I'm An Alcoholic

[Al_4_ISU 12483]

19 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

The drinking song thread got me thinking about songs with a little more, make that a lot more, of a serious bent. A somewhat famous rock musician with issues of his own keeps lists of "bests" in numerous categories and he told me this was his leader in the songs about alcoholism department. It's hard to argue against it.:

 

Was it Isbell?  I found this song through DBT.  Patterson Hood covered it on his first solo album.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

Just now, Al_4_ISU said:

Was it Isbell?  I found this song through DBT.  Patterson Hood covered it on his first solo album.

No, Patterson told me about it. He didn't even mention he covered it, haha. 

[Al_4_ISU 12483]

1 minute ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

No, Patterson told me about it. He didn't even mention he covered it, haha. 

I suspected a connection, but guessed Isbell due to the renown of his demons, and seeming to recall you having Nashville connections.  Keeping these kind of lists seems like a total Patterson move. 

"Killer & Stars" is pretty great, but I think gets kinda lost in the shuffle of that era.

[Reagan1k 3024]

I'm so grateful that part of my recovering involved divorcing myself from "politics".  

I still have ideologies and principals, but I don't discuss them, engage others abut them, or argue with those who's differ.

I used to spend evenings writing letters to politicians - I owe Teddy Kennedy an amends I guess.

I'd listen to talk radio, elevate my blood pressure, and drunkenly plan my political platform.

Gone - I cannot control those things so I leave them alone.

Those political  engagements may be luxuries others can afford and remain serene, but not this drunk.

On nights such as this I am eternally grateful that all I feel is sadness for our collective society, and have no other emotional connection to either side.

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

5 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

I'm so grateful that part of my recovering involved divorcing myself from "politics".  

I still have ideologies and principals, but I don't discuss them, engage others abut them, or argue with those who's differ.

I used to spend evenings writing letters to politicians - I owe Teddy Kennedy an amends I guess.

I'd listen to talk radio, elevate my blood pressure, and drunkenly plan my political platform.

Gone - I cannot control those things so I leave them alone.

Those political  engagements may be luxuries others can afford and remain serene, but not this drunk.

On nights such as this I am eternally grateful that all I feel is sadness for our collective society, and have no other emotional connection to either side.

I found they certainly go hand in hand. Politics often made for a ready made excuse / justification to get trashed for yet another day. It's easy to convince yourself it's the only noble or patriotic thing to do under the circumstances. 

[hullabelew 3724]

Yep.  I quit listening to sports talk radio for the same reason.  Really haven't watched any news program in years because I can't find an unbiased one.   The other day, I made the huge mistake of venturing over to CR about the pardoning of the Blackwater guys.  I was interested because one of them was the son of two people that I've known since I was 5 years old.  What a HUGE fucking mistake that was.  

[ztejas 43532]

I certainly thought about drinking yesterday. But then I reminded myself that it's not going to fix anything and that the world is going to go on whether I drink or not and to stop being so dramatic. 

Besides that, drinking would require me to get off the couch, go to my car, start my car, drive to a bar or liquor store, walk inside, figure out what I want and then put it to my lips. In over 6 months now I have yet to make it to the "go to my car" stage.

It certainly made me think a little bit about other things that could happen that my disease might try and convince me are worth drinking over. The more I get into this the more I realize, or that is hammered in, that there really isn't anything I have to drink over. Ever. It's always a choice. And I know exactly what is going to happen when I make the wrong choice. I'm young but I've done that plenty. It wasn't working for me. I don't need any more convincing.

[Bevo&Pevo 5217]

21 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

I'm so grateful that part of my recovering involved divorcing myself from "politics".  

I still have ideologies and principals, but I don't discuss them, engage others abut them, or argue with those who's differ.

I used to spend evenings writing letters to politicians - I owe Teddy Kennedy an amends I guess.

I'd listen to talk radio, elevate my blood pressure, and drunkenly plan my political platform.

Gone - I cannot control those things so I leave them alone.

Those political  engagements may be luxuries others can afford and remain serene, but not this drunk.

On nights such as this I am eternally grateful that all I feel is sadness for our collective society, and have no other emotional connection to either side.

More non drinkers should realize this.  Keep up the fine work.

[Reagan1k 3024]

1 hour ago, Bevo&Pevo said:

More non drinkers should realize this.  Keep up the fine work.

Yeah- it’s nothing more than a resentment waiting to happen.  Like me drinking poison wanting the opposing party to die from it. 

