I'm An Alcoholic

[hundredTT 577]

13 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Relapses happen, sometimes even kind of by accident.  Don't let it bury you.  Kudos for your honesty.

Also, pro-tip.  The general rule on NA beer is a) it still has some alcohol in it and probably enough to goose those neural pathways and start up a craving if you guzzle them; and b) even if it was completely alcohol-free, it is "romancing the drink," which is not a good idea for the newly sober.

Yea, will not be making that mistake again. I tried a sip of it and it was nasty too. No point to even go down that path. 

[TwiceHorn 31438]

The whole "romancing the drink" issue is a little bit implicated by my love for fizzy water.

A lot of us find that if you're in a drinky social situation, you can get a club soda with lime so as not to stick out like a sore thumb.  Until you figure out that most people don't notice or give a shit whether you're drinking or not (and if they do, it's highly likely that they're working on a problem of their own).

From that, I learned that I liked fizzy water and started buying it first as club soda, then seltzer water, and then Topo and all the stuff available now.  By the time I became a real regular consumer of fizzy water, I was pretty secure in my sobriety.

But, at least as far as I can remember, a nice cold carbonated water is the closest facsimile to a cold beer on a hot day.  For that reason, I sometimes hesitate to recommend it to the newly sober.

Edited July 5, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Relapses happen, sometimes even kind of by accident.  Don't let it bury you.  Kudos for your honesty.

Also, pro-tip.  The general rule on NA beer is a) it still has some alcohol in it and probably enough to goose those neural pathways and start up a craving if you guzzle them; and b) even if it was completely alcohol-free, it is "romancing the drink," which is not a good idea for the newly sober.

 

1 hour ago, hundredTT said:

Yea, will not be making that mistake again. I tried a sip of it and it was nasty too. No point to even go down that path. 

I asked about it in early sobriety as a thirty-year old who wasn't in any way ready deep down to actually give up alcohol. The wisest answer I got was, "Non-alcoholic beer is for non-alcoholics". 

I remember somebody in outpatient rehab getting in trouble for drinking two non-alcoholic beers. The lengths this person was willing to go to in order to insist that regardless of what our rehab program's rules explicitly said about drinking them, and regardless of anyone else's experience and regardless of what the big deal about rationalizing stuff into "not a big deal", she knew in her heart that she could handle non-alcoholic beer. 

Of course she did have two of them, not one. And she did say "I wanted to try <some IPA> but I had the willpower to order a non-alcoholic beer instead!" So.

Hope she's sober wherever she is.

Edited July 5, 2020 by SwanderedTalent

[TwiceHorn 31438]

8 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

 

I asked about it in early sobriety as a thirty-year old who wasn't in any way ready deep down to actually give up alcohol. The wisest answer I got was, "Non-alcoholic beer is for non-alcoholics". 

I remember somebody in outpatient rehab getting in trouble for drinking two non-alcoholic beers. The lengths this person was willing to go to in order to insist that regardless of what our rehab program's rules explicitly said about drinking them, and regardless of anyone else's experience and regardless of what the big deal about rationalizing stuff into "not a big deal", she knew in her heart that she could handle non-alcoholic beer. 

Of course she did have two of them, not one. And she did say "I wanted to try <some IPA> but I had the willpower to order a non-alcoholic beer instead!" So.

Hope she's sober wherever she is.

Interesting that there were "rules," and she "got in trouble."  In my first foray into sobriety, I went to an outpatient deal.  And in the first week I drank.  Sure enough, they tested us the following day.  I fessed up and expected a horsewhipping or something.

All I got was a big "meh," and one nurse said, "you're an alcoholic, that's what you do."  I think I got raked around a little in group in terms of psychology.  What were you thinking?  How did you feel?  Etc.

That whole kind of "whatever" response was really about perfect in terms of breaking into my "self regard" or "inward dwellingness" that is so much part of being a drunk.  So that's how I handle relapses with those I work with.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

17 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Interesting that there were "rules," and she "got in trouble."  In my first foray into sobriety, I went to an outpatient deal.

