I'm An Alcoholic

[BearSchlong 8115]

Camelot to Armageddon. . .so true.

[pch 1261]

Just now, BearSchlong said:

Camelot to Armageddon. . .so true.

Penthouse to outhouse also 🙂

 

[Kennythetiger 9475]

22 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/25/entertainment/dax-shepard-addiction-opioid-trnd/index.html

 

The 12 and 12 for Tradition 1 states that unity is the most important characteristic in the hive of A.A.

What is the most important for the individual, brutal honesty?

Gratitude, for me. 

[BearSchlong 8115]

I can't find the post but earlier this year I changed home groups due to a certain individual taking the group hostage, which only escalated during the early Covid days.

Huge resentment.  Friday one of the old timers who is on my short list of contingent sponsors sort of called me out for not going to that group and working with newcomers.  I had heard that things had changed over there and so I took that message to heart.

Yesterday I attended that group (the one which got me sober, and at which I've picked up 9 anniversary chips) for the first time in at least 8 months and it was wonderful, got to talk to lots of new guys.

The resentment I couldn't shake?  Yeah that guys going to prison for a long time, thankfully. 

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by BearSchlong

[ztejas 43544]

29 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

The resentment I couldn't shake?  Yeah that guys going to prison for a long time, thankfully. 

Funny how things work out when we just give up control and step away.

[BearSchlong 8115]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Funny how things work out when we just give up control and step away.

Part of me thinks in hindsight that the group conscious should have met and asked him to leave.

The entire recovery community here got a lesson on what to do when confronted with a sociopath.

[Celery Man 21002]

Funny thing I... knew all the parts of individually but just connected with me about my new job today - the product I'm working on is a set of analytics tools for the industrial production of ethanol. Which of course is denatured, but otherwise it's just grain alcohol.

[BearSchlong 8115]

I've got a friend who has been trying to get sober for well over 20 years.  One of the nicest people I've ever met, but underneath an oversized personality I could sense real torment.  Haven't seen him in probably a year.

Per a mutual buddy that ran into him the other day,  he is now identifying as a woman, growing boobs, etc.  Said he seemed happier than ever.

The thought occurred to me that for some people getting honest and going to any lengths to achieve sobriety can be that dramatic.

 

[TwiceHorn 31540]

On 9/26/2020 at 12:25 AM, JohnnyRage said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/25/entertainment/dax-shepard-addiction-opioid-trnd/index.html

 

The 12 and 12 for Tradition 1 states that unity is the most important characteristic in the hive of A.A.

What is the most important for the individual, brutal honesty?

I saw something else, apparently prior to the relapse about his daughters and NA beer.  This is not the article I saw but the substance is similar. https://www.celebretainment.com/celebrities/kristen-bell-and-dax-shepards-daughters-drink-non-alcoholic-beer/article_ba176967-c95f-578e-8698-8e59750d3679.html

As has been noted several times on this thread, NA beer still contains alcohol and while it's not enough to get you fucked up without consuming vast quantities, it may be enough to fire up those craving pathways.

Also, I question the mentality that leads one to drink NA beer at all.  Some call it "romancing the drink."  I don't know if that's a thing or not, but not anything I have been willing to take a chance on.

Somewhat in his defense, the relapse is based on vicodin prescribed as a result of a motorcycle wreck.  That is obviously an easy trap for anyone to fall into, but it is a cautionary tale about recovering/ed people and the use of narcotics, no matter how legitimate.

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[Jerry Callo 8732]

I buy beer, wine, and liquor for the wife.  I make her margaritas, poor her beers into ice cold pint glasses, etc.  I'll have people to the house for driveway happy hour or meet friends at local brewpubs.  None of that bothers me in the slightest.  You couldn't convince me to drink an NA beer, though.

My dad used to drink "near beer" when he'd stop drinking.  Unfortunately, he never actually stopped drinking.

[TwiceHorn 31540]

2 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

I buy beer, wine, and liquor for the wife.  I make her margaritas, poor her beers into ice cold pint glasses, etc.  I'll have people to the house for driveway happy hour or meet friends at local brewpubs.  None of that bothers me in the slightest.  You couldn't convince me to drink an NA beer, though.

My dad used to drink "near beer" when he'd stop drinking.  Unfortunately, he never actually stopped drinking.

100% with you.

[BearSchlong 8115]

57 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

I buy beer, wine, and liquor for the wife.  I make her margaritas, poor her beers into ice cold pint glasses, etc.  I'll have people to the house for driveway happy hour or meet friends at local brewpubs.  None of that bothers me in the slightest.  You couldn't convince me to drink an NA beer, though.

My dad used to drink "near beer" when he'd stop drinking.  Unfortunately, he never actually stopped drinking.

