I'm An Alcoholic

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Side topic: Is there such a thing coexisting as an Alcoholic and a Real Alcoholic? It would seem so if the disease of addiction is progressive. But those are also specific terms being applied to a subjective curve.

I see it somewhat this way...

Abstinent - Doesn't play with fire

Normie - Dammit

Problem Drinker - Suffers from consequences, but repeats similar behaviors

Heavy Drinker - Tearing their body down with near continuous drinking

Alcoholic - It doesn't work anymore, cravings-consequences-mental obsession, needs help quitting drinking, relapses

Real Alcoholic - Life is terrifying and almost worse without alcohol. Death can be around any corner.

[futureman 22444]

a little levity, crosspost from one of the lulz threads

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

16 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

Side topic: Is there such a thing coexisting as an Alcoholic and a Real Alcoholic? It would seem so if the disease of addiction is progressive. But those are also specific terms being applied to a subjective curve.

I see it somewhat this way...

Abstinent - Doesn't play with fire

Normie - Dammit

Problem Drinker - Suffers from consequences, but repeats similar behaviors

Heavy Drinker - Tearing their body down with near continuous drinking

Alcoholic - It doesn't work anymore, cravings-consequences-mental obsession, needs help quitting drinking, relapses

Real Alcoholic - Life is terrifying and almost worse without alcohol. Death can be around any corner.

your last two are the only ones where I don't necessarily see a clear delineation, unless maybe it's between alcoholics who could still conceivably quit and harbor a desire at some level for a sober life, and those who've just absolutely given up....? The latter category maybe being at a point where doctors are like "you can't even safely detox that person" a la Townes Van Zandt at the end.

[Celery Man 20933]

16 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

Side topic: Is there such a thing coexisting as an Alcoholic and a Real Alcoholic? It would seem so if the disease of addiction is progressive. But those are also specific terms being applied to a subjective curve.

I see it somewhat this way...

Abstinent - Doesn't play with fire

Normie - Dammit

Problem Drinker - Suffers from consequences, but repeats similar behaviors

Heavy Drinker - Tearing their body down with near continuous drinking

Alcoholic - It doesn't work anymore, cravings-consequences-mental obsession, needs help quitting drinking, relapses

Real Alcoholic - Life is terrifying and almost worse without alcohol. Death can be around any corner.

I see the distinction as more underlying cause (and importantly, necessary steps) than severity of problem. Anyone can drink to the point that their life falls apart and they need medical help to detox safely. A non-alcoholic person with a drinking problem can get tired of it, hit the gym and get laid and pull themselves out of their funk, and maybe even return to normal drinking. Alcoholics drink because they are alcoholics and they need to apply alcoholic fixes to their alcoholic problems.

I think the distinction can be really important because of that last part, especially if a non alcoholic starts to dominate an AA meeting with a lot of information about their experience that can be destructive to alcoholics who need help but are being convinced they don't need to make the changes they need to make. I'm also not a fan of the weird dick measuring contests that alcoholics can get into, however. And also I don't think there has been much in the way of... that being a problem here in this thread. Or explicitly, I wouldn't want to dissuade anyone who thinks they may be an alcoholic from participating in this thread (and I don't think we have a problem here with non-alcoholics who participate subverting the purpose of this thread inasmuch as it is a virtual AA meeting of sorts).

[JohnnyRage 1617]

23 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

your last two are the only ones where I don't necessarily see a clear delineation, unless maybe it's between alcoholics who could still conceivably quit and harbor a desire at some level for a sober life, and those who've just absolutely given up....? The latter category maybe being at a point where doctors are like "you can't even safely detox that person" a la Townes Van Zandt at the end.

The book uses the term, and there are some that separate themselves by identifying as a ‘real alcoholic’. 
 

I think what they are getting at is that they were at the jumping off point (suicidal, can’t live with it can’t live without it), that life was even more terrible when they put down the drink, and that for them to drink is to die.

That’s not me. But I do know for a fact that I am on the spectrum of being an alcoholic. They also say that it’s a progressive disease. That means that there is a range.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

another separator that you hear is ‘recovered alcoholic’.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

What happened for me is that I was still flirting with some semblance of functionality when I began flirting with sobriety.  A big part of that was denial, of course, but I didn't feel like I was in a struggle for my life or my soul.

The first couple of failed attempts were accompanied not only with failure to stay sober, but accelerating consequences, to the point where I was more or less in a living hell.  I could no longer tolerate drinking and I could no longer tolerate just being abstinent and I was scared as hell of going through with the program.

