I'm An Alcoholic

[TwiceHorn 31534]

53 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Below is a novel venting frustration about trying to find a new job

-------------

I'm fairly certain I've spoken at length here about the serenity prayer. It's my golden rule for sobriety. There's all the other stuff that is good and important, but if I can let go of things out of my control while identifying and taking action on the thins within my control, I'm usually in pretty good shape. MAN job searching is a fucking beating in this context. The lack of control, the lack of feedback, the way it makes you question your understanding of yourself and your abilities, the ominous tick tock of the clock while there is very little you can actually do, or at least not much that you can do differently. Exacerbated by the grossness of the things you need to do. Oh let me brand my linkedin profile and start "connecting" with recruiters, let me hit up the guy I had to lay off four years ago who is now my only connection at a company I'd like to work for. Maybe my sister knows someone at her previous company who can put their finger on the scale. Blech.

And then the really hard ego/emotional hit when you get a nibble and it's promising and exciting and then it falls through. I just had a phone screen with a company in Raleigh that would have been great. Really similar role to what I've done, doing stuff that I'm excited about (talk about emotionally draining - applying to staffing companies, or let me help drive agile transformation in your.... suite of HR reporting tools), I know I'd be great in the role. Phone screen Thursday afternoon went well, HR guy pencils in a time for the video interview with the hiring managers for yesterday afternoon, nothing back at all on Friday, I sent a followup before end of business hours saying basically "Hey really enjoyed talking with you, I wanted to follow up if we're still on for 2 on Monday - I'll keep the time open but no problem if we have to reschedule", and then nothing. Maybe it's still out there, maybe the hiring managers decided they didn't like me, who knows. But just... big glimmer of light and then dread and despair.

Then out of the blue today I just got another phone screen request for a job I applied to at least a month ago. It's number.... 6 out of 63 on the mostly complete list of applications I have out in the wild that I haven't gotten back the "thanks no thanks" e-mail on, or directly gone through a step and then not been selected to proceed. It's just a phone screen, I'm not going to get excited, but just the drip drip of rejection and self doubt and then little fits of excitement but with the harbinger of more despair to come.

And then the internal frustration. We're trying to relocate, I'm on board with that but I'm not the person with the most firm requirements on where it needs to be. I'd like nicer weather, I'd like nicer cost of living, but... I want to do stuff I'm excited about and I don't want to do stuff that i hate and most definitely I need to get a fucking job. Austin, Seattle, LA, NY, SF. Jobs jobs jobs jobs jobs. Virginia is on our list, and man most of the jobs are in DC (cross of cost of living as a bonus) and like... manage technical security compliance for technology programs supporting the department of homeland security, must have active top secret clearance. I guess we could do that, or I could take up an offer from my former coworker who is now at a popular video streaming service offering to help me take over his old position he is getting promoted out of, but San Diego is not on our list. I just applied for a job that is not only smack dab in my technical wheelhouse, but is also supporting music integration for a popular technology/stationary bicycle brand. I almost hope I don't get a call because if I do, it'll be an argument about location vs career.

And to be fair - how frustrating for my wife, who makes 25% of what I do did, has zero actual control over anything, and is working hard to bring me stuff that she likes that she thinks looks promising only to have me start going on about how I don't want to fucking do CSIRT.

Big rambly thing but man I would be excited to get out of this big mucky gray cloud of uncertainty and instead tackle some shit I can be excited about. Phone screen tomorrow is with a company not just in the Raleigh area (our best compromise for jobs balanced with what we both would like in a place) but actually in the outskirts near an area that we drove through looking at nice houses we could afford. Doing cool shit I can get behind. Slim odds still but wish me luck.

You're doing fine, friend.  Life continues to frustrate and uncertainty continues to bother, but it won't send us spiraling off into the depths.  And that itself is a miracle for which to be grateful.

[Celery Man 20996]

26 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

For the first year or so, you really need to let life flow over you.  Wear it like a loose garment, as they say.  Accept that your inclinations and intuitions are probably wrong, but that is not a permanent state of affairs.

The phrase one step at a time applies to more than just the 12 steps.  All you need to contend with is that that is immediately ahead of you, nothing more.  Do that; do the next right thing and life will be simplified until you can handle more complexity.  And then you'll find that the answer most times is still to do the next right thing and nothing more.

