I'm An Alcoholic

[ztejas 43411]

6 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

The other step I took today was reach out to my old therapist. I will still stop drinking, but I figured if there are underlying issues than better deal with them as well. 

If you AREN'T a real alcoholic, getting back into therapy and moderating your drinking might be better for you than simply white-knuckling quitting the booze for awhile sans therapy or meetings or anything. I know that at certain points in my life alcohol really wasn't the issue - but it was always masking other issues. 

Then again, I had always racked up enough consequences to keep my periods of non-problem drinking few and far between. And... I AM a real alcoholic and was never going to get anywhere without removing the filter of substance from my life. 

To expound on Reagan's point - drinkers come in all shapes and sizes. There are non-alcoholics that drink more than true alcoholics that haven't gotten sober yet. There are problem drinkers that don't drink enough or frequently enough to raise any medical concerns that still suffer from the same consequences heavy-drinking alcoholics do (i.e. Becky got shitfaced after work Friday and T-boned an old lady driving drunk. But Becky never drinks!). There are heavy-drinking, problem-drinking, real alcoholics that have never developed a life-threatening physical dependency to alcohol and find the idea of needing a drink in the morning to be preposterous (raises hand - as would many "functioning" alcoholics). There are people that drink themselves halfway to death that aren't alcoholics and never thought they had a problem until a fateful checkup and bloodwork panel.

Some of these drinkers are rare, some are quite common.

[InkaUtexas 25861]

Man, appreciate it, and have no real way of knowing, which is why I am going to do both routes for now. 

I have thought about this a lot today and the great insight. And really I do not know. And I have no problem with a beer in the morning, but it was very rare if there were two. Well except for UT football days. Yeah, guilty as charged. 

It has never impacted my work, until lately but that could also be the negative situation I was in, and perhaps the pressure we are all living under right now. I spoke to the ex and we agreed that we were damn good roommates, good co-workers, and booze is when we would fight. That is something I will talk to her face to face about, but I do not want to go back to where I was when I opened this thread yesterday and decided to post today. 

Again, thanks to you all, off to get some topo Chico from HEB (if they are open). 

 

 

[hullabelew 3723]

22 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Thanks @ztejas

And yeah, that is my plan. Problem is my entire (safe) social network where I live focuses on drinking. taking the day off today to get my mountain bike back to where it needs to be. Exercise is going to be the key I think as the community locks back down. 

I think we all feel like that.  My bar-b-que team, neighborhood buddies, their families......BIG drinkers.  I haven't missed a beat with them.  I told them all when I went to rehab and they have been completely supportive.

Three of the people who helped me the most before and after rehab were two guys that I work with and was drinking at lunch with.  

This last weekend, I went to a boy's weekend with a couple of drinking buddies.  Not a problem.  I probably wouldn't have done that in the first year, but at a 18 months, it was not a big deal at all.  Multiple lunches with former drinking partners....no pressure from them...most ask about how I'm doing with it and many have had questions about my process.  I've had several phone calls asking for advice.  

In short, for me, it hasn't been as near of a big deal and I thought it would be.  In spite of how I felt, it isn't as big of a deal as I thought it would be.    

 

[Al_4_ISU 12451]

I feel absolutely zero need to ply my non-drinking friends into drinking, but I do pay attention to whom among my friends leans on those guys to drink.  The guys who feel the need to offer booze to the non-drinkers seem to be the ones who are the closest to having problems of their own, from outside observation.

[BearSchlong 8083]

IMO that's accurate.

Since active alcoholics think they are "normal," then people who don't drink like they do simply aren't doing it right.

 

[Reagan1k 3024]

People couldn't care less that I stopped drinking, other than those who were impacted by it and those select people are thrilled.

Years later, I still have reasonably close social acquaintances who haven't even noticed.  The fact of the matter is that they weren't paying attention to my drinking before, and still aren't - in spite of my ego telling me that everyone is always watching me, judging me, and monitoring my every move.

The only people who have every really said anything were a couple of other alcoholics who have come to me asking how I stopped and wanting me to help them. 

I've come to believe through experience that the only people who judge or monitor others' drinking in a social setting are (as Bear said) problem drinkers or alcoholics who are using  others as a measuring stick; Either...."I drink like them and they aren't a drunk so I'm not either." or "I don't drink as much as them so I'm OK." 

Rationalization at its finest. 

Once we realize that we aren't the center of the universe and the focus of all attention and thought, the anxiety and self consciousness lifts, both about drinking and the 1000 other things on which we think there is a spotlight in our magnifying mind.

