I'm An Alcoholic

[BearSchlong 8083]

Anyone else watch Matthew Perry's interview with Diane Sawyer?  Wow.  It was really eye-opening to my wife.   I had told her the same things about myself and she kind of brushed them off as me being weak.  Then, when she hears him say he was taking 50+ Vicodin a day and had been in over 60 detoxes, spending over $7 million in rehabs and hospital stays, I think it finally set in for her.   I have long since given up caring if he gives a shit but it was the first time she acted like she had any sense of understanding what I was going through in that last year of the wheels coming off for me.  
Then, three days ago, the lead singer of one of the bands I play in walked into his house and blew his brains out in front of his wife.  He was 31.  His father-in-law and I are going over to the house to clean up that mess, literally.  
Everyone, please be kind to yourself.   As a friend of mine says, "Stay reachable, stay teachable and stay humble"

Glad she had that reaction.

My wife pre-ordered his book for me, and we watched the interview.

Our impression is that he is genuinely engaged in working the 12th step.

I sent a copy to the wife of a guy who is circling the drain. I think part of his problem is that his endless and expensive rehab cycles don’t even dent her trust fund’s interest payments.

[BearSchlong 8083]

Lol that part where he was talking about going to open houses and raising the homeowners’ medicine cabinets. “No way would Chandler steal my pills.”

I identified with that so hard. I had my MIL’s Medicare lunch pail quantity Percocet supply.

[Texzilla58 4731]

Here’s a story of alcoholic tragedy. A former colleague whom I had great respect as an exec and as a person, who introduced me to my current boss, died in late 20. His widow just sent me a letter he left for her to send a list of friends. Tore me up.

This guy had a great marriage to his high school sweetheart, two high achieving college age kids, white picket fence, and strong industry cred. I worked with him from 2005 - 07. We became good friends.

He retired from his later job and took a gig delivering car parts which he said he loved. Anyway he called me last October and said “I’m an uncontrollable unrepentant alcoholic. Been to rehab 4 times. Wife is divorcing me. Job found out I was a drunk and fired me. Kids won’t let me come around them or grandkids because of me being a drunk”. I was shocked. Never saw him have more than a single cocktail or beer at dinner. Evidently he had periods of heavy drinking but didn’t have issues until after we worked together.

At the time my mother was dying or I would have flown to Virginia to drag him to rehab. We talked a while. I asked if his wife would take him back if he got sober but he doubted she would trust him again and that he had hurt and disappointed her too many times. Told him to get his ass to rehab asap. Rejected the notion. Said he was exploring some new treatments that didn’t demand absolute sobriety. Said he had to leave the house by end of the year and he would likely be homeless. I begged him to get help. I followed up with a few calls but didn’t get a response.

On Christmas Day the wife and kids stopped by to see him for a brief visit. He had committed suicide with pills and booze. I realize his call wasn’t a plea for help but a goodbye call. I know he did it out of despair over losing his family, the only thing I knew him to be truly passionate about. Still, such a selfish act to inflict on his wife and kids, in the house she was returning to.

The wife had just gotten to the point she could forward his letter. It was basically an apology for checking out, an admission of failure, and a thank you for friendship. Just terrible.

Whatever you do, do everything you can to hold your sobriety and keep your loved ones and support structures close. This is an insidious disease and condition that has wrecked havoc in my life as I’ve lost so many through the years. I just hate it.

[kingkoopa6 8345]

Hi KK here, I'm an alcoholic and long time follower in here.

its a small accomplishment but thought id share

I completed the " Sober October" - 31 days no booze.. 

it would be the longest stretch of sobriety for me since before the Marines... 2004  ( no booze in boot camp)  

I've tried many of times to slow it down or all together. 

im so happy i did it, i feel amazing- mentally the hardest thing ive ever done. It was really really hard.

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by kingkoopa6

[Kennythetiger 9375]

1 hour ago, kingkoopa6 said:

 It was really really hard.

Yep. But you did it. 

[Cletus 57]

Hey yall just checking in. Normally don't post, but thought I'd share. Just did 30 days of residential and am now in IOP. I've got a total of 43 days under my belt, and today was my first day back at work. It sucks but reading through this thread has been extremely helpful today. I'm sure my employer disagrees but oh well. Thanks Yall. 

[Reagan1k 3024]

1 hour ago, kingkoopa6 said:

im so happy i did it, i feel amazing

Are you going to keep that streak alive and continue feeling great?

I hope you do and I hope you keep coming back.

[Reagan1k 3024]

@Cletus and @kingkoopa6   - One month or 43 days is a big deal.  I'm happy for both of you.

