I had breakfast with Sam W. this morning. Played golf with a guy named Chase from your old home group as well. And of course my man crush on David B. continues to grow.

Just attended the 59th annual Lakeside conference. My 9th. As usual it was an out of body spiritual renewal.

My great grand sponsor who died with 51 years sober attended his 51st consecutive. In an urn. . .a little weird but if you think about it that's a totally normal thing for an Al Anon to do with her alcoholic, right?

As always you are all cordially invited to 2020 edition. . .the 60th is gonna be awesome. Midland, Odessa, Brady, Dallas, Austin, Houston, Conroe, OK City, Beaumont, Rockport, Corpus, and we even have some Pacific Group AAs who have made it their home conference.

Don L. from Bellingham WA, give him a google. One of the best talks I've ever heard. I'm talking to you,@hundredTT

[hullabelew 3723]

On 9/27/2019 at 9:03 PM, hundredTT said:

I know too. I didn’t know how else to say thanks but no thanks for the generosity that truly is beyond amazing. People on here are no doubt just great humans beings. I feel like this is my only outlet, so kind of makes me feel good about coming clean. I’ve experimented with a dangerous drug the last 2 days, my new living situation isn’t ideal for sure. I’m textbook fucked up alcoholic who is circling the drain. First time ever using drugs in my entire life, but I really have come to the point where I don’t give much shits anymore. Not trying to come off as “look at me” just thought I’d continue to share my journey. I’ve been sharing on here since 2015 on shaggy, this is basically my diary. I just don’t know what getting sober would accomplish at this point, except living longer. But what is living when there’s nothing to live for anymore...

I felt EXACTLY the same way you do.  EXACTLY, to a T.  I was spending nights in my pickup rather than going home.  I thought, "I can't live like this being drunk and stoned, how can I handle it being sober."   Well, I finally completely gave up, thinking 'What do I have to lose.  I don't mind dying anyway."  It is just amazing what a clear, undrugged head will do to improve your outlook.  And I was like you...I really thought it would make it worse, but I just KNEW being sober wouldn't help.  

Drinking and drugs 'worked' for me from 16 to about 48.  Then it started going to shit...I mean real shit.  A short try at AA at age 50 that didn't take because I didn't really try.  Then I just threw my hands up at 56 and signed up for rehab.  28 days inpatient then a 7 week (30 total days IOP) where I worked my regular job most of that time.  Now, my outlook is 1,000% improved.  I still have the same problems as when I went in...it is just that with a truly clear mind, and learning a lot about why I am the way I am, I can handle my life a lot better.  

Edited September 30, 2019 by hullabelew

[hullabelew 3723]

The best way I heard higher power explained was "There is me, and there is Not Me."  My higher power is Not Me.   

[BearSchlong 8083]

Here's a link to a good talk by Don L. - https://www.xa-speakers.org/pafiledb.php/

 

 

[Dertyberd 394]

On 9/28/2019 at 10:37 PM, Celery Man said:

You mentioned booze opening you up and being the catalyst that gets you into more interesting shit.  I resemble that remark.  First time I actually got drunk it was like an epiphany - all the shit that kept me wound up so tight went away, I was funny and interesting, I was in the middle of the party and having a good time.  You'll hear people (in here, but anywhere where alcoholics talk) talking about being comfortable in their own skin.  It is extraordinarily common for alcoholics to never have felt comfortable in their own skin until they drank.  Which is one more thing that makes it difficult to stop.  The alcoholic is fucked up, they find the thing that stops them from being fucked up, and then that thing eventually destroys their life.  And even if they can get past all of the problems with the physical addiction and get into a rhythm that interrupts longstanding habits, they're still fucked up and aren't the super cool non fucked up guy that they became when they started drinking.  Which is why there is this whole program thing where in addition to resources and support and regular activities, they try and teach you how to rewire your thinking (which can seem scary and cultish and blah blah blah).  All that stuff I talked about when I was addressing the higher power thing.  It's to help unfuck the thing that was causing you to be fucked up in the first place.

If I had wanted to go pursue creative stuff, learning how to get to that place of confidence and serenity without leaning on alcohol would have helped me there as well.  I fully and entirely understand the idea that without booze, you're not going to be the great awesome person that booze allowed you to be in the window of time when it was working for you.  The fact of the matter is that the whole deal with recovery is that it allows you to become that person minus the booze.  That might sound corny, but it's not hyperbole - the shit that alcohol used to do for you, dropping away the feelings and insecurities that held you back, you don't need alcohol to accomplish that. But you do need to accomplish that, and that's the whole thing.