[Kennythetiger 9375]

On 11/17/2020 at 8:48 AM, Al_4_ISU said:

I feel absolutely zero need to ply my non-drinking friends into drinking, but I do pay attention to whom among my friends leans on those guys to drink.  The guys who feel the need to offer booze to the non-drinkers seem to be the ones who are the closest to having problems of their own, from outside observation.

I think I've mentioned this before, but two of my best drinking buddies also became two of my biggest supporters of sobriety.  Said they liked the nice Kenny much more than the asshole Kenny.  Tired of giving me rides home, too.

They're also considerate to invite me down to our Country Club about once a month for a drink.  I had mentioned at one point that I felt a little left-out of the social gatherings once I quit drinking.  Luckily moscow mules took off like wildfire with the female crowd here in the midwest, so all of our local bars stock ginger beer.  

[Kennythetiger 9375]

On 11/16/2020 at 6:50 PM, InkaUtexas said:

Man, appreciate it, and have no real way of knowing, which is why I am going to do both routes for now. 

I have thought about this a lot today and the great insight. And really I do not know. And I have no problem with a beer in the morning, but it was very rare if there were two. Well except for UT football days. Yeah, guilty as charged. 

It has never impacted my work, until lately but that could also be the negative situation I was in, and perhaps the pressure we are all living under right now. I spoke to the ex and we agreed that we were damn good roommates, good co-workers, and booze is when we would fight. That is something I will talk to her face to face about, but I do not want to go back to where I was when I opened this thread yesterday and decided to post today. 

Again, thanks to you all, off to get some topo Chico from HEB (if they are open). 

 

 

Takes all kinds.  During my heaviest drinking days, I was regularly drinking four straight nights, and often the weekend mornings, too.  But hell, when I finally broke down and walked into a meeting, I was only drinking one night a month, and had for several months in a row.  It was all the other shit that was in my head and in my life- I felt like I was going to have a nervous breakdown, and I knew from Bear, Reagan, Swandered, Twice, et al that a meeting was a good place to be.  I was blessed enough to slide by the addiction issue, but as I stated in our local meeting the other night, I could fuck-up more in one night of drinking than most non-alcoholics could in the rest of the month.  I felt comfortable sitting in a meeting chair when I realized that a lot of my damage wasn't necessarily done by active things that I had done by drinking, but by the wonderful things that I was willing to give up in trade for the opportunity to drink.  I didn't even have to physically drink- I just didn't want the opportunity to do so to leave.  

[Al_4_ISU 12451]

 

17 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

I think I've mentioned this before, but two of my best drinking buddies also became two of my biggest supporters of sobriety.  Said they liked the nice Kenny much more than the asshole Kenny.  Tired of giving me rides home, too.

They're also considerate to invite me down to our Country Club about once a month for a drink.  I had mentioned at one point that I felt a little left-out of the social gatherings once I quit drinking.  Luckily moscow mules took off like wildfire with the female crowd here in the midwest, so all of our local bars stock ginger beer.  

The friend I was subtly alluding to (the guy offering the drinks to the non drinkers) in the other post is someone who's sobriety I would massively support.

I'm not sure that he needs to quit drinking completely, but he needs to try moderating, and if he can't do that, he's going to get to a point where he's forced to quit.  He's a very hard drinker (4-5 nights per week with at least 2 of them stumbling drunk) but has mostly avoided consequences because I don't think he's physically dependent, and when he has to be sober (at work, kids events, whatever) he has no problem not drinking.

The problem is that the second he's free of responsibility, he just gets after it.  It seems like his binges come and go and there are times where he doesn't get hammered for awhile, and then there will be a month where you wonder how he functions.

His family has never given him an ultimatum, and he's had one OWI, some time ago, and he's never been told by a doctor that it's affecting his health (he's still relatively young).  But it's obvious that if he doesn't dial it back, either his family or his doctor will give him an ultimatum, and I'd just like to see him dial it down before that happens.  I'm not concerned about him hurting anyone (he's an absolute teddy bear, even shitfaced), but I don't know how it couldn't annoy his wife.  I think she's just so steeped in Midwestern stoicism that she tolerates it without saying anything because he does the things she asks him to, and has never stepped out on her either.

I have another buddy who like me successfully moderated when things were getting worse but hadn't gotten truly bad, and we've both tried to guide him down that path, but he seems destined to eventually turn himself into an alcoholic.

