I'm An Alcoholic

[Harrison Stafford 3,335]

I’ve been drinking a lot on top of taking Lunesta and that combination put me in the ER Saturday morning as I was unresponsive when my wife tried to wake me. So, per the ER doctor and my PCP no more sleeping pills and no more alcohol. I’ve used alcohol as a crutch to deal with chronic pain and as a sedative allowing me to sleep. Then, I’d wake up in the middle of the night, unable to get back to sleep unless I drank more.  My blood alcohol level in the ER was .345.   Something like this had to happen forcing me to modify my behavior, so I don’t wake up dead.  My blood alcohol level in the ER was .345.  I knew this day of reckoning would come.  I’m just glad I’m alive to see it.

[pch 1,259]

3 minutes ago, Harrison Stafford said:

I’ve been drinking a lot on top of taking Lunesta and that combination put me in the ER Saturday morning as I was unresponsive when my wife tried to wake me. So, per the ER doctor and my PCP no more sleeping pills and no more alcohol. I’ve used alcohol as a crutch to deal with chronic pain and as a sedative allowing me to sleep. Then, I’d wake up in the middle of the night, unable to get back to sleep unless I drank more.  My blood alcohol level in the ER was .345.   Something like this had to happen forcing me to modify my behavior, so I don’t wake up dead.  My blood alcohol level in the ER was .345.  I knew this day of reckoning would come.  I’m just glad I’m alive to see it.

Glad you came to.  A lot of us never regain consciousness and lose the battle with the bottle.  Your BAC tells me you qualify as someone who can't stop once you start drinking and you are correct to realize that you are now at a turning point.  There are a lot of us here on this thread that are willing to share our experience which is not unlike yours in many respects.  Feel free to message me if I can be of any help to you finding the solution to your alcohol problem.

[Harrison Stafford 3,335]

5 minutes ago, pch said:

Glad you came to.  A lot of us never regain consciousness and lose the battle with the bottle.  Your BAC tells me you qualify as someone who can't stop once you start drinking and you are correct to realize that you are now at a turning point.  There are a lot of us here on this thread that are willing to share our experience which is not unlike yours in many respects.  Feel free to message me if I can be of any help to you finding the solution to your alcohol problem.

Thank you for your offer of support and don’t be surprised if you hear from me. My doctor said I’m going through a washing out period and the alcohol cravings could return bigly in 2 1/2 to 3 weeks.  In the evening, automatically, I want to reach for the bottle….,but I also want to stay alive.  I’m embarrassed and ashamed for keeping this from my wife who has been >extremely< understanding since Saturday.  Now, she wakes up in the middle of the night and reaches over to touch me to make sure I’m not out of bed and drinking (and I’m cognizant enough now to feel that).  This morning, she asked where I was keeping the bottles because she had looked all over the house and couldn’t find them. As it played out, I killed the last bottle before ending up in the ER.  I have to regain her trust and will do whatever I need to do to make that happen.

[Frank Drebin 5,660]

1 hour ago, Harrison Stafford said:

I’ve been drinking a lot on top of taking Lunesta and that combination put me in the ER Saturday morning as I was unresponsive when my wife tried to wake me. So, per the ER doctor and my PCP no more sleeping pills and no more alcohol. I’ve used alcohol as a crutch to deal with chronic pain and as a sedative allowing me to sleep. Then, I’d wake up in the middle of the night, unable to get back to sleep unless I drank more.  My blood alcohol level in the ER was .345.   Something like this had to happen forcing me to modify my behavior, so I don’t wake up dead.  My blood alcohol level in the ER was .345.  I knew this day of reckoning would come.  I’m just glad I’m alive to see it.

That's really scary.  Good luck to you.  I quit drinking more than two years ago. All aspects of life are better without booze.  There are probably people on here who can help you a lot more than me.  I read Allen Carr's quitting drinking the Easy Way.  It worked for me.

[Dewey 3,286]

That was who I used to be, waking up early because alcohol got me up, started drinking, send the wife off to work, couple more drinks, pass out. Wake up around 9-10am and start again. Rinse, repeat, all through the day. 

Harrison Stafford, I hope you get the help you need. It will not be an easy ride, but one that is accomplished mostly just by "hanging in there", not giving up. The best thing I ever did was to open up, open my mind to whatever was out there, if it worked for others, surely it will work for me. And it did. 6.5 years without a drink. 

I wish you all the best, I hope as time goes on you feel better and better. 

Holler if you need anything 

[BearSchlong 8,083]

Thank you for your offer of support and don’t be surprised if you hear from me. My doctor said I’m going through a washing out period and the alcohol cravings could return bigly in 2 1/2 to 3 weeks.  In the evening, automatically, I want to reach for the bottle….,but I also want to stay alive.  I’m embarrassed and ashamed for keeping this from my wife who has been >extremely

Checking in. Unlike some heavy drinkers that show up in this forum from time to time, there's no way in hell I could stay stopped without the sober mafia of Alcoholics Anonymous.

My goodness I loved drinking. I didn't want to stop. But like a punch in the face the disease made it plain that I had to choose which I loved more, drinking or breathing.

Quitting is easy, and Harrison if you can abruptly put it down without difficulty then my hat is off to you. I always had a problem staying stopped. My brain forgets the bad stuff, and inevitably I’d start looking for excuses to escape and drink. My chemistry experiment lasted 22 years before I was ready to tap out.

Please PM me your number if you want to talk, I love talking about recovery.

[YGIFS 19,449]

On 5/22/2024 at 4:32 PM, Harrison Stafford said:

Thank you for your offer of support and don’t be surprised if you hear from me. My doctor said I’m going through a washing out period and the alcohol cravings could return bigly in 2 1/2 to 3 weeks.  In the evening, automatically, I want to reach for the bottle….,but I also want to stay alive.  I’m embarrassed and ashamed for keeping this from my wife who has been >extremely< understanding since Saturday.  Now, she wakes up in the middle of the night and reaches over to touch me to make sure I’m not out of bed and drinking (and I’m cognizant enough now to feel that).  This morning, she asked where I was keeping the bottles because she had looked all over the house and couldn’t find them. As it played out, I killed the last bottle before ending up in the ER.  I have to regain her trust and will do whatever I need to do to make that happen.

