I'm An Alcoholic

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

... or if that him, her, or it is even tuned in. It doesn’t matter. It’s a meditative process that helps me live

[Reagan1k 3,024]

Yeah - the Who, Where, & How is all above my pay grade. 

There is something in control out there, it isn't me, and my job is simply to check in on the regular.

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

36 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Yeah - the Who, Where, & How is all above my pay grade. 

There is something in control out there, it isn't me, and my job is simply to check in on the regular.

I'm truly envious of this outlook. I'm not unhappy in the least, and getting sober has brought me happiness that I didn't know I had, but the above is something I can't accept for whatever reason. 

 

[Reagan1k 3,024]

I get that and I'll admit it was tough.  I had huge issues with the higher power concept and had all my thinking convoluted confusing religion with spirituality.  I felt the need to believe what other did (or appeared to) but I couldn't do it intellectually.  Huge internal struggle most of my life......

What helped me turn the corner was my sponsor asking me a few questions......Was I powerless over anything?  I hesitated and he said, that it was evident I was powerless over whiskey and I had to agree.  He then asked me if I was could stop the tide from going in and out at the beach.  With those answered, he asked IF, since I acknowledged whiskey and the ocean were more powerful than I, was it possible there are other forces more powerful as well.  

When I agreed it was possible, he had me stop right there and said that was enough.....willingness to believe.  That's where it started for me, and sometimes has to restart for me when I get off kilter. 

That said, I also know some people in AA who in whatever fashion they choose, do not really have a higher power that they acknowledge.  It works for them and they're happy and sober so who am I to say what's right or wrong.  The goal isn't to ace some compliance test.  The goal is to live soberly; happy, joyous and free...... so whatever works sounds like a good plan to me.

 

[BearSchlong 8,112]

How do you know what you don't know?

And to your point, I'd rather be happy than "right", whatever that is.

If I have no expectations I can't help but be delighted.

Edited December 8, 2020 by BearSchlong

[Clintonaldo 2,576]

On 12/8/2020 at 5:56 PM, BearSchlong said:

How do you know what you don't know?

And to your point, I'd rather be happy than "right", whatever that is.

If I have no expectations I can't help but be delighted.

That reminds of the time I was telling someone a future scenario (politics) and he said I didn’t know that. I said you don’t know what I don’t know. 

[BearSchlong 8,112]

Every morning I click on facebook so I can wish people happy birthday.  That usually takes up my 5 minute daily FB allowance.

Anyway, everytime I do this I have this self dialogue in the spirit of Jeff Foxworthy. . ."If you're wishing your FB friends happy birthday and you have to check their profile to make sure they haven't died. . .you might be an alcoholic/addict."

Or old.

You'd think there's an algorithm that would break out "in memorium" from "happy birthday" 

 

[Reagan1k 3,024]

Spent the day cleaning up around my hunting cabin because the weather sucks for doing much else.  Decided to flip my mattress - you know- get another 15 years out of it.

Wouldn’t ya know it.  Under the mattress was a 2/3 empty bottle of Beam in that convenient liter plastic traveler (90% of those have to be sold to our kind).

Had mixed emotions.  So very grateful  I don’t have to come to at 4am and take a pull.  A little disappointed in my old self that I left a man behind.  I was always pretty good at inventory control and waste disposal so that’s out of character.

Regardless, I poured it out and had that gratifying feeling like I had moved on from a toxic ex girlfriend who’s now a train wreck.

[Not a cat 5,699]

For a couple of years after my alcoholic ex wife moved out I'd find empty bottles hidden in the strangest places.  She was a resourceful one, when properly motivated.

[Reagan1k 3,024]

Yeah-  I clearly haven’t thoroughly cleaned the cabin in a while bc my last drink was over 5 years ago.   That bottle had been hiding under my head all these years. 

[hullabelew 3,724]

Golf bag, back of amps, inside old guitar cases, were three surprise finds for me.

[BTW 370]

I have questions and this seems like the venue, if not, please let me know and I'll move along ...

Short intro: my business partner whom I've sat in an office with for the last decade is currently in a 30 day in-patient treatment program and I'm looking for some info on how to support him when he gets back.