Man, the first thing was definitely what I was doing that first year (really couple years out) and it was great. Almost dying, almost destroying my life, destroying the illusion, etc... it was really easy to both go with the flow but also take risks because who gives a shit, it's all house money. And man it was hard still dealing with really potent temptation but also it was easy getting such remarkable feedback on the changes I was making since I started at such a horrible place.

I feel like it's harder for me to surrender my cares to the God of the universal winds or whatever now, which ztejas raises accurately and you address as well. I'm in a solid habit of identifying shit I can do and shit I can't do, and maybe my ability to be positive has masked an underlying decay in how much I'm able to be content with some degree of powerlessness over impending consequences.

Speaking of the universal winds, my phone just rang and i got a call set up with the hiring manager for a different job I was really excited about. Cool cool cool cool cool. Thanks for the positive vibrations fellas.

[BearSchlong 8111]

My sponsor is oh so fond of telling me that God's in control whether I acknowledge it or not.  Sending good vibes your way Celery Man.  May God bless you with a life beyond your wildest dreams.

[TwiceHorn 31534]

Shit has a habit of working out when you let it.

[ztejas 43533]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's really not, though, grasshopper.  But yes, surrender to everything is key.  You can gradually resume control over those things that you should control and in the early going your sponsor and some of your peers are going to be the guide on what are those things and how and to what degree to exercise control over them.

The rest of the steps aid you in doing that.  Progressing along the steps is one thing you can control that you should control in the sense that you should do it, and do it promptly and thoroughly.  Defer to your sponsor on HOW to do it.  Don't control that, you'll fuck it up for sure.

For the first year or so, you really need to let life flow over you.  Wear it like a loose garment, as they say.  Accept that your inclinations and intuitions are probably wrong, but that is not a permanent state of affairs.

I think we are talking past each other. I mean control in so far as doing the little things that matter. Personal accountability and self-care and all that. Bigger picture I absolutely subscribe to life flowing over me (or I'm trying to).

The fine line I'm talking about might be more personal. If I surrender in the wrong ways I become nihilistic, apathetic, depressed and suicidal in that order. It's thus very important for me to avoid complete inaction - I need to fill my day with positive actions that contribute to me getting my life back on track. I'm trying to rediscover purpose and figure out what matters to me. There are certain things I need to care about more, because at my bottom I didn't give a shit about anything. 

[Reagan1k 3024]

Surrender is not the opposite of inaction for me.  Quite different things as I understand my program.  

Surrender frees me to act without obsession over outcomes.  It enables me to take the next right step without fear (or with less fear), and not presuppose the outcome.

By surrendering, I am taking my "feelings" out of the mix; removing doubt and worry from the equation.  The adage of acting our way into right thinking vs. thinking our way into right action works through this.

By taking right actions without fear over the outcome (through surrender of that which I can't control) I get to divorce myself from the results business.

If in the morning I simply say to my higher power...."Whatever!?!" and at night say "Oh well" - I'm unchained from the regret, remorse, and resentments to which I naturally default.

I guess the long and short of it is that surrender inspires action......right action if I'm spiritually fit and eliminates doubt, worry, and the propensity to act outside of my values to achieve a result I want. 

[Reagan1k 3024]

17 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Surrender is not the opposite of inaction for me. 

Edit - opposite of action

[ztejas 43533]

46 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Surrender is not the opposite of inaction for me.  Quite different things as I understand my program.  

Surrender frees me to act without obsession over outcomes.  It enables me to take the next right step without fear (or with less fear), and not presuppose the outcome.

By surrendering, I am taking my "feelings" out of the mix; removing doubt and worry from the equation.  The adage of acting our way into right thinking vs. thinking our way into right action works through this.

By taking right actions without fear over the outcome (through surrender of that which I can't control) I get to divorce myself from the results business.

If in the morning I simply say to my higher power...."Whatever!?!" and at night say "Oh well" - I'm unchained from the regret, remorse, and resentments to which I naturally default.

I guess the long and short of it is that surrender inspires action......right action if I'm spiritually fit and eliminates doubt, worry, and the propensity to act outside of my values to achieve a result I want. 

Thanks. I'm going to steal this.

(And yeah I knew what you were trying to say 😉 - part of my surrender is not correcting everything I see)

Edited July 29, 2020 by ztejas

[BearSchlong 8111]

Reagan drops some knowledge. . .