I've been there and may be again.  I wish you all the best brother.  Listen to these old-timers.  They got me started on my path, along with some real life friends.  You gotta start somewhere.  

It's a beaten cliche, but it's fucking damn true.  There will be weeks, sometimes months even, that go by you don't even think about drinking.  And then there'll be hours that last an eternity.  I don't know how it goes for everybody else from a mental and physical standpoint.  Sounds like you've got a supportive partner, that helps.  But as Bear taught me, it's not about them...it's about doing it for yourself.  My wife earned the right for all I do wrong to tell me to fuck off and clean up.  There are days where she's helpful and encouraging and other days where she's just "Do your fucking work, get your shit together."  and I finally am starting to get it after awhile.  

 If you're in Austin, PM me.  I like my meeting group, mostly guys like us.  I am in no position to be a sponsor, but ask these fellas for help and if you want to my group---would be happy to meet you up for some coffee before/after.  All that to say, hope you stay okay...I've been in a similar boat and may one day be again.  But congrats on the lucidity to see what is happening and start the long path that never ends.  

[Reagan1k 3,024]

20 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

Checking in. Unlike some heavy drinkers that show up in this forum from time to time, there's no way in hell I could stay stopped without the sober mafia of Alcoholics Anonymous.

My goodness I loved drinking. I didn't want to stop. But like a punch in the face the disease made it plain that I had to choose which I loved more, drinking or breathing.

Quitting is easy, and Harrison if you can abruptly put it down without difficulty then my hat is off to you. I always had a problem staying stopped. My brain forgets the bad stuff, and inevitably I’d start looking for excuses to escape and drink. My chemistry experiment lasted 22 years before I was ready to tap out.

Please PM me your number if you want to talk, I love talking about recovery.

Like @BearSchlong, I can’t stop once I start, and I can’t stay stopped…… without a sufficient substitute that I found in recovering. 
 

No one seemed to understand, Alcohol wasn’t a problem, it was a solution for me, but the solution had horrible consequences.  Taking medication for a cold that give me cancer - over and over.

having a different perspective and a new way to views the rules of engagement in life through the steps of AA proved to be a solution to my problems that exceeded any hope I might have had.  I just wanted to stop. It gave me far more.

If you find you can’t stay stopped without becoming miserable- restless, irritable and discontent- there is a solution. Come on in….. The door is open.  Godspeed! 

 

 

[YGIFS 19,449]

All of this.  I have very little clarity about it after to almost two years.  But couple things I’ve gleaned.  Problematic drinking is way different this solution-based drinking.  I could not see the difference for a decade.  And when your with your withdrawals are far worse than blackout drunk night; those are your checkpoints.  
 

Out of the blue my cousin’s husband called to check on me today. He’s like a big brother to me.  He’s been struggling with drinking and other health issues.  But I suppose I’ve just been apparently in an obvious rough patch lately to people.  But it reminded Me of upthread.  90% of the people you know can’t fucking wait to lecture you on what a weak asshole you are for drinking.  But there is 10% that will miraculously emerge when you need people the most to let you know you are flawed but you are not alone.  

[Macanudo 12,975]

I had a weird day.   I started a new job last week.  Lunch has either been leftovers or going out with co-workers.  Today, I didn't bring lunch, 3 of the other 4 people weren't in the office and the 4th was leaving early for the weekend.  In the old days, this would have meant going to a bar that served food and drinking for a while.  Granted, I spent the last 4 years pretty much being on my own for lunch (and 2020-2022 day drinking almost every day.)  I ended up just going to HEB to get some snack snuff for my office and then grabbing fast food.  

I didn't feel like going to a bar and didn't particularly want a drink but I was acutely aware of what used to be.   I've been sober for 2 years, 3 months and 11 days.  I wasn't hard to skip hitting a watering hole but damn if it didn't cross my mind.  

[Harrison Stafford 3,335]

I was reticent about sharing my addiction with alcohol, but confession is good for the soul and I’d read enough on this thread to know most or all of you have been where I am.   I’ve quit alcohol several times only to relapse.  However, the abuse was nothing near the descent of this most recent episode which began in mid-September of last year. I feel pretty good today and we’ll see if that trajectory continues.  Thanks to each of you who has offered help.  I know you’re there for me if I need you.   One day at a time, sweet Jesus.  One day at a time.  

[TwiceHorn 31,440]

11 minutes ago, Harrison Stafford said:

I was reticent about sharing my addiction with alcohol, but confession is good for the soul and I’d read enough on this thread to know most or all of you have been where I am.   I’ve quit alcohol several times only to relapse.  However, the abuse was nothing near the descent of this most recent episode which began in mid-September of last year. I feel pretty good today and we’ll see if that trajectory continues.  Thanks to each of you who has offered help.  I know you’re there for me if I need you.   One day at a time, sweet Jesus.  One day at a time.  

One hour, one minute, 30 seconds at a time, if need be.

[BearSchlong 8,083]

All of this.  I have very little clarity about it after to almost two years.  But couple things I’ve gleaned.  Problematic drinking is way different this solution-based drinking.  I could not see the difference for a decade.  And when your with your withdrawals are far worse than blackout drunk night; those are your checkpoints.  
 
Out of the blue my cousin’s husband called to check on me today. He’s like a big brother to me.  He’s been struggling with drinking and other health issues.  But I suppose I’ve just been apparently in an obvious rough patch lately to people.  But it reminded Me of upthread.  90% of the people you know can’t fucking wait to lecture you on what a weak asshole you are for drinking.  But there is 10% that will miraculously emerge when you need people the most to let you know you are flawed but you are not alone.  

Is that 90% a latino thing? Honest question.

