I'm An Alcoholic

[TwiceHorn 31534]

44 minutes ago, EE2B said:

For me, it’s taken the edge off and allowed me to let a lot of shit roll off my back that I would’ve gotten pissed off about previously. It’s also allowed me to be honest with myself on when I’m having a bad day and get myself out of it much faster than before. Previously, I would worry about things that did not amount to shit for a long time. Now, I can move passed it much quicker and get over it. 

 

35 minutes ago, Etxhorn81 said:

Paxil for me

Yeah, I took zoloft for about a year, sort of precautionary.  They're antidepressants, but have sort of general mild beneficial effects, whether you are "clinically" depressed or, as was applied to me "dysthymic."  I went off it after a year and got the brain zaps, so I think it was doing something, and my libido was depressed.

Probably a reasonable thing to try.

[Etxhorn81 33]

28 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

 

Yeah, I took zoloft for about a year, sort of precautionary.  They're antidepressants, but have sort of general mild beneficial effects, whether you are "clinically" depressed or, as was applied to me "dysthymic."  I went off it after a year and got the brain zaps, so I think it was doing something, and my libido was depressed.

Probably a reasonable thing to try.

If I miss a day, my head swims like crazy. 
 

i got on it after I was diagnosed with small bowel cancer at 36 years old. 6 years later and I’m still in it. My wife says I’m much better to be around. 

[Celery Man 20996]

Is there a good phrase for “I don’t have any power over this and so I’ve chosen to not to concern myself about it” that doesn’t sound the same as “I don’t care.”? That’s the petard I keep hoisting myself on in relationship fights, saying “I don’t care” when I mean “there’s nothing for me to do”, and once I say it about the wrong thing that’s ballgame.

I took Wellbutrin for a bit in high school, which… I don’t recall it having much of an effect but I don’t think i was really depressed so much as 16 with a dead mom. I would investigate though if I felt like it could help.

[TwiceHorn 31534]

Just now, Celery Man said:

Is there a good phrase for “I don’t have any power over this and so I’ve chosen to not to concern myself about it” that doesn’t sound the same as “I don’t care.”? That’s the petard I keep hoisting myself on in relationship fights, saying “I don’t care” when I mean “there’s nothing for me to do”, and once I say it about the wrong thing that’s ballgame.

I took Wellbutrin for a bit in high school, which… I don’t recall it having much of an effect but I don’t think i was really depressed so much as 16 with a dead mom. I would investigate though if I felt like it could help.

Yeah, the line between having the appropriate amount of concern for the appropriate things and appearing not to give a single solitary fuck can be fine at times.

Sometimes all you can do is say "I hear what you're saying" as sincerely as possible and stfu.

[BearSchlong 8111]

Damned duplicate.

The Subtle Art of not Giving A F*ck is a great book.

[BearSchlong 8111]

Over the last six years, I’ve determined through experience and consultation with my doc that one 150mg bupropion (Wellbutrin generic) ER plus a non-ER 75mg is my sweet spot. It’s about half the typical dosage for those meds. It keeps me stable but not numb. Periodically I will go off the medication for six months, but I find it helpful. Sometimes I find it challenging to experience a negative emotion and know it’s the medication. The meme that best explains it is Clark Griswald's “Fun? You’ll have so much fun you’ll need surgery to remove the smile from your face.”




There are AA groups in certain west coast cities that abhor all psychotropic meds, and I vehemently disagree with their philosophy.

[YGIFS 19452]

Whew, rough Sunday.  To a better Monday folks.  

[hullabelew 3724]

16 hours ago, Celery Man said:

Is there a good phrase for “I don’t have any power over this and so I’ve chosen to not to concern myself about it” that doesn’t sound the same as “I don’t care.”? That’s the petard I keep hoisting myself on in relationship fights, saying “I don’t care” when I mean “there’s nothing for me to do”, and once I say it about the wrong thing that’s ballgame.

I took Wellbutrin for a bit in high school, which… I don’t recall it having much of an effect but I don’t think i was really depressed so much as 16 with a dead mom. I would investigate though if I felt like it could help.

I constantly tell my wife, "I have no power over it......so I can't waste my energy worrying about it".  It's one of the very, very few things I say that she doesn't have a retort for.  

[Reagan1k 3024]

1 hour ago, hullabelew said:

I constantly tell my wife, "I have no power over it......so I can't waste my energy worrying about it".  It's one of the very, very few things I say that she doesn't have a retort for.  