[pch 1261]

9 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Yeah- it’s nothing more than a resentment waiting to happen.  Like me drinking poison wanting the opposing party to die from it. 

One of my favorite reminders regarding controversial and possibly destructive conversation topics: Does it need to be said, does it need to be said now, does it need to be said by me?  Doesn't always stop me from inserting my foot in my mouth from time to time, but I'm making progress. I had to get off of Facebook because it became too difficult not to practice restraint of tongue and keyboard.

[Bevo&Pevo 5217]

^^Smart move, my man.

[Reagan1k 3024]

2 hours ago, pch said:

One of my favorite reminders regarding controversial and possibly destructive conversation topics: Does it need to be said, does it need to be said now, does it need to be said by me?  Doesn't always stop me from inserting my foot in my mouth from time to time, but I'm making progress. I had to get off of Facebook because it became too difficult not to practice restraint of tongue and keyboard.

Thanks for sharing that.  I need to use that more often. Those would be great speedbumps to prevent me from stumbling into trouble of my own making.

I've also heard....."Is true?  Is it loving? Is it kind? Is it necessary?"

Damn it....... if I'd just filter all the crap that wants to go from my head to my mouth through these, I'd have a lot less to worry about.

About six months into sobriety my sponsor asked me to show him my credentials as the Chief of the Global Parking Lot Police. 

That stung a bit, but made a huge difference.  I didn't realize how many times I sabotaged my own day by being a dick to a stranger over something that was insignificant to me.

[BearSchlong 8110]

Indeed.  Today I feel like I've been through an emotional bender.  Spent more time in CR the last month, particularly the last few days than I ever have.

My morning meditation focused on 2 things -

• I'm a pendulum at perfect rest avoiding emotional swings, not getting sucked into anger, resentment, fear, and self-righteousness.
• "Sometimes our world just gets too big, and we have to make it smaller" - October 2011, first year of sobriety got an email from my VP notifying me that he would be flying in town to meet with me. I thought I was about to get fired from my job.  Had already projected this with 100% certainty.  Had my company cell phone and access badge all ready to turn over to HR.  My stomach was in knots, I was paralyzed with anxiety.  So I did what by then I was sorta conditioned to do, called my sponsor.  He listened and then shared the aforementioned quote, which put things in perfect perspective.  Just another way of looking at the serenity prayer, manageability, being returned to sanity, etc. It was God doing for me what I could not do for myself - which was someone I respected as a spiritual adviser giving me permission to shrug the world from my shoulders.
  • Showed up at the meeting and my VP just wanted to catch up and find out how he could help me with my job.  "You're not here to fire me?" was received with a chuckle. "No."  We had a good chat, 2012 was record-breaking, and I made president's club with a paid trip to the 4 Seasons in Nevis (not Philly).

Today I'm focusing on all the things that are within a 200 foot radius.  Hoping I can keep things like my wife, job, dogs, etc. in focus.

[BearSchlong 8110]

29 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Thanks for sharing that.  I need to use that more often. Those would be great speedbumps to prevent me from stumbling into trouble of my own making.

I've also heard....."Is true?  Is it loving? Is it kind? Is it necessary?"

Damn it....... if I'd just filter all the crap that wants to go from my head to my mouth through these, I'd have a lot less to worry about.

About six months into sobriety my sponsor asked me to show him my credentials as the Chief of the Global Parking Lot Police. 

That stung a bit, but made a huge difference.  I didn't realize how many times I sabotaged my own day by being a dick to a stranger over something that was insignificant to me.

Man I could spend all day on facebook making amends.  NGL, I've fantasized about starting a few fistfights in the parking lot at my home group lately.  It hurts to type this.

[Kennythetiger 9452]

21 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Yeah- it’s nothing more than a resentment waiting to happen.  Like me drinking poison wanting the opposing party to die from it. 

I use the poison thing when talking with others about holding grudges. And I’m damned good at holding grudges. But getting worse at it, thankfully. 

[ztejas 43532]

8 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Man I could spend all day on facebook making amends.  NGL, I've fantasized about starting a few fistfights in the parking lot at my home group lately.  It hurts to type this.

Everytime I want to roll my eyes or for someone to shut the fuck up that's sharing God asks me to listen a little bit harder. 

But I get it. There are assholes and snake-oil salesmen in recovery just like in any other room of life. 