Keep ticking off those individual days and the months will fly by, then it'll be years. 

Keep doing the deal and when you have struggles, tell someone....it takes the power out of it.

I look forward to both of you continuing to update us on your progress and milestones of sobriety.

 

[kingkoopa6 8345]

20 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Are you going to keep that streak alive and continue feeling great?

I hope you do and I hope you keep coming back.

Id like to keep going-  absolutely- i love the way i feel right now. its magical 

one day at a time is 1000% the way to go.. if i think any further than that, it starts fucking with my head about why am i even doing this.. 

[MissingInAction 25009]

Came across this tik tok account where a fellow alcoholic documents the many lies and behaviors we use to fool ourselves and our loved ones.

Hard to watch but thats what truth is sometimes

https://www.tiktok.com/@scottfreda?_t=8X05SsVWMbj&_r=1

 

[Reagan1k 3024]

1 hour ago, kingkoopa6 said:

Id like to keep going-  absolutely- i love the way i feel right now. its magical 

one day at a time is 1000% the way to go.. if i think any further than that, it starts fucking with my head about why am i even doing this.. 

There are literally millions of other people walking this earth today doing it the same way.  Don't drink today.  Tomorrow is another day.

We're not guaranteed tomorrow so why worry about if I'll drink then or not.  Focus on today and live in the moment, doing the next thing in front of me.

Not a bad way to live....certainly better than me living in a progressively worsening state of just existing until the next drink.

I wish you the best, and if life sober is too much to bear, please reach out.

 

[Texzilla58 4731]

Good work KK and Cletus! Happy for you both. Keep with the program and live in the day each day. Keep bringing your accomplishments here.

[Macanudo 12975]

5 hours ago, MissingInAction said:

Came across this tik tok account where a fellow alcoholic documents the many lies and behaviors we use to fool ourselves and our loved ones.

 

This weekend my passenger was getting something from my center console of my car and pulled out a container of mints.   She asked how long they had been in there.   I answered "well, since at least February.  Back when I, uh, you know... Was drinking."

Her response was "Yeah, like these really fooled me."

I told myself at the time, in February and before, that they had fooled people.  

Nope.

Hang in there Koopa and Cletus.

 

[TwiceHorn 31438]

17 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

This weekend my passenger was getting something from my center console of my car and pulled out a container of mints.   She asked how long they had been in there.   I answered "well, since at least February.  Back when I, uh, you know... Was drinking."

Her response was "Yeah, like these really fooled me."

I told myself at the time, in February and before, that they had fooled people.  

Nope.

Hang in there Koopa and Cletus.

 

You can't smell vodka!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Never really bought into that one myself, but Lord knows I thought I was fooling people.

[BearSchlong 8083]

Here’s a story of alcoholic tragedy. A former colleague whom I had great respect as an exec and as a person, who introduced me to my current boss, died in late 20. His widow just sent me a letter he left for her to send a list of friends. Tore me up.

This guy had a great marriage to his high school sweetheart, two high achieving college age kids, white picket fence, and strong industry cred. I worked with him from 2005 - 07. We became good friends.

He retired from his later job and took a gig delivering car parts which he said he loved. Anyway he called me last October and said “I’m an uncontrollable unrepentant alcoholic. Been to rehab 4 times. Wife is divorcing me. Job found out I was a drunk and fired me. Kids won’t let me come around them or grandkids because of me being a drunk”. I was shocked. Never saw him have more than a single cocktail or beer at dinner. Evidently he had periods of heavy drinking but didn’t have issues until after we worked together.

At the time my mother was dying or I would have flown to Virginia to drag him to rehab. We talked a while. I asked if his wife would take him back if he got sober but he doubted she would trust him again and that he had hurt and disappointed her too many times. Told him to get his ass to rehab asap. Rejected the notion. Said he was exploring some new treatments that didn’t demand absolute sobriety. Said he had to leave the house by end of the year and he would likely be homeless. I begged him to get help. I followed up with a few calls but didn’t get a response.

On Christmas Day the wife and kids stopped by to see him for a brief visit. He had committed suicide with pills and booze. I realize his call wasn’t a plea for help but a goodbye call. I know he did it out of despair over losing his family, the only thing I knew him to be truly passionate about. Still, such a selfish act to inflict on his wife and kids, in the house she was returning to.

The wife had just gotten to the point she could forward his letter. It was basically an apology for checking out, an admission of failure, and a thank you for friendship. Just terrible.