[ztejas 43411]

4 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

He's a very hard drinker (4-5 nights per week with at least 2 of them stumbling drunk)

Alright alkies... who else smirked? Raise your hand.

[Al_4_ISU 12451]

1 minute ago, ztejas said:

Alright alkies... who else smirked? Raise your hand.

Well, that's why I'm posting, I guess.  Trying to figure out where things are.

I live in a place where everyone drinks a lot, but there aren't that many people who ID as alkies and you kind of assume that a lot of us probably are and are just in denial.  But I know very few people whose lives have felt serious consequence as a result of their drinking.  When my buddy drinks to the point of falling over a couple times a week, that's waaaay more than anyone else I know.  I might get that drunk twice a year.  Maybe.

When I read your guys' stories about basically being in a haze for days on end, going straight to the bottle to the point of blackout day in day out as a way to kill the outside world, I can count on less than one hand the number of people I know who have hit that level of drinking.  I have no experience with it myself (and can't even relate to it), even though I've had phases where I struggled with alcohol abuse as a coping mechanism.

Seems to me like consequences are the best guidepost, and my friend has dipped his toe into those waters, but hasn't really had a big one - yet.

[Kennythetiger 9375]

He probably will.  He's the me that I referenced in my "four nights a week" sentence.  To a t.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

22 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Well, that's why I'm posting, I guess.  Trying to figure out where things are.

I live in a place where everyone drinks a lot, but there aren't that many people who ID as alkies and you kind of assume that a lot of us probably are and are just in denial.  But I know very few people whose lives have felt serious consequence as a result of their drinking.  When my buddy drinks to the point of falling over a couple times a week, that's waaaay more than anyone else I know.  I might get that drunk twice a year.  Maybe.

When I read your guys' stories about basically being in a haze for days on end, going straight to the bottle to the point of blackout day in day out as a way to kill the outside world, I can count on less than one hand the number of people I know who have hit that level of drinking.  I have no experience with it myself (and can't even relate to it), even though I've had phases where I struggled with alcohol abuse as a coping mechanism.

Seems to me like consequences are the best guidepost, and my friend has dipped his toe into those waters, but hasn't really had a big one - yet.

Drunk me would probably be looking at rentals in Iowa. 

[Al_4_ISU 12451]

34 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

He probably will.  He's the me that I referenced in my "four nights a week" sentence.  To a t.

Yeah.  I suspect as much and am trying to get him to straighten up before he does.

[Al_4_ISU 12451]

29 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Drunk me would probably be looking at rentals in Iowa. 

Super low cost of living, super high acceptance of heavy drinking.

[ztejas 43411]

58 minutes ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Well, that's why I'm posting, I guess.  Trying to figure out where things are.

I live in a place where everyone drinks a lot, but there aren't that many people who ID as alkies and you kind of assume that a lot of us probably are and are just in denial.  But I know very few people whose lives have felt serious consequence as a result of their drinking.  When my buddy drinks to the point of falling over a couple times a week, that's waaaay more than anyone else I know.  I might get that drunk twice a year.  Maybe.

When I read your guys' stories about basically being in a haze for days on end, going straight to the bottle to the point of blackout day in day out as a way to kill the outside world, I can count on less than one hand the number of people I know who have hit that level of drinking.  I have no experience with it myself (and can't even relate to it), even though I've had phases where I struggled with alcohol abuse as a coping mechanism.

Seems to me like consequences are the best guidepost, and my friend has dipped his toe into those waters, but hasn't really had a big one - yet.

Yeah I mean I was basically making a joke at how it's hard for us to quantify hard or heavy drinking for normal people because we never drank normally (the smirking being thinking "oh come on, that's not that bad!").

You're probably right. He probably qualifies just fine as a very hard drinker. To me, 4-5 nights a week with two of those being oblivion/hazy memory drunks doesn't seem especially hard - but what do I know? I'm a fucking alcoholic. Me or others not thinking that's that much is kind of the issue and why I had to get sober 😁

If his drinking is causing issues in his career, relationships or with his health then that is PLENTY enough to point to as a chief suspect. That doesn't mean he's a serious alcoholic, though, it just means he drinks too much. Square/rectangle type deal.

Edited November 19, 2020 by ztejas

[Al_4_ISU 12451]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Yeah I mean I was basically making a joke at how it's hard for us to quantify hard or heavy drinking for normal people because we never drank normally.