This is some good shit right here and I appreciate you sharing.  It was certainly one of my main hang ups in not wanting to seek help and change my way of life.  I was always insecure and constantly worrying about what others were saying about me. I loved that feeling of sitting back and saying, "ahhhh, it's all good" when I had a drink.  I was legitimately a very fun guy to be around drunk, until it the day it turned and I wasn't.  

The most succinct way I've heard the change that takes place in recovery described is, "AA does for me gradually what alcohol did for me instantaneously".  It doesn't happen overnight and for some it takes longer than others, but there is a new level of freedom and ease when I let go and do the work.  My give a fuck meter is now calibrated at an entirely different level.  As long as I'm taking care of my stuff and trying to do the next right thing, everything else falls into place and the voices of others that used to haunt my thoughts fall silent.  The only time I hear them is when I'm not in tune with myself, and that is something within my control. 

Comfortable in my own skin for the first time.  I never dreamed that could happen without booze.  It's truly a mindfuck sometimes that I am living this life that I pinch myself and just laugh. Grateful.  Happy days.  Much love.  

[hullabelew 3723]

I'm in the middle of my first business trip, post sober.  First time in an airport since I was 18 years old that I didn't get there really early so I could sit in the bar and get hammered.  Last night, I went to my normal spot in Arlington, VA after work.  Raw bar night.  3 dozen oysters, 2 lbs crab legs, 1 lb of shrimp......$44 pre-tip. Last time, that same night cost me about $150.   Amazing what club soda costs when you don't add a bottle of vodka to the tab.  Plus, amazingly I felt great this morning.  

[Reagan1k 3024]

4 hours ago, hullabelew said:

I'm in the middle of my first business trip, post sober.  First time in an airport since I was 18 years old that I didn't get there really early so I could sit in the bar and get hammered.  Last night, I went to my normal spot in Arlington, VA after work.  Raw bar night.  3 dozen oysters, 2 lbs crab legs, 1 lb of shrimp......$44 pre-tip. Last time, that same night cost me about $150.   Amazing what club soda costs when you don't add a bottle of vodka to the tab.  Plus, amazingly I felt great this morning.  

Good for you...it does feel great.  I'm walking with a new guy going through a lot of those same firsts and it is exciting to see his eyes light up telling me he did this or that and didn't think about drinking.  He's got a corporate event coming up with a lot of golf and booze normally involved.  We're making sure he's all prayed up and fit spiritually, but I think he's looking forward to it....possibly because he knows he can win some side bets off drunk co-workers.  Sobriety has its perks I guess.

PS - those expense accounts go a lot farther on MUCH better food and dining experiences when there is no bar tab as well.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Reagan1k

[TwiceHorn 31440]

I'm very grateful for the fact that I haven't had to do a lot of business travel over my career, and especially for the fact that I didn't have to do any for about a year after getting sober for the last time.

I have always pitied those that have to go back on the road weeks or short months after embarking on sobriety.  It's a very challenging environment.

[BearSchlong 8083]

8 hours ago, Dertyberd said:

The most succinct way I've heard the change that takes place in recovery described is, "AA does for me gradually what alcohol did for me instantaneously".

I've never heard this, oh, hell, maybe I have, but I never REALLY heard it until you wrote it.  Good shit.

[immortal13 4059]

5 hours ago, hullabelew said:

I'm in the middle of my first business trip, post sober.  First time in an airport since I was 18 years old that I didn't get there really early so I could sit in the bar and get hammered.  Last night, I went to my normal spot in Arlington, VA after work.  Raw bar night.  3 dozen oysters, 2 lbs crab legs, 1 lb of shrimp......$44 pre-tip. Last time, that same night cost me about $150.   Amazing what club soda costs when you don't add a bottle of vodka to the tab.  Plus, amazingly I felt great this morning.  

$44? What restaurant was this, Long John Silvers?

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Captain D's

[Celery Man 20933]

D's nuts

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

12 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm very grateful for the fact that I haven't had to do a lot of business travel over my career, and especially for the fact that I didn't have to do any for about a year after getting sober for the last time.

I have always pitied those that have to go back on the road weeks or short months after embarking on sobriety.  It's a very challenging environment.

At the start of one of my prior longest periods of sobriety-- I think it lasted about nine months-- I had to fly to Denver on a trip in like the first week, maybe the first three days. I can still remember sitting there at dinner after the day's meetings, feeling like the only monkey in the cowpen, looking around at these execs drinking convivially and having a great time and talking about all the fun stuff they liked to do and throw money at and thinking, "It really would be easier to just order a drink or two, and then I could cut out of here a little early and <looking at phone> there's a liquor store within walking distance and <looking at phone> liquor stores stay open in Colorado late enough, I could get a bottle and it would just be easier". 