Whatever you do, do everything you can to hold your sobriety and keep your loved ones and support structures close. This is an insidious disease and condition that has wrecked havoc in my life as I’ve lost so many through the years. I just hate it.

Awful story yet typical for many alcoholics. I’m confused on one point. Was it an explicit suicide letter he left?

That would be oddly surprising. If you hadn’t mentioned the letter, my first thought was that it wasn’t a deliberate suicide, but rather an unfortunate evening where he simply overshot the mark.

Or as my friend Earl H. says, “some nights I was content to just keep checking my own pulse.”

[hullabelew 3723]

Early in sobriety, I mentioned to a friend that I had a bad day the previous day and he said, "Did you really have a bad day or did you have a bad 5 minutes that you hung on to the rest of the day".  

If I'm having a shit day or if stuff starts to pile up on me, I can just restart my day at any time, as many times as I need to.   

[TwiceHorn 31438]

9 minutes ago, hullabelew said:

Early in sobriety, I mentioned to a friend that I had a bad day the previous day and he said, "Did you really have a bad day or did you have a bad 5 minutes that you hung on to the rest of the day".  

If I'm having a shit day or if stuff starts to pile up on me, I can just restart my day at any time, as many times as I need to.   

Wisdom for the ages.

[hullabelew 3723]

18 hours ago, Cletus said:

Hey yall just checking in. Normally don't post, but thought I'd share. Just did 30 days of residential and am now in IOP. I've got a total of 43 days under my belt, and today was my first day back at work. It sucks but reading through this thread has been extremely helpful today. I'm sure my employer disagrees but oh well. Thanks Yall. 

The guy who does the Cuttin' Grass podcast told me "Rehab taught me how to get sober.  IOP taught me how to live and stay sober".    I did the same as you....Residential/IOP then eased back in to work.  It helped me ease back in to life after being in the protective bubble of rehab.  Best advice I got was "Don't rush yourself".  

Edited November 2, 2022 by hullabelew

[Cletus 57]

48 minutes ago, hullabelew said:

The guy who does the Cuttin' Grass podcast told me "Rehab taught me how to get sober.  IOP taught me how to live and stay sober".    I did the same as you....Residential/IOP then eased back in to work.  It helped me ease back in to life after being in the protective bubble of rehab.  Best advice I got was "Don't rush yourself".  

Yeah work was difficult yesterday. Everything was the same as when I left, but I'm different now. I am not sure how to feel about it.

[TwiceHorn 31438]

Just now, Cletus said:

Yeah work was difficult yesterday. Everything was the same as when I left, but I'm different now. I am not sure how to feel about it.

Well one thing you're probably feeling, that is common among us, is that everyone is looking at you funny.  The reality is that people are less concerned with you than you believe, and your allies are probably very happy for you and glad you got some help.  They may not know how to approach you and say that, but you can feel pretty confident that they do.

And, I think you will find that "haters" more often than not are struggling with similar problems and how to deal with them and are therefore jealous and resentful.

[Texzilla58 4731]

Awful story yet typical for many alcoholics. I’m confused on one point. Was it an explicit suicide letter he left?

That would be oddly surprising. If you hadn’t mentioned the letter, my first thought was that it wasn’t a deliberate suicide, but rather an unfortunate evening where he simply overshot the mark.

Or as my friend Earl H. says, “some nights I was content to just keep checking my own pulse.”

He left a letter for his wife and each of his kids so it was a deliberate act, although had he not sped it along with pain meds he had stashed from a knee replacement he was killing himself slowly.

The note he wrote to me was written earlier after we had spoken. It was more a note written in anticipation that he would die soon rather than a suicide note. Like he expected to die soon just from the ravages of the disease. Evidently his father died of final stage alcoholism. It was a short apology for allowing his drinking to interfere with his professional life, his friendships, etc. I’ve talked to some peers and that got notes as well, all similar.

I have some guilt that I should have flown to Richmond and dragged his ass to a long term facility. I know that the tough love his family had taken, including his divorce, was a last gasp measure they hoped would force him to treatment. My last conversation with his he had completely surrendered to the addiction and wasn’t going to do anything to fight it. I agree with their stance; I’ve never seen enabling move an addict towards sobriety. Supposedly it took a few years by the daughter to get mom into Al-anon and figure out her role.

My dad went from teetotaler to beer drinking Baptist to problem drinker binge drinker alcoholic. He never faced it.

I only brought this story to throw some reality out there about how easy fucking alcohol can sneak into a life a destroy it. My friend had really built a near perfect life built on so much love and yet it wasn’t enough in the end to rescue him.

