I'm An Alcoholic

[YGIFS 19456]

Longtime lurker on this thread.  Really appreciate and admire how this thing kinda stays self-contained on a site, which I love, but otherwise seems condemned to out one another.  But thank y'all for sharing this kinda stuff and supporting one another.  I'm in a place now where I gotta make some changes.  

I'm not gonna get into it all right now, though I probably will at some point.  But really just need some logistical help right now.  I've looked at Austin-based message boards for our problem and I am in no place to judge.  But I just have looked at this thread for a couple years and think this is as good a place as any to inquire.  I'm finally talking to health professionals, to friends in recovery, and realize I also need to seriously integrate a meeting(s) into my routine.  

My first question to y'all, particularly in Austin is...I'm looking at this place right around the corner from me (almost literally).  It seems to be an actual AA field office.  But there are open meetings, closed meetings, 12-step meetings, non 12-step meetings, secular, non-secular, etc, etc, etc.  I'm glad there are so many options, I am thankful.  I think it's the best place to start.  And I know I just need to be in one, but if I'm honest...I'm a particular kinda asshole.  Where do I start?  I want to just listen for awhile.  Best thing I've done the last 6 weeks is just listen to friends and colleagues and even a family member who've been through this.  I know there's the steps, the big book, a higher power, and I get it.  I respect it.  But for now, the only thing I'm clinging to besides my wanting to get better for my kids is I didn't realize how many people I know and love that are going through this.  It's not my place to pick and choose best practices from their cautionary tales...but it's given me some resolve and some hope.  I know I should get into a meeting environment no matter what.  But how do I pick one?  I'd rather it be non-religious, non-step for now.  And I also don't need to be somebody's sponsorship right now.  I know that's a big part of it, and I respect that.  And I'll likely need to be one and have one at some point.  But what's just -A- way right now to attend and listen and maybe talk soon?  At this point, I can't change anyone else and I can barely handle sobriety...I just want to listen and learn and quit shaking.  

Thanks.  God bless y'all...

[Kennythetiger 9584]

Your desired sobriety seems to come with a lot of strings attached. Would you consider attending meetings of all different varieties and seeing if any of them strike your fancy?  If you don’t like one, don’t go back. 
When it’s your turn to talk you can just say, “I’m from the internets, and I’m just here to listen tonight.”  I’d omit the muledick part for now, anyway. 

[YGIFS 19456]

I get it.  I’m open to a lot at this point.  I guess it was my of asking what are the nuances and differences between the myriad meetings?   Never done a single one but need to.  But this place near me and has everybody recommends has literally a dozen different types.  

[Macanudo 13254]

I've always kind of thought that they anonymity of AA was a problem, albeit small in the grand scheme of things.  

Don't worry about outing yourself.   In time, if your serious talking about alcohol and it's grip on you will become easier.   To me, it was liberating especially with my loved ones and closest friends.   Being honest with them led to more introspection on my part.   Putting it out here, 6 months ago, brought a different kind of accountability.   I know I won't get judged if I fall off the wagon here.  And people will understand.   Just like in an AA meeting.  

So let go.  

[YGIFS 19456]

Would pos rep you both but can’t today apparently. Thanks!

[Kennythetiger 9584]

5 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

I get it.  I’m open to a lot at this point.  I guess it was my of asking what are the nuances and differences between the myriad meetings?   Never done a single one but need to.  But this place near me and has everybody recommends has literally a dozen different types.  

I was a little curt, unlike my uncle, who is a tall Curt. 
Just start going to different meetings. See what you like and don’t like. Unlike going to church with your parents, you don’t have to go back if you don’t like it. 

[YGIFS 19456]

Thanks again, and to the poster who PM'd me with a really good breakdown of his experience at the various types of meetings.  I was just overwhelmed (and still am to some extent) with how many kinds there are.  But found a few that seem to fit and are super close by and at good times of day. 

Other thing I'm trying to do is get with in a counselor/therapist.  Holy shit, another thread I suppose but our country has the same percentage of mental health issues as any other one but we are fucking woefully underserved.  I have pretty good insurance but it's a fucking shitshow trying to get in with somebody unless you're an immediate threat.  Spoke with ten different practices yesterday, only one can take me on right now.  But most important thing I can do right now is get to a meeting, I get it.  As I said, I am thankful for how many friends and colleagues have come out of the woodwork to help me.  Some I knew were in recovery, some I had no idea.  

If there's any of y'all in Austin that get together, I would like to join you.  If you don't mind a disastrous drop-in.  Only good news is that in person/real life, I'm pretty quiet and don't like to bother people.  Last question is---what the fuck with the sleeping/lack of sleep?  I thought I'd get back to solid slumber in middle age and sober.  Some nights, I'm zonked out for 9+ hours and my wife has to check on me.  Tonight, I'm up at 3am and can't get back to rest.  Please tell me this goes away soon.  

Anyway, sorry for thread hijack but some of y'all have hit so close to home for me with your posts over the years.  Hope I can repay the favor some day.

[BearSchlong 8231]

The sleep you get after working the steps is unbelievably good. A clear conscience is a soft pillow. Until then, your brain is trying to reach equilibrium. Took me a good 6 months to get there, after years of drinking myself to sleep.

Stop overthinking. Sit on your hands (metaphorically) and try to stay in the moment.

We have a saying “more will be revealed” which is why I keep coming back.

A sponsee sent this to me yesterday, it’s worth the time.

[BearSchlong 8231]

The sleep you get after working the steps is unbelievably good. A clear conscience is a soft pillow. Until then, your brain is trying to reach equilibrium. Took me a good 6 months to get there, after years of drinking myself to sleep.

Stop overthinking. Sit on your hands (metaphorically) and try to stay in the moment.

We have a saying “more will be revealed” which is why I keep coming back.