Same......"I'm powerless over that." or "Not my circus."

If you need to convey that you do care, you can follow-up by saying that you are certainly there to listen to how it is affecting the other party, even if you are powerless to make any changes.  

Pro-tip.....Don't use the circus line when the issue is regarding her family!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BearSchlong 8111]

I constantly tell my wife, "I have no power over it......so I can't waste my energy worrying about it".  It's one of the very, very few things I say that she doesn't have a retort for.  

Inshallah.

God willing.

False
Events
Appearing
Real

Honey, this is one of those things I’m just gonna give over to my higher power and say “thy will be done”

[Basil 755]

On 4/16/2023 at 7:55 PM, BearSchlong said:

Over the last six years, I’ve determined through experience and consultation with my doc that one 150mg bupropion (Wellbutrin generic) ER plus a non-ER 75mg is my sweet spot. It’s about half the typical dosage for those meds. It keeps me stable but not numb. Periodically I will go off the medication for six months, but I find it helpful. Sometimes I find it challenging to experience a negative emotion and know it’s the medication. The meme that best explains it is Clark Griswald's “Fun? You’ll have so much fun you’ll need surgery to remove the smile from your face.”




There are AA groups in certain west coast cities that abhor all psychotropic meds, and I vehemently disagree with their philosophy.

I have been wondering about this for a while now.  I was put on 100 mg Wellbutrin ER 2x/day the same day I was put on Librium, the same day I quit drinking at he beginning of last December.  I was only on the librium 8-9 days.  I have never before been prescribed any mood altering drugs besides an occasional, as-needed xanax (mostly flying, I fucking hate flying) and have no idea what the Wellbutrin is doing for me.  I'm doing fine on the drinking front and have been thinking about ditching the Wellbutrin, but at the same time I've got a good thing going and do not want to mess that up.  What happens when you go of them?  All I can relate to is drunk every night me and sober with Wellbutrin me.

[BearSchlong 8111]

I’d definitely consult with your MD before making any moves.

[hullabelew 3724]

16 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

I’d definitely consult with your MD before making any moves.

Ditto.  

[YGIFS 19452]

Yeah, I really need to start thinking about meds.  I know diligence and patience are most important, but shit's still wrong.  Not getting any worse, but not really any better either.  

[Reagan1k 3024]

6 hours ago, hullabelew said:

Ditto.  

Make that a trifecta.

The issue I have experienced with medication is that you don't necessarily know the good it's doing until you stop taking it, and when dealing with addiction, depression, or bipolar disorder, that is a risk.  

It's pretty easy to go off of blood pressure medication, experience some ill effects, and decide to go back on.  One can't safely predict with any certainty how the untreated mind will react if there is a mental illness, or how the untreated addict will respond. 

Akin to starting to feel so good that a recovered alcoholic puts their program and step work on the back burner or stops all together....forgetting to do what go them to the good place. That's a steep and slippery slope.

I know I'm not guaranteed a comeback if I let myself get too far down the path away from emotional (and eventually physical) sobriety.

The fuckin' stops when the gorilla is done with me.....I don't get to decide.

[YGIFS 19452]

This has all been really helpful folks, thank you.  I've never really been a meds guy.  I've never taken a prescription drug for more than a week for various ailments/viruses.  I don't do recreational drugs.  So my only baseline for judgement is alcohol.  And I didn't try to quit because the booze itself was taking a toll on me (I mean, it obviously was deep down but I was way too high functioning and still physically capable).  I had to quit because it was when I came off of regular usage, the shit really hit the fan with my mind and body.  I do worry that If I try some of the stuff y'all are talking about (and obviously in consultation with my GP), that I might get "Oh hey, I'm doing better...I can stop taking these now."  And then 48 hours later, the fucking cheese-grater hits and I'm all kinds of fucked.

[Etxhorn81 33]

23 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

This has all been really helpful folks, thank you.  I've never really been a meds guy.  I've never taken a prescription drug for more than a week for various ailments/viruses.  I don't do recreational drugs.  So my only baseline for judgement is alcohol.  And I didn't try to quit because the booze itself was taking a toll on me (I mean, it obviously was deep down but I was way too high functioning and still physically capable).  I had to quit because it was when I came off of regular usage, the shit really hit the fan with my mind and body.  I do worry that If I try some of the stuff y'all are talking about (and obviously in consultation with my GP), that I might get "Oh hey, I'm doing better...I can stop taking these now."  And then 48 hours later, the fucking cheese-grater hits and I'm all kinds of fucked.

