I'm An Alcoholic

[TwiceHorn 31,436]

4 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Good discussion.

Out of curiosity, if a blind survey asked the people closest to you about your drinking what would they say?

If there is a problem - not saying there is - but the alcoholic is usually the last to know.

Yeah, that's a good point.  Friends and loved ones can see things with an objectivity the alcoholic can't.  The disease -- the alcoholic brain -- is in nearly full-time cornered-wolverine mode to protect that stream of sweet, sweet ethanol, and will "lie to you" about what is apparent to others and should be obvious to the alcoholic.  If you ask, they'll probably shoot you straight, and if you're an alky, you won't want to hear it and will try your damndest to dismiss it.

Every alky seems to think going to treatment is going to be some big embarrassing revelation.  And every alky learns that everyone already knows and is relieved to see them getting help. 

[Reagan1k 3,024]

8 hours ago, BBQ2Bayou said:

 

Progressive is a word that gets thrown out a lot with alcoholism. And for good reason. I used to think alcoholism was a weakness, not a disease and progressive was tolerance, not a condition. It took me a while to admit that I had a progressive disease.  Not saying that's you, brother, just sharing where my mind was when hearing words like disease and progressive and alcoholism. 

It's great to have a new season of college football to watch sober. Never thought I'd say that.

Yeah-  when I heard the progressive discussion at my first meeting, I thought they meant my tolerance.  I came to learn quickly that the progressiveness is my growing dependence on the bottle in general and the lengths I’m willing to go to get it (compromising my morals, lying, hiding).

I drew lines in the sand saying I’ll never or I’ll quit if I ever…. But I blew through every one of those.  That’s what progresses.   More and more and more mental energy is focused on when I get to drink and how much can I have. 

[TwiceHorn 31,436]

9 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Yeah-  when I heard the progressive discussion at my first meeting, I thought they meant my tolerance.  I came to learn quickly that the progressiveness is my growing dependence on the bottle in general and the lengths I’m willing to go to get it (compromising my morals, lying, hiding).

I drew lines in the sand saying I’ll never or I’ll quit if I ever…. But I blew through every one of those.  That’s what progresses.   More and more and more mental energy is focused on when I get to drink and how much can I have. 

The other thing about progressiveness that I didn't get until I compiled a year of white-knuckle sobriety is that you don't "get better" with extended periods of abstinence.  When I went back out, within a week of that first drink, I was as bad as I had been a year earlier when I quit.  There's no "reset."

I have no desire to find out, but after 23.7 years of sobriety, which is actually considerably longer than my drinking career, if I started back up again, I'm fairly certain it would be a matter of days before I was as bad as I was 24 years ago: doing my damnedest to structure my life to keep the booze flowing and frequently fading into oblivion.

"The Carpet Slippers" appears initially to be one of the taller tales in the stories of the Big Book, but, like all of them, it is accurate.

[Dewey 3,286]

As an alcoholic,  it's is most true that a lot of things I have done/do in life are that of excess,  including my emotions.  I can let let the tiniest of things go for days, dwelling on them. It causes unrest, I get so tired of thinking about these little things that bother me. It was great to read this morning that reminder, to put some things in perspective,  whereas if I didn't have these things to remind me, I'd be a mess 100% of the time. My goals are to be sober and to grow, and I only grow a little bit at a time. I look forward to the day where I can better recognize the littles things as little and focus on what's really important,  my family,  friends, health. 

I hope everyone is gaining a little bit day by day. 

[BearSchlong 8,083]

4 hours ago, Dewey said:

As an alcoholic,  it's is most true that a lot of things I have done/do in life are that of excess,  including my emotions.  I can let let the tiniest of things go for days, dwelling on them. It causes unrest, I get so tired of thinking about these little things that bother me. It was great to read this morning that reminder, to put some things in perspective,  whereas if I didn't have these things to remind me, I'd be a mess 100% of the time. My goals are to be sober and to grow, and I only grow a little bit at a time. I look forward to the day where I can better recognize the littles things as little and focus on what's really important,  my family,  friends, health. 

I hope everyone is gaining a little bit day by day. 

Damned good post. I'll say it again - damned good post.  So accurate.

Thanks God for carrying me through all that discomfort.

[Bash Riprock 1,695]

Still in sober living and IOP. Going to the Tech game this weekend with some sober buddies. Shaq is DJing a tailgate. That'll be interesting to watch sober.

[ernest_t_bass 1,196]

Soda Stream FTW

[deadshank 24,652]

Lads, I, along with a few other friends, need to confront a friend in our circle about his alcoholism.  He’s highly successful, a good guy but just completely off the rails.   It won’t be pretty and a lot of denial and deflection will be the order of the day.
 

Any advice?   

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

6 hours ago, deadshank said:

Lads, I, along with a few other friends, need to confront a friend in our circle about his alcoholism.  He’s highly successful, a good guy but just completely off the rails.   It won’t be pretty and a lot of denial and deflection will be the order of the day.
 

Any advice?   

Has he expressed to others that he considers his drinking a problem, or does he blame his consequences on others and circumstances?

[deadshank 24,652]

2 hours ago, JohnnyRage said:

Has he expressed to others that he considers his drinking a problem, or does he blame his consequences on others and circumstances?

He hasn’t acknowledged anything or brought up the topic.  He has never been questioned or confronted. 