I go to Spec's with my wife all the time.  My usual thought when I walk in there is that people who drink for the taste must be exhausted with such a diverse selection from which to choose.

Edited October 1, 2020 by BearSchlong

[Reagan1k 3024]

The desire to drink or even the reminiscing thought of a drink hasn’t crossed my mind in years.  I buy the stuff for others frequently and often find myself as “bartender” when we entertain at home.

However, I am vigilant to keep any alcohol off of my lips.   A near-beer scares me to death.  I’d rather be thirsty.  I only make anything that looks like a cocktail at home when I mix it myself and am careful to watch my glass to make sure there is no mixup.  At any restaurant or bar, I won’t order anything even resembling a mixed drink.  Water or tea only.  I’m not willing to risk having a tonic and lime become “leaded” by accident.

I have no idea if a near-beer or accidental sip or two of a gin and tonic would trigger the cravings or not, and I’m certainly not willing to risk my life to find out. 

[ztejas 43544]

I'm in early recovery but I can't imagine making a drink for someone. That just seems spiritually wrong to me for where I'm at in my program. Down the line after more of the phenomenon has lifted? Sure. I'm not against other people drinking if they want to. 

I still don't think I'd offer to make someone a cocktail, though. I think that would bug me from an integrity/self honesty perspective.

Taking an "accidental" sip? That's an interesting question. I think I would either be totally fine or I'd be ruined in the moment - instantly. I might need to rip the bandaid off so to speak. But I know that I could recover. I've gone out and successfully come back in pretty recently.

[ztejas 43544]

1 hour ago, BurntEyes said:

Hubris. Couple of items, purely my take on the world.

You may never be at a place where you are okay being around booze. Everyone is different, and that's okay. Not better or worse. I'll let others working the steps speak more to that issue.

I will say, with certainty, that the assumption that if you fall off you can get right back on because you've done it before is a very slippery slope.

I had quit many times. Sometimes longer that a year. Then I ended up in a strange place where I no longer saw a need to quit. I was in control. It wasn't an issue. My drinking didn't effect anyone but me, and besides, I could quit at anytime. I'd done it before, I just didn't want or need to. I didn't see it, and thought I was in control, truly.

I wasn't, .28, and the booze didn't kill me, the fall from being so drunk did. So it did kill me didn't it, the booze. I had it under control, just got unlucky right? No. I didn't get unlucky. I just lost all control, metaphorically and literally.

I've got it again, control over a tiny little slice, but I can never touch the 3rd rail again. I won't be as "lucky" next time. All I need is my direction, I've let go of most control. I still have to work on it, nearly daily. My little slice. It's all I need. The rest doesn't matter. I make my bed, work out, cook, eat right, ride my motorcycle, work on my land, do my job, pay my bills, travel when I can, try to be kind, try to be better every day, dream my dreams, plan for the near future, stay in close touch with loved ones/family/friends. 

It's all the control I need, the rest doesn't matter, at all.

I try to never make assumptions about things with which I am not experienced. At least, that works better for me. I don't need the third rail, and I'm better without it. I know that for sure.

This is the only thread where I rep posts then come back to read them.

Thanks for sharing. Earlier this week I was talking in a meeting about how, if I ever get to a place in my life where I can go out and successfully drink and not have it bring everything around me down and I am really convinced that that is the case, then drinking will be the last thing that I want to do. I wouldn't even think about it. Because why would I?

But I'm not sure I will ever get to that point. For those of us that qualify to the highest degree and pass with flying colors - that point may not exist.

As long as I still have cravings and think about drinking and want to drink then I know that I can't drink. 

But here's the tricky part that I think I lose some people at when I try to explain this theory: it doesn't work in reverse. I have plenty of days where I don't want to drink. Does that mean I'm cured? Fuck no. But it does mean that in that moment I'm not going to pick up a bottle. Because really, at the end of the day, we are all adults here with free will and self agency. No one can make the decision to take that first sip but me. Im not going to have a day where I reflect and think, "Fuck! Everything was going so well. I had no desire to drink at all and wasn't thinking about it and didn't want to touch the stuff but then I just found myself 7 shots deep into a fifth of grain vodka!" 

Somewhere along the line there has to be an urge, a desire, a craving, an action that results in that first sip. If I can stay spirtiually fit, those urges are a reminder that I'm not ready. If I have really bought into the program and am honest with myself, then I should also be able to look myself in the eye and say I never will be ready.

And if I really am ready again, why would I go drink? That would just be silly.

But these are just thoughts I have that aren't always grounded in experience. YMMV.

Edited October 2, 2020 by ztejas

[Reagan1k 3024]

When a a gorilla is fucking you,  you don’t get to tell him when to stop.

The gorilla will stop when it wants to.  I may still be alive but I very well may be dead, The choice is his not mine.

