I'm An Alcoholic

[BearSchlong 8,114]

thank you for honesty.    
But yeah, it's a weird row to hoe.  The organs are resilient.  The long toll is real.  The habit is damaging.  The quitting is hard.  What really fucks with me is the mental aspect, the muscle memory if that makes sense.  Goofy as all fuck.  

Reading your posts is like looking into a mirror. You’re one of my favorite people here.

Ultimately, I had to lose (almost) everything in the rebirth. Completely deconstructed and reassembled just a little bit better.

[BearSchlong 8,114]

Yeah, that sucks.  It was touched up upthread, but addiction turns out to be quite the family disease and can have pretty dire effects on spouses and children.   So, it's not a "victimless" disorder.
But, as our understanding of psychology grows, I think we're learning that all kinds of dread diseases can have devastating effects on the family, beyond just grief at death or dying.

Took on a new sponsee yesterday.

Yesterday morning I attended the funeral of a friend’s 96-year-old dad.

It was one of those funerals to which we should all aspire. Outstanding father, civic leader, businessman, philanthropist, poet, and philosopher. An overall success by most measures. The only blemish was that he and his late wife had been outstanding parents of the year and distinguished alumni at TAMU (come on, the Aggy war hymn as your funeral procession?)

Anyway, as I was telling my new sponsee, one of my fears was I didn’t want my kids to remember me as a tragedy. “Dear old dad, such a troubled soul died drunk in a roadside ditch. So sad.” I was tired of being burdensome.

That’s why my living amends are so necessary. Ego? Sure. Unhealthy? Not if my motivations are genuine. My dad might have been a no-good, dirty home-wrecking drunk for a while, but he made up for it in the 29 years he was sober and working a program. I’m optimistic that my life will follow a similar path.

It’s the least I can do for my wife, her family, my kids and their families, and the rest of my friends and loved ones. Stop doing harm.

[YGIFS 19,452]

1 hour ago, BearSchlong said:

Reading your posts is like looking into a mirror. You’re one of my favorite people here.

Ultimately, I had to lose (almost) everything in the rebirth. Completely deconstructed and reassembled just a little bit better.

Yeah, you said something a few pages back about how our brains without alcohol are unlike exposed electrical wiring and we're just trying to tape it up as best we can while the wires works itself back into shape (I'm paraphrasing).  That really rings true to me.  

And "stop doing harm"...that was/is a big driver for me as well.  If it's ego or paranoia, whatever...I don't care.  My oldest knows enough to know I am cranky on some nights, and she knows something is off about me.  Hopefully my youngest won't have any recollection of this part of our home life.  And then when they get to be teenagers, I'll have to sit them down to talk about my issues with alcohol.  That there's a bunch of shit they should know before they succumb to peer pressure and experiment with alcohol.  It ain't all date rape and scooter-riding, there's another side to it that runs in my family that they will have to be conscious of for the rest of their lives.  For now, I want them to just be kids and it's nicer being in the present with them.  

unrelated note---one of the first guys I reached out to several months ago when really trying to quit.  Lives in my neighborhood, known him a long time but not terribly well.  Back in our younger days, we closed down a few bars together.  More than a few.  Anyway, ran into him during Covid and he had quit drinking but relapsed on Election Night 2020 of all the nights.  And went on a bender for awhile that took a toll on him and his marriage.  So he moves into our hood after that and has been dry since.  He doesn't do AA, but does counseling and addiction treatment.  But we talk about once a week about how we're dealing with no alcohol and my relapse awhile back.  His wife actually referred me to a therapist who has been helpful.  He has older kids and they were a big driver for him stopping since they are both observant teenagers.  anyway, out of the blue last week he calls and asks me for information on the AA chapter by our houses.  He wants to attend and asks me about the differences in the meetings and all the shit that goes on in there.  Same nervousness I had.  He was also apprehensive about who he might see in there (he just only recently found out his firm's managing partner is in recovery after working for him for like a decade).  I said the anonymity part is deadly serious to these people.  He'd definitely recognize some of the people in the 5:30p but nobody gives a shit.  Outing him wouldn't ever even occur to these people.  My neighbor's adult son goes to this chapter and I see him all the time visiting his parents and we just smile and nod.  

I asked him if he wanted me to go with him but he wanted to do it solo first time.  Totally cool.  But I was glad that he reached out to me and that I was able to help him a tiny bit.  

  

Edited January 21, 2023 by YGIFS

[BearSchlong 8,114]

From time to time people will show up in Beaumont meetings because they are afraid that they might run into someone they know in a Houston meeting. That’s always hilarious.

Pride and ego vs. humility. Flip the coin and see which side I’m on today.

My dad used to joke that he walked into his first AA meeting and saw his banker, lawyer, customers, suppliers, and investors, that’s when his life really began.

[closetohumping 17,464]

Yep. This is why I’m trying to slow down.  I want to be there for my kids

[YGIFS 19,452]

^This.  I've had more than a few people tell me you can't do it for other people, you have to do it for yourself.  I just can't subscribe to that part of the program.  My kids are a huge driver for me to stick with this.  It was one thing to drink weekly and then slur words in front of them every now and again or shout at the them to be quiet.  Then when I started really stopping and the withdrawals got bad, I was like "Oh shit, I can die from this now...not years from now."  That my youngest at only 3.5yo may not even remember me given how early memories are formed...that was one of a thousand eye openers.  