Ultimately enough sanity prevailed that I could be honest with myself and admit that no, it would not be easier, I would just temporarily lose the ability to discern easy from difficult. I ended up forlornly drinking a Diet Coke and did not go to the liquor store. White-knuckled the fuck out of that dinner and the rest of the trip. Nothing about that dialogue struck me as unusual or indicative of really problematic thinking. I didn't realize how fucking crazy I was. 

I am very grateful I don't have to accept thinking like that or do those things today. 

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

What is it about travel for work that is hard for some of you? Being stuck in a hotel at night? Being away from people you don't have to hide it from temporarily? Is it different than the social situations where you used to drink just because those are optional and work trips aren't? 

I haven't found that to be all that difficult, but I have lived alone for most of my adult life, so maybe that's a difference. I can see the temporary freedom to be a big trigger if you don't have it very often. 

I also still prefer to be around people that are drinking, so I might be unusual like that. Sober people bore me. Not the falling down drunk, hanging all over you people. I can do without that shit for sure. Just mean the normal drinkers that are having a good time and like to over-imbibe on occasion.  If I had any friends in Austin, I imagine I would go out more now than when I was drinking. Whether it was mainly a drinking environment or not. 

[hullabelew 3723]

14 hours ago, immortal13 said:

$44? What restaurant was this, Long John Silvers?

Raw Bar specials on Tues nights.  About 1/3 of regular prices.  I always make a dent.  Used to include the Titos and Jameson  inventory as well.  

[hullabelew 3723]

44 minutes ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

What is it about travel for work that is hard for some of you? Being stuck in a hotel at night? Being away from people you don't have to hide it from temporarily? Is it different than the social situations where you used to drink just because those are optional and work trips aren't? 

I haven't found that to be all that difficult, but I have lived alone for most of my adult life, so maybe that's a difference. I can see the temporary freedom to be a big trigger if you don't have it very often. 

I also still prefer to be around people that are drinking, so I might be unusual like that. Sober people bore me. Not the falling down drunk, hanging all over you people. I can do without that shit for sure. Just mean the normal drinkers that are having a good time and like to over-imbibe on occasion.  If I had any friends in Austin, I imagine I would go out more now than when I was drinking. Whether it was mainly a drinking environment or not. 

I LOVE exploring new bars.  Finding cool neighborhood bars with a bunch of new drunks to hang out with, meet new bartenders, hear new jokes, watch sports with strangers.  I don't sit in the hotel room and drink alone.   I would explore.  Don't get me wrong..I had ample booze in my room.  You know...for emergencies.   Like lunch, after work, after getting home from a night out..you know.  Emergencies.  

Plus, when I come to DC area, I have a lot of old friends who live her and we stay in our own corporate hotel so there is always someone you used to work with who is up here for meetings or a training session.  Plus, we have a kickass deck on the top of the hotel.  Great spot to hang out, drink, swap stories, catch up, drink, prep for a night out, drink, have a night cap....you know.  Emergencies.  

[TwiceHorn 31440]

59 minutes ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

What is it about travel for work that is hard for some of you? Being stuck in a hotel at night? Being away from people you don't have to hide it from temporarily? Is it different than the social situations where you used to drink just because those are optional and work trips aren't? 

I haven't found that to be all that difficult, but I have lived alone for most of my adult life, so maybe that's a difference. I can see the temporary freedom to be a big trigger if you don't have it very often. 

I also still prefer to be around people that are drinking, so I might be unusual like that. Sober people bore me. Not the falling down drunk, hanging all over you people. I can do without that shit for sure. Just mean the normal drinkers that are having a good time and like to over-imbibe on occasion.  If I had any friends in Austin, I imagine I would go out more now than when I was drinking. Whether it was mainly a drinking environment or not. 

For newly sober, it's tiring, lonely, boring, away from accountability, there tend to be "work dinners" that are knee-deep in hookers and gin.  Sometimes stress letdowns from big events.

I'd wager that most normie work travelers would admit that they tend to drink more on the road than at home.

[Celery Man 20933]

yeah for me business travel was a ready made excuse to drink.  Airport layovers?  Drink.  Out with colleagues or customers after whatever the thing is?  Well yeah, drink.  All boring in the hotel room alone afterwards - better make sure you have a bottle ready, and why not go walk around and stop into a bar.