It just takes the edge off. That’s made such a difference in my life. You’re not going to be a zombie or not have emotions, but the shit that use to irk you won’t compound into things. 
 

i think I’ll take them for the rest of my life. It wasn’t worth the strain on my marriage with me being so impatient and getting aggravated so easily. 

[Kennythetiger 9455]

56 minutes ago, Etxhorn81 said:

It just takes the edge off. That’s made such a difference in my life. You’re not going to be a zombie or not have emotions, but the shit that use to irk you won’t compound into things. 
 

i think I’ll take them for the rest of my life. It wasn’t worth the strain on my marriage with me being so impatient and getting aggravated so easily. 

Yep. “Irritability” was the word that my doctor used. I told her that I was down for anything she thought might work, except I didn’t want anything that would make me fat, impotent, or a zombie. Wellbutrin didn’t do any of that. 

[BearSchlong 8111]

I went the first 5 years of sobriety with zero meds. And at this point I’m not sure if I prefer being leveled out with a small dose of Wellbutrin or unmedicated better. My focus and mood are better when medicated, but it’s not quite natural.

The constant is my reliance on a higher power and being active as heck in AA.

But 18 years ago I was “bipolar” and zoinked out on a combination of Lithium and Cymbalta. And Whisky. Nope. Just an untreated alcoholic.

My psychiatrist lols that I was ever Dx’d as bipolar. Alcoholic insanity presents like it though.

[YGIFS 19452]

Yeah, I kinda worried that I was for awhile.  But was never diagnosed as such.  Then when the consumption kicked up a notch, I thought it was bipolar again.  But nope, it was the cycle of waiting to drink-drinking-waiting to drink-drinking-pretending I haven't been drinking-more drinking-regretting drinking-upset I am not still drinking.  And it does mirror bipolar in many ways.  At least for me.  But you guys talking about irritability and impatience.  That's what the ride down has been like.  I'm not combative, not violent, memory has certainly cleared up, more empathetic again liked I used to be.  But can just be salty as fuck and cranky outta the blue.  I catch it earlier which is the good part.  'Cause I could go on for hours like that if I had been drinking.  But at leaast I catch it now and try to course-correct.  Wife sees it in me, like "you still get pissy easily but your swings only last a few minutes to an hour instead of days."  

Your exposed electrical wiring analogy/metaphor rings true to me still.  I remind myself of that several times a week.  

[Etxhorn81 33]

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

Yeah, I kinda worried that I was for awhile.  But was never diagnosed as such.  Then when the consumption kicked up a notch, I thought it was bipolar again.  But nope, it was the cycle of waiting to drink-drinking-waiting to drink-drinking-pretending I haven't been drinking-more drinking-regretting drinking-upset I am not still drinking.  And it does mirror bipolar in many ways.  At least for me.  But you guys talking about irritability and impatience.  That's what the ride down has been like.  I'm not combative, not violent, memory has certainly cleared up, more empathetic again liked I used to be.  But can just be salty as fuck and cranky outta the blue.  I catch it earlier which is the good part.  'Cause I could go on for hours like that if I had been drinking.  But at leaast I catch it now and try to course-correct.  Wife sees it in me, like "you still get pissy easily but your swings only last a few minutes to an hour instead of days."  

Your exposed electrical wiring analogy/metaphor rings true to me still.  I remind myself of that several times a week.  

You describe me perfectly. Never violent or combative. Just like your wife said, pissy. 
 

i can’t even remember anymore the things that pissed me off…..   that should let you know my life is different now.  

[BearSchlong 8111]

Now. . . The are no “big deals” anymore. The Gods and the government and the universe aren’t picking on me. Suck it up, buttercup, and start adulting.

I went to the ragtag misfit group tonight (Fellowship)for a meeting and talked to a guy for a half hour afterward who picked up a 60-day chip. His sponsor is 11 years sober and 31 yrs old, one of my litter mates and closest friends.