That’s my experience.

Grace gave me a moment of clarity to go ask for help before I instinctively picked up again, but next time I may not be so lucky.

I used to think “I” sought help and could do so again.... now I believe Seal Team 6 (in the form of Grace) swooped in and reduced me.... all I did was get on the helicopter.  I didn’t plan or execute the rescue and next time that Grace may not be enough to rescue me.   YMMV-  but I’m not willing to take that chance. 

[ztejas 43544]

3 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

but I’m not willing to take that chance. 

Me neither. But I need to think that I have another recovery and 1st step in me. If not I could be a dead man walking. I just hope the Gorilla is wearing a condom if I wind up back out there.

I think we all come from different places on this thread and wind up agreeing on the same principles. But if I'm getting anything wrong I want to hear y'alls experience.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

12 hours ago, ztejas said:

This is the only thread where I rep posts then come back to read them.

Thanks for sharing. Earlier this week I was talking in a meeting about how, if I ever get to a place in my life where I can go out and successfully drink and not have it bring everything around me down and I am really convinced that that is the case, then drinking will be the last thing that I want to do. I wouldn't even think about it. Because why would I?

But I'm not sure I will ever get to that point. For those of us that qualify to the highest degree and pass with flying colors - that point may not exist.

As long as I still have cravings and think about drinking and want to drink then I know that I can't drink. 

But here's the tricky part that I think I lose some people at when I try to explain this theory: it doesn't work in reverse. I have plenty of days where I don't want to drink. Does that mean I'm cured? Fuck no. But it does mean that in that moment I'm not going to pick up a bottle. Because really, at the end of the day, we are all adults here with free will and self agency. No one can make the decision to take that first sip but me. Im not going to have a day where I reflect and think, "Fuck! Everything was going so well. I had no desire to drink at all and wasn't thinking about it and didn't want to touch the stuff but then I just found myself 7 shots deep into a fifth of grain vodka!" 

Somewhere along the line there has to be an urge, a desire, a craving, an action that results in that first sip. If I can stay spirtiually fit, those urges are a reminder that I'm not ready. If I have really bought into the program and am honest with myself, then I should also be able to look myself in the eye and say I never will be ready.

And if I really am ready again, why would I go drink? That would just be silly.

But these are just thoughts I have that aren't always grounded in experience. YMMV.

I think in my case envisioning a day when I could some day drink successfully, whatever that means, even if I allowed myself that thought only because I told myself I would reject it; or trying to imagine if my childhood hadn't been so fucked up (so I would be able to drink like a normie today), or wishing I hadn't already drank so much I've set up well-worn pathways that lead in a month or two to the fetal position around a vodka bottle, all of these have proven worrisome portents of relapse. It's a form of bargaining, all these "ifs" and "if onlys." They are very seductive and very dangerous.

My last relapse took the form of a bottle of vodka I bought to prove to myself that it had lost its hold over me. The first night I only had a couple of drinks. Next night, a little more. And then the bottle was gone -- it was "only" a traveler, not a handle, so I sure showed that vodka it didn't have me in its clutches as it once did, didn't I? In fact, I didn't even enjoy it very much.

In fact I disliked it so much I bought another bottle a few days later and then was off to the races after that. Yes, as relapses go, I've had worse. No rehab, arrests, accidents or job loss, this time, but who's to say the next one won't be much worse? And it all came about because I believed I was at a place where I could drink successfully, or that I had that stuff so licked, I could drink it and take or leave it. Wrong. 

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31540]

I'm going to guess, but it's a little presumptuous, that most of us in recovery had reached a point where we really feared whether we had "another recovery or sobriety in us."  Certainly true in my case.

[ztejas 43544]

20 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I think in my case envisioning a day when I could some day drink successfully, whatever that means, even if I allowed myself that thought only because I told myself I would reject it; or trying to imagine if my childhood hadn't been so fucked up (so I would be able to drink like a normie today), or wishing I hadn't already drank so much I've set up well-worn pathways that lead in a month or two to the fetal position around a vodka bottle, all of these have proven worrisome portents of relapse. It's a form of bargaining, all these "ifs" and "if onlys." They are very seductive and very dangerous.

My last relapse took the form of a bottle of vodka I bought to prove to myself that it had lost its hold over me. The first night I only had a couple of drinks. Next night, a little more. And then the bottle was gone -- it was "only" a traveler, not a handle, so I sure showed that vodka it didn't have me in its clutches as it once did, didn't I? In fact, I didn't even enjoy it very much.

In fact I disliked it so much I bought another bottle a few days later and then was off to the races after that. Yes, as relapses go, I've had worse. No rehab, arrests, accidents or job loss, this time, but who's to say the next one won't be much worse? And it all came about because I believed I was at a place where I could drink successfully, or that I had that stuff so licked, I could drink it and take or leave it. Wrong. 