I know how hard it is to fight; the struggles some of you have daily to get sober and maintain it. Whatever you do always face the love that comes into your life and fight with all you got to keep it. They won’t let you go as long as you don’t . Find the light and battle your demons; we will all help you how we can.
God bless you all.

[BearSchlong 8083]

Thanks for the additional information.  I guess for some alcoholics, that's the way it happens.  Blaming alcohol rather than taking responsibility to get treated for a known disease.  The insanity of that was first evident when you mentioned he was exploring treatments that didn't involve complete abstinence.  In other words, he got killed by what I consider to be the addiction industrial complex.  The ultimate FAFO.  I'll pray for you, his ex-wife, his children, and everyone who loved him, may there be solace found in the realization that nothing could have been done for him, his human resources had failed him.  It's not tough love when you're trying to shorten someone's suffering, the paradox is that helping causes harm.

When well-intentioned non-alcoholics mention the "fight" or "struggle," it makes me wince. To the recovering or recovered alcoholic, there is simply no fight.  It's lay down your sword, surrender to win mentality.  You're either done, or you're not.

The BBOAA describes the posture on pages 84-85; of course, you have to work through the 9th step, but it's the 10th step promise:  "And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition."

I sure as hell ain't interested in "not drinking;" and doubly uninterested in "struggling."  That dog doesn't hunt.  I'm obstinate, so it took me 22 years to reach that point.

4 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well one thing you're probably feeling, that is common among us, is that everyone is looking at you funny.  The reality is that people are less concerned with you than you believe, and your allies are probably very happy for you and glad you got some help.  They may not know how to approach you and say that, but you can feel pretty confident that they do.

And, I think you will find that "haters" more often than not are struggling with similar problems and how to deal with them and are therefore jealous and resentful.

You spot it, you got it?

[YGIFS 19449]

My main meeting place does that paragraph out loud at most meetings.  Is that the usual everywhere?  Also, a few months in...I have to finally ask a dumb question...I assume the book has been formatted so that whenever anyone cites a page...we're all looking at the same text?  Because I see different versions/tablets.  But I tend to have the main copy that gets distributed. 

Some of the stories y'all have shared the last couple pages are just gut-wrenching.  

I often wonder if I should be inviting more people into my support network or if I should just keep my head down and stay working.  I know, I know...quit thinking.  

[BearSchlong 8083]

All pages I've ever quoted or heard quoted in meetings are from the 4th Edition of the big book. If I don't have a physical copy handy, I'll use the search function in my Kindle edition.

The idea is that the first 164 pages in the 1st through 4th editions are consistent. It will be interesting to see if gender-inclusive language is adopted for the 5th edition.

I'd say the overwhelming majority of meetings start with the serenity prayer, the preamble, and “How It Works.” Still, my home meeting begins with “More about alcoholism” we also end with the 7th step prayer rather than the lord’s prayer. Unsure as to how that came about.

I heard a good one a few minutes ago from Rob Dial, which supports my position that good sponsorship and a strong network of long-time sober friends are essential. “When inside the jar, you can't read the label.”

[pch 1259]

19 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

 

I heard a good one a few minutes ago from Rob Dial, which supports my position that good sponsorship and a strong network of long-time sober friends are essential. “When inside the jar, you can't read the label.”

That has depth-some of my sponsees will be hearing this in the coming days.  Thanks.

 

[BearSchlong 8083]

  
I often wonder if I should be inviting more people into my support network or if I should just keep my head down and stay working.  I know, I know...quit thinking.  

A parable.

My 2nd AA meeting ever I was in a run-down building on the “wrong” side of the tracks.

At first glance, people at that meeting did not match my ethnicity, education, or socioeconomic status.

I sat next to an old geezer in a straw cowboy hat who was prattling on about how as a young buck he was a street bum in New Orleans who shot a guy and ended up in Angola prison. Upon his eventual release, he became a crackhead wandering the streets of Beaumont. Yadda yadda yadda he recovered, got a good life, etc.

I missed that message because I was too busy thinking about my own fall from grace; after all, if I was going to be in this AA thing then these were my new peers.

When I returned “home” (the guest house at my father’s estate) I was telling dad about this guy and his tale of woe and dad got a huge shit-eating grin on his face and told me the next time I saw him I was to introduce myself, kiss him on the forehead, and pass along dads love and affection.

“Wait, dad, you actually know that guy?”

His reply was that not only did he know him, that over the previous 20 years they had become close friends and that the man had built a halfway house from scratch and since 1992 had helped thousands of guys get sober.