The thing that I have a hard time with now is not drinking but not wanting to send a message that I'm a stiff or weird or "oh Celery just ordered a diet coke so I guess I won't have a drink" stuff.  I'm sure a lot of that is only going on in my head because I'm the one who is weird about drinking.  But it is also a situation where people tend to ask "Oh do you not drink?" which sets off its own internal debate.

[Celery Man 20933]

hey you know what's a fun thing about not being a drunk?  My team has been helping get another team on the opposite side of the globe spooled up, and I have to do a lot of coordinating.  So I shifted my day back and started getting to work at 7:30.  And rather than it being slow torture, I've discovered that I really like it.

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

My friend's wife got sober a couple years ago and says now it's funny as hell catching all of the stuff the drunk people say at business dinners that she knows they are regretting the next day. 

Said she feels like she kind of has a leg up on most of the heavy drinkers because she remembers it all and doesn't slip up and say stupid shit like she used to.

 

So there's that.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

As a practical thing, once the "spiritual shift" occurs, an AA-alcoholic in good spiritual condition is "safe" in bars, work dinners, on the road, whatever.  But that shift is not often instantaneous.  It can take a while for even the most earnest adherent of the 12 steps.  It varies from person to person.

So, it's wise for the newly sober to avoid certain situations if possible.  And if those situations are unavoidable, extra precautions are worthwhile.

If you are newly sober and those situations seem unbearable or close to it, that's ok.  Keep working at it and it will improve.  Don't beat yourself up over it because some shithead with 20 years sobriety thinks you should be able to bartend at a titbar without a second thought at 90 days sober.

Edited October 3, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

Along those lines, I've been wondering a little bit about PAWS. I've read some on it briefly, but it just seems to be you can get really moody out of the blue for a couple days, up to a couple years after sobriety. I don't know that I would be able to tell because I haven't been sober since I was 14 so how would I know?

Is it something you guys have dealt with and is it obvious what's going on when it occurs? I think I was always moody anyway, so I'm not sure if I'd know if it was coming from psychological withdrawal from alcohol or just who I am.

[BearSchlong 8083]

I like the way this thread is heading. . .because it's a real thing, being out of town on business.

Over the years, business travel also meant the opportunity to find some excitement, usually lustful, in a different city and sometimes with fellow employees from various regional offices.  I'm ashamed to report that I had a few affairs that started while on business travel. I always wanted to use alcohol as a springboard for naughty behavior.  Ironically,  the night of my car accident which caused my separation from alcohol began with my trying to ply a woman with steaks and expensive wine.  She declined, I got drunk, woke up in the hospital, and a week later ended up in AA.

The main thing is that when I'm drinking, I'm unable to handle responsibility and challenges that normal people can easily take in stride.  I'd go to training/conferences/conventions and when other coworkers would say things like "I'm gonna be up all night answering today's emails" my reaction was basically fuck that, we have time to drink before we have to stagger back into tomorrow's session.  The concept that people would gather for a business purpose, to spread knowledge and ideas and cultural intelligence for a legitimate purpose was beyond my scope.

Thankfully things have changed.

[Celery Man 20933]

7 minutes ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

Along those lines, I've been wondering a little bit about PAWS. I've read some on it briefly, but it just seems to be you can get really moody out of the blue for a couple days, up to a couple years after sobriety. I don't know that I would be able to tell because I haven't been sober since I was 14 so how would I know?

Is it something you guys have dealt with and is it obvious what's going on when it occurs? I think I was always moody anyway, so I'm not sure if I'd know if it was coming from psychological withdrawal from alcohol or just who I am.

I experienced stuff that I attributed to PAWS at the time.  The stuff that I know was weird was that my memory/recall was really poor - I couldn't find words, names, would lose track of what I was doing.  Now, I wonder if maybe I was having general problems in that area as result of... being intubated/in a coma and on a bunch of drugs in the hospital, because my memory of that whole time is really bad or at least spotty.  For instance, I was just chuckling at a joke I remembered making about being "men of PAWS" with a friend at rehab, but I don't recall meeting that friend.  Or if i think back to the ~6 months following, it "feels" like reaching back for 20 year old memories.

[Dewey 3286]

8 minutes ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

Along those lines, I've been wondering a little bit about PAWS. I've read some on it briefly, but it just seems to be you can get really moody out of the blue for a couple days, up to a couple years after sobriety. I don't know that I would be able to tell because I haven't been sober since I was 14 so how would I know?