[TwiceHorn 31,436]

33 minutes ago, deadshank said:

He hasn’t acknowledged anything or brought up the topic.  He has never been questioned or confronted. 

It might be worthwhile to involve an interventionist.

[ztejas 43,411]

1 hour ago, deadshank said:

He hasn’t acknowledged anything or brought up the topic.  He has never been questioned or confronted. 

 

26 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It might be worthwhile to involve an interventionist.

Involving an interventionist would seem step 2 to me. Step 1 is set up a very comfortable setting for him where those close to him can express how they feel.

 i.e. the initial "intervention" process. Where coworkers, friends and family (and any combination of those three depending on fit or need) can express how they feel and in effect utilize their persuasive power through emotion. 

I'd see how he responds and either go from there or regroup depending on whether or not the result is positive.

Some people when they are exposed to that initial intervention have an ability to clean their act up quickly because they didn't realize how much their actions were affecting those they loved.

For others... It can get more tricky - especially when substance abuse issues hang around. In those cases I would 100% reccomend an interventionist. Optimally on top of some good psychiatric and theraputical help.

Edited September 15, 2021 by ztejas

[deadshank 24,652]

24 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

It might be worthwhile to involve an interventionist.

Good point.   This won’t go well.  

[TwiceHorn 31,436]

5 minutes ago, deadshank said:

Good point.   This won’t go well.  

I think ztejas is right, it would be highly unusual if the first "confrontation," no matter how well handled, ended up producing positive results.  But sometimes you never know.

So maybe a "pro" might be better reserved for round 2 or 3.

In any event, I think the goal is to express concern rather than accuse, but that can be a fine line.  You're supposed to hit him up with the initial concern and follow it up with examples of things he's done/that have happened.  And, you're supposed to have some alternative lined up, like a rehab, or at least an AA meeting.

The most old-school approach is to do what you're doing in a more "meatworld" setting. https://aahouston.org/

Oddly, this thread/board doesn't seem to have a lot of representation from H-town.  But it would not be at all strange to the person on the other end of the line if you were to call up Houston Intergroup and ask for some help.  We call them "12th step calls" and they can send an experienced drunk (haha, you know what I mean) out to talk to him in the way that only one drunk can talk to another.

[ztejas 43,411]

Either way God bless for your friend @deadshank - and definitely come back here if you have questions. None of us are the end all be all but I'd hope we can at least expand your horizon and help turn the gears in your own head.

Peace and again God bless ✌

[hullabelew 3,723]

It really hit me when different friends, from a few different friend groups, told me they were honestly worried about me.  It was over a few months, but at some point it really started to hit me.  Going to jail, waking up strange places, a couple of ER visits, not going home for days at a time, doctors' warnings.....none meant a fucking thing to me.  But when a couple of coworkers mentioned it, then a couple of day drinking buddies, then even a couple of bartenders start telling you they are worried about it....it starts to make a dent.   

About a month ago, I stopped in to an old day drinking spot and told one of the bartenders THANKS for looking out for me.  She had cut me off one time....just said, "I don't think that's a good idea".  At the time, I remember thinking, "I must be really fucking up if she doesn't want to sell me and my new buddies here a few more cocktails".  She kind of laughed at first, then started tearing up.  She didn't remember it but told me it meant a lot to her that I told her about it.  

[deadshank 24,652]

1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

I think ztejas is right, it would be highly unusual if the first "confrontation," no matter how well handled, ended up producing positive results.  But sometimes you never know.

So maybe a "pro" might be better reserved for round 2 or 3.

In any event, I think the goal is to express concern rather than accuse, but that can be a fine line.  You're supposed to hit him up with the initial concern and follow it up with examples of things he's done/that have happened.  And, you're supposed to have some alternative lined up, like a rehab, or at least an AA meeting.

The most old-school approach is to do what you're doing in a more "meatworld" setting. https://aahouston.org/

Oddly, this thread/board doesn't seem to have a lot of representation from H-town.  But it would not be at all strange to the person on the other end of the line if you were to call up Houston Intergroup and ask for some help.  We call them "12th step calls" and they can send an experienced drunk (haha, you know what I mean) out to talk to him in the way that only one drunk can talk to another.

I believe the first contact will be made by the circle of friends.   It would be a little aggressive to show up with a professional before the band got warmed up. 
 

It’s funny you mention the lack of Houston reps on this thread.  The guy I’m talking about is in Austin (Drip).   The group that would show up for him is all in Houston with the notable exception of one SA guy.  Further, the SA guy came to terms with his alcoholism a year ago, now an AA stalwart and a pleasure to be around again. 
 

note: I’ve missed the last 3 years of our annual Devil’s River conclave due to the fact that I can’t take being around the complete and incoherent drunken buffoonery by the guy in question for 4 days.   It’s not the fun, “hey!  let’s have a few drinks and maybe overdo it a night or two.”  It’s 24-hour a day, straight up Bacardi 151 on the rocks, 4WD, light myself in fire stupidity.  
 

Ive gone incommunicado with the group and they have asked my business partner that also goes why I don’t show up.   He’s made excuses for me that don’t hold up anymore. 
 

Time for some truth telling and love for the guy.  

[TwiceHorn 31,436]

11 minutes ago, deadshank said:

I believe the first contact will be made by the circle of friends.   It would be a little aggressive to show up with a professional before the band got warmed up. 
 

