I'm An Alcoholic

[YGIFS 19450]

^
Listen to this guy.  Good news and bad news-there is no fucking shortage of advice or expertise when it comes to our shit.  But BearSchlong encouraged me early on to try a variety of meetings.  So between my local place and zooming, I have tried several and it's really helped---but first thing's first, go to one.  I really haven't branched out much geographically, but certainly time of day makes a big difference as well.  I ended up knowing like 4 guys just at my 5:30p in real life.  And talk to others who may not be in the program but either have quit or are trying to quit.  Nobody's fixing anybody, but the rhythms are the key.  

I continue to be bored at times, but usually by myself.  I'm an avid fisherman and hiker, so I like being in nature.  But it was usually orchestrated times, but something that helped me was just walks or leisurely bike rides.  The brain re-wire is absolutely real and being alone and quiet within it can be helpful.  Then again, Texas is like living on the fucking sun right now so maybe talk therapy or knitting?    

[BearSchlong 8084]

Smh at this disease sometimes. God, I'm so glad I'm sober.

I've spent the better part of several years trying to share experience, strength and hope with my wife's distant familial connection who has been circling the drain.

While simultaneously trying to explain the insanity of alcoholism to his adoring wife. My last call with her I recommended that she “lawyer up, cut him off, get on your father’s jet, go somewhere peaceful and forget all about him before he kills you, nothing short of that, I'm serious.”

So he ends up in rehab(s), insanity ensues, he meets someone and runs off with her. At this point I'm hearing stories but I'm not really paying attention because I've seen this show before.

This morning I get a call, last night he had returned home (reason unknown) and per the security camera footage, he was walking up to her when she pulled her pistol and blew her brains out.

???????

[GhostOfTomJoad 9324]

If there's a silver lining about being between jobs (unexpectedly), it's looking at your old habits with new eyes. When I got the job elimination notice in late April I knew that we'd have to take a deep look at our spending and adjust accordingly in the event that I end up being under-employed or if I can't find a suitable job by year's end. 

Man, just being a "social drinker" and "meeting the gang at the pub for a pint or two" after work sure sounds innocuous. What? I was drinking 4, sometimes 5 days a week? How much money was I literally pissing away?

The friends certainly were understanding about the job situation. "Hey, this round is on us. Relax. Take your time finding a new job." After a few weeks of taking them up on their generosity I told them that the next drink I had at one of our hang outs would be one I bought myself after I had collected my first paycheck from my next job. Some thought I was joking. Or crazy. One in particular was DEEPLY concerned that I was TOO focused on my job search and not "getting enough social time and fresh air." This is the same friend who went through a similar situation when his job was eliminated from a Big Co about ten years ago. He's in his mid 60s now. Never went back to work. He's content with his pension & his wife slogging it out as a teacher to cover their insurance needs & some of their bar tab.

Gee. I sure do seem to have a lot of friends who drink pretty heavily. And when we meet up, it's almost exclusively at a pub or brewery or someone's backyard with a cooler full of beer always nearby. We've got other things in common than just drinking, right?  Most of us, anyway. They're all close friends & neighbors. Most are older than us. So their perspective is "oh, you're fine. Why, when I was your age I was staying out until...."

But we do have more in common than drinking. It's taken this break by me to see those common interests and friendships in a new light. Are you socializing or enabling? I'm looking at you, sport.

My beer fridge has been empty since mid-May. We don't have any wine/spirits in the house. My wife has the occasional lo-cal cider and I've shared a couple of those with her when trying to cool down from this heat on the weekend. So probably a total of a half dozen alcoholic drinks in the last 6 weeks vs the  2-3 beers I'd have when unwinding from work with the guys. A far cry from putting a big--sometimes entire--dent in a six pack of IPAs while smoking a brisket on a Saturday. Beer fridge is empty? Big deal. If so and so shows up to shoot the shit 'neath the patio cover and he didn't bring his own beer to drink he'll have to deal with water or Spindrift.

I'm not missing it. I've met the gang at a pub a few times while they did their usual and I drank water. My wife's grateful for the money we're saving, the couple of pounds I've shed, and my improved presence when I'm with her. Do I look forward to buying that round of beers with that next paycheck? You're damn right. But as a sense of accomplishment & pride. And it will be one round. Then I'll switch to water while I talk to my friends. Then go home to my wife. And continue to build upon what I'm learning through this experience. I don't have a problem drinking a beer or two now and then. But I do have a problem if I return to the mindset that my friendships are dependent upon my drinking alcohol with them whenever we meet up.

[BearSchlong 8084]

Smh at this disease sometimes. God, I'm so glad I'm sober.

I've spent the better part of several years trying to share experience, strength and hope with my wife's distant familial connection who has been circling the drain.

While simultaneously trying to explain the insanity of alcoholism to his adoring wife. My last call with her I recommended that she “lawyer up, cut him off, get on your father’s jet, go somewhere peaceful and forget all about him before he kills you, nothing short of that, I'm serious.”

So he ends up in rehab(s), insanity ensues, he meets someone and runs off with her. At this point I'm hearing stories but I'm not really paying attention because I've seen this show before.