When I embarked on my final, to this point, attempt to get and stay sober, it was with a pretty firm conviction that it was my last go-round.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

5 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

When I embarked on my final, to this point, attempt to get and stay sober, it was with a pretty firm conviction that it was my last go-round.

That is one of the best things I feel like I have going for me, at this point. It is not supremely sufficient-- I can't rely just on the feeling like "this is it, or bust" for me-- but it has reframed the decision-making process for me. If I pick up another drink at this point, it will only be because I don't want to be alive anymore. 

Part of the deal for chronic relapsers, at least this chronic relapser, was the idea that some bright shiny day, I really will get this thing and get sober and be the best me, but that's not here yet. Now, my view of relapse and recovery is, if I have to try to sober up again, I really don't think I will make it. I might (or sadly might not) try to get sober again, in this hypothetical, but I no longer think it's axiomatic that I'd become a success story if I had to start over from Day 1. That's partially what I've seen and learned in the program and partly an extrapolation of how much harder it got every time. 

[Reagan1k 3024]

The progressiveness for me was more along the lines of how I "managed" the disease.  I have come to believe that I was born this way as opposed to drinking my way into some dependence.   I also think that can happen but once it does, the progression then is probably the same with regard to the physical cravings and mental obsession.

My evidence for this is that after some period of sobriety and reflection, I can identify that I always had the craving.  From drink one at an early age, I was never satisfied with one drink even when I could use better judgement and stop.  I was always unsatisfied.

That's what I have come to understand as the allergy manifesting a physical craving.  Even in high school and college, I can recall often wondering things like "How can bars operate if they know that everyone who drives there will leave and be guilty of drunken driving."  It never occurred to me that one could drink and not get drunk.

Later when of age, I didn't understand the concept of a Bloody Mary for brunch and not drinking the rest of the day. 

When I was forced to do that, it started as an uncomfortable feeling and in later years progressed into a monumental feat of willpower that eventually was too much.

When I did practice moderate, social or "normie" drinking, it was a chore and not enjoyable at some core, primal level.  

I was functional, and could drink socially, but always had to finish the job at some point in the day or night.

That's when the lying and sneaking part comes in.

As the disease progressed, I had less and less ability to control the amount I consumed and when I occasionally did control the amount, the dissatisfaction with it and the restlessness increased.

Finally, I gave up any notion of controlling AND enjoying my drinking.  Those two could not coexist.

When I read the book and it talks about a hard drinker who given sufficient reason to stop or moderate can do so successfully and without wanting to blow their brains out, I picture someone who abuses alcohol, but is not prey to the allergy and mental obsession.  They dry out, clean up, and move on without the bottle resting on their shoulder whispering - "we should be drinking" 24/7/365.

Another way I try and explain it to normies (like my wife).

They for whatever reason think  I need a drink.  What they really mean is that they want a drink - the choice is implied and real for them.  They choose to take the action of drinking in moderation or to excess.

When I was to think I need a drink, I really needed to drink (not by choice) in order satisfy the mental obsession preceding and then the physical craving that started following the 1st drink.

That's rambling, but so be it.  Just my experience.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Rosey Grier could kick all of our asses and knitted like a mofo 

[Celery Man 20933]

That’s cross stitch bro

[DallasHorn26 586]

I'm really not posting for any reason, but to share, cause I find it helps me. I've posted here in the past and have lurked for a while. I've known for a long time I needed to be here, but wasn't fully ready. Last month, I was canned from work. Just one of many things I've destructed because of this disease. It was finally the thing that took me there. Within 5 days if that, I cleared out my apartment, out my belongings in storage and checked into residential treatment. I've attended meetings in the past but never fully committed to the program or realized the beauty of it and the big book. I left rehab this week and checked into a sober house. I'm jobless, near broke, with no income coming in, and falling behind on my child support, but I'm sober, I have my dog with me, I've reconnected to my higher power, am the happiest I've been in years. This is the first time I've committed fully to the program and had a sponsor and it feels so different this time. Anyhow, I'm rambling now, but I'm glad to be here.

