I'm An Alcoholic

[Celery Man 20966]

Merry Christmas you degenerates

[Celery Man 20966]

An alcoholic Christmas story from Craig Ferguson, after a bit of talking about taking potshots at people in distress.

Powerful Christmas wishes for you lurkers. It's a tough hurdle to get over but you can do it, we can help out, and there's plenty of life joy and happiness on the other side.

 

[ztejas 43475]

13 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Thats a big one, good for you. Made my day to see that.

 

13 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Indeed.  Keep it up, ztejas.

 

3 hours ago, Kennythetiger said:

Yep. Today is my favorite day of the year. You just made it even better. 

Thanks guys. Always humbling to be reminded of what it means to others. For me it really is just another day clean until they hand me another plastic chip. Not that it isn't meaningful - it's just not something I concern myself with. Our house manager (sober living) asked me what my sobriety date was the other day and I had to turn to the calendar to figure it out. He thought it was strange I didn't know it off the top of my head. I guess it just isn't something I think about - it really is one day at a time for me. I wake up and do what I can to keep things moving in the right direction, and if I have a shitty day or feel like drinking I just sit with it and let it pass and try it again in the morning. 

Everytime I want to drink I remind myself what is going to happen if I do, and that has yet to be better than what I have going on right now. Maybe someday I won't feel that way and I'll take a drink and throw some time away, but if that's the case then I now know what to do to get back in and try it again. In some ways, the longer I stay clean the easier it is to convince myself that I don't need any more experience - despite those experiences being further and further behind me. I suppose that's an effect of my life getting better and better - my highs and lows slowly but surely being a little bit higher.

There were a few cornerstones of my home group in attendance last night despite it being a small meeting which felt good. Not that I'm doing it for them - but just like the reaction in here I know it means something to them to see newcomers come through and stick with it. 

I'll end with an ism that I heard last night from an old timer that I enjoyed -

"Everybody wants to go to heaven but no one wants to fuckin die."

[TwiceHorn 31495]

Yeah I think it's not quite healthy to be obsessed with sobriety dates and time sober.  Totally fine to celebrate.  Or not.  Either way.  As long as you aren't white knuckling until the next chip.

[pch 1259]

7am zoom meeting today from the May 25th Daily Reflection on progressive gratitude.  The unique paradox that in order to keep the gift that keeps on giving you have to give it away spoke to me once again.  I remembered the first meeting I attended back in 1993 and all of the long term sobriety that was sitting around that table.  Each one of those folks shared what it was like, what happened, and what it is like now.  I heard the solution, but did not take the actions suggested until five years later.  The seed that was planted has been flowering for 22 years now and I gladly accept my responsibility to pay it back to each newcomer in our meetings and in service at local shelters where we take meetings.  With each opportunity to help I remember how much it meant to me when I was the newcomer that the members in the first meeting spoke of a solution to a life that truly was unmanageable.  I love you guys and there's not a damn thing you can do about it!

[Reagan1k 3024]

Spent the 26th and today making some calls to other drunks and checking on them.  Two guys that had fallen out during the last few months have quit again; committed to attending our meetings that start back live tomorrow. 

Both mentioned that others and I had continued to check in with them even after we knew they were off the wagon.  They mentioned what an impact that had on them and reinforced / reminded me about carrying the message to the still suffering alcoholic. 

We never know which seeds we sow that one day take hold when the soil is right.  I've got to stay close to my core sober network, but what grows my sobriety is that 12th step and carrying the message.  I may never see a particular drunk get sober, but if I do the work the right way, they may recover down the road whether I'm there to witness it or not.....and it pushes that next drink father from me each time I do it.

I have got to do more of that - less self, more outreach.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

13 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Both mentioned that others and I had continued to check in with them even after we knew they were off the wagon.  They mentioned what an impact that had on them and reinforced / reminded me about carrying the message to the still suffering alcoholic. 

As someone who's relapsed multiple times in the past after 30-60-80-180 days, I can vouch for this. Let me first acknowledge that my sobriety is nobody's responsibility but my own, and I was always 100% responsible for my relapses. Having said that, it made a huge difference to have a sponsor who knew the difference between detaching with love but continuing to present the program as "always here when you decide you want it", and having a sponsor that treated me like a losing Publisher's Clearinghouse Sweepstakes certificate. 