I tried quitting/scaling way back after the birth of each of my two girls.  Only stuck for a few weeks before fell back into old routines.  But I was going about it the wrong way.  Now I'm just trying to go one day at a time with zero alcohol, instead of my old "we'll only drink 5 days this month or I'll quit after my birthday" or whatever it was.  But man, I guess I didn't know what questions to ask when I started this so I didn't get the answers I needed...still figuring it all out.  But the after-effects of a hard stop are fucking tough.  I don't know what I was expecting but physically and mentally, it's brutal at times.  And I had a bad relapse that was also really tough afterwards, but I saw that one coming at least.  I kinda just started out on my own in July and probably should have reached out for more help in hindsight. 

I read almost this entire thread that first week ((I had lurked on it for awhile before that under my old handle) and saw some similarities in my situation and some of y'all...but most of you were much further along in your recovery and I was trying to figure out how to not snap at my family when I was feeling crappy and trying to figure out how to get more than 4 hours of shit sleep.  But started meetings, readings, 1:1's with others in recovery whom I already knew, and prayer and some counseling.  I'm doing more health and medical based shit this month like blood pressure reduction and I gotta get more exercise.  I was doing good on that at the start and then it waned and my weight has plateau'd, but overall I'm about 35 pounds lighter than I was when I stopped.  

It's really being with my kids more that helps me the most . Of course, when they;re acting crazy---it's also very tempting to go and hide and booze it up.  FUCK!  

[closetohumping 17,464]

1 minute ago, YGIFS said:

^This.  I've had more than a few people tell me you can't do it for other people, you have to do it for yourself.  I just can't subscribe to that part of the program.  My kids are a huge driver for me to stick with this.  It was one thing to drink weekly and then slur words in front of them every now and again or shout at the them to be quiet.  Then when I started really stopping and the withdrawals got bad, I was like "Oh shit, I can die from this now...not years from now."  That my youngest at only 3.5yo may not even remember me given how early memories are formed...that was one of a thousand eye openers.  

I tried quitting/scaling way back after the birth of each of my two girls.  Only stuck for a few weeks before fell back into old routines.  But I was going about it the wrong way.  Now I'm just trying to go one day at a time with zero alcohol, instead of my old "we'll only drink 5 days this month or I'll quit after my birthday" or whatever it was.  But man, I guess I didn't know what questions to ask when I started this so I didn't get the answers I needed...still figuring it all out.  But the after-effects of a hard stop are fucking tough.  I don't know what I was expecting but physically and mentally, it's brutal at times.  And I had a bad relapse that was also really tough afterwards, but I saw that one coming at least.  I kinda just started out on my own in July and probably should have reached out for more help in hindsight. 

I read almost this entire thread that first week ((I had lurked on it for awhile before that under my old handle) and saw some similarities in my situation and some of y'all...but most of you were much further along in your recovery and I was trying to figure out how to not snap at my family when I was feeling crappy and trying to figure out how to get more than 4 hours of shit sleep.  But started meetings, readings, 1:1's with others in recovery whom I already knew, and prayer and some counseling.  I'm doing more health and medical based shit this month like blood pressure reduction and I gotta get more exercise.  I was doing good on that at the start and then it waned and my weight has plateau'd, but overall I'm about 35 pounds lighter than I was when I stopped.  

It's really being with my kids more that helps me the most . Of course, when they;re acting crazy---it's also very tempting to go and hide and booze it up.  FUCK!  

I’ve always said my kids saved my life.  They have slowed me down but time to get to the next step

[YGIFS 19,452]

Well I wish you all the best in that next step brother.  At least you noticed you needed to take it before it was too late.  There is a slew of information and really caring people on this thread.  All of our end goal is the same, but the path is different for everybody.  Took me awhile to realize that too, I kinda threw everything at my problem early on and am still not sure what the right "blend" for me is......but I know it has something to do with my kids and slowing down time.  

[cactusflinthead 27,602]

On 1/19/2023 at 6:34 AM, YGIFS said:

rest of this board despises me

Not true bro. If there's someone that genuinely does I would bet they aren't worth worrying about. Yeah, we give you shit about longcat posts because we're a buncha assholes but I don't think anyone despises you. 

You're a good dude. 

[YGIFS 19,452]

I wasn't being that serious when I posted that.  The folks I do know IRL on here are all good friends and I've met lots of great people at the tailgates the last few years and gotten along with everyone IRL.  Others of you on this thread have reached out to me via email, PM, etc. and had really great resources and advice.  My sober posts have actually gotten much shorter and funnier but nobody seems to notice.  

Actually, I will tie the longcat posts back to what closetohumping said about taking the next step.  Obviously my posts on this particular thread get long sometimes because I got shit about my problem I gotta get off my chest and you fuckers are super helpful.  But I don't share much in meetings still.  I share in 1:1's but not in a large group.  I actually don't talk much in public even though I have to do it for work a lot.  But closetohumping and others:  try and attend some meetings in person (you can switch to zoom when more convenient).  But man, listening to people right next to you speak out loud about all the bullshit that's been clamoring in your head for years was so fucking cathartic.  I thought I'd just go through the motions and open up one day after a few weeks or months.  But listening to people in there is super helpful right outta the gate.  You realize how many other people have gone through this and had experiences like yours.  I mean you don't go in there to use somebody else's struggle to feel better about yourself, but when the person's three minutes are up and they exhale deeply, you can almost physically feel weight leaving the room.  Go there and be silent and just listen and post on here if that's helpful. 