 

 

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

5 minutes ago, DallasHorn26 said:

I'm really not posting for any reason, but to share, cause I find it helps me. I've posted here in the past and have lurked for a while. I've known for a long time I needed to be here, but wasn't fully ready. Last month, I was canned from work. Just one of many things I've destructed because of this disease. It was finally the thing that took me there. Within 5 days if that, I cleared out my apartment, out my belongings in storage and checked into residential treatment. I've attended meetings in the past but never fully committed to the program or realized the beauty of it and the big book. I left rehab this week and checked into a sober house. I'm jobless, near broke, with no income coming in, and falling behind on my child support, but I'm sober, I have my dog with me, I've reconnected to my higher power, am the happiest I've been in years. This is the first time I've committed fully to the program and had a sponsor and it feels so different this time. Anyhow, I'm rambling now, but I'm glad to be here.

 

 

 

 

Work the program, it will work for you.  I can virtually guarantee it.  By "work for you," I think you will find your situation vastly improved in a matter of months, both psychologically and in the more material realm.

Edited May 31, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[BearSchlong 8083]

I'm really not posting for any reason, but to share, cause I find it helps me. I've posted here in the past and have lurked for a while. I've known for a long time I needed to be here, but wasn't fully ready. Last month, I was canned from work. Just one of many things I've destructed because of this disease. It was finally the thing that took me there. Within 5 days if that, I cleared out my apartment, out my belongings in storage and checked into residential treatment. I've attended meetings in the past but never fully committed to the program or realized the beauty of it and the big book. I left rehab this week and checked into a sober house. I'm jobless, near broke, with no income coming in, and falling behind on my child support, but I'm sober, I have my dog with me, I've reconnected to my higher power, am the happiest I've been in years. This is the first time I've committed fully to the program and had a sponsor and it feels so different this time. Anyhow, I'm rambling now, but I'm glad to be here.
 
 
 
 

Good post. Good place to start. Those broke, busted, but newly sober days were some of the best in my life. I'm in your corner.

[DallasHorn26 586]

Good post. Good place to start. Those broke, busted, but newly sober days were some of the best in my life. I'm in your corner.

Thanks man. I've definitely enjoyed you're posts over the years.

Sent from my moto g(7) optimo (XT1952DL) using Tapatalk

[baboso 6054]

4 hours ago, DallasHorn26 said:

I'm really not posting for any reason, but to share, cause I find it helps me. I've posted here in the past and have lurked for a while. I've known for a long time I needed to be here, but wasn't fully ready. Last month, I was canned from work. Just one of many things I've destructed because of this disease. It was finally the thing that took me there. Within 5 days if that, I cleared out my apartment, out my belongings in storage and checked into residential treatment. I've attended meetings in the past but never fully committed to the program or realized the beauty of it and the big book. I left rehab this week and checked into a sober house. I'm jobless, near broke, with no income coming in, and falling behind on my child support, but I'm sober, I have my dog with me, I've reconnected to my higher power, am the happiest I've been in years. This is the first time I've committed fully to the program and had a sponsor and it feels so different this time. Anyhow, I'm rambling now, but I'm glad to be here.

 

 

 

 

Godspeed.  Work it.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

@DallasHorn26

I’ll go to a meeting with you. Shoot me a pm.

[Nolacycling 893]

I spoke w/my daughter today and she revealed husband is in treatment for alcohol. It's been a couple months and then he'll go to another situation and earn right to come home.  Longterm program, which I would believe is good. No kids, I think she still loves him. We're not close and I had no idea. He had lost his job, I had chalked it up to Virus. 

Just thinking how hard it must be as an adult  with freedom of movement to kick this to the curb. My younger daughter went through drug issues in hs, but we were able to put her in a program and school that completely cut off her peer group and dominated her free time which was probably the most helpful thing in changing her mentality. 

Tearing up.

[hullabelew 3723]

In pondering life this morning...then opening up my normal threads on here....this thread, the guitar and the dog threads are about the only places where people are civil to each other.  It makes me feel content and proud to be a guitar playing, dog owning, alcoholic.   

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 hours ago, hullabelew said:

It makes me feel content and proud to be a guitar playing, dog owning, alcoholic.   

If I can learn to stop peeking elsewhere on this board, I'll be happier. Otherwise I'm out of here.

[Bash Riprock 1695]

I have been sober 10 months today.

 

God, I offer myself to Thee To build with me
and to do with me as Thou wilt.
Relieve me of the bondage of self,
that I may better do Thy will.
Take away my difficulties,
that victory over them may bear witness
to those I would help of Thy Power,
Thy Love, and Thy Way of life.
May I do Thy will always!
Amen 

[hullabelew 3723]

2 minutes ago, Bash Riprock said:

I have been sober 10 months today.