I'm using the wrong term for that stage. It wasn't the "OK, go home, see you 3x/wk and if you don't show up, we'll notify your insurance and you'll be on the hook for the cost of treatment" stage of outpatient treatment. It was the "OK, insurance doesn't want to pay for you to be in in-patient anymore, time for you to move to a sober house for lodging and then come to our facility from 9 to 3 daily for treatment" stage. I always forget what that's called. 

So we were still technically in in-patient (where the rules are far more strict), we just didn't live at the in-patient facility anymore at that point.

[Jerry Callo 8698]

19 hours ago, hundredTT said:

That is a horrible box.  Bad for those trying to avoid alcohol.  Bad for those actually drinking - WTF would I want with three 0.0% beers.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

9 hours ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I'm using the wrong term for that stage. It wasn't the "OK, go home, see you 3x/wk and if you don't show up, we'll notify your insurance and you'll be on the hook for the cost of treatment" stage of outpatient treatment. It was the "OK, insurance doesn't want to pay for you to be in in-patient anymore, time for you to move to a sober house for lodging and then come to our facility from 9 to 3 daily for treatment" stage. I always forget what that's called. 

So we were still technically in in-patient (where the rules are far more strict), we just didn't live at the in-patient facility anymore at that point.

I get it, it makes sense. It just made me think of an event and kind of how "rules" typically aren't part of recovery, just guidelines.

The place I went was just a couple of weeks, IIRC.  I kind of phased into recovery over a period of 18-24 months, culminating in a 30 day inpatient stay.

I did as much damage to myself and my life in that 18-24 months as I did in pretty much my entire prior 15 years of drinking.  And the relapses and benders in that period never lasted more than about a week, and there weren't more than five of them.

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

Marriage is falling apart, discovered emotional infidelity, spent the extended weekend with about 30 drunks... I'm still sober, and I'm loving every minute of it.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

4 minutes ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Marriage is falling apart, discovered emotional infidelity, spent the extended weekend with about 30 drunks... I'm still sober, and I'm loving every minute of it.

Sorry, man.  Might be for the best.

[Dewey 3286]

52 minutes ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Marriage is falling apart, discovered emotional infidelity, spent the extended weekend with about 30 drunks... I'm still sober, and I'm loving every minute of it.

"Unfortunately or fortunately,  we have to pass through many an ebb and flow before we settle down to real peace " 

Remember the long term,  all the best to you.

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Sorry, man.  Might be for the best.

Negative.  Christ centered recovery.  I need Christ, she needs Christ, we need Christ.  

[EE2B 1565]

Question for the collective. I’ve been a regular drinker for the past 20+ years. I could turn it off after 5-6 beers most nights and would probably drink 4-7 nights a week depending on what was going on.

Recently I realized that at some point I had become a gigantic asshole when I drink and for the next several days after. This realization forced me to do some self evaluation and made me come to the conclusion that I needed to stop. It’s been a couple of months since I’ve had a drink and I really have no desire to drink anymore.

I say all of this to give some background for my question. For a couple of weeks I was extremely lethargic. Just no energy to do shit. It seems to be turning around now and I’m feeling pretty good. Is this normal for someone giving up alcohol after so long? Thanks and I’ve enjoyed reading this thread. There are some damn good people in this community.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

32 minutes ago, EE2B said:

For a couple of weeks I was extremely lethargic. Just no energy to do shit. It seems to be turning around now and I’m feeling pretty good. Is this normal for someone giving up alcohol after so long?

That's really hard to say. It varies a lot based on age and physiology. Some newly sober people will be extremely energetic, some will want to hibernate. I wrote and deleted a lot of speculative stuff, there are just so many variables it's really hard to say what it's down to.

But thinking it through, I'm pretty sure you have leukemia.

[Reagan1k 3024]

Squandered is right...probably leukemia - covid induced at that.

But, it could be just your body's reaction and very easily be related to "carb-flu".  Same deal as anyone who has done Atkins, Keto or whatever...your body goes through withdrawals because it has been conditioned to live on those alcohol carbs for so long.  It'll pass.

Many of us experienced "unexplained" cravings for sweets when we dried out and come to find out it was a natural reaction to cutting out the sugars/carbs when we quit.

Glad to hear that you were able to identify something that was objectionable to you and take action. 

Don't be a stranger if you like what you read here. 

[gasman 114]

First, let me say kudos to being willing to do an honest self evaluation. It took me a lot longer (and more negative consequences) to get to that point. Carbs (or lack there of), cerebral neurotransmitters and receptors (dopamine and seratonin) get altered with long term drinking. It can take while for you body to readjust to not receiving the stimulus is was before. My first 30 days were a blur of highs and lows. Totally normal. Or, it could be leukemia. Glad you are feeling better. 

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

I can say with no medical knowledge of shit, as said above, it is probably most definitely the sugar that threw your body off. I didn't realize how powerful that was. 

There are times now where I would choke a small child for a snickers bar. Never cared for sugar before. 

[TwiceHorn 31438]

In addition to being a carb, alcohol also has a very rapid effect on blood sugar.  In that sense, it's much like glucose, which is in most carbs or which carbs will metabolize to.

And there is the notion of "carb addiction," which is probably tied to that bump in blood sugar and its effect on the brain.

I don't think any of it is the same type of addiction as that to alcohol with its physiological and psychological components.

But it's definitely a "thing," that requires some adjustment to.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

50 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Squandered is right

new site motto

50 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Many of us experienced "unexplained" cravings for sweets when we dried out and come to find out it was a natural reaction to cutting out the sugars/carbs when we quit.

I still get a low-key, undefined craving at 5 PM, from (I think) years of opening that first beer after work. Carbs or sugar will fix it, but it's still my brain telling me "insert alcohol here". 

[gasman 114]

A little article on dopamine surges associated with sugary food consumption and how it relates to alcohol. 

https://wellnessretreatrecovery.com/sugar-and-dopamine-link-sweets-addiction/

[Dewey 3286]

Guess thats why exercise is so important (dopamine). For me, my "exercise " comes at work, I know its not the best kind of exercise.  I walk 7 to 10 miles a day, from one floor to the next, with a tool backpack, loaded down. So when I get home, I dont want to do anything.  I thought about buying a stationary bike,  but worry it'll end up as a place to hang clothes. 

As for the sugar, I'm taking my truck in for the weekend, I won't have a ride. So I loaded up on reeses, twix and a jumbo milkyway. I also got two cans of dip, though one can will be enough.... can't risk it! 

I see my old patterns with alcohol in my candy and nicotine fixes. I've tried to quit candy and it wasn't good, tried a few substitutes, no bueno. As for dipping,  maybe the patch? Sugar has proven to be a bigger bitch than I thought, always knew nicotine would be rough. 

[Reagan1k 3024]

The good news is that no one ever went to jail b/c the ate too many Jolly Ranchers or dipped too much snuff. 

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

On 7/9/2020 at 7:34 PM, Reagan1k said:

The good news is that no one ever went to jail b/c the ate too many Jolly Ranchers or dipped too much snuff. 

Kinda close, though. 

 

Quote

Seahawks WR Tate 'very embarrassed' by doughnut run gone awry

Quote

Golden Tate wanted a late-night snack. He nearly was arrested for it.

Caught trespassing in a Top Pot doughnut shop at 3 a.m. Saturday, the Seattle Seahawks' rookie wide receiver instead received a warning from Bellevue, Wash., police.

"They just kind of said, 'Don't do it again,' which I won't," said Tate, a second-round draft pick out of Notre Dame.

"They're irresistible," Tate said. "It was a foolish mistake that won't happen again, but if you ever want some maple bars, that's the place to go."

https://www.nfl.com/news/seahawks-wr-tate-very-embarrassed-by-doughnut-run-gone-awry-09000d5d8188e09e

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Yeah, a medium aged old timer who occasionally rubs me the wrong way brought up the analogy of going to the grocery store and buying two loafs of bread. He compared that we don't go home and make a sandwich and then uncontrollably eat the rest of the bread.

But some people do. I gave up candy and ice cream for the month of July. I've run through three boxes of Snyder's Hard Sourdough Pretzels. I can do a whole box in an evening and I have very little control. I often eat out of boredom and loneliness. There is a food/sugar dopamine response that can become addictive.