A sponsee sent this to me yesterday, it’s worth the time.

[YGIFS 19456]

Thanks for that.  Can’t rep anymore.  But This is helpful.  I’ve been following your advice for awhile now.  
 

It blows me away the way the universe comes to our aid.  Tried multiple therapists and counselors yesterday to book an appt. Only one in Austin has any bandwidth right now.  And out of the blue this morning when I’m at wit’s end, an old friend from college reaches out just for shits and giggles.  He just so happens to run a group of mental health hospitals on the east coast.  I told him what I’m going through and he’s gonna pair me with some telehealth folks until I can get on a roster here in Austin.  I am grateful.  I know my family needs me stop but it seems the world does as well.  

[Shoxthemonkey 1992]

3 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Thanks for that.  Can’t rep anymore.  But This is helpful.  I’ve been following your advice for awhile now.  
 

It blows me away the way the universe comes to our aid.  Tried multiple therapists and counselors yesterday to book an appt. Only one in Austin has any bandwidth right now.  And out of the blue this morning when I’m at wit’s end, an old friend from college reaches out just for shits and giggles.  He just so happens to run a group of mental health hospitals on the east coast.  I told him what I’m going through and he’s gonna pair me with some telehealth folks until I can get on a roster here in Austin.  I am grateful.  I know my family needs me stop but it seems the world does as well.  

As you may or may not know, there is a mental health thread in "Can You Help Me With This?" that has a lot of good info and supportive help for anybody dealing with mental health issues and general well being. I'm on my phone and unable to post a link but it won't be hard to scroll down and find the thread. @cactusflinthead and @Lidig8r are a couple of the more prominent keepers of the flame in that thread. Check it out.

[BearSchlong 8231]

Duplicate, Tapatalk issues.

[BearSchlong 8231]

3 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Thanks for that.  Can’t rep anymore.  But This is helpful.  I’ve been following your advice for awhile now.  
 

It blows me away the way the universe comes to our aid.  Tried multiple therapists and counselors yesterday to book an appt. Only one in Austin has any bandwidth right now.  And out of the blue this morning when I’m at wit’s end, an old friend from college reaches out just for shits and giggles.  He just so happens to run a group of mental health hospitals on the east coast.  I told him what I’m going through and he’s gonna pair me with some telehealth folks until I can get on a roster here in Austin.  I am grateful.  I know my family needs me stop but it seems the world does as well.  

Don't forget about EAP, if you've got access to one via work.  Many of them will be happy to send you off to treatment for a month.

Metaphorically, I see alcoholism as being on a merry go round that keeps spinning faster and faster, and we keep getting forced out from the middle until we are hanging on to the outside bar for dear life, desperately attempting to regain control and manageability.

Then we get flung off into the grass, and realize the futility of trying to regain control.

 

[YGIFS 19456]

23 minutes ago, Shoxthemonkey said:

As you may or may not know, there is a mental health thread in "Can You Help Me With This?" that has a lot of good info and supportive help for anybody dealing with mental health issues and general well being. I'm on my phone and unable to post a link but it won't be hard to scroll down and find the thread. @cactusflinthead and @Lidig8r are a couple of the more prominent keepers of the flame in that thread. Check it out.

I tried looking for several pages but didn't find it.  I appreciate the suggestion though.  

[cactusflinthead 27626]

10 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

I tried looking for several pages but didn't find it.  I appreciate the suggestion though.  

Come on by any time. 

 

[Shoxthemonkey 1992]

19 minutes ago, cactusflinthead said:

Come on by any time. 

 

Thanks, Mister Flinthead. I knew you would have my back.

[Celery Man 21076]

On 8/17/2022 at 1:27 PM, YGIFS said:

but if I'm honest...I'm a particular kinda asshole. 

ah you're in the right place - so are the rest of us

what I think I'm hearing in your post is that you know you should join some meetings but you're afraid of going to one that's not right for you, where maybe they'll put you on the spot or get you all hooked in to something you don't want, etc. That makes complete sense to me and is a reason I avoided meetings for a long time. I don't want to get in the room and then 12 people are rushing me and getting my phone number and having me volunteer to be places and do things or shoving me in front of the room and making me tell my life story etc etc - I want to go sit and observe and dip my toes in and think about maybe wading in till the water is right below my dick.

The good news for you is that you can accomplish this easily - really any meeting you can walk out at any point but of course I would suggest that going to a meeting means you are on the hook to hang out in a room for exactly an hour and that is all. It may be that the meeting you go to is one where they call on people at random to talk, or someone maybe asks you to share your story, or something like that - you can say "Hey there, my name is YGIFS and I'm just here to listen today" and they will say "Hi YGIFS, we're glad you're here" or something like that and you can go back to sitting back and observing. If it's too religiousy, there are other meetings that have a different feel. Maybe try a later one or a different group. Or that one again at a different time - they can be different just based on who is around. But yeah, if you see one that says it is more secular, you might try that one. Again, if you go to one and you don't like it, you're out an hour and that's it. "I'm just here to listen" is the understood keyword for "I'm not comfortable diving completely in, let me observe".

[YGIFS 19456]

26 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Don't forget about EAP, if you've got access to one via work.  Many of them will be happy to send you off to treatment for a month.

Metaphorically, I see alcoholism as being on a merry go round that keeps spinning faster and faster, and we keep getting forced out from the middle until we are hanging on to the outside bar for dear life, desperately attempting to regain control and manageability.

Then we get flung off into the grass, and realize the futility of trying to regain control.

 

i appreciate that and again, have really gained insight from your posts over the years.  particularly the last 6-7 weeks as I have finally just given up and realized that I am basically powerless to get over this hump.  Years ago I accepted I was addicted and just sorta rolled with it.  had good months and bad. 