So during COVID i left a stable, predictable, lucrative job at a household name company that I hated.  With the help of my sponsor lineage, of course.  Did wonders as far as giving up resentments - but credit where credit's due, that job forced me into an almost daily exercise of walking from resentment into gratitude and learning acceptance.  I was powerless.  I could not be honest with my clients because it would reflect negatively on my firm, i.e. "we're working on it" was a probable lie because I had no reassurance that the department in charge of such things was actually doing anything. To tell them "look, they took my power away, I can't do shit, you'll either have to live with it or move on to another provider" wasn't something that spilled readily from my lips.  Nevertheless, it was time for me to move on. (another indicator - my boss at that company resigned 24 hours after I did)

Joined a much smaller firm and am under a microscope - in my 4th week now, multiple daily calls with my CRO and EVP of Sales.  Was hired because of my expertise and proven work product - and because I've demonstrated commitment for the long haul - it's starting to come together but to some extent I swapped resentment for fear.  But the thing that's different is that the fear doesn't overcome me mainly because of the concepts Twice, Ztejas, and Reagan just outlined.  Smaller firm is Niche, either we're an awesome solution or we're irrelevant - and i'm fine with that truth and sharing it with clients.

The level of honesty and accountability between professionals is inspiring.

Courage through faith is what's carrying me now.

Edited July 30, 2020 by BearSchlong

[TwiceHorn 31534]

7 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Reagan drops some knowledge. . .

So during COVID i left a stable, predictable, lucrative job at a household name company that I hated.  With the help of my sponsor lineage, of course.  Did wonders as far as giving up resentments - but credit where credit's due, that job forced me into an almost daily exercise of walking from resentment into gratitude and learning acceptance.  I was powerless.  I could not be honest with my clients because it would reflect negatively on my firm, i.e. "we're working on it" was a probable lie because I had no reassurance that the department in charge of such things was actually doing anything. To tell them "look, they took my power away, I can't do shit, you'll either have to live with it or move on to another provider" wasn't something that spilled readily from my lips.  Nevertheless, it was time for me to move on. (another indicator - my boss at that company resigned 24 hours after I did)

Joined a much smaller firm and am under a microscope - in my 4th week now, multiple daily calls with my CRO and EVP of Sales.  Was hired because of my expertise and proven work product - and because I've demonstrated commitment for the long haul - it's starting to come together but to some extent I swapped resentment for fear.  But the thing that's different is that the fear doesn't overcome me mainly because of the concepts Twice, Ztejas, and Reagan just outlined.  Smaller firm is Niche, either we're an awesome solution or we're irrelevant - and i'm fine with that truth and sharing it with clients.

The level of honesty and accountability between professionals is inspiring.

Courage through faith is what's carrying me now.

Fear is a biggie for me.  But, as reagan notes, it's tied to outcomes/results, and I am not in that business anymore.  But I need to constantly remind myself of that.

[BearSchlong 8111]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Fear is a biggie for me.  But, as reagan notes, it's tied to outcomes/results, and I am not in that business anymore.  But I need to constantly remind myself of that.

The thing that gives me courage is knowing that it's NOT ABOUT ME, I'm simply paid to generate good mutually beneficial projects.  That dissolves the fear.  All I have to do is take action.

[TwiceHorn 31534]

On 7/28/2020 at 3:33 PM, ztejas said:

I think we are talking past each other. I mean control in so far as doing the little things that matter. Personal accountability and self-care and all that. Bigger picture I absolutely subscribe to life flowing over me (or I'm trying to).

The fine line I'm talking about might be more personal. If I surrender in the wrong ways I become nihilistic, apathetic, depressed and suicidal in that order. It's thus very important for me to avoid complete inaction - I need to fill my day with positive actions that contribute to me getting my life back on track. I'm trying to rediscover purpose and figure out what matters to me. There are certain things I need to care about more, because at my bottom I didn't give a shit about anything. 

Probably so, but elaborating on the concepts doesn't hurt.

[jimmyjazz 46118]

Need a little advice:  my 28 YO stepdaughter has long suffered from a variety of issues, some physical, some social, some financial, some family (she the single parent of a 6 YO son), and some mental.  It is the inexpert opinion of both my wife and myself that she is probably bipolar, or at least suffers from something that manifests in a similar manner.  In the past couple of years, she has taken to drinking, and at this point it appears to be a problem. 