[Shoxthemonkey 1983]

12 hours ago, pch said:

One of my favorite reminders regarding controversial and possibly destructive conversation topics: Does it need to be said, does it need to be said now, does it need to be said by me?  Doesn't always stop me from inserting my foot in my mouth from time to time, but I'm making progress. I had to get off of Facebook because it became too difficult not to practice restraint of tongue and keyboard.

This is why I visit this thread often. This is good advice for anybody but something I  really needed to see this week. Thank you

[Clintonaldo 2576]

On 1/2/2021 at 4:57 PM, UpperWestside said:

I realize this post was meant for Herman and Co. I rarely look at the football board, but as soon as I saw that Sarkisian was likely the guy Texas wanted I knew the despicable posts about his alcoholism and the battle he has had with it would be posted. There are some people on the football board who should probably get a grip and realize there are things far more important in this life than football. I will never shame someone who has had addiction issues and not just because of having gone through a battle with alcohol. 

As a non Texas fan I find myself pulling more for Texas because of who they hired and I am pulling for him. 

[Clintonaldo 2576]

On 1/7/2021 at 10:28 AM, hullabelew said:

Yep.  I quit listening to sports talk radio for the same reason.  Really haven't watched any news program in years because I can't find an unbiased one.   The other day, I made the huge mistake of venturing over to CR about the pardoning of the Blackwater guys.  I was interested because one of them was the son of two people that I've known since I was 5 years old.  What a HUGE fucking mistake that was.  

I know one of the guys also. Small world. 

[BearSchlong 8110]

14 hours ago, ztejas said:

Everytime I want to roll my eyes or for someone to shut the fuck up that's sharing God asks me to listen a little bit harder. 

But I get it. There are assholes and snake-oil salesmen in recovery just like in any other room of life. 

And all polarization is fundamentally fear based.  If everybody was on the spiritual beam, we'd not only have complete acceptance, we'd have nothing to talk about!

Big book has lots to say about this in pages 60-63.

Now to practice what I preach.

Last night my wife told me flat out "outrage isn't attractive."

Edited January 9, 2021 by BearSchlong

[pch 1261]

4 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

"outrage isn't attractive", words that would have done me well but gone unheard most of my young adult life, and a while after.

7 years today. Reading this thread did me good today. I don't get a chip because I don't to to meetings, but as I always like to note I'm not better than anyone else in here or in any meeting. Just different.

Today's weird for a lot of reasons I'm not really interested in getting into right now. I'm pretty blah, and part of my head is telling me you need to celebrate being alive. Another part is saying, yo, I am happy about it, and glad I'm sober, we don't have to make a big deal about it. It's okay to sometimes be okay, even in important moments. I've had some pretty big losses recently(dad and friend died of covid in December), and work shit too. They aren't dragging me down too much, but are keeping me sub optimal. 

I'm gonna make myself being okay with being okay. I'm alive, which is most important, and I don't want a drink which is great. I do want a Corvette and Sportsmobile, but I can't afford either and I refuse to lease either.

Thats okay, I'm okay. I'm better than okay, I'm good. I just don't think I feel like celebrating. 

I hate political arguments, facebook and "News", so I avoid the fuck out of them now. I'm better for it.

I am not real happy with the new head coach, but I don't have any control over it, wish him well and have decided to move on from that part of my life. I'm good with that reality.

7 years seems like a long time ago, but it doesn't feel like a long time ago. 

I really like my life, but need a new job. I'm good, but not great, I'm alive. So I'm okay with myself for not wanting to a celebrate. Maybe tomorrow. I'm gonna go outside now. 

Well, don't mind me if I celebrate your milestone here.  Congratulations.

[TwiceHorn 31534]

23 minutes ago, pch said:

Well, don't mind me if I celebrate your milestone here.  Congratulations.

Indeed.

[hullabelew 3724]

When I was in an IOP after my 28 day stint, I met a dude named Dan.  Really cool guy, early 40s.  So laid back...in to meditation and yoga and guitar...GREAT songwriter and singer.  We became good friends really quickly and I've mentioned part of his story before.  In short, did a 6 yr stint in fed prison on a distribution charge under required minimum sentencing.  He was in his late 20s at the time.  Started a dive shop in Bahamas with his dad.  Would stay sober for a year or two then crash, in a big manner.  Primarily coke.  Got married and had a kid.  Couple of years ago, relapsed.  Wife found his car at a seedy hotel, she called the cops. The busted door down, beat the shit out of him, tossed him in jail.  3 years probation.  