I still remember coming home from my first meeting last July.  Wife asked me what it was like and I told her she wouldn't understand.  So I told her a few anecdotes and comments that rang true for me and she said, "You're right, I don't understand.  But sounds like they do, proud of you for going."    

[Macanudo 13,011]

Work really sucked for a variety of reasons for most of the 4th quarter and my job search has been unbelievably unproductive since I started looking in late August.  I really shudder to think what a mess I would be if I was still drinking.

Lots of other stuff has been going on personally and I'm just grateful that I have the mental and emotional clarity to deal with it sober.   I have a friend who is doing dry Janaury and I was goofing on him because his normal January is maybe 10 drinks total for the month.   As he was telling me about quitting for the month, he asked me what my "old" January looked like.   "Well, I usually hit 10 drinks before the 4th or 5th."   He was flabbergasted.  He didn't realize I was drinking that much.  

I chuckled inwardly because I knew what I had been doing and my family watched it all too often.   Even though they see a different me now I'm still kind of embarrassed by it.  

For those who say we should quit for ourselves,  I agree with that as a primary reason but quitting for others is important too.  At least to me.

Someone said uptrend that they didn't want their kids to remember them as a drunk.   That is a huge motivator for me.  I want my kids to remember me because I was a good dad and decent person.  

So I'm staying the course and continuing to work on my sobriety and mental health.  

 

 

[UpperWestside 6,189]

Today for me is three years since I woke up still drunk. I went to work 30 minutes late, but my manager did not notice because he was a heavy drinker. I got to work and told a co-worker that I was just going to have to stop right then and there. It had destroyed my personal life. I was a functional alcoholic and I could still do my job without any issues. Personally I was a wreck, but once I stopped and figured out the why if the drinking issues and how it was connected to autism is the point where life finally made sense.

Three years later and I am blessed enough to take a vacation for a month to a place I have always wanted to go to. If I were still drinking I could not do this and honestly the alcohol would’ve just eventually killed me like it did my aunt who died two years ago tomorrow from her liver giving out. She was a nurse for 33 years and knew better, but alcohol and depression and an alcoholic boyfriend did her in.

It’s amazing though just looking back and seeing the path that God has taken me down since I put down the bottle. The people who I have met and the opportunities I have had to help others who are in tough situations has been incredible. Not everyone is able to put that bottle down, but I am glad I did. Last summer I talked to Steven Furtick at my job. He’s a pastor that some of you would know by how plainly he dresses. We talked for about 15 minutes and found out how much we had in common. One thing I said to him was that he is able to bless people by reaching them where they are at and not looking down on them. I told him I work with guys that drink a lot and have a ton of issues with depression, but I felt good about where I work. He confirmed my thoughts when he said God has you in the place you are needed.

I say that not to say that you need to be religious. You do not need to be. Just find where you fit in in life and make the most of the life you have every single day. I will not waste anymore of my life. I decided that I am going to take two months off every year to do what I need for my own mental well-being and I am lucky I have an employer that supports that. Anyhow y’all be well and keep being a blessing to those you meet.

[Reagan1k 3,024]

IMO thoughts of others can play a significant part in the desire to stop drinking.  My belief is that the old adage that you can’t quit for someone else is to imply that you can’t stop solely because someone else wants you to stop- that the desire must come from within.  If the drunk doesn’t want to stop, no one else’s wish casting will work. 

[YGIFS 19,452]

Yeah, that's a fair point.  The initial drive and the work have to come from within, for and from the individual.  But at least weekly, if not daily...as with any goal or desire or wish...we frequently need to internalize external motivations and inspirations.  That goes for food, safety, procreation, wellness, religion, ontological thought, sometimes even basics like sleep and breathing.  Why should recovery be so different...nothing so special about us as humans.  We have an internal drive, we can even reboot it with self-motivation, routine, and discipline...but every other function requires external drivers from time to time  If I have nothing to draw on but myself and an anonymous 12-step program...I am doomed in the long-run.  At least for me, YMMV.  

I am 100% capable of maintaining sobriety for the rest of my life.  But if I did not have children, would I bother to see that goal through to natural death decades from now?  No.  The impetus to begin the path and stay on it has to come from within me.  But my inspirations and my end-game are unique to me and mine alone.  

Not trying to sound smarmy.  This is just a weird sticking point for me.  I have to do the work alone, or with a support group of like-minded folks.  Just like lowering blood pressure with a doctor or counselor, a swimming club, or a class of yoga mates.  They can give me the guidepath but I gotta work the shit myself.  But sometimes, like Rocky, I gotta scotch tape that photo of my family up on the mirror to fight through the shit.  It's my fight, it's my shit.  Nothing wrong with a "hang in there" poster behind me as I assess myself in the mirror though.  

no idea what the fuck I'm talking about right now BTW   

[Dewey 3,292]

When I quit, it was initially for others, but as I was sobering up, I learned that it isn't wise to do so, so many people will let you down, even the good ones fuck up. And so, if you're quitting for them, be it to show them that you can quit or show them that they can quit too, the minute they fuck up is the minute you start to question is any of this worth it? And maybe you go back out and drink. I can forgive myself a lot quicker than I can forgive another person, so I can live with myself better than with other people. It starts first with me, if I can quit for myself, then I can help others, even if just by example. If I can change how I think and get along better with myself, I can then get along with others, so on and so on. 

