I'm An Alcoholic

[El Diablo 4,232]

It's also discussed in the Big Book about checking our motives when we do choose to be around booze. I've mentioned this before but I was a bit of a pool hustler when I was young. I had a natural talent for billiards. I started playing when I was a teen, before I ever drank. I continued to play all during my first drinking "career" and after getting sober in 1990 I continued to haunt pool halls and bars but only because that's where the pool tables were. Just my own experience. I had no interest in the booze or the drunk women (much)  . I've lost interest in playing pool since I've lost my eyesight but that's another story. If I could still see to shoot I might, MIGHT, be in a pool hall right now instead of sitting at home banging on the keyboard. But if I felt the least bit that I was on shaky ground my ass would be OUT. 

Edited November 9, 2019 by El Diablo
clarifying what I've lost interest in

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

Thanks. I'm not an AAer, so sometimes I need it spelled out for me. 

[BearSchlong 8,098]

Thanks. I'm not an AAer, so sometimes I need it spelled out for me. 

Practically speaking, it means that I can go to a concert, game, or a bar with friends, or a casino, resort, cruise, or a party, and the biggest choice I'm faced with is diet coke or club soda.

 

Hell, I'm taking the wife to Houston tomorrow for an anniversary getaway, got a suite at the ICON and I hope she drinks more than a little, if you catch my drift.

 

[BearSchlong 8,098]

Bump.  For no reason other than there's been no updates for a while.  How's everyone doing?

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

553 days. Feeling good. 

16,582$.  I put that in my little tracker too for how much I spent on booze. That also includes about 7 dollars a day for cigarettes that I quit at the same time and figured I might as well put that in there. Mine was pretty easy because it was about 1000 a month habit. That doesn't include going out, but I almost never went out the last 10 years or so. 

I was going to ask a while back if other people kept track of how much money they've saved. Some of you must be way up there. 

[BearSchlong 8,098]

Oh don't get me started on opportunity costs. . .and indirect costs like lost equity in houses that were sold under duress, attorney's fees, probation fees.

That desire chip was the most expensive token I've ever accepted.

 

[TwiceHorn 31,495]

Other than kind of "true jokes" in AA meetings, people don't talk about it much.  In the first IOP type treatment thing, we had to write something about our relationship with booze and part of it was to estimate what we spent.

[TwiceHorn 31,495]

Sounds good on your friend.  It's a start anyway.

34 days isn't enough.  It's not really a medical decision, probably more either insurance dictated or just "the plan."  Medicine doesn't know what it's doing really when it comes to treating addiction.  At least it's not driven by "I gotta get back to work" or "I got this, I'm ready" or some other evidence of misplaced priorities.

The "underlying issues" thing is something to beware of.  It's a handy excuse for a lot not to change their basic behavior as it concerns alcohol.  While it is true that other mental health issues accompany alcoholism, and encouraged it in the early days, the alcoholism is now an independent disorder and needs treatment priority.  That doesn't mean that the other issues don't deserve treatment, but it's a grave mistake to think you'll stay sober if you just treat that depression, or that bipolar, or that anger or PTSD.

All that said, you just never know when it's going to take.  It may well this time.  Will keep him in my thoughts/prayers.

[Celery Man 20,966]

I actually had more disposable income when I was deep in alcoholism.  Of course, it was a house of cards and I should have been fired and had my income drop to 0, but despite making a lot more now, I replaced my shitty apartment with a house and replaced spending money on either booze or guitars with a girlfriend/wife, and... you know trips and life and shit and still maybe some guitar stuff.

