I'm An Alcoholic

[Celery Man 21,027]

Also, some REK came on and I just love the line

If I could live my life all over it wouldn’t matter anyway. Cause I never could stay sober on the Corpus Christi bay.

[TwiceHorn 31,686]

14 hours ago, kingkoopa6 said:

 

 

Still sober- 46 days- not years like some of you big dawgs.

but for someone who has never been sober for longer than a couple weeks in the past 15 years, im ecstatic.

I did have friends ask if i was ok, or why am im sober, or whats wrong.... -and im not really sure what a good response can be...

I just say, i feel good, i feel better, i needed this, i like the way im feeling now ..

my sugar cravings are through the roof, im getting common colds more often.. 

But im lifting heavier at the gym, my production and work has improved, i make less impulsive decisions when im out.

Being sober is hard, but when i get through the day booze free, its wonderful.

In the past 6ish weeks, events normally i would have pounded booze and got drunk and sloppy

Cowboys @ Rams game

Open Bar Wedding

Austin FC @ LAFC game

Vegas** bruh- this the first time I've ever been sober in Vegas ... but i enjoyed every min of sobriety for this trip.

Music concert

in the past i would do these events and rarely remember much except live through my videos or pictures i may have taken...

this time around, sober is a whole new exciting ball game. 

 

Ygif,  i quoted you because i feel the exact same way.

at my events, once i said im not drinkin, or after i get my water or soda... nobody gave a shit. no ones feelings were hurt, no one said " hey look this guy isn't drinking!" - 

 

I'm going to observe here that KK may be a classic case of a hard drinker that can stop, versus the AA-alcoholic that can't.

As observed many times on here, hard drinkers and alcoholics that stop will have a period of "pink cloud" euphoria as the body and mind return to non-alcohol-soaked equilibrium.  That's a fairly natural physiological reaction to the cessation of drinking much like tolerance and withdrawal are the natural reactions to excessive drinking.

But in the first 46 days of sobriety, there's a good bit of white-knuckling by the AA-alcoholic that I'm not seeing from KK.  And, doing those "normal drinking activities" that early in sobriety probably should provoke some serious white-knuckling.

KK seems to be engaged in the acid test of AA-alcoholism:  can you stop drinking if you really try?   Hopefully, for KK, the answer is yes.

If in three weeks or three months KK comes back and says, "I dunno wtf happened, but I'm face down in the gutter again," well, we have a solution.

[Dewey 3,314]

14 hours ago, kingkoopa6 said:

 

I just say, i feel good, i feel better, i needed this, i like the way im feeling now ..

 

 

That's all you have to say. If you read up on alcohol, you'll learn it's actually a depressant. That's part of the reason you feel better. The other reason you feel better, is because alcohol is a poison, and that's not in your body anymore. 

[BearSchlong 8,138]

I agree with what twicehorn said about KK. Hard drinkers, the third category in the big book. I have that opinion about many contributors to this thread but none of my concern.

It’s not about stopping; it’s 100% about what will happen when I inevitably pick back up IF I stray from my AA routines. Too many stories about guys with 25+ years sober who have a momentary slip and never make it back.

There’s a big difference between “stopped drinking, feel better” and “stopped drinking, stopped actively contributing to my demise.”

This morning I re-read the doctor's opinion and Bill’s story on a flight. Focused on and considered every sentence. That’s the way I drank.

And I’m grateful for the 22-year beating I took that finally gifted my desperation.

[TwiceHorn 31,686]

10 minutes ago, BearSchlong said:

I agree with what twicehorn said about KK. Hard drinkers, the third category in the big book. I have that opinion about many contributors to this thread but none of my concern.

It’s not about stopping; it’s 100% about what will happen when I inevitably pick back up IF I stray from my AA routines. Too many stories about guys with 25+ years sober who have a momentary slip and never make it back.

There’s a big difference between “stopped drinking, feel better” and “stopped drinking, stopped actively contributing to my demise.”

This morning I re-read the doctor's opinion and Bill’s story on a flight. Focused on and considered every sentence. That’s the way I drank.

And I’m grateful for the 22-year beating I took that finally gifted my desperation.

And, I know you aren't getting me wrong, but I'm in no way trying to judge KK.

Anyone who wants to quit and quits has my hearty congratulations and best wishes.  And if they are able to stay stopped, or resume drinking in moderation, on their own terms, more power to them.

But if you are one of the ones like me and others here that had trouble staying stopped and/or retaining any sort of control after resuming, that's when you start to know you are going to need some help.  And that help exists.

From the outside, this looks like kind of an arbitrary division or selection among problematic drinkers in some sort of weird alcoholic dick-measuring contest.

But, I think if you are like a lot of us, and you quit for a while and you feel the benefits and all the pros, and then somewhat inexplicably fall hard off the wagon, you'll feel a certain despair and hopelessness and know what I'm talking about.

Edited November 17, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Homercles 10,206]

As someone who was almost certainly that classic hard drinker, has posted about it here + TOS and hounded Twice in PMs (thank you again for you help and patience)…just wanted to say that I/we appreciate this thread as a resource that’s welcoming across the spectrum.  
 