But early July, finally had enough clarity to realize I was just bargaining with myself.  If I do this and don't do that, I can go another month.  Just bullshit upon bullshit.  I know there's so much more work to do but at least acknowledging the lies I tell myself felt like a step in the right direction.  I know I lie to those I love.  But to finally look at myself and say "the ruse is up" felt like a positive direction.  

Most of this thread is about y'all marking important milestones and I don't mean to shit on that.  But I've just been in awe of many of you for a long time.  And I'll fuck it up, but it's just good to for a new york minute to stop and think "YGIFS, you are beyond fucked up...but at least you finally are starting to think about truly stopping...not the bullshit half measures you did for a few years."  Again, it's a journey.  I get it.  But I never wanted to even get the trailhead until now.  

Another thread hijack.........besides the sleep.  Is the mental v. physical battle thing normal?  Like, I have days where I am fine physically.  I eat, I swim, I don't shake.  I sleep okay.  Not great, but okay.  My piss is half-ass normal colored.  But I am complete shitshow mentally.  I get cranky, I yell, I am short with my wife.  I avoid people (that actually is my default setting).  And I'm just piss 'n vinegar.  Other days, I am joyous.  Optimistic.  Happy to be alive and see my kids grow and laugh and want to be with friends.  But the downside is those days I am just shaky and jittery and I dry heave bile and I can't eat.  And I can barely move and I'm sore as fuck in my limbs.  I knew it'd be rough at 46 years of age but fuck me...

 

 

 

 

[cactusflinthead 27626]

4 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

I get cranky, I yell, I am short with my wife.  I avoid people (that actually is my default setting).  And I'm just piss 'n vinegar.  Other days, I am joyous.  Optimistic.  Happy to be alive

That describes a lot of us. Booze problems or not. 

[Celery Man 21076]

man the mental/physical compartmentalization is less binary than you might think. I think there's probably some interesting dynamics at play in terms of why you have the mentally angry days with the physically OK ones instead of everything being shit all at once but whatever they are, the answer to "have the mentally and physically good days together and minimize the mentally and physically bad days" is to take the plunge and start making changes. and of course with alcoholics the only changes that will have any impact are ones that get you past the first hump of drying out, ones that provide you with the mental rewiring you need to to adjust your mental state, ones that provide you with the tools you need to keep your emotional life in check, and ones that provide you with the support system to keep it between the lines as you start learning how to live sober

Edited August 18, 2022 by Celery Man

[Kennythetiger 9584]

3 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

 I want to go sit and observe and dip my toes in and think about maybe wading in till the water is right below my dick.

I tried this too but it wasn’t very much fun splashing around in water that barely covered my ankles. 

[YGIFS 19456]

Yeah, maybe the binary "review" of things is just perfunctory or in my head.  I have made serious changes and continue to work at it.  I know it'll never be over.  But feel like I've at least taken the most serious steps I have ever in my whole life.  Not justifying or whining (or I guess I am)...but with a tiny bit of hindsight...I just look back and realize I've had truly excruciating days physically.  Wake up at 3 or 4am and just dry heave bile with no booze in my body.  And then when the family gets up, my wife notices I am just shaky as fuck.  And my piss is orange even if it's been days with no alcohol and only water/coffee.  And I'm just sweet and grateful to be alive and a dad.  And then other days, I feel okay physically like this morning.  Went for a long walk and have okay energy despite shitty sleep.  Decent appetite.  But I just spoke to her and the oldest one like a fucking asshole because I was in mad crave mode.  I guess I'm glad I'm not having all this bullshit at once, but fucking-A...it's a fucking light switch over which I have zero control.  

[Kennythetiger 9584]

There’s a reason those old fuckers say “One day at a time.”  One of the godfathers in my group would tell you that you’re doing too much thinking right now. He’d tell you that you don’t have to be perfect, and that “It’s ok just to be ok for now.”  And then he’d say, “Oh yeah-and try not to drink. That helps, too.”  

[SydneyCarton 49325]

20 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

i appreciate that and again, have really gained insight from your posts over the years.  particularly the last 6-7 weeks as I have finally just given up and realized that I am basically powerless to get over this hump.  Years ago I accepted I was addicted and just sorta rolled with it.  had good months and bad. 

But early July, finally had enough clarity to realize I was just bargaining with myself.  If I do this and don't do that, I can go another month.  Just bullshit upon bullshit.  I know there's so much more work to do but at least acknowledging the lies I tell myself felt like a step in the right direction.  I know I lie to those I love.  But to finally look at myself and say "the ruse is up" felt like a positive direction.  

Most of this thread is about y'all marking important milestones and I don't mean to shit on that.  But I've just been in awe of many of you for a long time.  And I'll fuck it up, but it's just good to for a new york minute to stop and think "YGIFS, you are beyond fucked up...but at least you finally are starting to think about truly stopping...not the bullshit half measures you did for a few years."  Again, it's a journey.  I get it.  But I never wanted to even get the trailhead until now.  

Another thread hijack.........besides the sleep.  Is the mental v. physical battle thing normal?  Like, I have days where I am fine physically.  I eat, I swim, I don't shake.  I sleep okay.  Not great, but okay.  My piss is half-ass normal colored.  But I am complete shitshow mentally.  I get cranky, I yell, I am short with my wife.  I avoid people (that actually is my default setting).  And I'm just piss 'n vinegar.  Other days, I am joyous.  Optimistic.  Happy to be alive and see my kids grow and laugh and want to be with friends.  But the downside is those days I am just shaky and jittery and I dry heave bile and I can't eat.  And I can barely move and I'm sore as fuck in my limbs.  I knew it'd be rough at 46 years of age but fuck me...

 

 

 

 

Have you considered you have a chemical imbalance in your brain, and that you're using alcohol to self-medicate? Probably another reason to dry out for a bit is to try and get  baseline to see if you have anything else going on, like bi-polar or anxiety, etc. It might explain why you're so up and down. 