We're all fallible, I do not see any value in putting my hopes and dreams on another person. I'd rather it be me. 

And I know it's a blurry line, so many different avenues, for me, this was the one, and so my opinion of what has worked. 

[Reagan1k 3,024]

Motivation born from a sense of love is never a bad thing.

As long as the motivation is pure and the intentions are genuine, I see no downside as long as one also wants the change for themselves.

I guess my point was to say that kids, spouse, or other family/friends can be a part of the equation and I don't think the adage was meant to contradict that.

When I hear that phrase repeated, what I hear is that if I'm quitting solely to stop my spouse from bitching or to keep my boss from docking my pay, I'm probably playing a losing game in the long run, as eventually the disease will turn my give-a-shit knob to ZERO if I'm not fed-up on the inside.

[YGIFS 19,452]

Good point.  Probably why court ordered sobriety stints are always 100% successful. Eyeroll

 

[BBQ2Bayou 807]

On 1/19/2023 at 2:42 PM, Walser said:

I only mostly despise you.

BTW, I had a CT scan and ultrasound, and who knows what number of blood tests. Apparently I showed some markers for a fatty liver. The way the doctor explained it to me that a fatty liver can heal, but once it gets really bad to cirrhosis there is no cure. I don't want to find out if anyone likes me enough to donate part of their liver.

To those on the fence about how to classify yourself and your relationship with alcohol...just stop for a period of time. You will find out.

I was where you are , health wise at 35. Fatty liver, but I didn't quit. Got diagnosed with cirrhosis at 41. Also have varices in my esophagus that need to be watched closely. You're at a good spot to heal your body and mind, if that's the route you take. 

I'll be 46 in a week or so, haven't had a drink since I was diagnosed nearly 5 years ago and I am happier than ever. I probably shaved quite a few years off of the good years I could have had, but you can't go back and life is good in the present. Hope you find your path. 

[YGIFS 19,452]

Yeah, it starts and ends with us.  I'm fucking dumb for looking to anyone for support except other drunks.  Thank you guys again.  Need to talk to my sponsor tomorrow, hit a big fucking brick wall with the family tonight and realize...several months in...I am definitely going about this the wrong way.  But at least I'm still moving forward is all I can say...albeit in ugly and combative fashion.  I guess like the '83 Sox, I'm "Winnin' Ugly"   But need to pretty this up.  I didn't think it'd be sunshine and rainbows, but y'all were right...other people will let us down.  And that's not on them...it's on us for counting on support.  I'd like to not drink tomorrow.  Maybe have some coffee and chat with somebody who knows the drill.  Thanks for listening.  

[Dewey 3,292]

2 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Yeah, it starts and ends with us.  I'm fucking dumb for looking to anyone for support except other drunks.  Thank you guys again.  Need to talk to my sponsor tomorrow, hit a big fucking brick wall with the family tonight and realize...several months in...I am definitely going about this the wrong way.  But at least I'm still moving forward is all I can say...albeit in ugly and combative fashion.  I guess like the '83 Sox, I'm "Winnin' Ugly"   But need to pretty this up.  I didn't think it'd be sunshine and rainbows, but y'all were right...other people will let us down.  And that's not on them...it's on us for counting on support.  I'd like to not drink tomorrow.  Maybe have some coffee and chat with somebody who knows the drill.  Thanks for listening.  

I don't think you're going about the wrong way, you're involved in your sobriety and seem to be fighting every day and along the way, picking things up that can help. 

Who was it? Sandy Beach (that was his real name) ? He said getting sober is like turning around the Queen Marry , you need a lot of tugboats and it takes time. Be patient with it all and learn to forgive yourself over and over and over and over again. 

As they say, it gets better and it does. 

[Dewey 3,292]

When I was in my first several months, a guy told me to check out father Martin and so I did. I'm not much of a Catholic, in fact the rare time I go to church with my mom, she tells me not to take communion lol. But this guy, Father Martin hammered home many things for me. If you haven't already, check him out

 

 

[Kennythetiger 9,459]

7 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Yeah, it starts and ends with us.  I'm fucking dumb for looking to anyone for support except other drunks.  Thank you guys again.  Need to talk to my sponsor tomorrow, hit a big fucking brick wall with the family tonight and realize...several months in...I am definitely going about this the wrong way.  But at least I'm still moving forward is all I can say...albeit in ugly and combative fashion.  I guess like the '83 Sox, I'm "Winnin' Ugly"   But need to pretty this up.  I didn't think it'd be sunshine and rainbows, but y'all were right...other people will let us down.  And that's not on them...it's on us for counting on support.  I'd like to not drink tomorrow.  Maybe have some coffee and chat with somebody who knows the drill.  Thanks for listening.  

You’re not dumb, Lobo- you’re learning. These guys have been down in the hole before, and they know the way out. 
And I think it’s ok to look to others for support- just recognize that their support may not come in a time frame or in a manner that you are expecting. 