 

God, I offer myself to Thee To build with me
and to do with me as Thou wilt.
Relieve me of the bondage of self,
that I may better do Thy will.
Take away my difficulties,
that victory over them may bear witness
to those I would help of Thy Power,
Thy Love, and Thy Way of life.
May I do Thy will always!
Amen 

Outstanding @Bash Riprock

[Bash Riprock 1695]

I have been to 8 treatment centers and at least 12 detox centers. If you or a loved one have tried numerous Treatment centers I would like to recommend this treatment center. 

https://belairerecovery.com/

Great place. Excellent trauma therapist. She has done numerous Ted Talks on recovery and Trauma. This place saved my life, 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

[hullabelew 3723]

So…after in-patient, I enrolled in an IOP run by a different company.  It was perfect for me and I met several people who I talk to on a daily basis.  Dan is one guy in particular.  We got along great, right off the bat.  He has helped me immensely and I like to think I haven’t hampered him.  Our families get along great…he and his wife are younger than us and they have a 5 yr old boy.  We kayak and play guitars together…hang out, go out to eat….good clean fun.  I helped his wife find a new job when she decided to go back to work after taking time off when they had the baby.  Dan had really helped me get into meditation.    He even runs several meditation groups for the IOP now…just on his own, and has started a podcast that he and another patient hope to develop into something much more.

Little background.  He did 6 years on a fed drug charge (about 12-15 years ago) when he got caught up in a sting that resulted in stupid mandatory minimum jail term.  The judge apologized to him.  He did his time…..then did well for a while, then relapsed once….back on local probation in metro about 3-4 years ago.  Did well, relapse…car wreck that should have killed him, new drug charge in a different (remote) part of the state.  This is what caused him to be at the IOP when I met him a year ago.  This case apparently had its own legal issue (drugs at the scene of the crash/in his system) but would also likely trigger a probation violation of the metro case from 3-4 years ago.   He has been hoping that the new case would end up in something less than a year…said he would be happy with that…and whatever happened with the outstanding probation, he was good with that.  He was completely at ease with whatever was coming his way.

Fucking mandatory terms are bullshit.  He supports his mother who lives next door to him, pays for both houses that he completely remodeled.   After the new charge, he stepped down from his position on the board of the company he works for and has been installing tile and on work jobs.  He has some other income from a residential rental.    

Just got off the phone with him.  New case, prosecutor isn’t budging….10 years, 3 to serve.   

I am completely devastated, and I can’t imagine what he and his wife and mother are going through.    He is about the nicest, most laid back, thoughtful person I know, and a lot of my recovery is due to his presence in my life.   Incredible song writer and singer, talented and creative construction guy…EVERYONE he meets is instantly drawn to him.  Thanks for letting me babble and ramble. 

[Jerry Callo 8699]

Sorry to hear about your friend, Hullabelew.

[BearSchlong 8083]

Thank you for sharing that, Hullabelew.  Wreckage of the past is so arbitrary sometimes.

Staying sober and helping other alcoholics is how I pay my debt for my own unpunished felonious behavior.  I'm real sorry about your buddy's circumstances.

 

[hornbri 1396]

I had stayed sober for 90 days and lost it this week. Wife left town and I decided to drink. Back to day 2 now. This shit is hard.

i know from you all it’s possible. Did the meeting northland this morning (virtual).  That’s great group of people. 
 

[Jerry Callo 8699]

10 minutes ago, hornbri said:

i know from you all it’s possible

You know from you it's possible.  Putting 90 days together is no small feat.  Put your sober head on the pillow tonight and then do it again tomorrow.

[BearSchlong 8083]

I had stayed sober for 90 days and lost it this week. Wife left town and I decided to drink. Back to day 2 now. This shit is hard. i know from you all it’s possible. Did the meeting northland this morning (virtual).  That’s great group of people. 

 

 

Just keep coming back, relapse isn't mandatory but it sure is useful. And now you've identified a reservation. 

MY grand sponsor and I were in the Northland virtual speaker meeting last night, speaker was a lady with 48 years.

 

Next friday night the 19th my dear friend Heidie Jo M. From Brady tx is telling her story in the Northland zoom room. She is the most spirited woman I've ever met. Beautiful. Profane. Hilarious. Married to a rancher that gave her a herd of horses and the time to work the steps with countless women. You should come, its gonna be a hoot.

 

Thanks for your honesty, that's all it takes. Rigorous honesty. The willingness will come when its time.

 

I didnt want to stop drinking, I just wanted the unmanageability in my life to stop. Ah, but I was powerless over the drink and what I did when I was loaded.

 

 

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

1 hour ago, hornbri said:

I had stayed sober for 90 days and lost it this week. Wife left town and I decided to drink. Back to day 2 now. This shit is hard.

i know from you all it’s possible. Did the meeting northland this morning (virtual).  That’s great group of people. 
 

Great job with honesty about it and getting back on the horse.  As bear says, relapses aren't mandatory, but it's a very popular "option."  When you are honest about it and don't let it spiral out of control, you can put it to work for you as a learning experience.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

On 6/10/2020 at 11:17 AM, hullabelew said:

So…after in-patient, I enrolled in an IOP run by a different company.  It was perfect for me and I met several people who I talk to on a daily basis.  Dan is one guy in particular.  We got along great, right off the bat.  He has helped me immensely and I like to think I haven’t hampered him.  Our families get along great…he and his wife are younger than us and they have a 5 yr old boy.  We kayak and play guitars together…hang out, go out to eat….good clean fun.  I helped his wife find a new job when she decided to go back to work after taking time off when they had the baby.  Dan had really helped me get into meditation.    He even runs several meditation groups for the IOP now…just on his own, and has started a podcast that he and another patient hope to develop into something much more.

Little background.  He did 6 years on a fed drug charge (about 12-15 years ago) when he got caught up in a sting that resulted in stupid mandatory minimum jail term.  The judge apologized to him.  He did his time…..then did well for a while, then relapsed once….back on local probation in metro about 3-4 years ago.  Did well, relapse…car wreck that should have killed him, new drug charge in a different (remote) part of the state.  This is what caused him to be at the IOP when I met him a year ago.  This case apparently had its own legal issue (drugs at the scene of the crash/in his system) but would also likely trigger a probation violation of the metro case from 3-4 years ago.   He has been hoping that the new case would end up in something less than a year…said he would be happy with that…and whatever happened with the outstanding probation, he was good with that.  He was completely at ease with whatever was coming his way.

Fucking mandatory terms are bullshit.  He supports his mother who lives next door to him, pays for both houses that he completely remodeled.   After the new charge, he stepped down from his position on the board of the company he works for and has been installing tile and on work jobs.  He has some other income from a residential rental.    

Just got off the phone with him.  New case, prosecutor isn’t budging….10 years, 3 to serve.   

I am completely devastated, and I can’t imagine what he and his wife and mother are going through.    He is about the nicest, most laid back, thoughtful person I know, and a lot of my recovery is due to his presence in my life.   Incredible song writer and singer, talented and creative construction guy…EVERYONE he meets is instantly drawn to him.  Thanks for letting me babble and ramble. 

Yeah, that's one of the more heartbreaking aspects of recovery.  I have known quite a few people with good recovery doing good things that had to go down for a while.  It's what has made me a criminal justice reform maniac.

[Reagan1k 3024]

1 hour ago, hornbri said:

I had stayed sober for 90 days and lost it this week. Wife left town and I decided to drink. Back to day 2 now. This shit is hard.

i know from you all it’s possible. Did the meeting northland this morning (virtual).  That’s great group of people. 
 

I’m glad you’re back.  The obsession of the mind is a bitch.  I only speak from my experience, but the freedom doesn’t come from the meetings.  They are vital and they help, but the freedom from the mental obsession come from working the steps with a sponsor and then working with others.  
 

The originators of this way of life didn’t have meetings, and certainly not like we do.  They had each other and the steps which they did with haste. 
 

My personal observation is that my sponsees who slip up are all “fixin to” work the steps where as my guys who dive into the process right away seldom if ever consider drinking and when they do they have the power to let that thought pass.

I pray nothing but the best for you.  You CAN stay sober one day at a time... you’ve already done it.  Just keep adding days and grab some power through the steps. 

[Dewey 3286]

Get sober for yourself and no one else, that was told to me early on and I'm thankful for it. Have a mission and go for it. My mission became the first clear cut goal I ever had in my life. When I went off to college I didn't know what to major in, when I dropped out I didn't know what line of work or life to live. For me, my mission became a peace of mind and no matter who enters or leaves my life, I'm always on that mission.  

Find yours, be it the same, similar or different and stick to it,  you will be amazed to look back. 

[hornbri 1396]

3 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Next friday night the 19th my dear friend Heidie Jo M. From Brady tx is telling her story in the Northland zoom room. She is the most spirited woman I've ever met. Beautiful. Profane. Hilarious. Married to a rancher that gave her a herd of horses and the time to work the steps with countless women. You should come, its gonna be a hoot.