 

 

I think you're talking past me a little bit but I appreciate the response. 

And it's probably my fault, I'm not always great at conveying my thoughts or where I'm coming from, especially when it comes to something as precarious and enigmatic as my alcoholism.

[ztejas 43544]

3 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm going to guess, but it's a little presumptuous, that most of us in recovery had reached a point where we really feared whether we had "another recovery or sobriety in us."  Certainly true in my case.

I don't think thats presumptuous at all. I've heard that echoed many times in the rooms. Especially from one woman that would frequently remark, "I have hundreds of relapses still in me. I don't think I have another recovery."

She has recently gone dark on me. Hopefully not on purpose or out of fear of coming clean. If she is back out, she will wind up dead or needing a liver transplant very quickly. I beleived her when she said she didn't think she could do rehab again. 

Some people are too far gone. Those are the saddest cases but I can't spend all of my time and effort getting hung up on them. My recovery comes first. Then we can talk about yours. Sometimes, in fact, we need to talk about yours so that mine can come first. Triangle and circle and 12th step and all that jazz.

[TwiceHorn 31540]

It is certainly commonly expressed and it may be the ultimate expression of "the bottom" or the desperation needed for recovery.

People vary pretty wildly in their experiences and losses that drive them to serious embarkation on a program of recovery; the so-called "high-bottom" and "low-bottom" drunks.  But I think a common thread is that we had indulged in whatever it is that makes us try to drink again successfully, whether it's ego or craving or dishonesty or some combination or something else, to the point where we no longer doubted whether we could drink successfully.  The only remaining question was whether we could be sober successfully.

[ztejas 43544]

2 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

the so-called "high-bottom" and "low-bottom" drunks

Right. And I don't like those expressions because I don't think you can quantify what a "bottom" is. 

You're either alive or you ain't. You're either in the rooms or you ain't. The only person that can tell you whether you qualify or not is yourself.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I'm going to guess, but it's a little presumptuous, that most of us in recovery had reached a point where we really feared whether we had "another recovery or sobriety in us."  Certainly true in my case.

I have that belief, personally. I can remember what it was like to chug the last of my Skol at 9 AM, drag myself out of that hotel room to go home, and then sit on the bed in our master in tears pathetically begging my wife to let me call off the sober rover before it got there to take me away to rehab. It wasn't even her choice, I just really wanted someone to tell me "nah, you're OK for 24 more hours before you have to change". That was hard. Giving in and going was hard. Everything about the first day, week, month, etc of this recovery was harder than whatever it is I have to do to stay sober today, so that helps me make the decision to do the sober things. 

When I think about just how hard it was to achieve escape velocity from the active addiction at the end, I am not optimistic I could do it again. 

[Celery Man 21002]

On 10/2/2020 at 8:10 PM, BurntEyes said:

Hmmmm, well little pro tip @SwanderedTalent being in a comma makes quitting easy.

man my 1 month chip was some bullshit

I never really got off the wagon for any considerable period of time and then hopped back on. I tortured myself a bunch of times at the end stage but I don't think it amounted past more than 48 hours if that, and some of them just a long "I'm Tapering!" /ralphwiggum that was just a really miserable slow process to get drunk enough to stop caring enough to "taper". It was other people intervening and a whole bunch of external events that got me "sober" at a treatment facility where I'm fucking glad I was in a place to get what I needed to get to get some more distance between my last drink and some more ability to to not pick it back up later.

Above, I think in this same thread of conversation, someone asked what the most important individual value is in AA. I would point to step 1. Admitting powerlessness. Not to your sponsor, to yourself. Admit it, know it, remember it, don't doubt it, internalize it. When that "maybe I can" FUCK hot stove. Nope. Powerless.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

On 10/6/2020 at 9:13 PM, Celery Man said:

man my 1 month chip was some bullshit

I never really got off the wagon for any considerable period of time and then hopped back on. I tortured myself a bunch of times at the end stage but I don't think it amounted past more than 48 hours if that, and some of them just a long "I'm Tapering!" /ralphwiggum that was just a really miserable slow process to get drunk enough to stop caring enough to "taper". It was other people intervening and a whole bunch of external events that got me "sober" at a treatment facility where I'm fucking glad I was in a place to get what I needed to get to get some more distance between my last drink and some more ability to to not pick it back up later.

Above, I think in this same thread of conversation, someone asked what the most important individual value is in AA. I would point to step 1. Admitting powerlessness. Not to your sponsor, to yourself. Admit it, know it, remember it, don't doubt it, internalize it. When that "maybe I can" FUCK hot stove. Nope. Powerless.