I sponsor a catholic Latino (a few years back he got drunk, took the company truck out to score cocaine, ended up totalling the truck and getting a DUI - getting his company sued -and didn't get fired.) and he is very conscious of this cultural reaction. His first 2 years was me echoing “nobody gives a fuck if you don't drink, but they will if you go to prison or die in a ditch”

Like I’ve said, my dad showed up at AA in 1992 and realized his lawyer, banker, real estate partners, etc were all members and always joked that he wished he had arrived sooner.

I entered the software business 2 years ago on the counsel of a 20-year friendship - “you'd be good at this because you're sober and I know the way you think” as my only real qualifications. And its as if God granted me sobriety so I could try hard things. What a blessing.

@macanudo I haven't mentioned it, but you've been in my thoughts for years, I'm always pulling for you because you've been through the stuff that terrifies me.

[YGIFS 19,449]

On 5/25/2024 at 9:59 AM, BearSchlong said:

 

Is that 90% a latino thing? Honest question.

I sponsor a catholic Latino (a few years back he got drunk, took the company truck out to score cocaine, ended up totalling the truck and getting a DUI - getting his company sued -and didn't get fired.) and he is very conscious of this cultural reaction. His first 2 years was me echoing “nobody gives a fuck if you don't drink, but they will if you go to prison or die in a ditch”

Like I’ve said, my dad showed up at AA in 1992 and realized his lawyer, banker, real estate partners, etc were all members and always joked that he wished he had arrived sooner.

I entered the software business 2 years ago on the counsel of a 20-year friendship - “you'd be good at this because you're sober and I know the way you think” as my only real qualifications. And its as if God granted me sobriety so I could try hard things. What a blessing.

@macanudo I haven't mentioned it, but you've been in my thoughts for years, I'm always pulling for you because you've been through the stuff that terrifies me.

 

My cousin and I are Hispanic.  Her husband is literally the most Nordic cat I know.  And I grew up around a lot of Swedes in Chicago.  His DNA kit came back and he's 99% Swedish.  So no, not a Latino thing.  

But I guess he could sense I was having a rough patch and he's had some himself.  His are more medical, mine more substance based. He's in his 60's and had some heart and knee surgeries in the last couple of years.  And then he started drinking again.  And he's been very supportive of me but it was kind of these 'de tante' where I didn't talk to him much about his shit and he didn't talk to me about my shit, but we both just hugged it out and tried to help one another in other ways.  It was just crazy to me that he called me up outta the blue late last week to talk about how we gotta keep out shit together for our daughters, etc.  I think he wants to tone down his consumption, especially given his health issues and age.  It's not my place to direct him how to go about it, but I care about him very much and want to help.  He's not my level of alcoholic, but he's in the ballpark.  

So I "started to quit" about 21 months ago when I started bugging y'all for advice.  I've had a few relapses, one of 'em was pretty rough.  But today I turn 48 and hopefully it will be my first full year with no alcohol.  

 

[Clintonaldo 2,573]

I posted a few years ago about my cousin’s dad finally dying of cirrhosis and how she had a difficult childhood with both parents being raging alcoholic for a large part of her life ( her mom…my aunt has now been sober for 15 years )

Anyways, she wrote a book and I haven’t read it yet but I’ve heard good things about it and didn’t know if some of you might like it. She’s been through a lot and came out pretty good which is more than we can say for her sister.

If this is against the rules I apologize

[Celery Man 20,933]

Missed opportunity to use “Forged of a Fucked Up Fire”.

[brownboy 45]

I wish everyone the best that is struggling with this.  I was going to share my story but I'm not ready and I haven't been able to stop anyway.

I believe there are many paths to sobriety.  I am an engineer (BSEE from UT long ago) and basically an atheist so some of the popular approaches don't resonate well with me.

The Naked Mind community and book of the same name really changed my perspective on alcohol and counters a lot of the positive messaging there is about alcohol:

https://thisnakedmind.com/ (no affiliation)

I'm hoping my next pause will be permanent.  I've loved this drinking town for decades but I need to find other ways to love it.

[Celery Man 20,933]

I'll say a couple of things about the god thing - 

first off, I'm not trying to recruit people for AA and I honestly haven't gone to a meeting in a million years - I don't like the one near me (too churchy) and I have young children and there's nothing else convenient and I'd like to go but it's not a problem for me to not.

The reasons why (or at least my interpretation of the reasons why) The way that the whole god thing and higher power thing works for me is that 

1. i am not the highest power in the universe
2. i do not run the universe
3. even my own life rests in whatever fate the universe has in store for me,
   1. and this is OK

Something I've seen in criticism of AA is that in order to do AA you have to be super negative about yourself. I don't think that's the case at all, and none of the things I said above are negative, are reflective of low self esteem, are me being down about myself. Honestly if you disagree with any of the above statements except for maybe 3.1 you're an egomaniac. Most alcoholics are to some extent, and most alcoholics have a very difficult time letting things go, relaxing about things in general, and this is part of what drives us to drink. Internalizing that i do not run this shit, that for the vast majority of things that irk or worry me I should just move past them because it's not my problem or I don't have power over it - that was huge. And accepting that I really have a limited range of power over my own life and that that, too, is OK (we all live we all die, we do what we can while we're here and we wind up leaving the same way) - that's freedom.

It's also not super negative to admit powerlessness over alcohol. If you're sitting in the room refusing to admit that, your ego is still trying to run shit. It's not rational. If you had any power over alcohol you'd have exercised it by now.

[TwiceHorn 31,440]

21 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

I'll say a couple of things about the god thing - 

first off, I'm not trying to recruit people for AA and I honestly haven't gone to a meeting in a million years - I don't like the one near me (too churchy) and I have young children and there's nothing else convenient and I'd like to go but it's not a problem for me to not.