It’s funny you mention the lack of Houston reps on this thread.  The guy I’m talking about is in Austin (Drip).   The group that would show up for him is all in Houston with the notable exception of one SA guy.  Further, the SA guy came to terms with his alcoholism a year ago, now an AA stalwart and a pleasure to be around again. 
 

note: I’ve missed the last 3 years of our annual Devil’s River conclave due to the fact that I can’t take being around the complete and incoherent drunken buffoonery by the guy in question for 4 days.   It’s not the fun, “hey!  let’s have a few drinks and maybe overdo it a night or two.”  It’s 24-hour a day, straight up Bacardi 151 on the rocks, 4WD, light myself in fire stupidity.  
 

Ive gone incommunicado with the group and they have asked my business partner that also goes why I don’t show up.   He’s made excuses for me that don’t hold up anymore. 
 

Time for some truth telling and love for the guy.  

Well, if you have some AA folk involved, then you're on the right track.

There's no right way to do it really.  Fairly obviously, the guy is probably going to be defensive as hell, so you want to avoid "accusation" as long as possible to keep that at bay.

[BearSchlong 8,083]

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Telling the truth especially to people you care about is the rational solution, just as lying about it as to protect their feelings is disingenous.

The truth is definitely on your side here. "I choose to not spend time with you when you're drinking" is a good place to start.

One of my favorite al anon concepts is "to allow him the dignity of experiencing the direct consequences of his behavior."

As a recovered alcoholic, I have to cherish the authenticity of hitting bottom, as its the asset finally leveraged into genuine humility and a meaningful existence.

To twicehorns point, accusations will evoke initial oppositional defiance, probably followed with grudging acknowledgement if the man is capable of self appraisal and honesty.

I would stick with "I" statements because he needs to see how his drinking affects his friends. "I don't know if you're an alcoholic, its a self diagnosed disease, BUT the reason I don't hang with you anymore is because you're an exhausting beat down and when you're drunk it takes away from the enjoyable experience. What used to be fun is now something I dread, and frankly I've got better things to do."

In his heart, he probably knows, his head just has to drop the armor and face facts.

[deadshank 24,652]

A big “thank you” to the guys that have posted replies, offered insight and revealed their own experiences.  You are good men.  
 

Even for small life issues it takes a lot to recognize and do something about our own shortcomings.  Substance dependency is a demon I pray I never face.  God bless you all. 

[Bash Riprock 1,695]

Tomorrow will be 30 days sober. 

Yesterday I was thinking that I'm glad I'm an alcoholic. I'm glad that my body has a negative reaction to alcohol. It's not good for you in the first place. And also I appreciate the struggle and the journey. The people you meet that have done the same crazy shit you have. They don't judge you when you tell your story or have a perplexed look on their face. You hear their stories and they share their wisdom and it's some real valuable data that might help save your own life. I feel better physically. My face doesnt look like a puffed up tomato. I sleep soundly. The best part of my day is in the morning. I roll out of bed, get on my knees and pray. When I pray I'm noticing lately that I'm not asking for things instead I am thanking my higher power. 

Psalm 40:2

He lifted me out of the pit of death, out of the mud and filth, and set my feet on solid rock. He steadied my legs.

I hope everyone in this thread is having a good day. A day that they overcame and experienced life they way they were meant to.

 

[Brisketexan 105,053]

Deadshank, from one normie to another who has run the drill you're running a few times . . . it's important that you prepare yourself for the very likely outcome of failure.  The reaction is more often than not one that ends up not seeking a better path.  It may be utter defensiveness and shifting all blame, it may be lying, it may be sounding sincere, acknowledging and accepting the truth . . . but just to get y'all off his back in the moment.  Or any number of other forms of avoidance.

You've heard it from the alcoholics on here -- they get help mostly when they've hit rock bottom and decide to get help.  You are not the persuader, you cannot be the convincer.  You can only present him with truth and facts that he can no longer run away from.  The hope is that eventually, the weight of those facts and truth will cause him to hit bottom and choose to get help.

I wish you luck.  This shit is hard.

[deadshank 24,652]

26 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Deadshank, from one normie to another who has run the drill you're running a few times . . . it's important that you prepare yourself for the very likely outcome of failure.  The reaction is more often than not one that ends up not seeking a better path.  It may be utter defensiveness and shifting all blame, it may be lying, it may be sounding sincere, acknowledging and accepting the truth . . . but just to get y'all off his back in the moment.  Or any number of other forms of avoidance.

You've heard it from the alcoholics on here -- they get help mostly when they've hit rock bottom and decide to get help.  You are not the persuader, you cannot be the convincer.  You can only present him with truth and facts that he can no longer run away from.  The hope is that eventually, the weight of those facts and truth will cause him to hit bottom and choose to get help.

I wish you luck.  This shit is hard.

I hear you. I’ve got an alcoholic FIL and BIL although I’m not sure my FIL is an alcoholic.  BIL is for sure.  
 

FIL quit cold turkey mostly because he probably wasn't an alcoholic but just got tired of my MIL bitching and blaming.  Whatever. 
 

BIL has had a rough go.  He’s looking good now but I know the monster is right around the corner for him.  He’s got that personality that craves the fast lane and attention.  He’s the one I worry about.  
 

I was not a around either when they started their recovery journey but I do know it’s harrowing, touch & go and fraught with setbacks.   
 