I kind of thought the same at the time, when I got my red quarter-- when you're locked up in an alcohol-free environment, those days don't feel like they "count" the way it does when you have money, car keys and a liquor store within easy driving distance and you decide to go to a meeting, call your sponsor, etc, until the craving passes. 

I don't actually think that way, but that's how it felt taking that thirty day chip @ Bouldin-- "well ACKSHALLY...."

Very grateful today that I got that enforced separation.

[TexArcher 38075]

On 10/2/2020 at 4:04 PM, SwanderedTalent said:

Everything about the first day, week, month, etc of this recovery was harder than whatever it is I have to do to stay sober today, so that helps me make the decision to do the sober things. 

When I think about just how hard it was to achieve escape velocity from the active addiction at the end, I am not optimistic I could do it again. 

This is me.

I don't drink today mostly because I just don't want to.  I never would've believed I'd feel that way someday, but it's true.  I can walk into a liquor store with a girlfriend or a crowded bar for some live music and all those bottles have nothing to say to me anymore.  We've acheived a truce.  

But I also know that if I ever allow even one drop of alcohol to cross these lips, it'll kill me.  I've detoxed twice and I know I don't have a third one in me.

That makes it easier to hold up my end of the truce.

[ztejas 43544]

Couple of thoughts. I've shared both in meetings this week.

The idea that the first week, month etc. is harder doesn't really jive with me. It's a 24 hour program every day for me, and there are aspects that are actually harder for me the longer I'm sober. The more I get my life back together, the better I feel, the more grounded I am spiritually - the more that that addict part of my brain thinks "hey, you can have a drink, it'll be fun - it'll be different this time!". My disease is really good at getting me to forget what got me here, even though I've had every experience to convince myself that I can't drink multiple times. I've almost killed myself multiple times. I've been arrested multiple times. I should have multiple DUIs. Not "wow I drove drunk a lot, I could have been pulled over!" type DUIs, but "wow I'm really glad that cop didn't pop me because I was clearly drunk" and "I'm really glad the EMS beat the cops to the scene when I totalled my car" and "I'm glad that homeless guy helped me yank my bumper off my front tire so I could get out of there". I've made an ass of myself and self-loathed the next day so many times that I don't like to think about it.

I don't need more convincing or experience. But someone said yesterday "this disease is patient" and I'll be damned if that isn't the honest to God truth. 

I've largely quit thinking about it in terms of "I can't drink anymore - I'm powerless" and instead tell myself "That isn't what I do anymore. Y'all go ahead though, I get it." When I think of it in terms of what I CAN and CAN'T do it's almost like giving my addict brain a challenge to try and follow through on. Because I'm that arrogant and that much of a selfish asshole. It's much harder for me to say, "alright, let's drop everything positive thats happened over the past half year and get back out there!" than "you can have a few drinks today - it'll be fine". Powerlessness for me isn't about being powerless over the decision to drink - it's about being powerless over what will happen if I do drink. Powerless over what other people around me choose to do. Powerless over not attending meetings and expecting to be miraculously cured of my restless, irritable, discontent in spite of it. I understand that taking personal agency completely out of the equation may work for some people, but that gets very dangerous for me. I don't need thoughts running through my head of "Nothing matters and I can't do anything to change it and I have a disease so I can't help it - it's not MY decision to get drunk - it's my disease - I'm powerless!". When all of the silt settles at the bottom of that river of shit it is ALWAYS my decision to pick back up - just like it's my decision to choose life over death and a different way of living every day in this program. 

If I'm feeling restless or irritable or anxious or depressed, God is there to tell me "Hey chief, what are we not doing that we should be?". The follow up is usually, "why don't you get your ass to a meeting and sit there for an hour and get back to me. You skipped going yesterday, remember? So quit bitching and actually work your program." There are of course more nuanced variations such as "are you staying hydrated? How many cigarettes did you smoke yesterday? What have you been putting in your body? HAVE YA TALKED TO YA MOTHA?" (my God is kind of like the supporting cast in Good Will Hunting).

But, you know, those are just like, my opinions and what is keeping me sober today. I'm still early enough in recovery that I have some time to figure out the bigger picture shit as long as i keep making it another 24 hours without a drink.

Ask again later and I'll probably have some different thoughts on all of this. 

- Peace

[TwiceHorn 31540]

There is indeed a paradox to the concept of powerlessness.

I hope that, in addition to meetings, you are engaged with a sponsor and the steps.

[TexArcher 38075]

30 minutes ago, ztejas said:

The idea that the first week, month etc. is harder doesn't really jive with me. It's a 24 hour program every day for me, and there are aspects that are actually harder for me the longer I'm sober.