I’ve been around long enough that I feel I ‘know’ some of y’all but it’s still anonymous, existing in a weird zone where we can get straight feedback from trusted voices without risking judgement in the real world.  I needed to be told I was probably not an alcoholic, but a problem drinker starting to face consequences, to get the confidence to commit to a moderation strategy that worked for me.  That wouldn’t have happened without following this thread over the years. 
 

So, thank you.  I still enjoy alcohol occasionally but the big difference for me is it’s no longer a ‘fast forward’ button for the stressful/mundane parts of life.  It’s just something I do with friends occasionally.  Once my overall life got right, alcohol was no longer a tool.  Y’all are still a big help for those of us not in the alcoholic dick measuring, and we appreciate being welcomed here.  

[YGIFS 19,453]

"some sort of weird alcoholic dick-measuring contest"     -twicehorn

I have no idea what this means, but it made me laugh and think and cry at the same time.  Thanks man.  

Everyday is a challenge, but it's a different kind of one too.  That's what's so weird to me.  I guess that's the other thing about doing the work is it keeps you on the main goal when all the other variables are changing.  Did three open bar events before the game on Saturday night with almost zero temptation, barely thought about it.  Another one last night, played it cool.  But I know next week with all my in-laws in Fort Worth for 6 days...that's gonna be some fucking white-knuckling.  There's no alcohol in the house save for some $12 wine being saved for the apocalypse apparently.  But my usual "I'll go run that random errand nobody was talking about"...I gotta watch that.  

I have proactively bookmarked and saved an e-copy of the big book to read while "I'm working."  I'll be checking on here regularly to vent (spoiler alert!).  And have my guys on speed dial if I ever get 10 goddamn minutes alone up there.  The second somebody breaks away from the core group of 10+my 2 little ones, everybody literally sits around talking about what that other person could be doing.  And when that person returns, they all ask 2 or 3 questions each about what you were just doing/who you were just talking to.  It's a fucking beating.  Maybe I can use code words 'cause the whole house can hear every phone call, "So uh yeah Jeff, my spreadsheets are freaking out right now and I need to talk about our higher power...source of...data processing.  I am writing out my self-inventory right now and am noting a sliding scale of negativity."   This gone be fun!  

Edited November 17, 2022 by YGIFS

[TwiceHorn 31,686]

31 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

"some sort of weird alcoholic dick-measuring contest"     -twicehorn

 

There does, on occasion, seem to be some sort of competition:  I'm a bigger alky than you are; or, somewhat more likely, if you don't need AA to stay sober you aren't a "real alcoholic."

And that can descend into some of the real counterproductive "old timer" crap, like "you don't need no psych drugs, your program sucks," or "prozac is just another addiction."

I'm not trying to argue any of that.  But, I know there are people posting and not posting in this thread that may be thinking "so and so can quit drinking, why can't I."  Or asking "am I an alcoholic or not."  And KK seems to be a pretty good test case for answering that question.

[Macanudo 13,092]

On 11/4/2022 at 11:54 AM, Kennythetiger said:

Rocky, are you clean and sober?  
When I was drinking, my anxiety wasn’t really anxiety- it was real-life shit that was happening. Something small would appear, and rather than deal with it I would drink.  That little small thing then became, over time, something very fucking big that I was forced to face, and face not on my own terms. 
When sober, I’ve learned that anxiety is just that- me becoming anxious.  Much easier dealt-with. 

I resemble this remark.   My anxiety when I drank was just an excuse to drink.  I recognize that now but ignored it or lied to myself then.  Knowing that actually brings some peace and is a near constant reminder that booze was just an crutch so I need to deal with life sober.   

I passed 8 months earleir this week and due to some work/life issues the past 3-4 months have been really tough.  But being sober through it has made things easier, not harder.  The clarity that I am able to see problems with and deal with them has been amazing.   I might not be able to solve every issue but I'm not worried about how fucked up I was when the problem occured nor when I tried to "fix it."

This may seem like a weird thing to say but more often than not when something happens in one of my relationships now, I'm not the cause or center of the issue.   And that keeps my anxiety down.    

[TwiceHorn 31,686]

6 hours ago, Macanudo said:

I resemble this remark.   My anxiety when I drank was just an excuse to drink.  I recognize that now but ignored it or lied to myself then.  Knowing that actually brings some peace and is a near constant reminder that booze was just an crutch so I need to deal with life sober.   

I passed 8 months earleir this week and due to some work/life issues the past 3-4 months have been really tough.  But being sober through it has made things easier, not harder.  The clarity that I am able to see problems with and deal with them has been amazing.   I might not be able to solve every issue but I'm not worried about how fucked up I was when the problem occured nor when I tried to "fix it."

This may seem like a weird thing to say but more often than not when something happens in one of my relationships now, I'm not the cause or center of the issue.   And that keeps my anxiety down.    

Oh, my anxiety was real enough, although it wasn't a separate illness.

I was so busy trying to control and anticipate outcomes (over which I had little or no control and wasn't effectively controlling what I could) that I was fearful and anxious at every turn.  It's really pretty exhausting to be that way.

And I still have a tendency to be that way, but I have the tools to throttle it back now without pouring alcohol all over it.