Furthermore, he had learned how to read, and earned a GED, a BA, and a MA, so his educational credentials exceeded mine. He was a land owner, had a doting wife, and was a good father.

Armed with this new perspective, he became a valuable resource. I spent hundreds of hours with him, and when he would call me out, I would take the criticism constructively.

The evening that stands out is when I showed up at our regular Wednesday night men’s meeting with a massive resentment about something (probably divorce/ex wife issues). He told me to sit down, shut up, and read page 90 of the 12 and 12.

“It is a spiritual axiom that whenever we are disturbed, there is something wrong with us.”

My suggestion is that you get out, explore every group, and try to find the winners. Watch and listen and they will be revealed.

And for gods sake, work the steps with a sponsor. Mine is an old lawyer who can see through any bullshit I fling against the wall.

[Aqua Buddha 14582]

I check in on this thread from time to time and found that a lot of posters on it are experts on addiction and I mean that as a complete compliment.

That being said, what your thoughts on Matthew Perry?  I always knew he was wheels off but he's been making the rounds now, talking about his endless amount of problems that seemed to end like yesterday or something.  He seems disingenuous to me in some ways, like it's addiction porn.  I know some people are happy for him because they like Chandler Bing but I find him to be a sad case.  He was on Colbert the other night and looked like hammered shit.

Thoughts on his case?

[hornbri 1396]

I am a little fuzzy on the timeline from addiction, to sober, to writing a book about it. But it seems pretty fast to me. 

To each his own, I hope he really has found peace with his demons. 

[YGIFS 19449]

21 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

All pages I've ever quoted or heard quoted in meetings are from the 4th Edition of the big book. If I don't have a physical copy handy, I'll use the search function in my Kindle edition.

The idea is that the first 164 pages in the 1st through 4th editions are consistent. It will be interesting to see if gender-inclusive language is adopted for the 5th edition.

I'd say the overwhelming majority of meetings start with the serenity prayer, the preamble, and “How It Works.” Still, my home meeting begins with “More about alcoholism” we also end with the 7th step prayer rather than the lord’s prayer. Unsure as to how that came about.

I heard a good one a few minutes ago from Rob Dial, which supports my position that good sponsorship and a strong network of long-time sober friends are essential. “When inside the jar, you can't read the label.”

 Again, I was just curious because some folks cite specific pages so saliently like the bible.  I've got 4th edition from 2001.  Personal stories start on page 171.  But yeah, most folks seem to know exact pages despite different copies.  Just little things I'm trying to pick up on.  I know, I know...quit thinking...;just do the work.  I'm getting to a point where I think I should let more and more people know about my shit.  Almost everybody has been very supportive so it can't hurt.  Save for a few assholes who saw it as a chance to take advantage of me.  But I'm not a terribly outgoing person.  Believe it or not, in real life, I don't talk much.  But support network can;'t hurt.  I dunno, nevermind.  Been a long week.  Not as long as Matthew Perry's apparently  

[Cletus 57]

11 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

 Again, I was just curious because some folks cite specific pages so saliently like the bible.  I've got 4th edition from 2001.  Personal stories start on page 171.  But yeah, most folks seem to know exact pages despite different copies.  Just little things I'm trying to pick up on.  I know, I know...quit thinking...;just do the work.  I'm getting to a point where I think I should let more and more people know about my shit.  Almost everybody has been very supportive so it can't hurt.  Save for a few assholes who saw it as a chance to take advantage of me.  But I'm not a terribly outgoing person.  Believe it or not, in real life, I don't talk much.  But support network can;'t hurt.  I dunno, nevermind.  Been a long week.  Not as long as Matthew Perry's apparently  

As far as sharing and support network, I've found (in my short time in recovery) that the people I have been meeting have been nothing but awesome. They are from all different walks of life, but we all have that one thing in common. I struggle from severe depression and social anxiety, hence why this is really the only thread I comment in, and they have really helped me come out of my shell so to speak. That's just been my experience. One final thing I have to tell myself daily is this is MY recovery and no one else's, so find what works for you.

[Celery Man 20931]

I had assumed that Perry had been sober for awhile, but I know nothing except that he has a book or something out because i've seen it here and talked about in other places. My assumption that he had been sober for a while is based on the fact that i know he was coked out on Friends 20 years ago and he isn't dead now.

There was someone else... young female singer, I think Disney star, maybe Demi Lovato? (google indicates yes). I had some vague thoughts around some of her very public sobriety journey/songs/docs/statements where it seemed like she was still in the fucking around stage but didn't realize it/seemed to be projecting like she had authority.