[YGIFS 19456]

I know for a fact I have a chemical imbalance in my brain.  That issue and my alcohol issue are intimately tied together and have been for some time.  I am drying out.  I knew there'd be an exacerbated period.  Medical professionals and friends in recovery warned me of it.  I saw it coming, just wasn't ready for the severity of it.  I'm in that weird grey space where I probably don't need a month of rehab but I also can't go it alone.  It's getting better physically, but yeah-the mental shit is still rough.  But to your point, the ups and downs are obviously indicative of deeper issues that alcohol was just masking.  And I am ready to conquer those, but not until I can just get through a damn week without dry heaving water and bile.  It's getting better but as people I trust have told me, "Dude, you're 46 and you've been drinking heavily for a decade of that...that 7-10 days shit you read online...that doesn't apply to folks like us.  It's gonna be longer and harder."  Anyway, I'm just justifying my justification at this point.  I get it.  I'm at least stopping, seeking medical help, want to get into counseling (if I can find a damn opening), and am starting meetings.  And am grateful that friends and colleagues have popped out of the woodwork to help where they can without me even asking.  Plus this thread and I suspect some of us know each other in real life.  Am also going to church service again and doing a little bit more for myself physically.  I don't have answers, just a bunch of fucking self-doubt.  I just finally got the Rubicon and don't want to cross back.  I can't keep bullshitting myself.  I quit lying to loved ones awhile back, but I think I can maybe even quit lying to myself.  Appreciate y'all listening...

[Celery Man 21076]

yeah, I had meant to connect those things with my previous post but got sidetracked because it is actually a bit interesting that you're grouchier on days when you're feeling good. I mean unless you're just still kinda half drunk on those days. Either way though, it doesn't matter - the steps to fix the problem are the same as they would be if you had good days and days when you were shaky and anxious.

 

One thing that's nice that you've said a bunch of times is about your powerlessness. I've said a bunch of times in this thread that step 1 is the most important step and that people frequently move past it without internalizing their powerlessness over alcohol. And that this sets them up for failure down the line. A vice I should scale back on recently is fucking around on my phone during the hours and hours I must spend ensuring that the baby moderately happy or these days more that the toddler isn't actually killing herself. I've wound up wandering around on Reddit a bit and came across a few of the sobriety/alcoholism boards there. Not super surprising that the "AA is a religious cult" crowd is loud there, but one thing I found interesting is the complaint that AA is highly negative because you have to admit you are powerless. I never ever took it that way - I'm powerless over alcohol. I am sure as fuck not powerless *waves hands in the air* out in the world. I was powerless when I was spending all of my time tangling with alcohol, over which I have no power. And my power was severely diminished when I spent inordinate amounts of energy worrying/being angry about or otherwise trying to control things that I have no control over. But powerlessness against alcohol in AA isn't about being a worthless piece of shit or not having any self value, etc. It's about recognizing a battle you can't win, accepting the help you need to get off the field, and not playing that game again. You have a 2-7 off suit - fold your hand, accept your losses, move on.

And the god stuff is less about believing in a personal Jesus who sits on a cloud with his dad and intervenes in the events of your life than it is about making peace with not being god yourself, and not controlling the weather or what other people are going to do or think.

I'm rambling a tad but I'm glad that you seem to have a healthy relationship with the concept of powerlessness - it is a good thing to have.

 

I don't think I understood that you are actively drying out at the moment. You can look up PAWS (post acute withdrawal syndrome) and probably there are some other acronyms you could dig into to figure out about the weird stuff that happens when your brain starts trying to get the house back in order but tl;dr - yeah stuff is going to be weird for a bit and you may have headaches and weird memory stuff as well. Expect that to last a month although there may be weird stuff for longer than that. But it will get better.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Celery Man

[YGIFS 19456]

Thanks man.  I really appreciate it.  I thank all of y'all.  Only formally joined the site again because of this thread.  I've been reading it for literally years and long ago admitted to myself and my loved ones that I had a real problem.  But only recently decided to quit lying to myself as well and start working some shit actively.  

I "quit" about 6-7 weeks ago with a few hiccups but not much.  I own them and I'm not in control.   But it's the longest stretch I've done with this little alcohol in over a decade.  I've had all the markings of true withdrawal.  The hallucinations, wow.  That's been a hoot.  And I did LSD on the road with the Dead.  Thankfully, no seizures.  Was ready for the shaking and the dry heaving and the migraines.  But I guess the ups and downs of it all is what has thrown me.  Not to belabor the point.  My wife is super proud of me but she looks at me somedays like, "It's been weeks, what the fuck is wrong with you?"  And I don't even know myself, just weird ebbs and flows.  But serious people tell me that serious withdrawal requires serious time at my serious age. 

Anyway, the best I've felt other than a few shining evenings at home is sitting in a parking lot talking to my buddy in Florida who I haven't seen for over a decade.  But instead of sneaking off to slam some booze, I've instead called him and it's been so damn cathartic.  So I know I'm ready for meetings and am going next week to the place by my house.  I'm gonna go midday so I don't have to come home and then slink off after dinner so my kids don't ask.  I know eventually I should tell them but for now, I think it's the way to go.  Wife is totally supportive of this though she's certainly earned the right to say what she said to me earlier this month.  i want to add counseling/therapy into the mix but apparently I'd have an easier time booking time with opioids and an assault rifle than I do booking time with a mental health specialist.  