This morning I get a call, last night he had returned home (reason unknown) and per the security camera footage, he was walking up to her when she pulled her pistol and blew her brains out.

???????

Wow. The obituary was finally posted today. Her alcoholic husband wasn't even included in the obituary, but the rest of the family was. And then this:

“If you or someone you know is involved in an abusive relationship, please reach out to the 24-hour Domestic Abuse safeline at 1-800-522-SAFE(7233), or, for a mental health crisis dial 988”

[RockyMountainHighHorn 890]

Had a close buddy of mine relapse and of course it had fent in it this week. Lost my last “grandparent” last week-great aunt that acted like a grandparent after all of mine passed. It’s been a tough couple of weeks, emotional to say the least. Glad to be sober through it and not have any of the temptations. I often wonder if I didn’t have actual prescribed medication for anxiety/depression how much better/worse this would be. Glad to hear some awesome success stories, don’t forget the terrible sad ones. 

[BearSchlong 8084]

I'm very sorry for your loss.

[hullabelew 3723]

On 7/3/2023 at 11:21 PM, BearSchlong said:

Wow. The obituary was finally posted today. Her alcoholic husband wasn't even included in the obituary, but the rest of the family was. And then this:

“If you or someone you know is involved in an abusive relationship, please reach out to the 24-hour Domestic Abuse safeline at 1-800-522-SAFE(7233), or, for a mental health crisis dial 988”

What a sad, sad story.  Peaceful thoughts to all in their circle.  

[Mikey4 2476]

This week marks 2 years without a drink. At this point, I'm fairly confident that I could enjoy a glass of wine with dinner every once in a while without relapsing. At the same time, I'm perfectly content not drinking, so no point in running the risk.

[closetohumping 17439]

Just going for a sober Saturday.  There are no positive benefits to this fucking drug

[closetohumping 17439]

I can’ drink beer all day.  When I have shots I become a maniac

Edited July 9, 2023 by closetohumping

[BearSchlong 8084]

Having difficulty controlling and enjoying your drinking? I know that feeling.

Pm me if you want, I’d love to chat about it. I land at 1 central and will have some drive time if you want to talk.

[Macanudo 12976]

I survived vacation with my family.  19 people together for the better part of 8 days.   A fair amount of family drama along with close quarters and I kept my cool.   Also managed to loose a little more weight.   All in all, a good trip and fun for all.   Several nights everyone was out our rental for dinner with the drinks flowing.   I was the only adult who didn't drink and it was super rewarding for me to be sober and not have to worry about my conduct.  

[hullabelew 3723]

Also, waking up, especially on the last day when you have to pack, and not having a hangover.  

[Macanudo 12976]

38 minutes ago, hullabelew said:

Also, waking up, especially on the last day when you have to pack, and not having a hangover.  

We had 3 early days of getting up before 6:00 a.m.   Two of those were at 4:30.    No hangover was a huge plus.

[Kennythetiger 9377]

8 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

We had 3 early days of getting up before 6:00 a.m.   Two of those were at 4:30.    No hangover was a huge plus.

Your family takes their reunions a lot more seriously than mine does. 

[Macanudo 12976]

3 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

Your family takes their reunions a lot more seriously than mine does. 

We did guided tours in Yellowstone two days and a 7:00 a.m. flight back home.   

[Reagan1k 3024]

15 hours ago, Macanudo said:

I survived vacation with my family.  19 people together for the better part of 8 days.

That's pretty cool.  I could not write down the names of 19 living relatives (even combining my wife's family)...much less cobble them together for a trip.

Hats off to you for maintaining that bond.  

[Kennythetiger 9377]

9 minutes ago, Reagan1k said:

That's pretty cool.  I could not write down the names of 19 living relatives (even combining my wife's family)...much less cobble them together for a trip.

Hats off to you for maintaining that bond.  

My grandmother gave birth to 19 children, and raised 17 to adulthood. We held holiday dinners in the school cafeteria. 

[Reagan1k 3024]

51 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

My grandmother gave birth to 19 children, and raised 17 to adulthood. We held holiday dinners in the school cafeteria. 

That's always been fascinating to me.  Through blood and marriage I only count five first cousins.  I couldn't tell you their spouses' names nor their children's names.

At times I've been insanely jealous over larger families.  At other times and when I see dysfunction, I am grateful for my small circle.

We all have different paths.

 

[YGIFS 19450]

This all hits close to home.  Got back from a long trip up north in the mountains to hike, fish, recreate with the kids.  Met up with wife's parents, 3 sisters, and their husbands (no other kids) for several days then made our way back to her hometown far east of there to see her lone surviving grandparent, some aunts, uncles, and cousins.  So sorta like a mini family-reunion.  First time I've been around all of them since I tried to quit drinking.  Wasn't as tough as I thought it'd be.  Wife doesn't know it, or doesn't accept it, but a bunch of her uncles and male cousins are raging drunks.  I had one challenging day on the whole trip so I was overall okay with myself.  