Between the drinking and the extreme mood changes, it is clear she needs help.  We are concerned that simply sending her to a psychiatrist will lead to what might be an accurate diagnosis, but it won't assess the addiction or other issues.  I have little doubt medication will help, but this is a very layered problem. 

Would AA or Al-Anon, etc. be able to direct her to psychiatrists who assess the bigger picture?  I am sure some kind of joint therapy will be necessary, too, but it just doesn't seem realistic to simply address mental illness when addiction and other concerns are present.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on the matter.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

IMHO that is not what AA is designed to do...Sounds like a dual-diagnosis type issue and those are very thorny and straddle medicine, psychiatry and recovery. I'd seek physicians with expertise in dual-diagnoses / addiction. 

[jimmyjazz 46118]

Any tips on how to find MDs (psych or other) in the Austin area who have expertise in both sides of the problem?  I realize Google is my friend, but I'm not sure I would be very good at wading through the results.  This is new territory.

[BearSchlong 8111]

@jimmyjazz I agree with @MaybeACoordinator .  I'd PM @Augustus as he might have some names from his time in Austin and proximity to the recovery business.

Does your stepdaughter want help?  What's her take on the matter?  Does she acknowledge a problem?  Has she been hospitalized before due to psych issues? What are the consequences of her drinking?  To what does she attribute her problems?

My experience - in 1996 my wife (she was an LPC who thought AA was a crock of shite) and her practice partner suggested I see a Psychiatrist for apparent ADD.  That started me on the Adderall railroad til 2004, when I had heart problems, attempted suicide, was in a psych hospital for a week, and was then treated by the Psych department head at UTHSC in SATX.  Ah, turns out I was Bipolar, not ADD.  Lithium and Cymbalta til 2009, when career/marriage unraveled.

In Jan 2011 at 38 yrs old I finally admitted I was just a garden variety drunk and was separated from alcohol and went to AA.  Fast forward to 2020 and my current Psychiatrist laughs at my past diagnoses.  I'm on a mild antidepressant but she can't imagine that anyone ever diagnosed me as bipolar - but that's what my alcoholism looked like.  The reason I keep seeing her is for an objective perspective on my mental health.  The other thing is that I am honest with her, and my goal is to be medication free in the near future.

My personal journey started with professional help and ended up with a spiritual solution.  I joke that I lived the Dupont Lifestyle - dupont's motto was "Better living through chemistry".

But like all the other alcoholics I know, I had to figure out the truth about myself before progress could occur.

 

[BearSchlong 8111]

Oh, and my dummy FIL went to Florida a few weeks ago, then hung out at the "restaurant and bar" (Bar) with a local MD who then got covid.  Guess who has a fever, cough, body aches, headache now?  I saw him for 3 minutes week ago yesterday (Friday).  FIL got it last Saturday and has been suffering, and now I've got it.

Hoping I didn't give it to my own elderly dad when I dropped by his house this past week to set him up with Zoom so he could attend to AA service work business.

Going to get tested in 20 minutes.

In related news (Serenity Now!, page 67 of the big book) this week I gave money to Joe Biden and will never vote for another Republican as long as I live.  Apologies for the injection of outside issues.

Since I'm quarantined, I'm mainly making Northland Zoom meetings - does anyone have some suggestions for online meetings?  Other groups?  I love AA tourism.

[TwiceHorn 31534]

19 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

Any tips on how to find MDs (psych or other) in the Austin area who have expertise in both sides of the problem?  I realize Google is my friend, but I'm not sure I would be very good at wading through the results.  This is new territory.

Question, relating to what Bear said, prefaced with some background. 

Dual diagnosis is fairly common, as bipolar folks (and others with "issues") are susceptible to self-medication.  By the same token, however, addiction is a kind of mixture of basically all the psychoses at subclinical levels:  depression, bipolar, OCD, maybe even a little schizoaffective disorder at times.  An active alcoholic can be legitimately (as in clearly meets the professionally evaluated criteria of DSM) with any or all of these.  But any decent mental health pro will tell you diagnosing an active addict is a fool's errand.

Once a person is abstinent from alcohol or other drugs, many of those disorders disappear, especially if abstinence is combined with a program of recovery.

So the question is, are you pretty sure the drinking (and any drugging) is a fairly recent development, or could it have been at a dull roar the whole time?  Fairly frequently, family is fooled into thinking that a substance problem is a new development when it has been an issue for quite some time, but as the substance abuser begins to unravel, it becomes more obvious.