You're probably right. He probably qualifies just fine as a very hard drinker. To me, 4-5 nights a week with two of those being oblivion/hazy memory drunks doesn't seem especially hard - but what do I know? I'm a fucking alcoholic. Me or others not thinking that's that much is kind of the issue and why I had to get sober 😁

If his drinking is causing issues in his career, relationships or with his health then that is PLENTY enough to point to as a chief suspect. That doesn't mean he's a serious alcoholic, though, it just means he drinks too much. Square/rectangle type deal.

That's kind of the crux of the whole thing.  It doesn't appear to be causing issues in those areas, but it seems like any day it's going to.  I suspect it's causing issues with his wife, but it's just that - a suspicion.  His career is fine, and his health - well, he smokes, and that's doing as much/more damage as the booze.  There's been nothing acute, but again, if you start smoking in high school, it's going to catch up with you for sure.

[InkaUtexas 25861]

Great posts and thank you all. 

Had dinner with the ex last night. No booze, and we had a great time. But I also had some great turn arounds in other areas this week, good and bad. It was my mom's birthday last night and first once since she passed (FUCK YOU COVID). There were a few moments when I wanted to walk to HEB, get a 6 pack and toast her. I didn't and I felt better this morning because of it. We agreed there would be no booze even though she knew how I was feeling. Last week that would have been us drinking the wine in the house, and a nice discussion going from plans for the future to work frustrations to "why don't you like my friends." 

I was the kill a few 12 packs of beer and 2-3 bottles of wine shared a week person before the hard stuff crept into my life. With my job having 50% of my clients overseas, having a beer at 3PM was normal and there were people who raised an eyebrow not realizing my day was done. Black out was very rare (twice a year) and always when a bottle or 3 was on the table.  I really don't know what I am in these categories but I am glad to have posted here. 

I started reading the Big Book. And about to go meet with my therapist. We shall see, but either way I felt better this morning and perhaps it is just because I allowed myself to confront the possibility. 

Again, thank you all. 

[gasman 114]

I was never in a haze for days. I had plenty of days where I did not drink at all. I probably drank a lot less than others here or some non-alcoholic heavy drinkers. A lot of people may simply consider me a problem or heavy drinker. My career was fine. My health was fine. Etc. What makes me an alcoholic is that once I had that first drink, most times I lost the ability to control how much I would consume after that. Not every time, but usually. I would enter plenty of evenings planning on one or two and invariably end up drunk. I didn't intend to, but somehow, there I was again. I may be one of those who the Big Book refers to as feeling the first nip of the wringer, but I have no doubt that things were not going to improve. My list of "I haven't done that yet" was getting smaller and smaller. Sitting here with almost 4 years of sobriety (moment of extreme gratitude....) I still can't even imagine having just one drink. There is simply no way for me to be able to successfully moderate once I have one. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by gasman

[ztejas 43411]

16 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I started reading the Big Book

 

16 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

I felt better this morning

Funny how that happens. Had dinner and a long talk with my sponsor last night and a frequent conversation point was that none of us really understand how the program works, just that it does.

We don't ask you to read the big book because we think it's the greatest thing ever written and follow everything it says to a T - or because we KNOW that it's going to fix you! We ask you to read it because it works for us and it works for a lot of other people and has worked for a long time. Maybe it will work for you, too.

Edited November 19, 2020 by ztejas

[InkaUtexas 25861]

Just now, ztejas said:

 

Funny how that happens. Had dinner and a long talk with my sponsor last night and a frequent conversation point was that none of us really understands how the program works, just that it does.

We don't ask you to read the big book because we think it's the greatest thing ever written and follow everything it says to a T - or because we KNOW that it's going to fix you! We ask you to read it because it works for us and it works for a lot of other people and has worked for a long time. Maybe it will work for you, too.

Agree, and am enjoying it. Hell, I want to give it to a few friends of mine. These are people who can get pretty shitfaced every night and still function at work. A few are teachers who taught the same subject for 10-15 years. I mean, US history does not change all that does it? 

I appreciate the recommendation. I love to read so it is not a chore. 

[ztejas 43411]

13 minutes ago, gasman said:

I was never in a haze for days. I had plenty of days where I did not drink at all. I probably drank a lot less than others here or some non-alcoholic heavy drinkers. A lot of people may simply consider me a problem or heavy drinker. My career was fine. My health was fine. Etc. What makes me an alcoholic is that once I had that first drink, most times I lost the ability to control how much I would consume after that. Not every time, but usually. I would enter plenty of evenings planning on one or two and invariably end up drunk. I didn't intend to, but somehow, there I was again. I may be one of those who the Big Book refers to as feeling the first nip of the wringer, but I have no doubt that things were not going to improve. My list of "I haven't done that yet" was getting smaller and smaller. Sitting here with almost 4 years of sobriety (moment of extreme gratitude....) I still can't even imagine having just one drink. There is simply no way for me to be able to successfully moderate once I have one. 