The reasons why (or at least my interpretation of the reasons why) The way that the whole god thing and higher power thing works for me is that 

1. i am not the highest power in the universe
2. i do not run the universe
3. even my own life rests in whatever fate the universe has in store for me,
   1. and this is OK

Something I've seen in criticism of AA is that in order to do AA you have to be super negative about yourself. I don't think that's the case at all, and none of the things I said above are negative, are reflective of low self esteem, are me being down about myself. Honestly if you disagree with any of the above statements except for maybe 3.1 you're an egomaniac. Most alcoholics are to some extent, and most alcoholics have a very difficult time letting things go, relaxing about things in general, and this is part of what drives us to drink. Internalizing that i do not run this shit, that for the vast majority of things that irk or worry me I should just move past them because it's not my problem or I don't have power over it - that was huge. And accepting that I really have a limited range of power over my own life and that that, too, is OK (we all live we all die, we do what we can while we're here and we wind up leaving the same way) - that's freedom.

It's also not super negative to admit powerlessness over alcohol. If you're sitting in the room refusing to admit that, your ego is still trying to run shit. It's not rational. If you had any power over alcohol you'd have exercised it by now.

Excellent statement of the issue, I think.  For a lot of us, this just slots back into whatever religious upbringing we might have had, and likely fallen away from, if the experience wasn't bad.  Others, of course, have had negative religious experiences and deliberately fell away, never to return.

The alky is at war with the universe and his or her self.  We gotta get right-sized and that's about all it is. #wDrts

Edited May 28 by TwiceHorn

[Jerry Callo 8,699]

13 hours ago, brownboy said:

I wish everyone the best that is struggling with this.  I was going to share my story but I'm not ready and I haven't been able to stop anyway.

I believe there are many paths to sobriety.  I am an engineer (BSEE from UT long ago) and basically an atheist so some of the popular approaches don't resonate well with me.

The Naked Mind community and book of the same name really changed my perspective on alcohol and counters a lot of the positive messaging there is about alcohol:

https://thisnakedmind.com/ (no affiliation)

I'm hoping my next pause will be permanent.  I've loved this drinking town for decades but I need to find other ways to love it.

If you haven't already, read through the posts on this thread.  I suspect you'll find you relate to many of the others in this thread.  

Feel free to share your story, too.  There have been many stories shared from those that were still drinking - some probably still do, but many eventually quit.

[Celery Man 20,933]

You have to have your cars inspected annually to pay a tax and get a sticker on your plate here in NC. I guess it’s not that different than Texas although the tax is more and I feel like it wasn’t annual in Texas. Anyways, today is the day. I pulled up to the inspection station - like a jiffy lube with two bays and cars line up. I got there and, out of two even lines, I picked the line that looked like the first car was almost done. A few minutes later another car arrived and pulled up next to me. And the entire time I’m waiting there’s a little gremlin in my head that is racing the other car and is very concerned about the fairness of me having arrived first and my car should get to the front of the line first. This is why I need a whole framework for letting go of things and training my mind to float with peace in the chaos of the universe.

 

how are y’all doing today?

[Reagan1k 3,024]

5 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

You have to have your cars inspected annually to pay a tax and get a sticker on your plate here in NC. I guess it’s not that different than Texas although the tax is more and I feel like it wasn’t annual in Texas. Anyways, today is the day. I pulled up to the inspection station - like a jiffy lube with two bays and cars line up. I got there and, out of two even lines, I picked the line that looked like the first car was almost done. A few minutes later another car arrived and pulled up next to me. And the entire time I’m waiting there’s a little gremlin in my head that is racing the other car and is very concerned about the fairness of me having arrived first and my car should get to the front of the line first. This is why I need a whole framework for letting go of things and training my mind to float with peace in the chaos of the universe.

 

how are y’all doing today?

Yep!  And perfectly normal to consider whether you should burn the place to the ground if the other car gets finished first, right?

Self, self, self, self, self - Oh wait....there's another way to think.  I take a breath, hear a different voice and consider that I don't know whether its good or bad if I get done first, or if it even matters to begin with.  I'm a cog in a wheel on a small rock hurtling through space.  A spec on a spec in the big picture.  Things are as they should be and fundamentally all is OK.

Practice, practice, practice - spin off, come back to center, spin off, come back to center.

Grateful I found a way to make "It" stop.

[Reagan1k 3,024]

On 5/27/2024 at 7:51 PM, brownboy said:

I wish everyone the best that is struggling with this.  I was going to share my story but I'm not ready and I haven't been able to stop anyway.

I believe there are many paths to sobriety.  I am an engineer (BSEE from UT long ago) and basically an atheist so some of the popular approaches don't resonate well with me.

The Naked Mind community and book of the same name really changed my perspective on alcohol and counters a lot of the positive messaging there is about alcohol:

https://thisnakedmind.com/ (no affiliation)

I'm hoping my next pause will be permanent.  I've loved this drinking town for decades but I need to find other ways to love it.

Whatever path works for you is the right path.  

I'll share this which has been my experience - not to try and convince you of anything, but because what you shared sounds eerily familiar with how I felt.  I'd tried everything I could think of to avoid AA and for the same reasons.

One of the first things I was told when I'd spouted off a few "yeah, but" comments was to really consider the words of a philosopher who said - There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation.

I got really hung up for a while on the god deal, which turns out was more of a hang-up with organized religion and its teachings.  I was an agnostic who thought he was an atheist.  My turning point was being told I didn't have to believe shit.  All I had to do was have a willingness to believe if it ever came to that, and just acknowledge I didn't have all the answers and am not running the universe.

I'm analytic - not an engineer but a show me kind of thinker. What I experienced was that the step process is actually almost scientific in nature.  It doesn't matter what I think will happen or even want to happen, but if I do x, y, and z, I'll get a specific result - often in spite of myself. 

Like baking a cake or a chemical reaction.......  If I follow the directions, the result is predictable and consistent regardless of how I feel, what I want, or think will happen.

Hell, I know two belligerent sons of bitches who actually tried to prove that this stuff won't really work by doing it out of spite and they too got the predictable result instead of what they wanted....which was to show everyone it was a bullshit fairy tale.