It's a problem that we encounter in AA with some frequency, but the general advice is, get sober first, see what problems, if any, remain. then see a mental health professional.  A pretty fair majority of mental health pros seem to concur with this advice in that getting the substance abuse "under control" is the first priority and everything else follows.

NB.  There is, apparently, a school of thought within some AA "groups" or "members" that everything comes back to alcohol and psych meds are just another addiction.  I have never actually witnessed that in going on 23 years of sobriety, but I understand that it exists.  That's bad juju, imo.

As far as MDs go, addiction specialist first priority.  They may not be experts on bipolar or whatever other malady may be in play, but they won't "pooh pooh" the addiction aspect, which is, unfortunately, the medical response much of the time.  Largely because they are generally helpless to treat with medication.  Going back to the original premise, treatment of bipolar or depression while the patient is actively addicted is a waste of time and  counterproductive and probably dangerous.

Edited August 1, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[ztejas 43533]

Yeah. In order to address the mental health properly she will have to get clean. I'm doing the same shit right now.

And to Twice Horn's point, it may be caused by alcohol it may not. It can go in both directions and there could be multiple issues with different symptoms and underlying causes.

For example, for me, after about a month clean and starting on Zoloft again my depression went straight out the fucking window. It still creeps up at times but it's truly night and day.

My anxiety on the other hand? Hah. That's maybe the biggest reason I was an alcoholic/addict in the first place (still am but I'm not using right now) - and in that vein my use was definitely a symptom. It doesn't just "go away" because I stop drinking. It thinks that effort is cute on my part but it's still waiting for me when I get up to try and kick my ass.

Now, will that anxiety get better the longer I stay clean purely as a result of quitting the substance? Probably. But it won't just fix itself if I don't address it and put the work in every day. But to figure out how to address it and where it comes from I had to get clean.

 It sounds like she has a lot to unpack. Whether that's alcoholism, bipolar disorder, ADD, run of the mill depression etc. the fact remains that she will need to quit the booze before she can effectively address any of it.

And I 2nd Twice on seeking addiction treatment medically before mental health. No addiction specialist worth their salt is going to ignore mental health issues. A non-addiciton psych could very well ignore addiction issues and blame it on mental health factors (especially if she's not forthcoming about her using habits - which I doubt she would be).

[TwiceHorn 31534]

An addendum to the foregoing.  Dual diagnosis is no more "thorny" than addiction alone, or another mental health issue, alone.

Addiction is always a handful.  So are the other things.

One of the problems this presents is that, while no one wants to admit to themselves or anyone else that they have a mental health condition, that goes double or triple for being an addict.

Many addicts use other psychiatric diagnoses as a crutch to avoid the difficulties of recovery.  The addict (and family and familiars) are perfectly willing to (eventually) admit that the addict is depressed, or bipolar, or any damn thing other than an addict.  It's pretty common to see people come into AA after years of chasing therapy and medication solutions for maladies other than addiction.  See BearSchlong, above.

Addicts tend to suffer from what we call "terminal uniqueness."  The feeling that their condition is different from the other drunks and druggies.  Newsflash, it's not.  Terminal uniqueness has a corollary and that is "I don't need AA" or "I don't need to stop drinking/drugging" because my problems are different from everyone else's and if I could just kick this depression, or find the right job, or get to the right city or  . . . .  Other mental health issues tend not to be terminal (which is not to minimize them).  Addiction is terminal.

So getting lost in other diagnoses and losing sight of the real problem is very easy to do.  So if addiction is suspected, it's probably there (addicts are very skilled at hiding it, until they aren't), and it needs to be the first treatment priority until it is definitively ruled out.

Edited August 1, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31534]

9 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Yeah. In order to address the mental health properly she will have to get clean. I'm doing the same shit right now.

And to Twice Horn's point, it may be caused by alcohol it may not. It can go in both directions and there could be multiple issues with different symptoms and underlying causes.

For example, for me, after about a month clean and starting on Zoloft again my depression went straight out the fucking window. It still creeps up at times but it's truly night and day.

My anxiety on the other hand? Hah. That's maybe the biggest reason I was an alcoholic/addict in the first place (still am but I'm not using right now) - and in that vein my use was definitely a symptom. It doesn't just "go away" because I stop drinking. It thinks that effort is cute on my part but it's still waiting for me when I get up to try and kick my ass.