Then last May, he relapsed again.  Ran from cops, big chase, pitted him...rolled his car on interstate.  Woke up in hospital, chained to a bed.  But they never put him in jail.  He thinks county didn't want to have to deal with his hospital stay.  This is when I met him.  Once month after this happened.   Again, laid back, about the nicest, friendliest, kindest person I've ever met.  He is a born leader.   

In July of this year, they worked out a sentence for the eluding chase (with about 10 other charges....none drug related).  And at that time, his other history hadn't surfaced.  If he had gone to trial, it would have.  So, 10 years to serve 3.  Everyone estimated it would be about 6-8 months.  1 county jail, 2 state prisons and back to a state work camp to be released.  Right at 7 months.  Today was the day. 

His wife drove down and was sitting in the parking lot at 7:45 this morning.  He called me at 8:15 because I was the only one with money left on my phone account.  His wife had used hers up since he was getting out.  He was wondering where she was......couple of calls between the 3 of use.  Then they come out and tell her that the 3 yr outstanding probation case reared it's  head and that county might want to see him.  I had to tell him that....then I got a phone call from his wife, bawling her head off, that the state patrol was in the parking lot and the warden called her to say they were transporting him to that county. 

We talked about me going, in case something like this happened.  I drove him the 3 hours to his signing of his case where he turned himself in.  We just thought he was actually getting out since no one had mentioned the outstanding case.  And there she was....stuck 90 minutes from home and having to drive back without her husband.  My wife and I have been taking lunch to her and their 2 yr old son while he has been away.  We talk several times throughout the week. Things have been so great the past month because we knew he was getting out and the outstanding case hadn't been mentioned.  I was freaking out with him over the phone and he could tell.  He just kept telling me, "Hulla, this will be OK.  Just breathe through it."  fuck.

 

 

[pch 1261]

7 hours ago, hullabelew said:

When I was in an IOP after my 28 day stint, I met a dude named Dan.  Really cool guy, early 40s.  So laid back...in to meditation and yoga and guitar...GREAT songwriter and singer.  We became good friends really quickly and I've mentioned part of his story before.  In short, did a 6 yr stint in fed prison on a distribution charge under required minimum sentencing.  He was in his late 20s at the time.  Started a dive shop in Bahamas with his dad.  Would stay sober for a year or two then crash, in a big manner.  Primarily coke.  Got married and had a kid.  Couple of years ago, relapsed.  Wife found his car at a seedy hotel, she called the cops. The busted door down, beat the shit out of him, tossed him in jail.  3 years probation.  

Then last May, he relapsed again.  Ran from cops, big chase, pitted him...rolled his car on interstate.  Woke up in hospital, chained to a bed.  But they never put him in jail.  He thinks county didn't want to have to deal with his hospital stay.  This is when I met him.  Once month after this happened.   Again, laid back, about the nicest, friendliest, kindest person I've ever met.  He is a born leader.   

In July of this year, they worked out a sentence for the eluding chase (with about 10 other charges....none drug related).  And at that time, his other history hadn't surfaced.  If he had gone to trial, it would have.  So, 10 years to serve 3.  Everyone estimated it would be about 6-8 months.  1 county jail, 2 state prisons and back to a state work camp to be released.  Right at 7 months.  Today was the day. 

His wife drove down and was sitting in the parking lot at 7:45 this morning.  He called me at 8:15 because I was the only one with money left on my phone account.  His wife had used hers up since he was getting out.  He was wondering where she was......couple of calls between the 3 of use.  Then they come out and tell her that the 3 yr outstanding probation case reared it's  head and that county might want to see him.  I had to tell him that....then I got a phone call from his wife, bawling her head off, that the state patrol was in the parking lot and the warden called her to say they were transporting him to that county. 

We talked about me going, in case something like this happened.  I drove him the 3 hours to his signing of his case where he turned himself in.  We just thought he was actually getting out since no one had mentioned the outstanding case.  And there she was....stuck 90 minutes from home and having to drive back without her husband.  My wife and I have been taking lunch to her and their 2 yr old son while he has been away.  We talk several times throughout the week. Things have been so great the past month because we knew he was getting out and the outstanding case hadn't been mentioned.  I was freaking out with him over the phone and he could tell.  He just kept telling me, "Hulla, this will be OK.  Just breathe through it."  fuck.

 

 

Sometimes these FGO's really test the love and tolerance part of our program.  Good on you and your wife being of service to your friend's family-that intangible reward which  comes from unconditional giving is priceless and speaks volumes to newcomers when you are sponsoring. Hang in there.