Anyway, best of luck and keep chiming in here please.  It's always encouraged and welcome!!!!!  It's how we all learn and evolve.

[brownboy 45]

3 hours ago, Reagan1k said:

Whatever path works for you is the right path.  

I'll share this which has been my experience - not to try and convince you of anything, but because what you shared sounds eerily familiar with how I felt.  I'd tried everything I could think of to avoid AA and for the same reasons.

One of the first things I was told when I'd spouted off a few "yeah, but" comments was to really consider the words of a philosopher who said - There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation.

I got really hung up for a while on the god deal, which turns out was more of a hang-up with organized religion and its teachings.  I was an agnostic who thought he was an atheist.  My turning point was being told I didn't have to believe shit.  All I had to do was have a willingness to believe if it ever came to that, and just acknowledge I didn't have all the answers and am not running the universe.

I'm analytic - not an engineer but a show me kind of thinker. What I experienced was that the step process is actually almost scientific in nature.  It doesn't matter what I think will happen or even want to happen, but if I do x, y, and z, I'll get a specific result - often in spite of myself. 

Like baking a cake or a chemical reaction.......  If I follow the directions, the result is predictable and consistent regardless of how I feel, what I want, or think will happen.

Hell, I know two belligerent sons of bitches who actually tried to prove that this stuff won't really work by doing it out of spite and they too got the predictable result instead of what they wanted....which was to show everyone it was a bullshit fairy tale.

Anyway, best of luck and keep chiming in here please.  It's always encouraged and welcome!!!!!  It's how we all learn and evolve.

Thank for sharing this perspective!  I certain don't want to ever think I have all the answers much less am running the universe!

[BearSchlong 8,083]

Thank for sharing this perspective!  I certain don't want to ever think I have all the answers much less am running the universe!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_books

I mean, its not as popular as Harry Potter, but as far as I can tell there is only one book on that list that specifically deals with alcoholism.

[hullabelew 3,723]

On 5/5/2024 at 9:10 AM, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Pretty sure that this is physically impossible, but is there any chance that a medical condition could cause one's BAC to be elevated to extreme levels without consuming alcohol? I was a BLS responder on a corporate response team for many years and witnessed Px going through diabetic ketoacidosis, but that wasn't a sustainable state (they either improved w/ treatment or continued to plummet w/ their glucose levels).

BIL  has had several bizarre experiences the past 3-4 months, including 2 hospital stays. His latest was yesterday when his wife found him stumbling into walls and speaking gibberish. She took him to the ER where they initially focused on his kidney values (he has some family history/underlying issues). His BAC was .24 after his second blood draw. His glucose was also elevated. His wife thinks he's developed type 2 diabetes (runs in his family; his younger brother died due to complications of it plus kidney disease). He's never been shy about his love of beer and bourbon, but he claims he hadn't had anything to drink on Saturday prior to his incident & hospital trip. That's almost certainly not true, but even if he did drink something is it possible his body would amplify the effects to the point that his BAC would read 3X the legal limit?

 

Colin Hay's character on The Resident had some kind of disease that turned sugar into alcohol.  No idea if it was a real problem, but most of the things in that show seemed in line.

Used to date a girl whose body processed grains differently and bread made her appear drunk.  No idea if her BAC actually went up though.  

[BearSchlong 8,083]

True for me. I'm even a brk.b shareholder now.

[pch 1,259]

11 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

True for me. I'm even a brk.b shareholder now.

Likewise, and when I think about what could have been had I parked all of that cash in brk.a, well, I never wanted to be a gazillionaire anyway.

[deadshank 24,652]

I’m not an alcoholic (for real. I don’t drink much anymore and have never had an alcohol problem). 
 

I keep up with this thread because more and more of my friends and folks I’ve grown to know are having problems they need to reckon with or are in recovery.  A few of the aforementioned are very dear to me and it’s gut wrenching  to see them in denial while the demon torments them and time is a wasting.

This thread helps me when I talk to them.

You boys stay strong and keep the faith.  I’m proud of you.  

[TwiceHorn 31,440]

One of the more important aspects of any plan of recovery or probably even good mental health is to make yourself of service to others.  Of course, ideally, that's live and in-person, but I think every little bit helps.

I think that's what we're trying to do here and it's gratifying when it seems to help people.

 

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

On 5/5/2024 at 8:10 AM, GhostOfTomJoad said:

Pretty sure that this is physically impossible, but is there any chance that a medical condition could cause one's BAC to be elevated to extreme levels without consuming alcohol? I was a BLS responder on a corporate response team for many years and witnessed Px going through diabetic ketoacidosis, but that wasn't a sustainable state (they either improved w/ treatment or continued to plummet w/ their glucose levels).

BIL  has had several bizarre experiences the past 3-4 months, including 2 hospital stays. His latest was yesterday when his wife found him stumbling into walls and speaking gibberish. She took him to the ER where they initially focused on his kidney values (he has some family history/underlying issues). His BAC was .24 after his second blood draw. His glucose was also elevated. His wife thinks he's developed type 2 diabetes (runs in his family; his younger brother died due to complications of it plus kidney disease). He's never been shy about his love of beer and bourbon, but he claims he hadn't had anything to drink on Saturday prior to his incident & hospital trip. That's almost certainly not true, but even if he did drink something is it possible his body would amplify the effects to the point that his BAC would read 3X the legal limit?

 

Very rare Auto-Brewery Syndrome caused by several risk factors, antibiotics, and yeast fungi

Quote

Her breath reeked of alcohol. She was dizzy, disoriented and weak, so much so that one day she passed out and hit her head on a kitchen counter while making lunch for her school-age children.

Yet not a drop of liquor had passed her lips, a fact that the 50-year-old Toronto woman and her husband told doctors for two years before someone actually believed her.

Spoiler

“I know of over 300 people diagnosed with auto-brewery syndrome and we have over 800 patients and caregivers in our private Facebook support group,” said Cordell, who was not involved in the new case.