I think there are a lot of alcoholics like you where the ability to either pick up or not pick up the first drink isn't really the issue. The impossible part is finding control or power after taking that first drink. 

This was something else that came up last night - I am not powerless over taking that first drink or making the decision to not drink. At least not while I'm working my program. But as soon as that first one goes down we are right back to step 1 (literally, here) and all bets are off. 

(But that is my interpretation of the first step - and a different interpretation than the one I had coming in. I used to think powerless meant "I am incapable of not drinking". There are plenty of people in AA that might disagree with my sentiment)

Edited November 19, 2020 by ztejas

[DallasHorn26 586]

27 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I think there are a lot of alcoholics like you where the ability to either pick up or not pick up the first drink isn't really the issue. The impossible part is finding control or power after taking that first drink. 

This was something else that came up last night - I am not powerless over taking that first drink or making the decision to not drink. At least not while I'm working my program. But as soon as that first one goes down we are right back to step 1 (literally, here) and all bets are off. 

(But that is my interpretation of the first step - and a different interpretation than the one I had coming in. I used to think powerless meant "I am incapable of not drinking". There are plenty of people in AA that might disagree with my sentiment)

Probably describes most of us. I could not drink when I needed to (at work or when I had my kids, certain events), but once that first drink goes in, all bets are off until I'm passed out, cut off, or out of money. Last Call was the absolute worse phrase I could hear and would send me into a panic.

 

[hullabelew 3723]

I used to thank my bartenders for cutting me off because I damn sure couldn't do it most nights.  

[InkaUtexas 25861]

Spoke to my therapist. Did not realize she was also certified as an abuse counselor. Told her about recent patterns, my history, etc. She was also my therapist during and after my divorce so she knew a lot about me from a few years ago. 

 As we discussed everything her opinion was pretty interesting. She said examine the why as well as the what actions. This is going to be an interesting adventure to start, and after my conversation with her I am excited to start it. First round of Topo Chico is on me 

 

[TexArcher 37763]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

I think there are a lot of alcoholics like you where the ability to either pick up or not pick up the first drink isn't really the issue. The impossible part is finding control or power after taking that first drink. 

Absolutely.

I've known people in the program who had a choice about the first drink.  They didn't have a choice about all the ones after that.  They could routinely go a day or two or five without a drink, but if they had one, they were going all the way.  They seem to have been born without an off switch.

Then there are alcoholics like me: I was born without an off switch or an on switch.  I drank every day, as many hours as I could without it interfering with my ability to hold down a job.  By the time I was 31 or 32, that last part no longer mattered, either.  I was blacking out for hours every night.  I used to get up and check my phone and see 90-minute phone calls with people in other cities, or the girl I was seeing, that I had no recollection of.  I'd text her something gentle to find out if she was pissed, lol.  By the end, my alcohol routine was a half gallon of cheap vodka and a 6-pack of good beer.  I replaced them every other day.

It's important to remember that alcoholism is a progressive disease.  I started out in college as a daily pothead who binge drank on the weekends.  I ended up stumbling into an AA meeting at 36 because I knew that if I didn't, I literally would not make it to 40.

Random unsolicited advice follows:

My sponsor once pointed out that people who aren't alcoholics don't sit around and wonder if they're alcoholics.  If you're concerned about yourself, you're probably right to be.  I think that extends to friends and loved ones, too.  If you're concerned about them, you're probably right to be, and it's probably going to get worse.  If you're ever going to say something, and that is a deeply personal choice, sooner is probably better than later.  And if you're ever going to ask for help yourself, sooner is always better than later.

Edited November 19, 2020 by TexArcher

[BearSchlong 8083]

In my 22 years of alcoholic drinking I rarely drank before 5pm, and I didn't have many blackouts. For the first 20 of them I usually only drank a few nights a week, and often went weeks without.  I remember with stunning clarity the last several months of my drinking, followed by an abrupt and painful separation from alcohol.  Consequences - the 5% of the time when I was Mr. Hyde obliterated the 95% of the time I was an ok guy.