But, my reaction to that (which I think is probably typical for recovery people) is mostly "bless her heart". If that's the state that Perry is in, good luck to him. I think the version of "person who should continue listening is talking very loud in public" that rankles me is the non alcoholic problem drinker peddling an alcoholism solution for money. That pisses me off because it kills people like me. Although even there, there's plenty of room for subtlety and solutions/approaches for problem drinking are needed for non alcoholics as well.

23 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

 Believe it or not, in real life, I don't talk much.  

[YGIFS 19449]

Ha ha, funny guy.  Ask around, there are several people on here in real life that know me.  I don't like talking.  Never have.  Always had trouble understanding the fascination people had with communicating in real life.  Had the party chair of Texas once tell me that I could run for office successfully but for the fact that I was a social recluse.  What he didn't know is I masked the awkwardness with copious amounts of booze.  

[Aqua Buddha 14582]

I thought Perry’s addiction was back in the Friends days, too, but as recently as 2019, his colon burst because he was doing so many pills/booze.

His teeth fell out right before the Friends reunion but that could have been residual damage from years of drugs.

[DallasHorn26 586]

22 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

I heard a good one a few minutes ago from Rob Dial, which supports my position that good sponsorship and a strong network of long-time sober friends are essential. “When inside the jar, you can't read the label.”

I don't know what I would do without my network of sober friends now, or my sponsor.  I feel like these guys are the first real friends I've ever had and they're not afraid to give me hard truths when I need them. There is so much more to this thing than sitting in a meeting for an hour at a time sipping Folgers.

We were talking to a guy the other night before the meeting who was about 60 days in, fresh out of treatment. He said he was going through a divorce, unemployed and living off the money form selling this house. Said none of those things were a result of his alcoholism... When asked if he had a sponsor, "I'm not sure that I need one." One of the more outspoken guys in my group just looked at him and said, "well man, you're probably gonna drink again". 

[BearSchlong 8083]

Perry’s book is packed in my carry-on; I will read it this weekend.

I'll probably take offense when he starts violating traditions but whatever.

It's either that or Robert Caro’s book about Robert Moses which is well over 1000 pages and probably weighs 5 lbs.

[Reagan1k 3024]

18 hours ago, YGIFS said:

 Again, I was just curious because some folks cite specific pages so saliently like the bible.  I've got 4th edition from 2001.

Amazing thing about the Program - the traditions and a fundamental understanding of what works among those that have recovered have led to an almost 100 year run of "if it aint broke don't fix it" since the Program came out in book form. I'm not sure there is anything else in our society that has been this consistent. 

That's one of the key reasons that they wrote the book - so that the directions for recovery did not become watered down or confused through word of mouth.

Keeping those first 164 pages fundamentally unchanged through four editions allows a drunk like me to know that if I do what is suggested on those pages I can recover.

Most often you hear page references to things that have become habit in our 10th and 11th Steps - many use 86-88 as a way to start their day "On awakening...".  Or, as @BearSchlong referenced above - certain prayers / passages are read at the beginning or end of meetings and as part of that, the page numbers are cited.  It becomes engrained and thus repeated.

That's part of our "tool box" upon which we learn to lean at the direction of a sponsor.

The fellowship is where I go to receive or share experience, strength, and hope....but the Program is the course of action as outlined in the first 164 pages. 

That's why I am so grateful that it hasn't been changed, because I know it works.  The first 100 didn't really have a fellowship.  Hell, they didn't even have a Big Book.  They had a series of actions they took in a precise order and methodology from which they recovered with a staggering success rate.

I think it is pretty cool and believe that there is some divine ongoing inspiration in the fact that I could wake up in a time warp, but the Program and guidance would be unchanged. 

I guess it is possible that the Program as outlined in the book could change and I might still find recovery in that, but I'm not willing to FAFO when my life is at stake. 

My mind is out to kill me, so I have no interest in working MY Program.  My best thinking brought me to my knees.

I want to work THE Program that has been more successful than anything science, religion, or personal will power has brought to bear against this disease.

That's a lot of word salad to simply say - I love the fact that the consistency has been such that across time and distance we all read from the same set of precise directions (down to page number and paragraph)....so much so that that even the googlewebs will auto-fill what I need if I start typing "pages 86 -..." 

 

[Not that Bob 735]

I need a recommendation for a source in Austin. "A friend"...yeah, I know, is in a toxic relationship and alcohol is a big part of it. I don't know how to approach the husband, he is the drinker and, according to the wife, is the abuser, but she is histrionic and keeps secrets. I need to know how to approach either/both of them, probably I need to approach the husband, but I worry about enraging him and causing him to take it out on the wife. I'd like some guidance from someone in Austin. 