Now, will that anxiety get better the longer I stay clean purely as a result of quitting the substance? Probably. But it won't just fix itself if I don't address it and put the work in every day. But to figure out how to address it and where it comes from I had to get clean.

 It sounds like she has a lot to unpack. Whether that's alcoholism, bipolar disorder, ADD, run of the mill depression etc. the fact remains that she will need to quit the booze before she can effectively address any of it.

And I 2nd Twice on seeking addiction treatment medically before mental health. No addiction specialist worth their salt is going to ignore mental health issues. A non-addiciton psych could very well ignore addiction issues and blame it on mental health factors (especially if she's not forthcoming about her using habits - which I doubt she would be).

From my observations, anxiety responds best to therapy.  The usual medications (benzos) are another route straight into addiction.

Fear, though, is common to addicts (our lives are shot through with it) and working the steps helps with that.  Once you get out of the results business, as we say, fear of those results (real and imagined) begins to subside.  But if your anxiety persists, cognitive behavioral therapy has been the answer for most of the folks I know.

[ztejas 43533]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

From my observations, anxiety responds best to therapy.  The usual medications (benzos) are another route straight into addiction.

Fear, though, is common to addicts (our lives are shot through with it) and working the steps helps with that.  Once you get out of the results business, as we say, fear of those results (real and imagined) begins to subside.  But if your anxiety persists, cognitive behavioral therapy has been the answer for most of the folks I know.

Yep. Had an epiphany in rehab about how I had been afraid of so much my entire life. I had been misdiagnosing a lot of my fears as anxiety.

Mine is unfortunately a little more complicated than that, though. It's very deep seated and physiological so it requires I focus on a lot of little things during each day in addition to bigger picture stuff like working the steps and therapy (speaking of, I need to find a therapist).

[jimmyjazz 46118]

Thanks for all the information.  Frankly, it's overwhelming.  We'll just have to dig in.

It is hard for me to imagine her quitting the drink before addressing mental health concerns, but I'm completely unqualified to make that call.  It's just a feeling.  And, it sounds like I'm mistaken.

I don't think she's been drinking for more than a few years.  To my knowledge, she doesn't (nor has ever) drugged beyond some occasional pot.  She's pretty much a homebody.

She knows she has problems and wants them fixed, but it will definitely take some work to get her on the path to recovery.

[NAVY 6747]

Despite a pandemic, the wife getting laid off, taking on a second job and a bunch of contract work... 7 months today.

Hellz yeah!  I feel fucking great. 

I lurked this thread for a long time. If I can do it, you lurkers can too.

Keep the faith homies

Edited August 1, 2020 by NAVY
math

[TwiceHorn 31534]

1 hour ago, jimmyjazz said:

Thanks for all the information.  Frankly, it's overwhelming.  We'll just have to dig in.

It is hard for me to imagine her quitting the drink before addressing mental health concerns, but I'm completely unqualified to make that call.  It's just a feeling.  And, it sounds like I'm mistaken.

I don't think she's been drinking for more than a few years.  To my knowledge, she doesn't (nor has ever) drugged beyond some occasional pot.  She's pretty much a homebody.

She knows she has problems and wants them fixed, but it will definitely take some work to get her on the path to recovery.

Could well be true, don't mean to question you, just to point out some pitfalls in the process.

 

[BearSchlong 8111]

39 minutes ago, NAVY said:

Despite a pandemic, the wife getting laid off, taking on a second job and a bunch of contract work... 7 months today.

Hellz yeah!  I feel fucking great. 

I lurked this thread for a long time. If I can do it, you lurkers can too.

Keep the faith homies

That is wonderful!! Congratulations.

[Augustus 3061]

On 7/31/2020 at 9:38 AM, jimmyjazz said:

Need a little advice:  my 28 YO stepdaughter has long suffered from a variety of issues, some physical, some social, some financial, some family (she the single parent of a 6 YO son), and some mental.  It is the inexpert opinion of both my wife and myself that she is probably bipolar, or at least suffers from something that manifests in a similar manner.  In the past couple of years, she has taken to drinking, and at this point it appears to be a problem. 

Between the drinking and the extreme mood changes, it is clear she needs help.  We are concerned that simply sending her to a psychiatrist will lead to what might be an accurate diagnosis, but it won't assess the addiction or other issues.  I have little doubt medication will help, but this is a very layered problem. 