Normally, I sit and read the book with my pigeons, just like my sponsor did with me. And when we get to working with others, their job is to go find a new guy and repeat the process.  Finished that chapter last night with superstar sponsee - It's not hard, because he's living at the halfway house, plenty of new guys walking through the front door.  Time for him to carry the message.  He gets it, and I think he's gonna do really well - partly because his background as a CFB player and coach.  He understands the concept of reps AND recruiting.

Just had dinner with a sponsee coming off his umpeenth relapse.  30 yrs old, 5 months in inpatient rehab over the last 2 years.  10 days ago he left a meeting and on the way home stopped off and bought a handle of vodka, ultimately went through 3 handles in 5 days, followed by 3 days of awful sickness, then he called me asking to meet.

This is my first time to sponsor him, though I've been reaching my hand out to him in the rooms for the last 5 years. Tonight, over plates of enchiladas, we looked at page 24 and set his sobriety date and discussed how to get from the meeting to home without stopping for a handle.  I've got no magic sponsor hocus pocus for relapsers. I just try to be available, patient, and kind if they reach out to me.

Fascinating seeing how some people capitulate and recover, and others just never seem to run out of plans.  Pride and ego, man.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

8 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Super low cost of living, super high acceptance of heavy drinking.

You wouldn't believe how powerful a pull that would be if it were put into plain English for active drunks coast to coast. 

[Al_4_ISU 12451]

You wouldn't believe how powerful a pull that would be if it were put into plain English for active drunks coast to coast. 

I’m not above a cheap scheme to diversify the local economy.

[ztejas 43411]

1 hour ago, BearSchlong said:

In my 22 years of alcoholic drinking I rarely drank before 5pm, and I didn't have many blackouts. For the first 20 of them I usually only drank a few nights a week, and often went weeks without.  I remember with stunning clarity the last several months of my drinking, followed by an abrupt and painful separation from alcohol.  Consequences - the 5% of the time when I was Mr. Hyde obliterated the 95% of the time I was an ok guy.

Normally, I sit and read the book with my pigeons, just like my sponsor did with me. And when we get to working with others, their job is to go find a new guy and repeat the process.  Finished that chapter last night with superstar sponsee - It's not hard, because he's living at the halfway house, plenty of new guys walking through the front door.  Time for him to carry the message.  He gets it, and I think he's gonna do really well - partly because his background as a CFB player and coach.  He understands the concept of reps AND recruiting.

Just had dinner with a sponsee coming off his umpeenth relapse.  30 yrs old, 5 months in inpatient rehab over the last 2 years.  10 days ago he left a meeting and on the way home stopped off and bought a handle of vodka, ultimately went through 3 handles in 5 days, followed by 3 days of awful sickness, then he called me asking to meet.

This is my first time to sponsor him, though I've been reaching my hand out to him in the rooms for the last 5 years. Tonight, over plates of enchiladas, we looked at page 24 and set his sobriety date and discussed how to get from the meeting to home without stopping for a handle.  I've got no magic sponsor hocus pocus for relapsers. I just try to be available, patient, and kind if they reach out to me.

Fascinating seeing how some people capitulate and recover, and others just never seem to run out of plans.  Pride and ego, man.

Thanks for all of your service. Sounds like your wife does a lot of the Lord's work, too. Y'all must be good people (besides the Baylor crap).

[BearSchlong 8083]

Thanks for all of your service. Sounds like your wife does a lot of the Lord's work, too. Y'all must be good people (besides the Baylor crap).

Thanks. From time to time at certain events, worlds collide, like why is my CPS caseworker kissing the dude from my AA meeting? Or why does the CPS lady know so much about my drinking and drugging.
Oh, thats right, her husband is one of those guys.

[RPM 26316]

I drink more than the average bear, but I like pickanic baskets, if you know what I mean. I've learned to stay home if I'm drinking because otherwise is a stupid invite to enter "the system" and have your life relegated. Is drinking alone at home a good thing? I say yes. Surly gives me the opportunity to socially interact AND be inebriatedly  inappropriate all at the same time. A win/win if you were to say. It's like when I installed an office fridge next to my computer desk. It just made things more streamlined.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

4 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

I’m not above a cheap scheme to diversify the local economy.

Not sure about diversifying, but sales at bars and liquor stores would increase, and it would keep jails and hospitals humming along. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 hours ago, RPM said:

I drink more than the average bear, but I like pickanic baskets, if you know what I mean. I've learned to stay home if I'm drinking because otherwise is a stupid invite to enter "the system" and have your life relegated. Is drinking alone at home a good thing? I say yes. Surly gives me the opportunity to socially interact AND be inebriatedly  inappropriate all at the same time. A win/win if you were to say. It's like when I installed an office fridge next to my computer desk. It just made things more streamlined.