[BearSchlong 8098]

My first sponsor relapsed the week after my 5th step (May 2011), and I eventually helped get him into the Humble House.  He's been sober for about 7 yrs, and is still a very close friend. To @SwanderedTalent's point, the day he told me I was going to have to get a new sponsor I took ownership and responsibility for my own program.  It was like "well, that sucks for you, but my stepwork was authentic, now onward" and found my current sponsor.

Started December with 4 new clean/sober sponsees, 1 blew up his life and is probably now homeless, 1 can't stay sober for more than a day or two, and 2 are sober and doing stepwork.  I always reach out to my relapsers with a "thinking of you, let me know how I can help" call or text and for the guys who actually want it I tell them "I will match your effort 100% exactly."  At any rate, I'm seeing the disease in all it's various stages.

My mom had hip surgery on Christmas Eve and I was dispensing her meds.  Saw her bottle of norcos and had the fleeting thought "she won't miss a few" - and then immediately called a sober friend and made plans to attend a meeting which I did yesterday morning.

3 weeks shy of 10 yrs sober and I can still have alcoholic/addict thoughts from time to time when in proximity to things I used to abuse.

Very glad to read page 61 as well as the previous 60.

Edited December 28, 2020 by BearSchlong

[hullabelew 3724]

"I will match your effort 100% exactly."

Thanks for this bit of brilliance.  I've been looking for a way to say this to one guy who called me for help, then has been hiding out.  I told him, "I'm here where you need me, but I'm not going to chase you down."  I like the way you said it.  

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

7 hours ago, hullabelew said:

"I'm here where you need me, but I'm not going to chase you down."  I like the way you said it.  

Both good, I like your way just fine

[BearSchlong 8098]

Congrats to my own Dad, 28 yrs sober today.

This is cool. I have a copy of an awful quality recording of him telling his story, would love to find a better version.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[EE2B 1565]

Is this it:

[BearSchlong 8098]

Thanks, that is awesome. Already digging on Clancy less than a minute in.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[Kennythetiger 9389]

Today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

4 hours ago, Kennythetiger said:

Today is the tomorrow we worried about yesterday. 

Nice!

 

Happy New Year guys. We're going to beat OU next time...

 

 

 

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

Appreciate everything all of you have to say here. Addicts and non addicts. It's daily reading for me and helps. I read it for a couple years before I stopped drinking, because I knew I had to stop at some point, and have kept reading it. As a non-program guy, I'm glad I'm not alone out here. 

The last 2 years have been the best of my life even with all this shit going on, simply because I'm not drunk. Life is that much better and easier now. SO much. 

I expect every year to hold form and be better than the last. Happy NY, my brothers and sisters. 

966 days

[fakebusiness 129]

Just like to stop by and say I'm 7 months sober. AA wasn't really for me. Not knocking it at all as it has saved a lot of lives. All my bloodwork, liver, etc., is great but I still have brainfog, anxiety, and other symptoms. I was getting pretty bad. I was basically committing a drawn out suicide. 

 

Edit:I was bad for years and was commiting a slow suicide.

Edited December 31, 2020 by fakebusiness

[TwiceHorn 31495]

Whatever it takes.  We're here if you need it/us.  Hope the PAWS resolves soon.

[fakebusiness 129]

25 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

Whatever it takes.  We're here if you need it/us.  Hope the PAWS resolves soon.

Literally thought I was developing wet brain at one point. 

[Kennythetiger 9389]

I had some shit hit the fan for me this last January, to where anything over three hours of sleep a night was wonderful. I started using a weighted blanket and listening to sleep stories on the Calm app. Helped a bunch with anxiety at night. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

I was drunk as a skunk a year ago. A few days on, a few days off until I reacted very poorly to something that went down Christmas Eve - then oblivion. It would take two more months until my next terrifying consequence.

That time feels very far away even though it is really just a few blinks of the eye.

Happy New Years again.

[BearSchlong 8098]

Amen Johnny.

10 years ago last night I got thrown out of a bar and banned, for calling the owner a Nazi and saluting her and goose stepping around when she told the bartender to cut me off. Police released me into the custody of my then gf who somehow convinced them not to arrest me. 3 weeks later I put the plug in the jug.

Last night I took my in laws to dinner where I drank 6 glasses of iced tea, got home early to put briskets on the smoker for an overnight cook, and am now awaiting my daughter, her boyfriend, and her best friend to arrive from Austin so we can have a nice VRBO getaway at the beach.

Happy New Year's day 2021 to you all.

[Dewey 3286]

I stayed 8 days at my mother's, that's a record. I throughly enjoyed the stay,  we had lunch and dinner together, watched football and some of her shows. I took it as a time to relax. The day I was planning to leave, the rain started,  instead of driving 4 hours in the rain, I stayed a couple more days. 