Anyway, got home earlier this week.  Talked with my mom because my half-sister who quit in April (she says) is still having serious fallout from it.  She lost an alarming amount of weight and is having trouble walking so she's starting PT today.  Our mother comes from 9 siblings who produced 23 grandchildren.  4 of those 23 grandkids and 2 of the 4 brothers died from complications of alcoholism (other factors in there as well).  1 of the surviving brothers has a problem, maybe not as bad as mine.  And I'd guesstimate that 7+ of us cousins have serious problems.  Probably for the best we don't have a family reunion.  But my mother is just now at 77 coming to terms with the fact that maybe it ran in our family.  I never used that as an excuse, most of us don't-at least those of us who've admitted we have a problem.  But I'm trying to give her and my BiL some guidance on how to help my sister.  In the end, it's her war to wage.  My mom, bless her heart, told my BiL, "Tell her if she doesn't stop, you're going to take the boy and leave her.  She'll respond to that, that boy is her whole world."  I rolled my eyes on the phone and had to tell her, "Mom, if it were that easy...there wouldn't be anybody at my AA meetings because every single one of us has been confronted with an ultimatum like that and still kept drinking."  I'm not very close with her (she's much older and a half-sibling), but she will listen to her husband (who I love like a brother) and my mother (sometimes)...so I'm trying to conveniently leave them some tips on how to get her to a meeting, service, etc.  It doesn't help that she just cannot get over the "but all my friends and family drink and they'll know I've got a problem if I don't have a drink in front of me."  So I told my mom I had the same hangups at first, and gave her an hour of stories of how at our age, nobody gives a shit.  People either won't notice, or they'll notice and just brush it off as you trying to get healthy, lose weight, don't wanna be hungover next day for something important, etc.  Nobody cares, and in fact---you'll see people come out of the woodwork without you asking that will reveal they are in recovery as well.  People you've been out with dozens of times.  

I think I've seen my mother drink maybe ten times in my whole life.  And she wasn't a closet drinker.  It ran in her family but it did skip quite a few, thankfully.  I was estranged from my father for most of the last decade of his life.  But apparently he started drinking heavily.  Runs more in his family than most, but it's not an overwhelming factor.  Cancer kills the most with mom's side, old age on dad's side.  This is all hand-wringing hindsight, but I do wish somebody would have taken me aside a long time ago and given me a heads up about the disease being somewhat hereditary.  Probably would have made the same bad choices but it's tough to unpack this shit in your 40's and have to explain to the older generations in your two families, "Hey, we may have to confront this so our children and grandchildren don't enter the world blind."  I just assumed all my uncles and older cousins were just having a fun time.  Turns out it was something much darker.  That's not why I am trying to stay dry, but it's also why I'm not dying to get a family reunion either.  

So I wrapped up my talk with mom by telling her that her daughter will not be able to do it for mom, or her son, or her husband.  That caught her off guard.  It took me awhile, and I'm still working on it, to realize it's about doing the work and recovery for yourself.  Whatever you need for temporary inspiration one day when you're down, great.  but overall, this isn't an 80's training montage.  It's a grind for the soul and hopefully the body tags along.

[Da Fino 2780]

1 hour ago, Kennythetiger said:

My grandmother gave birth to 19 children, and raised 17 to adulthood. We held holiday dinners in the school cafeteria. 

I didn't know such a thing was possible. Crazy. 

[Macanudo 12976]

30 minutes ago, Da Fino said:

I didn't know such a thing was possible. Crazy. 

19 children or school cafeteria family dinners?

[Al_4_ISU 12457]

42 minutes ago, Da Fino said:

I didn't know such a thing was possible. Crazy. 

Catholicism is a hell of a drug.

[Not a cat 5652]

5 hours ago, Kennythetiger said:

My grandmother gave birth to 19 children, and raised 17 to adulthood. We held holiday dinners in the school cafeteria. 

It's like the scene in Meaning of Life right before every sperm is sacred -the  mother is standing at the sink and a baby just falls out. 

 

[BearSchlong 8084]

On a plane right now headed to family beach vacation with wife, both kids, son’s wife and her parents and brothers and their wives/fiance's. 12, 7 of whom are aggy.

I've already done my recon and found 7am meetings in Wilmington NC which is where I'll visit while they sleep in. Sunday morning there is a sunrise meeting that supposedly is held on a gazebo on the beach overlooking the Atlantic.

AA in TX is a small world; I was at a speaker meeting in Lewisville on Monday and ran into a few guys who were visiting that I've known since my first summer of sobriety, we actually serve on the board of our home conference and they were friends of my dad for 29 years til he died sober.

And YGIFS genetics aren't an excuse but the modeled behavior carries weight. When I was a kid my dad was my hero, and as such I couldn't wait to get my very own 5pm tumblers full of ice and Dewar’s because in my impressionable mind that was completely normal behavior.

[YGIFS 19450]

Oh I know it's no excuse, it's one of the few things I never leaned on to enable my own shit.  Had plenty of other bullshit hole cards up my sleeve to justify shitty choices.  