“Part of the mystery of this syndrome is how these people can have these extremely high levels and still be walking around and talking.”

...

Auto-brewery syndrome, also known as gut fermentation syndrome, is an extremely rare condition in which bacteria and fungus in the gastrointestinal tract turn the carbohydrates in everyday food into ethanol. The first known case occurred in 1946 in Africa, when a 5-year-old boy’s stomach ruptured for no known reason. An autopsy found his abdomen filled with a “frothy” fluid smelling of alcohol.

...

Auto brewery syndrome occurs when certain species of bacteria and fungi overpopulate a person’s gut microbiome, basically turning the gastrointestinal tract into a still apparatus.

Scientists believe the process takes place in the small bowel and is vastly different from the normal gut fermentation in the large bowel that gives our bodies energy.

While a number of pathogens can contribute, most cases are due to an overgrowth of two species of fungi: Saccharomyces and Candida. Candida lives on the body and in the mouth, digestive tract and vagina, often taking over when more beneficial bacteria are killed off by a round or two of antibiotics.

...

There are risk factors for auto-brewery syndrome. Diabetes and liver disease can play a role as can gastrointestinal diseases such as inflammatory bowel disease and short gut syndrome, in which the small intestine is damaged or shortened, Zewude said. There may even be a genetic predisposition connected to how well a person metabolizes alcohol.

“But all of these things have to collide at the perfect time,” she said. “It requires multiple risk factors interacting and creating a metabolic storm for this syndrome to emerge in an individual.”

...

In addition to killing off the yeast, patients are expected to follow an extremely restricted low-carb diet. “No carbs would be best, but it’s almost impossible to do that,” Zewude said. Probiotics to build back beneficial bacteria can also help, she said.

...

 

 

[GhostOfTomJoad 9,323]

We've sent the DIL the links to these reports on auto-brewery syndrome. The BIL is scheduled for his next checkup in a couple weeks & this should be brought to the Dr's attention.

Saw him a couple weeks ago & he was reasonably ok for the 2 hours we were with him. I saw him drink one beer, his mood was mostly in check (it was an emotional event so he gets the benefit of the doubt). When he started to drift towards concerning behavior he voluntarily excused himself & went to his room to nap in a quiet environment. Reports since then have been more of the same: good days with occasional episodes of belligerent behavior.

[InkaUtexas 25,870]

My last beer was the day of the Eclipse. My decision, no behavior issues, just decided I have had enough and I could see it encroaching into my job and life. My social life was go to the bar, grill out with friends, etc. Went from a few beers at the river to nothing wrong with putting down a 12 pack on a Tuesday followed up by noon going to the river with another case. . I am usually done work by noon and then have to pick back up about 9PM. Got to where I was feeling quite buzzed and was not writing or thinking like I needed to be. Buddy drinks. That is what he does for fun. He is a teacher and with summer approaching I knew the life style we would get into. Wife is deployed so I do seek out social activity. The issue where I live is that means going to bars

So I stopped. Wife felt bad having a glass of wine at dinner. I told her I stopped. You don't need to. She is not a big drinker and a positive aspect of my life.

I feel better, my hobbies are back, but this thread taught me it was OK. You don't need to be one of the guys and down three shots of Jack to end the evening.

Thanks to all.

[YGIFS 19,449]

^ 

Good to hear, man.  To berate the point as I am wont to do.  My drinking was way too frequent but it was when I went into withdrawals that really woke me up to the need to stop.  Like you, I could really enjoy and holy my liquor.  I enjoyed good stuff and good times.  Got a little too tipsy a few times but was largely functioning, not violent, not loud, and not blackout.  But about 21+ months ago, the lack of it really started to hit me and it wasn't pretty.  

My wife and kids are leaving for a trip with her family on Friday for about a week.  I have to admit, I am worried again.  My sponsor is out of town as well.  I've got a buncha folks in my network to rely on.  But my main concern is I could have one night of drinks and be fine.  But it'd be hell to pay for 72 hours after that and our zoom calls would reflect that.  Anybody in Austin wanna meet up next week for coffee, please lemme know.  I could use an expanded network as folks are in and out town this time of year.  

[Celery Man 20,933]

33 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

But my main concern is I could have one night of drinks and be fine.

Edited June 3 by Celery Man

[Brisketexan 105,074]

57 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

My last beer was the day of the Eclipse. My decision, no behavior issues, just decided I have had enough and I could see it encroaching into my job and life. My social life was go to the bar, grill out with friends, etc. Went from a few beers at the river to nothing wrong with putting down a 12 pack on a Tuesday followed up by noon going to the river with another case. . I am usually done work by noon and then have to pick back up about 9PM. Got to where I was feeling quite buzzed and was not writing or thinking like I needed to be. Buddy drinks. That is what he does for fun. He is a teacher and with summer approaching I knew the life style we would get into. Wife is deployed so I do seek out social activity. The issue where I live is that means going to bars

So I stopped. Wife felt bad having a glass of wine at dinner. I told her I stopped. You don't need to. She is not a big drinker and a positive aspect of my life.

I feel better, my hobbies are back, but this thread taught me it was OK. You don't need to be one of the guys and down three shots of Jack to end the evening.

Thanks to all.

So....does this mean that you and me and the boy AREN'T meeting up at the Posse for beers when he's in town in July?   

49 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

^ 

Good to hear, man.  To berate the point as I am wont to do.  My drinking was way too frequent but it was when I went into withdrawals that really woke me up to the need to stop.  Like you, I could really enjoy and holy my liquor.  I enjoyed good stuff and good times.  Got a little too tipsy a few times but was largely functioning, not violent, not loud, and not blackout.  But about 21+ months ago, the lack of it really started to hit me and it wasn't pretty.  