[Jerry Callo 8722]

Hit the 2 year mark yesterday. 

Unrelated to my anniversary, I met some buddies at a local taproom for beer and conversation (I had some fizzy water).  Back in the day, we would meet a couple times a week at one of the local breweries.  I would usually prime the pump with some bourbon before going, drink a few stouts or porters (ABV was always a consideration when ordering beer), and then usually have something when returning home.  I'm blessed to have stopped the madness of always planning for the next drink.  I'm blessed for no longer having the consequences of all the drinking.  What a weight lifted.

I didn't go to rehab and don't do any programs.  I have this group, as much as anything, for passively convincing me I could and should quit drinking.  I started reading y'alls stories and words on TOS - actually taking several hours to read through every page.  I read for a couple years before deciding I was really going to stop. 

Thank you!

[BearSchlong 8110]

Congratulations, that's awesome.  Like you said, the consequences are what matters.  Totally evidence based.  Some of us are just a little more hardheaded.

[hullabelew 3724]

Outstanding @Jerry Callo  Great to hear.  I'm in the more 'hardheaded' crowd.  

[BearSchlong 8110]

I'm at my company's "2021 Kickoff" via Zoom.

These marketing types are trying to get us to schedule virtual events with clients where we send them a "curated" selection of whiskies and a zoom meeting with an expert who will walk them through the tasting. Option 2 is with brewmasters/beer, Option 3 is with sommeliers/wine, Option 4 is in-person hatchet throwing lessons

Part of me wants to notify leadership that we might want to be sensitive to any (ahem) recovering alcoholics in our client base. . .the marketing director just went through a whole deck on these events and ended with a slide that said "I mean, everyone likes to drink, right?"

I'm just sitting here cringing.

Edited January 14, 2021 by BearSchlong

[BTW 370]

On 12/14/2020 at 1:17 PM, BTW said:

Thanks @SwanderedTalent and @BearSchlong for the answers.

I know you lot have much bigger problems if a picture of a glass of whiskey is offensive, but I felt it was worth acknowledging.

As requested, I'll keep you updated.  He'll be there till the 2nd week in Jan so I expect it to be quiet through the holidays.

 

Update time ...

(Recap - I posted back in early Dec about my business partner that went in for a 30 day treatment program last year after a terrible week long trip to the hospital that was caused by his drinking)

He came back to the office on Monday of this week and and it was totally surreal.  The first thing I noticed is how much weight he had dropped, it was startling.  The second thing I noticed, was his face.  It didn't have that shiny/sweaty/glistening-oily look that I had grown so used to seeing over the last 10 years.  I didn't notice the third thing until he sat down and started telling me about his experience.  The only word I can use to describe his demeanor is "Zen."  And if you knew the guy before, that's probably the last word anyone would use to describe him.  He was always so agitated, nervous, and fidgety.  His hands would always be trembling and he used to seem like he was always ready to jump up and run out of the room at a moment's notice.  For the first time, he seems to truly be at peace in his own skin.

To make a long story short, he seems to have totally changed.  He did admit that half way through the program, he signed his 24 hour release papers and was out of there before some of the guys who were in there with him talked him off the ledge and he stuck it out.  He said he's so glad he did and that he learned so much about himself and about the asshole he's been to his family the last 15 years, that he didn't even realized.

So now, we're "back to business" in a sense, and I'm still trying to figure out and navigate being supportive without being condescending, not really having any idea what he's been through. 

I will say that watching him and his family go through this has caused me to pay much closer attention to my drinking and especially when, why and how much I drink.  (Examples being, I've stopped drinking alone when I'm just watching a TV show and I'm trying not to drink out of boredom).

[TwiceHorn 31534]

3 minutes ago, BTW said:

Update time ...

(Recap - I posted back in early Dec about my business partner that went in for a 30 day treatment program last year after a terrible week long trip to the hospital that was caused by his drinking)

He came back to the office on Monday of this week and and it was totally surreal.  The first thing I noticed is how much weight he had dropped, it was startling.  The second thing I noticed, was his face.  It didn't have that shiny/sweaty/glistening-oily look that I had grown so used to seeing over the last 10 years.  I didn't notice the third thing until he sat down and started telling me about his experience.  The only word I can use to describe his demeanor is "Zen."  And if you knew the guy before, that's probably the last word anyone would use to describe him.  He was always so agitated, nervous, and fidgety.  His hands would always be trembling and he used to seem like he was always ready to jump up and run out of the room at a moment's notice.  For the first time, he seems to truly be at peace in his own skin.