I'm so far from getting out of the woods, but can finally see that I can want to walk out of the forest.  Thank you guys so much.  It stopped being fun so long ago.  It stopped being a crutch.  It even stopped being muscle memory/Pavlovian where I'd just wait to listen to the wife turn the shower on or close the garage door so I could run and slam a few cocktails.  It wasn't self-reflection, or self-doubt or even self-hate...I already had those in spades.  And I wish I could an honorable dad and say it's for my kids.  Or at least for my health.  But if I'm honest, I'm just fucking exhausted.  No honor or clarity.  I'm just beat.  I give up.  I wanna go a different rout.  Not for glory, but just to do something else...I don't have it me anymore.  Maybe I don't have it to me to quit either, 'cause this sure as shit seems to require a bunch of effort as well.  but I'm just fucking gassed.  

[SydneyCarton 49325]

I'm not sure if this is a faux pas on this thread or in general, but man, how much do you think you were drinking per day or week?

[BearSchlong 8231]

Not a faux pas at all.

32 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Thanks man.  I really appreciate it.  I thank all of y'all.  Only formally joined the site again because of this thread.  I've been reading it for literally years and long ago admitted to myself and my loved ones that I had a real problem.  But only recently decided to quit lying to myself as well and start working some shit actively.  

I "quit" about 6-7 weeks ago with a few hiccups but not much.  I own them and I'm not in control.   But it's the longest stretch I've done with this little alcohol in over a decade.  I've had all the markings of true withdrawal.  The hallucinations, wow.  That's been a hoot.  And I did LSD on the road with the Dead.  Thankfully, no seizures.  Was ready for the shaking and the dry heaving and the migraines.  But I guess the ups and downs of it all is what has thrown me.  Not to belabor the point.  My wife is super proud of me but she looks at me somedays like, "It's been weeks, what the fuck is wrong with you?"  And I don't even know myself, just weird ebbs and flows.  But serious people tell me that serious withdrawal requires serious time at my serious age. 

Anyway, the best I've felt other than a few shining evenings at home is sitting in a parking lot talking to my buddy in Florida who I haven't seen for over a decade.  But instead of sneaking off to slam some booze, I've instead called him and it's been so damn cathartic.  So I know I'm ready for meetings and am going next week to the place by my house.  I'm gonna go midday so I don't have to come home and then slink off after dinner so my kids don't ask.  I know eventually I should tell them but for now, I think it's the way to go.  Wife is totally supportive of this though she's certainly earned the right to say what she said to me earlier this month.  i want to add counseling/therapy into the mix but apparently I'd have an easier time booking time with opioids and an assault rifle than I do booking time with a mental health specialist.  

I'm so far from getting out of the woods, but can finally see that I can want to walk out of the forest.  Thank you guys so much.  It stopped being fun so long ago.  It stopped being a crutch.  It even stopped being muscle memory/Pavlovian where I'd just wait to listen to the wife turn the shower on or close the garage door so I could run and slam a few cocktails.  It wasn't self-reflection, or self-doubt or even self-hate...I already had those in spades.  And I wish I could an honorable dad and say it's for my kids.  Or at least for my health.  But if I'm honest, I'm just fucking exhausted.  No honor or clarity.  I'm just beat.  I give up.  I wanna go a different rout.  Not for glory, but just to do something else...I don't have it me anymore.  Maybe I don't have it to me to quit either, 'cause this sure as shit seems to require a bunch of effort as well.  but I'm just fucking gassed.  

Go

To

A

Meeting

Tonight.

Repeat tomorrow.

Profit.

Stop trying to enter sobriety on your own terms.  If your last paragraph is not a lie, then just walk out the door, get in your car, and go to a meeting.  It's 4:26 pm on a Thursday, there are plenty to choose from.  Pick one and just go.

I dare you.

(I care more about your life than your feelings on the matter)

[YGIFS 19456]

23 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I'm not sure if this is a faux pas on this thread or in general, but man, how much do you think you were drinking per day or week?

enough that I'm talking to the likes of you  

It was a quite a ride honestly.  But probably "problematic" consumption began ~8 years ago.  Within that timeframe, there were weeks where I'd drink 3 days that week and never get "drunk", socially drinking and not getting out of control.  And there were weeks where I was drinking every single day.  Worst weeks were probably 6 days of drinking with "passing out" happening twice a week.  It was spotty, never month over month benders but enough to feel like shit and be concerned.  But between age and kids and everything else, finally realized that just because I haven't been jailed or hospitalized doesn't mean I haven't reached a bottom already.  And as I said above, I'm just fucking gassed.  It's like I'm not even meeting a chemical quota anymore, it's just this fucking chore that i'm sick of.  I'm at my wit's end.  Kids, health, life, work, God, etc.  I'm just fucking done.  Been pretty damn near totally dry in the last six weeks.  I own my slip-ups.  But I've never done anything like this since maybe my mid-20's but that's only because I was dirt poor back then and couldn't afford booze.  

[YGIFS 19456]

4 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

Not a faux pas at all.

Go

To

A

Meeting

Tonight.

Repeat tomorrow.

Profit.

Stop trying to enter sobriety on your own terms.  If your last paragraph is not a lie, then just walk out the door, get in your car, and go to a meeting.  It's 4:26 pm on a Thursday, there are plenty to choose from.  Pick one and just go.

I dare you.

(I care more about your life than your feelings on the matter)

I found the one that works on several fronts.  I can even bike there to give me some extra "chill" time.  I'm going this week.  I appreciate your kick in the ass.  I need it.  My wife loves and supports me through thick and thin but she comes from a background, as do I, where shit like this is a sign of weakness and means you're a shitheel with not enough Jesus in your life.  so I thank y'all for the nudge.  Just rambling today has given me more clarity.  i am going to a meeting.  I am going to my doctor...again.  I am calling friends in recovery as I have done for the last several weeks.  I  need to get to a counselor as well, but that's another story for another time.  I am done.  I am gassed.  It will never be over.  But this the furthest I have ever gone since I started really drinking.  I am going this week to a meeting.  If I don't report back, it's not 'cause I didn't try...it's 'cause I accidentally said something in group share and got extradited back to Portugal.