Would AA or Al-Anon, etc. be able to direct her to psychiatrists who assess the bigger picture?  I am sure some kind of joint therapy will be necessary, too, but it just doesn't seem realistic to simply address mental illness when addiction and other concerns are present.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on the matter.

I don't have any psychiatrist recommendations, but I will note that any competent mental health professional will address the substance abuse issues before getting into assessments for underlying mental health issues.  Active substance abuse mimics and obfuscates other disorders, making a reliable diagnosis impossible.

The place for her to start is in a substance abuse treatment facility so that she's quarantined from alcohol, can be thoroughly detoxed and begin the process of assessment for other issues, which can then be addressed in treatment and continued on an outpatient basis.

If she refuses, intervention is the only other option.  Let me know if you need/want intervention and I'll help you.

[Deft Horizon 8]

After following this thread for the past three/four websites, I recently went through a treatment facility. It's amazing what a week or two of detox and all the other benefits will do. People that came in with that thousand yard stare shuffling around and talking to themselves seemed like relatively normal alcoholics/addicts after a short time. I'd start there and then proceed with further psych treatment if the symptoms persist. 

[BearSchlong 8111]

Welcome.  How's it going?

[Deft Horizon 8]

So far so good. I've got a temporary sponsor but not locally. What do you guys recommend for finding good meetings on zoom? 

[Clintonaldo 2576]

I really love and admire the honesty and humanity in this thread. That’s all I got. 

[TexArcher 38051]

42 minutes ago, Deft Horizon said:

So far so good. I've got a temporary sponsor but not locally. What do you guys recommend for finding good meetings on zoom? 

If you're in the Austin area, google "Hill Country Intergroup."  That's a consolidated listing of pretty much every AA chapter's schedule and most of them have converted to Zoom meetings for the time being.

If you're anywhere else, google your city and AA and I'm sure you'll find plenty of groups doing likewise.  

And I'll give the same advice I do about finding real life meetings: try a few.  Different groups take on different dynamics.  It's perfectly okay to shop around until you find one that feels like a good fit.

Edited August 2, 2020 by TexArcher

[BearSchlong 8111]

So far so good. I've got a temporary sponsor but not locally. What do you guys recommend for finding good meetings on zoom? 

The beautiful thing is that with Google you can be in a zoom meeting literally any hour in the day, all over the world.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

On 8/1/2020 at 9:42 AM, BearSchlong said:

this week I gave money to Joe Biden and will never vote for another Republican as long as I live. 

Just in case anyone else was foolish enough to think "at least there's one thread left on Surly where people don't feel the need to fly the colors."

I guess I shouldn't be irritated though, you said "apologies" immediately afterwards.

[BearSchlong 8111]

Thanks for the indulgence. I'm not typically political, at least online.

 

Anger driven by fear that I've inadvertantly exposed my elderly dad with a gazillion underlying conditions to the covid. If he gets it he's toast.

 

 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

On 8/1/2020 at 12:46 PM, NAVY said:

Despite a pandemic, the wife getting laid off, taking on a second job and a bunch of contract work... 7 months today.

Hellz yeah!  I feel fucking great. 

I lurked this thread for a long time. If I can do it, you lurkers can too.

Keep the faith homies

That's fantastic. I'm happy for you.

[Clintonaldo 2576]

A co worker walked into the office the morning and said he needed help and will be leaving this afternoon for a 30 day rehab. I am super proud of him. I knew the guy had an issue when he drank 6 beers in 25 minutes at the river one day. I got him into working out for a few weeks and I would pick him up every morning and he would smell like beer. He had been real distant to everyone this year at work and I could tell something has been bothering him.  His boss is a good friend to me and called me to tell me and was pissed about missing work but thanks to this thread I was able to let his boss know how brave this is and it should be celebrated. 

 

Surly is good for something after all!

[Celery Man 20996]

That's awesome. I hope it takes - if he's productive enough now that his boss is/was pissed about him missing work, he could potentially surprise people with how effective he is when he isn't drowning in a pit of despair and sorrow. And constantly hungover or drunk, etc.

[BearSchlong 8111]

Glad to hear it.

Covid fucking sucks and it has taught me about acceptance, a microcosm for all the times that I live by self propulsion. When I stopped fighting and accepted its gonna take a few weeks to recover then I found serenity.