[BearSchlong 8,114]

When I was in my first several months, a guy told me to check out father Martin and so I did. I'm not much of a Catholic, in fact the rare time I go to church with my mom, she tells me not to take communion lol. But this guy, Father Martin hammered home many things for me. If you haven't already, check him out
 
 

That's a really good video, thank you.

[YGIFS 19,452]

I try to help people in real life.  I know I come across like an asshole and frankly, I don;'t really give a shit.  but I'm pretty philanthropic IRL.  Then recovery comes along and makes me question everything.  I can coach people on a lotta shit, but I don't shit about fuck when it comes to addiction/recovery.  But a guy I've been leaning on since day one of seriously trying to quit last summer...I've mentioned him before.  He asked me about meetings recently and then reached out last night.  He was traveling for only the second time since truly dead-stop quitting two years ago.  He was worried about being alone in a hotel and getting fucked up.  We talked last night and again today and I think I was helpful.  I just listened...mainly 'cause I didn't know what the fuck to say.  But I'm pretty sure he didn't have a drop and I think I was just listening to congratulate him and encourage him to press on and I talked a little bit about my shit.  He's on the road right now back to Austin and sounds great.  And i'm happy for him, I'm a little happy I to help a little bit, and I hope that I can make it through my next business trip.  We talked about how not drinking at evens is one thing, not drinking alone at home is one thing, and then how being by yourself on the road is a whole other animal by itself.  But here we are.  Felt good to help a guy who has helped me.  

Some hours seem like months.  Some days seem like moments.  I dunno.  

[TwiceHorn 31,535]

On 1/23/2023 at 9:04 PM, YGIFS said:

Yeah, it starts and ends with us.  I'm fucking dumb for looking to anyone for support except other drunks.  Thank you guys again.  Need to talk to my sponsor tomorrow, hit a big fucking brick wall with the family tonight and realize...several months in...I am definitely going about this the wrong way.  But at least I'm still moving forward is all I can say...albeit in ugly and combative fashion.  I guess like the '83 Sox, I'm "Winnin' Ugly"   But need to pretty this up.  I didn't think it'd be sunshine and rainbows, but y'all were right...other people will let us down.  And that's not on them...it's on us for counting on support.  I'd like to not drink tomorrow.  Maybe have some coffee and chat with somebody who knows the drill.  Thanks for listening.  

What you will learn is that all you can do is "sweep your side of the street." 

Expectations are crushed when hope meets reality and expectations lead to resentments.  And if you look at your series of posts, you'll see that in action.  And we as alcoholics can't afford resentments.  They happen, yes, but you have to quash them and not nurture them, which I think you are doing by trying to talk this out.  But don't let it become a blame game.  There's actually plenty to go around and it's usually not useful to try to allocate it.

You're on the right track.  But there's a reason that AA, the program operated and conducted by alcoholics, is the only method of sobriety for hardcore alcoholics that has any real track record of success, pitiful as it may be.  We are the only people that really understand other alcoholics.

Another bon mot about overthinking this stuff is "Your best thinking got you to this place, maybe it's time to try something else."  That's not to say that all of your thinking is wrong.  You're a bright guy with what I believe to be a solid career and that's going to survive this and come out better than ever.

But when it comes to "emotional" thinking and "interpersonal" thinking, it may be time to take a step back from your usual patterns of thought.

Edited January 26, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[TwiceHorn 31,535]

On 1/23/2023 at 10:14 AM, Reagan1k said:

Motivation born from a sense of love is never a bad thing.

As long as the motivation is pure and the intentions are genuine, I see no downside as long as one also wants the change for themselves.

I guess my point was to say that kids, spouse, or other family/friends can be a part of the equation and I don't think the adage was meant to contradict that.

When I hear that phrase repeated, what I hear is that if I'm quitting solely to stop my spouse from bitching or to keep my boss from docking my pay, I'm probably playing a losing game in the long run, as eventually the disease will turn my give-a-shit knob to ZERO if I'm not fed-up on the inside.

I think what it boils down to is this:  if your motivation to stop drinking comes from outside you, it is a barrier to accepting that you are an alcoholic, which, according to the First Step, is the most fundamental aspect of the program.

It's not an insurmountable barrier by any means, which is why some people, like me, sort of forced or coerced to enter treatment/recovery, actually do recover.  But if you're doing it for someone else, it's likely you think THEY think you have a problem and YOU have not accepted that you are powerless over alcohol and your life has become unmenageable.  See Fr. Martin, above.

[Reagan1k 3,024]

On 1/25/2023 at 6:24 PM, YGIFS said:

I try to help people in real life.  I know I come across like an asshole and frankly, I don;'t really give a shit.  but I'm pretty philanthropic IRL.  Then recovery comes along and makes me question everything.  I can coach people on a lotta shit, but I don't shit about fuck when it comes to addiction/recovery.  But a guy I've been leaning on since day one of seriously trying to quit last summer...I've mentioned him before.  He asked me about meetings recently and then reached out last night.  He was traveling for only the second time since truly dead-stop quitting two years ago.  He was worried about being alone in a hotel and getting fucked up.  We talked last night and again today and I think I was helpful.  I just listened...mainly 'cause I didn't know what the fuck to say.  But I'm pretty sure he didn't have a drop and I think I was just listening to congratulate him and encourage him to press on and I talked a little bit about my shit.  He's on the road right now back to Austin and sounds great.  And i'm happy for him, I'm a little happy I to help a little bit, and I hope that I can make it through my next business trip.  We talked about how not drinking at evens is one thing, not drinking alone at home is one thing, and then how being by yourself on the road is a whole other animal by itself.  But here we are.  Felt good to help a guy who has helped me.  