Last night I was watching a YouTube on Japanese carpentry, their traditional way of building, they use no screws, nails or bolts, the oldest temples in Japan, thousand years old, not one nail. The old carpenter said long ago he had to choose, to go with nature, or go against it. 

With me, a big problem was always going against the stream, everything was a battle, a losing battle. Now more than ever,  I go with the flow.... there are times,  many times actually, when I catch myself fighting it, but that's an important key. I catch myself and let go.

God bless and happy new year to all of you.

[Kennythetiger 9389]

3 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Amen Johnny.

10 years ago last night I got thrown out of a bar and banned, for calling the owner a Nazi and saluting her and goose stepping around when she told the bartender to cut me off. Police released me into the custody of my then gf who somehow convinced them not to arrest me. 3 weeks later I put the plug in the jug.

Last night I took my in laws to dinner where I drank 6 glasses of iced tea, got home early to put briskets on the smoker for an overnight cook, and am now awaiting my daughter, her boyfriend, and her best friend to arrive from Austin so we can have a nice VRBO getaway at the beach.

Happy New Year's day 2021 to you all.

First thing I thought when I read this was “Six glasses of iced tea would have me pissing into next Monday.”  Getting old sucks. Better to do it sober than drunk, though. Grateful for you assholes. 

[BearSchlong 8098]

Everytime I urinate lately I wonder if the UT coaching staff would approve of the hue.

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

2 hours ago, Dewey said:

With me, a big problem was always going against the stream, everything was a battle, a losing battle. Now more than ever,  I go with the flow.... there are times,  many times actually, when I catch myself fighting it, but that's an important key. I catch myself and let go.

Man I think I can relate to what you're saying. Even before I drank, as a kid I always did shit the hardest way possible and never turned back. Drinking was, in a way, the easier path and the most difficult path. That's the bitch of the thing I guess. 

[Kennythetiger 9389]

I really like your last two sentences. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

8 hours ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

Man I think I can relate to what you're saying. Even before I drank, as a kid I always did shit the hardest way possible and never turned back. Drinking was, in a way, the easier path and the most difficult path. That's the bitch of the thing I guess. 

Yep, I've been busting my fucking ass to take a shortcut for 50 years now. I am getting better at avoiding that. 

[UpperWestside 6169]

23 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Everytime I urinate lately I wonder if the UT coaching staff would approve of the hue.

I realize this post was meant for Herman and Co. I rarely look at the football board, but as soon as I saw that Sarkisian was likely the guy Texas wanted I knew the despicable posts about his alcoholism and the battle he has had with it would be posted. There are some people on the football board who should probably get a grip and realize there are things far more important in this life than football. I will never shame someone who has had addiction issues and not just because of having gone through a battle with alcohol. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

10 minutes ago, UpperWestside said:

I realize this post was meant for Herman and Co. I rarely look at the football board, but as soon as I saw that Sarkisian was likely the guy Texas wanted I knew the despicable posts about his alcoholism and the battle he has had with it would be posted. There are some people on the football board who should probably get a grip and realize there are things far more important in this life than football. I will never shame someone who has had addiction issues and not just because of having gone through a battle with alcohol. 

Sad truth of it is, a good portion of those making those cracks are the very people who need this thread the most. It's a form of cognitive dissonance. You rarely get hassled by true normies; it's the problem drinkers most apt to tease you or rag you for not "having just one or two." They often have some level of guilt or shame about their own drinking and so they lash out at those who quit.

[Reagan1k 3024]

I saw it and anticipated it.  It’s a mix of ignorance, plain ‘ol Surly bluster, and denial or deflection as was said above.  The percentages are not for me to assign.

I’m rooting for the guy regardless of his future record at Texas.  I’m certain his story will help someone.

All of our stories do- either as a redemptive tale or one that is cautionary if we don’t do the deal.

It would be really cool if he becomes a shining example of recovery and is able to share his experience as he sees fit.  

[Dewey 3286]

I hope Sark kills it, from my own experience,  having burned a lot to the ground and working to build back, having success has made me work harder,  but with a different,  a better attitude about things. Just knowing that you can do something and what you're doing is right, that you can trust the process and know the results, positive results,  will happen, its huge. This could be what Washington and USC hoped they would get. 

I wish him the very best... fuck the haters 🙂

[TwiceHorn 31495]

We need to be realistic that a relapse for any of us is probably not outside the realm of real possibility.