My only point was I just wish my eyes were a little more open when I started down this path.  But everybody on mom's side who drank heavily thought it was totally normal and dad couldn't tell me anything because he was dead.  I was mostly going through that exercise with mom to demonstrate that all the usual shit she's been led to believe will work to curb heavy drinking is bullshit.  Threats, ultimatums, pacing one's self, surrounding yourself with fun drunks, the old timers held their liquor and lived a long time, all the shit we all passed around to each other.  It was just more lies to tell ourselves.  It's not a crutch, but the family angle did serve as a way for me to finally let my mom in on what I'm really doing and what I really went through, and am still going through.  Maybe I just wanted to vent, but she deserves to hear it because I am a bit different now and hopefully for the better.  And maybe she'll realize the approach she's taken with her daughter won't work anymore.  We even got into talking about her and my BiL going to Alanon to get a sense of the program.  Just to hear other people talk out loud about the stuff the two of them cry about in the dark regarding my sister.  I dunno, I'm still in no position to help anybody but I want to try to help them help her at least. 

I was also fortunate in a lot of friends and neighbors all in myriad stages of recovery, and you salty bastards, and a good home chapter literally around the corner.  I'm extremely private in real life, but something in the higher power just clicked and more than a handful of people just 'emerged' that had always been in my life to share with me what they went through and continue to go through.  People i knew and trusted for other reasons in life.  The work is mine alone, but everything worthwhile in life is made at least a little bit better when you can look to both sides and see a friendly face plowing ahead with you.    

[closetohumping 17439]

13 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

On a plane right now headed to family beach vacation with wife, both kids, son’s wife and her parents and brothers and their wives/fiance's. 12, 7 of whom are aggy.

I've already done my recon and found 7am meetings in Wilmington NC which is where I'll visit while they sleep in. Sunday morning there is a sunrise meeting that supposedly is held on a gazebo on the beach overlooking the Atlantic.

AA in TX is a small world; I was at a speaker meeting in Lewisville on Monday and ran into a few guys who were visiting that I've known since my first summer of sobriety, we actually serve on the board of our home conference and they were friends of my dad for 29 years til he died sober.

And YGIFS genetics aren't an excuse but the modeled behavior carries weight. When I was a kid my dad was my hero, and as such I couldn't wait to get my very own 5pm tumblers full of ice and Dewar’s because in my impressionable mind that was completely normal behavior.

 

13 hours ago, YGIFS said:

Oh I know it's no excuse, it's one of the few things I never leaned on to enable my own shit.  Had plenty of other bullshit hole cards up my sleeve to justify shitty choices.  

My only point was I just wish my eyes were a little more open when I started down this path.  But everybody on mom's side who drank heavily thought it was totally normal and dad couldn't tell me anything because he was dead.  I was mostly going through that exercise with mom to demonstrate that all the usual shit she's been led to believe will work to curb heavy drinking is bullshit.  Threats, ultimatums, pacing one's self, surrounding yourself with fun drunks, the old timers held their liquor and lived a long time, all the shit we all passed around to each other.  It was just more lies to tell ourselves.  It's not a crutch, but the family angle did serve as a way for me to finally let my mom in on what I'm really doing and what I really went through, and am still going through.  Maybe I just wanted to vent, but she deserves to hear it because I am a bit different now and hopefully for the better.  And maybe she'll realize the approach she's taken with her daughter won't work anymore.  We even got into talking about her and my BiL going to Alanon to get a sense of the program.  Just to hear other people talk out loud about the stuff the two of them cry about in the dark regarding my sister.  I dunno, I'm still in no position to help anybody but I want to try to help them help her at least. 

I was also fortunate in a lot of friends and neighbors all in myriad stages of recovery, and you salty bastards, and a good home chapter literally around the corner.  I'm extremely private in real life, but something in the higher power just clicked and more than a handful of people just 'emerged' that had always been in my life to share with me what they went through and continue to go through.  People i knew and trusted for other reasons in life.  The work is mine alone, but everything worthwhile in life is made at least a little bit better when you can look to both sides and see a friendly face plowing ahead with you.    

Yep.  I have a habit (pun intended) of doing that as well.  Time to own my shit.  Is it a cop out if I say I'm ok if I don't do shots>

[YGIFS 19450]

I don't know if "cop out" is the right term.  Ask the old timers here.  On the one hand, you gotta start somewhere.  On the other, it's a tricky 3-card monte we play with our own brains.  I had to stop everything, a few relapses aside. 

I have a goofy G.I. issue from ulcers down low to GERD in the upper from just other shit in life (booze certainly didn't help).  I literally can't drink but 2-3 beers before the carbonation literally locks everything up and I just spit up any other liquid or chest tightens up so much, I couldn't sip liquor to save my life.  So that part was the easiest.  But I could put away wine like nobody's business, that had to stop.  Just couldn't sit an enjoy 1-2 glasses with my wife, had to let the wheels fall off back at home.  And then liquor, quit the brown stuff since it also aggrivated my GI shit, so a few years ago discovered the wonderful world of vodka.  I'm put a rumor of a club soda/ice/lemon in it, but it was basically just vodka.  Didn't burn like the bourbon or red wine or beer.  

Dunno the point of my story, but yeah---if you can cut out shots---that's probably just a good idea because our age anyway.  Some people have to go cold turkey, some have to ease off, some need benzos.  I am in no place to make recs, but yeah-there are folks who just need to ease off, cut back, be healthier, and drink responsibly.  Took me awhile to realize, I am not one of those people.  