Some hours seem like months.  Some days seem like moments.  I dunno.  

You did help your friend!!  No doubt about it....and in a significant way.

Often all we need to do to help is listening to a fellow drunk verbalize something and get it past their teeth and out of the rattle-box brain.  That takes the power out of it and wipes away the fog on the mirror.  We don't have to provide any answers or solutions.

Being a trusted friend who he knows can talk the same talk and will listen without judgment is being of service.

That's the magic of this deal - one drunk talking to another drunk opens both parties to the grace and clarity we need/want.

[Celery Man 20,996]

On 1/25/2023 at 9:45 PM, TwiceHorn said:

What you will learn is that all you can do is "sweep your side of the street." 

Expectations are crushed when hope meets reality and expectations lead to resentments.  And if you look at your series of posts, you'll see that in action.  And we as alcoholics can't afford resentments.  They happen, yes, but you have to quash them and not nurture them, which I think you are doing by trying to talk this out.  But don't let it become a blame game.  There's actually plenty to go around and it's usually not useful to try to allocate it.

This has bounced around in my head since I read it the other night. It's funny how... you can hear the same thing a million times and but then sometimes you hear it at the right moment for it to click in and associate with some behavior in a meaningful way. I've talked a bit about how I'm trying to be a better husband to my wife this year (I mean, always, it's just I've targeted it this year). Our dynamic is difficult because we are both alcoholics, so there's a cascading effect when resentments build and bubble. The second paragraph of that quote combined with the "sweep your side of the street" thing really hit for me with where I've been trying to get to - thanks for saying that, twice.

[TwiceHorn 31,535]

11 hours ago, Celery Man said:

This has bounced around in my head since I read it the other night. It's funny how... you can hear the same thing a million times and but then sometimes you hear it at the right moment for it to click in and associate with some behavior in a meaningful way. I've talked a bit about how I'm trying to be a better husband to my wife this year (I mean, always, it's just I've targeted it this year). Our dynamic is difficult because we are both alcoholics, so there's a cascading effect when resentments build and bubble. The second paragraph of that quote combined with the "sweep your side of the street" thing really hit for me with where I've been trying to get to - thanks for saying that, twice.

Glad it helped.  

Thing I love about this place is just typing crap out.  For me, unless it's for teh lulz, it's usually sincere, but it may also be half-baked, not-quite-thought-through all the way.  Maybe a bit less so on this thread than some of the others, cuz I've been thinking about this for a while.

Which brings up another point.  As has been said, AA is a program of action.  You do your way into thinking differently.  I heard something on NPR talking about something else entirely, but psychologically related, and the interviewee said something like "we find that it's must easier for people to change their thinking through their actions than through just trying to change their thinking.  Act as if."

So, I sit here pontificating about things I've learned over the years, but it really was action that got me going.  It's a luxury to be able to sit and think about it and then bloviate about it.  My main thought is how incredibly spot-on AA is for something devised 88 years ago.

 

Edited January 28, 2023 by TwiceHorn

[DalTxHornFan 3,117]

On 1/24/2023 at 12:16 AM, Dewey said:

When I was in my first several months, a guy told me to check out father Martin and so I did. I'm not much of a Catholic, in fact the rare time I go to church with my mom, she tells me not to take communion lol. But this guy, Father Martin hammered home many things for me. If you haven't already, check him out

 

 

Great video.  Is it wrong that I'm sipping on brandy while watching?

This is one of my favorite Surly topics.  I appreciate all of the honesty here.  We do have an amazing community!

[closetohumping 17,464]

8 hours ago, DalTxHornFan said:

Great video.  Is it wrong that I'm sipping on brandy while watching?

This is one of my favorite Surly topics.  I appreciate all of the honesty here.  We do have an amazing community!

Imo yes it is

[UpperWestside 6,189]

I’m ending up my vacation Thursday morning, but I look back on what I have been able to see in the last month and I realize even more forcefully that had I continued to drink after January 20th, 2020 I would not be alive to experience a place I always wanted to go to since I was a child. I would not have met my niece back in Texas who is turning four next month or gotten on FaceTime with her everyday, as well as my nephew, who will be 1 in March.

 

@YGIFS makes really good points about doing this for his family as well. I think you obviously want to clean yourself up, but having such a strong motivation like family really helps. I hope y’all are all enjoying your weekend and that your week gets off to a great start tomorrow!

[YGIFS 19,452]

Yeah, it's the old bicycle pedal cliche.  Motivation is the easy part, pushing down on the pedal.  Discipline is the hard part, bringing the pedal back up to begin anew.  I went off on the family tangent in the last few weeks here because of something I didn't post on here but told a few of you privately.  I relapsed late December/very early January for a few days.  Doing better now, but that's no guarantee of what tomorrow brings. 