I'm having a really challenging time at work.  This project that my team has been working on for just about 2 years of rearchitecting and moving a huge analytics platform into the cloud (with a petabyte and change of data out of several global datacenters) is finally all coming together, which is chaotic.  And product management is really eager to get us working on the next big thing, which is this other big new thing which involves smashing two teams/platforms together and bringing on a new team across the fucking globe and me changing jobs slightly and a ton of FUD/personnel stuff and meanwhile we're trying to pull all of the various pieces of this big project together so that they land simultaneously in the same place at the right time or the whole world is going to burn down, and security assholes (lawyers of IT) are coming along and wanting to lock shit down in ways that are unnecessary and would prevent anything from functioning (or at least spend 12 hours in meetings having me beat them over the head line item by line item)... and shit like... someone who I like a ton giving me some "feedback" about a thing that they wanted help with and it's been a few days and I'm about to punch a coffee mug through their face, until I breathe for a couple of seconds and....

it is no fucking big deal at all.  It's easy.  Comparatively.  It's going to come together, we'll probably hit the deadlines or get close, this new thing may or may not work but barring something really disruptive even if it isn't great i don't see them pulling the plug until I have at least a year with a different job title/role that I think will move me in the right direction long term, whether its here or somewhere else.  And I'm going to be OK unless I'm not and even then, it's fine.

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

@BearSchlong

My status is alive and want to be alive. And my life gets better when I don't drink.

...but this fucking football season.

And I just want to be a good Dad because you can strip away a lot of this living and suffering and bullshit, but all I can really do is be there for him and to pass along to him, to the best of my abilities, my version of living and a higher power.

But bottom line we've got to beat Baylor.

[NIUHuskies 504]

Any room on this board for other addicts?

[Reagan1k 3,024]

4 hours ago, NIUHuskies said:

Any room on this board for other addicts?

You’re  welcome out on the dance floor.  The music is the same even though the moves may be a little different. 

[BearSchlong 8,098]

We're all addicts. . .alcohol in any form.

@NIUHuskies what's your story?

 

 

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

14 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Bump.  For no reason other than there's been no updates for a while.  How's everyone doing?

Eighteen months as of Tuesday. 

Slightly ominous we haven't heard from hundredTT in a while. 

[Sparky 149]

7 hours ago, NIUHuskies said:

Any room on this board for other addicts?

I used cocaine routinely for years and when I quit drinking I was able then to realize what abusing it had done to me.  So as Bear said yes, you're welcome here.

[El Diablo 4,232]

If alcohol were available as a suppository I would have analyzed the hell out of it. I don't make any distinctions.

[Reagan1k 3,024]

58 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

Eighteen months as of Tuesday. 

Slightly ominous we haven't heard from hundredTT in a while. 

Seems he around on other boards and appears to be doing well.  That's a good sign.

 

[TwiceHorn 31,495]

Out of rep for the recent posts.  Keep on keepin on gents.

[BearSchlong 8,098]

1 hour ago, Sparky said:

I used cocaine routinely for years and when I quit drinking I was able then to realize what abusing it had done to me.  So as Bear said yes, you're welcome here.

I keep waiting for a brave soul to start the "I'm a sex addict" thread.  Lord knows I've done enough step work on that particular compulsion.

My AA home group is full of addicts who are turned off by what they consider Nazi-like attitude of our local NA groups. . .apparently they have rigid guidelines on what can and can't be shared in their meetings, and it's common for someone to get called out for saying the wrong thing.  I've never been to NA so this is all anecdotal.

I chuckle when we're reading How it works at my home group - you can tell who has been to the local treatment center because they chant "step 1. . .step 2. . .step 3 etc"

[TwiceHorn 31,495]

6 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

I keep waiting for a brave soul to start the "I'm a sex addict" thread.  Lord knows I've done enough step work on that particular compulsion.

My AA home group is full of addicts who are turned off by what they consider Nazi-like attitude of our local NA groups. . .apparently they have rigid guidelines on what can and can't be shared in their meetings, and it's common for someone to get called out for saying the wrong thing.  I've never been to NA so this is all anecdotal.

I chuckle when we're reading How it works at my home group - you can tell who has been to the local treatment center because they chant "step 1. . .step 2. . .step 3 etc"

I have seen some somewhat less-than-welcoming attitudes at NA meetings.  At one point it was explained to me that a lot of their sharing does involve confessions of breaking laws so a part of their anonymity sometimes extends to drug of choice.

And some of their "old-timers" tend to be 1-2% biker types that tend to view themselves as more lawless than your average alky.

Edited November 14, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[Dewey 3,286]

8 hours ago, NIUHuskies said:

Any room on this board for other addicts?