One thing I like about my support group that really resonates with me is we all have the same endgoal, how we got to where we are now and how we get to that endgoal are as varied and different as the stars in the night sky...but we are all crawling to the same point.  

My only point of warning, and I speak from serious experience is totally cool to set goals to cut this out or cut that back.  But keep an eye on your withdrawals after you make those big shifts.  That was my red alert.  I was high functioning, no violence, high tolerance, in control, and still able to exercise and lose weight.  It was when I'd quit for long periods of time, that's when I knew something was rotten in Denmark.  I could stand on my head for a month with no shots or no beer.  It was when I came down and tried to resume sober life that I got real fucking sideways real fucking quick.  Stick to your goals, but be objective about the wake it leaves.  And Zoom a meeting, no skin off your back.......get out of this little echo chamber and sure as shit-get outta your own head.

Edited July 13, 2023 by YGIFS

[JohnnyRage 1617]

On 7/8/2023 at 9:47 PM, closetohumping said:

Just going for a sober Saturday.  There are no positive benefits to this fucking drug

This, to me, is just the inverse of a pledge to go out and ‘enjoy’ 1 or 2 drinks.

What’s the f’ing point?

One Saturday ain’t fixing jack shit. It’s probably actually unhealthy. A couple of weeks, a month, six months - at least those amounts of time allow for some healing and separation, hopefully gaining distance from the hamster wheel of insanely doing it all over again.

If you are having diminishing returns and consequences, a sane person would simply put it down. Problem solved. But for some of us it’s not quite so easy, still simple, but sure as fuck not easy. It’s ok to ask for help.

 

God bless. Whatever that means to you.

[closetohumping 17439]

52 minutes ago, JohnnyRage said:

This, to me, is just the inverse of a pledge to go out and ‘enjoy’ 1 or 2 drinks.

What’s the f’ing point?

One Saturday ain’t fixing jack shit. It’s probably actually unhealthy. A couple of weeks, a month, six months - at least those amounts of time allow for some healing and separation, hopefully gaining distance from the hamster wheel of insanely doing it all over again.

If you are having diminishing returns and consequences, a sane person would simply put it down. Problem solved. But for some of us it’s not quite so easy, still simple, but sure as fuck not easy. It’s ok to ask for help.

 

God bless. Whatever that means to you.

So over the last twenty years there’s been maybe five saturdays where I haven’t had a drink.  That post was my way of saying shits gotta stop now and I’m going to quit on my favorite drinking day.  I did have 1 drink on Monday but that’s been it since then. I’m sure the op was confusing 

[Texzilla58 4733]

I didn't know such a thing was possible. Crazy. 

My grandmother was one of 14. Her aunt had 21. Limestone County Texas.

[Kennythetiger 9377]

On 7/12/2023 at 1:58 PM, Not a cat said:

It's like the scene in Meaning of Life right before every sperm is sacred -the  mother is standing at the sink and a baby just falls out. 

 

She died in her own home just short of her 95th birthday. Tough old bird. ❤️

[ChuckNorrisActionJeans 2663]

ah the good old days when there was little to no access to contraception and also, marital rape was a-ok 

[YGIFS 19450]

I was and am still against prohibition, but I coulda sorta see their point back then.  We were clearly moving away from an agrarian society to a manufacturing and even brain-powered one in the early 1900's.  But drunken men kept beating their wives into giving up some ass in order to make more kids he couldn't feed.  It was kind of a problem.  

I mean, we all still have a problem...but it's more chemical and mental as opposed to, "Nobody tells me I've had too much to drink, woman!  Now take off your petticoat and grow me an heir!"  At least I don't think I ever did that.  Admittedly, I have had a few blackout night.

[BabaYaga 15290]

On 7/13/2023 at 10:09 AM, YGIFS said:

My only point of warning, and I speak from serious experience is totally cool to set goals to cut this out or cut that back.  But keep an eye on your withdrawals after you make those big shifts.  That was my red alert.  I was high functioning, no violence, high tolerance, in control, and still able to exercise and lose weight.  It was when I'd quit for long periods of time, that's when I knew something was rotten in Denmark.  I could stand on my head for a month with no shots or no beer.  It was when I came down and tried to resume sober life that I got real fucking sideways real fucking quick.

Were there physical symptoms or was it psychological (or both)?

[YGIFS 19450]

33 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Were there physical symptoms or was it psychological (or both)?

there were/are some psychological symptoms.  From muscle memory habits to wanting to "engage the time machine" and just fast forward through a shitty day and not face reality.  Here's a cruel paradox with alcoholism:  Some problem drinkers over-indulge when they're in a good mood, other problem drinkers over-indulge when they're in a bad mood.  And they somehow stick to their camps.  Then there's us, if the Sun rose in the East and there's no emergencies with the kids or at work...time to over-indulge!  Didn't matter my mood, just plow through to the next day.  Like I've said upthread, despite my persona on here-I'm pretty quiet and private in real life so me slinking off to be alone was nothing new to myself or my loved ones.  I'd go tinker outside/garage, go swim, fish, or write. 