But when I started out on this journey last July, I was pretty good on the discipline side.  Meetings, counseling, prayer, service, working steps, reading, journaling.  Then it kinda got to a point at the holidays where I was just sorta wandering in the woods looking for inspiration and motivation again because going it alone was getting hard again.  It came in the form of family, the three people I love more than anything.  But that wasn't enough and I wasn't peddling as I should so I gotta back to basics, to self-discipline, to work and service.  

[Kennythetiger 9,459]

Keep on keepin’ on. 

[BearSchlong 8,114]

Nowhere in recovery circles is discipline considered a virtue. In fact, it gets in the way of capitulation.

Willingness, yes. But the whole paradox is that discipline has to come from God, not self.

Honesty, yes.

Open-mindedness too.

We recover when the pain of continuing to suffer becomes unbearable.

[YGIFS 19,452]

Okay, how about routine, scheduling, structure?  Damn you and your thesaurus therapy!   

I like your last sentence.  I thought I had reach my pain threshhold back in July.  But I found another one earlier this month.  i don't wanna see the one behind that one.  

[BearSchlong 8,114]

That stuff is cool as long as you’re going easy on yourself.

When I got sober and bought into recovery, I realized a few things. Life shouldn’t be a beat down. And I wouldn’t treat a friend the way I treated myself. I’m instinctually forgiving and tolerant of others, but not myself. My self-dialogue is sometimes harsh, but at least now I realize it. I’m human and that’s the best I’ll ever be.

The discipline fallacy is that I can control and enjoy things, but in reality if I’m attempting to do so, I’m not.

It’s a difficult posture to achieve.

So in terms of discipline, really the only hard and fast rules I have are 1) step 1 is an everyday step, every morning I wake up with untreated alcoholism and I remain that way until I make contact with a higher power, and 2) go to 3-4 meetings a week and participate in service work, reading, and talk to other alcoholics.

I have to remember that the bar for excellence is really low. Don’t drink, go to meetings, help others, and life falls into place.

And it helps if I can get honest and get into gratitude.

[BearSchlong 8,114]

Apropos

[Celery Man 20,996]

Is there a healthy way to characterize how we resist the strong but fleeting temptations that pop up, especially in early sobriety? I can remember a handful of times that strong almost irresistible feeling of needing a drink like a thirsty person needs water. It's not the same thing as trying to white knuckle your way to sobriety, but that ability to walk to a meeting instead of ducking into that bar, or pick up the phone or go run for a few minutes and get past that swell of temptation.

I think that's a really good point on discipline vs surrender. Every time I tried to quit before I gave up was an agonizing failure in discipline, and when I eventually did stop drinking it was the exact opposite - total surrender.

 

[Reagan1k 3,024]

On 2/2/2023 at 10:34 AM, Celery Man said:

Is there a healthy way to characterize how we resist the strong but fleeting temptations that pop up, especially in early sobriety? I can remember a handful of times that strong almost irresistible feeling of needing a drink like a thirsty person needs water. It's not the same thing as trying to white knuckle your way to sobriety, but that ability to walk to a meeting instead of ducking into that bar, or pick up the phone or go run for a few minutes and get past that swell of temptation.

I think that's a really good point on discipline vs surrender. Every time I tried to quit before I gave up was an agonizing failure in discipline, and when I eventually did stop drinking it was the exact opposite - total surrender.

 

That’s hard to put into words but I get where you’re going.

In my mind, that turn to sobriety instead of the bar happened when I ceased thinking that “my case is different” and “if you only knew”.  Turning the other way- toward others who could talk the same talk, and I finally surrendered to the fact that I’m not different, I’m just an alcoholic, and that a drink isn’t ever going to give me what I need.

That moment of accepting grace and surrendering to that simple but hard to swallow truth points to Bear’s post directly above.  That narcissistic / independent veil gets pierced- even just pricked, and it lets all of the air out of the ballon.

I’m not special- I’m not unique- I’m just a dude with problems like everyone else.  But, unlike many (many, not ALL), I’ve got an obsessive mind and a body that won’t let me drink successfully so I have to find a sufficient substitute.  Big difference between many and all.

Until I can see myself in you and hear my story in yours, I remain terminally unique and doomed to a life of misery- drunk or dry. 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Reagan1k

[Jerry Callo 8,726]

51 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

Until I can see myself in you and hear my story in yours, I remain terminally unique and doomed to a life of misery- drunk or dry. 

This was the benefit I gained by reading through this thread and the one on TOS before actually quitting.  Any lurkers out there can chime in and ask questions, but even if they don't - they should keep reading.

[YGIFS 19,452]

38 minutes ago, Jerry Callo said:

This was the benefit I gained by reading through this thread and the one on TOS before actually quitting.  Any lurkers out there can chime in and ask questions, but even if they don't - they should keep reading.