[TwiceHorn 31534]

5 hours ago, Clintonaldo said:

A co worker walked into the office the morning and said he needed help and will be leaving this afternoon for a 30 day rehab. I am super proud of him. I knew the guy had an issue when he drank 6 beers in 25 minutes at the river one day. I got him into working out for a few weeks and I would pick him up every morning and he would smell like beer. He had been real distant to everyone this year at work and I could tell something has been bothering him.  His boss is a good friend to me and called me to tell me and was pissed about missing work but thanks to this thread I was able to let his boss know how brave this is and it should be celebrated. 

 

Surly is good for something after all!

Pretty good sign if the guy is telling people in advance that he is doing this of his own volition and has the right motivation for it to stick sooner rather than later.

[Clintonaldo 2576]

Pretty good sign if the guy is telling people in advance that he is doing this of his own volition and has the right motivation for it to stick sooner rather than later.

Totally agree. I said he should be commended for doing this now instead of after he kills someone in a company vehicle. I really wish I could send him a text but I am not supposed to know.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

6 hours ago, Clintonaldo said:

I knew the guy had an issue when he drank 6 beers in 25 minutes at the river one day.

back in the day my issue with that would have been "why aren't there seven beers in a six pack?"

[Charles DeMar 221]

Two years on the 10th, folks. 

 

Happy to be sober today.  Happy to not have a horrible hangover this morning.  Happy that, in this time where my work is crazy busy, I am on top of it.  My wife still has a little PTSD from today's date as that was when she busted me out of a less than acceptable sober living facility, so she is sort of in the dumps (big time rehasher/resentment gal), but, I'm doing me and can't control her.  I can continue to serve her and my kids today and keep on keepin' on.

 

I've learned so much about myself in two years and I can honestly say I don't despise looking in the mirror anymore.

 

Thanks to all y'all for your posts, support, and knowledge.

 

CDM

[Reagan1k 3024]

Congrats -

Also, thanks for the reminder about our family members whom we punished.

We joke a lot among ourselves about the old life.  In meetings and in just talking to other drunks its common to talk about wrecking cars or doing absurd shit and everyone laughs.

I tend to be bad about that and have to be careful not to take a cavalier attitude back to my family because it isn't funny to them most of the time.  Their experience is different than ours with regard to our drunken state and recovery.

Good for you on the milestone and for being aware of your wife's perception while you celebrate your sobriety. 

I needed that reminder today.

 

 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

18 hours ago, Charles DeMar said:

Two years on the 10th, folks. 

 

Happy to be sober today.  Happy to not have a horrible hangover this morning.  Happy that, in this time where my work is crazy busy, I am on top of it.  My wife still has a little PTSD from today's date as that was when she busted me out of a less than acceptable sober living facility, so she is sort of in the dumps (big time rehasher/resentment gal), but, I'm doing me and can't control her.  I can continue to serve her and my kids today and keep on keepin' on.

 

I've learned so much about myself in two years and I can honestly say I don't despise looking in the mirror anymore.

 

Thanks to all y'all for your posts, support, and knowledge.

 

CDM

Quoted for greatness.

[ztejas 43533]

On 7/21/2020 at 6:52 PM, ztejas said:

I was never a big smoker and didn't start at a young age so I'm not going to start smoking half a pack a day but again, optimally I wouldn't smoke at all.

Oops

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

43 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Oops

give it time, I smoked regularly until I was 26-27 and then quit and never went back, and I was not 26-27 recently.

[ztejas 43533]

8 minutes ago, SwanderedTalent said:

give it time, I smoked regularly until I was 26-27 and then quit and never went back, and I was not 26-27 recently.

Yeah I'm not like, concerned about it. Was going through some past pages of the thread and it made me chuckle. To be fair I did switch to something lighter since making that comment.

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

Watching Catastrophe with my wife.  Rob's relapse almost had me in tears :(

[BearSchlong 8111]

Hi y'all.

Been through the wringer with Covid for the past 2 weeks and it's been awful.  Unable to work, which has thrown me into all kinds of fear and anxiety.  I'm coming back to work today, but admittedly at about 50% capability, my company's Covid PTO benefit expired so I basically have to just suck it up and see what I can get accomplished.

Acceptance, patience, and tolerance has to be my code otherwise I'll never make it.  Total reliance on the steps and the things I learned in AA about the disease of alcoholism is where I'm at today.  Think I'll attend some online zoom meetings today as well.