To make a long story short, he seems to have totally changed.  He did admit that half way through the program, he signed his 24 hour release papers and was out of there before some of the guys who were in there with him talked him off the ledge and he stuck it out.  He said he's so glad he did and that he learned so much about himself and about the asshole he's been to his family the last 15 years, that he didn't even realized.

So now, we're "back to business" in a sense, and I'm still trying to figure out and navigate being supportive without being condescending, not really having any idea what he's been through. 

I will say that watching him and his family go through this has caused me to pay much closer attention to my drinking and especially when, why and how much I drink.  (Examples being, I've stopped drinking alone when I'm just watching a TV show and I'm trying not to drink out of boredom).

Just an information item.

Yes, the physical changes can be remarkable, depending on how long he's been at it.  And newfound mental clarity.

But, there is a phenomenon, almost universal, known as the "pink cloud" that envelops the newly sober for a month or two.  Everything is happiness, sweetness, and light.

But at some point after that month or two, real life sets in.  Some like to call it a particular syndrome, like post-acute-withdrawal-syndrome or PAWS.  Some just call it real life sets back in with all the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, boredom, annoyance, etc.

Also, at some point, that usually coincides with the end of the pink cloud, the "ego rebuilds" and the drunk begins to believe that s/he's "got this." 

And these things often conspire to get the drunk to believe that s/he can "successfully" drink again, and leads to "experimentation," and usually to rapid disaster.

So, you may notice him reverting to old patterns of thought and speech that precede this.

A cheap psychological trick, that works until it doesn't, is to remind him to "play that tape to the end" and consider the consequences if he should resume drinking.

A more 12-step oriented reminder is to remind him of step 1, where he admitted that he was powerless over alcohol and that his life had become unmanageable.  What, exactly, does he think changed from six weeks or six months ago so that he has magically regained power over alcohol.

[hullabelew 3724]

@BTW  Just be there for him.  At some point, he my just start talking to you.  I have done that several times when the feeling hits me.  One night, pretty late at a buddies cabin, he said he felt bad about drinking in front of me and asked if it bothered me.  Nope.   Then I started telling him shit that happened in rehab.  The funny and bizarre stuff.  He was pretty lit and said, "That is fucked up.  I'm on my 5th whiskey drink and your drinking ginger beer and telling me rehab stories that are funny as fuck."  

Next day, I got up and started working in his basement to finish some work from the day before.  He was laying on the couch, bitching about his hangover and saying he didn't think he drank that much.  I just had to chuckle.  

[Celery Man 20996]

9 hours ago, BTW said:

The only word I can use to describe his demeanor is "Zen."  And if you knew the guy before, that's probably the last word anyone would use to describe him.  He was always so agitated, nervous, and fidgety.  His hands would always be trembling and he used to seem like he was always ready to jump up and run out of the room at a moment's notice.  For the first time, he seems to truly be at peace in his own skin.

 

The way you describe his trembling hands, perceived anxiousness to escape the room... man that brings back feelings. Beyond just the regular crazy/neurotic that makes us how we are, when you've got a really strong physical dependence, the withdrawals that you go through at any extended period without a drink....

The absolute misery of being in some mundane situation, sitting in a room sweating with your hands shaking, your heart pounding, your mind racing, the unsolvable problem of "i'm killing myself drinking and if i don't get a drink i'm going to kill myself". 

Glad it is going well for your friend. I hope it continues to go well. It sounds like you are being a good friend, and someone he can be open with. He'll have moments of weakness, it is good for him to have people in his life like that. Keep it up. I hope you see him thriving.

[Reagan1k 3024]

18 hours ago, BTW said:

His hands would always be trembling and he used to seem like he was always ready to jump up and run out of the room at a moment's notice. 

About two months after I stopped drinking, out of the blue my assistant commented that my signature had changed and I had decent handwriting - She asked if I was working on it - As if I had a Big Chief tablet and pencil out every night doing handwriting exercises. 

She didn't know I'd stopped at that point, but it was a pretty clear reminder that when I was drinking those 6-8 dry hours every day at the office were a disaster.

I'm thrilled for your partner and for you that he's doing well, and I hope he continues to do what got him to this point.  I've got a friend in the program  and he always tells me to keep doing what I'm doing and not doing what I'm not doing.