And so it is for Steve Sarkisian.  That's fair.  We have to earn trust back for those to place it in us.

I'm relatively sure he has been watched like a hawk since returning to the coaching community.  Hopefully that means not protected from himself and coddled, but rather made aware of the consequences should he slip and maybe even tested on a frequent basis.

The guy is obviously talented at this coaching thing, and we know what recovery can unleash in the already talented.  Hopefully, he makes this a living amend and we are the better for it.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

1 hour ago, UpperWestside said:

I realize this post was meant for Herman and Co. I rarely look at the football board, but as soon as I saw that Sarkisian was likely the guy Texas wanted I knew the despicable posts about his alcoholism and the battle he has had with it would be posted. There are some people on the football board who should probably get a grip and realize there are things far more important in this life than football. I will never shame someone who has had addiction issues and not just because of having gone through a battle with alcohol. 

You would be hard pressed to find a group of people that would get less bent out of shape about others opinions and criticisms about alcoholism. That's y'alls world and we have no control over it. We have ceased fighting everyone and everything, to the best of our abilities. 

Now I might send a little neg rep for piling on a fellow poster that has shared or that is obviously struggling. But I'm not gonna verbally spar with someone over it. I'm not in the changing-opinions game. Just occasionally in the lending-a-helping-hand business.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

No telling how many coaches are among us on the downlow. I don't know if Orgeron is in any kind of program, or even if he is 100 percent sober, but it's out there that his drinking was out of control at Ole Miss and he quit for a time, maybe forever, and had he not, he might be a DC at a Louisiana directional school if he was lucky. (Yeah he had a terrible year, but he'll always have 2019.)

[BearSchlong 8098]

There are many sober alcoholics in the college coaching community including well known former players. When it becomes known that one of their community is in rehab, or newly clean/sober they reach out and help each other. Since there is so much turnover, promotion, program hopping, and summer camps and clinics the degrees of separation among those guys is minimal. Pretty close knit group.

A lot of their issues are exacerbated by injury, playing hurt, and surgeries in their playing days. Friend of mine who was a DE had 4 knee surgeries and 3 doctors supplying seemingly unlimited narcotics.

[Not a cat 5660]

Was watching the Sark introduction and he mentioned working on it with meetings and a sponsor.  How does someone that is famous in their community go about unloading at meetings? 

I mean I know there's the central theme of everything is confidential but I'd imagine they'd still be hesitant to unload when everyone there knows who they are and they're a very public figure.  

I imagine this is something actors, politicians, athletes and coaches run up against.  Do they just have smaller more exclusive groups of similarly situated folks?  And yes, I realize this is a dumb question but I'm genuinely curious.

 

[J.R. 150]

What those people really don’t understand is how fucking doubly hard he worked to get to where he was at UW and USC while also holding down a full time drinking job. The thought just doesn’t occur to them that perhaps that is a sign of strength, resilience, and determination not weakness.  Only sort of kidding. 

[TexasEd 8067]

I'm here to say I'm hoping that he succeeds at life and coaching.  He came across as having learned from the past, I'll support him keeping his shit together and being a positive example of what you one can achieve if you get your shit together.

[Kennythetiger 9389]

13 hours ago, Not a cat said:

Was watching the Sark introduction and he mentioned working on it with meetings and a sponsor.  How does someone that is famous in their community go about unloading at meetings? 

I mean I know there's the central theme of everything is confidential but I'd imagine they'd still be hesitant to unload when everyone there knows who they are and they're a very public figure.  

I imagine this is something actors, politicians, athletes and coaches run up against.  Do they just have smaller more exclusive groups of similarly situated folks?  And yes, I realize this is a dumb question but I'm genuinely curious.

 

It’s probably not as big as a deal as it would seem to be from the outside.  Most of us are so goddamned self-centered that it doesn’t matter who else is there. I could be sitting next to your guy Mack Brown and all I’d probably want to talk about is who pissed me off since the last time I was there. 

[TwiceHorn 31495]

13 hours ago, Not a cat said:

Was watching the Sark introduction and he mentioned working on it with meetings and a sponsor.  How does someone that is famous in their community go about unloading at meetings? 

I mean I know there's the central theme of everything is confidential but I'd imagine they'd still be hesitant to unload when everyone there knows who they are and they're a very public figure.  

I imagine this is something actors, politicians, athletes and coaches run up against.  Do they just have smaller more exclusive groups of similarly situated folks?  And yes, I realize this is a dumb question but I'm genuinely curious.