[YGIFS 19449]

Uh, I am in no position to give out sobriety advice.  But I have helped more than one woman get out of a shitty situation over the the years.  If I can’t help, I can find someone who can.  At the risk of over promising and under delivering, if this couple is in Austin—-there isn’t much I can’t fix except my own shit.  It’s kinda my jam.  

[Not that Bob 735]

Thanks. Couple not in Austin. I need to know what to do via phone. 

[YGIFS 19449]

Sorry, thought you meant you needed help from someone in Austin.  
 

you thinking an intervention, legal assistance, law enforcement, social worker, fixer, or ???

[Not that Bob 735]

I need a counselor in Austin that can help me begin to "help" people who are in another city. I guess I need to look at ADATC.

[YGIFS 19449]

Gotcha.  I know some good ones here in Austin who deal with this kinda mess.   Lemme know if I can help 

[RockyMountainHighHorn 890]

Anyone else really struggling with anxiety lately? I have fought for about a decade+ but it seems like the past 6 months it has really increased. I’m sure it’s a mix of post Covid life, crazy world, weird finances, fiancé also having bad anxiety now, I can keep going but people have their own list. Just tough when you go to multiple therapists, multiple medicines, and the answer is always “hold on”. Not necessarily needing help, just curious if anyone has found some interesting ways to handle your anxiety. I know grounding techniques, meditation, activity, etc. Also is anyone in this thread an empath or know one? If so please dm me. 

[Kennythetiger 9375]

Rocky, are you clean and sober?  
When I was drinking, my anxiety wasn’t really anxiety- it was real-life shit that was happening. Something small would appear, and rather than deal with it I would drink.  That little small thing then became, over time, something very fucking big that I was forced to face, and face not on my own terms. 
When sober, I’ve learned that anxiety is just that- me becoming anxious.  Much easier dealt-with. 

[Reagan1k 3024]

1 hour ago, RockyMountainHighHorn said:

Also is anyone in this thread an empath or know one? If so please dm me. 

I'd consider myself an empath, but as an alcoholic that means I can read your mind and mood and know for sure what you're thinking, and it's always negative about me.

I have to tune out those empathic feelings and acknowledge that I'm an egomaniac with an inferiority complex.

It's that old saying - It's not what you don't know that's dangerous.  It's what I know for sure that just ain't so that kills me.

[BearSchlong 8083]

I need a recommendation for a source in Austin. "A friend"...yeah, I know, is in a toxic relationship and alcohol is a big part of it. I don't know how to approach the husband, he is the drinker and, according to the wife, is the abuser, but she is histrionic and keeps secrets. I need to know how to approach either/both of them, probably I need to approach the husband, but I worry about enraging him and causing him to take it out on the wife. I'd like some guidance from someone in Austin. 

Have either of them asked for help?

What's your interest in this?

[YGIFS 19449]

Yeah, Not that Bob...don't want to get up all in your business or theirs...but any more detail/background color on this so we can be of more assistance?  

On another note, last night...wanted to be with the surly group at Lavaca Street Bar but kids stuff got in the way all day and I my allergies sound like I have a malaria/Covid cocktail.  Between the horns win and Astros win, I may have been tempted to celebrate.  But I'm actually doing pretty well when it comes to being around booze in public.  Been to a buncha things lately with open/hosted bars and it's really not as tough as I thought it would be and as many of you pointed out, nobody really notices or gives a shit.  However, it is much tougher than I thought it'd be when I'm by myself.  Because I sound like shit, I am missing church and my kitchen volunteer shift this morning, kinda throws me off my routine.  So y'all are just gonna have to read my legible garbage.  

And of course, just when my sleep was getting decent again, the calendar says, "Nah man, fuck you...we're switching up the clocks so your kids wake you at 5:30a today 'cause fuck you!"  Seriously, I realize the alcohol lobby is quite strong, but can't we get together a movement to just settle on either Standard Time or Daylight Saving Time.  I never used to give a shit about the time changes or flying from one time zone to another (provided it wasn't overseas).  But my sleep is so fucked up after not drinking and then my kids jump outta bed at the slightest glimmer of sunlight.  Fun times, fun times.  if that's the worst of it, I can maintain.  