There are other obsessive pleasure behaviors that came before my alcoholism. And for me, the around the clock active addiction took some years of training. But I think they are all tied together. I worry about this younger generation with their video games and cell phones.

Edited July 12, 2020 by JohnnyRage

[Jerry Callo 8698]

Checking in with 18 months today.

Wife pissed me off about 3 hours ago. 19 months ago I would have thoroughly dealt with the issue with bourbon. Not today.

[hundredTT 577]

After my 4th of July relapse, I’ve been good. Sleep has been much better physically, but been having nightmares about covid 19 almost every night, feel like I’m not getting any mental sleep. My work had a big uptick last week, but I didn’t think it bothered me much, guess not. I just bought some CBD Gummies for anti anxiety and sleeping as melatonin hasn’t done shit for me lately. Just ate one and feel almost buzzed. Know it is in my head, but I’m very relaxed, hope this isn’t a bad move. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by hundredTT

[Kennythetiger 9375]

Have you tried a weighted blanket?  

[cactusflinthead 27598]

Popped up on the feed

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158708350123459&id=818628458

Mary Gauthier 30 years

[hullabelew 3723]

She does a pretty good TedX Talk about it.  

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

14 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Great stuff Jerry.

HundredTT you ever wanna talk you've got my number. 

Two items first sugar.

So in my youth I worked at a Braums and was the grill guy. Quick aside, I used to stash the empty/leftover whip cream cans for getting a quick whip it high. I was 15. So... Now getting back to sugar, after leaving I honestly didn't eat sugar for nearly 30 years. On a rare occasions at a nice restaurant I'd have something, but that was about it. I hated sweet booze options. Then I quit drinking. I wasn't told about the sugar issue. It vexxed me. Occasionally, maybe once every other month, when I want to "party" on a Friday night I get a pizza and some local made ice cream. I regret it as my body hates it, sorta like booze.

On weed, even in my drunken days, I could take a single hit and walk away from it. I never cared for the weed high. I'm pretty sure I could smoke it and be okay, but lack of inhibitions might lead me to booze. I'm a huge CBD advocate, but my brain tells me, unless I need it for my joints, which may come, I'm too nervous to get involved with it. Then, at that, I would only use it when at home without access to booze. Might not paranoid over reaction, but it's for good reason.

I smoke pot and never have been worried about it triggering drinking again. Part of it might be I was never much of a smoker during my drinking decades, so they aren't associated for me. 

On the other hand, I have some non drinking alcoholic friends that drink NA beer and I don't think I could drink a sip of that without having a difficult time, so I never touch it. I really do miss the taste of beer from time to time, so I've thought about having one. Just don't quite trust myself enough with that. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Does it cause obsessive thinking? Does it result in consequences?

If not, who am I to have an opinion.

If the answer is yes, that's when normal people remove the problem. But sick people...we pour fuel on the fire.

[BearSchlong 8083]

Damned well said Johnny.

Probably the wrong thread but sorta apropos. 

Last night the pup was in the yard sniffing around and yelped and started licking her paw.  Wife suspects it was an ant bed and when pup came back in the house she was slightly favoring her paw but was otherwise wagging her tail and acting unconcerned.

Wife - "what if her paw swells up and we have to get it amputated and she dies?"

Me - (interrupting her before she could finish the sentence) "STOP. JUST STOP TALKING." (yeah I know, nice 10th step amend opportunity forthcoming).  Why do you always immediately make the jump to the worst possible outcome?  That's insane!" (oopsie)

(1 hour passes)

She comes in my office and says I'm only going to say this once but sometimes you are so condescending and speak to me like I'm a child and I HATE IT.  Does an about face and leaves.

(another hour passes)

Me: "Honey, I'm very sorry for talking to you the way I did.  It was wrong and I shouldn't have done it.  I can't wonder how when something slightly concerning happens you turn it into a disaster.  That's not how my mind works.

Her: "I'm an al anon.  We are ALWAYS waiting for the OTHER SHOE TO DROP and we assume it's going to be bad, so If I can get there first then I might be able to prepare for it and fix it."

Me: "I'm an alcoholic, and very early on in AA I learned there are NO MORE BIG DEALS, we've already been through the wringer, we're alive and all I have to do is live life on life's terms one day at a time."