Thanks for the input.  

[Reagan1k 3,024]

3 hours ago, deadshank said:

I hear you. I’ve got an alcoholic FIL and BIL although I’m not sure my FIL is an alcoholic.  BIL is for sure.  
 

FIL quit cold turkey mostly because he probably wasn't an alcoholic but just got tired of my MIL bitching and blaming.  Whatever. 
 

BIL has had a rough go.  He’s looking good now but I know the monster is right around the corner for him.  He’s got that personality that craves the fast lane and attention.  He’s the one I worry about.  
 

I was not a around either when they started their recovery journey but I do know it’s harrowing, touch & go and fraught with setbacks.   
 

Thanks for the input.  

I certainly hope you and your team are successful.  One thing "I think I think" is that while all alcoholics can't imagine life without alcohol, those that are receptive to help are the ones who still can't imagine life without alcohol, but get to the point they can no longer imagine life WITH alcohol.  That points to Bear's comments about allowing them the dignity to experience their own consequences.  Many die before they get there, but we can recover if we want it and are rigorously honest with ourselves and others.

Without consequences, the screaming disease in the mind drowns out logic and reality.  It says we're losing our best friend and our lifeline to ease and comfort.  When the heart and soul get sick and tired of being sick and tired - the the gut level feeling of knowing it can't go on like this opens the blinders to another way of life.

I pray your team and those around him can break through that barrier and he comes to realize he can't live with alcohol any longer.  Having an recovered/recovering alcoholic talk the language will really help.  Seeing a living, breathing, at ease soul who had the same horrific fears about how he'll navigate life without his crutch is the gift of hope for us.  It literally feels impossible to us, until we see evidence it can happen, hear our own story in someone else's, relate, and think...maybe there's a chance.

Godspeed.

 

[TwiceHorn 31,436]

13 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Sunlight is the best disinfectant.

Telling the truth especially to people you care about is the rational solution, just as lying about it as to protect their feelings is disingenous.

The truth is definitely on your side here. "I choose to not spend time with you when you're drinking" is a good place to start.

One of my favorite al anon concepts is "to allow him the dignity of experiencing the direct consequences of his behavior."

As a recovered alcoholic, I have to cherish the authenticity of hitting bottom, as its the asset finally leveraged into genuine humility and a meaningful existence.

To twicehorns point, accusations will evoke initial oppositional defiance, probably followed with grudging acknowledgement if the man is capable of self appraisal and honesty.

I would stick with "I" statements because he needs to see how his drinking affects his friends. "I don't know if you're an alcoholic, its a self diagnosed disease, BUT the reason I don't hang with you anymore is because you're an exhausting beat down and when you're drunk it takes away from the enjoyable experience. What used to be fun is now something I dread, and frankly I've got better things to do."

In his heart, he probably knows, his head just has to drop the armor and face facts.


 

That's huge.  Like a "wife fight," avoid "you" and stick with "I."  A good way to stay clean in a situation like this.

Perhaps that's obvious to normies, or not, I don't know.

[El Diablo 4,232]

Maybe consult an interventionist beforehand. I would think a good plan that all parties are on the same page with would be optimal. I don't know if the friend has experienced any significant consequences up to this point but if not then this intervention should serve as a starting point. The consequences have to have meaning to the individual so consider that also. Marriage, job, social standing etc... most all have probably been touched by this time but if everyone has held their tongue or tiptoed around the subject then it may be time to set out some rules for further engagement. Wife not going to wake him up when he oversleeps, friends not coming to get him when he can't drive and call a Uber instead. Eh, hope you get the idea. People have to be somewhat committed to their role in the plan I think for the best outcome.

Was told in a meeting early on that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. You CAN however show the horse how refreshing the water is, how clean it smells, how cool it is to the touch. Make the horse thirsty.

And don't forget consequences, it's all about the consequences. 

Good luck and Gobless. 

[Kennythetiger 9,374]

1 hour ago, El Diablo said:

Was told in a meeting early on that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. You CAN however show the horse how refreshing the water is, how clean it smells, how cool it is to the touch. Make the horse thirsty.

My group’s guy with 50+ years says “You can’t make the horse drink but you can sure put salt in his feed.”

[closetohumping 17,433]

On 9/4/2021 at 2:44 PM, BearSchlong said:

Good discussion.

Out of curiosity, if a blind survey asked the people closest to you about your drinking what would they say?

If there is a problem - not saying there is - but the alcoholic is usually the last to know.

I don't know.  I sense that most of my friends drink more than I do.  I'm not sure I have a problem, to be real.  And that's not meant to insult anybody here facing a real challenge.

On 9/4/2021 at 5:40 AM, TwiceHorn said:

Anyone with human physiology will develop a tolerance for alcohol.  They will also suffer withdrawal after prolonged "usage."

Neither of those things make you an alcoholic.

It does seem that part of the physiology of being an alcoholic is developing a tolerance faster than most.  I was at the point that three drinks was nothing in high school, for example.  And that was drinking fast in the surreptitious underage way.

But a normal human can quit drinking, suffer through any withdrawal, and be fine.  An alky will be climbing the walls weeks or months after withdrawal, if s/he lasts that long.

Also, both alkies and normies feel great after quitting drinking.  But the alky will stop feeling great, start feeling weird, and will start drinking again under less than ideal circumstances; that is, there will always be a compulsive, "I don't want this" aspect to it.