[Johnny Sack 8397]

On 8/17/2022 at 1:40 PM, Macanudo said:

I've always kind of thought that they anonymity of AA was a problem, albeit small in the grand scheme of things.  

Don't worry about outing yourself.   In time, if your serious talking about alcohol and it's grip on you will become easier.   To me, it was liberating especially with my loved ones and closest friends.   Being honest with them led to more introspection on my part.   Putting it out here, 6 months ago, brought a different kind of accountability.   I know I won't get judged if I fall off the wagon here.  And people will understand.   Just like in an AA meeting.  

So let go.  

 

[Reagan1k 3040]

Welcome @YGIFS .  Glad you're here!   It's a big deal getting to where you are.  Stay for a while.

I've been trying to play catch-up but here are a few of my experiences.

I had to get comfortable with the idea of being uncomfortable for a while.  Booze were running my life and when I sobered up my body had to recover and my mind had to heal.  We drunks hammer our body with an incredibly powerful depressant for years and it takes a while for all those synapses and neurons to get reacquainted with themselves.

The best time to fully grab recovery is now.  I got out of the ring relatively  (compared to many) unscathed but I don't get to decide if there is another recovery in me.  If I climb back in the ring with the champ, he might not let me crawl out through the ropes again.  He decides when I've had enough.  I might not get another surrender.

Meetings - I thought I could do it on my own until I couldn't.  I finally broke down and went to a meeting even though they were contrary to every concept of self-reliance I'd ever had.  If you're like me, it'll be the biggest letdown of negative expectations you've ever seen.  I built it up to be all this stuff that it wasn't.  What it was entailed some recovered drunks sitting around talking about solutions and a few others like me just sitting and listening.  All had a right to a seat and there were no AA police, oaths to swear, or commitments to make.

Meetings aren't where you work steps, spill your take it to the grave shit, or get baptized into a new religion.  Meetings are a place where those who've found recovery share their experience and give hope to newcomers.  It's a place with solutions.

Try some.  As has been said before, if someone invites you to share or speak, saw whatever you want or say nothing.  "I'm just listening" is perfectly fine.  Hell, I say that sometimes if I'm unwound about something.  Some days I don't want to share and I don't.  The only requirement to be there is having a desire to stop drinking - period.  

Godspeed my friend.  It's a cool ride.  Bumpy as hell at times but ever so worth it when you look back.

[YGIFS 19456]

Thank you sir.  I'm going in with that mindset.  I'm gonna just listen and see what little I can use to make progress.  I'm cool with that part.  I'm done trying to reinvent the wheel.  I know it's a small, but significant piece, I need in my arsenal.  I can't do what I've been doing and expect to improve.  I am stagnant, at absolute best.  No way I make progress without meetings, counseling, etc.  So here I go.  

[Not that Bob 743]

Meetings are enjoyable. 

[BearSchlong 8231]

 

I’m dying over here. That’s funny as shit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Meetings are enjoyable. 

Best entertainment value on the planet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Reagan1k 3040]

12 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Thank you sir.  I'm going in with that mindset.  I'm gonna just listen and see what little I can use to make progress.  I'm cool with that part.  I'm done trying to reinvent the wheel.  I know it's a small, but significant piece, I need in my arsenal.  I can't do what I've been doing and expect to improve.  I am stagnant, at absolute best.  No way I make progress without meetings, counseling, etc.  So here I go.  

Good for you.  Counseling can be a beneficial piece to the puzzle for sure.  It helps to the extent you can be honest with the counselor and there may be a lot of things they can help you unpack or just be a good sounding board if that’s what you need at the time.
 

As an aside- little inside baseball here.  MANY counselors have a Rolodex of AA members to which they refer patients who are interested in getting sober. Most realize that alcoholics can speak and understand a language that a nonalcoholic counselor can’t.  

[BearSchlong 8231]

Thank you sir.  I'm going in with that mindset.  I'm gonna just listen and see what little I can use to make progress.  I'm cool with that part.  I'm done trying to reinvent the wheel.  I know it's a small, but significant piece, I need in my arsenal.  I can't do what I've been doing and expect to improve.  I am stagnant, at absolute best.  No way I make progress without meetings, counseling, etc.  So here I go.  

What you need is a grizzled old guy with 20 plus years sober as an AA sponsor who has been where you are, and who has done what you did, and felt the way you felt, who will not co-sign your BS.

If you’re anywhere near Mopac and FM 2222 I’d recommend you walk into Northland AA and ask for David B or Sam W. And just say “I need help” and hang on for the ride. I’d put my life in their hands. Pm me and Ill give you their phone numbers. There are a thousand guys in Austin just like them, they just happen to be my friends.

You can go to counseling after you’re sober and stable and are ready to explore the fucked up dysfunctional shit that happened when you were a kid that you probably will not be able to remember until after you’ve worked the steps.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[BearSchlong 8231]

Good for you.  Counseling can be a beneficial piece to the puzzle for sure.  It helps to the extent you can be honest with the counselor and there may be a lot of things they can help you unpack or just be a good sounding board if that’s what you need at the time.
 
As an aside- little inside baseball here.  MANY counselors have a Rolodex of AA members to which they refer patients who are interested in getting sober. Most realize that alcoholics can speak and understand a language that a nonalcoholic counselor can’t.  

Assuming the counselor isn’t a psychopath themselves. Y’all know my experience with that, I married one. See divorce thread for details.

I can get names of counselors in Austin who actually know something about alcoholism.

I’m wary of the profession.

[Celery Man 21076]

Every meeting has a 68 year old guy named Steve who is either wearing khaki shorts/white new balances/tube socks or creased wranglers, a trucker hat, and thick bifocals. He has 35 years of sobriety and will sit with his arms folded until he rattles off a story comprised entirely of aphorisms he’s repeated 12000 times which at least once refers to how his wife runs the show.