Serenity and sobriety are sustainable, but are not continuous without effort.

[JohnnyRage 1617]

@BTW

Just compliment him on some of the noticeable changes and tell him that "You are 'happy' for him."

(I personally prefer this to 'proud', doing the obvious basics of life isn't all that worthy)

And tell him that you are there for any support that he may need on his sober journey. Tell him you'd even go to an Open AA Meeting with him.

Other than that, I think, pretty much treat him normally.

[TwiceHorn 31534]

The other thing to do is this.

If he is using AA to stay sober, it is a program of action.  And that action extends beyond merely going to meetings.  It includes getting a sponsor and talking to the sponsor daily or as the sponsor directs.

So you can gently inquire if he has a sponsor and if he's talked to him today.  If you start that now, while he's happy, he'll take it in the right spirit.  If you start it once he is off the pink cloud, he's likely to be annoyed and that is probably a bad sign.

[BearSchlong 8110]

@BTW I agree with everything that has been said with one addition - whenever a well-meaning non-alcoholic finds out that I'm a sober member of AA and have been a while without a drink, their natural instinct is to say something like "Way to stay strong, way to fight, way to conquer the demons."

The paradox is that lasting sobriety requires daily surrender.  We lay down our swords. Our literature even says "we quit fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol" So when I hear a comment like that I chuckle to myself and think "If they only knew how many times I had to surrender"

One of my favorite sayings heard from the podium at an AA meeting is "If I'm TRYING to control or enjoy anything, then I'm definitely NOT controlling or enjoying it."

Edited January 15, 2021 by BearSchlong

[TwiceHorn 31534]

39 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

@BTW I agree with everything that has been said with one addition - whenever a well-meaning non-alcoholic finds out that I'm a sober member of AA and have been a while without a drink, their natural instinct is to say something like "Way to stay strong, way to fight, way to conquer the demons."

The paradox is that lasting sobriety requires daily surrender.  We lay down our swords. Our literature even says "we quit fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol" So when I hear a comment like that I chuckle to myself and think "If they only knew how many times I had to surrender"

One of my favorite sayings heard from the podium at an AA meeting is "If I'm TRYING to control or enjoy anything, then I'm definitely NOT controlling or enjoying it."

Yes, that and Johnny's "proud of you" observation are spot-on.

None of that has ever really bothered me, I have managed to take it in the spirit that it's said.

But it feels kind of awkward.

[Reagan1k 3024]

18 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Yes, that and Johnny's "proud of you" observation are spot-on.

None of that has ever really bothered me, I have managed to take it in the spirit that it's said.

But it feels kind of awkward.

With all of you on that. 

I've made the choice never to tell any sponsee or friend in the program that I am "proud" of them.  I just say that I am happy for them, and that's the truth.

Doesn't bother me one bit for someone to say it to me, but as stated, it can come off as odd and could perhaps lead someone prone to people-pleasing to view their actions in sobriety as being for someone else's approval rather than for their own wellbeing. 

Especially for someone new in sobriety, I think it is preferable to reinforce that you are happy for them, and not come off as patting them on the head and saying "Good Boy" ....even if that isn't the intent.

[BearSchlong 8110]

Agreed, I have a mental block against saying "proud" - simply because it's been pounded into me by sponsor and grandsponsor and the book that all my character defects are derivatives of "pride and ego" and whoops that is a bad thing for someone trying to err on the side of humility.

I have no problem telling my 20 yr old daughter that I'm proud of her though, different type of relationship.

Edited January 16, 2021 by BearSchlong

[Celery Man 20996]

I love work conferences when all the non alcoholics make jokes about being alcoholics. It's only funnier when it's a virtual conference.

[ztejas 43532]

I think being proud of yourself and being overly prideful are two different things. And I'm not sure I'd necessarily call pride a bad thing. I mean - I understand where y'all are coming from - but when my parents especially tell me they're proud of me it's a little affirming. It's their way of saying they know it's hard and that I'm trying to do the right thing and that there is forgiveness for not only the past but the present is it to not go as planned. 

Within the program - and I'm sure Bear might be operating on this line of thinking - I agree that it's kind of a weird thing to say you're "proud" of someone because it almost implies that they've reached a set goal or the end of a journey. It's a daily reprieve for everyone regardless of sober time - so if you're going to be proud of someone, be proud that they didn't drink today. That's really all we have to be proud of. We can be proud of all of the work we have put in since making this change in our lives - but it's a slippery slope once you start laurel resting - and I'm saying that from experience. I can go around saying "I'm really proud I have x months clean, I'm really proud I didn't drink today" but what about tomorrow, motherfucker? That's the only day that's going to matter tomorrow.