 

On 9/4/2021 at 5:01 AM, Kennythetiger said:

Quit for a month, just for fun. If you can’t do that, come on back. 

 

On 9/4/2021 at 9:55 AM, BearSchlong said:

Not speaking for you at all, but this is what I call "drinking myself sober"

For me personally, I'd be staring at an empty bottle at the end of the night with the realization that this wasn't cutting it anymore, and that I was probably an alcoholic and that this sucked.

Not alcoholic like "I'm so and so and I'm a grateful sober alcoholic" alcoholic, more like I am expert level, Like kids don't try this at home alcoholic, im a pro and I'll probably just die like this at some point and that is depressing alcoholic. I mean, I'd stop but whats the point?

Thankfully I got whooped sober a few months later.

10 yrs sober, just took my 29 year sober dad fishing, and between catching specks he is answering the local AA intergroup phone, routing drunks to meetings, like he is prone to do on the weekends.

What a life!

Yeah but I had to drink myself sober first.

 

'

Yesterday was the first night i did not have at least one drink, it's been roughly 2 months.  I know my body needs a rest, I'm worried I'm beating up my liver.  I drink from 9 am to 9 pm on Saturday and again, could not get drunk.  No buzz or anything.  I intentionally slowed myself down though, so maybe that was it, but in the old days, 3-5 drinks would get me at least a buzz.

[Kennythetiger 9,374]

So what are you planning on doing?  
p.s.- Most of my friends drank more than me, too. They still do, and they’re still my friends. Not a good measuring stick. 

[BearSchlong 8,083]

@closetohumping thanks for the report. Btw It is almost impossible to offend an alcoholic who knows the truth about himself.

Remember, we are not recruiting or selling anything.

The only thing I hope for you is that you find resolution, whatever that looks like.

Honesty. What does your gut tell you?

[closetohumping 17,433]

3 hours ago, Kennythetiger said:

So what are you planning on doing?  
p.s.- Most of my friends drank more than me, too. They still do, and they’re still my friends. Not a good measuring stick. 

Only drink on Friday night and Saturday.  Yesterday, watched an exciting NFL game, GB vs SF sober.  It was not easy. Not saying I am or am not an alcoholic.

[closetohumping 17,433]

3 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

@closetohumping thanks for the report. Btw It is almost impossible to offend an alcoholic who knows the truth about himself.

Remember, we are not recruiting or selling anything.

The only thing I hope for you is that you find resolution, whatever that looks like.

Honesty. What does your gut tell you?

Gut tells me I have OCD and tend to be very compulsive.  Also, as someone said above, I frequently let little things eat at me for years.  Drinking seems to alleviate things. Yes, I can drink to relax, but I often drink with an end in mind, which is to pass out because it just feels so great, I can't explain it.  I'm watching MNF today with no plans on drinking. And, it just tastes so good.  Alcohol pleases my taste buds.

[Kennythetiger 9,374]

17 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Gut tells me I have OCD and tend to be very compulsive.  Also, as someone said above, I frequently let little things eat at me for years.  Drinking seems to alleviate things. Yes, I can drink to relax, but I often drink with an end in mind, which is to pass out because it just feels so great, I can't explain it.  I'm watching MNF today with no plans on drinking. And, it just tastes so good.  Alcohol pleases my taste buds.

I hate to tell you this, but you’re me. 🙂

[Reagan1k 3,024]

I never drank the way I really wanted to when in public.  I would control my drinking (would control it but wouldn't enjoy it) until I got home and could drink the way I wanted to. 

Socially, many of my friends would drink more than I.  The difference was they chose the amount they drank, enjoyed themselves, and when they went home, they went to bed.  For me, the only thing the few drinks I had would accomplished was to make me more thirsty. 

Had I drank in public like I really wanted to, I always picture the scene to be like in a movie when the needle is drug across a record and the whole party turns and stares in shock and silence.  Drinking vs. DRINKING - sort of like naked vs. nekkid.

[NoRagrets 1,125]

5 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Gut tells me I have OCD and tend to be very compulsive.  Also, as someone said above, I frequently let little things eat at me for years.  Drinking seems to alleviate things. Yes, I can drink to relax, but I often drink with an end in mind, which is to pass out because it just feels so great, I can't explain it.  I'm watching MNF today with no plans on drinking. And, it just tastes so good.  Alcohol pleases my taste buds.

(Caveat - I’m an idiot that knows nothing about addiction and such, but just feel like telling this story in support of what others have said about stopping for a bit)

I am not an alcoholic; can’t stand the hangovers. But I drank way too frequently during Covid, but usually just 2-3 per night. Anyway, would still wake up tired, dehydrated, and unmotivated. I think frequent consumption, even in small amounts, is just taxing on the body and mind.

Fast forward and I had to stop drinking for a few months to get some tests done, and even though I got the all clear to drink again, I just don’t want to.

TL;DR take an alcohol hiatus. If you need something, take a cbd. You might find that after a month or two, you’ll enjoy the way you feel.

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by NoRagrets

[BearSchlong 8,083]

I hate to tell you this, but you’re me.

I know, right?

So grateful I found the life hack to fix that problem, and for. Ot having to live that way anymore.