There were a half dozen people there who were at my first meeting. I’ve watched their lives over the last 12 years. It hasn’t always been pretty. One is a steadfast, dependable recovery-focused older man whose kids have taken some challenging roads. Another dealt with a different addiction that left him with HIV. Another was Mr. AA, and then he inherited some $Millions from his frugal, responsible father. I watched from afar as he spent it all on hookers and blow and surfing and motorcycles but is back in the rooms. He’s also the guy that bought my old boat and promptly sank it. Another retired as a ship captain but had to watch his very darling wife wrestle with painkiller addiction. Way back when, after one of her surgeries, my wife made them a gumbo, and we delivered it to their house. He was on the high seas; she was flying high. But for some inexplicable reason, we find ourselves at the same bat time and same bat channel, with a new class of newcomers and retreads, seeking unity in our defects (see daily reflections for April 19th for context). And all the characters I just described are currently safe, sober, and sane. And that’s a gold stars all around condition. I had to fall in love with the program and the people.

So after a droll day working remotely where my only human contact was Webex calls with managers, product managers, and engineers, I was happy to sit with spiritual beings having a human experience in the same chair that I plopped myself into in January 2011 when I thought life was unraveling and possibly ending.

This is what happily ever after looks like in physical and emotional sobriety.




Life happens. The sudden happens. And I can’t be whining because my latest raise was only 5% and not the 25% that my alcoholic mind expected. I didn’t get that complimentary first-class or deluxe suite upgrade that my platinum elite ego craved. Or I have to suffer through the undersized Admiral’s club in AUS with a bunch of Californians.

A disease of perception.

[BearSchlong 8111]

But nope, it was the cycle of waiting to drink-drinking-waiting to drink-drinking-pretending I haven't been drinking-more drinking-regretting drinking-upset I am not still drinking. 

The mental obsession. “Next time I’m going to get it right, and it’s going to be pure bliss!”

[BearSchlong 8111]

So I went to the Black Bear diner at the truck stop for a Denver omelet, and as I was pulling out, I saw a lot lizard huddled near a parking lot light stanchion with what looked like two big plastic hefty bags full of her life.

And as I drove away, I thought the Christian, chivalrous action would be to stop to ask how I could be of service.

Maybe one day, when I’ve got generational Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation time and wealth, I’ll start a make-a-wish foundation like charity for lost souls.

[Basil 755]

Make that a trifecta.
The issue I have experienced with medication is that you don't necessarily know the good it's doing until you stop taking it, and when dealing with addiction, depression, or bipolar disorder, that is a risk.  
It's pretty easy to go off of blood pressure medication, experience some ill effects, and decide to go back on.  One can't safely predict with any certainty how the untreated mind will react if there is a mental illness, or how the untreated addict will respond. 
Akin to starting to feel so good that a recovered alcoholic puts their program and step work on the back burner or stops all together....forgetting to do what go them to the good place. That's a steep and slippery slope.
I know I'm not guaranteed a comeback if I let myself get too far down the path away from emotional (and eventually physical) sobriety.
The fuckin' stops when the gorilla is done with me.....I don't get to decide.

Well, sure, I’m not going to quit w/o talking to my doc. He originally wanted me on it for a minimum of three months. Last time I saw him I said I wanted to keep on it because everything was going well and getting better. So I kept up with it.

Now I’m starting to thinks about trying to get off all drugs and have been wondering what eliminating Wellbutrin may do to my day-to-day brain chemistry.

I’ve already been phased off blood pressure meds and naltrexone with my docs approval and direction. Wellbutrin is all that is left.

[Macanudo 13010]

I finally turned some kind of corner on replacing booze with sugar.   The cravings for sugar have slowed down and along with some other dietary changes I'm finally seeing some weight come off.   I have a long way to go before I'm anywhere close to where I want to be fitness wise but kicking that damn sugar monkey off my back has really helped.   I will hit 450 days sober next month and I find new ways that I appreciate that all the time.    

Keep on, keepin' on.

[YGIFS 19452]

That's awesome man.  You're a inspiration to some of us early on in our shit.  