But then about 10 years ago, I started adding alcohol into that "retreat/me time."  And I was handling the booze part well (not well as in 'wellness', just not the most obvious fall-down drunk in the room is all).  And I'd stop here and there for a week, sometimes a month.  And then right back to the usual routine.  But about 3-4 years ago, the withdrawals starting getting tougher.  Not medical grade, but noticeable.  And they were few and far between.  Then 12-18 months ago, they got real fucking weird and real fucking frequent. 

The psychological symptoms for me were waking up with the same eerie shit rolling around my head.  Looking around for triggers that were there to ignore, and looking around to invent new ones.  And the justification circles you put your brain through, it starts to drive you a little mad.  To your question about physical symptoms, it was all over the place.  Very first thing I notice was sleep patterns completely turned upside down.  Some shakiness, which was compounded by a nerve injury I had in my right arm working out last year.  Appetite gets weird, you go a couple of days without eating to avoid dry heaving.  And then another day, you can gorge 3,500 calories.  And my biggest worry was my blood pressure.  It was already running a bit high (yellow zone) due to some serious stress with one of our daughters who is having some medical issues and of course, work/finances.  And our marriage had been suffering through the silent killers-communication and money (nothing loud like adultery or abuse)---and I'm sure the drinking did not help.  But when I'd stop for more than a day, I'd start running extremely high on BP.  And I tried to ween off, but the physical symptoms were just dominating my attention span.  So 54 weeks ago, I decided it was time.  If not drinking felt even physically worse to me than drinking, I would be stuck in a caustic loop of shit for the rest of what will probably be a rather short lifespan.  Waking up on Sunday mornings before church and trying to quietly dry heave in the wash closet before everybody else came downstairs, that doesn't have a "pace myself" kinda ending.  So there's been a handful of relapses, one of which I recalled on here upthread.  1 was particularly bad in the moment, like a few drinks just caught up with me like a ton of bricks and I just got all slo-motion groggy before sunset, but woke up and felt fine.  But one other one, did fine with the booze and immediate aftermath.  But about 36 hours afterwards, my blood pressure/heart rate shot into the Kenny Loggins danger zone.  Had to wait it out in an ER parking lot.  Looking back on the small batch of relapses, they came at arbitrary times, some good times, some bad times, some pre-planned, some happened organically.  But I've noticed they came at times I was lacking on my work on my problem.  I wasn't trying to outsmart the proven methods, I just didn't keep it centered is all.  And I've got just enough experience behind me now that I realize there are days alcohol literally does not cross my mind, there are days where I game out in my head a half dozen times ways I can go quietly drink with no one the wiser, and most days are in between.  But I only know what kind of day it is once it's over.  I gotta start it out (and the week, and the month, and the second year) with more proactive focus on working at it and taking advantage of the resources around me.  There are some days where the work just gets away from you.  You didn't avoid it consciously, just real life got in the way and you somehow, conveniently, didn't think about drinking and your body went along for the ride.  But again, you don't know those days until they are in the rear view mirror.  But when you're puking bile or nothing at all, heart rate literally wakes you up in the middle of REM sleep, shaky arm, bruises not healing, orange piss, and your jaw is acting all fucking weird...all from not drinking, instead of from drinking............................and your grand solution is to get through that day and then slink off the next day and grab some hooch.  Took me awhile to realize, I can't be that person anymore.  Some people can only do it a couple years, some for many decades, I was somewhere in the middle (~10 years).  When the merry-go-round of booze/sobriety just turns into a giant fucking cheese-grater....time to get off, for me at least. 

I just got my labwork done for "one year", I told them about the relapses but all in all should serve for a pretty good comparison for where I was a year ago and now.  BP is drastically different, weight is down about 30-35 pounds (change in diet had a lot to do with that as well).  G.I. stuff is tracking better, not great, but better.  And then get another batch of organ news later this month.  I know it won't be great, I just want some tiny level of improvement.  Psychologically?  I had to take another batter of tests for a portfolio company that does a great deal of work with the DoD and two space related agencies, plus a few allied governments.  And then another workup/background by FBI/DPS for a project related to UT.  I told them both up front, when they ask about life changes/drug use/stress triggers/etc., that I had quit drinking last year and was still going through some mental recaliberating.  Apparently passed with flying colors since I got all my clearances renewed, one even with a slight upgrade.  A guy made a passing comment to me that people are more forthright about addiction and mental illness these days and it helps them look for irregularities in your testing.  And that a lot of people are in recovery, more than we realize.  Goes back to what I've said before, the help and advocacy that just comes outta the woodwork is amazing.  People just somehow know, without getting preachy or nosey, that you're working through it and they've been at it too and want to help.  Same guy on the way out of the debrief told me, "And you're on the finance side?"  I didn't want to talk about all the other weird shit I have to do with other portfolio companies since I was leaving on a high note so I just said, "Yessir, for the most part.  Why do you ask?"  Him (staring intently at my testing summary), "Hmmm?  Oh, no reason.  Not good or bad....just different."  And he shuts the door on me.   

tl;dr---only advice I got today is pay even more attention to the non-drinking times as you do to the drinking times.  Your body will give you obvious clues.  Just gotta set your brain to "receive"  Easier said than done.  