I know exactly what you mean.  Recovery isn't always perfectly linear.  Day 34 might be significantly harder than Day 19 was, for no apparent reason.  There are probably biorhythms and all sorts of other things involved, on top of the fact that alcoholism is a sneaky bitch with a large, diverse toolkit.  That's why our coping toolkit has to be so large and diverse.

But in general, most find it easier at 6 months than at 1 month, and easier at 12 months than at 6 months, and so on.  It's important to know that it does get easier, eventually.

Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and banking sober days.  Make the most of the good days, power through the bad ones, and reach out for help every single time you feel like you need to.  Hell, reach out on the days you feel like you don't need to, too.

[ztejas 43544]

8 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

I know exactly what you mean.  Recovery isn't always perfectly linear.  Day 34 might be significantly harder than Day 19 was, for no apparent reason.  There are probably biorhythms and all sorts of other things involved, on top of the fact that alcoholism is a sneaky bitch with a large, diverse toolkit.  That's why our coping toolkit has to be so large and diverse.

But in general, most find it easier at 6 months than at 1 month, and easier at 12 months than at 6 months, and so on.  It's important to know that it does get easier, eventually.

Just keep putting one foot in front of the other and banking sober days.  Make the most of the good days, power through the bad ones, and reach out for help every single time you feel like you need to.  Hell, reach out on the days you feel like you don't need to, too.

I'm not really saying one is harder than the other. What is the happiness principle about it doesn't matter your status because you still see what's below you and above you either way? That's kind of how I feel sometimes. I don't know if it's always "easier" - but I do know that my bad and good days are better than they were.

[pch 1261]

I am grateful to be sober today knowing that life on life's terms even when your heart is aching is better than being drunk.  I just posted a picture in the my dog is awesome thread of my dog, Zeke, who we will have to day goodbye to today at 2:30.  The next right thing sometimes hurts but it is with a clear conscience thanks to AA that both my wife and I have come to this decision and will face that moment together as we have with our previous pets.  So many sober friends have already reached out and offered love and support to both of us which lets us know we are not alone in this time of impending loss.  I find myself very melancholy going from the sadness of no longer seeing my buddy to joy in knowing he will be free to be the dog he was when he was first brought into our home.  I cooked steaks last night and he had his fill as always.  He let me know that it is OK to let him go so with a heavy heart we are sending him to be reunited with his big brother Bailey.  It's a good day to be sober and feel these feelings instead of numbing them with alcohol-my boy Zeke never saw me drunk.

[TwiceHorn 31540]

5 minutes ago, pch said:

I am grateful to be sober today knowing that life on life's terms even when your heart is aching is better than being drunk.  I just posted a picture in the my dog is awesome thread of my dog, Zeke, who we will have to day goodbye to today at 2:30.  The next right thing sometimes hurts but it is with a clear conscience thanks to AA that both my wife and I have come to this decision and will face that moment together as we have with our previous pets.  So many sober friends have already reached out and offered love and support to both of us which lets us know we are not alone in this time of impending loss.  I find myself very melancholy going from the sadness of no longer seeing my buddy to joy in knowing he will be free to be the dog he was when he was first brought into our home.  I cooked steaks last night and he had his fill as always.  He let me know that it is OK to let him go so with a heavy heart we are sending him to be reunited with his big brother Bailey.  It's a good day to be sober and feel these feelings instead of numbing them with alcohol-my boy Zeke never saw me drunk.

Sorry for your loss, friend.

[TwiceHorn 31540]

On 10/8/2020 at 10:41 AM, ztejas said:

 it doesn't matter your status because you still see what's below you and above you either way? 

This is another benefit of sobriety recovery.  I used to "look up" all the time and rarely down.  It was a major contributor to my discontent.

I can't say that I am 100% comfortable in my own skin 100% of the time.  But it is most of the time, and I "look down" with gratitude or at least just around and neither up nor down far more often than before recovery.

I have never really accepted that one should be euphorically happy all or most of the time, although I pursued it with alcohol with a mad passion.  I am content being content, and far less discontent than I have ever been.

Edited October 10, 2020 by TwiceHorn

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

On 10/8/2020 at 9:50 AM, ztejas said:

The idea that the first week, month etc. is harder doesn't really jive with me.

I used to think that, before a bunch of relapses, before it felt like I had lived my life down to a pencil point. I was entirely certain I could and would stop drinking, the first 1-2-30-75 days, every single time I quit-- up until this time now, when it has literally been an "I don't know what I'm doing tomorrow, ask me then, but today I am sober" type of proposition. I didn't have a single second of pink cloud this time. I gradually, steadily, developed a confidence that working the program could and would deliver me from obsessive thoughts about drinking. Over time, I began to really see the distinction expressed in the saying of trouble, "that was my day, (but) that's not my life". I got truly serene in the "AA acceptance" sense of the word-- not happy and sunny and positive, but calm and rational. 