I was warned continuously by friends and meeting-mates both that I'd go nuts with sugar.  I was never a 'sweet-tooth' but of course, I was with booze.  But I can literally months without candy or desert and years without a soda.  No sugar in my coffee, no sugar tonight in my tea.  I probably enjoy carbs a little too much food-wise, but nothing alarming.  I'm a meat with a side of meat and a salad kinda guy.  But then also, booze/wine.  I don't have enough clarity or track record yet though, but I look back and see weeks where I would drink like 3 gatorades (big ones) and a bunch M&M or chocolate bars or donuts.  And then a few weeks of nothing sweet/sugary.  and then ravenously attack them again for a week or two.  But again, not like a daily need for pie or soda or candy.  But like one weekend, just down a couple gatorades and a couple donuts and a couple bags of candy.  I don't know if it's blood sugar, mental, alcohol cravings, or what exactly it tracks alongside of, but it's weird.  I started upticking in weight about 2 weeks ago and noticed it, so I cut out any little sugar trips and I'm back down again.  I've plateau'd overall.  But to me the hypertension and mental/nerve shit is the most important focus to me.  I think regularly swimming again, which I did last summer when I first quit, will be another help.  I crave calories around swimming, but they're usually better for me than chugging gatorade and M&M's because of my pretend "active" lifestyle.  I dunno.  

I've been doing better on stepwork and writing and prayer and service in the last couple of weeks since I had a breakdown with y'all.  I gotta work that because come mid-May, we've got a shitton of family on both sides coming into town for daughter's first communion/birthday party.  And they're all nice, but none of them know what I'm doing right now (my mom and cousins kinda suspect it but they know the overall struggle, and her family thinks AA is for people who beat their wives and passed out at bars).  I don't want it to be a focal point.  They're all pretty much the kind what won't say shit if they don't see me with a drink in my hand.  I've seen almost all of them since I quit, so they have certainly experienced just non-drinking Lobo, but I don't think they got the depth of it.  But that's more than that, is all of them are a trigger for me.  Nice, loving people.  But my usual coping retreat cannot happen.  It's gonna be tough.  I'm gonna be slinking off to some zoom meetings and peer phone calls.  And probably to vent to y'all.  And then hopefully one day soon after mid-May, I can be there for you.  

[Basil 755]

I may or may not have had a giant donut from VooDoo and a chocolate milk for lunch a few times in the first three months.

[YGIFS 19452]

Oh man, I was just at this crypto deal this morning at some shit bar on Dirty Sixth.  And there was an actual bartender making bloody mary's and whatnot . And I wasn't even tempted, kinda proud of myself.  Maybe a little, but didn't even stop to stew on it.  but they had a spread of tacodeli tacos and voodoo donuts and I went to fucking town.  I am still in a good coma right now  two hours later.  And I think I may need my own toilet paper. 

I'm already worried about this weekend again.  I dunno why they've been so much tougher for me lately when the first several months, they were actually the easier part of the week.  

[Macanudo 13010]

1 hour ago, Basil said:

I may or may not have had a giant donut from VooDoo and a chocolate milk for lunch a few times in the first three months.

I was talking to my boss yesterday.  She's been sober since her mid 20's.  I made the comment that healthy eating and abstaining from alcohol have a lot in common.   You have to work your program, whataver that may be.   When it came to initially giving up booze, I compensated with ice cream, candy and other sweets.    Finally through that stage, I have moved back into being healthier.   I know how to lose weight in a healthy manner and keep it off.   But I have to work my program.   Just like what I have to do to remain sober. 

Now, extrapolate that to life in general.    

[YGIFS 19452]

Yeah, no kidding man.  If I could apply this mentality to every area of my life...I'd have it made in the shade.  Unfortunately, I don't know that  human is wired that way, let alone folks like us.  I remember for a hot minute when I got deep into finance, I would read books 'n shit and try to emulate these high achiever billionaires who had these gurus and life coaches and meditation retreats and regiments 'n shit.  And it worked for awhile.  And I'd pick it all back up again every few years.  And it'd drop off.  And I'd attend a seminar or retreat and then ignore it all for a couple years, over and over and over again.  

Turns out I was ignoring two huge factors in my head:

-I am a raging alcoholic.

-I tend to beat the living shit out of myself and almost enjoy the shittiness I hurl upon myself.  

I guess that's not good?  

I'm never gonna be able to be fully centered and healthy and happy, but I gotta stick with at least cutting this shit outta my life and my family's life.  The self-hate and the booze are just such a fucking beating now.  In two weeks time, I'm gonna be rambling like a dickhead on here more than usual.  If I can do anything for anybody before that, let me know.  It'll help the two of us.

[Devil Horn 17]

I had been on a 3 week bender because I was just tired and didn't care. I miss my wife severely, lost her to cancer. Easter was a trigger.It just hit me out of the blue.

I am about 40 hours from stopping completely and it is Hell. I'm starting to have some mild hallucinations of birds flying around my room.

I have been drinking sugar free powerade to keep me hydrated. 