[BabaYaga 15290]

3 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

only advice I got today is pay even more attention to the non-drinking times as you do to the drinking times.  Your body will give you obvious clues.  Just gotta set your brain to "receive"  Easier said than done.  

Got blackout drunk yesterday.  Never happened to me before and it scared the shit out of me.  Always been a social drinker.  Few drinks every night after a long day, then early to bed early to rise.  Never had the vampiric "thirst" or "need", just working from home now FT gives me the opportunity.   When I quit dipping a few days turned into a few weeks, which turned into a few weeks, and so on.  I'm going to go down that same path.

Good luck to everyone

[YGIFS 19450]

None of my business, but pay attention to 12-48 hours after your last drink.  If it's just a hangover because you don't over-indulge often, that's one thing.  Surely you're old enoguh to power through one of those.  But if it gets out of the ordinary (extended dry-heaves, shakiness, serious mental fog beyond the 'I don't remember what I said to Sheila last night', heart racing, hot/cold flashes, trouble sleeping, etc.)-pay serious attention to that.  If it was just a one-off black-out, don't sweat it.  But at least your antenna is up.  I've never dispensed an ounce of medical advice in my life, other than if somebody asks what's been working for me lately.  But part of our recovery is sharing, and I don't really do that at the meetings (I do in 1:1's), so you poor bastards are stuck with me in that regard.  But man, I wish somebody had told me a few years ago, "Pay close attention to your drinking.  But pay life-altering attention to when you're not drinking...it's just as scary and worrisome and you're completely lucid for it so it drags you down even faster and in a deeper panic. 

Again, just leaving this here...no idea your situation.  But Zoom a meeting out of choice not out of necessity.  No skin off your back, listen with headphones and your camera off (just write your first name).  Just listen, you can even skip the prayers and recitings and all that and just listen to the sharing portions.   

[closetohumping 17439]

55 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Got blackout drunk yesterday.  Never happened to me before and it scared the shit out of me.  Always been a social drinker.  Few drinks every night after a long day, then early to bed early to rise.  Never had the vampiric "thirst" or "need", just working from home now FT gives me the opportunity.   When I quit dipping a few days turned into a few weeks, which turned into a few weeks, and so on.  I'm going to go down that same path.

Good luck to everyone

I've been having black out drunk moments. I keep referencing shots, but when I mix shots and booze, I'm not myself.  I get agitated and confrontational with friends and family.  If I'm having a few bourbons while watching tv, I am very normal.

 

I need to change.  I'm making progress.  Working on this shit.

[BabaYaga 15290]

6 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I need to change.  I'm making progress.  Working on this shit.

New thread motto!

Keep it up.  I'm on the path now as well and will keep grinding

[BabaYaga 15290]

3 hours ago, YGIFS said:

None of my business, but pay attention to 12-48 hours after your last drink.  If it's just a hangover because you don't over-indulge often, that's one thing.  Surely you're old enoguh to power through one of those.  But if it gets out of the ordinary (extended dry-heaves, shakiness, serious mental fog beyond the 'I don't remember what I said to Sheila last night', heart racing, hot/cold flashes, trouble sleeping, etc.)-pay serious attention to that.  If it was just a one-off black-out, don't sweat it.  But at least your antenna is up.  I've never dispensed an ounce of medical advice in my life, other than if somebody asks what's been working for me lately.  But part of our recovery is sharing, and I don't really do that at the meetings (I do in 1:1's), so you poor bastards are stuck with me in that regard.  But man, I wish somebody had told me a few years ago, "Pay close attention to your drinking.  But pay life-altering attention to when you're not drinking...it's just as scary and worrisome and you're completely lucid for it so it drags you down even faster and in a deeper panic. 

Again, just leaving this here...no idea your situation.  But Zoom a meeting out of choice not out of necessity.  No skin off your back, listen with headphones and your camera off (just write your first name).  Just listen, you can even skip the prayers and recitings and all that and just listen to the sharing portions.   

I actually felt fine this morning.  Was up at 6am when wife took daughter to cross country practice.  Had 2-3 cups of coffee and farted around on my phone.  Worked on all morning, even went to the gym - hit it hard then into the sauna for 20 minutes.  Lots of ice water obviously.  More than anything it's not being in control.  Last night I was not.  Had something happened?  Had there been an accident or something where I was needed, I was AWOL and don't even remember what happened.  That's what will never happen again....

[Kennythetiger 9377]

6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

That's what will never happen again....

“I can’t say that I’ll never drink again. What I CAN say is that I’m pretty sure… that I’m not going to drink for the rest of today.”
-Hullabelew’s friend 
 
 

[BabaYaga 15290]

2 minutes ago, Kennythetiger said:

“I can’t say that I’ll never drink again. What I CAN say is that I’m pretty sure… that I’m not going to drink for the rest of today.”
-Hullabelew’s friend 
 
 

Good point - but I can try and control what I can control.  Last night, I fucking could have controlled that and I didn't.  That's on me.  

[Kennythetiger 9377]

4 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

Good point - but I can try and control what I can control.  Last night, I fucking could have controlled that and I didn't.  That's on me.  