Background: I think he's known he had a problem for a while because in the spring/early summer he hired an addiction counselor and did a 40 day dry spell.  The whole time he claimed it was temporary and he just needed to get it under control but he was never planning to stop forever.  Then this fall he went back to drinking but it was supposed to be "in more moderation."  Then the day after Thanksgiving he ends up in the hospital with pancreatitis, which was bad, but according to the doctors, what put him in the ICU for nearly a week was the withdrawal.  He had a seizure, was hallucinating, confused, delirious, moody, and couldn't sleep.  After he got over that, the docs said he was lucky to be alive, so he took it to heart and 2 days after getting home, checked himself into the previously mentioned 30 day program.

Questions:

1) I don't know how to talk about it with our work associates (vendors, customers, partners, etc).  When I've told a few of them frankly what happened, it feels like gossip and it's not my story to tell.  But I don't know what to say when they ask about him.

2) I've already taken the beers we kept in our work fridge home.  I was thinking about re-stocking it with some NA beers before he gets back, but I don't know if that's a good idea or not.

3) Should I go to some Al-anon meetings?  Would it help me to read the blue book? I really want him to succeed, and I want to be as prepared as possible to help.

4) We do a lot of business at Happy Hours and sometimes boozy dinners, etc.  How do I handle that sort of thing moving forward?

TIA for any input, and like I said, if this isn't the venue, please point me to the appropriate place.

 

EDIT to say, I just realized my avatar is highly inappropriate for this thread, no offense meant by it. (but this is surly, and we're all a bunch of assholes)

Edited December 14, 2020 by BTW

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

34 minutes ago, BTW said:

 

1) I don't know how to talk about it with our work associates (vendors, customers, partners, etc).  When I've told a few of them frankly what happened, it feels like gossip and it's not my story to tell.  But I don't know what to say when they ask about him.

2) I've already taken the beers we kept in our work fridge home.  I was thinking about re-stocking it with some NA beers before he gets back, but I don't know if that's a good idea or not.

3) Should I go to some Al-anon meetings?  Would it help me to read the blue book? I really want him to succeed, and I want to be as prepared as possible to help.

4) We do a lot of business at Happy Hours and sometimes boozy dinners, etc.  How do I handle that sort of thing moving forward?

TIA for any input, and like I said, if this isn't the venue, please point me to the appropriate place.

 

EDIT to say, I just realized my avatar is highly inappropriate for this thread, no offense meant by it. (but this is surly, and we're all a bunch of assholes)

All you are going to get are opinions, and they're all worth what you're paying for them.

1) It's not your responsibility to tell anyone anything. A simple "he is taking some time away from work for personal reasons" is all the explanation anyone is owed. If they press, you can defer them to him-- "he can tell you more if he wants to, when he returns". He can then choose to be as forthcoming as he wants, but what he'll learn over time is that he will intuitively know when it's the right time to broach the subject. He doesn't have to come out of rehab and yell "I'M AN ALCOHOLIC" like Michael Scott declaring bankruptcy. He should not feel obligated to "come clean" to anyone, until the appropriate time and place (making amends, helping someone by sharing his story).

2) Clearing out the beer was good. NA beer is not good. Stock it with Topo Chico or whatever.  

3) Maybe and yes. Al-Anon is not really about helping recovering alcoholics. At least, not directly. It is about helping the Al-Anons break their codependence, which often times takes the form of enabling the addiction in the first place. Al-Anon teaches you (general you) how to accept that someone's alcoholism is not your fault, not your responsibility, and not something you can control, and how to detach lovingly. That indirectly helps the alcoholic by letting them experience consequences and understand that they and they alone are responsible for desiring and working towards sobriety. 

4) That kind of depends. Right out of rehab, boozy get togethers probably aren't a good idea, but I don't know how revolted he'll be by the idea of relapse or of taking a drink. This is one thing you do need to address directly with him. If possible, he needs these to be optional until he's got some confidence in his sobriety and I do NOT mean the "I just finished 30 days of rehab and I'm free and I feel like a million bucks!!!!!!!" confidence, I mean he's worked the steps and has a real program in place. 