Any ideas to get out of this? I've been to the hospital for this before. I don't want to be hours and hours waiting. 

I need a lift up.

[TwiceHorn 31534]

2 minutes ago, Devil Horn said:

I had been on a 3 week bender because I was just tired and didn't care. I miss my wife severely, lost her to cancer. Easter was a trigger.It just hit me out of the blue.

I am about 40 hours from stopping completely and it is Hell. I'm starting to have some mild hallucinations of birds flying around my room.

I have been drinking sugar free powerade to keep me hydrated. 

Any ideas to get out of this? I've been to the hospital for this before. I don't want to be hours and hours waiting. 

I need a lift up.

I'm guessing what you need, short of medical supervision, is a light dose of librium.  An urgent care might do it for you.

[Pig Bellmont 8736]

Call some friends 

[YGIFS 19452]

7 hours ago, Devil Horn said:

I had been on a 3 week bender because I was just tired and didn't care. I miss my wife severely, lost her to cancer. Easter was a trigger.It just hit me out of the blue.

I am about 40 hours from stopping completely and it is Hell. I'm starting to have some mild hallucinations of birds flying around my room.

I have been drinking sugar free powerade to keep me hydrated. 

Any ideas to get out of this? I've been to the hospital for this before. I don't want to be hours and hours waiting. 

I need a lift up.

By my count, you should be at 48 hours now, and hopefully on the way back down from the scary shit.  I am so sorry about your wife.  I know that doesn't do anything to help you, but just know that we get it.  We get you.  We get it.  

One simple thing to lower your heart-rate and blood pressure is to take a 15-20 minute hot shower.  And I mean hot.  As hot as you can stand it without burning your skin.  Take 2-3 per day for the next couple days.  And get outside.  Outside of your head.  But outside your home.  Yardwork, walk, anything.  Just be outside.  Nap if you can.  

Your sleep is probably still for shit.  I won't dispense any medication advice, not my forte.  Listen to the guys upthread.  

I likely have not had my last relapse yet which worries me.  But you have been through hell losing your wife and just know it will get better.  I don't know how.  I don't know when.  There's much to do be done down the road, but for today take care of yourself.  God bless.

[Kennythetiger 9455]

10 hours ago, Devil Horn said:

I had been on a 3 week bender because I was just tired and didn't care. I miss my wife severely, lost her to cancer. Easter was a trigger.It just hit me out of the blue.

I am about 40 hours from stopping completely and it is Hell. I'm starting to have some mild hallucinations of birds flying around my room.

I have been drinking sugar free powerade to keep me hydrated. 

Any ideas to get out of this? I've been to the hospital for this before. I don't want to be hours and hours waiting. 

I need a lift up.

Good morning. How is today going?  

[Etxhorn81 33]

10 hours ago, Devil Horn said:

I had been on a 3 week bender because I was just tired and didn't care. I miss my wife severely, lost her to cancer. Easter was a trigger.It just hit me out of the blue.

I am about 40 hours from stopping completely and it is Hell. I'm starting to have some mild hallucinations of birds flying around my room.

I have been drinking sugar free powerade to keep me hydrated. 

Any ideas to get out of this? I've been to the hospital for this before. I don't want to be hours and hours waiting. 

I need a lift up.

I can only emphasize with what you are dealing with. As a married man with no kids, losing my wife will be the single greatest tragedy I will ever suffer. 
 

i lost my mom this past August, and I still have moments daily. 
 

I was never an alcoholic, but struggled with addiction for years. There is no easy way out of it. 
 

Find a reason…..  Would your wife want your life to be this way?  
 

i turned everything in my life over to God and emersed myself in His word. It’s the only way I can put one foot in front of the other every day now. I may have traded one addiction for another with my faith, but it has changed my life for the better. 
 

i pray for everyone on this forum and the cancer forum each day as I have lived in the hell everyone is experiencing. I will ask for peace and understanding in your everyday life, and some sort of relief for your grief and addiction pains. 
 

People love you, even if it’s someone you don’t know. 