This is where you find understanding and no judgement, as well as good advice. My experience,  I dont make much of any difference between the addict and alcoholic. It's all about getting help.

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

37 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

My AA home group is full of addicts who are turned off by what they consider Nazi-like attitude of our local NA groups. . .apparently they have rigid guidelines on what can and can't be shared in their meetings, and it's common for someone to get called out for saying the wrong thing.  I've never been to NA so this is all anecdotal.

I never saw it in practice, but was warned about it as a possibility when we used to take trips on the Sober Rover to NA meetings, i.e., "NAs don't want to hear about alcohol". 

[BearSchlong 8,098]

@JohnnyRage IIRC you met some of my buddies years ago up in DFW, can't remember if you met Buckley. . .

friend of mine from the Lakeside Conference was in a pretty bad fiery crash last week.  RIP Buckley.  Good dude. 

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/11/12/friends-denton-deadly-crash-victims-share-grief-detail-lives-lost/ 

They sorta blew his anonymity in the article. . .

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by BearSchlong

[Sparky 149]

1 hour ago, BearSchlong said:

I keep waiting for a brave soul to start the "I'm a sex addict" thread.

They might start the thread with good intentions but then Surly would take over with different intentions I'm afraid.

[Dertyberd 394]

All good here.  I've been laying low and trying to find a new job, layoffs coming at my current place of employment, my department is on the list.  The beautiful thing about life right now is that I can experience rejection and feel normal emotions (anger,dissapointment, frustration) without the thought of a drink or lashing out like a fool.  Lost out on a dream job the other day and that stung a lot, but it was fleeting.  It's truly a miracle that I can be this calm and not anxious about the future with all the uncertainty around.  If real bad shit comes, I'll deal with it then.  Right now I'm focusing on doing what I can do to have the best day I can and crank out resumes.  Recovery and a program can't get me a job, but it can help me deal with whatever life brings. 

I got kinda dark thinking for a second yesterday and asked myself, "what do I have that is really worth living for? Nothing has worked out the way I've wanted it to". It dawned on me later that I don't know yet and that is an amazing thing.  This is a spiritual journey and not a worldly one.  I didn't come all this fucking way for nothing, I just haven't seen it yet.  Good day to be alive and sober.  Love you all.  

Edited November 14, 2019 by Dertyberd

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

5 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

@JohnnyRage IIRC you met some of my buddies years ago up in DFW, can't remember if you met Buckley. . .

friend of mine from the Lakeside Conference was in a pretty bad fiery crash last week.  RIP Buckley.  Good dude. 

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/11/12/friends-denton-deadly-crash-victims-share-grief-detail-lives-lost/ 

They sorta blew his anonymity in the article. . .

 

Yes, he was the one that actually called me about the extra ranger’s ticket on my 100th day of sobriety. That call saved my sobriety. One of your friend’s sponsees picked me up for my second meeting ever, and we picked Buckley up along the way. I also ran into him in rehab when he came in to host meetings.

Edited November 14, 2019 by JohnnyRage

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

Holy Shit

[BearSchlong 8,098]

11 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

Yes, he was the one that actually called me about the extra ranger’s ticket on my 100th day of sobriety. That call saved my sobriety. One of your friend’s sponsees picked me up for my second meeting ever, and we picked Buckley up along the way. I also ran into him and rehab when he came in to host meetings.

That's right!  I did remember that.  I think I had a conversation with the guy that picked you up in our other friend's (Doug M.) garage in Atlanta at a BBQ for the 2015 International convention.  Josh?  All those are Stuart's guys. . .who I hosted 2 weeks ago when he came to speak at our gratitude dinner.

Edited November 14, 2019 by BearSchlong

[NIUHuskies 504]

The nitty gritty is that I am a sexalcoholic/lustalcoholic. I use porn and fantasy to escape the damages of an abused childhood. Entered SA in March. There are days that I struggle just staying off of porn sites, immersing myself in lust, and living with incredible fear. 

[TwiceHorn 31,495]

5 minutes ago, NIUHuskies said:

The nitty gritty is that I am a sexalcoholic/lustalcoholic. I use porn and fantasy to escape the damages of an abused childhood. Entered SA in March. There are days that I struggle just staying off of porn sites, immersing myself in lust, and living with incredible fear. 