[Jerry Callo 8,725]

1 hour ago, BTW said:

EDIT to say, I just realized my avatar is highly inappropriate for this thread, no offense meant by it. (but this is surly, and we're all a bunch of assholes)

Too many ice cubes in that glass for my tastes.

[Reagan1k 3,024]

3 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

Too many ice cubes in that glass for my tastes.

And the glass is way too small.....was there not a Sonic Route 44 Styrofoam option available? 

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

8 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

And the glass is way too small.....was there not a Sonic Route 44 Styrofoam option available? 

[Kennythetiger 9,456]

We care about your friend. We don’t give a fuck about your avatar. Swandered gave great answers. 

[TwiceHorn 31,534]

1 minute ago, Kennythetiger said:

We care about your friend. We don’t give a fuck about your avatar. Swandered gave great answers. 

Concur.

[BearSchlong 8,112]

@SwanderedTalentnailed it.

Just be prepared for any possible outcome and protect yourself accordingly.

And yes, read at least the first 164 pages of "Alcoholics Anonymous" - particularly the first 3 chapters which describe alcoholism.  Al Anon might not be a bad idea if his disease has caused conflict and resentment.

Keep us posted - because whatever happens, it's going to be interesting.

Also, the dwindling volume of liquor in your avatar is uphauling.

[ztejas 43,533]

2 hours ago, BTW said:

EDIT to say, I just realized my avatar is highly inappropriate for this thread, no offense meant by it. (but this is surly, and we're all a bunch of assholes)

[BearSchlong 8,112]

1234

[BTW 370]

Thanks @SwanderedTalent and @BearSchlong for the answers.

I know you lot have much bigger problems if a picture of a glass of whiskey is offensive, but I felt it was worth acknowledging.

As requested, I'll keep you updated.  He'll be there till the 2nd week in Jan so I expect it to be quiet through the holidays.

 

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

1) "He's on medical leave and working on his health. I'll tell him that you send your regards."

2) No, it's not a good idea. Anything else - mineral water, flavored carbonated water, root or ginger beer (non alcohol obviously), juices, soda. Let him stock it, he's a big boy.

3) Sure. Reading the big book may help your life more than you for his. It's all very compassionate of you, but It's not really your battle. Give him room to fight his.

4) Probably need to encourage him to sit these out for a while. At an uncertain certain point it really makes no difference anymore, other people drinking will have nothing to do with him in the sense that he wouldn't dare touch it and send his new life backwards (we hope).

 

You and your avatar are in the right place.

Edited December 15, 2020 by JohnnyRage

[BearSchlong 8,112]

Had dinner last night with a sponsee that's been sober since July 4.  His family's got issues, in that they cannot conceptualize the phenomenon of craving.  Every weekend they call him and beg him to come over to the house, "We will pick you up and drop you off, we stocked up on Heineken 0.0% for you if that's what you can drink. Why are you shunning us, Mijo?  Nothing bad can happen if you don't drive, and limit yourself to just a beer or 2.  You can drink like a man, we know you can"

I just sat across from him and listened and nodded and tried to not give him the Tommy Lee Jones Newspaper stare.

 

[TwiceHorn 31,534]

2 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Had dinner last night with a sponsee that's been sober since July 4.  His family's got issues, in that they cannot conceptualize the phenomenon of craving.  Every weekend they call him and beg him to come over to the house, "We will pick you up and drop you off, we stocked up on Heineken 0.0% for you if that's what you can drink. Why are you shunning us, Mijo?  Nothing bad can happen if you don't drive, and limit yourself to just a beer or 2.  You can drink like a man, we know you can"

I just sat across from him and listened and nodded and tried to not give him the Tommy Lee Jones Newspaper stare.

 

I might suspect that not only can they not comprehend craving, they're all a bunch of alcoholics themselves.

[Reagan1k 3,024]

Good point @TwiceHorn!  For the normal drinker, booze isn't the axis on which their world spins.

@BearSchlong  I'm interested as to what direction or experiential advice you gave???  That's such a tough one for the newly sober.