[Basil 760]

Well lads, my time has come. I’ve known I was an alcoholic for probably ten years. I don’t get crazy or mean but I have to have that fix every night. Attempts of quitting have all failed. I got busted tonight stealth drinking (it’s mostly all stealth drinking at this point) and the only option seems to be in-house treatment.

I know the advice I’m looking for is in this thread somewhere but I don’t have the wherewithal to search it out. Any advice? My wife wants me in treatment asap. That’s probably the best thing but I’d like to get past the holidays. Work issues - would be better mid-February.

I could keep this up for probably years but it’s time to address it."

[Dewey 3,314]

Stealth drinking, and most everyone knows you drink too much. You're the only one who thinks it's stealth, trust me. As for when you should go, I'd say right now in a dream scenario, but maybe by February you'll hit a rock bottom you could never imagine. 

It sounds like your wife caught you drinking again and to please her, you are going to quit (not really). Your in-house treatment wont last long. 

You need to quit for yourself, not for your wife or kids, parents, family, friends. You'll feel the most helpless, the most down you've ever been, when nothing is left. All answers are gone and the only thing that seems like an answer is help, then you'll be ready. 

I wish you all the best, this is something you can achieve, we all have it in us, just get going. 

[YGIFS 19,453]

^
What this guy said.  

It's not possible for every single one of us to just remove ourselves from work and home for a month and work on our shit at a place with nature words in its name.  I'm in that some morass myself.  But what we can do is start the work immediately.  I don't know shit about fuck, the work and the goal are the same for everybody, but how we go about it is different for everyone.  I'll let the seasoned vets walk you through it, but you acknowledged it (no judgement on how it happened---been there myself)...so that's something.  But don't let it be the only thing.  Build upon that.  I dunno, I got nothing.  But god bless you and your family and wish you continued progress.  

[Kennythetiger 9,500]

47 minutes ago, Dewey said:

Stealth drinking, and most everyone knows you drink too much. You're the only one who thinks it's stealth, trust me. As for when you should go, I'd say right now in a dream scenario, but maybe by February you'll hit a rock bottom you could never imagine. 

It sounds like your wife caught you drinking again and to please her, you are going to quit (not really). Your in-house treatment wont last long. 

You need to quit for yourself, not for your wife or kids, parents, family, friends. You'll feel the most helpless, the most down you've ever been, when nothing is left. All answers are gone and the only thing that seems like an answer is help, then you'll be ready. 

I wish you all the best, this is something you can achieve, we all have it in us, just get going. 

You got busted quite a bit before that- just no one said anything. 

[hullabelew 3,724]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:29 PM, Celery Man said:

Also, some REK came on and I just love the line

If I could live my life all over it wouldn’t matter anyway. Cause I never could stay sober on the Corpus Christi bay.

I really love Todd Snider's version.   It had a much different vibe than REK's original.  Stripped down, sounds hungover and full of regret, sorrow and shame.

 

[hullabelew 3,724]

This one kills me every time I hear it.  Cory Branan also has a great one called The Freefall, but all of the YT versions suck.  It is from his album, Mutt. 

Has several great verses but the overall feeling is one of despair.

"And I was fucked up As my haircut
She was wasting Good perfume"

 

 

[Celery Man 21,027]

10 hours ago, Basil said:

Well lads, my time has come. I’ve known I was an alcoholic for probably ten years. I don’t get crazy or mean but I have to have that fix every night. Attempts of quitting have all failed. I got busted tonight stealth drinking (it’s mostly all stealth drinking at this point) and the only option seems to be in-house treatment.

I know the advice I’m looking for is in this thread somewhere but I don’t have the wherewithal to search it out. Any advice? My wife wants me in treatment asap. That’s probably the best thing but I’d like to get past the holidays. Work issues - would be better mid-February.

I could keep this up for probably years but it’s time to address it."

Curious how waiting an additional quarter to get help will work out for you, so keep us posted. La Hacienda in Hunt near Kerrville is a good place.

[BearSchlong 8,138]

And, I know you aren't getting me wrong, but I'm in no way trying to judge KK.
Anyone who wants to quit and quits has my hearty congratulations and best wishes.  And if they are able to stay stopped, or resume drinking in moderation, on their own terms, more power to them.
But if you are one of the ones like me and others here that had trouble staying stopped and/or retaining any sort of control after resuming, that's when you start to know you are going to need some help.  And that help exists.
From the outside, this looks like kind of an arbitrary division or selection among problematic drinkers in some sort of weird alcoholic dick-measuring contest.
But, I think if you are like a lot of us, and you quit for a while and you feel the benefits and all the pros, and then somewhat inexplicably fall hard off the wagon, you'll feel a certain despair and hopelessness and know what I'm talking about.

I miss the good old days when Cajunhorn would come in here and get all militant about the 4 types of drinkers described in the big book.

Over the years, I’ve often thought that this thread should be renamed “field research - Am I a problem drinker or an alcoholic?”

Alternatively, a 2nd thread “Welcome to AA. Coffee is over there.”

[BearSchlong 8,138]

Well lads, my time has come. I’ve known I was an alcoholic for probably ten years. I don’t get crazy or mean but I have to have that fix every night. Attempts of quitting have all failed. I got busted tonight stealth drinking (it’s mostly all stealth drinking at this point) and the only option seems to be in-house treatment.

I know the advice I’m looking for is in this thread somewhere but I don’t have the wherewithal to search it out. Any advice? My wife wants me in treatment asap. That’s probably the best thing but I’d like to get past the holidays. Work issues - would be better mid-February.

I could keep this up for probably years but it’s time to address it."

Why don’t you just go to a few AA meetings and just listen? They can be attended around your work schedule. 7 am, 5:30 or 6:30 or 7:30 pm. Noontime. Maybe tell the meeting secretary “this is my first meeting, I’d like to hear how the rest of you ended up here?”

Or are you going to need a medical detox?

I am biased, because I had an incredibly easy entry into AA (18 yr sober dad) and was married to a psychopath who currently runs several rehabs. I did not go to rehab. I have seen people go to rehab once and get sober, and a dozen times and not get sober.

AA can be started immediately, is essentially free, and the people there learned about alcoholism by experiencing it and not attempting to understand it through schooling.

If you were going hunting, would you hire a seasoned guide who had shot plenty of game, or would you hire someone who had never felt what it was like to peer through a sight and pull a trigger?

[BearSchlong 8,138]

Curious how waiting an additional quarter to get help will work out for you, so keep us posted. La Hacienda in Hunt near Kerrville is a good place.

They are 12 step based and have a well developed alumni network too. And though I didn’t attend rehab, I do give credit to Dr. Boone for explaining some scientific things to me which augmented my recovery. Spent a morning with him once.

I know lots of guys who went there and stayed sober, and my one and only AA girlfriend went there and ended up drinking herself dead. And Chris Raymer had been her counselor, and he is one of my favorite speakers, so it wasn’t like she didn’t get exposed to the solution.

There is a great AA meeting held at the La Hacienda “office” off of Blanco in SATX that I enjoy.

[YGIFS 19,453]

Yeah, Basil---where are you in Texas?  I am not in a place to take you to a meeting or whatever.  But we're on a pretty similar tack and I can share some insight on meetings in terms of "vibe" or part of town.  Or you just google it and I'll shut up.  Anything to help you get started.  

[Celery Man 21,027]

yeah basil, go sit in some AA meetings. It's really really not a big deal to do so, it will be very informative and helpful for you. I assume you're in Dallas/Houston/Austin?

 

3 hours ago, hullabelew said:

I really love Todd Snider's version.   It had a much different vibe than REK's original.  Stripped down, sounds hungover and full of regret, sorrow and shame.

 

it is interesting how just kinda the timbre of his voice and delivery is enough to give it a different feel. Man I do love this song - this is one of those funny... I assume people at REK shows raise their beers and sing the chorus, and it's about a man who has lost his entire life to booze and is resigned enough to know that nothing would be different if he had a second shot at things.

[BearSchlong 8,138]

^
What this guy said.  
It's not possible for every single one of us to just remove ourselves from work and home for a month and work on our shit at a place with nature words in its name.  I'm in that some morass myself.  But what we can do is start the work immediately.  I don't know shit about fuck, the work and the goal are the same for everybody, but how we go about it is different for everyone.  I'll let the seasoned vets walk you through it, but you acknowledged it (no judgement on how it happened---been there myself)...so that's something.  But don't let it be the only thing.  Build upon that.  I dunno, I got nothing.  But god bless you and your family and wish you continued progress.  

You need to start giving yourself some credit as you 100% do know shit about fuck. I cannot WAIT to read your posts in coming years. I anticipate them.

Your experience is authentic, and it is yours. I’m very proud of my 22 years of alcoholic drinking because it was necessary for me to remove all reservations - for now.

The right answers are different for everyone.

Sobriety has been described as “a $ million program you get a nickel at a time”

Even if you’re still drunk but visiting with sober people, that’s authentic experience.

A guy I sponsored got sober in AA to prove it didn’t work. He wanted to go out and tell his friends “I tried AA and worked their steps and it is a useless fraud, and they are a despicable cult.” He’s got 7 years now, we share a sponsor, and I’d have no qualms about asking him to sponsor me one day.

Another dear friend was sober for 13 years, drank for 4, and just picked up his 2nd 13 year chip. I’ve done step work with him but he is almost female and I just don’t process emotions the same way he does so while I love him like a sibling, I have to draw the line at trying to experience emotions as frequently as he would recommend. I’d be sobbing all day, every day. But I respect his sobriety and his sponsor (female) has passed on a lot of valuable things through him. He was the one who taught me the value of indifference - more accurately, ambivalence.

Another guy I took through the steps was into meth, facing 20 more yrs in TDC, got a reprieve, worked the steps, stayed sober 8 years, relapsed briefly on alcohol, and is 6 months sober now. But that experience was necessary to remove his reservation around alcohol. Otherwise, he went from a white supremist prison gang shot caller to someone I love like a brother. He didn’t lose that when he relapsed, it was just necessary.

I didn’t get sober because I wanted to. I had to get sober because I wasn’t ready to die.

And as a result, I got to witness the 3 aforementioned miracles.

We recover together.

[BearSchlong 8,138]

Anybody been to a meeting in Canyon?

Since I didn’t die of active alcoholism, I’m sitting here next to a roaring fire overlooking Palo Duro canyon thanking God for the spiritual fitness that allowed me to say to my MIL “of COURSE I love beans in my chili.”

[BearSchlong 8,138]

Rocky, are you clean and sober?  
When I was drinking, my anxiety wasn’t really anxiety- it was real-life shit that was happening. Something small would appear, and rather than deal with it I would drink.  That little small thing then became, over time, something very fucking big that I was forced to face, and face not on my own terms. 
When sober, I’ve learned that anxiety is just that- me becoming anxious.  Much easier dealt-with. 

I’m fond of this analogy.

Imagine a football team that only arm tackles and punts on 1st down every time.

[Basil 760]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Some of the assumptions are off but the underlying story is the same. I’m scheduled to enter rehab 1/4. I’ve never been through a medical detox or whatever comes after it - all I know is I get bent out-of-my-skin if I don’t get my fix.

Any advice on what detox is like? And I know that’s a loaded question that may not be answerable. I have nightly cravings but don’t day drink. I don’t have day cravings and don’t get smashed in the blackout sense. But come 5-7 at night that demon is there and demands some drinks, every night.

I think I’ll try some AA meetings. Any recs for west Houston?

[Basil 760]

Oops double.

[BearSchlong 8,138]

Post oak AA.

Google it.

[TwiceHorn 31,686]

On 11/20/2022 at 10:57 PM, Basil said:

Thanks everyone for the advice. Some of the assumptions are off but the underlying story is the same. I’m scheduled to enter rehab 1/4. I’ve never been through a medical detox or whatever comes after it - all I know is I get bent out-of-my-skin if I don’t get my fix.

Any advice on what detox is like? And I know that’s a loaded question that may not be answerable. I have nightly cravings but don’t day drink. I don’t have day cravings and don’t get smashed in the blackout sense. But come 5-7 at night that demon is there and demands some drinks, every night.

I think I’ll try some AA meetings. Any recs for west Houston?

Detox is fine.  They give you librium or some other benzo and check your blood pressure and pulse a lot.

The danger is having a seizure and stroking out, and that can happen pretty easily to someone who's been a daily drinker for a long time.

You'll still feel a bit "itchy," but at least it won't kill you.

[Basil 760]

Detox is fine.  They give you librium or some other benzo and check your blood pressure and pulse a lot.
The danger is having a seizure and stroking out, and that can happen pretty easily to someone who's been a daily drinker for a long time.
You'll still feel a bit "itchy," but at least it won't kill you.

That’s good to hear. Thanks.

Post oak AA.

Google it.

I will do this. I will be attending my first AA meeting in the near future.

[YGIFS 19,453]

Sent you an email.  Take this Advice with a grain of salt.  I made myself attend my first meeting in person.  Shook hands, took out trash, chatted outside, got a hard copy of the big book and lots of phone numbers of super helpful people.  Since then, I’ve done the majority of meetings on zoom.  But try and start in person if you can.  But either way works but do as many as you can before 1/4.  
 

You’ll be shocked at how relieved you feel just listening to people say out loud the shit that’s been clamoring around in your head for many years.  I’m guessing the facility you’re attending requires verbal participation.  So while you can, this month…just attend and listen.  It is so much more helpful than my previous self realized.  
 

Not drinking is really hard.  Harder than we are led to believe.  But at a certain point, the body and mind just get tired.  Maybe it won’t kill us, but the chore and laborious task of it all, I’m just wiped out.  It’s exhausting, almost as tiring as flossing. 

[Basil 760]

Went to my PCP and talked things through. He gave me some Librium. Tonight about 10:00 will be the 72-hour mark and everything has been fine. I’m embarrassed and kicking myself I didn’t try this sooner. I was scared of withdrawal and, more than that, failing. So I just kept kicking the can down the road.

I know there’s a long, long way to go but the first step has been good. I’ll be at a meeting tonight, will not drink today, and wake up tomorrow without a hangover.

[YGIFS 19,453]

Good to hear, man.  Got your email and sorry I didn't respond.  Didn't really know what to say other than keep at it.  I'll say that sometimes just typing/writing shit out is so fucking helpful.  Sometimes, it's futile.  But usually, it's a really big help.  Shit, I sometimes just email myself or just post shit here just so I can go back and reread it with a clearer head.  Other times, you need another human to engage with, but nothing wrong with putting pen/keyboards to paper and working through your shit.  Obviously, meetings and other tools help as well.  72-hours is a big benchmark.  That's kinda when my massive symptoms waned.  But gave way to other shit like brain fog, sleeplessness, nerves, etc.  We're all different.  Our goal is the same, but the journey is way different.  I had a fucking horrible week leading up to Thanksgiving.  Long story I'll share another time.  

But Basil, congrats on making it this far and having this much self-awareness.  Withdrawal and failing are nothing to snicker at.  They are real things that loom over us.  But you know what?  It's shit.  It's all shit.  Everything fucking blows.  Sobriety, drinking, anxiety, addiction, recovery, high functioning alcoholism.  It's all a morass of shit.  I give myself over to a higher power when I can, but it's all shit.  Hold the people you love and try to do better for them.  Otherwise, there's no fucking purpose to this rock.  I don't need to quit, I don't need to recover.  I don't need booze and I don't need to do the work to quit.  I just got tired and want to be more in the present for my kids.  So whatever that entails, I'm willing to try.  

Hone in that thing that makes you want to stay sober and hold on to it.  Because the steps, the tools, the network, the support, the examples, the cautionary tales, the treatments, all of it ebbs and flows and comes and goes.  You'll even have a healthy debate with yourself on whether or not it's even fucking worth the effort.  Listen to these old timers and remember the thing that made you see the light to begin with.  Those moments in life are few and far between.  Clarity is hard enough to come by sober.  

[hornbri 1,467]

2 hours ago, Basil said:

Went to my PCP and talked things through. He gave me some Librium. Tonight about 10:00 will be the 72-hour mark and everything has been fine. I’m embarrassed and kicking myself I didn’t try this sooner. I was scared of withdrawal and, more than that, failing. So I just kept kicking the can down the road.

I know there’s a long, long way to go but the first step has been good. I’ll be at a meeting tonight, will not drink today, and wake up tomorrow without a hangover.

That is great to hear! It is a good day to not have a drink, I will join you. 

[BearSchlong 8,138]

Like many of you, I get morning texts from quite a few old timers, usually a repost of a meditation. I’ve got one guy who sends me about 5 different meditations/devotional, but this is my favorite.

[YGIFS 19,453]

Sage advice.  What if, every once in a while l, I do have a proper conclusion or two?  
 

I knew everything drunk.  I need to start realizing I know a couple things sober too.  

[Celery Man 21,027]

i'm having a super goddamn rough time with a work situation currently where I see things exactly the opposite as everyone else in a strategy discussion. Or, I am unable to describe my position in a way where other people can understand it. I'm highly accustomed to not getting something and shutting up/learning when I clearly am not in sync with the other smart people, but I also... am pretty highly confident that everyone else is flat wrong here, that they are wrong because they don't know what they are doing, and they hired me because they needed someone who does, and it is explicitly my job to say "hey fuckheads doing x right now is wrong we should be doing y instead". But I'm failing to succeed at that, or... i'm just wrong? But I can't see it, it seems so clear that I'm not, and yet when I describe why what we are doing is bad, nobody refutes it but nobody changes position. And am I just coming across as an asshole at this point.

I guess, to me (as someone who always tested well and found school not hard) it's been good to spend my career around people more technical than I am so that I'm used to being the dumb one. It's good to know that you don't know everything. And it is important to know that you don't know everything if you are an alcoholic who wants to be sober. Critical, even. And I am finding it very challenging to be spending this long in a weird state of being at odds with everyone, being very confident in my position, but constantly second guessing (because I don't know everything and am frequently wrong) and failing to come up with a version of everyone else's position making sense other than different reasons why they are all wrong together. Writing it all out, I supposed I need to control what I can and let go of the things that I can't, and remember that nothing is all that important anyways so I should relax. Anyways - I don't know if the meditation is intended to be a joke (untrue 365 days a year) or about giving yourself a break sometimes, but maybe I'll do both. Believe for the moment that I'm right, be open to being wrong, fuckin stop spending my chore time muttering explanations that would really make it clear to everyone else how big of a dumbass waste of time everything they want to do is.

[YGIFS 19,453]

Good insight.  Thanks for sharing, seriously.  One of the very few salient points of clarity I've had in life, both drunk and sober is that everybody thinks they're the smartest person in the room/group.  And I came to accept, no matter how smart I sound or have been told I am, I am just in the middle.  I am not the smartest or the dumbest guy in any room by a damn sight.  I hold some people back and I lift some people up.  I'm not a great team player and not because I'm selfish and want to be in charge, but it's because I don't like groups of people to begin with.  But after awhile, I eventually shed my bullshit and try to help. 

\

I need to remember that in sobriety.  I am not the worst guy in recovery, I am not the best guy in recovery, I hate meetings, but I need meetings.  I bring something to the table, but I need to shut up and listen.  I need to speak up and share but I need to just absorb and let people lean.  I am not smarter than a higher power but I can't just rely on that notion alone either.  I know it's an all-in endeavor, but this is a most delicate balancing act.  this makes interpersonal drama at work look like a fucking game of Candyland.  This is recognizing the worst in yourself while letting the best of you see daylight.  I ain't better than shit, but I am becoming more self-aware than most people.  See you fuckers on the Dark Side of the Moon.  

[BearSchlong 8,138]

* sarcastic daily meditations.

I’m in a business situation where I’m involved in a business deal that’s gonna net me a high 5 figure payout, or nothing. It’s my first time with this company, product, contract vehicle, comp plan, etc and It’s taking all my program to stay quiet, try to embrace an expansive mindset, and just let go and trust that things will work out the way God (a power other than me) will allow. What I AM grateful for is the tremendous upside available in all my dealings.

For the first time in my career, every transaction includes dozens of engineers, product managers, executive advisors - everyone with an agenda. And I can’t control the situation. One of my reps scheduled a client call that I thought was redundant and I was so mad that I wasn’t controlling the narrative that I almost slammed my cell phone down at the table, then watched things unfold and realized that the reason the call was needed was because I had an engineer dominate the previous call which was the antithesis of the other partner’s practice. So until I have evidence that my way is superior, I’m going to squash my ego and trust the current plan.

The ultimate test of emotional sobriety is trusting others.

[Reagan1k 3,026]

15 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

and just let go and trust that things will work out the way God (a power other than me) will allow

Gnashing my teeth at times, but working through this same mindset and trying to embrace it.  I've also got a work situation where biting my tongue is killing me - but pausing and doing nothing is being revealed as the right thing to do.  I've got a former partner who is still active "around" the business. 

From my perspective, he's a distraction, past his prime, and needs to turn loose of everything.  I can justify (in my mind) that he needs to be told to fully retire, quit trying to help, and completely disengage.  I can rationalize this by telling myself that I'm protecting our team, that he's wasting people's time, etc. and that it would be a service to everyone if I took action.

My sponsor has suggested (over and over) that I consider if I'm wrapping my "concern" for others around the real issue which is that he's not doing exactly what I want, when I want, and how I want.  He asked whether I'd considered if this could be exactly the way my higher power wants this transition to play out and if I might learn some things by just sitting in it and not taking any action....am I being given a gift of growing in my capacity for patience, kindness, tolerance, etc.  Am I treating what I consider to be his "mistakes" with the same attitude that I would extend to a sick friend?  Will I be better off when my time comes to step back, if I've watched and learned from this situation?

All of that makes me want to puke, because damn it, I'm right. 

However, for now - just for today, I'm praying for the willingness to do nothing and learn/grow through this.  Not "fixing" shit my way is hard.

 

[Celery Man 21,027]

what an incredible coincidence that three posters in this thread are struggling at work with people who aren't doing things correctly

[YGIFS 19,453]

I mean, obviously given our long-winded posting history on this thread---we're clearly the hardest workers in the office.  

Got nothing insightful today other than looking back at how tough week of Thanksgiving was being around family (both blood and in-laws) and not drinking was fucking rough.  But then went to two holiday parties last week with friends and it was a breeze.  Time just flew by, nobody said anything about me not drinking, and I actually had a handful of decent sober conversations with people I normally can't stand unless I'm shitfaced.  Was kinda cool to see it all balance out in the end.  Just sublimely weird how sporting events, open bars, hosted parties, etc. can be of very little temptation.  But other far more innocuous events are so much more tempting.  

[BearSchlong 8,138]

what an incredible coincidence that three posters in this thread are struggling at work with people who aren't doing things correctly

So one of the projects I mentioned was delayed not by our team but simply because the client’s cadence is slower than ours. While others see disaster, I see us building credibility for a much more robust and successful project implementation for 2Q23 or so. Short term small something vs. long term large everything. I’ve seen other reps almost hyperventilating trying to demand attention so they can

I got dramatically called out today by one of my senior peers not for anything I did or didn’t do but because my position, naturally, is point man on building a credible, honest, teaming relationship. My peer, who is responsible for crafting the technology plans for 30 accounts plus an entire state government, flat out told me “you get your engineers, get on a plane, and go sit in their conference room and listen. We must meet them not where we want them to be, but where they actually are, from an organizational technology standpoint. Go build alignment and credibility. Your role is to help us grow trust and currency.”

Old me would have said OK, gotten drunk, and either quit, fumbled the job, or found a way to fuck it up.

Sober me says time to approach this relationship with honesty, good-faith, and a genuine desire to be - like that big book says - helpful.

Old me would have been balls deep in my comp plan, figuring out how to maximize immediate financial gratification. I mean, fuck em, what’s the most I can get for me by January, the rest of the year be damned. Sober me accepts that the job is what it is, the financial rewards are latent results of being a responsible contributor, and that what I need to do is be courageous, honest, present, and quiet. That I can use my brain to be of maximum help and work as a partner. In that scenario, trust God, clean house, and help others means I probably end 2023 with double or triple the income if only I can do the footwork, set my ego aside, and rise above the sickening transparency of a selfish actor.

Then I get back into pages 60-63, am I the director or the actor, to page 99 of the 12 & 12, can I be the st Francis prayer in action?

By all accounts I should be dead, but for some reason God or a power other than me or by fate or for some other arbitrary reason I was placed, decades later, into this service position.

That’s it. My career is nothing more than my service position. I’m either making coffee and arranging chairs at a meeting, or flying all around the country and asking for understanding rather than demanding to be understood. How can I bring God into the global technology game?

This might be a little sick but I’m gonna be dead in 30 years, why don’t I stop putting limits on God and just let him be revealed? Enjoy the show, right?

(Cue the scene in Moneyball where Billy Beane (Brad Pitt) is driving down the highway listening to his awkward teen daughter play the her song “Enjoy the show.”)

Midnight ramblings of a midlife recovered alcoholic waiting for a product manager in Europe to wake up, check his email and Slack, and get me some pricing.

[hullabelew 3,724]

Truth.  I honestly have never laughed as much and as hard as I did while I was in treatment.  I had no idea what I was in for.  Part of me thought it would be like "One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest" mixed with a religious, Kumbaya-campfire-singing session.  I couldn't have been further from the truth.   

I have a buddy who right now who really needs to be in treatment but won't pull the trigger.  He convinced his doctor and some other treatment center dude into letting him try to medically detox at home and that went about as well as you would think.  I know he would have a blast and would have a much better chance at getting sober if he would just go.  I told him I would drive him up there  and that I would go back if my insurance would let me.  Just too proud/scared I guess.  

[YGIFS 19,453]

Holy shit, wife blew up at me (not in a good way) last night and most the day today about incredibly innocuous comments with her and the kids.  Talked with a sort of second degree sponsor of mine and he pretty much reminded me it was a proxy argument about shit I used to say supplanted on top of just harmless bullshit I said last 36 hours.  Did not see it coming.  Stewing on it all last night and this afternoon/evening.  Not part of the program.  Anyway, she's been very supportive.  But now I have this new fun challenge.  Now sober, she fucking hates me and I don't want to be anywhere fucking near her because she's drives me fucking insane.  I love my girls but she fucking sucks and is a constant fucking beatdown.  Okay, thanks for letting me vent.   Did not see this coming.  I want to be dad and get the fuck away from this fucking cunt.  

[YGIFS 19,453]

Okay.  Up at 5am.  Wanna avoid her and drink but obviously that’s not a good idea.  Got to get an early meeting today.  Holidays are gonna be a hoot.  Thanks for listening. 

[deadshank 24,653]

I’ve posted to this thread before.  I’m not an alcoholic nor a heavy drinker.  Heck, I hardly drink anymore.  
 

I check in this thread because I have more and more very close friends and relatives that have drinking problems or are out right alcoholics.  
 

Reading you brave ones lay out it out there is inspiring and I wish the best for all of you.   Your candid remarks help me talk to the guys close to me that are in recovery, those that know they have a problem and need to do something and those that are in complete denial and spiraling down. 
 

I’m amazed how many of my close ones are struggling.  God bless you all and thanks for being real and honest.  

[YGIFS 19,453]

Yeah, I don’t know if it’s the Volvo effect or what, but basically since Covid, I’ve realized how many people I know are outright alcoholic and how many folks I know who’ve quit. 
 

And then I learned, on top of that, that some people that are sober for many years didn’t just up and quit like they said. It was a struggle for many weeks, months, years.  They said they just stopped to be polite and not get into details.  But they share with me now how long if actually took them.  And that’s helpful stuff.  Some literally just woke up and never had another drop, some were in and out of rehab, most somewhere in the middle.  
 

 

[TwiceHorn 31,686]

11 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Holy shit, wife blew up at me (not in a good way) last night and most the day today about incredibly innocuous comments with her and the kids.  Talked with a sort of second degree sponsor of mine and he pretty much reminded me it was a proxy argument about shit I used to say supplanted on top of just harmless bullshit I said last 36 hours.  Did not see it coming.  Stewing on it all last night and this afternoon/evening.  Not part of the program.  Anyway, she's been very supportive.  But now I have this new fun challenge.  Now sober, she fucking hates me and I don't want to be anywhere fucking near her because she's drives me fucking insane.  I love my girls but she fucking sucks and is a constant fucking beatdown.  Okay, thanks for letting me vent.   Did not see this coming.  I want to be dad and get the fuck away from this fucking cunt.  

This may be an example of how alcoholism affects the family.  You are kind of a new you, obviously.  You are getting used to it and so is she.

When you isolated and drank (kinda reading between the lines here), you were actually quite easy for dear wifey to deal with (or not deal with, as it were).  Now you are sentient and present, or at least moreso, and likely harder, or at least different, to deal with.

So, I dunno, maybe cut her some slack, and yourself while you're at it.  Some relationships don't survive recovery.  Not sayin, just sayin.

[YGIFS 19,453]

Yeah, I've her plenty of slack.  And she with me.  It was more of a marriage communication thing than alcohol thing in terms of cause, IMHO.  Just one of those husband moments where you're like, "This?  That?  This is the hill you want to die on, when I've said so much worse shit over the past year, da fuh?"  I mean one of the things she was bitching at me about was yesterday, after doing dad volunteer duty at school in the morning, I made a funny face at my daughter that I guess embarrassed her (isn't that part of being a dad though).  I thought nothing of the 3-second incident.  Wife started in on me at assembly and continued until bedtime last night.  Fucking bizarre.  

My point was it was extremely tempting to tune her out completely and go get shitfaced by myself or an old drinking buddy.  Like I was staring at my phone to text somebody to meet up with me somewhere.  I didn't, thankfully.  But as you say, alcohol was a cause of issues with us.  Alcohol was certainly a comforting solution to some of her bullshit sometimes.  Now, I'm adrift as "The New Me" apparently and causing mental trauma to loved ones because I made a silly face in the cafeteria.  Heading to a meeting in person today, I need the solace.  So does the family probably.  And gonna skip this political holiday party thing tonight because one of the very, very few people that still tries to get me to drink and constantly fucking points out that I don't have a drink in my hand in public is co-hosting and I thought I could handle it but the last 36 hours have proven to me I probably shouldn't.  Even if I stay dry there, I'll come home annoyed and pissy and probably say something shitty again.