[BearSchlong 8,083]

19 hours ago, closetohumping said:

Gut tells me I have OCD and tend to be very compulsive.  Also, as someone said above, I frequently let little things eat at me for years.  Drinking seems to alleviate things. Yes, I can drink to relax, but I often drink with an end in mind, which is to pass out because it just feels so great, I can't explain it.  I'm watching MNF today with no plans on drinking. And, it just tastes so good.  Alcohol pleases my taste buds.

Wanted to elaborate on a few things, I really see a lot of value in your post.

Quote

Gut tells me I have OCD and tend to be very compulsive. 

1) Holy shit, me too. It's as if someone else is in control of my habits much of the time.  I've come to accept that I'm wired a certain way, it's not really something I can change, but that's not a bad thing - I just need to make sure that i'm not doing things that are harmful.  Drinking, eating, spending money, chasing women, watching porn, buying real estate and cars, and being obsessed with buying particular things (collecting?), eating pills, lifting weights. . . If I'm untreated, I will do all of these things.  My current compulsions are landscaping, keeping my lawns (currently I have several, though trying to sell one) mowed to a perfect height, to the point where I'll mow twice both with and against the grain.  I want things a certain way.  I'll even organize my boat and drive/navigate a similar route that I've driven a hundred times before, wondering how many feet I'm deviating from previous paths.  I literally will be driving 40 kts down the sabine ship channel out to the Gulf and will feel weird if I'm not on the exact same route that I've used hundreds of times previously.  Hell, my first thought his morning is that I had re-tilled my garden on Friday but not yet formed the rows for my winter garden and it's raining and it's gonna fuck up my sense of symetry. I can't stand sitting at a rectangular table with an odd number of people. Last week I was at an AA meeting and there were 4 people on one side of the table and 2 on the other and I had to acknowledge my discomfort with the situation, laugh at myself, and resist the urge to stand up, walk around the table, and sit down just to balance out the situation.

When I got into recovery, I found out that I was a perfectionist - letting go and embracing chaos/unpredictability on most things was liberating.

Quote

I frequently let little things eat at me for years

Don't laugh, but when I did my first resentment inventory on step 4 (made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves), my 3rd grade teacher and my little league coach both made it on that list.  I'm 49 and I can still remember the feelings of hurt when I took offense to things they said.  There were a whole lot of people on my resentment inventory, but those two stood out as perceived slights living rent free in my head.

Resentment = re-feeling of perceived slights.  I had to be free of the things that ate at me for years and kept me feeling less-than worthy.

 

Quote

Drinking seems to alleviate things. Yes, I can drink to relax, but I often drink with an end in mind, which is to pass out because it just feels so great, I can't explain it

Living without the warm fuzzy inebriation blanket is terrifying sometimes.  Alcohol did for me what nothing else could ever do, it gave me a sense of peace and comfort and for 22 years I drank for the effect.  It quieted my demons and took me to oblivion.  And my drink of choice was single malt scotch, at the perfect temperature, with just a few ice cubes which had melted just so.  I haven't had a drink for over 10 years and I can still see with 100% clarity what that looks, feels, smells, and tastes like.  I loved drinking more than I loved anything else.

But then. . .

I became convinced that my drinking was going to at some point become incompatible with something I discovered I loved even MORE, which was breathing.  Finally had the close call, the moment of clarity, the adrenal realization of "look at what you've done to yourself now" - and decided - for real this time - that I could imagine life without alcohol.  For me, a car wreck, which I've mentioned countless times. A painful, bloody, dramatic event which snapped me out of my delusion.

It was pointed out to my by my Dad, stepmom, mom, and sister that they were afraid that I was going to die, so I became willing to go to an AA meeting that very night.  I knew something was wrong, I just couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was.

So the first step of AA's suggested steps says "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable" - but to me the first part of that equation became easier to swallow once I saw the lack of manageability in my life.  I was circling the drain and finally realized it.

Last night I was at a meeting and commented about how the first few meetings I looked around the room and thought "If you dumb motherfuckers can do this, I know I can, just watch, I'll show you I can do this!!!" so in the beginning my ego helped me stay sober out of spite.  A guy I sponsor always said that he came into AA and did everthing that was suggested so that he could disprove it's effectiveness. . .he chuckles about this now, 7 years sober.

Yeah yeah, I'm an alcoholic, big whoop, that's of secondary importance to the facts as they present themselves, which are that I'm not functioning very well as a human being, in fact I might not be a living being much longer if I don't do something. . .

How do I become COMFORTABLE with being UNCOMFORTABLE? How do I embrace chaos, disorder, entropy, the world exactly as it is this moment? How do I find a meaningful, satisfying life? How do I fall in love with my current reality?

Honestly?  I found something better than booze.  It's a bunch of sober friends, and a belief in something bigger than me that I call God, that I can't really begin to describe to you other than cosmic energy and universal love and the friction of aggregate human consciousness.

This might or might not be helpful to you, but it sure is helpful to me when I write it out.

[closetohumping 17,433]

1 hour ago, BearSchlong said:

Wanted to elaborate on a few things, I really see a lot of value in your post.