In the past, I didn't necessarily have to do hard work to stay sober early on; the pain was still fresh and it provided enough motivation to stay away from the first drink. The pain was newer, the scar tissue wasn't as thick, so I was easier to scare. The bottom wasn't as low emotionally, spiritually, or in terms of consequence, so there was a much more positive "dead cat bounce" from just stopping the alcohol intake. And consequence here isn't really a term referring to jail or divorce or unemployment or bankruptcy. I mean it in terms of how much of my soul I'd lost. By the end, the relapses were really turning me into something I didn't recognize, and each time it was much harder to feel like "I can change back to <what I think of as the real me>". I started to feel like "welp, now you've done it, you might as well see it all the way down" (and that thought will be with me, lurking, until the day I die; it's waiting for something truly catastrophic to happen so it can say "you tried, it didn't work, you can finally give up"). 

Also, my attitude was good but misguided, too. I might have SAID "I"m sober today, that's all that matters" but in my heart of hearts, that wasn't how I was approaching it-- I still treated the days like I was entitled to good and bad ones and the bad ones called for all my the intentional manufacture of misery that I had learned as a drinker. I mistook serenity for happiness; I thought that when I felt positive, I was serene, and if I felt negative, then I had to follow those emotions forward because they were obviously genuine. That's why somewhere in the PAWS peak of 90-180 days, I got really vulnerable. 

Glad that at least in that regard, maybe our journeys are different. 

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

Could  use T&P.  Marriage is on the rocks.  Wife is running away. To be honest, she's running from her own guilt, and chasing a worldly "happiness."  The reason I post this here is b/c the thought of drinking is creeping in.  I don't have the desire. I don't necessarily have the craving.  But the thought is creeping back.  Tried to take my wife out last weekend.  She was full and got up from the table, half a beer.  I joked, "Want ME to finish it?"  ... "I don't care. If you want to, go ahead."  I share that to show how her heart has turned too.  

[pch 1261]

2 hours ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Could  use T&P.  Marriage is on the rocks.  Wife is running away. To be honest, she's running from her own guilt, and chasing a worldly "happiness."  The reason I post this here is b/c the thought of drinking is creeping in.  I don't have the desire. I don't necessarily have the craving.  But the thought is creeping back.  Tried to take my wife out last weekend.  She was full and got up from the table, half a beer.  I joked, "Want ME to finish it?"  ... "I don't care. If you want to, go ahead."  I share that to show how her heart has turned too.  

Glad to remember you and the wife tonight my friend.  Please continue in the road to happy destiny and know that sometimes painful detours occur there.  Our fellowship is a good place to find peace in this painful time.  My sponsor tells me frequently to lean in to the pain, embrace it, and listen for the lesson that is there.  Let me know if I can help you.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

On 10/10/2020 at 2:00 PM, ernest_t_bass said:

Could  use T&P.  Marriage is on the rocks.  Wife is running away. To be honest, she's running from her own guilt, and chasing a worldly "happiness."  The reason I post this here is b/c the thought of drinking is creeping in.  I don't have the desire. I don't necessarily have the craving.  But the thought is creeping back.  Tried to take my wife out last weekend.  She was full and got up from the table, half a beer.  I joked, "Want ME to finish it?"  ... "I don't care. If you want to, go ahead."  I share that to show how her heart has turned too.  

Hey man, we love you.

This may not be cool to say around here, but even though I am most definitely an alcoholic, getting over my ex has been way harder than not drinking. It something that I still struggle with even though this is the best I've ever been in that department.

Obsessive thinking and compulsive actions block me from the best version of myself that my higher power wants me to be. That's something that I have to come to grips with in all facets of my life. Keep chasing that happy, joyous, and free.

Prayer and meditation is all I can suggest.

[BearSchlong 8115]

On 10/10/2020 at 2:00 PM, ernest_t_bass said:

Could  use T&P.  Marriage is on the rocks.  Wife is running away. To be honest, she's running from her own guilt, and chasing a worldly "happiness."  The reason I post this here is b/c the thought of drinking is creeping in.  I don't have the desire. I don't necessarily have the craving.  But the thought is creeping back.  Tried to take my wife out last weekend.  She was full and got up from the table, half a beer.  I joked, "Want ME to finish it?"  ... "I don't care. If you want to, go ahead."  I share that to show how her heart has turned too.  

Thoughts, hugs, prayers and love, @ernest_t_bass.  Remember that God wants you to live happy, joyous and free, and if that's not the case then it's a signal that something has to change.

That creeping thought - it's a reservation, and it's dangerous. I think about drinking all the time but when I think, think, think it through I can't imagine a scenario that ends with me thinking "well, THAT went well. . ."