FTR she's never seen me drunk, I'm not her qualifier for Al Anon.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

I probably shared this before...

 

 

[ztejas 43411]

30 days clean today. Which makes it 83 out of the past 87. Trying to avoid the relapse this time. 

[ztejas 43411]

On 7/12/2020 at 6:24 PM, hundredTT said:

After my 4th of July relapse, I’ve been good. Sleep has been much better physically, but been having nightmares about covid 19 almost every night, feel like I’m not getting any mental sleep. My work had a big uptick last week, but I didn’t think it bothered me much, guess not. I just bought some CBD Gummies for anti anxiety and sleeping as melatonin hasn’t done shit for me lately. Just ate one and feel almost buzzed. Know it is in my head, but I’m very relaxed, hope this isn’t a bad move. 

I don't count CBD as a relapse or "using" and many if not most people would say the same. Now, if you start using it to chase the mild high that it might produce then you might want to take a step back. i.e. if the jar of gummies is gone after 4 days. But like someone above said, no one is going to jail or beating their wife over a jar of CBD gummies.

On the sugar, yeah. It's a real thing. I've bought more candy and hostess bullshit since going to rehab than I probably did in 5 years before that. Obviously it's not optimal, but some things you're probably better off replacing than trying to white knuckle yourself into insanity. 

I started smoking cigarettes which I'm not super happy with myself about but it's pretty easy for me to keep it to 3 or so a day. I was never a big smoker and didn't start at a young age so I'm not going to start smoking half a pack a day but again, optimally I wouldn't smoke at all. If it helps me resist the urge to go buy a bottle then that's a trade off I'll have to take - because I'm really only a few bottles away from killing myself, someone else, or finding out what an extended stay in jail is like.

Oh, and on NA beer - my first question would be why? Because for me it would be like pouring a bunch of lube around my asshole then bending over and waiting for Satan. Okay, maybe you liked the "taste" of beer, but I'm guessing it was part of a greater affinity that involved the alcohol.

Edited July 21, 2020 by ztejas

[Celery Man 20931]

Man I’ve been drinking the shit out of this since Vernor’s stopped appearing on the shelves here. Also I ate the shit out of haribo sour gummies in early sobriety

[ztejas 43411]

6 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Man I’ve been drinking the shit out of this since Vernor’s stopped appearing on the shelves here. Also I ate the shit out of haribo sour gummies in early sobriety

I've been destroying sour patch kids.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

Pro tip:  those sour things can be hell on your teeth.

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

Haha. Yeah, be careful @ztejas. I put on 40 pounds of milk dud weight in the first few months. Damn I miss Milk Duds

[ztejas 43411]

15 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Pro tip:  those sour things can be hell on your teeth.

My teeth are fucked. I'm going to need a 401k for the dentist at this point.

[BearSchlong 8083]

CBD doesn't kick off the phenomenon of craving in me.  Know how I know?  Because I have 2 bottles of tincture in my medicine cabinet right now and I haven't thought about them for a few weeks, it took Ztejas post above to remind me that i actually had them.

Since I started eating a very low sugar/low carb diet in 2014 and dropped 50 lbs, I am like a CRACKHEAD with deserts on the infrequent occasions when I indulge.  The sugar craving for me is just as powerful as any alcohol craving I've ever had.  I'll be at a birthday party or social gathering (remember those?) and I almost get tunnel vision, like nothing matters at all except me getting that cake.  The first few weeks of the covid shutdown I found myself at the Whataburger drive through too, #2 with cheese and jalopenos and large fry.  Got to where that became a little bit of an obsession so I cut that out and for the last month have been eating really good.

Friday Night's speaker meeting at Northland was MIldred, a lady who got sober in 1973.  She was a patient of Dr. Abram Hoffer, who was one of Bill Wilson's buddies - I did some googling and apparently Dr. Hoffer and Bill did some anecdotal experiments with Alcoholics taking Niacin (Vitamin B3) supplements.

Interesting to watch.  

 

So of course as an alcoholic I'm mildly fascinated by this.