1) Holy shit, me too. It's as if someone else is in control of my habits much of the time.  I've come to accept that I'm wired a certain way, it's not really something I can change, but that's not a bad thing - I just need to make sure that i'm not doing things that are harmful.  Drinking, eating, spending money, chasing women, watching porn, buying real estate and cars, and being obsessed with buying particular things (collecting?), eating pills, lifting weights. . . If I'm untreated, I will do all of these things.  My current compulsions are landscaping, keeping my lawns (currently I have several, though trying to sell one) mowed to a perfect height, to the point where I'll mow twice both with and against the grain.  I want things a certain way.  I'll even organize my boat and drive/navigate a similar route that I've driven a hundred times before, wondering how many feet I'm deviating from previous paths.  I literally will be driving 40 kts down the sabine ship channel out to the Gulf and will feel weird if I'm not on the exact same route that I've used hundreds of times previously.  Hell, my first thought his morning is that I had re-tilled my garden on Friday but not yet formed the rows for my winter garden and it's raining and it's gonna fuck up my sense of symetry. I can't stand sitting at a rectangular table with an odd number of people. Last week I was at an AA meeting and there were 4 people on one side of the table and 2 on the other and I had to acknowledge my discomfort with the situation, laugh at myself, and resist the urge to stand up, walk around the table, and sit down just to balance out the situation.

When I got into recovery, I found out that I was a perfectionist - letting go and embracing chaos/unpredictability on most things was liberating.

Don't laugh, but when I did my first resentment inventory on step 4 (made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves), my 3rd grade teacher and my little league coach both made it on that list.  I'm 49 and I can still remember the feelings of hurt when I took offense to things they said.  There were a whole lot of people on my resentment inventory, but those two stood out as perceived slights living rent free in my head.

Resentment = re-feeling of perceived slights.  I had to be free of the things that ate at me for years and kept me feeling less-than worthy.

 

Living without the warm fuzzy inebriation blanket is terrifying sometimes.  Alcohol did for me what nothing else could ever do, it gave me a sense of peace and comfort and for 22 years I drank for the effect.  It quieted my demons and took me to oblivion.  And my drink of choice was single malt scotch, at the perfect temperature, with just a few ice cubes which had melted just so.  I haven't had a drink for over 10 years and I can still see with 100% clarity what that looks, feels, smells, and tastes like.  I loved drinking more than I loved anything else.

But then. . .

I became convinced that my drinking was going to at some point become incompatible with something I discovered I loved even MORE, which was breathing.  Finally had the close call, the moment of clarity, the adrenal realization of "look at what you've done to yourself now" - and decided - for real this time - that I could imagine life without alcohol.  For me, a car wreck, which I've mentioned countless times. A painful, bloody, dramatic event which snapped me out of my delusion.

It was pointed out to my by my Dad, stepmom, mom, and sister that they were afraid that I was going to die, so I became willing to go to an AA meeting that very night.  I knew something was wrong, I just couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was.

So the first step of AA's suggested steps says "We admitted we were powerless over alcohol, that our lives had become unmanageable" - but to me the first part of that equation became easier to swallow once I saw the lack of manageability in my life.  I was circling the drain and finally realized it.

Last night I was at a meeting and commented about how the first few meetings I looked around the room and thought "If you dumb motherfuckers can do this, I know I can, just watch, I'll show you I can do this!!!" so in the beginning my ego helped me stay sober out of spite.  A guy I sponsor always said that he came into AA and did everthing that was suggested so that he could disprove it's effectiveness. . .he chuckles about this now, 7 years sober.

Yeah yeah, I'm an alcoholic, big whoop, that's of secondary importance to the facts as they present themselves, which are that I'm not functioning very well as a human being, in fact I might not be a living being much longer if I don't do something. . .

How do I become COMFORTABLE with being UNCOMFORTABLE? How do I embrace chaos, disorder, entropy, the world exactly as it is this moment? How do I find a meaningful, satisfying life? How do I fall in love with my current reality?

Honestly?  I found something better than booze.  It's a bunch of sober friends, and a belief in something bigger than me that I call God, that I can't really begin to describe to you other than cosmic energy and universal love and the friction of aggregate human consciousness.

This might or might not be helpful to you, but it sure is helpful to me when I write it out.

This was very helpful.  It's odd, I do my best to block off bad things that have happened to me, because if they don't, they still bother me.  For example, a customer lied to me once about an incident at my work place.  He basically cheated me out of 20.000.  This was ten years ago.  It still bothers me.

[Reagan1k 3,024]

1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

This was very helpful.  It's odd, I do my best to block off bad things that have happened to me, because if they don't, they still bother me.  For example, a customer lied to me once about an incident at my work place.  He basically cheated me out of 20.000.  This was ten years ago.  It still bothers me.

That's not odd in my club!!!!!!!!!!!

A stranger said something to me in a restaurant once (it was possibly tinged in sarcasm from my perception)  in the late 90's and I didn't have a good comeback but thought of one 3 days later....after hours of spinning over it.

I looked for her every time I went back there and fanaticized about when I would see her ........and I'd say this and she'd say that then I'd do this and she'd do tha................

Hours spent reliving / re-feeling something  - only about 1% of which ever happened.  She made my resentment list. 

My sponsor pointed out that had I actually run into her years later (hell, even minutes later), she'd have thought I was a mental ward escapee babbling incoherently.

[closetohumping 17,433]

22 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

That's not odd in my club!!!!!!!!!!!

A stranger said something to me in a restaurant once (it was possibly tinged in sarcasm from my perception)  in the late 90's and I didn't have a good comeback but thought of one 3 days later....after hours of spinning over it.