Thanks for the support from everyone.  I will make sure to hear from Heide Jo as well. How much we can change is crazy, I am looking forward to listening to a sober woman, on a Friday night. 

[futureman 22444]

18 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

I didnt want to stop drinking, I just wanted the unmanageability in my life to stop.

when did the urge to drink finally leave you?  like really leave you.  I’m almost at 14 months going on 18 years and I’m not sure I’ve ever really not wanted to drink.  to be honest, these days I think it’s the fear of the unmanageability combined with the fact that I’m older now that is keeping me from buying a bottle through this fucking virus.  I am more conscious of the need to actively hold my life together than I was when I was 25. 

[Tailgate 3021]

So fucked up. Got the text and call tonight while thinking it was a goodnight to relax and forget about all the shit going on.

My uncle finally succumbed to this unreal disease. I visited this thread many times to try and understand....posted once about him...I’m still in disbelief. The guy taught me so much when I was young...my dad was in Vietnam and my moms brothers became my other fathers...this guy had the biggest heart and we made each other laugh until we could breathe.

Im at a loss. But I appreciate the courage and battle all of you, and I, face with this shit.

Im still a student and the lessons are getting harder.

[TexArcher 37770]

On 6/4/2020 at 7:42 AM, hullabelew said:

In pondering life this morning...then opening up my normal threads on here....this thread, the guitar and the dog threads are about the only places where people are civil to each other.  It makes me feel content and proud to be a guitar playing, dog owning, alcoholic.   

I got this trifecta, too.

And the other one: depression, anxiety, and addiction.

Playing guitar sober next to a dog is better.

[TwiceHorn 31440]

9 hours ago, futureman said:

when did the urge to drink finally leave you?  like really leave you.  I’m almost at 14 months going on 18 years and I’m not sure I’ve ever really not wanted to drink.  to be honest, these days I think it’s the fear of the unmanageability combined with the fact that I’m older now that is keeping me from buying a bottle through this fucking virus.  I am more conscious of the need to actively hold my life together than I was when I was 25. 

If you work the steps, it will leave.  

I think most of us view(ed) it as some sort of solution to something, some kind of problem.  Once you start working the steps (it never ends, really, and it may take a couple of passes before you get really thorough) whatever problems you have don't seem to require any external solution anymore.  It doesn't mean they don't bother you some, but not to the extent that getting boiled as an owl seems like an appropriate or desirable thing to do.  You don't even have to balance positives in your life with the negatives that you know will ensue from drinking.  Drinking just becomes as unnatural as sticking your dick in a meat grinder.

Edited June 15, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Dewey 3286]

9 hours ago, Tailgate said:

So fucked up. Got the text and call tonight while thinking it was a goodnight to relax and forget about all the shit going on.

My uncle finally succumbed to this unreal disease. I visited this thread many times to try and understand....posted once about him...I’m still in disbelief. The guy taught me so much when I was young...my dad was in Vietnam and my moms brothers became my other fathers...this guy had the biggest heart and we made each other laugh until we could breathe.

Im at a loss. But I appreciate the courage and battle all of you, and I, face with this shit.

Im still a student and the lessons are getting harder.

 I'm sorry for your loss, we all know how ugly this disease is, how it drags everyone down. I will say we are students of life, for life, each and every one of us, a drunk, addict or neither, we are all students,  and while this lesson is a hard one to take, they aren't always this hard, that things do get better.  Try to smile, even if its a forced smile, something comes from that.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

21 hours ago, futureman said:

when did the urge to drink finally leave you?  like really leave you.  I’m almost at 14 months going on 18 years and I’m not sure I’ve ever really not wanted to drink.  to be honest, these days I think it’s the fear of the unmanageability combined with the fact that I’m older now that is keeping me from buying a bottle through this fucking virus.  I am more conscious of the need to actively hold my life together than I was when I was 25. 

I'm in a similar situation at the moment-- it's not that I want a drink per se. I don't have any illusions about it being fun, and I can't get oblivious enough to not realize what a horrible mistake I'm making so there's no relief there either. But between COVID, the race riots, and being laid off from a tech job, my stress level is as high as it's been since I got out of rehab in June of 2018. I don't sit around thinking "man a drink would sure help" or "I wish I could get drunk", but I'm in this perpetual stress state where little things like my three-year-old not doing what she's told just push me into this stratospheric level of anger and frustration and the thought of a drink pops into my head. Mix in what TexArcher was talking about, and I feel pretty combustible right now. 