Edited July 22, 2020 by BearSchlong

[Celery Man 20931]

I had the sugar thing really bad in early recovery. I also have a fear of not being able to sleep, related to my alcoholism. Was a big problem for alcoholic me, could never sleep if I wasn't drunk, would be stressed about needing to get to sleep by x time to wake up by y time and therefore I need to be solidly drunk by then and therefore I need to start drinking at z and I need w amount of alcohol on hand.

I don't know at what point it flipped but I definitely.... a) if I eat a bunch of candy or something like that i'll get a headache, and b) I don't like to eat sugar late because it will cause me to not be able to sleep. Man I used to eat cereal before going to bed when I was fresh out, and now I will definitely *not* eat cereal late because it will keep me up. If I'm hungry before I'm going to bed I eat almonds. I also really only eat 1.5 times a day (shake in the morning, dinner at night, potentially almonds if I'm a little hungry at bedtime), and I don't ruin dinner with sweets, and I don't eat sugar late, and apart from maybe ice cream right after dinner I don't have the opportunity for sweets.

I'm in love with this shake though - 

blend 1/4 cup of oats, set aside in tall cup. put 1/2 cup yogurt, 1/2 cup milk, 1 banana, 1/4 teaspoon each of cinnamon and nutmeg, and dash of vanilla in blender (bullet if you've got it). cup of frozen strawberries/blackberries/blueberries in blender, dump in the ground oats, a little bit of honey. Blend the shit out of it, pour and drink.

I mean I guess that's still a ton of sugar right there.

[Jerry Callo 8698]

In the kitchen pantry is where I kept bottles of alcohol and my ever refilling flask.  I would get up from watching TV with the wife several times every evening to take a swig from the pantry.  Now I have M&Ms, cookies, or other sweets in the pantry - which I get up several times every evening to take a nibble.  I wonder is there is some correlation?

[BearSchlong 8083]

3 hours ago, Jerry Callo said:

In the kitchen pantry is where I kept bottles of alcohol and my ever refilling flask.  I would get up from watching TV with the wife several times every evening to take a swig from the pantry.  Now I have M&Ms, cookies, or other sweets in the pantry - which I get up several times every evening to take a nibble.  I wonder is there is some correlation?

Absolute correlation.

When I got sober, I'm pretty sure I was prediabetic.  42 waist, drank way too many cokes and ate sweets all the time.  2014 I had another moment of clarity, 3pm on a Sunday afternoon at a subway sandwich shop.  Went Keto, went from 250 to 190, 33 inch waist, have kept it off now for 6 years.  It's fucking awesome, constant energy level.  Almost like a biohack, but it took about 90 days for my body and brain to get adapted.

I simply cannot keep sugar sweets in the house, I will eat them all.  Now I keep dark chocolate sweetened with Stevia and have a few squares in the evening when I get a sweet craving.  My wife invented a desert called "whip" which is a quart of heavy cream, 2 small boxes of sugar free pudding mix, a brick of cream cheese, and in the fall a can of pumpkin - whip that up with the hand mixer and it's the perfect desert.  Total fat bomb.

Yes my bloodwork looks great, low A1C, moderate cholesterol, certainly way better than it did when I was drinking.

In addition to the already mentioned Whataburger habit I also had to cut out Dairy Queen Blizzards, since Dairy Queen is next door to Whataburger.  Early Covid lockdown when my daughter moved home from college I was hitting that drive through about 2 times weekly.  Haven't done that in a few months now.

[Jerry Callo 8698]

Damn, I was hoping my problem was with the kitchen pantry and not alcohol and sweets.

[ztejas 43411]

Saturday night as a burning desire an old timer with 13 years shared that he had received a call from his ex wife earlier that morning. His 26 year old son was dead. Drank himself into liver failure and kept drinking.

There weren't any tears in his eyes. He said he had already come to peace with it and knew it was coming. 

It was a somber reminder that you can't get sober for anyone else, but you don't have to drink and you can always get your ass to a meeting. 

AA and 12 step isn't for everyone and I would never preach that it is. Anything that can get you clean and keep you that way is something worth holding on to. But the courage that alcohol and drugs gave me pales in comparison to the strength and courage that I've seen in those rooms. I used to think it wasn't for me, but it's one of only two things in my life that makes more sense than anything else (the other is music) and I know that it will help me make sense of everything else. There's always someone with more time than you that has seen worse shit and come out sober despite it.