Edited October 13, 2020 by BearSchlong
tangential and smug old timer bullshit. the kind of stuff that gets people punched.

[BearSchlong 8115]

On 10/10/2020 at 4:15 PM, pch said:

  My sponsor tells me frequently to lean in to the pain, embrace it, and listen for the lesson that is there.

Mine too.

[NAVY 6747]

Just checking in to stay honest. I can't let myself forget that booze and me don't mix. 289 days since my last glass. 

Hook'em

[ztejas 43544]

@ernest_t_bass hanging in there?

[NAVY 6747]

On 10/15/2020 at 12:51 PM, ztejas said:

@ernest_t_bass hanging in there?

All good. Thought about boozier days this AM but it registered like the the stupid years. No thanks. I’m loving the new pathway 

It's important to me to own the "I'm an alcoholic" part. Posting with y'all helps 

ps. I’m an idiot! Just noticed that question wasn’t aimed at me. Will take remedial surly-ing course now 

Edited October 16, 2020 by NAVY

[gasman 114]

On 10/8/2020 at 8:45 AM, SwanderedTalent said:

I kind of thought the same at the time, when I got my red quarter-- when you're locked up in an alcohol-free environment, those days don't feel like they "count" the way it does when you have money, car keys and a liquor store within easy driving distance and you decide to go to a meeting, call your sponsor, etc, until the craving passes. 

I don't actually think that way, but that's how it felt taking that thirty day chip @ Bouldin-- "well ACKSHALLY...."

Very grateful today that I got that enforced separation.

They count. They all count. 

[pch 1261]

4 hours ago, NAVY said:

All good. Thought about boozier days this AM but it registered like the the stupid years. No thanks. I’m loving the new pathway 

It's important to me to own the "I'm an alcoholic" part. Posting with y'all helps 

You're on the right path here.  It wasn't until I took my third desire chip and realized what that statement meant in it's entirety that I began acting on the suggestions of those who spoke these words and had what I wanted. I have found that staying in touch here and checking in is an action that is positive which can offset some of the negative things that are sure to happen in life.  Keep it up, keep coming back, and keep in touch.

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

6 hours ago, ztejas said:

@ernest_t_bass hanging in there?

Yeah. I have no desire to drink.  Just that "thought" creeping back in.  I will be at the lowest of lows if and when I ever drink again.  With the joy I have in my heart from the Holy Spirit, I'm good!  

[ztejas 43544]

9 minutes ago, ernest_t_bass said:

Yeah. I have no desire to drink.  Just that "thought" creeping back in.

About par for the course for me right now. Well not "creeping" but it "creeps" sometimes. Glad to hear it. Sounds like you have a good relationship with your HP. Still working on that over here.

I had a buddy go back out recently and come back in after about 10 days. He kind of does that chronically and doesn't think it's a big deal. I told him "You know man, if you enjoy it or like it enough to keep going back out, and it doesn't wreck your life, then that's your decision. But for me, it was really fucking bad when I was out there. When I went back out this last time I didn't even enjoy it."

A big part of me not drinking right now is how much better life is without it. I'm not looking to lose that momentum, because I know how quickly I can bottom out if I choose to take that first drink.

[ernest_t_bass 1196]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

About par for the course for me right now. Well not "creeping" but it "creeps" sometimes. Glad to hear it. Sounds like you have a good relationship with your HP. Still working on that over here.

I had a buddy go back out recently and come back in after about 10 days. He kind of does that chronically and doesn't think it's a big deal. I told him "You know man, if you enjoy it or like it enough to keep going back out, and it doesn't wreck your life, then that's your decision. But for me, it was really fucking bad when I was out there. When I went back out this last time I didn't even enjoy it."

A big part of me not drinking right now is how much better life is without it. I'm not looking to lose that momentum, because I know how quickly I can bottom out if I choose to take that first drink.

"Creeps" is a better way to describe it, as it is not growing, rather it comes and goes. The times are few and far between. 

[BearSchlong 8115]

Just saw this in one of my recovery facebook groups and thought y'all would enjoy.

 

[pch 1261]

I had a euphoric recall moment this morning while doing my daily reading and prayers.  As a child growing up with an untreated alcoholic father, I used to go with him to the package store a couple of blocks from our home.  It was a little walk in store with counters on both sides and bottles that lined the wall behind them.  The owner would just reach up and get my father a fifth of Old Charter when he walked through the door, and would give me a peppermint stick.  The thing I remember most was the smell of that store-not a bad one, but unique that I have not encountered since.  There was something similar at the store I used to frequent here in FW, but not the same.  Then I remembered some of the results of my father consuming his purchase and later, when I did so.  I thanked God that today if required to go into a package store, it is for a good purpose, one that does not include my needing to buy something to get me through the day or change the way I feel.