 

 

10 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

It’s probably not as big as a deal as it would seem to be from the outside.  Most of us are so goddamned self-centered that it doesn’t matter who else is there. I could be sitting next to your guy Mack Brown and all I’d probably want to talk about is who pissed me off since the last time I was there. 

True enough.  But "unloading" is really for newbs.  It's cathartic, it's being honest, but it's not very therapeutic.  The real value in "unloading" comes in private with your sponsor where you can discuss which things are products of alcoholic thinking and which things are real and how to deal with it all.

And, in addition to not giving a damn, most are pretty good about changing names to protect the innocent.

[ztejas 43475]

15 hours ago, Not a cat said:

Was watching the Sark introduction and he mentioned working on it with meetings and a sponsor.  How does someone that is famous in their community go about unloading at meetings? 

I mean I know there's the central theme of everything is confidential but I'd imagine they'd still be hesitant to unload when everyone there knows who they are and they're a very public figure.  

I imagine this is something actors, politicians, athletes and coaches run up against.  Do they just have smaller more exclusive groups of similarly situated folks?  And yes, I realize this is a dumb question but I'm genuinely curious.

 

Coupled with the fact that it is at its root supposed to be anonymous, and what is said in meetings stays in meetings, most of us don't just go to meetings to bitch about stuff or tell war stories. You're encouraged to "keep it in the solution". I mean sure you can talk about all of your trials and tribulations and how you're special and different and how big of a fuckup you were but that's generally not what makes a good meeting or share.

Anecdotally, most of my shares are pretty general. I might reflect on something that happened the other day, or how I'm feeling, or the mindset that I try and keep or what works for me and what I do when I'm struggling. I'd say 95% if not more of the time I share I don't recount any details about my use at all. Because it's pointless. All of us went through the same shit. I'm not coming to a meeting to hear about how much you used to drink or all of the trouble you got into, I'm coming to hear about how you got past it and what you do today to stay sober and be a spirtually grounded, well-adjusted person.

Coming back to Sark, he's publicly acknowledged that he had/has a problem and is working to overcome it. So what would someone from a meeting spill the beans on anyway? "Oh my God I saw Sark at a meeting!" Well, duh. "Sark said he used to drink a lot and would drink at work and hide alcohol around the house!" Yeah, we know. 

Anything that would be really damning or damaging were it to get out is probably not something he would share in an open meeting. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

3 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Coupled with the fact that it is at its root supposed to be anonymous, and what is said in meetings stays in meetings, most of us don't just go to meetings to bitch about stuff or tell war stories. You're encouraged to "keep it in the solution". I mean sure you can talk about all of your trials and tribulations and how you're special and different and how big of a fuckup you were but that's generally not what makes a good meeting or share.

Anecdotally, most of my shares are pretty general. I might reflect on something that happened the other day, or how I'm feeling, or the mindset that I try and keep or what works for me and what I do when I'm struggling. I'd say 95% if not more of the time I share I don't recount any details about my use at all. Because it's pointless. All of us went through the same shit. I'm not coming to a meeting to hear about how much you used to drink or all of the trouble you got into, I'm coming to hear about how you got past it and what you do today to stay sober and be a spirtually grounded, well-adjusted person.

Coming back to Sark, he's publicly acknowledged that he had/has a problem and is working to overcome it. So what would someone from a meeting spill the beans on anyway? "Oh my God I saw Sark at a meeting!" Well, duh. "Sark said he used to drink a lot and would drink at work and hide alcohol around the house!" Yeah, we know. 

Anything that would be really damning or damaging were it to get out is probably not something he would share in an open meeting. 

A coach like Switzer would have a guy staking out Sark's meetings. Probably not even joking. 

[fakebusiness 129]

When someone's most they've consumed ever was a weekday for you. 🤢

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

2 minutes ago, fakebusiness said:

When someone's most they've consumed ever was a weekday for you. 🤢

Yeah, lol, I posted that. I was genuinely alarmed, given that this is Surly and not Gen Pop, and also that people tend to exaggerate. Grateful to be alive. 

[Celery Man 20966]

I haven't kept up closely but didn't notice anything that ruffled me too much.  A bit of "lack of discipline" type comments relating to his alcoholism, which reflects... maybe a bit of a misunderstanding of the thing but also as alcoholics we've all done enough shit to set that aside, unruffle our feathers, and be thankful at our ability to apply discipline in our lives.

First one to talk about seeing Sark in a meeting loses. I've been watching some West Wing and enjoy the couple of times they go into a side plot about AA meetings for high profile politicians.