I don't mean to pick on you RPM, but social media is a very bad thing for drunks for some of the reasons you cited. You can have "company" while solitary and you can always find someone out there drunker than you to make you feel better about yourself. Or you can convince yourself that everyone is as shitfaced as you are daily, most definitely especially hanging out on these boards. Horfans / Shag / Surly is an almighty enabler if you want it to be. 

[hullabelew 3723]

19 hours ago, Kennythetiger said:

Takes all kinds.  During my heaviest drinking days, I was regularly drinking four straight nights, and often the weekend mornings, too.  But hell, when I finally broke down and walked into a meeting, I was only drinking one night a month, and had for several months in a row.  It was all the other shit that was in my head and in my life- I felt like I was going to have a nervous breakdown, and I knew from Bear, Reagan, Swandered, Twice, et al that a meeting was a good place to be.  I was blessed enough to slide by the addiction issue, but as I stated in our local meeting the other night, I could fuck-up more in one night of drinking than most non-alcoholics could in the rest of the month.  I felt comfortable sitting in a meeting chair when I realized that a lot of my damage wasn't necessarily done by active things that I had done by drinking, but by the wonderful things that I was willing to give up in trade for the opportunity to drink.  I didn't even have to physically drink- I just didn't want the opportunity to do so to leave.  

Holy shit.  I've been trying to put this into words for a long time now and haven't been able to string them together.  Thanks @Kennythetiger

[BearSchlong 8083]

Ayep. Opportunity costs, if you will.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

20 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

The problem is that the second he's free of responsibility, he just gets after it. 

I started like this, in college basically.

16 hours ago, TexArcher said:

I drank every day, as many hours as I could without it interfering with my ability to hold down a job.  By the time I was 31 or 32, that last part no longer mattered, either. 

And it turned into this.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

18 hours ago, TexArcher said:

It's important to remember that alcoholism is a progressive disease.  I started out in college as a daily pothead who binge drank on the weekends.  I ended up stumbling into an AA meeting at 36 because I knew that if I didn't, I literally would not make it to 40.

I was similar. The stuff that I told myself "well at least I don't/at least I didn't" when I first tried to get sober at 30 came and went in a flash. Well, at least I don't drink in the mornings turned into the entire point of my existence is to drink, there's no reason to put arbitrary limits on it like "daylight" or "morning" or "not knowing what time it even is". That reflexive drink on waking, the point where you could no longer keep your eyes closed to try sleeping, that's the closest I have come to hell. 

The movie Leaving Las Vegas came out when I was about twenty. At the time, I interpreted Nicolas Cage's portrayal of alcoholism as just over-the-top goofball acting, no different than his Southern accent in Con Air, because who in the fuck would or could drink like that? By 2017/2018, the behaviors that seemed so ridiculous and alien in 1996 looked a lot more familiar. But that realization wasn't enough to slow me down for even a second. The only thing that stopped me was thinking about what my daughter's life might be like if I succeeded in drinking myself to death before her third birthday. That made me willing enough to try a real inpatient rehab, and it kind of flowed downhill from there-- I was just barely willing enough at every stage of the process to say "this is probably bullshit, this probably won't work, but I'm going to try it for her". Miraculously, every inflection point where I shrugged and just tried the next right thing for my little girl's sake has worked out, and eventually I really did achieve the upward momentum to rely on the program and my Higher Power first and foremost anytime I was challenged-- I have grown to where I want to be a sane, happy, healthy, sober person for me and me alone first, and I am then able to enjoy the blessings of being that person for all the people around me. 

My ON and OFF switches were both broken. They're still broken. The grace of God is the only thing keeping them in the correct position. 

[BearSchlong 8083]

Something that's been on my mind. . .apologies in advance for the wall of text.

When did you folks realize that you actually wanted to stop drinking?

Late one evening a few months prior to my sobriety date I found myself in the kitchen at my GF's apartment finishing off a bottle and genuflecting on my situation - the conscious thought that "Maybe I'm an alcoholic, hell I probably am, but if so then I'm resigned to my fate, and if this is all life has to offer, then it just SUCKS."  This is probably a composite of many evenings, but as I share my experience it's encapsulated into that singular anecdote.

The idea of quitting still seemed so foreign to me - I certainly couldn't visualize it.  My enthusiastic participation in the mental obsession was waning, but I honestly can't remember it being supplanted with a desire to quit drinking, and I certainly never made an attempt.