[BearSchlong 8231]

Lol.

My “Steve” is Ron and he got sober Dec 25, 1985. But she recently passed away.

My sponsors been sober 35 years, managing partner of a big law firm, is a west Texas boy who sits there in a rumpled suit with his tie pulled down with a huge shit eating grin on his face because he has seen and heard it all. He doesn’t talk much, but you can tell he considers most humans pretty humorous.

[Reagan1k 3040]

13 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Assuming the counselor isn’t a psychopath themselves. Y’all know my experience with that, I married one. See divorce thread for details.

I can get names of counselors in Austin who actually know something about alcoholism.

I’m wary of the profession.

Yeah - I think I recall your "experience" with the profession from that thread and I agree.  Wasn't she the narcissistic reincarnation of Freud, Jung, and Tony Sporano?

Having been through this and having a little perspective now, I'm drawn to counselors/therapists who know their limits as it relates to alcoholism.  My experience is that even a great therapist can't CBT a drunk out of active or untreated alcoholism.

Some do have insight or experience with it and can relate.  Others know how to stay in their lane and turn it over to those better equipped to talk the talk.

What I've also seen and lived is that any real progress with a therapist is fleeting at best until the patient is sober and can get honest about their life.

And then there is what you lived......damn.

Anyway - @YGIFS  get to some meetings.  Try to have an open mind and focus on the similarities in what you hear and how you feel. 

Get honest with a therapist.

Listen to some AA speaker tapes from someone like Chuck Chamberlin, Clint Hodges, or Clancy Imislund.  They are all over the web and apps like AudioJoy.

Do it all and keep doing it even when it's uncomfortable.  There is relief on the other side of the discomfort.

[Kennythetiger 9584]

6 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Yeah - I think I recall your "experience" with the profession from that thread and I agree.  Wasn't she the narcissistic reincarnation of Freud, Jung, and Tony Sporano?

Having been through this and having a little perspective now, I'm drawn to counselors/therapists who know their limits as it relates to alcoholism.  My experience is that even a great therapist can't CBT a drunk out of active or untreated alcoholism.

Some do have insight or experience with it and can relate.  Others know how to stay in their lane and turn it over to those better equipped to talk the talk.

What I've also seen and lived is that any real progress with a therapist is fleeting at best until the patient is sober and can get honest about their life.

And then there is what you lived......damn.

Anyway - @YGIFS  get to some meetings.  Try to have an open mind and focus on the similarities in what you hear and how you feel. 

Get honest with a therapist.

Listen to some AA speaker tapes from someone like Chuck Chamberlin, Clint Hodges, or Clancy Imislund.  They are all over the web and apps like AudioJoy.

Do it all and keep doing it even when it's uncomfortable.  There is relief on the other side of the discomfort.

For the last few months I have been working with a therapist who uses EMDR. Whether or how it relates to alcoholism is for you smart guys. All I know is that I really enjoy it. My “best” drinking was when I could convince myself that I was slighted by someone, or justifiably angry. 

[South Austin 53154]

Frequent lurker, not because of any struggles I have, but my ex had developed an awful alcohol dependency (which she still seems to have), and I’m also fascinated by the stories of this community.

A comment on the anonymity issue raised above. Two of my law partners have gone through rehab over the past two years. We all knew it. We didn’t throw them a party or have a group discussion. But the general consensus was, “Good for you, and we’re here to support you.” There was no stigma attached, and their law practices didn’t suffer. I can understand the embarrassment and shame associated with alcoholism, but for those of us on the other side, we know this disease is so pervasive, especially in the legal community, and we just want folks to get better however they can.

As an aside, one of my partners is still having a bumpy ride on the wagon. And a year after rehab he and his wife divorced, which doesn’t help. The other appears to be doing great, and seems to have channeled his energy into the gym, because he now looks like he’s packed on about 15 pounds of muscle.

Good luck you all.

Edited August 19, 2022 by South Austin

[YGIFS 19456]

I'm going Monday at 5:30p, seems to be the standard open meeting format.  Sundays and Mondays seem to be my toughest days, so I figure that's a good a time as any to start.   I'm supposed to hear back late next week on a time to speak with an insurance-approved therapist for initial consult.  In the meantime, I'll check out some of the videos you mentioned.  I know there's no dearth of material out there, I've even sought some of it out over the years when I was in some rough spots.  But I need some in-person/1:1 help as well and so, it's time.  I think I'm gonna check out "Desire to Stop" meeting at the same place one morning later next week, see which of the two seems like it's what I need.  

But for fuck's sake, up again at 3:00am this morning.  What the fuck!??!? i don't want to become reliant on tylenol PM but I gotta do something to get some sack time as my body reboots.  But of  course, I'll probably zonk out until 10am Saturday and my kids will worry about me and I can't tell them what I'm going through right now.  They're too little to understand.  I think the oldest one can tell though that something is different about daddy.  Not good, not bad, but different. 

One bit of good news is my mental clarity is coming back strong.  There's still some lingering fog but I feel like myself more mentally again, but still staying stupid shit to my wife (like that'll ever change).  And my 'lockjaw' stammer thing is hopefully dissipating.  

[Reagan1k 3040]

6 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

But for fuck's sake, up again at 3:00am this morning.  What the fuck!??!? i don't want to become reliant on tylenol PM but I gotta do something to get some sack time as my body reboots.

I don't recall who said it on this site or maybe in a meeting somewhere but I was told that the body will sleep when it is ready and when it needs it.  Maybe the healing process requires you to be awake at that time?   Don't fight it.  Get a copy of the Big Book.  Put it beside your bed and if you wake and can't go back to sleep in 15 min or so, grab the book and start reading.  You'll either dose off again or get some beneficial reading time in.  Forced sleep isn't that rejuvenating anyway.