So as I sit here unemployed without a clue of what my future holds, still largely restless, irritable, and discontent, drinking coffee and smoking Marlboro lights, I am absolutely certain of two things:

1. I don't have to drink today, and 2. I will be at a meeting later.

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by ztejas

[Nicole44 22057]

33 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Saturday night as a burning desire an old timer with 13 years shared that he had received a call from his ex wife earlier that morning. His 26 year old son was dead. Drank himself into liver failure and kept drinking.

There weren't any tears in his eyes. He said he had already come to peace with it and knew it was coming. 

It was a somber reminder that you can't get sober for anyone else, but you don't have to drink and you can always get your ass to a meeting. 

AA and 12 step isn't for everyone and I would never preach that it is. Anything that can get you clean and keep you that way is something worth holding on to. But the courage that alcohol and drugs gave me pales in comparison to the strength and courage that I've seen in those rooms. I used to think it wasn't for me, but it's one of only two things in my life that makes more sense than anything else (the other is music) and I know that it will help me make sense of everything else. There's always someone with more time than you that has seen worse shit and come out sober despite it.

So as I sit here unemployed without a clue of what my future holds, still largely restless, irritable, and discontent, drinking coffee and smoking Marlboro lights, I am absolutely certain of two things:

1. I don't have to drink today, and 2. I will be at a meeting later.

 

So...your post inspired me. I bought a bicycle through Amazon and my brother and I put it together. As you know, my name is Nicole. I married a poster from this board. I had a miscarriage. We are divorced. I have posted before. I go to group all the time. Mine is AA. Animal crackers and Joel Olsteen types. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

So you got Surly in the divorce? Respek.

[Celery Man 20931]

Below is a novel venting frustration about trying to find a new job

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I'm fairly certain I've spoken at length here about the serenity prayer. It's my golden rule for sobriety. There's all the other stuff that is good and important, but if I can let go of things out of my control while identifying and taking action on the thins within my control, I'm usually in pretty good shape. MAN job searching is a fucking beating in this context. The lack of control, the lack of feedback, the way it makes you question your understanding of yourself and your abilities, the ominous tick tock of the clock while there is very little you can actually do, or at least not much that you can do differently. Exacerbated by the grossness of the things you need to do. Oh let me brand my linkedin profile and start "connecting" with recruiters, let me hit up the guy I had to lay off four years ago who is now my only connection at a company I'd like to work for. Maybe my sister knows someone at her previous company who can put their finger on the scale. Blech.

And then the really hard ego/emotional hit when you get a nibble and it's promising and exciting and then it falls through. I just had a phone screen with a company in Raleigh that would have been great. Really similar role to what I've done, doing stuff that I'm excited about (talk about emotionally draining - applying to staffing companies, or let me help drive agile transformation in your.... suite of HR reporting tools), I know I'd be great in the role. Phone screen Thursday afternoon went well, HR guy pencils in a time for the video interview with the hiring managers for yesterday afternoon, nothing back at all on Friday, I sent a followup before end of business hours saying basically "Hey really enjoyed talking with you, I wanted to follow up if we're still on for 2 on Monday - I'll keep the time open but no problem if we have to reschedule", and then nothing. Maybe it's still out there, maybe the hiring managers decided they didn't like me, who knows. But just... big glimmer of light and then dread and despair.

Then out of the blue today I just got another phone screen request for a job I applied to at least a month ago. It's number.... 6 out of 63 on the mostly complete list of applications I have out in the wild that I haven't gotten back the "thanks no thanks" e-mail on, or directly gone through a step and then not been selected to proceed. It's just a phone screen, I'm not going to get excited, but just the drip drip of rejection and self doubt and then little fits of excitement but with the harbinger of more despair to come.