I honestly had to go look up who this guy is and what his story is. Which means I don't know anything but a wikipedia article and some comments from various threads. Some people were talking about some of the stories of him being completely shitfaced at booster meetings or doing really inappropriate stuff as... we're in for a rough ride or whatever. My optimistic take is that that sounds like some actual alcoholic shit. Who knows what his journey has been with that, and what his personal recovery is or looks like. But if he was really bottoming out as an alcoholic (and isn't simply a boozy asshole), one very real version of this story is one in which he has gotten his shit together and is stronger and quicker than he ever was before he crashed. Hopefully that's the story - I'd be rooting for him regardless, but I'm going to root for that story to play out here as well.

[UpperWestside 6169]

On 1/2/2021 at 6:20 PM, JohnnyRage said:

You would be hard pressed to find a group of people that would get less bent out of shape about others opinions and criticisms about alcoholism. That's y'alls world and we have no control over it. We have ceased fighting everyone and everything, to the best of our abilities. 

Now I might send a little neg rep for piling on a fellow poster that has shared or that is obviously struggling. But I'm not gonna verbally spar with someone over it. I'm not in the changing-opinions game. Just occasionally in the lending-a-helping-hand business.

My own time spent almost drinking myself to death reminds me of some of what Sarkisian has gone through to get to this point. I would like to hope he will continue to be a successful human being first and foremost. I am glad for him that he has made the most of the chance he was given. He is writing his own story right now and I hope it continues to be filled with so many more positive moments for him each and every day.

Edited January 4, 2021 by UpperWestside

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

3 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I haven't kept up closely but didn't notice anything that ruffled me too much.  A bit of "lack of discipline" type comments relating to his alcoholism, which reflects... maybe a bit of a misunderstanding of the thing but also as alcoholics we've all done enough shit to set that aside, unruffle our feathers, and be thankful at our ability to apply discipline in our lives.

First one to talk about seeing Sark in a meeting loses. I've been watching some West Wing and enjoy the couple of times they go into a side plot about AA meetings for high profile politicians.

I honestly had to go look up who this guy is and what his story is. Which means I don't know anything but a wikipedia article and some comments from various threads. Some people were talking about some of the stories of him being completely shitfaced at booster meetings or doing really inappropriate stuff as... we're in for a rough ride or whatever. My optimistic take is that that sounds like some actual alcoholic shit. Who knows what his journey has been with that, and what his personal recovery is or looks like. But if he was really bottoming out as an alcoholic (and isn't simply a boozy asshole), one very real version of this story is one in which he has gotten his shit together and is stronger and quicker than he ever was before he crashed. Hopefully that's the story - I'd be rooting for him regardless, but I'm going to root for that story to play out here as well.

I was keeping up in real time (and in full flower) and let's just say he earned his chair. 

[Kennythetiger 9389]

7 hours ago, Celery Man said:

I haven't kept up closely but didn't notice anything that ruffled me too much.  A bit of "lack of discipline" type comments relating to his alcoholism, which reflects... maybe a bit of a misunderstanding of the thing but also as alcoholics we've all done enough shit to set that aside, unruffle our feathers, and be thankful at our ability to apply discipline in our lives.

First one to talk about seeing Sark in a meeting loses. I've been watching some West Wing and enjoy the couple of times they go into a side plot about AA meetings for high profile politicians.

I honestly had to go look up who this guy is and what his story is. Which means I don't know anything but a wikipedia article and some comments from various threads. Some people were talking about some of the stories of him being completely shitfaced at booster meetings or doing really inappropriate stuff as... we're in for a rough ride or whatever. My optimistic take is that that sounds like some actual alcoholic shit. Who knows what his journey has been with that, and what his personal recovery is or looks like. But if he was really bottoming out as an alcoholic (and isn't simply a boozy asshole), one very real version of this story is one in which he has gotten his shit together and is stronger and quicker than he ever was before he crashed. Hopefully that's the story - I'd be rooting for him regardless, but I'm going to root for that story to play out here as well.

I’ve always enjoyed the lecture Leo gave the girl who talked about his alcoholism when he fired and then re-hired her, and I have used Leo’s “down in a hole” story more than once when talking to folks like us. 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

The drinking song thread got me thinking about songs with a little more, make that a lot more, of a serious bent. A somewhat famous rock musician with issues of his own keeps lists of "bests" in numerous categories and he told me this was his leader in the songs about alcoholism department. It's hard to argue against it.: