I'm An Alcoholic

[Macanudo 13080]

I'm only 10 months in but looking back, I know I was an irritable asshole for the first couple of weeks/months.    It took a while to adjust to whatever my normal was and would be.   I was very on edge a lot of the time but that has really faded.  

I still get irritated at stuff now but it's the kind of thing I think most of us would consider "normal" and it's not often.   Dealing with teenagers and going through a job change/search are my stresssors and I know neither of those are in any way worth drinking for.

[Homercles 10206]

I went through that, proxy wars over past alcohol transgressions.  In fact a vicious cycle of my problem drinking was driven by how my wife jumped on my case over little things…she was on edge due to my transgressions, which lead her to a short fuse, which lead to picking fights over the gotdamn laundry I spent an hour on, which lead to me withdrawing in a bottle because I didn’t feel appreciated…it just went on like that.  
 

Although not an alcoholic (if my success moderating past few years is an indication), I can sympathize.  It’s such a personal triumph to quit/fix the problem, you’re feeling good and (in my experience) you can tell the mental gymnastics over ‘Will I / Won’t I Tonight’ are over…but your partner hasn’t immediately followed along with you and things haven’t really changed at the same pace you have. 
 

In my case it just took time to earn her trust back…and therapy to realize that I can only control myself, and not hitch my mental wagon to her mental state.  I still felt down when I was getting snapped at for seemingly minor transgressions, but I tried hard not to let it ruin my whole day like before wherein I’d double down with ‘well fine, if you’re gonna treat me rudely then I’ll do what I want…which is drink and watch Aliens by myself.’  I’ve always been a giver and people pleaser, so it was hard.  

But things definitely improved over time, and I got my girl back…which started a positive cycle from the ashes of the negative one we’d been in.  As noted above it’s certainly possible that your spouse won’t ever ‘follow’ this refurbished you, but all you can control is your choices, stay focused on how you react, and hope for the best.  

[Kennythetiger 9496]

Huge problem for me sobering-up was my mindset of “I changed for the better- why aren’t/can’t you?”  Especially if I was the one who decided that the other person needed to change, or if I decided what they needed to change. 
This was infinitely harder than refraining from booze, and it’s something on which I still have to work very hard. But it gets easier. 

[Tom 2960]

First time caller, long time listener.

What would the AA community's thoughts be on someone who's been sober for almost 2 years starting AA, getting a sponsor, and working the steps?  I've been wanting to try AA for a long time, but I have this serious hang up that nobody there will take me seriously because I already have a lot of sober time.  I also feel like I may be wasting others' time over people who really need help now.

For background, I'm an alcoholic.  I struggled off and on with quitting throughout my late 20's and 30's.  I went to rehab years ago but didn't stay sober.  Relapsed within two weeks of getting out and had another 3+ years of hell.  Got to a point after COVID where my health was really starting to take a turn for the worse from drinking so much.  I was diagnosed with diabetes, blood work was bad in just about every way from cholesterol, triglycerides, ALT/AST, etc.  I had liver pains all the time.  I had the realization that I was probably not going to live many more years if I kept on drinking, and I didn't like what my life had to show for it from drinking it away.

After a thousand starts, something just clicked at the right time, and I got sober through sheer white knuckling. I meant to go to AA seriously at some point, but I just kept pushing through on my own.  I think because a lot of good things happened to me in early sobriety from the complete reversal of my diabetes, my health returning, losing a ton of weight, and social/life experiences improving that the highs just sort of carried me through the early months.  I had a ton of close calls and cravings that peaked around the 10th month mark where I actually bought booze for the first time before finally pouring it down the sink without ever actually taking a sip. From that point on, for some reason, I've been in a much better state of mind and don't really get any serious cravings or anxiety anymore.  I feel like I've worked on my inner self a lot, am more confident, and don't really think about drinking all that much except in passing.  I'll even go on dates and hang out with friends in bars and there's not much more than passing thoughts about drinking that I'm easily able to push away with very little effort. 

So why do I want to go to AA now?  I've sort of hit a wall on my personal mental and spiritual growth, and I wanted to feel the spiritual awaking that's described in the 12 steps and see if helps me grow even further.  I've also just sort of always admired the sober AA community and camaraderie from a distance.  Would AA and the 12 steps even do anything more for me at this point at 20 months sober or would I be wasting everyone's time?  

[YGIFS 19453]

I have probably 50.1% in common with that you just posted.  But I'll let the more seasoned folks on here chime in before I offer up any bullshit.  But thanks for posting that, i hear ya, and I get it.  God bless.  

[DallasHorn26 586]

No one is going to shun you for going. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. A lot of us have had periods of time where we could stay sober, just some longer than others. If you’re feeling anxious or dare I say restless, irritable or discontent, then relief may come through the program. There is a guy in my home group now that is just starting the steps who celebrated his two year birthday this week.

You’ll find a home in AA just go to some meetings and I’m certain you’ll find some one to relate too. If you’re serious about the growth and working the steps, then I don’t see it as wasting anyones time. There is always room for one more in our herd.

[YGIFS 19453]

^

what that person said.  Never a waste of anyone's time.  Certainly ebbs and flows between highest/best/most valuable use of time, but never a waste . Maybe it's just a smillr, nod, or pat on the back that makes somebody else's week during a meeting.  Other times, it's the absolutely one and only thing that saves some folks from plunging off into the abyss.  Usually somewhere in between.  some of them I leave thinking "Meh" and others I leave thinking "holy shit, I needed that."  Most of 'em..."glad I participated and listened and probably slightly better off for it...onward and upward."  I have thought a great many things after meetings and never did it even tilt towards, "Wasting people's time."  

[Kennythetiger 9496]

58 minutes ago, Tom said:

First time caller, long time listener.

What would the AA community's thoughts be on someone who's been sober for almost 2 years starting AA, getting a sponsor, and working the steps?  I've been wanting to try AA for a long time, but I have this serious hang up that nobody there will take me seriously because I already have a lot of sober time.  I also feel like I may be wasting others' time over people who really need help now.

For background, I'm an alcoholic.  I struggled off and on with quitting throughout my late 20's and 30's.  I went to rehab years ago but didn't stay sober.  Relapsed within two weeks of getting out and had another 3+ years of hell.  Got to a point after COVID where my health was really starting to take a turn for the worse from drinking so much.  I was diagnosed with diabetes, blood work was bad in just about every way from cholesterol, triglycerides, ALT/AST, etc.  I had liver pains all the time.  I had the realization that I was probably not going to live many more years if I kept on drinking, and I didn't like what my life had to show for it from drinking it away.

After a thousand starts, something just clicked at the right time, and I got sober through sheer white knuckling. I meant to go to AA seriously at some point, but I just kept pushing through on my own.  I think because a lot of good things happened to me in early sobriety from the complete reversal of my diabetes, my health returning, losing a ton of weight, and social/life experiences improving that the highs just sort of carried me through the early months.  I had a ton of close calls and cravings that peaked around the 10th month mark where I actually bought booze for the first time before finally pouring it down the sink without ever actually taking a sip. From that point on, for some reason, I've been in a much better state of mind and don't really get any serious cravings or anxiety anymore.  I feel like I've worked on my inner self a lot, am more confident, and don't really think about drinking all that much except in passing.  I'll even go on dates and hang out with friends in bars and there's not much more than passing thoughts about drinking that I'm easily able to push away with very little effort. 

So why do I want to go to AA now?  I've sort of hit a wall on my personal mental and spiritual growth, and I wanted to feel the spiritual awaking that's described in the 12 steps and see if helps me grow even further.  I've also just sort of always admired the sober AA community and camaraderie from a distance.  Would AA and the 12 steps even do anything more for me at this point at 20 months sober or would I be wasting everyone's time?  

I had been sober for a few weeks before I went. I didn’t even want to drink, but I felt like I was going to have a nervous breakdown very quickly.  I knew from some of the drunks on here that there was a program through AA that they really liked. So I went. Our meetings are now hosted in my business office. Everyone else kicked us out during Covid. 

[YGIFS 19453]

5 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

I had been sober for a few weeks before I went. I didn’t even want to drink, but I felt like I was going to have a nervous breakdown very quickly.  I knew from some of the drunks on here that there was a program through AA that they really liked. So I went. Our meetings are now hosted in my business office. Everyone else kicked us out during Covid. 

Because you kept touching yourself there?  

[Kennythetiger 9496]

On 10/31/2022 at 9:47 AM, hullabelew said:

John Clark was one of my counselors at treatment in Nashville.  Dude has an amazing story and does such a great job with that podcast. I'm so happy for him.  Another good one is Cuttin' Grass by Joe Singer.  COMPLETELY different styles.  Joe is just a dude learning how to live sober while John's is more of a closing argument style.   But both are fantastic and vital parts of my recovery.  

 

 

@Tom I bumped this in case you’re interested in podcasts. John Clark’s start clear down at the bottom of his page. They’re around half an hour long, and I listen to them when I am distraction-free. 
The Cuttin Grass ones are much shorter and are good during a lunch break or a coffee break. They’re much lighter in tone than the Forest Fires ones. 
I love them both. 

[BearSchlong 8136]

Tom,

11:30 every Friday for the last 30 years, there has been a standing AA luncheon at the local Luby’s (still open and thriving). Usually, 6-10 people show up.

One day years ago, this guy showed up who had been attending meetings other than my usual one and introduced himself, and we got to talking. He had been sober for seven years, initially in AA, then by himself. He was going crazy but didn’t want to drink, so he jumped back in, and I’m happy to say he’s one of my closest friends today.

He said he tried to find happiness in every possible way without enlarging his spiritual life, buying homes, trucks, boats, toys, traveling, slaying pussy, and being a workaholic. But he was missing recovery and the fellowship, and now he throws himself into service work. I love the guy.

Your situation is prevalent.

Similarly, we get many people who were suffering lengthy enforced sobriety via incarceration who join AA as a requirement or recommendation from the parole or probation offices. They were alcoholic but not desperate enough for pruno. Prison sober time counts.

Guys, when we get sober, we are like exposed wiring - zero insulation. Raw nerves that were previously anesthetized. Finding a higher power installs a circuit breaker, so we don’t get fried.

During my first six months sober, I would tell people that I was afraid of what would happen if the pressure built and I needed a release - paradoxically, working the steps provided a plan for eluding the pressure.

YGIFS, let her whirl. Buy her flowers for no reason. Try to see her as one of God’s children. Read the prayer of St. Francis. Read page 67 of the BBOAA. And page 417. And page 90 of the 12 & 12.

I’m nuts, and the only reason I have a tolerable marriage is because we BOTH have good sponsors. If you recall, she was Al Anon just prior to when we met and fell into lust.

Of course, if she is a psychopath (personality disorder) like mine and WULAW’s first wives, you must run to the courthouse.

[hullabelew 3724]

@Tom  Two of the guys I most respect and rely on for advice did EXACTLY what you are talking about.  One was 3 years and the other at 5.  Both described how they weren't drinking but we anywhere from not happy to miserable and they didn't know why.   No one in any meeting I've ever been in would shun you.  Best of luck.  

[hullabelew 3724]

Was in Nashville over the weekend and stopped in to a random meeting and ran in to buddy from my treatment center.  He told the following story.

A guy came on the same day as him.  Mid 50s.  In a wheelchair.  All alcohol induced.  In less week he was walking with a walker, then with a cane.  At 3 weeks, he rode the 75 ft  swing and balanced with another guy on a near impossible rope course.  You have to balance yourself with another guy across a span of several feet.  You each have all of your weight on the other person while the rope is moving all over the place.  And he did it.  Left treatment.   Did well for 60 days.  Relapsed.   Found him dead 2 days later.  Drank himself to death in 3 fucking days.  

All of that progress in 28 days.....said he had never felt that good....also said, "if I drink again, even one....I will die".   

This shit is serious boys and girls.  

[Tom 2960]

Appreciate all the great advice y'all always give.  I think I will try to dip my toes back into meetings.  If anyone has any good group suggestions they recommend in the Fort Worth area, feel free to let me know. 

Edited December 13, 2022 by Tom

[TwiceHorn 31676]

36 minutes ago, Tom said:

Appreciate all the great advice y'all always give.  I think I will try to dip my toes back into meetings.  If anyone has any good group suggestions they recommend in the Fort Worth area, feel free to let me know. 

@pch is your huckleberry for Panther City.  His home group and a good one is Harbor Club https://harborclubfw.org/

[pch 1261]

6 hours ago, Tom said:

Appreciate all the great advice y'all always give.  I think I will try to dip my toes back into meetings.  If anyone has any good group suggestions they recommend in the Fort Worth area, feel free to let me know. 

Sent you a message. Hope to hear from you.

[Macanudo 13080]

On 12/10/2022 at 10:35 AM, Homercles said:

I went through that, proxy wars over past alcohol transgressions.  In fact a vicious cycle of my problem drinking was driven by how my wife jumped on my case over little things…she was on edge due to my transgressions, which lead her to a short fuse, which lead to picking fights over the gotdamn laundry I spent an hour on, which lead to me withdrawing in a bottle because I didn’t feel appreciated…it just went on like that.  
 

Although not an alcoholic (if my success moderating past few years is an indication), I can sympathize.  It’s such a personal triumph to quit/fix the problem, you’re feeling good and (in my experience) you can tell the mental gymnastics over ‘Will I / Won’t I Tonight’ are over…but your partner hasn’t immediately followed along with you and things haven’t really changed at the same pace you have. 
 

In my case it just took time to earn her trust back…and therapy to realize that I can only control myself, and not hitch my mental wagon to her mental state.  I still felt down when I was getting snapped at for seemingly minor transgressions, but I tried hard not to let it ruin my whole day like before wherein I’d double down with ‘well fine, if you’re gonna treat me rudely then I’ll do what I want…which is drink and watch Aliens by myself.’  I’ve always been a giver and people pleaser, so it was hard.  

But things definitely improved over time, and I got my girl back…which started a positive cycle from the ashes of the negative one we’d been in.  As noted above it’s certainly possible that your spouse won’t ever ‘follow’ this refurbished you, but all you can control is your choices, stay focused on how you react, and hope for the best.  

It's kind of funny now to see be in a situation where others are going at each other and I'm the one who is trying to calm it down.    Having teenagers in the house means there are lot of emotions.   And way more often than not now, I'm not the one who had anything to do with the rise in emotions.    

It's really nice not being in an alcohol induced haze but instead seeing things much more clearly.   The proxy war doesn't really come up for me and since everyone else seems to be yelling at each other and not me I don't think it will for the most part. 

Tranquility now!

[BearSchlong 8136]

I’m envious of pch’s group, can’t wait to go back next time I’m in the region. Awesome facility, and his sponsee I talked to seemed like he was doing a good job of keeping pch sober



Hint: it simple, not easy.

[Reagan1k 3026]

19 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

I’m envious of pch’s group, can’t wait to go back next time I’m in the region. Awesome facility, and his sponsee I talked to seemed like he was doing a good job of keeping pch sober



Hint: it simple, not easy.

Slowly raises hand- sheepishly admitting that this is I.

It's only 1st down and I'm worrying about the 3rd down play call and whether the punt will be blocked on 4th down.

Holy hell - how many times does it have to be demonstrated that if I focus on the next play only, things will work out a lot more smoothly than if I "complicate the shit out of everything"

It's my alcoholic nature.  I wish I had a dollar for every time I'd been bankrupt / living in a ditch in my mind.

That's why I need to always be living in the steps and the participating in the fellowship....like a bowler who needs bumpers to keep me out of the mental gutter.

[Macanudo 13080]

2 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

 

It's only 1st down and I'm worrying about the 3rd down play call and whether the punt will be blocked on 4th down.

 

What a great way to put it.   I love the football analogy.   Overthinking can be a real killer.   

There's nothing wrong with planning and preparing.   1st down an the 1st drive of the day from your own 32?    Different set of circumstance than 1st down on your own 7, down by 8 with 90 seconds and 1 timeout.   Each situation has it's own plan.  

Knowing what you would call on 3rd and 2 versus 3rd and 8 is important.   But what happens on 1st down and then 2nd down will determine whether 3rd down even happens.   Can't worry about this on 1st down.   Worry about 3rd down when it happens.   But preparation and planning make that easier.  

I am a big proponent of understanding the "why".   Why did somethung happen?   I might not be able to fix it but understanding the situation allows for preparation and planning going forward.    And as an alcoholic, it also allows me to understand things like triggers.   Why do I want to drink?   What can I do to avoid those triggers or eliminate them?    I know I can't avoid or eliminate them all.   But I can prepare and plan.  

Edited December 14, 2022 by Macanudo

[BearSchlong 8136]

Wait, you mean you guys don't just punt on 1st down?

I really am sick.

lol.

[Reagan1k 3026]

On 12/14/2022 at 10:56 AM, Macanudo said:

What a great way to put it.   I love the football analogy.   Overthinking can be a real killer. 

Yeah - My sponsor is a big football guy, and uses a lot of analogies from the game.

"Just block and tackle" is his favorite when I'm getting a bit squirrely.   

[Kennythetiger 9496]

3 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Yeah - My sponsor is a big football guy, and uses a lot of analogies from the game.

"Just block and tackle" is his favorite when I'm getting a bit squirrely.   

What does a hoist have to do with any of this??!  

[MaybeACoordinator 8350]

On 12/12/2022 at 10:23 AM, hullabelew said:

Was in Nashville over the weekend and stopped in to a random meeting and ran in to buddy from my treatment center.  He told the following story.

A guy came on the same day as him.  Mid 50s.  In a wheelchair.  All alcohol induced.  In less week he was walking with a walker, then with a cane.  At 3 weeks, he rode the 75 ft  swing and balanced with another guy on a near impossible rope course.  You have to balance yourself with another guy across a span of several feet.  You each have all of your weight on the other person while the rope is moving all over the place.  And he did it.  Left treatment.   Did well for 60 days.  Relapsed.   Found him dead 2 days later.  Drank himself to death in 3 fucking days.  

All of that progress in 28 days.....said he had never felt that good....also said, "if I drink again, even one....I will die".   

This shit is serious boys and girls.  

So this friend of a great many friends of mine (and a social media buddy of mine) died a couple of weeks ago. He lived in Nashville and was universally beloved of all the cool kids in the music scene up there -- the old legends and the youngsters who bring real shit to the table, and not the "beer n'trucks on that old dirt road by the river where there are babes in cutoff britches" douchebags you hear on the radio, but people like Johnny Fucking Cash, who was on the record as admiring this dude's writing (he was a music critic and historian) and his musicianship -- he doubled as a singer-songwriter. When he died, he had maybe the coolest job in Nashville. 

He was so accomplished I kinda thought he was older than he was, because he had packed a hell of a lot in 52 years. And because that's my age too, and we kinda-sorta work in the same field, his career made me feel a bit inadequate. 

Something was a bit off in all the Internet chatter about his death. All anyone would openly say was that he had fallen down (apparently at his home) and suffered what proved to be a fatal head injury.

DMs were sent to those who asked for elaboration -- I could tell because people would type "check your DMs" which has always seemed silly to me but I digress. Upshot was, there was more to the story, and that more was not for public consumption. If you read dozens of tributes, like I did, every now and then somebody would make mention of unspecified "demons," but those were very rare.

\And I saw in his obit that his wife had recently left him. They had been together for 33 years. It seemed very odd to be splitting up then, especially given they had a kid at home still. 

I surmised that this fall had a proximate cause unrelated to any physical issue, and it freaked me out to the point where I called a sober buddy, who confirmed that this man had been to rehab three times in the last year and evidently the third time had not proven a charm...And so went the life of one of Music City's most beloved and respected public figures, his death cloaked in secrecy borne of shame, I guess.

I understand the secrecy but I hate that the need for it exists. If ever there was a case of "If it could happen to XXX, it could happen to anybody," this would be it. Instead we are just left to whisper in the margins....there's no greater good to be had from this senseless death. 

It's such a gray area. By and large society accepts the addiction-as-disease model, but spouses leave drunken spouses with little or no guilt in a way they can't leave somebody hit with dementia or the big C because society still condones leaving an addict, and even sobering up can't change that. Once you've introduced addiction to the marriage, the stank remains within and without, even post-sobriety. 

And I guess because everybody loved this Nashville guy so much, nobody wants to tarnish his memory with the ugly truth of his final years, even though he apparently tried his best to fight back against his spiritual malady.

I dunno. Like vodka-breath, I think the facts surrounding his death will be apparent to all those (like us) with eyes to see

[BearSchlong 8136]

What does a hoist have to do with any of this??!  

Leverage your higher power!

[BearSchlong 8136]

@MaybeACoordinator I read the obit, too; I have a friend he used to cover way back in the day.  Hate to hear it.  Those demons can trample many people who move to Nashville.  In 2022 traveled extensively, and while on airplanes or in rental cars would go down musical wormholes, and as a recovered alcoholic, it sometimes became unbearable, simply because country music is pretty much about either having feelings or attempting to escape them.

IMO the family wants solace and closure, and since they can't understand the disease, they cling to their narrative.  At one funeral for a 41 yr old, I heard, "His heart just gave out; I guess the good lord needed him in heaven," when he took too many Xanax and didn't wake up.  I've seen that scenario or a variation thereof about a dozen times since I put the plug in the jug.

 

Edit: Unrelated, but I discovered this site - https://www.farcethemusic.com/ and it's funny.

Edited December 16, 2022 by BearSchlong

[BearSchlong 8136]

Topical.

[YGIFS 19453]

Gotta get back into the swing of things with regard to meetings/reading/etc this holiday season.  But if anybody in Austin wants to meet/chat/post, lemme know.  Thanksgiving week was tough but got through it, and first several days of holiday parties and school break were okay (not great, but okay), but shit's getting tough.  Nobody needs my shit on top of theirs but am trying to be proactive and get some best practices from the experts.  Not that there ever were any.  Anyway, white knuckling again and thank y'all for your support.  

[TwiceHorn 31676]

On 12/16/2022 at 12:38 PM, MaybeACoordinator said:

spouses leave drunken spouses with little or no guilt in a way they can't leave somebody hit with dementia or the big C because society still condones leaving an addict,

Partially true and partially false.  Certainly, society at large seems to credit addiction as a get-out-of-jail-free card when it comes to the commitment of marriage, in contrast to other diseases.

But a couple of things are different about "addiction marriages" and other relationships for that matter.  From the disease perspective, for the recalcitrant addict, it's like a cancer victim that won't do anything to help themselves.  From other perspectives, the addict's addiction is "voluntarily" harming spouses and others.  Finally, "separating" from the addict is often what is required for the addict to finally get/accept the help they need.

[Reagan1k 3026]

10 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Partially true and partially false.  Certainly, society at large seems to credit addiction as a get-out-of-jail-free card when it comes to the commitment of marriage, in contrast to other diseases.

But a couple of things are different about "addiction marriages" and other relationships for that matter.  From the disease perspective, for the recalcitrant addict, it's like a cancer victim that won't do anything to help themselves.  From other perspectives, the addict's addiction is "voluntarily" harming spouses and others.  Finally, "separating" from the addict is often what is required for the addict to finally get/accept the help they need.

Yeah - I'm not sure I agree with the "little or no guilt" part of the state in reference.  Unlike cancer or dementia, alcoholism spreads from the infected host to all those it touches.  It is a family disease and affects even those who do not take a the drink.  I won't argue with the differences in how they are treated by society (in reference to separating from the afflicted) but in most cases, there is plenty of guilt and heartache as a direct result.  And to your point, separating is many times the most compassionate thing that the family can do. 

[TwiceHorn 31676]

10 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Yeah - I'm not sure I agree with the "little or no guilt" part of the state in reference.  Unlike cancer or dementia, alcoholism spreads from the infected host to all those it touches.  It is a family disease and affects even those who do not take a the drink.  I won't argue with the differences in how they are treated by society (in reference to separating from the afflicted) but in most cases, there is plenty of guilt and heartache as a direct result.  And to your point, separating is many times the most compassionate thing that the family can do. 

I was going to add in that part too.  But, I think we're coming to understand that cancer and dementia and other terminal or debilitating diseases can wreak their own psychological havoc among families, as well.

Even as a recovering alky, with full sympathy and empathy for the "patient," I still find that to be of a different character.  There remains a "voluntary" aspect to addiction that doesn't have a parallel in most other diseases or conditions.  The addict has nearly zero choice in becoming an addict, and it is difficult beyond most people's imagining to enter and succeed at recovery, but it still remains a choice that tends not to be present in other diseases.

And, I'm not sure the crustiest "love em from a distance" Al-Anon is guilt free over that decision.  Certainly, society doesn't tend to impose much guilt on them, but there wouldn't be an Al-Anon if it was an easy decision.

Edited December 22, 2022 by TwiceHorn

[Reagan1k 3026]

11 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Gotta get back into the swing of things with regard to meetings/reading/etc this holiday season.  But if anybody in Austin wants to meet/chat/post, lemme know.  Thanksgiving week was tough but got through it, and first several days of holiday parties and school break were okay (not great, but okay), but shit's getting tough.  Nobody needs my shit on top of theirs but am trying to be proactive and get some best practices from the experts.  Not that there ever were any.  Anyway, white knuckling again and thank y'all for your support.  

I don't know much, but I do know that actively being of service to another person or people is the only thing that brings relief to me when I am in self.  

The "me, me, me" swirling in my head only quiets when I focus my actions on "you, you, you".  Action is the key.  How I "feel" is directly impacted by what I "do", even if it against every fiber of my self will.  That lessens the grip in my fist that causes the white knuckles.

I personally can't think my way into peace of mind, I have to take action in the program to get re-centered.

 

 

[TwiceHorn 31676]

3 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

I personally can't think my way into peace of mind, I have to take action in the program to get re-centered.

I heard something on NPR unrelated to alcoholism, I think it was on depression and anxiety, but it pointed out that it seems that people are much more likely to be able to act their way into a way of thinking than to think their way into a way of acting.

That is something I learned in AA 25 years ago that is becoming pretty mainstream psychology.

I continue to be astonished at how the program and the Big Book are just a masterwork of practical psychology conceived and written nearly a century ago.

[Reagan1k 3026]

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I was going to add in that part too.  But, I think we're coming to understand that cancer and dementia and other terminal or debilitating diseases can wreak their own psychological havoc among families, as well.

100% - As someone who has seen / is living both sides - I wreaked havoc (and sometimes can continue to, albeit sober) as an active alcoholic.  I am also living through dealing with loved ones who have terminal and debilitating diseases.  Watching that play out for myself, the afflicted, and other family members is like watching a wreck in slow motion.

There are differences - some explicit and some nuanced - but the fact of the matter is as you said, Al-Anon and Alzheimers/dementia support groups (for example) weren't created in a vacuum without demand!

[BearSchlong 8136]

Gotta get back into the swing of things with regard to meetings/reading/etc this holiday season.  But if anybody in Austin wants to meet/chat/post, lemme know.  Thanksgiving week was tough but got through it, and first several days of holiday parties and school break were okay (not great, but okay), but shit's getting tough.  Nobody needs my shit on top of theirs but am trying to be proactive and get some best practices from the experts.  Not that there ever were any.  Anyway, white knuckling again and thank y'all for your support.  

This is the answer to your post on the divorce thread.

Others have said therapy, but as you’ve probably guessed my recommendation is going to be to find a hard assed sponsor who will see through your pride and ego and help you make a thorough effort through the 12 steps. Think of it as a cleanse.

It will give you newfound clarity on the rest of your relationships, and you’ll be able to make decisions with confidence.

It’s not your job to make your wife happy. Sure, you have to handle your side of the street but that’s the limit.

Not knowing you IRL, and just by reading your posts it is my (possibly incorrect) opinion that you suffer from self-pity and are in a profoundly codependent marriage.

I had the luxury of divorcing my completely psychotic emotional black hole of a wife and when the steps and AA prepared me for another go at a relationship the new priorities were discussed. 1) sobriety and serenity and staying spirituallly fit. Everything in my life flows from this well. 2) my children - do no damage, make maximum efforts, and give them a ton of space and grace. 3) my marriage - I’ll post my very custom non traditional vows but let’s just say that we promised to accept each other “as-is” even through change, to give each other space, to show daily affection and tenderness, and all the other things that our first marriages lack.

Like I said, I had that luxury.

So last night my 25 year old son and I were on a road trip and he turned to me and said “thanks for continuing to make the effort even when I was being gaslighted into hating you when I was 12.”

We see eye to eye, because he also had to end his relationship with his mother purely for self-preservation.

Think 10 years down the road one day at a time, no matter how much right now hurts. Ok

[YGIFS 19453]

everything you said is completely spot-on except the "profoundly codependent marriage" part.  I crave your insight, but that's the only part you get wrong.  And as you said, it's only because you don't know me/us in real life.  But the rest of your diagnosis of me is totally accurate.  The saddest part of my life right now is even sober, she fucking hates me.  I just didn't see it until now.  She loves me because our past and her church tells her to.  I gotta get to a meeting today.  I really thought white knuckling sobriety would be the hardest part.  It's just a piece of a fucked up puzzle with no corners.  

[BearSchlong 8136]

This is going to sound a little harsh, but hear me out - why do you care if she hates you?

Do you ever feel like you’re trying to live up to her expectations? If so, do you feel like you’re failing?

[YGIFS 19453]

Yes.  Yes.  And yes.  

[BearSchlong 8136]

Expectations are premeditated resentments.

You’re not responsible for hers.

A parable - one Tuesday, after I was 5 years sober and divorced, my then ex wife yelled at me for 2 hours because I would not do what she wanted. She cried, screamed, cajoled, insulted, belittled, and even said that my sobriety in AA was an escape from the reality of life and that she wished with all her might that I would do her a favor and go get drunk and die.

The 2nd hour of that phone call was like a sunrise, a world coming into focus, when the darkness and shadows lifted and revealed the stark truth that trying to meet her expectations and specifications wasn’t possible. Anger and frustration yielded to laughter when I realized how preposterous it was for me to attempt such an impossible feat. What had once been a formidable opponent morphed into a caricature.

Some people are incapable of being happy and content. And the only perception that matters is mine. Death is inevitable, suffering is voluntary.

Yesterday was wonderful. I spent the morning at the gun range being coached by my son, whom our government pays to be an expert in that venue. And the afternoon playing darts and listening to country music in the garage with my daughter, who proclaimed it to be in her “top 10 list of dad memories.” And then we watched Zoolander as a family and laughed and laughed.

Spiritual progress, not perfection.

[BearSchlong 8136]

Oooh, good one.

[YGIFS 19453]

what the hell does that even mean, Wang?  

[Dewey 3314]

I don't want to drink (5 years sober Jan 9), but some peace would be nice, it's why I'm such a homebody, but it is the season, I have to get out. I've been driving a lot the past two weeks, working hard and now I drove an hour to my mom's place. She has a new dog that won't stop barking at me, now mom wants me to drive her to HEB, then home Depot and some other place. My life has been good, but damn if I don't want to be around people right now, especially on the road. Been leaving my house at 6am, get home around 530, shower, eat, walk my dog, sleep. Brother even asked me to house sit after Christmas, that was a hard no, pay someone. I need 1 week just to chill, probably less than that and then I'm packing my house and moving back to El Paso to start a job with another killer deadline. Everybody is in such a fucking race, God I hate this time a year. 

I feel better, thanks

[Kennythetiger 9496]

4 minutes ago, Dewey said:

I don't want to drink (5 years sober Jan 9), but some peace would be nice, it's why I'm such a homebody, but it is the season, I have to get out. I've been driving a lot the past two weeks, working hard and now I drove an hour to my mom's place. She has a new dog that won't stop barking at me, now mom wants me to drive her to HEB, then home Depot and some other place. My life has been good, but damn if I don't want to be around people right now, especially on the road. Been leaving my house at 6am, get home around 530, shower, eat, walk my dog, sleep. Brother even asked me to house sit after Christmas, that was a hard no, pay someone. I need 1 week just to chill, probably less than that and then I'm packing my house and moving back to El Paso to start a job with another killer deadline. Everybody is in such a fucking race, God I hate this time a year. 

I feel better, thanks

 

[Celery Man 21026]

On 12/23/2022 at 10:22 AM, BearSchlong said:

Oooh, good one.

 

[BottleRocket 647]

12/26/2016 - 6 years today. Life is wonderful. Much thanks to this thread here and TOS. Ya’ll are awesome. Keep on keeping on one day at a time!

[Dewey 3314]

Here's to continued improvement, to acceptance of what we can't change, courage to change what we can, and the wisdom to know the difference. 

[YGIFS 19453]

Happy New Year, fuckers !!!

[Walser 1110]

Newly-minted alcoholic checking in. Always been a prolific drinker, but wrenched my back after Thanksgiving that turned it up to 11. Pain just laughed at the meds from the back specialist. So holiday heavy drinking followed by the decision to just stop on Christmas landed me in the hospital for three days with heavy withdrawl symptoms. Fortunately I responded well to treatment.

I am very thankful for the excellent staff and the almost smothering of family support with whom I was totally transparent with about my condition. But I am most thankful that the doc signed me out in time to watch the New Years Eve bowl games. The TV in my room was laughably small. (bad joke)

My social worker, father (MD) who lost a stepson to this, and others are helping me devise a plan to move forward. Not gonna waste any time getting my checklist worked. In-patient care is on the table.

I have no desire for a drink right now, but sounds like will change at some point.

I will be starting at the beginning of this thread to read your experiences. I also welcome any suggestions. 2023...starting now!

Edited January 1, 2023 by Walser

[Kennythetiger 9496]

7 hours ago, Dewey said:

Here's to continued improvement, to acceptance of what we can't change, courage to change what we can, and the wisdom to know the difference. 

That’s today’s “Daily Stoic” reading. 

[Kennythetiger 9496]

32 minutes ago, Walser said:

Newly-minted alcoholic checking in. Always been a prolific drinker, but wrenched my back after Thanksgiving that turned it up to 11. Pain just laughed at the meds from the back specialist. So holiday heavy drinking followed by the decision to just stop on Christmas landed me in the hospital for three days with heavy withdrawl symptoms. Fortunately I responded well to treatment.

I am very thankful for the excellent staff and the almost smothering of family support with whom I was totally transparent with about my condition. But I am most thankful that the doc signed me out in time to watch the New Years Eve bowl games. The TV in my room was laughably small. (bad joke)

My social worker, father (MD) who lost a stepson to this, and others are helping me devise a plan to move forward. Not gonna waste any time getting my checklist worked. In-patient care is on the table.

I have no desire for a drink right now, but sounds like will change at some point.

I will be starting at the beginning of this thread to read your experiences. I also welcome any suggestions. 2023...starting now!

Glad you’re here. My only suggestion is that once you’re done with this thread, read the mental health thread, and after that one, read the divorce thread, even if you’re single. 
There are some jaded folks in there, but there are also little bits of positive advice on bettering our relationships with others.