It sucks - you're right!  But don't fight it.  This will pass in due time. 

[SydneyCarton 49325]

25 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

I'm going Monday at 5:30p, seems to be the standard open meeting format.  Sundays and Mondays seem to be my toughest days, so I figure that's a good a time as any to start.   I'm supposed to hear back late next week on a time to speak with an insurance-approved therapist for initial consult.  In the meantime, I'll check out some of the videos you mentioned.  I know there's no dearth of material out there, I've even sought some of it out over the years when I was in some rough spots.  But I need some in-person/1:1 help as well and so, it's time.  I think I'm gonna check out "Desire to Stop" meeting at the same place one morning later next week, see which of the two seems like it's what I need.  

But for fuck's sake, up again at 3:00am this morning.  What the fuck!??!? i don't want to become reliant on tylenol PM but I gotta do something to get some sack time as my body reboots.  But of  course, I'll probably zonk out until 10am Saturday and my kids will worry about me and I can't tell them what I'm going through right now.  They're too little to understand.  I think the oldest one can tell though that something is different about daddy.  Not good, not bad, but different. 

One bit of good news is my mental clarity is coming back strong.  There's still some lingering fog but I feel like myself more mentally again, but still staying stupid shit to my wife (like that'll ever change).  And my 'lockjaw' stammer thing is hopefully dissipating.  

 

5 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

I don't recall who said it on this site or maybe in a meeting somewhere but I was told that the body will sleep when it is ready and when it needs it.  Maybe the healing process requires you to be awake at that time?   Don't fight it.  Get a copy of the Big Book.  Put it beside your bed and if you wake and can't go back to sleep in 15 min or so, grab the book and start reading.  You'll either dose off again or get some beneficial reading time in.  Forced sleep isn't that rejuvenating anyway.

It sucks - you're right!  But don't fight it.  This will pass in due time. 

Or, if you’re up, go for a run. Exercise. Personally exercise before work makes me feel great for the rest of the day. But even if that isn’t you, sweating out trash and tiring out your body so you’ll be tired tonight and hopefully crash for sleep would be a welcome 2nd place award. 

[Celery Man 21076]

43 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

My experience is that even a great therapist can't CBT a drunk out of active or untreated alcoholism.

best mechanic isn't going to tune up an engine that is on fire

 

that seems like good advice from reagan1k on the sleep. Sleep (and waking up at the right time) was a big source of stress and anxiety for me as a practicing alcoholic and I continued to have big phobias around it in sobriety. Even when i was drinking, stuff like unisom or tylenol pm made me feel drugged the next day, difficult to get up in the morning. This is advice that is probably different than what you need for your problem of waking up at 3am, but my sobriety sleep ritual involved

1) chamomile tea out of my special tea mug

2) 5 mg melatonin

3) reading in bed with a booklight so I can snap it off and lay down as soon I stop being able to keep focus

That served me well for a bit and I did a version of that until I had a kid a year ago and started falling asleep standing up.

The whole ritual thing with the tea was important and useful to me in early sobriety. I mean, I had a ritual when I was drinking - sit on the couch and consume a fuckton of alcohol until I'm drunk enough to sleep. The calming routine with the tea that is similar enough and pleasant and has just enough "this is something that helps me sleep" truthiness to it to make me mentally believe that it helps - it helped.

[BearSchlong 8231]

Yeah - I think I recall your "experience" with the profession from that thread and I agree.  Wasn't she the narcissistic reincarnation of Freud, Jung, and Tony Sporano?
Having been through this and having a little perspective now, I'm drawn to counselors/therapists who know their limits as it relates to alcoholism.  My experience is that even a great therapist can't CBT a drunk out of active or untreated alcoholism.
Some do have insight or experience with it and can relate.  Others know how to stay in their lane and turn it over to those better equipped to talk the talk.
What I've also seen and lived is that any real progress with a therapist is fleeting at best until the patient is sober and can get honest about their life.
And then there is what you lived......damn.
Anyway - [mention=7397]YGIFS[/mention]  get to some meetings.  Try to have an open mind and focus on the similarities in what you hear and how you feel. 
Get honest with a therapist.
Listen to some AA speaker tapes from someone like Chuck Chamberlin, Clint Hodges, or Clancy Imislund.  They are all over the web and apps like AudioJoy.
Do it all and keep doing it even when it's uncomfortable.  There is relief on the other side of the discomfort.

Good speaker recommendations.

Also Earl Hightower is incredibly funny. And Karl Morris. I told my story on "his" zoom meeting.

Just go down the list, click the name, and enjoy.
https://amotaudio.com/zoom-conferences/covina-meetings/

On that list, my sponsor is #159



https://amotaudio.com/zoom-conferences/covina-meetings/covina-speaker-meeting-2022/

On that 2nd page, I'm #71.

I consider about 20 of those people across both lists very dear friends, and am so looking forward to the Lakeside conference coming up in September.







Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[YGIFS 19456]

Yeah, I need to give melatonin a try for staying asleep.  I was the same way when I has drinking heavily during Covid-19 lockdown.  I would take Tylenol PM and between that and the hooch, I was knocked out for 7-8 hours but I woke up and just could not get going for hours it seemed.    

Knock on wood, but I have an okay time falling asleep.  Instead of staying up to drink, I can read and hang out with wife, have tea, and fall asleep by 11:00p with little issue.  But once I'm up, I'm fucking up and gassed.  Like Reagan1K said, maybe it's my body waking up for some sort of healing?  I dunno, but it's pretty bizarre how frequently it happens and it's almost always between 3:00 & 3:30am.  For the first two weeks, I was waking up to dry heave.  Thankfully, that seems to have gone away. But now I'm just up to fuck with myself?  I dunno.  Maybe I'm subconsciously tiring myself so I'm too lazy to try and sneak off to buy booze?