And I'm with you, more than anything else, it's fear keeping me in line: the fear of returning unmanageability, the fear of how hard it would be to sober up again, etc.

But, I really do not think any of this, or even all of it simultaneously, would feel as insurmountable as it feels right now IF I were working the program. But thanks to the COVID shutdowns, my options there are Zoom meetings and phone calls, both of which I fucking hate. I don't hate 'em more than relapse, but goddamnit if I have to listen the audio pixelization of Zoom trying to manage thirty people mumbling the Serenity Prayer one more time, I'm going to go nuts.

There's just a lot of anger right now. I am having to learn, painfully, how to live in anger and move past it without trying to drink it away.

11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

If you work the steps, it will leave.  

I think most of us view(ed) it as some sort of solution to something, some kind of problem.  Once you start working the steps (it never ends, really, and it may take a couple of passes before you get really thorough) whatever problems you have don't seem to require any external solution anymore.  It doesn't mean they don't bother you some, but not to the extent that getting boiled as an owl seems like an appropriate or desirable thing to do.  You don't even have to balance positives in your life with the negatives that you know will ensue from drinking.  Drinking just becomes as unnatural as sticking your dick in a meat grinder.

Agreed. To me, relapse over time went from flipping a light switch on or off, to there being an entire house's worth of breakers that have to be flipped. Right now, really being outside the program, I'm barely setting them back before something trips them again. I'm not close to relapsing, but I'm much closer than I've been at any point since June of 2018, because I'm angry.

Edited June 15, 2020 by SwanderedTalent

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

and I should point out, at the most base level, my anger is basically "not getting what I want". And that's why the alcoholic part of my brain thinks drinking is such a fine solution to anger, because for me, drinking is the repeated process of "what I want is a drink / I have a drink in my hand / I just drank it / I got what I wanted!!!! / now what I want is another drink". 

In that scenario, I'm estranged from my wife and daughter and locked in a dark hotel room with the curtains closed and bombed on Skol vodka at 11 in the morning. But I'm "getting what I want" so there's no anger and that is a huge relief to my brain. 

[BearSchlong 8083]

when did the urge to drink finally leave you?  like really leave you.  I’m almost at 14 months going on 18 years and I’m not sure I’ve ever really not wanted to drink.  to be honest, these days I think it’s the fear of the unmanageability combined with the fact that I’m older now that is keeping me from buying a bottle through this fucking virus.  I am more conscious of the need to actively hold my life together than I was when I was 25. 

I cant really pinpoint that, but according to the Big Book the 5th step really helps the urge to be lifted. I can say that when I'm sharing the unvarnished truth about myself and my relationship with alcohol and hear myself or read my writing then it seems absurd. All the descriptions in the Big Book make perfect sense to me.

My separation from alcohol, though, was abrupt, one day I couldn't imagine life without it, and a few days later I couldn't imagine life with it.

When it became my idea that i could lead a sober successful life then it crowded out the urge to drink.

I'm an all or nothing kind of guy - whether I'm drinking or not. I just dont seem to have a "low or medium" setting, just "balls to the wall."

[hullabelew 3723]

Another dude from my rehab stint passed away.  That is 7:  5 ODs, 1 gun shot and now this one.  Those are just the ones I know of...I'm sure there are more.   What makes this one more bizarre is he worked there, in the financial aid office.  Just about the jolliest, nicest dude I've met.  ALWAYS had a smile on his face.  Just another sign that this shit is more powerful than just about anything.  Dude sees people on their worst days as they crawl or are dragged in the door.  And he saw us as we left...with a glint of hope in our eyes.  Yet still, he succumbed.  

[futureman 22444]

4 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

curtains closed and bombed on Skol vodka at 11 in the morning

haha, fuck, man.  I can relate to that.  jesus. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by futureman

[futureman 22444]

39 minutes ago, hullabelew said:

Another dude from my rehab stint passed away.  That is 7:  5 ODs, 1 gun shot and now this one.  Those are just the ones I know of...I'm sure there are more.   What makes this one more bizarre is he worked there, in the financial aid office.  Just about the jolliest, nicest dude I've met.  ALWAYS had a smile on his face.  Just another sign that this shit is more powerful than just about anything.  Dude sees people on their worst days as they crawl or are dragged in the door.  And he saw us as we left...with a glint of hope in our eyes.  Yet still, he succumbed.  

sorry to hear it. 