[YGIFS 19452]

Devil Horn,

 

Been thinking about you since I woke up this morning and started my day with this thread.  You should be at almost 52 hours.  That's not nothing.  I know it feels like a fucking cheese-grater right now, we've all been there.  I don't know shit about fuck, none of us do.  But if you login here this morning, just read a bit and go for a walk.  If you're here in Texas, it's a nice day all around the state.  And talk to somebody, anybody.  Somebody in recovery, your wife's family, call me if you're really into being annoyed   

Talk to someone, walk to somewhere, and do one nice thing for yourself today.  Eat a nice meal, meditate, watch a few episodes of a crappy TV series, go to church, go to a meeting, just something to get out of the cycle we all know too well.  Yes, drinking some more will take the edge off how you're feeling right now.  I've punted the inevitable more times than Michael Dickson.  You don't have to bring up your struggle today with somebody, but just talk to somebody about how much you miss your wife.  In hearing your own words, a bit of peace from her and god may wash over you.  I wish that for you brother.  Fuck, call me.  I have so many flaws but I'm actually a pretty good listener.  Or zoom a meeting and share for three minutes.  Or just take a "scam likely" call on your cell phone and just unload onto Juglesh, aka "Jimmy."  \

Just please man, don't do what I have done so many times, lay in bed in a constant circle of shit and falsification.  Easier said than done, I know.  But you are never, ever, ever as alone as you think you are.  

[Prepuce of Doom 21103]

Nick Cave has an ongoing thing where fans can email him questions or to talk about their troubles or whatever, and then he sends his response out via email list serve. 

Thought that the one from this morning was worth sharing here - hopefully the screencap is readable when enlarged. 

[YGIFS 19452]

Whew.  Big week this week.  How’s everybody doing?   
 

upthread I mentioned an old friend who is kind of a long distance sponsor.  Knew him from Florida and he is now in Seattle.  Really helped me out early on.  Fell off the face of the earth several weeks ago and I was really worried about him.  Happy to report we reconnected on Saturday.  And I really needed it as I was having a really tough fucking day.  He had a really bad relapse several weeks back and was hospitalized.  He’s going through outpatient stuff still.  Explains why I couldn’t reach him.  But felt good to listen and help and also unload some of my shit.  Hadn’t done that in awhile and need to recommit to more work.  Thanks folks. 
 

devilhorn—-hope you’re doing better today brother.  Chime in if you can even if it’s just to tell me to piss off

[irishtexan 11522]

So a few hours ago I received a text from a friend's wife. He got back from rehab about a month ago for the booze. His "recovery" has not gone well. He's relapsed four times and is now completely off the deep end. Been drinking morning, noon and night for four days straight as part of this particular relapse. According to wife, he's completely delusional. His arrogance and superiority complex is in full swing. He thinks he's better and smarter than everyone in his counseling and AA group. He's driving around drunk doing who knows what (that is a chief concern of hers). he won't listen to wife or immediate family (parents and siblings). Everyone's an asshole and he's the victim. He and his wife have two young kids. He's admitted he's an "addict" but his wife gets the sense that he thinks he can get his drinking under control. He's an artist by trade so he doesn't really have a "job" he can lose.

In about an hour, assuming he comes home from the lunch he's at with a friend (not supposed to be drinking but probably will be drinking vodka in his car), his wife is going to tell him that he has to move out and he either commit to a 90-day recovery (previous 30-day stint obviously didn't take) or he's gotta find another place to be because he's creating a toxic environment for his wife and kids. I used to be on a bowling team with this guy. That's how I know him. We would also go see rock shows together occasionally. She's asked me and two of our former bowling teammates to be there either before to tell him that we love him and care about his successful recovery. Or to be there after to support her and deliver the same message. She even said "i'll say what I have to say in front of y'all." I think she should talk to him first and then we come in as support. She said she doesn't want this to feel like an intervention, but it sure as shit feels like one to me.

I'm "pretty good" friends with this guy, but he's hardly in my inner circle. But I get the sense that he doesn't have a lot of friends and we might be his "best friends" in Austin. I actually haven't seen him since he got back from rehab a month ago. Texted when he got back and he said it was "a very good experience" and that's it. I thought I was giving him space to live a sober life and work on his recovery, but in hindsight I should have been more involved. But like I said, I didn't really see myself in his inner circle. Regardless, not sure that me having coffee with him every other week was going to prevent this. But who knows. 

One of the issues I foresee is I like to indulge in beers and bourbon myself. And he might try to pull the "who the hell are you to tell me I have a problem?!" shit. Any suggestions on how to be prepared for this meeting I have in 45 minutes? 