MOtherfucking this.  I've typed it a dozen times before I'll type in another dozen times.  I was totally fine having left the board months earlier for an unrelated reason.  But I still read this thread and I think it was baseball at the time.  And in late June/early July, had a brutal patch that really put my health and marriage to the test.  The severity of the withdrawals, the circular self-talk, the lies, the admittance, etc.  I would find myself reading this thread for hours and with my new mindset of finally wanting to truly admit and truly try to quit, y'all's posts suddenly read different to me.  Same words, but I was finally set to receive.  And then the meetings and the book.  And a few friends in recovery.  But this thread really was a huge help and impetus for me.  Still is, but once I started reading y'all's shit through my lens of "they're mostly just releasing, at best they're trying to help others, but they are absolutely not just spinning their wheels.  There's a lot of guys on here just like you and working the same shit you are."  I can't explain it but suddenly I just read/heard alcoholic's stories different from then on, so I re-signed up under a new name from new IP, thanks to immamac for clearing the way for my tech bullshit once again (look forward to fucking up the whole board for a couple days down the road).  

But if you're lurking here, keep doing it.  PM one of these more seasoned guys.  Post under another handle, whatever.  The lives and recovery in here as just as real as you and yours.  But the stakes aren't as high, this helped me gain confidence to attend meetings, talk to others in real life, and not beat myself up so much.  I will say for me, getting shit off my chest has been super helpful, but listening to the inner workings of others hearts and minds has actually been even more helpful, if that makes sense.  In real life, I think most of this whole board would get along fine, but it'd be like most of real life---in the end, mostly decent people who don't really have time for 100 friends so we have this place.  But IRL, there are some folks on this particular thread that I'd like in real life at some point for helping me get over the first obstacle.  And as you lurkers can see, the rest of the site has the humanity and decency to not bring up our shit on other threads.  

I post a little and read a lot on that e-aa.org group as well, but this place was already a community I knew and so that was a big help.  I've gotten to know a few folks at my local in-person/zoom chapter.  And of course, I know dozens of lifelong alcoholics in my own network and family.  But this thread was a huge start.  I may, and probably should, leave the rest of the board.  But I want to maintain posting access to this one for a long while.  

[Reagan1k 3,024]

16 hours ago, Jerry Callo said:

This was the benefit I gained by reading through this thread and the one on TOS before actually quitting.  Any lurkers out there can chime in and ask questions, but even if they don't - they should keep reading.

It truly is a miracle.  I’ve come to believe inspired by a force of greater good.  Like the old guy told me- quit listening for the differences and listen for the similarities.

This way of life works in spite of ourselves, if we will only identify and are willing to take action regardless of how we “feel” about them. 

[BearSchlong 8,114]

This spoke to me.


If you're like me, it's been a lot of wack-a-mole.

[TwiceHorn 31,535]

2 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

This spoke to me.


If you're like me, it's been a lot of wack-a-mole.

Agreed.

I dipped Copenhagen for a long time.  For years, it was just a thing that I didn't give a whole lot of thought to.  Didn't try to quit, knew in some intellectual sense that I was addicted like I still am to coffee.  My dentist kept an eye out for problems and tried to get me to quit, but I was kind of whatever (not threatened in the way quitting drinking was when it was suggested to me).

But after I got sober, it started to feel more like a lifeline, but that too diminished and I finally quit a few years back.

Similarly, if I don't pay attention, I can have a pretty unhealthy relationship to food and "treating myself" or telling myself I "deserve" this or that, and really chowing down too frequently on unhealthy food.  That seems to have ebbed quite a bit the last few years.

[BearSchlong 8,114]

Had a chance to attend Simply AA in Irving last night. Great group, very big book centered. I knew a half dozen or so people from the Lakeside conference, so it was great to see friends.

For any potential alcoholics, or traveling alcoholics who find themselves in DFW, they are a solid group.

[BearSchlong 8,114]

Same thing with the 7:45 am Citi group at 619 Lexington in Manhattan.

Just the thing before a day in the city and an afternoon crawl across Little Italy.

I’m espresso’d to death.

[YGIFS 19,452]

Checking in on folks over this long weekend.  Had a shittastic end of the week for work.  And a buncha family shit today on the homefront.  My anxiety and blood pressure are up, I can feel it.  I'm glad there's no booze in the house, would be pretty tempting to jump in my time machine and fast forward to church tomorrow morning.  This is gonna take longer physically than I expected.  But y'all provided a lot of insight into that.  I also went with a friend of mine who I've talked about on here to the hoops game today with our daughters.  He's two years sober and started asking me for advice of all people.  I asked him not to talk about it in front of my daughter.  His daughter knows about his stuff, she is like 13 IIRC.  Mine knows something is up with dad, but we're still trying to figure out how to explain it to her.  But despite sitting in the Indeed Lounge with booze all around, it was probably the easiest time I've had not drinking this week.  Before and after have been tough given the stress in our house right now.  Anyway, just venting.  Gonna zoom the late meeting tonight and do volunteer duty after church tomorrow (serving, cleaning, washing dishes, etc.).  But I gotta get my hypertension under better control aside from just not drinking.

[Celery Man 20,996]

It’s a long what now?

 

ah presidents day. Fuckin Danish company.

 

Edited February 19, 2023 by Celery Man

[Mikey4 2,476]

I haven't posted in this thread (as far as I can recall), but I'm about 19 months without a drink, after drinking daily and heavily for a couple of years prior. I blame the stress and ease of access during covid lockdowns, but whatever. The first year was hard with holidays, vacations, weddings, etc., but after a while everyone knows I'm not drinking, and it got a lot easier. I wonder sometimes if I'll ever drink again, and what limits I should set (e.g., only on vacation), but I'm enjoying being sober and don't want to mess it up.