I'd be curious if they were also alcoholic, codependent, or perhaps both.  All that seems to come into play when the family or significant other isn't content that the drunk isn't drinking and instead is bringing it up and/or encouraging it.

[TwiceHorn 31,534]

11 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Good point @TwiceHorn!  For the normal drinker, booze isn't the axis on which their world spins.

@BearSchlong  I'm interested as to what direction or experiential advice you gave???  That's such a tough one for the newly sober.

I'd be curious if they were also alcoholic, codependent, or perhaps both.  All that seems to come into play when the family or significant other isn't content that the drunk isn't drinking and instead is bringing it up and/or encouraging it.

Accurate analysis, I think.

It has just been my experience that those with problems are threatened by the newly sober and tend to want to change them back, while those without problems, if anything, are ecstatic and oversolicitous about the newly sober.

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

I am also interested in what @BearSchlong told his sponsee. I know what I would say, short and simple: "for this program to work, you have to believe that whether you drink or not is life or death. If you do believe that, then you're basically risking death being around a bunch of people who are encouraging you to drink. And your alcoholic brain does not need any additional external stimulus to convince it drinking might be a good idea." 

I don't mean sever, but I would encourage him to limit in person contact to times and places where booze isn't involved... which may be harder with some families than others.

[TwiceHorn 31,534]

1 minute ago, SwanderedTalent said:

I am also interested in what @BearSchlong told his sponsee. I know what I would say, short and simple: "for this program to work, you have to believe that whether you drink or not is life or death. If you do believe that, then you're basically risking death being around a bunch of people who are encouraging you to drink. And your alcoholic brain does not need any additional external stimulus to convince it drinking might be a good idea." 

I don't mean sever, but I would encourage him to limit in person contact to times and places where booze isn't involved... which may be harder with some families than others.

I agree.  I would suggest that once recovery takes hold, he will be largely immune to such influences, and maybe use it to incentivize working the steps.

But in early recovery, that gets a big cuidado amigo.

[Jerry Callo 8,725]

It's sad.  It sounds like some of the family just want him back and are not trying to sabotage him.  I would guess visiting some family members, one-on-one, is less dangerous to sobriety situations might be the best way to test the waters (breakfast, lunch, church, etc). 

My good intentioned, yet less than aware, My in denial grandmother insisted that my mother's problems were due to the limes in her drinks and not the alcohol. Thank god, mom has stayed sober since the mid-80s.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Jerry Callo
more factually accurate

[ztejas 43,533]

2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I might suspect that not only can they not comprehend craving, they're all a bunch of alcoholics themselves.

I have functioning alcoholics and heavy-drinking non-alcoholics on my bingo card.

[Kennythetiger 9,456]

1 hour ago, Jerry Callo said:

It's sad.  It sounds like some of the family just want him back and are not trying to sabotage him.  I would guess visiting some family members, one-on-one, is less dangerous to sobriety situations might be the best way to test the waters (breakfast, lunch, church, etc). 

My good intentioned, yet less than aware, My in denial grandmother insisted that my mother's problems were due to the limes in her drinks and not the alcohol. Thank god, mom has stayed sober since the mid-80s.

I knew it. Those fucking limes got me, too. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8,349]

16 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

I knew it. Those fucking limes got me, too. 

Yeah you'd see a special on limes at HEB, like 3 for a dollar or something, and that meant you had to go to Spec's and get a fifth of tequila. Cheap limes will do that to a man. 

[BearSchlong 8,112]

Hate to disappoint, but it's simply uninformed machismo.  Large hispanic family, Dad's a successful restauranteur, mom's his chief enabler.

Lots of get togethers, lots of people slamming beers/shots and carrying on.  Probably a few hard drinkers in the mix.

They go home to bed, and that's when my guy starts making phone calls and looking for other stuff.  And then jumps in his company logo-emblazened vehicle and t-bones another car and gets arrested for DWI.  Doesn't learn his lesson and repeats the exact same scenario a month later.

And can't believe that the judge might actually sentence him to county. To be locked up!  A good guy like him!!??

My advice is for him to give them a copy of Alcoholics Anonymous and ask them to read it.