Yeah, I wasn’t trying to discourage you at all- that is just a quote that I think about a lot from a podcast. 

[Dewey 3286]

The seventh step reminds me to take a step back and chill. It's the only thing I like about this time a year. I'm not good at it, every day I get twisted, whether it's a younger lady or a jackass at work, or both. I try, I like the idea of being a humble person. 

[Celery Man 20934]

5 hours ago, BabaYaga said:

Good point - but I can try and control what I can control.  Last night, I fucking could have controlled that and I didn't.  That's on me.  

If you notice a pattern where you continue to fail to control despite your intention to do so, it may be time to consider if you can't. I don't think that that's where you're at/that's not how I'm reading what you've said, but that's literally step 1. No power, can't control it, time to give up completely.

I had half a thought today about how.... recovery is both the hardest thing in the world and the easiest thing. Many or most of us here have been through it and know about how hard it is. But so much of what makes it hard is our inability to just throw in the goddamn towel and give up altogether. Not just "I'm giving up drinking I'll never drink again pinky swear" but even giving up the idea that you know fuck all about how you should go about doing that and just doing the things that the other people tell you to do. Completely dismantling your resistance to other people running the show for a bit and just relaxing all of those mental muscles that we as alcoholics tend to keep clenched tight. And just roll with it.

Like I said, half a thought. I could probably think that through some more and come up with something tidy, but letting go, giving up, ceasing to resist, and just rolling with it. It helped to be able to press pause for a bit and work on doing that.

I got some kinda bad news today, although it's a weird kind of bad news. My mom and both of her sisters died of cancer in their 40s and 50s (that's not the news) - breast and ovarian. One of my sisters does not have the gene, but one does and is going through the double mastectomy/hysterectomy process currently. I went to get screened and got the result back today, and I have it. Which, is not a huge thing for me - I need to watch out for pancreatic, I need to go get the anal gopro thing soon, but really it's this... well fuck now there's a 50/50 coin flip if my daughter has it and I won't know about that for another 18-20 years. And maybe she'll have to go through what my sister is going through. This is a weird thread to share that in and obviously I've had my wife to talk to about it, but it's just some of that let go/serenity stuff I'm working with today that is a bit different than the normal run of the mill stuff.

[Kennythetiger 9377]

22 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

If you notice a pattern where you continue to fail to control despite your intention to do so, it may be time to consider if you can't. I don't think that that's where you're at/that's not how I'm reading what you've said, but that's literally step 1. No power, can't control it, time to give up completely.

I had half a thought today about how.... recovery is both the hardest thing in the world and the easiest thing. Many or most of us here have been through it and know about how hard it is. But so much of what makes it hard is our inability to just throw in the goddamn towel and give up altogether. Not just "I'm giving up drinking I'll never drink again pinky swear" but even giving up the idea that you know fuck all about how you should go about doing that and just doing the things that the other people tell you to do. Completely dismantling your resistance to other people running the show for a bit and just relaxing all of those mental muscles that we as alcoholics tend to keep clenched tight. And just roll with it.

Like I said, half a thought. I could probably think that through some more and come up with something tidy, but letting go, giving up, ceasing to resist, and just rolling with it. It helped to be able to press pause for a bit and work on doing that.

I got some kinda bad news today, although it's a weird kind of bad news. My mom and both of her sisters died of cancer in their 40s and 50s (that's not the news) - breast and ovarian. One of my sisters does not have the gene, but one does and is going through the double mastectomy/hysterectomy process currently. I went to get screened and got the result back today, and I have it. Which, is not a huge thing for me - I need to watch out for pancreatic, I need to go get the anal gopro thing soon, but really it's this... well fuck now there's a 50/50 coin flip if my daughter has it and I won't know about that for another 18-20 years. And maybe she'll have to go through what my sister is going through. This is a weird thread to share that in and obviously I've had my wife to talk to about it, but it's just some of that let go/serenity stuff I'm working with today that is a bit different than the normal run of the mill stuff.

Watch out for your cornhole, Bud. 

[Reagan1k 3024]

On 7/17/2023 at 10:06 PM, Celery Man said:

Like I said, half a thought. I could probably think that through some more and come up with something tidy, but letting go, giving up, ceasing to resist, and just rolling with it. It helped to be able to press pause for a bit and work on doing

It’s an obvious oxymoron, but for a drunk like me there is power in surrender. As long as I fight “X”  (booze, people, circumstances, whatever) I give X power. When I cease fighting, I take the air out of the ballon and am able to just be.  Staying surrendered is what the steps, sponsorship, and service help me to achieve.

Most guys like me were taught to fight harder, never give up, pick myself up and get back in the game.  That serves me well until it doesn’t.  Identifying when tenacity is positive trait and when it’s a character defect (and deadly) is a key to my program.  Proper use of will power and the proper use of surrender are a delicate balancing act.  I guess some people naturally have that skill.  I have to surround myself with people to help me do that and stay in a program that constantly helps me get back on that thin beam of serenity in the face of both calamity and prosperity. 

[JohnnyRage 1617]

Bump

 

 

 

[Celery Man 20934]

No34.