Is it something you guys have dealt with and is it obvious what's going on when it occurs? I think I was always moody anyway, so I'm not sure if I'd know if it was coming from psychological withdrawal from alcohol or just who I am.

Good question, I definitely deal with it, there was no way for to me know early on, it was when I began studying the effects alcohol has on the brain that I could blindly trust that I wasnt thinking right, overreacting to a situation. Or when I was deep in self pity thinking there was no way out of this thinking, that I'd remember that the effects of all that alcohol, and honestly,  drugs, because at the end.... I would just tell myself to chill, trust God. Almost a year and 10, I know when a situation can drag me down and have many tools to make a recovery. 

Its a real thing and the more knowledge we have on what drugs and alcohol do to our minds, the better we can battle. We can pinpoint "oh, okay, I know what's going on" and then attack it from there. 

Learn to trust everyone and everything, "there's two things that can happen when you trust, a person for life or a lesson in life."

[hullabelew 3723]

14 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I experienced stuff that I attributed to PAWS at the time.  The stuff that I know was weird was that my memory/recall was really poor - I couldn't find words, names, would lose track of what I was doing.  Now, I wonder if maybe I was having general problems in that area as result of... being intubated/in a coma and on a bunch of drugs in the hospital, because my memory of that whole time is really bad or at least spotty.  For instance, I was just chuckling at a joke I remembered making about being "men of PAWS" with a friend at rehab, but I don't recall meeting that friend.  Or if i think back to the ~6 months following, it "feels" like reaching back for 20 year old memories.

I was in the medical unit for the first 3 days doing detox.  They let us have the run of the place generally, but we were monitored at night, very closely.  I don't remember a thing about those 3 days.   And I blew a 0.0 when I checked in.  My buddy blew a .3.  What a fucking crew we were.  

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

4 hours ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

What is it about travel for work that is hard for some of you?

TwiceHorn nailed it, but it's personally not hard for me anymore. Now, for a lot of other good reasons, I tend to just say no to travel unless it's truly important, but traveling in no way challenges my sobriety now that I'm actually sober.

When you quit drinking and are 24-72 hours in, you are abstinent. You are not sober. In that state, for me, a business trip just added a lot of potential triggers to what was already a coinflip situation. Or maybe to say it better, it introduced a lot more coinflips. In Denver in August 2016, the flip came up heads. San Jose 2017, Boston 2018, it was tails. Thanks to my higher power and AA, it's not a coinflip for me anymore. It's more like trying to launch ICBMs. 

[Tylerocks 2553]

I just want to chime in here and thank each of you for sharing your stories and experiences here.  I have no doubt they are helping you as well as those reading them.

While in school we had and assignment for a sociology or psych class to attend an AA or NA meeting and relay our experience.  I wrote that I felt guilty being there and thought it was a bs assignment and on some level an invasion of privacy even though it was obviously anonymous.  I feel the same way checking in on this thread "for entertainment purposes".

 

I admire your courage and wish you all well in your continuous battles.

 

Hook 'em

[TwiceHorn 31440]

AAs generally don't mind sharing with normies.  It might get the word to someone who needs it later, or to a friend of the normie.

There are "closed" meetings for those who value anonymity to that degree or need to share some step work that's really personal.

[Reagan1k 3024]

18 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

AAs generally don't mind sharing with normies.  It might get the word to someone who needs it later, or to a friend of the normie.

There are "closed" meetings for those who value anonymity to that degree or need to share some step work that's really personal.

Twice nailed it.  Our primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics.  Too many of us die because we just don't know there is a solution.

Having non-alcoholics understand even a little about the program and the disease may save a life.

 

[El Diablo 4232]

Only issue I've ever had with having students attend an open meeting was when the chairperson allowed their presence to dictate the topic of discussion. No biggie, I stayed sober, lol. I didn't blame the guy for flirting with the co-eds but c'mon man! There's people there who might need more than pandering to the visitors.

[Errestaurants 2570]

As I stated in my previous post-traveling for work is my conduit for excessive drinking. Everyone pretty much summed it up and hit all the points. Nothing to do after work cause you are in a hotel, business dinners that include alcohol, away from home and in a different city with great restaurants, interesting people at the hotel bars at these business hotels that can understand where you are coming from who also are drinking. I can find every reason/excuse to drink away from home.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, thestud said:

Damn. Woke up this morning to news that the bottle had claimed a former coworker and friend. 39 years old, two daughters and a fiancée left behind.

I actually needed to hear that. Having a really hard time coping with anger right now. Sorry for your loss. 

Edited October 3, 2019 by SwanderedTalent