Fun fact-I almost went into a liquor store yesterday, but for a line around the entire building.  I went into that Sam's club off Brodie and noticed a huge line outside of Spec's.  And I thought "what the fuck?  there's two liquor stores literally right down the street."  Woman told me that Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul were inside signing bottles of their new tequila brand.  Presumably the kind that doesn't kill you or your drug kingpin.  But I would have loved to have met them but I guess it's a lame to wait in line, not buy their tequila, demand an autograph, and then pull a Boone from Animal House Food King, "Nothing for me today, thank you."  

[kingkoopa6 8345]

On 11/1/2022 at 9:36 AM, kingkoopa6 said:

Hi KK here, I'm an alcoholic and long time follower in here.

im so happy i did it, i feel amazing- mentally the hardest thing ive ever done. It was really really hard.

 

 

On 11/1/2022 at 11:06 AM, Reagan1k said:

Are you going to keep that streak alive and continue feeling great?

I hope you do and I hope you keep coming back.

 

On 11/6/2022 at 7:21 AM, YGIFS said:

  Been to a buncha things lately with open/hosted bars and it's really not as tough as I thought it would be and as many of you pointed out, nobody really notices or gives a shit. 

Still sober- 46 days- not years like some of you big dawgs.

but for someone who has never been sober for longer than a couple weeks in the past 15 years, im ecstatic.

I did have friends ask if i was ok, or why am im sober, or whats wrong.... -and im not really sure what a good response can be...

I just say, i feel good, i feel better, i needed this, i like the way im feeling now ..

my sugar cravings are through the roof, im getting common colds more often.. 

But im lifting heavier at the gym, my production and work has improved, i make less impulsive decisions when im out.

Being sober is hard, but when i get through the day booze free, its wonderful.

In the past 6ish weeks, events normally i would have pounded booze and got drunk and sloppy

Cowboys @ Rams game

Open Bar Wedding

Austin FC @ LAFC game

Vegas** bruh- this the first time I've ever been sober in Vegas ... but i enjoyed every min of sobriety for this trip.

Music concert

in the past i would do these events and rarely remember much except live through my videos or pictures i may have taken...

this time around, sober is a whole new exciting ball game. 

 

Ygif,  i quoted you because i feel the exact same way.

at my events, once i said im not drinkin, or after i get my water or soda... nobody gave a shit. no ones feelings were hurt, no one said " hey look this guy isn't drinking!" - 

 

Edited November 16, 2022 by kingkoopa6

[YGIFS 19449]

I got nothing on you like these old timers.  But man your story rings true with me.  I have no answers but these folks might.  All I know is be proud of yourself.  I haven’t really stopped beating myself up but for a few times.  
 

this thread was really a huge difference maker for me. While I was nervous about meetings and therapy, friends in recover said “at least dip your toe in some online forums so you see how your struggle is not So different from others.”  So I’d lurk on Reddit and on here.  And I realized “wait; these are my kinda assholes and I know some of them “.  So between this and family support, took the plunge in meetings and other tools.  Back in church.  Was a regular volunteer and into service before Covid but I’ve ramped that back up which helps.  
 

you ever wanna talk with a fellow newbie l’m here. But take advantage of these seasoned vets.  
 

one goddamn thing still———the fuxking sleep.  May you have an easier journey.  

[Celery Man 20931]

Glad you’re still doing the thing, kingkoopa.

 You guys are both right in that generally nobody gives a shit. Especially if you’re past…. I dunno, 30 years old?

I actually told my boss the other day. He invited the wife and I to dinner at his house, he brews, I know he had… cocked his head a bit to the side because I’m somewhat knowledgeable about beer but never drink any. Gave him the heads up that we’re both sober just so he’d know why we turned down drinks and didn’t bring a bottle. Of course no big deal, he had some sparkling water on hand.

 

I scroll through Reddit a lot. Much of my surly and Reddit scrolling is while i’m half watching a toddler destroy my house (so, it’s been on the uptick), and I do look at some of the sobriety subs. There’s some good/useful stuff there but jeez a lot of horrible stuff as well. I think I’m being honest when I say that I’m not an AA zealot and it certainly doesn’t hurt my feelings when people don’t love it or find another path. But there’s a lot of toxicity in those subs on that topic, a lot of it coming from people who are still fucking around and finding out, and it’s a bummer that probably a lot of people trying to find a life raft find that instead.

 

One of the things that I’ve seen a lot of that seems remarkable is the idea that admitting powerlessness in AA is some form of self flagellation, or that AA really crushes people by forcing them admit that they are not the most powerful entity in the universe. I really wish I had more insight into the sobriety of some people claiming long stretches with that kind of ego running wild. But I guess not everyone is like me (where letting go is the most important thing) and , of course, on the internet nobody knows you are a dog.

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Celery Man