Even my family's intervention after I had sufficiently recovered from my car wreck was ass-backwards - "I can't tell you you're alcoholic. But I can say that your life is very unmanageable. There is an AA meeting tonight if you want to go."  Until that moment, I still blamed the woman I was divorcing for ALL of my problems. But something clicked, and I went to a meeting that night, and the next day, and the next. . .for the last 9.9 years.

When I walked into that room, I knew 8/10 of the people there. But they were my Dad's sober buddies, I mean, I'm really glad Dad got sober, but those were his guys. I sat down and introduced myself as an alcoholic - with equal parts skepticism and relief. I just knew I was safe.  Honestly - and this is a little bit embarrassing to admit (pride and ego anyone?) I remember being a little concerned that people were going to think that I was just trying to be like my father, that my own experience wasn't authentic enough. (Untreated alcoholism much?)

So successful treatment of the underlying causes and conditions (Character defects) is indicated by abstinence.

Still, I never actually tried to stop drinking.

I just found a superior solution.

postscript - y'all have heard me say since all the way on the shag that my alcoholism is defined by consequences.  A more accurate synonym is "Loss." Which includes my earlier comment of opportunity costs, and when greatly expanded includes loss of everything worthwhile. (Where have I read that before).

Time is a flat circle.  Do I want my life defined by life or love? (God = love, btw)

 

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by BearSchlong

[Celery Man 20931]

I never ever wanted to stop drinking. This feels like a semi-smart assed response to your question (or the obvious thing we all feel that skirts the actual question), but yeah - I *always* wanted to keep drinking, but at some point knew I wouldn't be able to (and live). And then the struggle is between how much I want to drink, and how much I want the bad stuff to end. And the dynamic there where you're sweating and not drinking thinking of the big picture bad stuff ending, and then you give in and start to drink because you can no longer hold out on the immediate bad stuff that is happening that can be solved with alcohol.

I started drinking senior year of high school, and had a blast freshman year of college. I think the feeling that I was an alcoholic was creeping in freshman year, but definitely knew that I had a problem sophomore year. I don't think I admitted internally that i was an alcoholic at that point, but i thought "this is a bit of a problem now but is fine, but I'm having a hard time stopping and if I don't stop then later on I will be an actual alcoholic".

I had a ton of anxiety around sleep - I couldn't really sleep without being drunk, and so any kind of... early morning thing, or situation where I can't have time alone at the end of the evening to get properly shitfaced, that pushed the problem in my face. I played in a band, there were times when we were going to spend a month on the road and that was anxiety inducing for me, and i'd try and reign it in before that. Which is definitely an alcoholic thing - I need to quit drinking so much because I'm not going to be able to get hammered enough when I'm on the road with my band.

I dunno - I think I always kicked the "need to quit drinking entirely because I'm an alcoholic" can down the road and tried to mitigate medium term stuff, and just gradually it got more and more out of hand, and then I went off the deep end and I didn't think I'd ever realistically be able to stop. And that's when I'm thinking more about driving my car into a wall or disappearing and living in a trailer full of booze in Nebraska or something. And then crisis, hospital, rehab, sobriety.

[Kennythetiger 9375]

3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

before disappearing and living in a trailer full of booze in Nebraska or something. 

I thought we recently decided that Al’s hometown in Iowa was the place to be. 

[Celery Man 20931]

yeah that absolutely would have swayed my opinion, plus i had a really good time in Iowa City that started at.... the Yacht Club, snaked through every bar in town, and ended up in some girl's apartment

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

WELCOME TO IOWA

Got the shakes? We do too. Welcome home.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Sorry, but here...

 

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/miley-cyrus-fell-off-amid-pandemic-two-weeks-sober

[Jerry Callo 8698]

8 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

Sorry, but here...

 

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/miley-cyrus-fell-off-amid-pandemic-two-weeks-sober

I'm very disappointed . . . that she has a Metallica cover album in the works.  Glad she was able to get back on the wagon, though.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

9 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

Sorry, but here...

 

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/miley-cyrus-fell-off-amid-pandemic-two-weeks-sober

tourist

[BearSchlong 8083]

Yeah.

[Celery Man 20931]

Happy Thanksgiving ya hardheaded fucks. Despite everything, we can all be thankful for another day and a bunch of people who are ready to help.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

Grateful for 929 days of sobriety and all of you fucks too

[JohnnyRage 1617]

I pray.

I don’t even know to whom I’m praying, and not knowing doesn’t bother me in the least.