I looked for her every time I went back there and fanaticized about when I would see her ........and I'd say this and she'd say that then I'd do this and she'd do tha................

Hours spent reliving / re-feeling something  - only about 1% of which ever happened.  She made my resentment list. 

My sponsor pointed out that had I actually run into her years later (hell, even minutes later), she'd have thought I was a mental ward escapee babbling incoherently.

Oh yes, I'll also make it worse than it really was.  Like he had planned it.  I sometimes have a me vs the world approach and it used to be if I get cut off in traffic I take it personally.  That is thankfully gone.

[Abogado Peligroso 89]

22 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

I never drank the way I really wanted to when in public.  I would control my drinking (would control it but wouldn't enjoy it) until I got home and could drink the way I wanted to. 

Socially, many of my friends would drink more than I.  The difference was they chose the amount they drank, enjoyed themselves, and when they went home, they went to bed.  For me, the only thing the few drinks I had would accomplished was to make me more thirsty. 

Man this part describes me so well it’s almost like I wrote it myself.  

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,508]

Maybe one of you here can give me some advice as it's related to addictions. My mom (80s) has some co-dependency with my drug-addicted niece. It's one lie after another so my mom gives almost her entire retirement income away each month. It's really coming to a head now as its escalated to an unsustainable point. I'm taking over the finances 100% so I can put a stop to that but how can I kill the co-dependency part? Luckily they're not in the same city so its mainly calls and texts all day long. 

I know that my mom will soon start to beg me to give money to my niece. I won't but I don't want to hear the crying and begging. I'm about to kick my mom out of my life because I'm sick of it.

 

[Kennythetiger 9,374]

I’d maybe take a deep breath and relax a little bit. Serenity prayer would be good for you, too. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,508]

41 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

I’d maybe take a deep breath and relax a little bit. Serenity prayer would be good for you, too. 

Good advice. 

[Nice Guy Eddie 13,508]

41 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

I’d maybe take a deep breath and relax a little bit. Serenity prayer would be good for you, too. 

Good advice. 

[Abogado Peligroso 89]

I also just wanted to circle back on the eve of completing 8 months without alcohol.  
 

The positive changes in my life are palpable, remarkable and numerous.  My relationships with my wife and with each of my kids are amazing.  I thought I was a good dad and husband before I quit drinking due to my effort and by how much I truly loved my kids and wife. I am so much more centered in every interaction and I can feel the emotional trust they are giving me.   My apologies if I am not describing it well. 
 

With my work, it’s as if I ripped a governor from myself.  I have always been pretty successful but addled with anxiety about work.  I am just running laps around my former self in approach, drive, work product, interpersonal relationships at work and results.  
 

I know there will be challenges and I am only (almost) 8 months in, but I dare anyone to bet against me. 

[BearSchlong 8,083]

Maybe one of you here can give me some advice as it's related to addictions. My mom (80s) has some co-dependency with my drug-addicted niece. It's one lie after another so my mom gives almost her entire retirement income away each month. It's really coming to a head now as its escalated to an unsustainable point. I'm taking over the finances 100% so I can put a stop to that but how can I kill the co-dependency part? Luckily they're not in the same city so its mainly calls and texts all day long. 
I know that my mom will soon start to beg me to give money to my niece. I won't but I don't want to hear the crying and begging. I'm about to kick my mom out of my life because I'm sick of it.
 

Look at it from this perspective - Mom, its time to give her the dignity to experience the direct consequences of her actions.

Many times the enablers provide an artificial barrier between an addict and their "hitting bottom." Which if you stop to think about it is actually playing "God" in someone else's life and might be inadvertently killing them slowly.

AA literature describes a moment where all human resources are thoroughly exhausted, and the sufferer is thus beyond human aid. That opens the door to willingness to consider a spiritual solution, putting themselves in God's or a higher power's hands.

So you and mom are actually providing a valuable service, helping her reach a consequential decision point in her disease.

Al Anon might be useful for mom and perhaps even you. The concept of detaching with love is a powerful tool.

[hullabelew 3,723]

The day I went to treatment, I looked into the bathroom mirror at home and thought to myself, "This is hopefully the last time you will see yourself in this mirror like this."

On my last day at treatment, on of the guys in my cabin walked by as I was shaving.  He said, "This is the last time you will see yourself in that mirror."  Something about the change I had been through in those 28 days and thinking about his comment really hit me.  I told him about my comment 28 days before and we talked a long time about it.  

I saw him last night in a  weekly Zoom aftercare meeting the treatment center runs.  I talk to him every week....but this was the first time I had seen him in over 2 years.   Took me immediately back to that day and I shared with the group about what that comment meant to me.  Up until that point, I was having a shitty day but seeing him and talking about it, and again thanking him, really turned my day around.  

[Bash Riprock 1,695]

Just checking in, hope you bastards are doing good.

[BearSchlong 8,083]

Glad you did, lots to share.

This weekend was my son's wedding.  Threw a huge rehearsal dinner with a talented country band with competition quality BBQ at a phenomenal venue, even went to specs and bought $1K worth of booze - and a case of Topo Chico for me.

I had about 500 words typed out but tl'dr is this:

My son married a beautiful woman from a great Texas family.

AA has prepared me to be a great father in law.

God does for me what I can't do for myself.