[YGIFS 19452]

Man, I don’t know what to tell you.  You’re probably on your way there now.  I wish some other folks from upthread would chime in.  You’re a good human being for trying.  You know the drill, don’t be combative.  I guess just show up and have the wife and kids’ back.  If he’s truly in the throes of a weeklong bender, maybe offer To take him to a hotel where he can dry out away from his family.  

[BearSchlong 8111]

He isn’t close to being done. See, the trick is you have to drink yourself sober. It has to stop working. He’s in the middle of a chemistry experiment. The trick is to reach the inevitable conclusion before overshooting the mark and either dying or hurting a civilian.

I’d recommend that his wife lawyer up pronto and go to Al Anon, for her children’s protection and her sanity.

As for your friend, offer to buy him a bottle of his favorite. That’s the only way to accelerate his becoming beaten into a state of reasonableness.

In the old days, before the proliferation of modern “spin dry” rehabs, the AA old timers would throw him a few bucks and tell him to go get drunk and return when he was actually ready for help. Then they would interrupt their own lives and go to any length to help the still suffering alcoholic recover. We still do.

Alcoholism is a self-diagnosed disease, and until you have it, you don’t. And when you realize you do, you have to take responsibility for recovery.

That’s harsh, I know. But alcoholism is pure insanity and negotiating with the insane is pointless.

[Brisketexan 105313]

I've buried more than a couple of folks who wrestled with the addiction demon, and the demon won.  About to have to bury another friend who has charged headlong into the same fate (MaybeaCoordinator).

My wife and I were discussing him this morning, and she commented that our experience with so many people who end up with the worst outcome makes us more in awe of the people in recovery.  And respect for them keeping that demon at bay every day, one day at a time, for the rest of their lives.

For those of you engaged with that demon here, respect and incredible admiration for you who have won the battle the previous days.  And respect for you fighting the battle again today.  And our hope for you continuing to fight it in the days to come.  You matter.  The world is better with you in it.  Please stay in it, as long as you can.

[Etxhorn81 33]

Just checking in. I read through the last page of the stickied thread and thought this should be bumped up. 
 

A lot of senseless sadness this week around our state, and rage seems to be the outlet some are choosing. Which is completely understandable. 
 

wanted to make sure no other methods were being used to ease pain, or if anyone needed to talk to keep from going down that path. 
 

i see devil horn hasn’t been on since his last post. I don’t find that as good news. 

[YGIFS 19452]

Yeah, complete gutpunch to hear about M.A.C.  Didn't know him but know some folks who did.  And he helped me digitally from time to time.  

As for DevilHorn, if anybody knows him---please reach out.  Support networks help but in the end, we are alone in this.  But at least a wellness check, he may just need some food and a shoulder to lean on.  I dunno.  It's different for everybody but it's also the exact fucking identical same.  

Heads up---gonna be on here a fuckton this weekend to look busy with so much family in town, but also to just vent and share.  Thanks ahead of time.  

[Celery Man 20996]

I felt like maybe MAC had popped in here since his first big health thing that came up on the board, but it doesn't look like he did. I try not to spend too much time remembering who popped in asking questions or not just as a... anonymity principal I guess. I'm sad I didn't try to get to know him better - I went deep into a Townes thing when I was in my fully drunk years. The rock I painted at La Hacienda had some... probably To Live is to Fly lyric on it. And MAC would drop some sort of thing about his family having been close or some other thing and I never pulled that thread. Sad for his kids. Sad for him. Getting sober was like a death and a rebirth, it's not trivial it's not easy. But it also kinda feels like... goddamn it you just need to kinda get it once and get a few lucky breaks and a win streak going and you can kinda get clear. Never free but clear and it doesn't seem as hard as it was in hindsight (inasmuch as there is a hindsight) and you look at it from that perspective and it's just a fuckin bummer for really good talented worthwhile people who just don't get there. It's almost sadder if their health goes completely vs if they nope out.

 

rest easy MAC

 

[YGIFS 19452]

Amen.  Thank you guys.  I need more help.  And let me help you.  

[BearSchlong 8111]

I've been tooling around AUS and DFW for the last 6 hours re-listening to Joe and Charlie and their book commentary.

It's just such an enduring gem.

[pch 1261]

4 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

I've been tooling around AUS and DFW for the last 6 hours re-listening to Joe and Charlie and their book commentary.

It's just such an enduring gem.
 

If you tool over to 3001 W. 5th in FW, let me know.  Still owe you a cup of our best 90 weight coffee and some good conversation prior to the 7am meeting.