Edited December 15, 2020 by BearSchlong

[pch 1,261]

11 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

 

I just sat across from him and listened and nodded and tried to not give him the Tommy Lee Jones Newspaper stare.

 

I'm stealing that one-it says so much without saying a word don't it?

[pch 1,261]

[ztejas 43,533]

7 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

They go home to bed, and that's when my guy starts making phone calls and looking for other stuff. 

Ugh. The audacity of some folks. Why can't he just have a few drinks, brush his teeth, read some Updike and get to bed at a decent hour?

[GhostOfTomJoad 9,351]

A friend of mine has confessed to me that he recently did something he never imagined he'd be capable of doing: he pled with his son not to marry his fiancee next month. She's in her late 20s (his son is in his early 30s) and is a functioning alcoholic. They had to cancel the planned couple's wedding shower scheduled for early October at the last minute because she went on such a bender the night before she ended up in the hospital with acute pancreatitis for almost a week. She was touch and go for 48 hours. This is her 3rd bout of pancreatitis, and 2nd since they've been a couple (18 months).

The doctor told her drinking again will likely kill her. She's been sober since the last event, and he no longer keeps alcohol in their apartment (but still drinks with his friends; he's ex-Navy and his running buddies are all in their late 20s - early 30s and still living the barfly lifestyle). The son's a good enough guy but also the family fuck up who keeps getting bailed out by his parents even though he'd benefit from learning a few hard lessons in life. Hell, he was discharged from the Navy due to getting a DWI and was 30 before he actually started getting his shit together & working a real job. 

The son thinks he can fix her. He's afraid that if he doesn't marry her she'll go right back to drinking & it will kill her. She isn't using any type of program or therapy to stay dry, she just went cold turkey. He points to her two months of sobriety as proof that she's got this licked. So he told his dad to kiss his ass, he loves her, & there's no stopping their wedding. The wedding that my buddy and his wife paid for (including her engagement ring) that will be held in two weeks. In Las Vegas. What could go wrong?

Sorry if this is an inappropriate used of this thread. I hope random venting isn't an unforgivable sin in here. I've had plenty of alcoholics in my family to see exactly what my friend sees: his son about to make a massive mistake that will result in pain & misery. 

It's a helluva disease.

[TwiceHorn 31,534]

13 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

A friend of mine has confessed to me that he recently did something he never imagined he'd be capable of doing: he pled with his son not to marry his fiancee next month. She's in her late 20s (his son is in his early 30s) and is a functioning alcoholic. They had to cancel the planned couple's wedding shower scheduled for early October at the last minute because she went on such a bender the night before she ended up in the hospital with acute pancreatitis for almost a week. She was touch and go for 48 hours. This is her 3rd bout of pancreatitis, and 2nd since they've been a couple (18 months).

The doctor told her drinking again will likely kill her. She's been sober since the last event, and he no longer keeps alcohol in their apartment (but still drinks with his friends; he's ex-Navy and his running buddies are all in their late 20s - early 30s and still living the barfly lifestyle). The son's a good enough guy but also the family fuck up who keeps getting bailed out by his parents even though he'd benefit from learning a few hard lessons in life. Hell, he was discharged from the Navy due to getting a DWI and was 30 before he actually started getting his shit together & working a real job. 

The son thinks he can fix her. He's afraid that if he doesn't marry her she'll go right back to drinking & it will kill her. She isn't using any type of program or therapy to stay dry, she just went cold turkey. He points to her two months of sobriety as proof that she's got this licked. So he told his dad to kiss his ass, he loves her, & there's no stopping their wedding. The wedding that my buddy and his wife paid for (including her engagement ring) that will be held in two weeks. In Las Vegas. What could go wrong?

Sorry if this is an inappropriate used of this thread. I hope random venting isn't an unforgivable sin in here. I've had plenty of alcoholics in my family to see exactly what my friend sees: his son about to make a massive mistake that will result in pain & misery. 

It's a helluva disease.

It's appropriate.  Sorry for the stress it's causing.