That's rough.  I think all of us that have suffered compulsive behavior with chemicals have flirted with that sort of thing.  Anything to change your mood.

I would think that immersing yourself in the steps so that you aren't so inwardly focused would be immensely helpful with that.

Edited November 15, 2019 by TwiceHorn

[NIUHuskies 504]

I have done step work. Just need to continue to work it. Just thought I could use some another outlet. Saw this topic on the board last night and my mind goes "oh!" So I am here to admit that I powerless over lust and fear and be another voice here to help myself and others. And when I make a mistake promptly admit that i was wrong and make amends.

[TwiceHorn 31,495]

11 minutes ago, NIUHuskies said:

I have done step work. Just need to continue to work it. Just thought I could use some another outlet. Saw this topic on the board last night and my mind goes "oh!" So I am here to admit that I powerless over lust and fear and be another voice here to help myself and others. And when I make a mistake promptly admit that i was wrong and make amends.

Very good.  Welcome.  Fear is a big deal for all/most of us.  In most cases, it's any unknown and uncontrollable outcome (they're all pretty much uncontrollable, but add in unknown and it's even worse).

[BearSchlong 8,098]

I've struggled with the porn compulsion as well. I even went to some SAA meetings about 5 years ago but I didn't identify with the group because my acting out was online only (just pics/video) and didnt involve other people.

 

The moment I said "nope, not for me" was when I reported this to the group and one old fat hayseed looking guy wearing dickies overalls chuckled and said "just wait, it's progressive, you'll be cruising 11th street for crackhead hookers soon." Yeah, no. I just spend way too much time on pornhub, and I spend too much time checking out milf ass at HEB.

 

It's incredibly hard to be a recovered alcoholic while participating in objectionable behavior and lustful thinking. I felt like a fraud.

 

I'm working the AA steps again with a sponsor who is an alcoholic and sex addict. A gay man who almost died from an STD and picked up HIV. He's honest enough to be objective, and has cut through a lot of pride and ego bullshit that I've held onto for decades. I brought the sex stuff to my "official" AA sponsor and grand sponsor, but they didn't have the experience (or I was not ready) to make progress. I trust this guy because I know what he's been through, he's actually been one of my mentors since my very first AA meeting.

 

At almost 9 years sober I'm working a thorough 3rd step. I'm about to embark on what we anecdotally call "Allison's inventory" which is a local recovery urban legend, a 485 question inventory designed to uncover everything that's ever happened in my life that contributed to my disease. I start this weekend.

 

I'm comfortable standing up in front of 300 people, sharing my first and last name, and talking about my drinking. Admitting to and talking about sex problems is a thousand times more difficult for me.

 

I've read the pornfree subreddit for many years and its tragic to read the stories. I first discovered porn mags and VHS tapes when I was was 12 but I've had available female partners since I was 15 with zero dysfunction. There are people in their late 20s who were raised on internet porn and are still either virgins or can't physically engage in actual sex with another person. Their brains are just rewired and they're so sick and desperate.

 

Much respect to those who can be honest in all their affairs, no pun intended. I believe that an AA meeting for men who have sex compulsions would be well attended. 100% against the traditions and singleness of purpose, but as a practical matter I know it would be helpful.

 

Very grateful to[mention=1579]NIUHuskies[/mention] for his honesty.

 

 

 

 

[NIUHuskies 504]

1 hour ago, BearSchlong said:

I've struggled with the porn compulsion as well. I even went to some SAA meetings about 5 years ago but I didn't identify with the group because my acting out was online only (just pics/video) and didnt involve other people.

 

The moment I said "nope, not for me" was when I reported this to the group and one old fat hayseed looking guy wearing dickies overalls chuckled and said "just wait, it's progressive, you'll be cruising 11th street for crackhead hookers soon." Yeah, no. I just spend way too much time on pornhub, and I spend too much time checking out milf ass at HEB.

 

It's incredibly hard to be a recovered alcoholic while participating in objectionable behavior and lustful thinking. I felt like a fraud.