[TwiceHorn 31440]

12 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

and I should point out, at the most base level, my anger is basically "not getting what I want". And that's why the alcoholic part of my brain thinks drinking is such a fine solution to anger, because for me, drinking is the repeated process of "what I want is a drink / I have a drink in my hand / I just drank it / I got what I wanted!!!! / now what I want is another drink". 

In that scenario, I'm estranged from my wife and daughter and locked in a dark hotel room with the curtains closed and bombed on Skol vodka at 11 in the morning. But I'm "getting what I want" so there's no anger and that is a huge relief to my brain. 

Yeah, that strikes at what I have concluded is kind of the heart of the matter, at least for me and those that I am close enough to in the program to have shared my experience with fairly deeply, to include threadmates here if that's not too presumptuous. 

The self-will run riot or what I call almost total inward-dwellingness.

Somehow, addicts get into this "I" loop.  "I'm not happy."  Various matters, to include damn near everything, "aren't going the way I want them to."  "I, I, I, I."  Well, one thing I can do that is sort of rebellious, destructive, and all about me is get fucked up.  You come to realize that you can't or aren't controlling anything in your life except how fucked up you are, and then you reach the point where you can't control that either.  

Which is why the higher power concept seems so necessary for many:  to fully acknowledge that whatever that power may be, "I" ain't it.  "I do not, in fact, run this shit."  And then the working with others to keep the focus off oneself and reinforce the principles by seeing them work or fail in others. And going through the resentments/amends things allows you to accept yourself and not struggle so much with everything; that is, the fact that you don't control everything is ok, in fact, it's better than ok, it's great and is not a poor reflection on yourself.

[hullabelew 3723]

14 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

allows you to accept yourself and not struggle so much with everything; that is, the fact that you don't control everything is ok, in fact, it's better than ok, it's great and is not a poor reflection on yourself.

This bit right here is the very basis of everything for me right now.  I was trying to explain it to someone recently and you nailed it right here. Thanks.

[Reagan1k 3024]

Powerful thoughts from Twice.  Well said.

My bottom line is that all I can control are my actions and reactions to events surrounding me.

When problems come up, I can work on the problem or I can work on me.  The problems never get any better when I bear down on them.  What does get better, if and when I choose to let go, are my actions and reactions. 

I can't re-hit any shot I've already taken and sometimes even my best shots land in a divot through no fault of my own, but I can do the next right action based on where I find myself in this exact moment.

I'm so far from perfect at it, but when I'm mindful of it good things happen.  Bad things happen too, but I can find myself in less dis-ease (disease) if I'm focused on right here and right now.

For me, it was little things at first.  I'd get wound up over politics and social drama.  My sponsor suggested that I quit listening to political radio and stop watching the 24 hour news cycle.  In short order, the political turmoil seemed to improve.  Intellectually I knew it was still going on, but it didn't affect me as much and seemed to be better when I didn't allow my mind to participate in something over which I had no control.  Most of my life's problems die of neglect.

The book says when I am disturbed, something is wrong with me.  That's a tough pill to swallow at first but it becomes more palatable and eventually it becomes freeing when I look inward instead of outward.  What am I scared of?  What am I worried about losing or not getting?  Am I OK, right here and right now?

Most of the time I suck at it, but I'm at least mindful and when the gut tightens enough, I'll say "oh yeah....this feeling is my own doing".  The event or circumstance is not my doing but the reaction to it is. 

If I start whining to my sponsor he tends to remind me that if I find myself in a world full of assholes and confrontations, then I'm the common denominator in each equation.

 

[Celery Man 20933]

Sorry to hear about that Swandered. I'm in not quite the same boat, but we're expecting another 15% cut next week when I'm going to be out of office. I was just thinking about how I should remind my boss that I'll be out in case he needs to fire me. Anxiety inducing, but the thought of drinking didn't occur.  I remember the first time that that happened - trivial bump that would have made me crave strongly (in this case, an argument about tacos) and I didn't even think about it. That was probably 8 months into sobriety, and of course I did plenty of thinking about drinking after that and every now and then I get a weird strong urge. But they get more and more just... nostalgic, like a strong memory from a past life.

 

Keep your head up in the job search. It's probably always demoralizing, but it's I think maybe especially fucked up now in terms of... jobs that are posted but don't actually exist, or a large pool of people needing work, etc. I've started looking, and it really sucks to get back a "we've decided to not move forward" for whatever reason, especially if you have all these applications out there silent. It'll be ok.