My wife and kids are leaving for a trip with her family on Friday for about a week.  I have to admit, I am worried again.  My sponsor is out of town as well.  I've got a buncha folks in my network to rely on.  But my main concern is I could have one night of drinks and be fine.  But it'd be hell to pay for 72 hours after that and our zoom calls would reflect that.  Anybody in Austin wanna meet up next week for coffee, please lemme know.  I could use an expanded network as folks are in and out town this time of year.  

I'm around next Monday and Tuesday.  You and I are due for another Waffle House summit or whatnot.

[YGIFS 19,449]

I'm down to clown in waffle town.  

[InkaUtexas 25,870]

4 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

So....does this mean that you and me and the boy AREN'T meeting up at the Posse for beers when he's in town in July?   

I'm around next Monday and Tuesday.  You and I are due for another Waffle House summit or whatnot.

Yeah, we will meet up for sure! I will still get the Turkey Sheriff and tell UT war stories from my days at Simkins (Don't know what it is called now).

 

56 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

^ 

Good to hear, man.  To berate the point as I am wont to do.  My drinking was way too frequent but it was when I went into withdrawals that really woke me up to the need to stop.  Like you, I could really enjoy and holy my liquor.  I enjoyed good stuff and good times.  Got a little too tipsy a few times but was largely functioning, not violent, not loud, and not blackout.  But about 21+ months ago, the lack of it really started to hit me and it wasn't pretty.  

My wife and kids are leaving for a trip with her family on Friday for about a week.  I have to admit, I am worried again.  My sponsor is out of town as well.  I've got a buncha folks in my network to rely on.  But my main concern is I could have one night of drinks and be fine.  But it'd be hell to pay for 72 hours after that and our zoom calls would reflect that.  Anybody in Austin wanna meet up next week for coffee, please lemme know.  I could use an expanded network as folks are in and out town this time of year.  

Come on down to San Marcos. Go fishing and check out Coeds!

[YGIFS 19,449]

Yeah, I've got a few fishing excursions planned for next week.  I can't go swimming which is my usual cathartic release since my little one brought home this Impetigo thing home a couple weeks ago and I still have scabs (probably doesn't help my liver is still just starting to heal).  Been doing more walking and biking (I can't run for shit in this heat).  

It was just that about two years ago at this time, we went on a family trip to Colorado.  My wife then went on and took the girls to her family's ranch in NW Kansas.  And I went home for work via airplane.  And I went pretty excessive.  And then the withdrawals of that were my big wakeup call.  That's when y'all got stuck with me coming back to the board after I'd been gone away for awhile.  I realize history doesn't have to repeat itself, it just feels antsy.  But I have lots to do and can go to more meetings since I won't have to explain to anybody why I'm heading out of the house for no reason on some evenings.  

Obviously, it doesn't have to do with who is around and who isn't.  It's about us and our shit and working to handle it.  Just a Lobo mid-day ramble.  I've also got our annual first-generation pre-college Academy at UT which will keep me focused on service.  And thankfully, they don't serve alcohol at 17 year old functions.  Not that open bars are my problem, it's my fucking head.  

[Brisketexan 105,074]

16 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

And thankfully, they don't serve alcohol at 17 year old functions.  Not that open bars are my problem, it's my fucking head.  

So long as fucking 17 yr olds isn't your problem.....

 

[YGIFS 19,449]

I'm not Matt Gaetz.  I'm an alcoholic looking to spend my time outta my head for a week because I usually distract myself with my lovely family.  

Sickie.  

[Brisketexan 105,074]

2 minutes ago, YGIFS said:

I'm not Matt Gaetz.  I'm an alcoholic looking to spend my time outta my head for a week because I usually distract myself with my lovely family.  

Sickie.  

I know you're not Matt Gaetz.   That's why I didn't say "fucking 14 yr olds."

[Dbeasy 15,042]

Question for a friend. Are there two types of alcoholics? He understands the type where there is a gene that makes you drink and you can’t stop. 

Is there another type where they just drink for so many years, several days per week, they develop a craving they can’t stop, which eventually turns into more and more drinks per day and more days per week? He’s trying to understand his situation and isn’t ready for AA. 

[TwiceHorn 31,440]

3 hours ago, Dbeasy said:

Question for a friend. Are there two types of alcoholics? He understands the type where there is a gene that makes you drink and you can’t stop. 

Is there another type where they just drink for so many years, several days per week, they develop a craving they can’t stop, which eventually turns into more and more drinks per day and more days per week? He’s trying to understand his situation and isn’t ready for AA. 

Oh, there are probably more than two.  I am a firm believer that most alcoholism is a genetic predisposition, but I can't prove it and can't be sure.  It is fairly well established that alkies' brains react differently to intake of alcohol than normies' brains.  Whether that's in-built or the result of pickling in ethanol is less clear.

I suppose there would be variations in this genetic susceptibility from high to low disposition and I think continuing to drink heavily can push you over the edge where there is no appreciable, or any at all, difference.

The most relevant difference is between the hard drinker, who may have some difficulty stopping, but can, and the actual alcoholic, who will continue to experience cravings long past the initial abstinence date and remains at risk for catastrophic relapse for months and years without help.  The bold indicates to me that your friend is an actual alcoholic, however he got there.

The hard drinker can probably get sober by willpower alone.  The actual alcoholic probably needs AA or something quite similar.

[JohnnyRage 1,617]

I think the medical term is 'Alcohol Use Disorder', and you won't find 'alcoholic' or 'alcoholism' in the 'The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders'. As far as a gene goes, I have not heard that they have identified one gene or gene sequence that makes one an alcoholic. Some people it seems have a higher disposition to become alcoholic, but that may be the nature of person's with addictive personalities, pleasure/reward seekers if you will. Other people may abuse alcohol to treat mental or physical disorders.

Alcohol dependence is both physical and mental, worse over time and age. If your friend is suffering health and life consequences from his/her alcohol use, the sane reaction would be to take a long hiatus from drinking. I would start there, encouraging him to take a break. A visit with his primary care physician is recommended. A few good nights of hard to come by sleep is usually a sign of of being on the safe side of detox. A couple of weeks may be needed for the primary cravings to subside. I've heard it said that, medically speaking, after 6 months there are no more cravings.