 

I'm working the AA steps again with a sponsor who is an alcoholic and sex addict. A gay man who almost died from an STD and picked up HIV. He's honest enough to be objective, and has cut through a lot of pride and ego bullshit that I've held onto for decades. I brought the sex stuff to my "official" AA sponsor and grand sponsor, but they didn't have the experience (or I was not ready) to make progress. I trust this guy because I know what he's been through, he's actually been one of my mentors since my very first AA meeting.

 

At almost 9 years sober I'm working a thorough 3rd step. I'm about to embark on what we anecdotally call "Allison's inventory" which is a local recovery urban legend, a 485 question inventory designed to uncover everything that's ever happened in my life that contributed to my disease. I start this weekend.

 

I'm comfortable standing up in front of 300 people, sharing my first and last name, and talking about my drinking. Admitting to and talking about sex problems is a thousand times more difficult for me.

 

I've read the pornfree subreddit for many years and its tragic to read the stories. I first discovered porn mags and VHS tapes when I was was 12 but I've had available female partners since I was 15 with zero dysfunction. There are people in their late 20s who were raised on internet porn and are still either virgins or can't physically engage in actual sex with another person. Their brains are just rewired and they're so sick and desperate.

 

Much respect to those who can be honest in all their affairs, no pun intended. I believe that an AA meeting for men who have sex compulsions would be well attended. 100% against the traditions and singleness of purpose, but as a practical matter I know it would be helpful.

 

Very grateful to[mention=1579]NIUHuskies[/mention] for his honesty.

 

 

 

 

There are a lot of S groups. I am in Sexaholics Anonymous. Just straight SA. We are aligned to the AA mission pretty tightly. We read the Big Book and 12 and 12 rigorously. Our founder was an AA and decided to reach out to our ilk.

We have people who come to us that are in various degrees addicted. Their acting out (mine included) had reach that desperation point whether it was habitual masturbation, porn binges, affairs or prostitution. Our addiction is lust;

Sa.org is the website .

Meeting times for Texas.

https://www.sa.org/f2f/united-states-of-america/texas/

[BearSchlong 8,098]

Very happy you've found them.

[hullabelew 3,724]

On 11/13/2019 at 6:24 PM, BBQ2Bayou said:

553 days. Feeling good. 

16,582$.  I put that in my little tracker too for how much I spent on booze. That also includes about 7 dollars a day for cigarettes that I quit at the same time and figured I might as well put that in there. Mine was pretty easy because it was about 1000 a month habit. That doesn't include going out, but I almost never went out the last 10 years or so. 

I was going to ask a while back if other people kept track of how much money they've saved. Some of you must be way up there. 

Using a VERY conservative number, I'm at a little of 6 months and about $6,000 so my number is really close to yours.  

 

[El Diablo 4,232]

I never did the $$$'s saved calculations. I do know that my financial amends should be completely paid up in a year or so and that's a weight off of my shoulders. Just one more thing to be able to look the world in the eye about.

@BearSchlongI'm interested in that Allison's inventory, can you share it here?

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

The only reason I did the money tracking thing was because it was right there in my sober app so I put it in. The only thing it has done for me is make me justify buying shit I don't need. "I didn't need that at all." "Sure you did, Joe. Look at the money you've saved from not drinking". 

Compulsive brain's gonna compulse, I suppose. 

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31,495]

No issue with the money counting.  It's a valid tactic and every little everything can help.

But the premise of AA is basically that trying to rationally approach your drinking just doesn't work for a certain type of alky.  While intolerable consequences can bring you to AA and sobriety, simply recalling those consequences (e.g. playing that tape to the end) doesn't work for that type of alky.  That's what is meant by the "blind spot" that's referred to.  When it comes down to it, a certain type of alky is just not going to be able to rationalize their way out of a drink and many more to follow.

[El Diablo 4,232]

44 minutes ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

The only reason I did the money tracking thing was because it was right there in my sober app so I put it in. The only thing it has done for me is make me justify buying shit I don't need. "I didn't need that at all." "Sure you did, Joe. Look at the money you've saved from not drinking". 

Compulsive brain's gonna compulse, I suppose. 