And then the internal frustration. We're trying to relocate, I'm on board with that but I'm not the person with the most firm requirements on where it needs to be. I'd like nicer weather, I'd like nicer cost of living, but... I want to do stuff I'm excited about and I don't want to do stuff that i hate and most definitely I need to get a fucking job. Austin, Seattle, LA, NY, SF. Jobs jobs jobs jobs jobs. Virginia is on our list, and man most of the jobs are in DC (cross of cost of living as a bonus) and like... manage technical security compliance for technology programs supporting the department of homeland security, must have active top secret clearance. I guess we could do that, or I could take up an offer from my former coworker who is now at a popular video streaming service offering to help me take over his old position he is getting promoted out of, but San Diego is not on our list. I just applied for a job that is not only smack dab in my technical wheelhouse, but is also supporting music integration for a popular technology/stationary bicycle brand. I almost hope I don't get a call because if I do, it'll be an argument about location vs career.

And to be fair - how frustrating for my wife, who makes 25% of what I do did, has zero actual control over anything, and is working hard to bring me stuff that she likes that she thinks looks promising only to have me start going on about how I don't want to fucking do CSIRT.

Big rambly thing but man I would be excited to get out of this big mucky gray cloud of uncertainty and instead tackle some shit I can be excited about. Phone screen tomorrow is with a company not just in the Raleigh area (our best compromise for jobs balanced with what we both would like in a place) but actually in the outskirts near an area that we drove through looking at nice houses we could afford. Doing cool shit I can get behind. Slim odds still but wish me luck.

[ztejas 43411]

29 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Below is a novel venting frustration about trying to find a new job

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Control vs. surrender is a bitch. There's such a fine line to maintain between the two.

I mean our entire program is ultimately predicated on control. If we aren't engaging in the control of not drinking then everything else is moot. But to effectively maintain that control we have to surrender almost everything we have gotten used to trying to be in command over.

I know for me, I'm not in a position yet where I need to be calling the shots on the type of employment I take. I can set standards, and lean in certain directions, but whatever is out there is out there. Sometimes making a shitty decision, or the wrong decision, is better than not making any decision.

The only question I would ask is how is your step 3? I get miserable and restless pretty fucking quickly when my 1 2 3 starts to slip.

(and good luck on the job)

Edited July 28, 2020 by ztejas

[TwiceHorn 31438]

28 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Control vs. surrender is a bitch. There's such a fine line to maintain between the two.

Actually, there really isn't. What is difficult is discerning which things you can control and should, and which you cannot and should not attempt.  In the early going, it's surrender to everything.  Any effort to control anything in the early going is likely to be wrongheaded, creat frustration, and potentially disastrous.

28 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I mean our entire program is ultimately predicated on control. If we aren't engaging in the control of not drinking then everything else is moot. But to effectively maintain that control we have to surrender almost everything we have gotten used to trying to be in command over.

It's really not, though, grasshopper.  But yes, surrender to everything is key.  You can gradually resume control over those things that you should control and in the early going your sponsor and some of your peers are going to be the guide on what are those things and how and to what degree to exercise control over them.

The rest of the steps aid you in doing that.  Progressing along the steps is one thing you can control that you should control in the sense that you should do it, and do it promptly and thoroughly.  Defer to your sponsor on HOW to do it.  Don't control that, you'll fuck it up for sure.

For the first year or so, you really need to let life flow over you.  Wear it like a loose garment, as they say.  Accept that your inclinations and intuitions are probably wrong, but that is not a permanent state of affairs.

The phrase one step at a time applies to more than just the 12 steps.  All you need to contend with is that that is immediately ahead of you, nothing more.  Do that; do the next right thing and life will be simplified until you can handle more complexity.  And then you'll find that the answer most times is still to do the next right thing and nothing more.

On the job front, you may find that someone in your group has an opportunity for you.  Those can turn into really valuable opportunities both from a vocational and a recovery standpoint.  I was lucky to find lawdog mentors in recovery that helped me manage myself in what can be a difficult environment.

As mentioned earlier, I have been reading Dave Robicheaux novels.  The author, James Lee Burke, is a recovered alcoholic as is character Robicheaux.  There are some interesting passages that are recovery related and highly relatable, and others that may be unique to Burke's experience and -ism.  Robicheaux often says that the Serenity Prayer can be summarized as "fuck it."  I continue to ponder that one.

Edited July 28, 2020 by TwiceHorn