For some this fork in the road becomes problematic. Self awareness of the dilemma and all that is worth holding on to, but the insanity of trying to control their drinking over and over again. Some may not be able to stop at all and needi medical intervention. Others might put in a year here or years there, but when they return they quickly rediscover that have no chill zone when it comes to their drug of choice.

 

When it comes to the Big Book, the foreward Dr.'s Opinion on xxviii states

Spoiler

We believe, and so suggested a few years ago, that the action of alcohol on these chronic alcoholics is a manifestation of an allergy; that the phenomenon of craving is limited to this class and never occurs in the average temperate drinker. These allergic types can never safely use alcohol in any form at all; and once having formed the habit and found they cannot break it, once having lost their self-confidence, their reliance upon things human, their problems pile up on them and become astonishingly difficult to solve.

 

For me it's important to think of the allergy not from a medical immune sense, but in a colloquial having a peculiar reaction.

 

The short nuts and bolts of it can be found on Ch.3 More about alcoholism pg. 30

Spoiler

The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker. The persistence of this illusion is astonishing. Many pursue it into the gates of insanity or death.

We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.

We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking. We know that no real alcoholic ever recovers control. All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals usually brief were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization. We are convinced to a man that alcoholics of our type are in the grip of a progressive illness. Over any considerable period we get worse, never better.

Bolded first sentence is a pretty simple and fundamental definition of an alcoholic. Some in the rooms will pronounce themselves "Real Alcoholic". At first it can be a little off putting, but almost all in AA is out of love and acceptance, even in the hardest of biker rooms.

Later on in the chapter 'To Wives', page 108, Bill, err I mean Bill's Wife, describes 4 types of progressive drinkers, but it's too long to copy past here. It begins with heavy and ends with completely despaired. Good news is this book and way of living works for all types. And for those that can quit drinking on their own or by other means, the program tips their hat.

 

Sorry for the slow and long winded response. Maybe it will help someone.

[YGIFS 19,449]

It's helpful.  

I oscillate between physical cravings.  Don't know how else to explain it but my body just craves it like some people crave salt, or nicotine, or sleeping in.  Other times, it's totally mental/psychological.  Body is okay but brain is just saying, "Hey, let's fast forward 6 hours so we don't have to deal with this other shit going on in here."  Sometimes it's just muscle memory, "Hey remember after a long day at work...you just bend an elbow and pound 4-6 drinks without even blinking?"  Some of it's hereditary, some of it's learned, some of it's just addictive cravings.  I think I'm a little bit of it all.  

I've noticed after being around meetings and other friends in recovery, that we really come in all stripes and variances.  But statistics bear out 10-15% of American adults, probably true for the rest of the planet as well, are clinically "alcoholics."  Not that I am in a place to judge, I'm still fucking up.  But I kinda, sorta know our different breeds now after two years of true acknowledgement.  I can see it in people, not always.  But sometimes.  And we come in different shapes and sizes, but the disease is still there and you can tell.  Still not in a place to judge, or inquire, or even help...but you sorta begin to pick up on it after awhile.  Yeah, there's the guy or gal who smells like battery acid and can't speak or walk correctly-that's easy to spot.  But so many of us can walk around in plain sight and only another fisherman can spot another fisherman from afar.  

This is certainly not my category, I'm a hereditary/mental/physical alcoholic.  But what has me intrigued is of our 10-15% fellow Americans who are clinical alcoholics, many of them never took up drinking to begin with.  Now, in many cases it's because they saw what it did to loved ones and got proactive about it.  But I've seen/met folks that are pre-wired for it that never were really around any alcohol-induced trauma.  They have the bug, but witnessed nothing related to it, just grew up and lived their lives as a casual social-drinker or even non-drinker in the same subconscious fashion some of us just drive by a liquor store on the way home before even realizing as we reach for the door handle that this is not a good idea.  There have to be hundreds of thousands of genetic alcoholics who don't even know it and never had any traumatic experiences in their personal lives.  They just somehow never went down the rabbit hole.  Obviously, that's not a model I can emulate, but I find it interesting...to say the least.  

[BearSchlong 8,083]

Question for a friend. Are there two types of alcoholics? He understands the type where there is a gene that makes you drink and you can’t stop. 
Is there another type where they just drink for so many years, several days per week, they develop a craving they can’t stop, which eventually turns into more and more drinks per day and more days per week? He’s trying to understand his situation and isn’t ready for AA. 

He is overthinking.

Try to look at it this way: Some can stop on their own without help, even after a period of difficulty if presented with a good enough reason, and those who can't stop or stay stop without spiritual help.

So, to answer his question, the two types are 1)hard drinkers and 2)alcoholics.

My belief is that DNA may play an important role, but is only one factor. Childhood modeling, etc. An interesting discussion point, sure, but secondary to the prospect of successful living without alcohol.

[TwiceHorn 31,440]

I suppose I should say that by genetic predispostion, I mean that true alkies' brains are wired differently from other peoples' brains.  So it is physiological in nature, at it's root.

And those type of things tend to derive from genetics.  Like a lot of genetic conditions, though, the precise coding has not been unlocked.

There seems to be evidence that continuous pickling of the brain in ethanol makes these brain differences worse, or more reactive and will create the changes where they didn't previously exist, at least to some degree.  I believe anyone that is a hard drinker will increase the opioid receptors in their brains, which is the driving factor in tolerance and craving.  But the alky seems to a) develop more of those receptors and b) have some other things going on that make the alcoholic phenomenon/a different for them.

[Reagan1k 3,024]

2 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

He is overthinking

Yeah-  if it’s a problem in his life and he can’t stop, stay stopped. and be reasonably happy in life…. Don’t stand around talking about how the mule got in the ditch….just work on getting him out. 

[Dbeasy 15,042]

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