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

13 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I think being proud of yourself and being overly prideful are two different things. And I'm not sure I'd necessarily call pride a bad thing. I mean - I understand where y'all are coming from - but when my parents especially tell me they're proud of me it's a little affirming. It's their way of saying they know it's hard and that I'm trying to do the right thing and that there is forgiveness for not only the past but the present is it to not go as planned. 

Within the program - and I'm sure Bear might be operating on this line of thinking - I agree that it's kind of a weird thing to say you're "proud" of someone because it almost implies that they've reached a set goal or the end of a journey. It's a daily reprieve for everyone regardless of sober time - so if you're going to be proud of someone, be proud that they didn't drink today. That's really all we have to be proud of. We can be proud of all of the work we have put in since making this change in our lives - but it's a slippery slope once you start laurel resting - and I'm saying that from experience. I can go around saying "I'm really proud I have x months clean, I'm really proud I didn't drink today" but what about tomorrow, motherfucker? That's the only day that's going to matter tomorrow.

I struggle with this a little, too. I've been asked if I'm proud of myself and I usually say that I'm not because I got myself into this mess. They think that's not giving myself enough, or any credit. But really, I don't think I deserve any credit. I was a drunk, worthless asshole for 20 years. Nobody brought that on me. On the other hand, I am proud of myself, to an extent. I just downplay it, and like you said, you have to be careful resting on laurels, so maybe it's a bit of self-preservation as well. 

Either way, it still makes me feel good and uneasy at the same time. 

 

[hullabelew 3724]

Well said @BBQ2Bayou  I feel the same way.  

[BearSchlong 8110]

10 years continuous sobriety today. If anything, I'm just humbled.  My daughter is flying in from MO to give me my chip at the home group next Friday.  Actually, she's giving me my dad's 10 year chip, which he drilled and wore on his keyring for all of 2003.

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

That's huge, Bear. All around. Guessing there will be a few tears with that one. That's pretty special to share with your daughter. 

 

[Clintonaldo 2576]

14 days of no alcohol and 8 days being a first time dad and loving it. I love drinking beer but there is better stuff for me to do now. I might drink again in a few months but then again I might not. I made a joke that actually made me start wondering when I told someone I was afraid I won’t like alcohol anymore. I think there might be some truth in that. 

[pch 1261]

Yesterday was a day filled with the entire emotional spectrum. We received our new puppies and the joy they brought us from the first time we saw them filled our hearts.  Watching the brother and sister run around the yard playing put smiles on both of our faces.  To know they will be our responsibility gives us both a sense of responsibility and purpose which being a good pet owner should have.  Both of us have long term sobriety and they will never see us drunk nor want for anything in terms of their care.

About an hour later, my daughter in law in California called and was crying hysterically.  She was able to tell me that my son Clark was gone.  I asked her what she meant, and the replied "He is dead. I can't wake him up, he is cold and not breathing.  I called 911 and they are coming."  Clark has been an addict since a teenager, been in treatment several times, and had never been able to overcome his clinically diagnosed depression.  For the last six months he has been abusing nitrous oxide and slipping deeper and deeper into the abyss.  His wife had to leave the house Friday night because he was off the rails and abusing her emotionally.  When she returned on Saturday, he had died.

This morning through my tears, I chaired the 7am zoom meeting for my group.  I spent the better part of yesterday calling members of my group and telling him my son had died because without help, it is too much for us.  God provided His angels yesterday through the phone and this morning at the meeting.  Though my heart is broken, it shall be mended by the process of living life one day at a time, practicing the principles of recovery, and helping another alcoholic who is seeking a way out from under.  I have learned that rather than drinking or doing other things to change my feelings, I can feel them instead, even when I wish I didn't have to.  Clark is no longer suffering and is free from the bondage that kept him in pain for so long.  The last words we said to each other this past Wednesday were "I love you and can't wait to see you again."  Soon and very soon, this to shall be. One day at a time, very soon.

[Kennythetiger 9452]

Fuck. Two kids in two weeks for Shagsters. 
pch, I am very sorry for your loss.  I will be thinking of you today. 

[TwiceHorn 31534]

Oof.  Condolences, pch.

[SwanderedTalent 5761]

sorry for your loss, pch