 

 

Ha, yep. There's joy to be had in compulsive spending too and it can have damaging consequences as well. If it ain't one thing, it's another.  

[BearSchlong 8,098]

1 hour ago, El Diablo said:

 

@BearSchlongI'm interested in that Allison's inventory, can you share it here?

I haven't seen it yet, but once I do I might.

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

4 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

I haven't seen it yet, but once I do I might.

post your fully-filled-out version!

[BearSchlong 8,098]

Edited November 15, 2019 by BearSchlong

[BearSchlong 8,098]

Checking in with an indignant, militant rant for a moment. . .

Last night I went to a smaller meeting with my sponsor, a sponsee, and some guys I whose sobriety is attractive to me.  A book study, but right now we're going through the traditions.

Tradition 5 - Each group has but one primary purpose—to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.  If you haven't read this chapter in the 12 and 12, it'll get your attention - the story of Bill W and his defiant "irishman."

Had a huge realization that I'm not doing 12 step work - of course right now I'm on a 4th step - but when I'm done, I'm going to really seek out some wet drunks who actually want help.

I'm also done signing probation/parole slips.  As far as I'm concerned, the Texas department of corrections can stop dropping newly-released women from the local transitional living facility into my home group.  It's weary being in a meeting and having to sign 20 "attendence" logs for people who don't want to be there.

Some  will disagree with me, noting that they got to AA via a judge, or that being sentenced to AA planted the seed that later bloomed into continuous sobriety.  That's fine.

My other gripe is another group I attend, where there are like 600 years of sobriety in the room and zero newcomers.  A member commented "we don't see you often" and my reply was "cause this group is too sober, it's boring. what do 20 people with double digit sobriety sit around and talk about?"

I'll find the happy medium soon, probably by taking a meeting to the men's treatment center.  

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

Lol, good stuff. I mostly agree, but I hope you don’t feel too off balance about it.

In my meetings journey there seem to be a correlation between the number of papers being signed and the amount of bullshit in the room.

And then a couple of years later, I found myself on paper, ha. Not from a judge though.

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

Kinda always wondered why people on parole/probation mandated by the court to go to AA, who don't want to be there, don't put together that "anonymous" is in the name and there's no way to check that signature. Or is there? 

I've been mandated to hundreds of AA meetings by judges and have never attended a meeting. And it wasn't only because I didn't want to be there, but I didn't want to waste the time of people who were there for help. I knew I didn't want the help, so why should I impose on meetings of those who are there for help? 

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

24 minutes ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

I've been mandated to hundreds of AA meetings by judges and have never attended a meeting.

they might be onto something there

[El Diablo 4,232]

9 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

they might be onto something there

Old timer from my first go 'round in 1990 had this to say, and it may be common in the rooms as so many things we hear aren't original...

"There's an old saying that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. HOWEVER you can let the horse see how much others are enjoying the water, how cool and refreshing it is. You CAN help make the dumb horse THIRSTY!"

ETA: The old attraction rather than promotion principle.

Edited November 19, 2019 by El Diablo

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

1 hour ago, SwanderedTalent said:

they might be onto something there

Having a drinking problem was never a question. Even in my own mind. 

[BearSchlong 8,098]

2 hours ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

Kinda always wondered why people on parole/probation mandated by the court to go to AA, who don't want to be there, don't put together that "anonymous" is in the name and there's no way to check that signature. Or is there? 

I've been mandated to hundreds of AA meetings by judges and have never attended a meeting. And it wasn't only because I didn't want to be there, but I didn't want to waste the time of people who were there for help. I knew I didn't want the help, so why should I impose on meetings of those who are there for help? 

If there's a blank for phone number, I'll put mine in.  My thinking is that if some poor PO actually called me I would confirm that I signed the slip, although there is no way of me knowing it's owner.

One thing that I've been shirking is taking the local AA phone calls for a weekend.  They always call me right in the middle of an important conference call or work project and I'll think "man, I'm busy and don't have time for this shit." - that's me being a bad AA member.  I'm going to stop by the intergroup office and give them my personal cell number (I must have given them my work cell number) and volunteer to take calls over the holidays.  I can match it up to when my wife is on-call for her job.