It is conceivable that she is just a heavy drinker and the medical warning will keep her sober without insanity and relapse. But it's pretty unlikely given that this is her third bout with what is usually considered an extremely uncomfortable disease in pancreatitis.  Hard to believe she's functional in other aspects of life, but stranger things.

The "boy" is just going to have to make his own mistakes on this one, I'm afraid.

[BearSchlong 8,112]

Perfect use of the thread, @GhostOfTomJoad.

Predictably, Twicehorn's take is accurate and understated.

She's probably fucked, and your buddy's son is in for a world of hurt.  If she's alcoholic, by definition that means she is powerless over her drinking.  By extension, thinking he's got proxy power over her disease is just plainly playing God.

Your friend is 100% justified in detaching with love.  The fact that family members at least twice removed are experiencing consequences of her drinking is exhibit A of why it's a contagious family disease.

Still, experience takes experience - but tell your buddy that the professionals advise setting rigid boundaries against dysfunction.

Edited December 21, 2020 by BearSchlong

[GhostOfTomJoad 9,351]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses, @BearSchlong and @TwiceHorn. There's certainly almost nothing I can do to help my friend other than be a supportive sounding board when he needs one. He's resided himself to the fact that all he & is wife can do is pray for the best & hope for a miracle. And yes, it's possible that she'll stay sober but I wouldn't take those odds. Up until about a year ago the only jobs she'd ever held were waitressing in bars or bartending. She's got a decade of that lifestyle in her blood. She's doing office work for a mom 'n pop business now which at least gets her out of the nothing but booze environment for 8 hours a day, but from what I understand the owner likes to keep a beer fridge well stocked in back & doesn't mind if people help themselves.

The thing is, my buddy & his wife didn't approve of their soon to be DIL even before they knew about her drinking. They weren't thrilled that she was a bartender (at the time) or her slutty country gal chic outfits she favors. Or that from a looks & figure department their son could do much better. The only upside she had over his past previous serious GFs is that she didn't already have kids. His wife has tried to polish some of her rough edges (like telling her she had to change her outfit for the engagement photos because ripped daisy duke style shorts & a tank top were not acceptable). The fiancee's dad lives in San Antonio & by all accounts is a nice, successful guy but he's basically decided that she's an adult & since she never took her up on his offer to pay for her college education but instead went to work in bars she's on her own. She has almost no relationship with her mother who lives nearby but is apparently nuttier than squirrel turds. 

And I'll admit that when I went on their The Knot site last night to order a wedding gift from their registry I had to laugh at how many of their wish list items were related to drinking. Because every young couple in a 900 square foot apartment need multiple sets of wine glasses, beer glasses, high and low balls, mixer sets, shakers, etc. The promising thing was seeing how almost all of those items were listed as 'still available' so people aren't enabling them at this point.

 

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

Alright, now we’re just going to have to need pics.

[DallasHorn26 586]

this song came up in my suggestions recently. I think it speaks well to the mindset I had and still have sometimes.

[ztejas 43,533]

[BearSchlong 8,112]

Thats a big one, good for you. Made my day to see that.

[TwiceHorn 31,534]

4 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Thats a big one, good for you. Made my day to see that.

Indeed.  Keep it up, ztejas.

[Kennythetiger 9,456]

Yep. Today is my favorite day of the year. You just made it even better. 

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

Merry Christmas A-holes!

[Herbie Hancock 7,375]

Inpatient rehab yesterday for my friend. No idea how long he’ll be there. I hope having to spend Christmas away from his family and friends is the rock bottom he needs to hit, because he’s this close to losing his job. Admitted to the ICU last Tuesday with extreme hallucinations and seizures. Blood, protein and sugar all in his urinalysis. His body is capable of recovery according to the doc, but it won’t last much longer at the rate he’s continuing to push it. He had a moment of clarity when myself and another friend were taking him to the hospital. He broke down, sobbed and begged out loud for God to end this. If you’re the praying type, please keep my friend Mike in your prayers.

[SwanderedTalent 5,761]

you gotta watch those emojis carefully, I was trying to give Herbie Hancock what I thought was a thumbs up and realized it was a middle finger. That would have been a perplexing reaction to his last post